crogers271
crogers271
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569672#Comment_3569672
If this is implemented, it absolutely should be an on/off button, so that we aren't adding another uncompensated survivor buff to the game.
No. It would absolutely not be cool for killers to need to deal with thunder and lightning, that will make it even more obnoxious to see and hear survivors. That would not be fun, and it's a terrible idea that should never happen as a mandatory feature that killers are forced to suffer through.
That would not be fun, and it's a terrible idea that should never happen as a mandatory feature that killers are forced to suffer through.The point is, that's why it won't happen. Devs aren't going to put a lot of time into a feature that a lot of the player base might turn off. The merit of the idea, outside of a purely hypothetical discussion, isn't relevant because it just won't happen if it has an on/off feature.
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Is it a violation? Pretty sure, but its really hard to prove. I don't think the game actually records a lot of meta data (example, how frequently a survivor touches a gen). So the survivors can just say they were trying really hard to finish a gen while remaining stealthy.
It's also an issue because devs have said playing for hatch is valid, but there is no clear line on where the dividing line is. 25 minutes is probably clearly over the line, but I can't say for sure were the devs would actually say.
@gnehehe said:
EGC should start after 15 min, leading to the end of a round after about 17-19min mark
Nothing more annoying than a loooong DbD game
I think the problem with this, without some type of modification to EGC, is that if the time is too low players will just hide for that mark. Happened all the time in Deathgarden, if the scavs (survivors of that game), had a bad start, players would just hide until the enforced end game event happened.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568986#Comment_3568986
Could simply be a on/off button. It doesn't have to be any crazy lightning that hits the map, maybe off in the distance or something.
Could simply be a on/off button.I think people underestimate what it probably feels like to a developer to consider all of the time investment they'll need to put into an idea, only to be told that many people will just turn it off.
If it would go in, it would have to work for everyone. If we're just talking hypothetically, wouldn't it be cool if, then yeah, most people would probably take it.
To be that one guy though who pokes a hole in the idea: if you care deeply about balance, it would be an issue. A dark map would be a boon to killer's like Ghostface who need to hide, while probably hurting chase killers by making it harder for them to locate survivors.
Which now that I've typed the sentence, I'm all for the idea.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569560#Comment_3569560
Go nuts and enjoy the hundreds of pages of poor optimization.
It's only a mere 82 pages! Works great!
😋
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569508#Comment_3569508
It IS a 90 sec gen with extra steps. I mean.. what else? This is not ment to reinvent the wheel, its ment to add an extra layer which adds strategy for both sides plus a longer game time without busting the original game and beeing boring as hell sitting more on gens. If this is not interesting, then i am sorry that the core game sucks for you.
More pallets =/= loads of pallets. Many maps come with 9-10 pallets, and of those 9-10 pallets, 3-5 are complelty unsafe. I did a lot of testing and i know the pallet counts of those maps. Adding more unsafe pallets does nothing to the game. Unsafe pallets have absolutly nothing to do with skill or fun. Its rather who wins 50/50 or has good ping. I dont want to start the discussion on that, but mindgames also have not a lot to do with skill, at least after you played the game a long time.
This is not ment to reinvent the wheel, its ment to add an extra layer which adds strategy for both sides plus a longer game time without busting the original game and beeing boring as hell sitting more on gens.I don't think most people want a longer game. I don't, maybe I'm projecting, but I think around 10 minutes is the ideal time, on the under side. I want to feel like I'm in a rush. Strategy games are great, but I got lots of those, DbD is the best game at getting the heart pumping.
From a practical stand point, lengthening the game also creates balance issues. Even if you add a ton of pallets, you'll still have instances whether due to skill imbalance or just luck a survivor gets eliminated early. Now that there are more layers it makes the chance of 3 survivors pulling it off even less likely. Games were people feel like they are stuck in them create dissatisfaction which isn't what people should be going for.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/394982/tunneling
Alright, so lets do some math here.
- Match starts and the killer has Lethal and picks a survivor and decides to hard tunnel them immediately.
- Survivors often spawn on the opposite end of the map as the killer and generally somewhat spread out to take at least 1-2 gens immediately with the 3rd taking a few seconds.
- Average map size is 100x100 square meters, so in order to cross the other end of the map, assuming killer spawns around 16 meters into the map, and objectives spawn around 16 meters into the map, it will take the killer 14.8 seconds to reach the survivors.
- Around 32 meters in the survivors should start hearing the terror radius and should be able to start reacting to them
- Let's assume you have terrible reaction time, and don't start running away for about 3 seconds, meaning the killer is now 22.2 meters away from you.
- Lets assume you are really bad at the game, and don't use any pallets or windows, but just shift +w away
- The killer gains 0.6 meters of distance and needs to get within 3.61 meters to do a lunge at max range.
- It takes the killer 30.9 seconds to hit you.
- You get as peed boost, giving you a distance of 14.4 meters.
- The killer takes 18 seconds to catch up and hit you again
- The killer is in hit animation for 2.7 seconds
- The killer picks you up for 3 second animation
- The killer walks to a hook taking ~10 seconds
- The killer hooks you taking 1.5 seconds for animation
Now, you have been hooked 1 time, and the total match time as been:
14.8 + 30.9 + 18 + 2.7 + 3 + 10 + 1.5 = 80.9 seconds.
Even if the killer stood right on the hook, and you used AFC to unhook yourself, and let the killer hit you twice without moving, and then hooking you again. It would still take another:
7 + 15 + 2.7 + 2.7 + 3 + 1.5 = 31.9 seconds per hook.
How exactly are you "getting tunneled out in 2 minutes with 5 gens remaining? What are you doing to go down so fast? What is your team doing such that after 2 minutes of the killer completely ignoring them they haven't completed at least 3 generators?
While the OP sounds grossly exaggerated, their are two flaws in your math reasoning for the setup.
Around 32 meters in the survivors should start hearing the terror radius and should be able to start reacting to themLet's assume you have terrible reaction time, and don't start running away for about 3 seconds, meaning the killer is now 22.2 meters away from you
This presumes the survivor recognizes the direction the killer is coming from and realizes the killer is coming for them. As a killer I'll usually get a lot closer than 22 meters before the survivors start to run.
Lets assume you are really bad at the game, and don't use any pallets or windows, but just shift +w away
This gets brought up a lot, but it's not true.
Killers don't hug the walls of the map, they control the center (barring a map like Midwich). Which means as the killer approaches the survivors choice is not just run into an infinite field, but to choose a direction. They obviously shouldn't run toward the killer, and likely running in the exact opposite direction of the killer will quickly lead to a wall, so they have to choose right or left. This should give the killer an angle, radically shortening the time it takes to catch them.
Also, if the survivor isn't looping at all, all of those things that loopers use suddenly becomes hindrances to the shift + w as a pure strategy.
Finally, most killers have some type of power that applies in a chase. A ranged attack, a potential stealth exposure, a speed option/slow down survivor option, etc. This means they don't have to always do the just m1 chase.
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I'm going to focus on the radical idea, maps and killers just kind of distract from that.
Default gen time:120 seconds2nd Object:4 more or less randomly placed control cabinets. The survivors can see the auras of those cabinets in white color. Every survivor can see the aura of other survivors who are within 5 meter radius around control cabinets. Survivors activate control cabinets by solving a mini game.Every activated cabinet reduces gen repair time by 8 seconds across all generators.Of all the ideas I've ever heard for 'survivors should have a secondary objective', this one isn't bad.
Problem is, given the math here doing the cabinets is not really optional, but more of a mandatory thing. Thus instead of the survivors having different options on what to do, they now first have to do the cabinets, then the gens.
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How does dbd matchmaking work?As survivor, if you escape you gain MMR (a hidden number where the game ranks you), if you die you lose MMR. This number is then modified by the overall performance of the team (if you die, but three survivors escape, less MMR loss) and the difference between your MMR and the killer (ex: if the killer has a high MMR and beats you, you lose very little MMR).
Killer is the other side of this, gain MMR for kills, lose MMR for escapes, with 2 escapes / 2 kills being a draw (hatch is counted as a null value, so if one of those escapes was hatch it would be 2 killers / 1 escape on the MMR). Killer MMR is tracked per each killer, though there is likely some kind of overall killer MMR per play.
When you look for a match the system tries to match you with other survivors/killers of roughly the same level in your region. The longer it takes to find a match though, the more it broadens the search.
Then if someone leaves the lobby the system feels like even more of a crapshoot for who ends up replacing that person.
There may be more to it, but that's all I've seen them post about on the forums.
So how did you end up hitting a 5,000 hour player? Well in addition to those ideas mentioned above (backfills, needing to expand to find players), there are 3 other possibilities. Just because someone has a ton of hours in the game doesn't necessarily mean they are great at it. Second possibility, you mention you are playing with a friend, if you are frequently in a SWF you have leg up over a lot of players, which is really going to boost your MMR.
It's also possible the player you hit is a survivor main and/or that isn't their main killer, so that killer's MMR is not as high as player's skill level may be.
So there's a lot of reasons this could happen.
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@SirCracken said:
It depends on a lot of things. The most important factor is definitely player skill on both sides.
An experienced killer could likely win against new survivors as Trickster without using his power or tunnelling or camping. The same is obviously not true against an experienced, coordinated SWF. Especially on a map like RPD where simply holding W is an easy way to waste the killer's time. And thus heavily punishes the killer for not camping.
But speaking from my own experience playing killer, I can usually get away with not camping or tunnelling in most games since random survivors tend to be really bad.
However, a more prudent argument I would like to make is that whether or not you can win a game as killer without camping or tunnelling is Irrelevant. Since even if you could win without doing either of them, you could definitely win faster and more efficiently if you did. Which is an undisputable fact about DbD that has always remained true.
And I think that is what people should be talking about instead: why has the most efficient way to play killer remain effectively unchanged for over 7 years when it often leads to boring games?
And I think that is what people should be talking about instead: why has the most efficient way to play killer remain effectively unchanged for over 7 years when it often leads to boring games?Because its an elimination game. Reducing a team's strength by 25% is always going to be a huge gain. The question is how much work the killer has to do to get it.
Most ways to combat this would just lead to even bigger problems. Examples: you could be to give a boost to the 3 survivors when one is eliminated, however, that takes away the incentive for survivors to actually try and save their teammates, which should be something the game stresses. You could make the penalty only apply if the killer hooks the same player three times in a row, but then that just leads to SWFs using the tunneled played as a body blocker. You could do some sort of team hook state, but that would probably make it way too hard for killers to mount a comeback at the end of the game.
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@DemonDaddy said:
If we ever get this, I think it should be base kit charaters with no perks and entirely solo. Let the ranks be purely based off of individual peformance without wild factors like addons, perks, or comms.
What guidelines do you think would provide the most fair assessment of individual play for a leaderboard?
If we ever get this, I think it should be base kit charaters with no perksThat would be pretty boring, which leads me to this comment later on
If the game doesnt function at base level to the point that any ranking is absurd, then thats just highlighting glaring issues that should have been addressed and not glossed over with a bandaid fix.The appeal of DbD is in the variety. Every match is different and unique. Very few games manage a life span like DbD and it is in large part do to that variety.
Also, to call playing 'perkless' a base game isn't really accurate. Outside of maybe the first game ever played, players have perks. The game is balanced around the idea that people will run perks. That's the base game, playing perkless would actually be playing outside what the game is intending.
and entirely solo.While I'd love a way to enforce solo, its not really possible. Before SWF, players in the same region could just hit find match at the same time. If you were willing to lobby dodge a few times you can circumvent this. If you had a ranked mode where players knew where they were ranked, it would be even easier to pair up.
You could combat this with penalties on lobby dodging, forced hiding of teammates, etc. but that's a lot of time to try and prevent people from playing the game.
Also, most of the people who want a ranked mode seem to want it as a place to shuffle SWFs off to.
Let the ranks be purely based off of individual peformance without wild factors like addons, perks, or comms.Perk and addon choice are a component of individual performance. I say that as someone who absolutely loathes the way addons work in the game.
But you also can't hack in an 'individual performance' metric into a game like this. Sitting on gens is easy, but its essential to the game, and if someone else is running the killer really well there's no reason for another survivor to jump in and steal chase.
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@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568619#Comment_3568619
Yes, I know what they said, and I know what someone being needlessly pedantic and hyper-focusing on one word to discredit the rest of the argument looks like. It looks like you.
This isn't a fair take. The OP not only uses must in the title, he uses it in the post as well creating the impression that not tunneling isn't viable.
OP quotes:
In short: Tunneling in the current gameplay paste is a must-have tactic for some killer roaster to have a chance for at least 2-3k.So if developers announce something like "Anti-tunneling" mechanic, be prepared for a huge nerf to survivors main objective - Gens, or a huge buffs to killers.Either gens be much longer to repair, or killers will get some strong perks such as Deadlock or Corrupt, or maybe even Pain rez as basekit.OP's post is quite clear that tunneling is a must have tactic without substantial changes. You're avoiding the points @ratcoffee is making by pretending that he is arguing that instead of something being 100% true its only 99% true. He's pointing out not only is not a must, its not even close.
And if we're going to argue that the evidence from Hens should be thrown out because of the 1000s of hours, okay, but then let's also talk about the level of survivors killers actually face.
I find the whole thread a problem because no one has defined tunneling, which people talk about in different ways. I do think the concept is backwards though, because the better the survivors are, the easier a time they'll have dealing with tunneling (such as by waiting to do unhooks, body blocking, staying on gens, resetting in deadzones).
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@SweetLikeDonut said:
So we can all agree that cenobite has a lot of pressure, right? I want to maximize that. I dont care if its a good or bad build, I just want to build up pressure and control the game as much as possible. I want a build that irritates survivors and can pressure them to the point of making mistakes they usually dont make.
No, I do not aim for a toxic build, I aim for builds that best suit their respective killers.
And here comes my question: which killer perk pressures you the most?
I am not asking for your most hated killer perk, I am not asking for the perk that annoys you the most, I am simply talking about pressure.
Thanks in advance and have a good one.
I want a build that irritates survivors and can pressure them to the point of making mistakes they usually dont make.This really depends on the level of survivors you are facing.
For example: Merciless Storm is a great slowdown perk against less experienced survivors, but it rarely works once survivors get used to the skill checks.
Plaything/Penti fall in here as well, many experienced survivors will just ignore the hex entirely, but it can bring less experienced survivors to an absolute standstill.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566752#Comment_3566752
I don't think it is a good band aid, besides the before mentioned points it somewhat prevents skill development, because the killer can basically be stubborn about something that is not supposed to work and it somewhat works out...
I was more thinking about in fights, my example would have been sc2, sure games like civ or total war have long campaigns, but the battles themselves don't have such a mechanic do they? It can make sense to have a such a thing when the game lasts several hours like a campaign, but not when it is only one fight like in rts... And even in total war, only played medieval 2, the fights themselves don't have such a thing, if you get steamrolled your moral goes to hell and you do even worse or your commander dies and so on...
I was more thinking about in fights, my example would have been sc2There are 3 differences between RTS games like Starcraft and DbD in this context.
1: Most RTS are generally decided by one big event (a battle, base attack, etc.). Skirmishes/intel gathering during the game are meant to sway the odds when the big battle comes. DbD doesn't have one big event, instead it has lots of chases over the course of the game. The killer winning the chase doesn't win them the game, they have to win quite a few.
2: DbD is asymmetrical as a 4 v 1. The killer has to be stronger than survivor in chase to differentiate between the team sizes. How much stronger is a balance issue. Instead of bloodlust maybe they could increase the base killer speed to compensate, but I think that would be way too powerful.
3: As the game progresses things tilt in the killers favor. Pallets are lost, fewer gens to defend, items disappear, etc. Bloostlust and windows blocking are a similar concept that reflect killers getting more powerful as things progress. It both works as a gameplay mechanism, creating situations were the killer has to decide between breaking a pallet or running around it, a balance issue, as well as being thematically appropriate, the longer a chase goes in a horror movie the stronger the killer tends to become.
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@puncher said:
Many of the DLC chapters are 50% off on PlayStation Store. Why not Steam yet? I prefer to buy licensed chapters as a whole instead of using Auric Cells. Any update?
Probably because the Steam Halloween sale hasn't started yet.
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I've always been surprised by the argument that people dislike bloodlust. Seems such a necessary component of the game. It might be a band aid, but its a really good band aid. Many killers would need to be overhauled without it and I think maps would be so sanitized for balance sake that they'd lose their uniqueness.
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565512#Comment_3565512
If the survivors are good enough it does not really matter how unfair the killer plays, the question is just who plays better. How would you even know that you are getting an easier lobby? Are you checking steam profiles and hoping the game hours mean something? Because the Prestige does not mean anything.
I don't think you can also have a win without getting 3 kills, but thats a different topic. I mean fair, if someone is completely outmatches you to the point and there is no way you can win, obviously you don't want to continue the useless struggle. But that's only fair if the other side is that much better than you? Why should you get a second chance know to make up for your inferior skill?
Imagine that thing in a strategy game, where you are loosing so hard that suddenly your units get a buff or something, that would be ridiculous, so why exactly are we discussing something like this?
It is not really a comeback for killers though when they get stronger the more pallets are broken and the less gens there are to protect, because that would mean they were behind at some point, which they don't necessarily were, it is just how the game goes... Also the point is that bloodlust is a dumb mechanic and should be removed, I could compromise on only removing t2 and t3 bloodlust, but overall I think it would be better without it...
Yeah sure, but why should you get a buff now? At this point you are arguing more for a surrender button when the game is unwinnable, than for a mechanic that gives you a comeback. Because the point is if the killer has put you in a spot where you think you cannot win the game anymore, therefore he has outclassed you, proven to be the better player and whatnot, why exactly do you want to make it harder for him now? He already earned his win...
Imagine that thing in a strategy game, where you are loosing so hard that suddenly your units get a buff or something, that would be ridiculous, so why exactly are we discussing something like this?This does exist in strategy games. In Civ or Total War getting out to a huge early lead is offset by some other mechanic (i.e. happiness) meant to prevent a steamroll.
But also, DbD isn't a strategy games, its an asymmetrical online PVP. Everything about the game is arbitrary - the killer is outnumbered, but moves faster than the survivor, but survivors can vault faster, have pallets to play, and 3rd person view. Bloodlust is just as fair an element as the higher movement speed or that pallets don't replenish.
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I'm glad others have mentioned not successfully completing a gen kick process, because I did that a lot.
It took me a while to learn that crouching also made you quieter, not just harder to see.
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@MikeStev said:
please stop being competitive its just an halloween event that last for few weeks
I'll take an unbalanced fun event to shake things up, but that doesn't mean people should shouldn't talk about how it could be a balanced fun event.
My issue with the balance discussion is it usually takes weeks to get an idea on the balance of gameplay elements for certain, by that point the event will be over.
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565060#Comment_3565060
Cognitive dissonance. Many more Survivor mains here, not even close tbh. They will likely upvote a pro-Survivor argument if it meets their preconceived notions, no matter how rudimentary, baseless, or thoughtless the argument may be. Given the fact this is an asymmetrical game, the issue is compounded.
Just like how one could go to see their favorite sports team. Every successful play is because their team is good. Every misstep is the refs fault or bogus rules.
Anyway, this thread has proven my point for these forums. Most posts here can be distilled to the following.
Survivor struggles = poor balancing
Killer struggles = skill issue
Cognitive dissonance.Just like how one could go to see their favorite sports team. Every successful play is because their team is good. Every misstep is the refs fault or bogus rules.How is it that you are so certain you are not the one suffering from cognitive dissonance?
Anyway, this thread has proven my point for these forums. Most posts here can be distilled to the following.Survivor struggles = poor balancingKiller struggles = skill issueBefore your reply here there were 16 posts that gave you the "proof" you needed.
If we're going to discuss cognitive dissonance we need to discuss how 16 posts, some of which agree with you and many of which weren't really related, were all you needed for 'proof'.
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I'd rather a rework Go ahead and buff her base speed but make her blink either have some time of limit or be much slower to charge. Have it so she plays under the normal game rules with a teleport she can break out on occasion.
One of the problems with Nurse is that there are lots of ideas for perks that need to get thrown out because 'Nurse could just use this to massacre survivors'.
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@Kius said:
How come ultimate weapon gets instantly targetted at because it's an info perk that does "too much" but windows that literally gives you a mini wall hack without even doing anything is considered "fine"?
Crazy.. isn't it?
Not really crazy. Windows shows you static things on the map, ultimate shows you things that move around. If you know the maps well windows doesn't do much. The idea of making windows a flash though would mean it would still have the same level of power, but only for people with good memories.
On the other hand, ultimate gives you info that you wouldn't have unless you had the perk. Which by itself is fine, that's what perks are for, but the way it functions is currently too strong.
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@RaSavage42 said:
What would you change, or add to the game
Perks:
Maps:
Killers:
Killer powers:
Killer addons:
Items:
Item addons:
Mechanics:
Base Game:
FYI... I add in mine after some others chime in
I was wondering whether to interpret this as things that could be made in a patch, or if I was totally rebuilding the game. I've got a mix of both.
Perks: Before the anti-face camp mechanic, I would have switched Reassurance/Kinship to require the survivor to be within the range for 3 seconds standing/crouching still, but at that point the survivor on the hook gets a charge of deliverance (that can work on 2nd hook) that is communicated to all other survivors via the HUD.
Now, I'd probably redesign ultimate weapon. Either make it only have the scream effect or make it have a significantly longer cooldown or make distortion work against it.
If I was rebuilding the game: two perks teachable per survivor and killer, combine weaker perks to make them useful, but generally reduce the mass number of perks in the game.
Maps: I'm cool with the maps.
Killers: Chess merchant is dead, give it a few months for that monstrosity to fade from my mind before I think about changing killers around.
Killer powers: Buff slinger's gun.
Killer addons: Radical change: all addons should have a pro and con. Example is things like Pig's Iris, lose two traps, gain an aura read. Addons should not be a difficulty slider where you can impact the game difficulty just based on whether you've accumulated enough Iris that you don't mind wasting them.
Items: Each survivor starts with an item, no survivor starts with the same item. The way I'd have this work is instead of choosing the item to begin the game with, you'd choose the preference order (example: toolbox, medkit, map, flashlight - if two or more survivors had the same preference it would randomly choose who started with the item, then go to the next item in their preference list). Eliminate the key from the game, but the aura reading addons for the key now become map addons.
Item addons: Like killer addons, pro/cons. Presuming that the above idea for items were implemented, I'd also add more addon features to the items.
Mechanics: Kobe attempts on the first two hooks of the game are impossible barring a guaranteed escape rate or it being EGC. Rework slippery meat to increase the radius of the anti-face camp mechanic (which I also think would make the mechanic better because it would prevent killers from being certain about where they can proxy camp from). Rework luck to impact items from chests or just eliminate luck entirely.
Base Game: More things can be communicated via the HUD. If a survivor has deliverance and is on the hook, it should show an icon. If reassured, it should show that on the HUD., etc.
More radical idea: Totally rework the bloodweb, its currently just there to eat up downtime. New bloodweb, everything in the game is permanent once unlocked, however each unlock (level) takes increasing amounts of bloodpoints. So at each level you'd be given the choice of two or three things to unlock (perks, item improvements, addons, offerings). What you don't choose goes back into the bloodweb draw pile., maybe you get it on the next try, maybe you don't see the options you didn't take for a very long time.
Offerings (I'll add this): Map offerings only moderately increase the odds of a certain map. Survivor bloodpoint offerings that target a specifc area increase by 200% and triple the cap.
Radical Rework of offerings: Remove bloodpoint and map offerings entirely. Offerings instead give small bonuses to the various map elements. Chest quality, gen spread, pallet spawns, hook spread, etc. Killer plays two offerings, each which are twice as strong as a single survivor offering.
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@pandorayr said:
These 3 perks are above 20% use and must be changed if want to change the metagame.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QGF0V40UNG5C/4d0b235072defd110f706f7c8f450caa.png
Why window of opportunity not received the changes announced in the PTB?
I'm so disappointed not to read in the update notes the announced changes to Window of Opportunities, I think this perk is quite unfair it should have some adjustments and the player need to use memory to remember where each window or pallet. Add a cooldown to reading auras similar to Object Of Obsession but only when the survivors are involved on a chased.
Change to Windows of Opportunity:
The first time you are injured and you are chased unlocks potential in your Aura-reading ability. The Auras of Breakable Walls Pallets and windows are revealed to you within 24/28/32 metres.
Windows of opportunity reveals the auras of breakable walls, pallets and windows each 30 seconds for 3 seconds.
Made for this is the most insane perk in the game, this perk destroy killers 4.4 or less speed, there should never have been a perk with an indefinite speed increase also gives the effect endurance.
Only change I can think is to limit the perk to 1 use for a trial.
Change to Made For this:
The first time you are the injured state the timer is activates to Made for This and you benefit from the following effect:
Gain a 1/2/3 % haste for the next 60 seconds.
Made For This Made can only be activated once per trial.
This perk and its effect are disabled once the exit gates are powered.
Adrenaline needs a nerf for a long time has remained unchange and mostly used perk because has two effects.
Unfair to keep beneficits effects of curing one health state and the speed boost.
Change to Adrenaline:
Once the Exit Gates are powered, instantly heal one Health State.
Adrenaline is on hold if you are disabled at the moment it triggers and will instead activate upon being freed.
If playing against The nightmare Adrenaline will wake you from the Dream World upon activation.
Adrenaline ignores an existing Exhaustion timer, but causes the exhausted Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds
Balancing the game should always about problems concerns on both sides
By the way now there is an anti-camping mechanic hope you add a new anti-gen-rush mechanic.
We need this change because repair not require skill and is also very easy and fast and increasing the time to complete a generation is not a solution and pressing the space key every 15 or 20 seconds a either.
Honestly this mechanic has become obsolete and deserves to be change the gameplay after so many years
Please tell me what you think, thanks.
These changes would destroy the perks. It's fine to want perks out of the meta, but you'd take perks that are strong and reduce them to some of the weakest perks in the game.
The change to windows would destroy it. It's a strong perk, but also serves a useful function for new players and learning maps. With ultimate weapon in the game now you have ways to blind the survivors as the killer pretty easily.
MFT - removing the endurance effect will be fine which is what I think they will do.
If this was going to be a single use 60 second perk the speed bonus would have to be on Hope levels to have any use.
Potentially you could have MFT trigger every time the survivor is injured for a max of 60 seconds and it still be usable.
Adrenaline - this perk is a risky take. It is incredibly useful if you are in chase with the killers when the gens pop, but it's not very useful otherwise. If you die before gens pop, no value. If you aren't in chase and aren't injured the speed boost means relatively little. Even if you are injured but not in chase, its not a big deal as its pretty risk free to get a heal at this point.
Endgame perks (Adrenaline, NOED, Hope) have to be very valuable to make up for the fact that they are only useful for a very small fraction of the overall game.
Anti-gen rush: The difference between this and the anti-face camp is that it is changing a core concept structure of the game. Players have to do gens, killers don't have to camp, especially given that the system doesn't even prevent proxy camping. There's no way you could add an anti-gen rush feature that doesn't radically change the balance of the game.
To address it, you'd need to make some pretty radical adjustments to multiple game elements. Maybe they should, but we're in a whole different discussion at that point.
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@mustdogen said:
Title
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YJ2QJZ4EGE8J/screenshot-20231011-190304.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZPFVM6GUO56R/screenshot-20231011-190316.png
Have any idea?
Can anyone remind me what happens in last few patch?
It would be crazy if a 7 year old game wasn't losing players.
Look at the full steam history of DbD. For a few years the game stuck around 10k players, then had a decent boost in mid 2018, then it stuck with ~20k players till COVID, where it saw a huge spike in popularity. The game has slowly been shedding those players ever since.
Basically, there's going to be a lot of variance in the numbers, but DbD will over time lose its player base, but there's nothing in the recent data that indicates anything unusual.
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Every map has three closest gens, why wouldn't I finish one of those?
I get the idea of trying to keep gens spread out that get finished, but this seems a silly way to approach it. You could have a lot of different gens regressing at the same time.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560040#Comment_3560040
how long were you mindgaming yourself that self-unhook activated?
you need to be kissing the survivor for 20 seconds to get it to go, and the further you are the slower the charge comes. like if you lost a survivor running around shack I'm almost tempted to assume the survivor got manually unhooked and you missed whoever unhooked them too
Oh, it's very simple, as a survivor all you have to is the following
Step 1: Get the killer to hook someone at shack
Step 2: Get the killers attention in a place that gives you enough distance to get back to the hook with them following you before getting hit.
Step 3: Actually get them to chase you instead of going for gens
Step 4: Hope as you lead them to the hook they don't just proxy camp and wait for you to unhook
Step 5: Once they don't proxy camp, you need to loop them well enough to not get hit but also be out of sight
Step 6: Hope they don't just facecamp the survivor, take the free unhook, but just get in a chase to tunnel that player
Step 7: Get away from the shack - this requires either slow walking or the killer to totally miss the scratch marks on the ground as you run away. Obviously, you can't have been injured at any time during the previous six steps or the killer will notice the blood trail/lack of pain moans.
Step 8: Hope they just stay there long enough confused about how you disappeared instead of thinking maybe they should go after a gen.
Step 9: Enjoy the game winning victory that is achieved by a survivor jumping off the hook and likely being targeted by the killer who is standing right there
Reminder: Do all of the above before a hook stage progresses. Strategy not valid against all killers.
On a more serious note: I suspect there will be survivors who will try this over the next few weeks to just feel out the system/challenge it, and I'm surely inevitably a few will pull it off, but it can't realistically seen to be giving survivors some type of advantage.
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Wesker seems the consensus and I agree.
I think one of the things about him that he does better than the other killers is meet skill levels correctly. A bad Wesker is going to have an even match against bad survivors, a good Wesker is going to have an even match against good survivors.
Some killers, like Wraith, start off just massacring the survivors until they climb in MMR. Others, like Nurse, get crushed at the start until the player masters the killer and then they have a significant edge.
Additionally: none of his add-ons are broken that make him too strong (Blight).
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559388#Comment_3559388
Do you happen to know why this is? It’s so strange how a perk is regarded as terrible in one place but somehow meta in another. Is there some way to use it that some of us don’t know about?
It's more of an issue that there are certain ways people in NA and Europe presume you should play the game that's not necessarily how its played.
I've been curious about the issue as well so I've been trying to watch some Asian twitch streams, my data sample is small, but a few things I noticed.
Soloq is a lot better. I just watched about three hours of a Korean streamer (recorded from a few days ago) and not once did I see someone quit on first hook (I finally saw someone let themselves die on second hook, they were the first hook, got camped by a plague) and everyone was always doing something - and it was pretty rare to see matches without at least one self care and seeing three self cares in a match was common.
The survivors also seem much more focused on getting themselves out. When it gets down to 1 or 2 gens, survivors really focus on finishing off those gens. So if you're injured and on death hook and want a heal, the other survivors might do gens instead
It also seems more common to just pop the doors and leave. So its possible you get to the end game and your teammates just run out, so if you are injured you'll want to heal yourself before you head for the exit.
Sloppy butcher also doesn't seem to be a common perk, no idea why, so the idea of getting half a heal, having to run away, and finish it yourself seems more common.
From what I've heard, there's also no concept of a killer handbook where there are 'right' ways to play. So if you make yourself open to tunneling, you're going to get tunneled. While it might sound weird, this seems to make tunneling less common, because survivors play not to be tunneled, and the killer knows that, so the killer doesn't try it in the first place.
This makes self care more common though because when you are unhooked you want to run to a deadzone to heal. While self care takes more time than a team heal, if you factor in the time wasted of two survivors having to run to a deadzone that bonus disappears.
Like I said, limited perspective. There's nothing where I was like 'oh, I've never seen that before', but certain the frequency of things seems to be different.
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The endgame of DbD is one of its weakest aspects when it is a clear 'win' for one side or the other.
As killer, if the survivors are still alive, you have no choice but to either surrender or camp the hook and hope they screw it up.
As a survivor, when you survivors are dead and one is slugged you have no choice but to either or surrender and hope the killer can't find you.
Both are boring and I wish they'd address both sides of it.
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@SimpleTora said:
Not trying to start an argument i'm just looking for an explanation since this perk is making the rounds as one of the more busted perks to be released
You open a locker and for a few seconds anybody in your TR screams and is afflicted with blindness then it goes on cd before being able to use it again.
That's all the perk does, and blindness without a doubt is the most useless status affliction in the game even against solo Q it does basically nothing aside from one rare 1 out of 100 game where nobody was paying attention to the obnoxiously big bubbles that happen whenever the killer hooks someone
That leaves just the screaming, which isn't even something new it's just a more reliable way to use the scream mechanic and even then the only perk this really synergizes well with is deadmans switch which was already nerfed to a subpar level (not saying it's bad it just didn't deserve the nerf imo), Yes, I know pig and doctor can use this perk fairly well with addons but they usually have to heavy commit to the gimmick or it doesn't work which makes it predictable, then there's wesker who can use it due to his naturally big TR but it's basically just a BBQ and Chili at that point.
I'm honestly unable to find out what makes the perk so strong. It's just a good info perk and nothing wrong with that imo
Before ultimate weapon, if you wanted to run a stealth build, you could bring distortion, which you had to balance around the charges. Now you have to guess between calm spirit and distortion or just waste two perks slots.
Additionally, the ability on the killers part to control when you find survivors is very strong. With other info perks you always have a degree of uncertainty. BBQ not seeing auras? Are they close, running distortion, or did you miss them behind a gen?
While ultimate weapon has a cooldown, the killer has complete control of when to proc it and there is very little survivors can do about it during a game. The terror radius also means when it hits you will be within the vicinity of a survivor, with things like BBQ it might pop and you'll see the survivors all the way across the map, but the time you get there they've left without a trace.
That's all the perk does, and blindness without a doubt is the most useless status affliction in the game even against solo QIt's kind of like, why is it even there? I know there are similar survivor perks, but when a perk has one really good feature it having any additional benefits is just something that should be corrected.
It's just a good info perk and nothing wrong with that imoIt's not just a good info perk, in many ways its the best info perk. Aura reading killers would usually spend multiple slots on perks, likely lethal pursuer and at least one other, ultimate weapon gets those benefits all on its own.
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@Nazzzak said:
I'm in Western Australia, and I get put in an Asian server alot. Self Care is very common, and definitely not just new players. I also don't see MFT as much as others seem to, which makes sense because using SC means you don't plan to play injured. Having reliable team mates is uncommon, it's true. But likewise, I see very little camping and tunnelling in my server (per my own stats, tunnelling averages about 1 in every 12 games, and camping around 1 in every 15). Different regions seem to have different approaches to and attitudes around gaming.
Having reliable team mates is uncommon, it's true. But likewise, I see very little campingStrategically, this is what should happen. The idea of camping is that it takes advantage of the survivors' altruism allowing easy downs. If as a Killer you don't believe that the survivors are in any hurry to come to the hook, you have no reason to stay there.
It's a weird reversal: the more a group of survivors care about playing as a team, the more the killer can use it against them, the less they care the easier it becomes to carry such actions out.
and tunnellingI think the logic here is because the SC survivor is going to run to a genless edge of the map after the unhook, trying to chase them is a waste of time. The amount of time you'd waste locating them would give the other survivors a significant edge in getting gens done. Tunneling is so effective on other servers because the chance that after an unhook you'll find the survivors right there healing is pretty high.
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@xEa said:
Hello
First of all before survivors jump on my throat: No, survivors are not more powerful then killer. If any, the matchmaking in pub is even or more likely killer sided - at least in terms of numbers. I dont want to debate that either. Second, i am not a killer main, i play on average 60% survivor and 40% killer.
But
Have you ever loged in DBD, intending to play killer, sitting there and thinking through witch killer to play and eventually switching to survivor (or closing the game) because you cant decide with what killer you want yourself stress out the next 5-10 minutes? This happens to me from time to time.
It almost feels like i am a little terrifyed even in advance to play that role. Dont get me wrong, i win most of my killer games, but sometimes alone thinking of it feels odd.
If you ever had this feeling, and i am sure some probably know what i am talking, why is that?
What makes playing killer so unpleasent? Or even the thought about a certain match?
And what is the solution to that problem? We are not talking here about "Buff killers", because that is surely not the issue, but rather how to make the game more enjoyable for us/them.
Kind regards
Have you ever loged in DBD, intending to play killer, sitting there and thinking through witch killer to play and eventually switching to survivor (or closing the game) because you cant decide with what killer you want yourself stress out the next 5-10 minutes? This happens to me from time to time.The age old DbD question: which role is more stressful.
I find survivor more stressful, a few reason why I think that is true.
1: Some people have said you can blame the other survivors, while you can only blame yourself as killer. I feel the opposite. If I let down myself, no big deal, if I let down my team that's a huge problem.
2: I find lots of partial victories in playing killer. A single kill, 8 hooks, all feel like good games even if I didn't 'win'. It doesn't feel the same as a survivor, there's no accomplishment in almost getting the gens done or moral victory because we did pretty good against a cracked nurse. Anything short of an escape feels like a defeat.
3: As killer I play under various nice guy rules. I try not to eliminate anyone before 3 gens have popped, if I'm chasing two survivors I go after the one who has been hooked less, I refuse to bring what I consider overpowered addons and limit my perk selection. I go into the game with the mindset to be chill, if I lose, so be it.
4: Loss streaks. I've had times as survivors were I've lost upwards of 15 games in a row. The most I've ever lost as killer in a row I think is 3. If I get trounced as a killer I can always go next for a different experience, as survivor its easy to just get into a rut of loss after loss.
What makes playing killer so unpleasent? Or even the thought about a certain match?And what is the solution to that problem?Some people are looking for the stress, its part of the game's appeal, so not sure it is even something that should be fixed.
I'd say change your expectations, but that's very close to impossible. Once you have a mindset that's likely what you are going to keep.
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@grandpa_general said:
nurse, blight, plague comes to mind. they destroy solo q while swf sweep the floor with them. the overall balance between soloq and swf is stagnating. maybe its really a better idea to flung swf out of dbd because the game is not designed with team comp in mind but by pure RNG.
The nurse and blight don't make sense, if a SWF can sweep the floor with them that SWF can probably sweep the floor with anyone.
I'd gladly remove SWFs from the game entirely, but its not going to happen, it would be a financial disaster. I think BHVR feels that the SWF>killer>soloq formula works.
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Skull merchant is at the top, but has a change incoming.
In terms of killers who I don't think are anyway broken but I just don't like versing, Plague is at my top and Spirit would be after that.
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@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557248#Comment_3557248
i think ive been let down by autodiadect more than my soloq team in the past years. too much RNG
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557249#Comment_3557249
do we know how much is the pick rate for sloppy at the moment ? i see it all the time as well.
Also i ve seen some people in the discussion agree that sloppy is overtuned especially against soloq. does anyone else think the opossite and that sloppy shoudnt be changed and its fair against soloq team and swf alike ?
Also i ve seen some people in the discussion agree that sloppy is overtuned especially against soloq. does anyone else think the opossite and that sloppy shoudnt be changed and its fair against soloq team and swf alike ?Eh, I've already said I think sloppy could use some type of nerf, but compared to some other perks its not that huge of a difference between SWF and soloq. SWFs can bring a dedicated healer and do resets, but that has a benefit with normal healing as well. They suffer just as much from an interrupted heal.
Yeah, SWFs still have an advantage, but this isn't like the perks that make survivors blind to certain things that SWFs can just outright ignore.
@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557304#Comment_3557304
Ill just copy paste my reply to another user because thats how much thought you put in the dicussion we are having
"" i understand what you mean. but we are discussing a perk that affect soloq more than SWF to the point where its problematic and unfair. ( any perk can affect soloq more than SWF but is it unfair problematic or its fine and fairly balanced ) ""
I also really love how each person has their own way of dealing with sloppy in soloq. but i notice most of the perks mentioned rely heavely on RNG or many prequesit. For example: Autodiadact ( RNG) inner healing ( using time to find a boon to cleanse, then finding a locker only to be injured by a cloacked wraiht and doing it all over again which is kind of throwing for your team on gen pressure ) second wind ( if the killer hits your borrowed time might make things difficult).
inner healing ( using time to find a boon to cleanse, then finding a locker only to be injured by a cloacked wraiht and doing it all over again which is kind of throwing for your team on gen pressure )If you manage to occupy that much of the Wraiths time you aren't throwing. If the rest of your team isn't doing gens, they're the problem (which, in soloq, frequently happens).
A bigger problem with inner healing that if multiple people bring it you quickly run out of totems.
@buckk0097 said:
i was trying to correct my reply but somehow it disapeared.
but i think the majority agrees its overtuned after the healing nerfs. but the issue is how on earth do you begin tweaking it so its not that oppressive against average soloq but still be useful to killer that need it ? i legitimately have no idea
Hemorrhage could be turned way down. If it dropped at a much slower rate, like a kicked gen, there would still be a reason to try and finish the heal. The killer would still get value, survivor time wasted, but it wouldn't be such a devastating impact.
2nd option: split it into two perks, one for the hemorrhage, one for the mangled, but also make each slightly stronger. When I first encountered the perk as a new killer I was so surprised you got two good powers with a single perk.
3rd option: proposed by a few people on here, make perks like resurgence, reactive healing, and solidarity cancel out the mangled/hemorrhage effect. Even if the killer isn't running Sloppy, none of these perks are that great, but sloppy absolutely destroys them. Giving them the power to provide additional protection would make them potentially worthwhile.
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@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557184#Comment_3557184
if sloppy isnt there then healing to reset is almost always worth it and the problem of healing goes away. i hope you can see my issue with it. but yeh that discussion you mentioned is way too big for my head to handle
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557181#Comment_3557181
would you be kind enough not to put experienced killers ideas into not so experienced fresh wraith and spirit mains. the time it takes them to learn that kind of keeps the balance of things
So if the question is: "Is sloppy too powerful?"
Yeah, it probably is. As a killer you are basically guaranteed to get a lot of value out of it, it doesn't require any particular playstyle, and interrupting a heal can be devastating to the survivors. Given how frequently it appears I'd expect it to be in line for a nerf at some point down the road.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557141#Comment_3557141
Because then by the time a killer would find some gens survivors would have done all of the rest, and the same with hooks. Is with Boil Over and in some maps you can have the hook in front of you and not see it, imagine not showing them at all. It's not about fun or it being "more playable", it is about it being playable at all.
Adding free Kindred to the AFC system is not making the game more fun or playable, is gaining an unasked and unnecessary advantage to survivors by making basekit yet another perk so you have another slot without losing any benefit.
What BHVR should do is add a ping system and / or in game voicechat so you all stop using SoloQ as the excuse for asking for any advantage you can come up with. It is not about "not penalizing SWF", is not buffing them because you want to compensate your and your teammates lack of common sense with in game mechanics.
I play SoloQ, and I use PT with SA. Why? Because I don't have any other form of saying "Hey, I'm on this gen if you need healing or want to help me done it faster". Do you want to say "Hey I'm being camped"? Use Kindred. Simple and easy. Without adding another general buff to survivors, that at the same time buffs SWF even more.
The best part about all of this is that it is precisely killers the ones that doesn't have any type of QoL of any kind. We can't see how many hooks survivors have, most of the killers can't even see how much of their power is applied to someone, no crosshair for ranged killers, not any kind of info in the status effects that we trigger, and not even a signal that we are still in the hook area of the new AFC system, either. Nothing. It has took years for BHVR to just say "Alright, we will add a FOV slider even if it is for accessibility reasons" and the entity knows how many more until they add it to the game.
To end this half response / half rant, Bloodlust was introduced to the game to stop survivors from abusing infinite loops and is so conditioned that most killers would forget they had it till it activates, just to lose it instantly the moment they use their power or kick a pallet.
And camping already had gameplay solutions, for the exception of a few killers that are able to camp so efficiently that there is almost no counter to it (and I say "are", because funnily enough the system don't affect to those killers at all). So, the system is a gift to the crying crowd from BHVR so the game do the work for you in another aspect of it to the sole purpose of quieting the masses. But it is amazing that BHVR didn't realized by now that you people would never have enough, and this post is the proof.
Because then by the time a killer would find some gens survivors would have done all of the rest, and the same with hooks. Is with Boil Over and in some maps you can have the hook in front of you and not see it, imagine not showing them at all.You could easily take away the killer's ability to see gens and balance around that.
You could even just flash the gens at the start of the game and expect the killer to remember the locations.
Hooks could just be made a little more visible on the map and killers could be expected to spot the hook before a pick up.
I'm not saying either game design would be better, but it wouldn't destroy the game.
It's not about fun or it being "more playable", it is about it being playable at all.Which is exactly the complaint about camping.
Adding free Kindred to the AFC system is not making the game more fun or playable,Subjective, I definitely think it would be more fun. In this context OP isn't even asking for a basekit Kindred, just a general 'killer is still around' indicator on the HUD.
is gaining an unaskedOP is literally asking here and its far from the first time someone has brought it up.
We can't see how many hooks survivors have, most of the killers can't even see how much of their power is applied to someone, no crosshair for ranged killers, not any kind of info in the status effects that we trigger, and not even a signal that we are still in the hook area of the new AFC system, either. Nothing.When this usually comes up its because the killer has most of the things they need, especially as things like infinites have been fixed over the years. But I'll go through your list
Hooks: Sure, whatever, I really don't think it would make a difference.
Power application: I have no idea how this is quality of life and not a balance issue.
Crosshairs: I've never had an issue with it, but again, sure.
Status Effects: I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
Hook area: We'll see how it plays out on live servers. If it becomes common for killers to accidently trigger the hook free, sure, we can talk. But this would make it very easy for the killer to move 0.1 m past the target point, which is not the intention.
So, the system is a gift to the crying crowd from BHVR so the game do the work for you in another aspect of it to the sole purpose of quieting the masses.I never get tired of the idea that BHVR trying to address their customers' concerns about the game is somehow bad.
But it is amazing that BHVR didn't realized by now that you people would never have enough, and this post is the proof.Yeah, we want the game to be better. Everyone has their own lists of how it could improve. You are free to agree or disagree with any proposed suggestion, but just because one change was done doesn't mean future changes are somehow forbidden.
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@buckk0097 said:
it seems the majority in the discussion agrees that healing should be done by others rather than oneself.
3 problems i have with what mentioned above:
- being healed by a teammate against sloppy is not efficient as some people said here. it actually takes a long time that its better if we both just do gens with resilience and run mft hope. ( again being forced back into the meta).
- we are putting too much expectations on soloq teammates to run altruistic perks.
- the fact the syringe on medkit is acceptable now because of one perk. remember if sloppy is not in the mix healing is very fair and worth getting 2 people to do it and reset
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557157#Comment_3557157
please dont forget that spirit mains exist who run this perk with 3 gen slow down ( pair res /pop /jolt ) and very good addons. quite common killer i run into in my games btw
being healed by a teammate against sloppy is not efficient as some people said here. it actually takes a long time that its better if we both just do gens with resilience and run mft hope. ( again being forced back into the meta).
That's a different issue. If the question is not 'what's the best way to heal' but instead 'should we even heal or not?', then yes, sometimes not bothering to heal is the absolutely right play.
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@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557124#Comment_3557124
so according to your logic. i need to Somehow tell my soloq temmates to equip well make it. a bad perk in general instead of their MFT . DH Hope....
also according to you i have to sacrifice 3 perks slots to mitigate the issue. isnt this the same as telling killer to play instadown powers to avoid mft on first chase ?
god there are always people like you that instead of talking about issue and what could be causing it look for the closest perk to slap a band aid solution on it. in hope to shut any valid complaints . happened with deadhard ( just run blood echo ) old object ( play ghost face or scratch mirror myers ) camping bubba ( just do gens and dont save ) ....... some of these examples are over the top but still you get the idea
His advice is solid. The current game isn't built around being able to heal yourself, you need teammates to do it. Doesn't have to be We'll Make It, Botany is also an option. But even without perks, healing with others is always going to be the right (efficent) course.
CoH sometimes gets massive value, but frequently it doesn't get much. Don't expect other survivors to rush to you just because you are in the aura, it probably wouldn't be a good strategy on their part anyway. The only time you should head toward the CoH expecting a heal is if you know a survivor is already in the area, another survivors is following you, or the whole team is injured and might be doing the same thing.
Sloppy is really strong on certain killers, like Wraith. Never heal near the hook against any high mobility killer without We'll Make It, generally avoid healing until there is a good opportunity (such as them being in a chase with someone else).
If you're bringing a medkit, bring a syringe. If the killer is running sloppy, use the charges healing teammates, use the syringe after your second unhook.
If you absolutely need to heal yourself, either bring a medkit and get used to running to far corners of the map, or bring Inner Healing.
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@Batusalen said:
So, the system is not even out yet and there is already complains that it is not hand holdy enough! That was fast.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556731#Comment_3556731
But you are not asking for "coordination tools", or even a "fix". What you are asking is for the system granted for free to you to also make you don't need to use a perk that do already what you asking for. In other words, you want for the system to be another perk slot, so it is both a free Deliverance and Kindred in one.
In conclusion: You already have your "coordination tool" available, is called Kindred. Use it.
Why don't killers have to use perk slots to see gens? Or a perk slot to get bloodlust? Or a hook when picking up a survivor? Or even a perk slot to move faster than survivors?
The answer is that those are elements that make the game more fun and playable. Which should always be the discussion with concepts like this, is 'insert issue' good for the game or not. If the answer is its not good for the game, the solution shouldn't be perks, it should be basekit. BHVR should never have tried to solve camping through perks (or if they did, the perks should have been so strong as to heavily punish the playstyle).
Camping is bad for the game. All efforts should be made to deal with it through base kit measures. At that point the discussion should be whether the discussed measures work without having unintended consequences.
The power difference between SWF and soloq is bad for the game. Penalizing SWFs seems to be a bridge BHVR won't even consider, so that leaves us with ways to move soloq closer. Things that SWFs can communicate 'easily' should be basekit.
I'd settle for a callout system, such as a 'I'm being camped' that becomes available when on the hook. But I also think giving survivors more basekit HUD info, such as if someone has a deliverance or can jump off the hook because of being camped, would also be worthwhile.
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@chimera3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554472#Comment_3554472
Okay? Overwatch is A MASSIVE game developed by a MASSIVE company. DBD is roughly a medium sized game with a small to mediums sized company. Both games have/had adequate proportions in their respective games. It's not that hard to understand.
Also, DBD is currently offered on PSN and Xbox for 29.99 and steam 19.99. Very weird to not say that.
"On the DLC, I suspect....." On what grounds? On what proof? On what data? Huh? This is such a random and bad take
I never understand why people who think they know how companies work don't have a clue what they're talking about. They're selling a product with flaws in monetization, which a consumer is allowed to critique. If you can't handle that, don't come onto a forum where critique is taking place. Simple
"On the DLC, I suspect....." On what grounds? On what proof? On what data? Huh? This is such a random and bad takeI never understand why people who think they know how companies work don't have a clue what they're talking aboutOn what grounds am I wrong? On what proof? On what data?
It's easy to claim someone else doesn't have data, but what exactly is your argument based on? I'm willing to admit places I'm relying on logical arguments because I don't believe anyone has access to BHVR's financial data.
Here are the logical reasons that the DLC likely doesn't see sales anywhere near the number of original copies.
1: Inevitably, there are people who stop playing the game. If everyone who ever purchased the game was still playing we'd see player counts over ten million. People who aren't playing the game aren't going to buy a DLC.
2: If a DLC doesn't interest a player, they have no reason to buy it.
3: Casual players have less incentive to buy more content. If a person only plays the game a few times a month, the base game can last quite awhile.
Okay? Overwatch is A MASSIVE game developed by a MASSIVE company. DBD is roughly a medium sized game with a small to mediums sized company. Both games have/had adequate proportions in their respective games. It's not that hard to understand.I don't know whether you think Overwatch is a good example or not. You are the one who originally brought them up.
Also, DBD is currently offered on PSN and Xbox for 29.99 and steam 19.99. Very weird to not say that.I provided the data for DbD and noted that it is a game that at times has sold at deep discounts.
Also, how many people do you think are buying new copies of DbD at this point in time?
They're selling a product with flaws in monetization, which a consumer is allowed to critique. If you can't handle that, don't come onto a forum where critique is taking place. SimpleIf you can't handle people pointing out and giving reasons why you are wrong, don't come onto forums. You are allowed as a consumer to say you dislike something, but others are allowed to point out why that's not reasonable.
DbD is a game that sees continual development. The people working on that need to be paid and expenses need to be covered. That requires a steady stream of income.
Sales of a game at $20 a pop are not going to cover 7 years of development. A couple of licensed DLC each year are not going to cover those costs at current price points. Either they need an additional source of revenue, i.e. cosmetics, or the base price of the other products would need to increase (which probably wouldn't be viable).
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@chimera3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554289#Comment_3554289
DBD has an average of 50K to 100K players daily.....the player count is more than fine. The base game price ranges from around 30 to 40 USD....it's not a 5 dollar game. And with the constant stream of paid DLC? Please. And sure, some more revenue sharing, but if you really think they need skin money to pay them then I don't know what to tell you. I never understand why people go so hard for excess monetizations on games
Overwatch is one of the top ten selling games of all time with over 50 million copies sold. The best data I could find on DbD is they had around 20 million copies.
On price, console data is hard to find, but on PC Overwatch sold at $40 for about 2 and a half years, before dropping to $20, with occasional drop from then on to $15. DbD opened at $20 and has dropped all the way down to free at points.
On the DLC, I suspect of all the people who purchased the game the majority did not purchase DLC either because they weren't interested or stopped playing the game. People who have put thousands of hours into the game might not be a rarity on the forum, but they aren't really representative of everyone.
I never understand why people go so hard for excess monetizations on gamesI never understand that people don't get how companies work. They want/need to make money, they do this by selling a product people want. As a consumer, if you don't think a product is worth the cost, don't buy it.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553759#Comment_3553759
I wonder how they could implement something like that. Obviously hatch is an option with one survivor left, but it's hard to keep morale going if someone ducks out early or is tunnelled out early or team mates insist on doing nothing. So alternative escape routes would help with that, but I feel like anything that gives survivors an additional chance would be too controversial for BHVR to even consider.
Plus alternative escape routes could be just as damaging to teamwork as someone ducking out, getting tunnelled, etc, because if doing gens are still the primary objective, then you'd potentially have team mates neglecting gens in favour of something else. I dunno. They'd probably have to completely overhaul the game tbh.
It's funny because the 1v1v1v1v1 seems to have always been BHVR's goal, they wanted it with Bloodharvest as well. The problem in their designs is that the side getting eliminated is severely harmed by a single elimination thus necessitating team play. But it seems TCM has actually picked up that design better than BHVR has.
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@chimera3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553609#Comment_3553609
You do know when you buy the game, they receive that money. This isn't free to play, how do you think Overwatch thrived for years having free skins?
Player count, base game price, and not having to share revenue with as many partners.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553703#Comment_3553703
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553706#Comment_3553706
Tell me in what planet is a 5 gen pop + exit gate open + escapes realistically a "tie".
A 2 man escape automatically implies all 5 gens were done *hence Killer lost at his effective main goal.* when killer can bruteforce a 1-2K just by camping in endgame I'd be hard pressed to call that a Tie, its more akin to consolation kills than anything, much to the likes of a hatch escape being a consolation escape than a survivor win.
The survivors as a team made it out, they effectively won as a *team*, just because they lost 1-2 people in the process doesn't mean the team didn't effectively win.
Tell me in what planet is a 5 gen pop + exit gate open + escapes realistically a "tie".A 2 man escape automatically implies all 5 gens were done *hence Killer lost at his effective main goal.*I think it goes to a statement where the game is balanced that you're effectively making a harder win condition for killers than it actually is.
As others have said a 2e is pretty rare as an event, it's usually more or less than that, just the average. However, in the case where you killed two survivors, two of the survivors don't feel like they won, two do feel like they did. That's a draw.
The game isn't built around team mechanics on the survivor side. Maybe it should be where survivors get a shared pool of points, but they don't, each is on his own.
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@dgbug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553609#Comment_3553609
Honestly, I'm fine with the rift pass as is, I just don't want them to use FOMO tactics as they're doing currently to make people think buying something is a better deal than it actually is. Original content should be easier to earn in-game while still being purchasable, and packs like the Headcase pack where you can buy a couple yellow-green rarity cosmetics for 4-5 bucks would be VERY nice and most likely easy to do.
Honestly, I'm fine with the rift pass as is,If they took away the auric cells this might work, but there's no way they could make the money needed via a single purchase of the rift pass if people just got to regain it every time.
I just don't want them to use FOMO tacticsIt's kind of what lots of games, and other businesses, revolve around. The creation of short term periods to create both interest and sales.
I get the point, though it would likely increase the overall price of a lot of things as frequent cosmetic buyers fun the game for everyone who is not in that group.
Original content should be easier to earn in-game while still being purchasableBut they don't actually make any money from people who just play the game. In fact, it kind of does the opposite. If you are saying the more you play, the less you should need to pay, you're asking those who don't play the game as much to make up the difference.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553680#Comment_3553680
https://youtu.be/Bxf3uzI--ik?si=nTGuDuO0XlhYC_9M
Im not doing any difficult math, its literally what happened in the games, even with hooks and saves, they still popped all 5 and left in ~3 minutes. Game 1 is a *perfect example*
Lets be real here, a killer 2k (Community claimed tie) is still effectively a killer Loss, a 2k implies survivors did all their gens and were on their way out. Game 7 + Game 9 on the video are *perfect examples* of this.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553685#Comment_3553685
A 50% Killrate implies 2 kills out of 4. (because you know, basic math says that half of 4 is 2) which in turn, for this to be a reality, survivors have to pop all 5 gens since only 1 person can escape trough hatch.
As i've said above, even though a 2k is considered a tie by the community, its effectively still a killer loss because all 5 gens were popped and the survivors were on their way out.
As i've said above, even though a 2k is considered a tie by the community, its effectively still a killer loss because all 5 gens were popped and the survivors were on their way out.You're kind of making up your own win conditions at the moment. I could say they should shoot for a 25% kill rate because that would mean on average the survivors lost someone which means they didn't really win.
If you're shooting for an idea that gens getting finished is a killer loss, until to balance that at 50%, that would mean in most games 4 out of the 5 players didn't even have the prospect of victory. That's not really a formula for a successful game.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553652#Comment_3553652
You know very well that Hens' speedrun video proved your claims completely wrong, at super high MMR with killers bringing corrupt, DL, No way out etc, and actively *trying to win* they still managed 5 gen pops + escapes in 3~ minutes
Do you have any idea how many chases a killer can do in 3 minutes at a VERY GOOD 30 seconds max a chase? 6 chases... a whole lot of *SIX* chases..... Now if you're realistic and include the time to find the survivor +travel + hook, you're looking at *at a minimum* of 45-60s between chases. at that point you get.... 3 chases.... ***THREE WHOLE CHASES IN A MATCH*
You're welcome to grab a normal speedrun match (No farming / AFK) and point out the "killer mistakes" that allowed the speedrun to happen.
But im feeling nice so I'll save you the trouble. "Well the killer didn't bring corrupt or deadlock"
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On the topic of killrates, a 50% killrate is not fair at all thats a killer loss/Tie every game and never a win.
Its time to stop being so survivor biased.
On the topic of killrates, a 50% killrate is not fair at all thats a killer loss/Tie every game and never a win.What?
There's no way you get a 50% with only ties and losses. The argument why it needs to be higher than 50% is that survivors are more likely to afk, but as the poster said, its more than a 50% rate.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553548#Comment_3553548
The counter argument to what he said was made long before and after he made it. Other thing is that he decided to ignore it or you decided to keep trying to defend it.
By the way, another advantage of do the gens faster: Less time lost per charge regressed and faster recovery. If a killer regress 10 charges from a gen, you would have lost 10 seconds if it was only one survivor on the gen. If there were 2, only 5.88 seconds of work would have being lost. And vice-versa, it would take another 10 seconds to recover that 10 charges, but with two survivors it would be recovered in 5.88 seconds. In other words, having multiple survivors in one gen is the best way to combat regression.
But keep it up. The day they change the spawns and nerf the toolboxes and perks and nothing changes we will talk again.
By the way, another advantage of do the gens faster: Less time lost per charge regressed and faster recovery. If a killer regress 10 charges from a gen, you would have lost 10 seconds if it was only one survivor on the gen. If there were 2, only 5.88 seconds of work would have being lost.This isn't accurate.
You continue to assume that the second survivor if not on the gen is just standing in a corner. If the survivors split up, the gen that survivor is on has never been regressed, nor did they ever need to run off of it. Thus not only is their work never lost in the first place, they were able to get more done.
The counter argument to what he said was made long before and after he made it. Other thing is that he decided to ignore it or you decided to keep trying to defend it.Okay, so he's won the argument basically but you don't want to admit it.
The day they change the spawns and nerf the toolboxes and perks and nothing changes we will talk again.You want to talk toolboxes and perks, go ahead.
On the argument that survivors grouping up at the start of the match is needing to be fixed, you are clearly wrong. It is a decision with some pros and a lot of cons.
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@dgbug said:
Out of every problem in DBD, I can firmly say that the worst ones are monetization-related. BHVR keeps adding new skins that people don't want to DLCs to artificially inflate prices, removes skins from the store when it's not "the season" that they should be in the game despite NOBODY wanting that, and they treat a fully paid game like a Freemium game with a Battle Pass and 10$ cosmetics that take UNHOLY amounts of time to grind for.
BHVR will cite not wanting to use FOMO in their reasoning as to why they won't reward their most dedicated players, and then turn around and use FOMO tactics with new cosmetics! On top of this, they actively link sets that SHOULDN'T be linked (Every RE skin, for example) and wonder why people barely play those characters.
This game's pricing is insane, and Iri Shards should be MUCH easier to acquire so new players can at least play the ORIGINAL CONTENT without grinding nearly 2000 hours to unlock every survivor and killer.
And on top of all of these issues, they actively link sets that DON'T NEED TO BE on characters who desperately need skins (gabriel, haddie) and then wonder why they don't ######### sell well! It genuinely feels wrong that they're actively sabotaging their POC survivors by constantly giving their newer ones linked sets and REFUSING to unlink sets that shouldn't be!
I know that this will be fully ignored which is. Frustrating. But please don't make this game a budget fortnite. Y'all are better than this.
But please don't make this game a budget fortnite. Y'all are better than this.What would be your preference for how they make money?
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553022#Comment_3553022
I gave a response to that and you replied
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3552655#Comment_3552655
"I stopped reading there."
So I will try one last time to respond. I even drew a little diagram to keep things more lighthearted.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2ECSWPWGHQVD/solovduo.png
Situation A is comparable to C with no toolboxes, and B to D with giga toolboxes (Commodius/Event+WireSpool+SocketSwivels). I also removed travel time between gens in favor of your argument (as the solo gen times don't need to run between gens).
When Survivors duo on gens, their comparable time is roughly 16s longer than the solo equivalent to pop 2 gens. Heck, a solo Surv with a gigabox can complete a single gen only ~2s slower than 2 Survivors duoing a gen. The item is so powerful, it replaces an entire player for a gen. That's crazy. I can't see how co-oping gens could be considered a problem when Survivors are already penalized to do so. I can understand how soloing gens is a problem, because of the risk/reward ratios.
I don't think they have a response to the arguments you've made, so I just wanted to say I liked the pictures.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3552783#Comment_3552783
I cannot break a completed Gen. Therefore, although not as efficient, survivors who group up can be a danger if they manage to finish that Gen before I can interrupt it.
If you are unlucky in the start 1-2 Gens pop before you are even there.
And even if you get to that Gen, one survivor will be chased while the other(s) complete the Gen in your face unless you are Blight or Nurse and the chase only takes 10s.
Before the PT nerf it was very important to sniff out the players who had this perk so that gens would not fly.
I
cannot break a completed Gen. Therefore, although not as efficient, survivors who group up can be a danger if they manage to finish that Gen before I can interrupt it.Yes, that's the trade off. Survivors give up efficiency for a completed gen. However, survivors need to complete 5 gens. They've wasted time to finish 1.
And even if you get to that Gen, one survivor will be chased while the other(s) complete the Gen in your face unless you are Blight or Nurse and the chase only takes 10s.And if they were on different gens, the one survivor would never have to leave the gen. If they are that determined to finish the gen you can now play mind games and potentially get a free hit on one.
But again, they need to finish 5 gens, if they are that determined to finish the first gen or two you have no particular reason to protect it.