danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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@caipt said:
This is a problem of game design, not balance. The current killer perk meta is by no means unfair to the survivors, but guarantees a boring experience.
It's not exactly boring. It's a race. The killer's trying to down fast so he can get use out of his gen defence, and the survivors are rushing gens so that he can't use it in time. The only time it's boring is when the killer's trying to win like this, and your teammates are borderline trolling in how they're not even trying.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806188#Comment_3806188
Read the whole post
He did. You're claiming that killers win all the time with 3 gens remaining, when I'm lucky if I win with 1 gen remaining. How are you gonna get constant gen regression from your perks unless the survivors are constantly giving you downs? The 60% kill rate is arbitrary, because kill rate in general is. It tells you nothing about the match. Your listing of perks used makes more sense than it. But why are killers still using gen defence when it's been nerfed into being garbage? Because the games are still too fast for killer to get their hooks.
Contrary to the usual use of gen defence, this is the most experimental killer meta we've ever seen. As in, killers are using a wide variety of perks, which the devs want, but the killers are doing that because everything sucks. They're desperately trying to find out what's good. Some killers are die-hard gen defence users and will never change, others like me have switched to chase/endgame builds, but even me sticking to those builds for the past like 2 years, I'm trying out gen defence again. So the current state of the game is survivor meta being the same as it was in 2017, the killer meta being in flux, and SWF still being untouched on their pedestal.
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NOED and Adrenaline.
NOED, it literally kills itself because it shows its own aura from far away.
Adrenaline, I guess people don't like it as much because it doesn't work off hook.
Oh, and Borrowed Time since survivors get it base, even though it doubling the base time now is very useful for killers who just count to 10 and hit while tunneling. Leave it to survivors to not use the tools available to them.
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I'd like to see old Pharmacy back. That standard chest speed increase and green medkit find, instead of just when you're injured, was so much better. Sure, it might make those chest searching perks stronger, but whatever.
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Realizing that SWF trumps everything makes these conversations so much easier. Every grade reset now, I make at least a little bit of an effort to push my solo MMR up (if it's working at all, idk), so that I get good teammates. Some have been really good recently, and others... getting stomped by Wraith, Pig, Myers so easily, you know.
Solos get trash teammates, killers get constant sweats (or bad survivors who get close matches via pure gen speed), and SWF gets to do whatever they want. Sometimes it costs them the win, but usually they just win anyway. "We let the whole team get slugged? That's okay, because of the Deliverance or Unbreakable we planned to bring!" Or coordinating to all stay on gens and dedicate 1 person for the last-second hook trade, which is the most efficient thing they can do against killer. And I think most SWFs just want to win, but some of them take the enormous difference in power between them and killer to be sadistic, and just stun and tbag the killer over and over. That's not "a strategy to make the killer mad," that's just being a jerk, off a power trip.
SWF not being touched is gonna be the death of this game, directly or indirectly. We've seen how effective it is to just never talk about their crazy advantage, and just let the masses of killer- and solo-mains go at each other over balance changes. One side will eventually quit en masse. If it's the survivors who do it, SWF will just fill the void and then cause all the killers to quit because they can't beat them. If killers leave first, then survivors including SWF will quit because the queues will become so long.
The easiest way to fix SWF is to give them a gen speed debuff. It's not "punishing people for playing with friends!", it's balancing the game in the name of fairness. Why should you playing with your friends, as it exists now, come at the cost of killers having unwinnable or unnecessarily sweaty matches vs SWFs who actually want to win? And I argue, if your situation is as you say, that you're "just trying to have fun with friends," why do you care so much about winning? Did you put together a SWF purely so you can win more, or you put together one of friends that like having fun together? Because it can't be both, and yet lots of people expect to have both, hence their disgust at a SWF nerf. This is not an unreasonable change, unlike the killer mains who say SWF should be banned. People should be allowed to play with friends, but I don't like that feature being an engine for unbeatable teams.
In a game with less broken stuff on the survivor side, this wouldn't be an issue. But right now the devs have a choice of fixing MMR or balancing survivors, and they're doing neither. And while I highly recommend fixing MMR so that people get put against fair opposition, that's only going to delay the inevitable, which is our current situation, that SWF with no drawbacks breaks the game. You can't simultaneously balance for casuals and competitive teams; it's as fruitless as we've seen. There's a reason you never see balancing towards casuals in other games, because it's an oxymoron.
Our playerbase is increasingly competitive. Why would you cater to casuals' every whim, when they don't even play the game efficiently, and leave competitive players in the dust? It's a similar argument I've made when buffing killers, or especially rejecting a proposed killer nerf. Old Engineer's Fang Pinhead, or "Forever" Freddy, or pre-nerf Knight weren't a problem for high level players. They'd laugh at those killers using that stuff, because it was an easy win for them. While nerfing those things wouldn't make killers perform a lot worse at low level, the same can be said about the opposite. Because low level killers aren't playing to their full potential, just like the survivors aren't, reverting the Engineer's Fang nerf, or the Freddy nerf, or the Knight nerf, wouldn't all of a sudden make those killers dominate at all levels. It would just give them a competitive edge, a fighting chance, against high level survivor teams. Taking away all of killer's slowdown and tools to cut down on chase time, doesn't mean that solo is now in a good place. You can literally see that. Because survivors haven't really had their meta changed up, haven't had a real nerf to gen time or healing, or had a SWF nerf, combine with the killer nerfs, high level killers are now having to play harder than ever for weaker results. I'll give props to some of the survivor base: they have adapted and gotten better, just like the killer players have had to adapt and git gud. But that only expands the power gap between killer and survivor, as I predicted. Meanwhile, the uncarryable solos you get matched with are still uncarryable, because in 500 hours they've learned nothing, and haven't improved at all. The experiment on balancing around that level has failed, devs.
So that's my proposition. Stop balancing around the non-strategizing, non-improving, increasingly entitled survivors, and give the top level their due. Stop looking at just the results. How hard did each side have to fight for that result? What perks are playable vs which perks are game-throwing? Did all the survivors get a worthy opponent, or did 2 of them get one, and the other 2 sunk the team because they're on a completely different level? Does SWF affect match results or does it not? You have to find these things to balance this game. Complaints? I don't have a cure-all for those. But doing this means less people feeling terminally hopeless that things will improve.
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Their current offerings are already strong.
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It 100% needs to count hitting obstacles as missing an attack, so that it can apply the cooldown reduction. It's so stupid it doesn't do that now.
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You're at your teammates mercy, or rather idiocy, because this is a team game, meaning you can't 1v1 the killer. People need to realize that you don't win as survivor by unhooking and healing all match. If the killer's gonna pressure gens, at least let him push you off of gens and give him a chase. Stop just running up to hook instantly and unhooking before the timer is halfway gone. That's just an incentive to the killer to keep coming back to hook. Strategize. You can even wait til the last second and hook trade as survivor, every hook, and still get a time positive on the killer, assuming you're also doing gens. They cry about killers being "Soooo strong!" but they literally play into their hands, and they don't even see it!
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It 100% works. I've lost many many hits to it.
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You could always run Distortion or Object, or play safe.
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@CBT137 said:
opinions on this? seems strange to me that a killer like chucky is 110% while blight is 115%
Because 110% killers are terrible. Out of our last 14 killers, 1 of them was 110%, and that was Chucky. People don't want to play that trash. They want to actually be able to catch up to survivors, not just rely on gimmicks or survivors playing bad.
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@Royval said:
Blight requires a lot of mechanical skill. You can’t just play blight for the first time and get a 4k takes time. Especially now when he doesn’t have hug tech and most maps are full of clutter.
🤯🤯🤯
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Kind of like he needs to do that to win.
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@Unequalmitten86 said:
I see a lot of arguments about slugging is justified, camping, tunneling etc. Then I see counter arguments about flashlight saves, pallet saves, and certain perks that survivors use. Now while slugging is a valid playstyle and sometimes well warranted, it doesn't need to be used every game, and that's what's happening. Before a killer even feels out who they are playing against they go for a slug or tunnel. Killers use the excuse basekit unbreakable is not valid that survivors should carry it, but why don't killers bring lightborn if your problem is flashlights,etc. Iron grasp. Now I know survivors use crappy tactics to not get the hook and they do deserve a slug, but that's 1 out of 4. I don't think killer mains realize that they need to be outnumbered. That being said there is a shortage of survivors and will continue to be if certain playstyles keep up. I am not saying stop what your doing, I'm saying stop using slugging as a crutch. Not only that there are literally so many aura perks you can probably see what they are doing while playing the game.
PS those who slug when there are only 2, survivors aren't falling for it anymore.
There's no time to feel out a team. Even if you did, you could be wrong. I've literally seen survivors do the worst 1st chase possible, and then their next chase their brain turns on and they run you for 3 gens. So you play it safe and use strategy. That's what you'd do in any game, not just DBD.
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You shouldn't have to equip challenges. They should be automatically done when you fulfill their requirements during a match. This is a part of the long grind that nobody talks about.
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I mean this is so obvious, but thanks for pointing it out to everyone else. There's been a lot of citing the kill rates to justify killer nerfs these past few years, so I guess people still don't get this. There's a clear disconnect between the stats and what you see when you play.
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I would appreciate the Huntress and Wesker games a lot more then. They're leagues more interactive than the top 3.
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I do like me some well-playing survivors. Looping without Windows, juking without fov techs, misdirection without using Iron Will. It's just rarer than I'd like.
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Killers usually don't have enough breathing room or chill time to notice such things. I see a survivor looping me forever, I just assume he's playing the game, not teaching me anything. In 8/10 matches you lose, there's a tbaggers, so with behavior that common you usually can't give the benefit of playing nice. I don't have the heart to spare survivors, because it was broken long ago. No amount of encouragement or good will is gonna bring that initial joy back. That's just me.
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@ppmd said:
Punishing survivors who are already upset won't fix the base issue.
Well let them be upset. Let them drop the game and never return for all I care. You cannot appease these people. They will always find something to rage quit over.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
Because it's not actually a good perk, all it does is serve to annoy the Killer, and most KIllers have adapted to work around it by running other perks. :/
It annoys killers but it also wastes time. And for what? Survivors doing gens? This may not be the strongest survivor perk, but it is free and it wastes killer's time. He either has to take the stun and then kick it again, or just decide not to kick gens for the rest of the match, which is huge either way. So even the most joked about survivor perk (even though it shouldn't be) is still viable against any killer.
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@Shinkiro said:
There are no problems with any killer, just problems with people attitudes
Exactly. "Don't like this killah! Rage quit!" It's infantile.
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What is y'all's deal with these killers? With Skull Merchant, I can at least see where you're coming from. But what's wrong with Knight? He chases you, or his guard chases you and you grab the banner. What's so difficult about him? I think you've bought into the whole "multiple killers at once" idea, when he's really not that. He's more like 2 halfs of a killer in 1. So I don't see the bad design, except in that he doesn't have the tools he needs to get survivors. Not anymore.
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@Hannacia said:
Most spirit mains do destroy their ears with 100% volume yes. Me included. I do have very decent headphones too that let me hear the breathing sounds more clearly. Some survivors make more breathings sounds than some. Some are annoyingly quiet and phasing against them is a pain.
Theres a lot of audio issues right now so playing spirit is not fun..at least not for me .
So your headphones let you hear extra? Or what are you saying? Because if survivors just aren't making sound, I don't think turning up the volume is gonna change that.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803909#Comment_3803909
I am sorry Ser Lightborn I just think killers I dislike should be rendered unviable.
At least you're not hiding your bias.
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@[Deleted User] said:
No but Rat Poison needs to go.
Why? Because "killers seeing aura is OP!"?
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@SkeletonDance said:
The problem with SM was that she took no skill to use. It was just using M2 to place a drone and that's it. Chucky on other hand needs to work for a downs
So I can just pick her up and start 4k'ing every game?
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@ChaosWam said:
Oh good now we're asking for certain killers to be gutted to SM degrees…
The devs enable this.
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He already got it! What more do you want him to lose?
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Nobody. Sometimes killers just get nerfed for no reason.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I just know Zanshin is gonna go crazy on Pyramid Head lol
Unless the survivor is running in a straight line, aura doesn't mean Pyramid can simply see and hit them through walls. They can always dodge at the last second and negate your play.
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Even when it's their teammates selling them out, they somehow find a way to blame it on the killer.
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Bruh.
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@Gplays2000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802130#Comment_3802130
Shouldn't killers get punished for leaving one of the players in an uninteractive state for literally over a minute? Idk about you but IMO they should get punished… Staying on the ground for over 60 seconds and basically being forced to bring a perk for this situation is truly misery in itself and should not happen. The solution is called pick someone up before 60 seconds…they literally get a whole minute? If they don't want to that person gets to pick himself up and continue playing the game….
See, what you're doing now is putting survivor feelings over all other logic, and are arguing that a survivor team so bad that they can't even get their teammate off the ground are not to blame, no somehow it's the killer who's to blame. Always. Unless the killer is literally standing on the survivor, their teammates should be able to pick them up. If you start arguing that survivors should just pick themselves up after an arbitrary amount of time, not only would that be an unneeded survivor buff of unprecedented proportions (because their teammates will never have to pick them up again), but people will then start to argue, "It should be 45 seconds. No, 30. No, 15." That's the floodgates you'd open.
Why is this logic never applied to killer. I guarantee you there are plenty of situations where the killer can't do anything either. We just say that, "No, he can do something " because he's able to move his character and use his power. But that doesn't actually equate to being able to get the survivors. Yes, eventually you'll get any survivor, but at what cost? 45 seconds of your time? 60? 2 minutes? Longer periods of time than these survivors are supposedly being left on the ground. And all that wasted time basically goes towards... nothing. The killer sacrificed a hook, maybe a regression perk, or a hook trade for that slug. The rest of the survivors will still capable of looping and doing gens, resulting in a net negative for killer. The go-to "pressure" strategy nowadays is still a net negative for killer.
So a survivor having to be on the ground is not the end of the world. Either the team will lose then and there, or they'll get picked up and carry on. Where's the "misery" in that? Total exaggeration.
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@Kerlmano said:
The nerfs to Hillbilly I understand but Twins, Unknown and Skull Merchant? Absolutely not. Who are you going to nerf next? Plague and Pinhead? No. Just no.
Survivors complain about facing the same killers then you should thank behaviour for nerfing the bad killers.
I don't "understand" even Hillbilly getting nerfed. How often do you see him, really? And they absolutely would nerf those other killers. Any killer that can do anything vs survivors, they nerf. That contributes to the imbalance at the top end, which is why up there, any killer that's not Nurse or Blight can play exceptionally well and get nothing for it. Survivors will never criticize BHVR for nerfing killers. They only criticize the devs when they finally throw us a bone and give a minor buff to 1, 2, maybe 3 killers. Otherwise, they slander the devs as killer mains. Right...
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802043#Comment_3802043
I find it funny Killer mains always say a killer is "weak" just based on their personal feeling. In an assymetrical game like this the only way to tell if a character is strong or weak is how they actually perform in game.
That's a lie. That's actually what survivors do. We call killers weak because they are, because we've played many many matches with them. We've seen firsthand how they perform, not just secondhand. So we don't say anything funny.
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@Paternalpark said:
Plague is really strong wdym?
How is she strong? With a pink add-on she's strong? With bad players constantly cleansing against her she's strong? How is she strong?
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You don't have a problem with the nerfs because you don't play enough killer to see he doesn't need it.
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You're complaining about nothing. There's nothing wrong with survivor.
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@ObsidianButterfly said:
Kill rate means absolutely nothing and does not show how strong a killer is. Case and point: Nurse and Blight have the lowest numbers, but are the strongest in the game.
Merchant only had a 70% because survivors kept going AFK or run into her on purpose to suicide on hook, which massively inflated the number higher than it should be.
I'm surprised this isn't common sense.
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@Linkdouken said:
Think of it as a good thing, if they are all wasting too much time with altruism then they aren't on gens.
Your mistake is thinking they can't do both. 1 person gets an uncounterable flashbang save, the other 2 are on gens. It's simple.
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Rosie199X has proposed that your first pick-up of the match as killer should be uninterruptible. I think it's a good idea. Being robbed of your first down is just too damaging to come back from.
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Because they don't like having to use strategy or work as a team to beat the killer. You can beat Hag without doing that, but that's good survivors. Bad survivors will just run into areas where she's clearly trapped over and over, and gift a free win to the killer.
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@Nazzzak said:
The better players should always win. That's how games should work. If one side steam rolls the other however then it's more evidence that the matchmaking system isn't working. I've had countless games end at 4k with 0 gens done. On the flipside, I've had games where all gens get done and the killer has only 1 or 2 hooks. Both are a failure of matchmaking.
Finally someone sees it. A killer does not win at 5 gens unless he's facing survivors way below his level. That's a complete mismatch due to BHVR's botched MMR. I don't agree with the second part though. Good killers have gotten 2-3 hooks vs good survivors all the time. The number of those matches that have been happening to me have been increasing, and I know I'm not getting worse. In those cases, matchmaking is actually working, but that turns out to be a bad thing because the game isn't balanced for good survivors and killers to face one another. When that happens, survivors win 9/10 times. How are you going to get quick enough downs, to power your gen defence or chase build or whatever, against survivors who know how to play every time using check spots, the teleport backwards exploit at pallets, never fail flashbangs saves, and everything else? You can't. You just have tunnel, hope for no counter perks to that, and use Rancor for your second kill at the very end. That's been my solution; other's will not be so different.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
Where is the match so we can see it please? Not much discussion to be had on this topic from a picture alone.
While I agree, you can kind of see what's happened. The killer got 2 hooks, and he's Demogorgon who is probably one of the better killers for brute forcing The Game and its many god pallets, and the survivors haven't even had to use their medkits yet. There's no way the killer can secure even 1 kill. They can screw up the save and accidentally hook trade like 6 more times, and will still be able to get the free endgame save with body blocks for the 4-man out. I think against this team, any killer would have the same result, except for Nurse.
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@Lost_Boy said:
Killers stand no chance to get even 1k playing against skilled survivors is just 😂
Do you not realise how ridiculous that statement is and how badly it reflects in your personal skill level? You can literally go and watch any of the numerous content creators that make videos for this game and watch them consistently beat skilled survivors and 4 man SWFs. You can even watch them doing it live on stream so how does a screenshot from a random game in Asia prove this theory of yours?
At this stage gauging by your other comments in similar related topics about survivors being OP it just sounds like you're angry at the game because of your own personal experience losing against SWFs & you want people to agree with you because you think the game is at fault.
It reflects that he knows what he's talking about. The content creators who you're referring to use smoke and mirrors, and balloons (because it's 1 big circus), to display how 'good' they are. It's true that you measure your skill as killer by what caliber of survivors you can beat, but all I ever see these creators face is people who lose to like Wraith, Freddy, Pig, Ghost Face, while using meme builds. They might have a streamer mode or smurf or something to make them only face bad players, because their survivors simply aren't competent. They can't even run shack or a long walk jungle gym, they lose on The Game, they refuse to bring in items for some reason, etc.
Believe it or not, it is the game's fault a lot of killers lose. Loops and maps like I've mentioned above exist, which an M1 almost can't physically get you at, and other killers still have massive counterplay there. Gen defence is dead, so every match is a race against time sweat fest. And SWF has remained completely untouched through all the "survivor nerfs," so facing them usually results in an instant loss. I used to be able to beat SWF. Then they got better, or I just stopped facing the bad ones. But mostly it's because killer is the weakest it's ever been. We have a non-meta where anything and everything goes because nothing is good. Using 4 basic (free) perks is now about as good 4 "pay-to-win" perks (because they've all been nerfed).
There are unwinnable matches as killer, they're not as rare as most believe, they happen to the top killers as well as low tier killers, experienced killers as well as noobs. And you would realize all this if you played killer more than once a day, and didn't give a free escape or two every time.
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Fear of the Dark.
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How much more counterplay do you want against her? She only has the most in the game, bar Wraith and Singularity.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800702#Comment_3800702
They understand that. But their solution to the problem is to punish survivors rather than admit she is a poorly designed addition to the game
I don't see that at all. They're punishing survivors by nerfing her twice? And she's only "badly designed" in that teams of 2 noobs and 2 good players can't beat her, because the noobs don't use strategy or game awareness and will just die or give a free 3-gen. So if being able to beat bad survivors is bad design, piggybacking off of BHVR's MMR being terrible for solo, then sure.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800707#Comment_3800707
No, this makes too much sense. It's more likely that people are coming home from their 9-5, spending time with their families, and then in the hour or two they have for gaming, they hop on DbD with the sole intent to quit matches in order to get a killer nerfed.
You've got the demographics wrong, but that is absolutely what these people do.
I message them every now and then, "Why'd you instantly give up? You screwed over the whole team."
"Shuddup! I do what I want! (angry gargling noises)." Can't give any response which utilizes any logic or coherent thought.
Whatever it takes to get a killer nerfed, which makes their low skill matches easier, that's what they'll do. Asking them to improve or self-reflect offends them, which activates BHVR's "killing with kindness" maternal instincts towards them. The devs protect them and justify their actions no matter what.