crogers271
crogers271
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There's enough perks as a survivor that you can be viable from the start. That's "good enough".
While the grind can be annoying, it also is a reason that the game keeps a player base. Having perks locked behind either pay or grind means either BHVR gets paid or people stay in the game and play to unlock things. In the latter case, it gives a sense of reward to finally earn something. I grinded out all of the survivors I could purchase with shards (waited until half off sales) and it felt more meaningful to finally have access to certain things. If I'd just had it from the very beginning it probably wouldn't have meant as much.
It's all a psychological trick to feel like my playing a video game has actually accomplished something, but that's a lot of what video games are.
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588053#Comment_3588053
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588080#Comment_3588080
That's because shattered hope should have always been basekit, then they could have actually made boons useful outside of the healing one that they have since made at less useful (still viable but heavily overshadowed by other perks these days). And actually make them a "survivor hex perk" high risk, high reward.
Except now we are stuck with either, survivor perks that are way too OP (old COH). Or ones that are completely useless (dark theory)
Add to this that stacking boon perks was a bad idea. It was always going to be impossible to make a perk like dark theory valid if you had to imagine it could be used on its own or in conjunction with 3 other perks. The end design of boons was that there was one major boon that it would be very foolish not to run if you were doing boons (circle of healing) and 3 other minor boons that gave minimal benefits and you might or might not run on top of it (this is a balancable design, but its not the way BHVR approaches the game).
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588694#Comment_3588694
Thats my point. The perk is mainly used to NOT learn maps.
From what i have seen and experienced myself, the perk is used in 3 ways:
- Learn maps
- Know which pallets are already used or not used
- Automatize survivor gameplay in regards to chases ( just run to yellow )
Personally, im fine with the first 2. Sadly i feel like the 3rd is the most common usage out of the 3. Please prove me wrong!
I don't know how you differentiate between 2 and 3. Knowing whether a pallet is present or not is the main reason to run to an area.
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I think both supporters and opponents of WoO get something wrong about the perk. It's not a memorization or a skill issue per se, though those can be linked. Even if you memorize every map while in a chase your brain has to run through that information to figure out the best path. That might only be a fraction of a second, but its those small differences in time that determine whether the survivor makes a pallet or not (and it introduces the possibility of mistakes).
Windows skips that process, allowing even an incredibly experienced survivor to path faster than they would have without it.
I don't really have an opinion on whether it is too strong or not. I rarely run it because I feel it ruins the immersion of being a survivor which is a totally different issue (it's also makes the map ugly).
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Dying Light - Slow down survivors by doing the thing you were going to do anyway.
Diversion - Spend time hiding in the killer's terror radius without being caught, then you get to throw a pebble.
This is a fun forum game.
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Against a Wraith, do not rescue the survivor on the hook until the Wraith starts a chase with someone else.
Do not heal by the hook, the Wraith can make it back way too fast.
If the survivors play into his power, which way too frequently they do, he's going to have an easy game.
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I have two issues with the perk:
1: With any perk that has multiple powers, I like to think of what would have happened if they just released the perk with half the effect. The scream effect without the blindness probably would have been powerful enough. The blind effect without the scream probably would not have been (though adjustments to the cooldown could make it useful enough to counter windows players).
So anytime we have a perk that probably could stand with only half of its abilities, its a problematic perk.
2: If you want to be a stealth player there was a clear perk to choose: distortion. This gave you a good, but not unlimited, way to avoid killers trying to detect you. And if the killer ran no aura reading, you still had 3 other perks.
Now we're in a guessing game. If the survivor brings CS and distortion, both might be wasted slots, and almost certainly one will get no value. If the survivor brings distortion and the killer brings UW, the survivor had the right idea, just the wrong execution.
Part of DbD is a guessing game on what perks will be in play and how well they match up, that's a generally desirable and also inevitable part of the game. Throwing ultimate weapon into the mix just pushes it too far for me.
At a minimum, I'd like them to toss the 30% slower on totems from CS, even if you throw the silent part as well, because running calm spirit and hitting a hex killer means you have a perk that's hurting you.
Minor Note: UW weapon is a nerf to the rarely used Spies From the Shadows, by increasing the number of players running calm spirit it weakened the value of Spies.
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If I could make a change to ultimate weapon, and reworking it was off the table, I'd give it an increasing cooldown after every use to make the killer think about when to use it.
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Everyone has their preferences, that's normal. Skull Merchant was unique in how many people hated her.
Personally: I really dislike Plague and Spirit if that's who I'm matched up against. Wraith is also kind of just meh.
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Balanced? Yes. Fun? That's a different question.
Balance depends on how it impacts the overall game. To reliably use ftp + buckle up the survivor using it needs to devote 2 perk slots to it, and they have to follow the chased survivor around, meaning he's not on gens. Being he needs to be close to the chase, it creates the possibility of getting caught and an easy hit for the killer.
If the survivor does pull it off, both survivors are now injured and the survivor can't use it for 60 seconds + however long it takes to get a heal. Then the killer can either swing through the endurance, or count to 11 in their head.
Compare this to other means to try and save a downed survivor. A pallet save or flashlight don't cause a survivor to be wounded. A sabotage play is less likely to succeed, but it eats up far more of the killers time. All of those options require less perk combos to pull off.
Is it a good combo? Sure, but you have to trade quite a bit for the benefits.
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the Killer protects three generations and does nothing else since I find it terribly dull and demonstrates little to no skill in the matchIf its literally an issue where the killer does nothing else, killer should/will lose, perhaps with zero hooks. Since the nerf of Overbrine and SM its not much a viable strategy outside of a few rare setups (Dead Dawg). Just jump on the a gen, when killer comes run away from the other gens, when killer drops, run back.
If it comes to defending the last 3 gens, that's inevitable. On some maps they could be spread out a bit, but the last gen should be considerably harder to finish than the first 4.
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Sloppy - they should nerf hemorrhage.
Pain Res - It's fine. I could see changing it to 20%, but don't think its necessary.
STBFL - It could do with a slight reduction. 4% per token and stacks lost is 5/4/3.
UW - It doesn't seem to be a meta pick, I've felt like its frequency has dropped off. But yeah, I think the perk should get a nerf.
Other than UW, I think most of the perks are in pretty good place. A few could use a little bit of touch up, but being BHVR doesn't do touch ups and instead tends toward radical changes, we're likely to get substantial changes.
We had a rework of hangman's trick to take the perk from incredibly weak to a different type of incredibly weak and an overhaul of trickster that I don't think anyone was anticipating, so who knows what will happen.
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I like the idea that the killer's view themselves as a close knit group and they all refuse to close their eyes because they don't want the Doctor to be excluded.
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@BenSanderson55 said:
While baby survivors cannot. Don't see baby survivors looping for multiple gens or survivors all on separate gens while person being chased predrops. But I have seen on my many occasions trash killers getting 3 or 4k just from camping, tunneling, slugging. SOLOQ SOLOQ not thousand of hours team on comms I REPEAT SOLOQ
PS anticamp mechanic does nothing. I and many others tried to say (as earlier as the roadmap) it'll just teach killers how to camp better (proxy camp) and that's exactly what it did.
A number of reasons
1: If you have any experience with FPS games, the killer role should be easy to adapt. The survivor role is a little more unique.
2: Even a bad killer player has to pose a threat to actually have a game. By the game's nature, the killer just has more map to cover, meaning if the survivors are bad the game can still appear close because the killer has to divide his attention.
It's like the first few times a person tries playing a Nurse. Those games are just awful.
3: Killers have the ability to snowball. Even a bad killer can turn around a match quickly if things just fall right for them / the survivors make a mistake.
4: There's no good solution to certain killer strategies. The anti face camp mechanic has been a massive success. You can't prevent a killer from any form of tunneling /camping /slugging / 3 genning without a massive game overhaul because otherwise you've literally taken every killer strategy away.
5: Killers with a high skill ceiling destroy the game. See Deathgarden.
6: The killer doesn't have teammates. If one survivor plays poorly (sleep deprived, drunk, don't do good against the killer, not focused, and other reasons on top of just not being that good) it brings down the whole team.
7: The chased defines the difficulty. The survivor is the chased target, if the survivor plays poorly the killer wins by default, if the survivor plays perfectly however the killer really doesn't have a chance.
Basically, killer is mechanically simple while survivors have to learn a new set of mechanics. The difference between levels of killers is not a mastery of mechanics (it helps, especially on a killer like nurse, but is not as key as survivors), but in improving their game sense.
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@DemonDaddy said:
No
There is nothing wrong with slugging, the issue your experiencing is bad team altruism. The fact that anyone describes slugging as a 4min wait to bleedout reflects the survivors performance as a group and the individual's failure at multiple aspects of play before the down even happens.
If it is that common for you, use perks to address it or join a swf.
The fact that anyone describes slugging as a 4min wait to bleedout reflects the survivors performance as a group and the individual's failure at multiple aspects of play before the down even happens.Do you never get left to bleedout for 4 min while the killer does a map search for another survivor? Or just left to bleed out just because?
It's not like this is an everyday occurrence, but this does happen. Perks don't address it, they just lengthen the time. I'd vote for the quicker death/self kill option myself, because it's common enough that it should be talked about.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584809#Comment_3584809
Why did you prestige then??? Its literally JUST to show others. You have zero reason to do so past 3 on anyone other than show others. This is so disingenuous imo.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584811#Comment_3584811
I love all the 'facts' you're throwing out. "All it does..." There's literally zero value" Makes killers decide who they're gonna tunnel"
This is all personal to the player. Your facts are still just your opinion. Valid in some cases, but no. Not all.
I want to show off my p100. Not due to ego, but I enjoy playing my one character and I like people knowing its my main. There's nothing negative about that. I do like the toggle idea. If I choose to put myself at rick for all those pseudo facts you spat, why can't I? If lobby dodging is the issue, BHVR should fix that, not bandaid it by punishing other players. This is literally a killer problem.
"but leave it for end match so those who feel the need to show it off can get their dopamine release from others seeing their achievements."
Another assumption. You're so far detatched...
This is all personal to the player. Your facts are still just your opinion. Valid in some cases, but no. Not all.But valid in some cases is the important point.
If some players are using the displayed prestige level of survivors to lobby dodge or using that info to determine who to target, that's a problem.
Even if we say there are some players who like to display their prestige, the number of players impacted by even occasional lobby dodging, and the extent it negatively impacts the game, likely far exceeds that.
I want to show off my p100. Not due to ego, but I enjoy playing my one character and I like people knowing its my main.Not do to ego - like people knowing its my main. That sounds like ego.
Also, I have yet to see why the prestige being displayed post match lobby doesn't accomplish the same thing.
If I choose to put myself at rick for all those pseudo facts you spat, why can't I?If it causes a player to lobby dodge, it doesn't just impact you, it impacts everyone.
If it causes a killer to tunnel another player because of the prestige, it impacts them, not just you.
If lobby dodging is the issue, BHVR should fix that, not bandaid it by punishing other players.Lobby dodging isn't even on the table for a proposed change.
Also, lobby dodging is not the only issue, targeting players is still an issue.
This is literally a killer problem.There are also survivors who will dodge a lobby when they see a bunch of lower prestige. I've noticed this when I'm playing a 1 or 2 prestige survivor that survivors leaving becomes much more frequent.
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Did the mortal kombat and street fighter changes affect how everyone played the game? Reading up on them it sounds like it would not impact the game play in any way for other players.
Changing the volume of the chase music would be a game change for everyone. Stealth would be considerably harder around the killer, both for other survivors in the area as well as the chased target trying to escape the chase via stealth.
Changing the blood color would be a buff for everyone. Spotting blood trails will be easier for some people depending on their eyesight, but it is also a skill part of the game. I run the Wraith addon to make blood brighter, not because I have any vision issue connected to it, but the blood trails on some maps/areas are difficult to see by design (which they should be).
except for there are perks that absolutely kill stealth play already, I hate having to rely on ultimate weapon but I've noticed it has helped quite a bit.But that's what perks do, they give you advantages in the game. Survivors are supposed to be able to hide and the killer has various ways to try and locate them. UW is useful for finding survivors regardless of the player. Not to mention that the survivors have perks and strategies of their own to counterplay against it.
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@just_one_player said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583448#Comment_3583448
There is a difference between skill ceiling and killer power , and I explained in the post what was defined as complexity, i dont will explaing again because it's was very clear. Freddy has a complex power and low skill ceiling, Blight has a simple power with a very high skill ceiling. You treat the skill ceiling as complexity, which is not wrong, complexity could mean many things, but it differs from what I defined in the post, so you argue about something I didn't write. If what you meant is that what we need is more killers with a high skill ceiling, I completely agree, but I reiterate that this is not what I defined as complex in the post.
"The most popular killers tend to fall in this category: easy to pick up, very hard to master." That's why I wrote that killers with simple powers are the most popular, but I disagree that the most difficult killers are the popular ones, popularity encompasses both killers with simple powers and a simple skill ceiling, such as Legion and Wraith; but also those with simple powers and a high skill ceiling, like Blight and Wesker.
i dont will explaing again because it's was very clear.The standard of communication is whether other people understand your words, not whether you thought they were expressed clearly.
Multiple people are struggling with the categories you have created and what you are dubbing 'complexity'. You seem to be making a distinction between killers that have multiple powers, and killers that have a single power but learning when to use it is tricky. If you'd just called this 'multiple powers are a failed design' it probably would have been clearer because that's really different than complex.
So if we look at killers with more than one power, or who power varies during the course of the game we've got: Knight (one summon, but three types), Clown (two types of bottle), Pyramidhead (ranged attack, ground trap, cage), Pig (crouch, trap), Singularity, Nightmare, Twins.
The first three types of killers all have decent pick rates, they've definitely given a lot of attention to Pig over the years just what they've decide to do has confused the player base, Twins has issues and no one really knows why it has taken BHVR so long to address those, so that leaves Freddy and Singularity. There are plenty of other killers down there at the bottom of the pick rates/BHVR attention which are very straightforward. So you don't really have enough data to create a trend.
On the edit of the original post
Edited: many are pointing out that unpopularity is not synonymous with failure, which would make a lot of sense if it weren't in the context of a company. If a product is unpopular, the company will not pay due attention, which in my opinion cannot be considered something that is not a failure.On 'due attention' - some killers work well, even if not popular. Artist doesn't need a major look because the killer works. Same with Cenobite. Lots of killer players don't care for Singularity, but the ones who play him seem to think he's really good.
And as long as a portion of the player base likes to play a killer, and the survivors don't hate the killer, then BHVR is probably pretty happy with the result.
Also, if your theory is true, shouldn't Wesker/Blight/etc be getting much more frequent touch ups than they do? They're still calling hug tech a bug and how long has it been around?
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3580600#Comment_3580600
Or, or… it’s made an optional setting.
What's the point of being able to show your prestige to players in the pre-game lobby? The problem is clear: lobby dodging - what benefit does having it entail?
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The way addons work for both survivors and killers. Taking high level addons feels like I made an unfair game. I love the concept of being able to vary up how to play, but really dislike that some addons are just vastly stronger than others (and not in a 'oh, the devs messed up' sense, that they were designed to be stronger).
Also, any non-bloodpoint offering. Not as common, but if I hit 4 survivors spreading out the hooks it just feels silly.
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Just because a killer isn't popular doesn't mean they are a failure. If some players enjoy the killer, that's fine, especially if those are players who didn't like other killers.
I don't see how Artist is that complex of a killer. Going off the idea that Freddy is a complex killer, I think the only killers that really fall into a similar category are Singularity and Knight, and the latter does fine on pick rates.
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I think its more of an issue of the killer falling back into normal pick rates. There was a ton of people playing at first release, which is normal, then once the novelty wore off it just became another killer option.
I think that's just the arc of killers - at release everyone will want to give the killer a shot. After a few weeks some people will decide they don't care about the killer, others will put them into their killer rotation, why a few will make them a main.
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As others have said, there are so many different factors:
-how long would it take to chase someone else? Are you by gens you are defending?
-does the survivor seem to want to be chased?
-after stunning you is the survivor heading to another strong area?
-is the survivor wounded? would catching them eliminate them from the game?
-what killer are you playing? Getting stunned and losing distance impacts killers differently.
Etc.
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Its an elimination game. As long as that is an element of the game, trying to remove a survivor early will always be a primary strategy.
Low MMR hell is a huge problem for the game. The balance of the game is built around survivors doing some working together, when that doesn't happen the game becomes incredibly one sided. If one survivor is being tunneled there are ways to play around it, but the survivors really need to know what they are doing to have a chance.
If you are consistently being tunneled, one question is why are you being targeted. The killer doesn't know you from the other survivors, he has no reason to pick you specifically unless there is a way that you make yourself more vulnerable than the other survivors.
My recommendation when its clear you are being tunneled, learning to be a god looper isn't going to work, instead learn the map and go to the areas that the killer doesn't want to be. If you're two hooked and no one else is, go hide in an area away from gens. The killer will waste time looking for you and will eventually need to start chasing other survivors. If you are hard tunneled off hook, head as far away from the gens as you can. You can put the killer in the position that if they want to tunnel you they risk losing multiple gens to do it.
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@Lobos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3581525#Comment_3581525
No, a punishment for playing with Friends would be nerfing or removing SWF. They already have a comms/information advantage. Adding comms for Solos doesn't hurt friend groups at all.
The emote/chat wheel is for all players not just solos..
Almost every multiplayer game has a voice chat with mute options and it works just fine. (This game will never be worse than old Call of Duty lobbies.) You mute and/or report troublemakers. If they get mad and throw the game because of that they are immature and the outcome of the trial would be exactly the same as it is right now..
Almost every multiplayer game has a voice chat with mute options and it works just fine.There's a couple of huge differences though between DbD and other games and its not the issue of harassment.
1: If you're playing a symmetrical game, voice chat balances itself out. If everyone on both teams uses chat, or no one on does, it doesn't require you to make any major balance changes to the game.
DbD is different, the killer has no one to voice chat with. Adding voice chat would be a buff to survivors which BHVR would balance around (not to mention making a wide swath of perks irrelevant). That means those survivors choosing not to use voice would now be facing an even harder game.
2: It's worth pointing out that for some regions of the world where players of different languages are matched together frequently, the feature wouldn't have as much use. This could result in kill rates dropping in the US, impacting the overall numbers, leading to balance changes, creating a skew of game difficulty for regions of the world.
3: It would be a fundamental change in the gameplay. I don't get why some people like playing SWF, the callouts seem to ruin all of the excitement of what makes survivor fun to play. DbD isn't like 'every multiplayer game' - its unique, that's the appeal.
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There's a few problems.
1: The killer doesn't have the equivalent of exhaustion. The devs don't need to worry about Dramaturgy being stacked with Sprint Burst, because outside of very rare builds, you take only one exhaustion perk. So you're comparing the strength of Drama to other exhaustion perks, a killer equivalent could be combined with anything.
2: The killers are different. Hindered doesn't bother a nurse, quicker power recharge is irrelevant for some killers, etc.
3: Harder to play against for the survivors. As the chaser, the killer is more likely to see the dramaturgy get put into play, meaning they can see if a negative effect occurred they can try and exploit.
That said, if I was putting one it, I'd time it off generators and mostly base it on vision perks. Every time a gen was completed a random effect occurred. Aura reading (either for or against), survivors scream, blindness, etc.
Also, everyone has a line on how much randomization they like. If game's were decided by the killer's dramaturgy rolls it would be pretty annoying.
One feature I thought of was what if it gave the killer random addons. But then I thought why have that as a perk, that would just be a cool game mode (would need to take out the bloodpoint boost addons and probably balance how they were picked, but I'd play something like that). Could also be cool to have a mode were the killers addons change during the game, but that might be impossible given some killer addons only apply at match start.
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@mca240 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3579371#Comment_3579371
My proposal would be: people in a premade are not allowed to share perks or items. So only one people can bring Adrenaline, another can bring a medkit. So not 4x adrenaline or 4x a medkit for example. This would them less overpowered.
I think this goes to one of the issues with "nerfing" SWFs. Even if the above was done, I doubt it would even impact SWFs that much. Some of the best teams already put restrictions on themselves and it does very little to balance things if they play public matches.
Which brings up a problem with nerfing SWFs. If BHVR implemented something and it didn't really weaken them, it would just upset everyone. Killers would be upset that they were still outmatched, and SWFs would be upset they had to play under a new set of rules.
I think its probably impossible to solve, especially now. Maybe if when the game was designed it came with the idea of 'if you play with friends, X becomes true' people would have accepted it, but you can't have that now.
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I don't think Skull Merchant is a problem any longer, but its going to take awhile for the idea of how bad she was to fade away. Even though I enjoy playing against her now, when I see the Skull Merchant its still a reflexive 'ugh' feeling.
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Aura Reading is way more comfortable to use and, most importantly, it does not alert survivors while screams doIf a killer has multiple aura reading perks, they can also deplete all of distortions stacks. Calm Spirit completely neutralizes Ultimate Weapon.
A visual cue for a very short duration (0.3 seconds) to let the player know that their aura started being read by the opposite side.What? Why?
As you said, one of the main reasons to take aura reading is that the other side doesn't know their aura reading is being read. Ultimate Weapon notifies via the scream, but it also inflicts a blind, can disrupt heals (Sloppy), totems, or a lucky gen break, and it only takes a single perk slot.
This idea would also promote and reward deeper game knowledge. Opinions?Why would we want to promote people with thousands of hours having another advantage over newer players.
"I memorized all of the perks, my aura was revealed as I moved across the map, a gen was just completed so its probably dark sense, that means there is likely a survivor 24 meters ahead of me".
I don't want anything like that.
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Can't even remember the last time I saw him in my games. I saw more Twins than Singu, no joke.That's just the way random probability work. Both Singularity and Twins are down toward the bottom of pick rates. When something only has a 1 to 2% chance of occurring unless you play 1000s of games keeping track, it's going to be difficult to tell the difference between Twins 0.83% pick rate and Singularities 1.48% (Nightlight's current stats for them).
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Massive nerf. Probably deserved, but a huge nerf.
Right now, you could slot MFT into the first perk slot and 3 random perks and still get a lot of value out of it. The perk now requires other perks to work.
The only viable perk it works with is DH. That means you lose the value of MFT before being hooked, you lose the value of MFT if you mess up/the killer baits out the DH, you lose the value of MFT if you successfully DH and the killer drops chase and you mend.
@Iron_Cutlass said:
Ive seen very mixed opinions on the Made For This changes; many people believe that it got gutted while other people believe that this perk is basically just the same if not stronger than before.
What changes happened to Made For This?
Made For This is having it's 3% Haste effect tied to having Deep Wounds; but the "Does not activate while Exhausted" effect is being removed.
I think Made For This is realistically going to hold the same position it had before, it wasnt uncommon to see people run Made For This with Dead Hard; before the changes, youd have 3% Haste and an extra Health State from the Endurance; after the changes, youd have an extra Health State from the Endurance and 3% Haste after.
I also think that anti-tunnel perks may come back into the meta seeing how tunneling has always been an issue for your average player; Off The Record will be used a bit more and Decisive Strike will be used to reset Deep Wounds for Dead Hard, all while Made For This provides a nice 3% Haste in the background of everything.
Realistically, I dont think Made For This was nerfed, I think it was simply just reworked and/or tweaked, but it's strength will roughly remain the same considering the new synergies added and old synergies removed.
I also think that anti-tunnel perks may come back into the meta seeing how tunneling has always been an issue for your average player; Off The Record will be used a bit more and Decisive Strike will be used to reset Deep Wounds for Dead Hard, all while Made For This provides a nice 3% Haste in the background of everything.You can run that build right now and it be considerably stronger than it would be with the proposed MFT changes.
Right now, you get MFT before being hooked, you DON"T with the new design.
Right now, you get MFT immediately after the new hook, you DON"T with the new design.
Right now, you get MFT after the OTR, you now do with the new design, no change.
Right now, you get MFT after the DS, you DON"T with the new design.
Right now, you DON'T get MFT after the DH, you do with the new design.
That is three scenarios where you lose MFT to gaining one. That would be a nerf right there, but its so much bigger than even this shows. You lose MFT on the first chase, which is the most important chase of the game. Big nerf. With this build, you can only pull DH off a maximum of 1 time per game (the one after the DS), so the build design is weakening this perk.
And if the killer decides to tunnel any of the other survivors, your whole build has zero value.
If you are not hard tunneled (which OTR makes harder for the killer to do), the killer expects the DS, or you manage to loop them for more than 60 seconds, the build loses most of its values.
People wanted MFT nerfed into the ground. BHVR agreed. Take the win.
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3577282#Comment_3577282
Well I can argue that it WILL happen at some point, not even will - it must.=)
As I said on the other thread (a little different): "The gaming industry not standing still and making improvements to it's engine. Successful games should follow the time and do the same."
Why it would divide playerbase? They can basically make a completely the same gameplay wise game but with better graphics and much easier code. Wouldn't players just go there?
(I mean Death Garden was a completely different game, it doesn't even felt like dbd)
Dbd is "somewhat" ok with the time being, but not for long imo.
Well I can argue that it WILL happen at some point, not even will - it must.=)This really depends on your timeline. I think DbD still has a lifetime of 5 to 10 years. The game will inevitably die, that is inescapable, but its got a ways.
Maybe by the time it does the creators will just sell the rights to a different company and who knows what will get.
Why it would divide playerbase? They can basically make a completely the same gameplay wise game but with better graphics and much easier code. Wouldn't players just go there?Because people would need to buy it, and some people won't do that (the alternative is switching to a FtP model, which, yeah, that has problems of its own). I can see the threads now of people complaining about paying for a new base game because BHVR is greedy that they expect their players to buy a new game that is just a repeat.
You also talked about carrying over skins and licenses, which every player would like and expect. There are two problems:
1: Legal issues. Its likely that the licenses only apply to DbD, not any future successor. So the idea of just letting players keep their licenses is outside BHVR's control.
2: Financial reality. A complete code/graphics overhaul would require lots of work on the cosmetics. It would seem crazy to consider this from a business standpoint without the possibility of a return.
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On the original post, the things I'd hope for are a continuation of the lore of the game. Otherwise, I suspect DbD 2 would look substantially different from the current game. Like we're no longer talking about things like generator speed and side objectives, we might be talking about whether those elements would even remain in the game. If they get to the point that they decide to do a DbD 2, I'd hope they'd rebuild the game from the ground up. Keep the general concept, but look into entirely new ideas on how to do it.
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@Krazzik said:
I see quite a few different killers commonly referred to as 'boring to go against' and I wonder if people really do want more diversity in the killers they see in games.
People complain about so many Nurses, Blights and Weskers but when other killers are buffed or even just talked about in general, people complain about them too.
I've seen Twins, Hag, Trickster, Skull Merchant, Knight, Onryo, Legion, Artist and Pinhead all called 'unfun' to versus quite commonly, and I've also seen Wraith, Freddy and Plague pop up a little less commonly in such discussions as well.
It's hard to take people seriously who beg for more viable killers when so many of the other killers are so unpopular as well. Less Nurses and Blights would mean more Knights, Skull Merchants and Tricksters after all.
Why are so many different killers so hated?
People complain about so many Nurses, Blights and Weskers but when other killers are buffed or even just talked about in general, people complain about them too.Why are so many different killers so hated?Why do people like different flavors of ice cream?
Every human being is different. It's easy on the Internet to lose track of the fact that you are seeing the opinions of different people, not a collective group. Everyone has different likes and dislikes. For any idea you could come up with, there will inevitably be some person who wouldn't enjoy it. That's normal.
Yes, people want diversity in killers. That doesn't change the fact that each individual has killers they dislike playing (for various possible reasons).
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@TheMruczek said:
I have encountered a certain group of Survivors, twice.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BC6NFCV83PGD/zrzut-ekranu-2023-11-04-021745.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PI44IDTJA3PE/zrzut-ekranu-2023-11-04-023554.png
Pre-dropping pallets, 3 insta heals, hold W, MFT and SB, map offering and yet even with Sacrificial Ward you go to Mother's Dwelling.
Camping won't really work, they will just sit on gens. Good luck with tunneling considering how they have so many insta heals, couple of bodyblocks or pre-drops, they are fine and you don't have anything that elevates Xeno's strenghts like you have with A-Ring or speed add-ons for Blight.
Got called a clown twice.
I'm confused, do i just go and main Blight now? Or Nurse? Do i now have to use NOED?
Without seeing videos hard to say what could have been done differently.
But playing against a four man SWF is hard, on a survivor side map is hard, them having sweat gear is hard; put those all together and its an extremely difficult situation. For most players though this circumstance is pretty rare.
On a wholesome note, because I'm currently very tired at first I thought they were recommending you play Clown, which seemed weird to me, but at least I thought it was a suggestion.
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Nerfs were justified. While I think many who complained about the perk overestimated it, no doubt it was a strong perk.
It's been nerfed into the ground. It may still see some use in dedicated anti-chase builds, potentially still have a place in 4 person SWFs, but its lost a massive level of value.
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CoB is basically an info perk for gen defense. If you have a killer that can get to gens quickly it still has a place (not meta or game changing, but usable). It would be nice if it also triggered on great skill checks.
OC depends on the quality of survivors you hit. Low MMR its a killer, but by a certain point survivors will hit those skill checks no problem.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575950#Comment_3575950
Survivors will either trigger it by body blocking or by using OtR. If they don´t use DH, they can use literally every single exhaustion perk. Where previosly, you couldn´t. Because you had to choose between MfT or SB/Lithe/Background player. Each one is a strong perk. Just like MfT. You will be able to combine 2 Strong perks and have both advantages. Sure, not 100% of the match. But a perk with that pick rate, usually would have gotten a harsh treatment. Not a slight nerf, that allows it to keep the full potential, while also allowing it to combo with other high-tier perks.
Not a slight nerf, that allows it to keep the full potential, while also allowing it to combo with other high-tier perks.Okay, at least you've gotten to slight nerf, but let's look at the rest of the scenarios and why they aren't practical. I'll start with general gameplay then move onto tunneling scenarios.
Because you had to choose between MfT or SB/Lithe/Background player. Each one is a strong perk. Just like MfT. You will be able to combine 2 Strong perks and have both advantages. Sure, not 100% of the match.We're not even close to 100%, I imagine we're much closer to zero present.
Let's take sprint burst.
Scenario 1: killer comes, survivor uses sprint burst to get away, to get any value out of MFT they now need to get a heal in, while injured, the killer to hit them and not the other survivor, within ten seconds (which should work at most once).
Scenario 2: While injured, pull off a heal, get hit by a killer within 10 seconds, you now get one massive sprint burst and then have MFT. Of course, being you just ran all the way across the map, the killer might just follow the other survivor you healed, meaning you have to mend and lose MFT.
These aren't just realistic. To get to these conditions you have to A) already be injured B) find a teammate to heal C) be right in the exact window of having enough time to heal the other survivor, but still be within ten seconds of a killer. Then hypothetically you could put together a Sprint Burst and a MFT.
Though if we're imagining that players have such amazing timing, they already could do this. Run MFT and Lithe, use MFT to the maximum value you can, then pop Lithe. While I doubt anyone could pull that off regularly, it's more realistic than the above.
Survivors will either trigger it by body blocking or by using OtR.So this only works in a 'I'm being tunneled' scenario. Which means you only get possible value on two hooks stages instead of three and if the killer doesn't tunnel you (or they just wait out the ten seconds if no OTR) the perk has gone from getting constant value to none. If you're not being tunneled, no value.
Even if you pull it off, we're now talking running 75% of the perks around this one scenario, just so on two potential chases you get MFT with the potential of still throwing in a Lithe. Except, right now if you ran OTR and MFT, you get the MFT before and after the hit, meaning the value you potentially get from a Lithe you already get right now without having to use an additional perk slot.
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People will go back to running the other exhaustion perks, absolutely, but they aren't going to be pairing them with MFT. SB and Background Player make no sense, Lithe potentially could get some value but requires specific circumstances and even then is still weaker than what survivors have right now. We might see some DH/MFT users, but again its a weaker version of what DH/MFT exists right now.
This isn't just a nerf, it's a massive nerf.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575471#Comment_3575471
Ok, lets say you use MfT, OtR, DH and DS. Its a anti-tunnel nightmare for killers, where he has to hit you 4 times to down you after the first hook. Instead of having the speed boost before DH, you now get it after DH = more distance for DH.
Mixing MfT and any exhaustion perk before the "nerf" would be pointless. You can´t use SB, Lithe or Background player with MfT right now. But after the change, it will be possible to have the best of both worlds.
Ok, lets say you use MfT, OtR, DH and DS. Its a anti-tunnel nightmare for killers, where he has to hit you 4 times to down you after the first hook. Instead of having the speed boost before DH, you now get it after DH = more distance for DH.Let's compare both worlds, right now vs the proposed with this exact build.
You get unhooked: right now, you have MFT, in new world, you don't.
You take a OTR hit: right now, you have MFT, in new world, you have MFT.
You get downed and DS: right now, you have MFT, in new world, you don't.
You pull off a DH: right now, you don't, in new world, you have MFT.
That means over that chase period, you've gone from having three situations with MFT to two. And this presumes a hard tunnel, if the killer is not tunneling you're right back in the situation of avoiding conspicuous actions to get value out of the perk. This is on top of other major issues like losing MFT before the first hook stage, you only get one DS (meaning you can only pull this combo off one time), and that you have to successfully pull off the Dead Hard.
It's a massive nerf.
Mixing MfT and any exhaustion perk before the "nerf" would be pointless. You can´t use SB, Lithe or Background player with MfT right now. But after the change, it will be possible to have the best of both worlds.So it's possible to use MFT and a non-DH perk together, but now you're relying on pulling off a heal while injured and the killer swinging into it to get a deep wound (or running against a killer with a natural deep wound attack to get any value out of it). I highly doubt we'll see this combo.
Will we see some people run DH and MFT together, yes, but I think it will be a pretty rare combo.
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@jamally093 said:
So it's obvious you will auto-die on hook if your the last survivor right? Well...what if the exit gates are opened and/or hatch is still active. Shouldn't you still be giving the chance to escape prompt? I get it's a waste of time because 4% and killer can just down you again but I mean you gain haste and endurance now so shouldn't the chance to escape still at least be a thing? I bring this up because a match can go extremely smoothly and I wasn't hooked once then all of a sudden I'm hooked and my team decides to leave me.
Shouldn't you still be giving the chance to escape prompt? I get it's a waste of time because 4% and killer can just down you again but I mean you gain haste and endurance now so shouldn't the chance to escape still at least be a thing?It would make the game worse.
Killer downs you near the gate. Instead of throwing you on the hook, they now walk farther away. Boring.
Let's say they can't get farther away and you pull off the 4% and get a free escape. That's not really a fun experience for the killer (I say this as a person who defends the 4% in other cases).
Not to mention, for killers who really want to win, if you are downed far away from hatch, instead of taking the chance you have deliverance / 4%, they just leave you to bleed out.
I bring this up because a match can go extremely smoothly and I wasn't hooked once then all of a sudden I'm hooked and my team decides to leave me.Part of the game is the tension that even if you play great for 95% of the game, you can still have it snatched away from you at the end.
That's one of the points BHVR gets the horror theme exactly right.
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It's been a great feature. I've had no games where the killer just stood in front of the hook, proxy camping allows a lot more play, and I have yet to see this 'weaponized' in a way some people worried about.
Numbers might need to be fudged a little, but I say give it a few more months of testing before discussing that.
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@Ariel_Starshine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575630#Comment_3575630
Thank you for explaining it to me :) Yeah it seems not worth using, maybe in clutch situations but dejavu is better it seems...
Yeah, deja way outclasses it unless you are in a SWF who can be pretty certain that you'll be in multiple situations were it will get used.
I will say, as a survivor who used to run Prove quite a bit and now rarely does, there will be games where you'll have one gen left to do, everyone's on death hook, three of you are working on finishing the last gen, and you're cursing the fact that none of you have prove for those extra few seconds. That's an emotional feeling though and the numbers though don't really justify it.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575624#Comment_3575624
Well, to be clear, I don't really care about pickrate, I care about strength. So, most of the perks on your list there definitely don't qualify; Eruption and Circle of Healing, for instance, are still extremely good perks regardless of how many people actually run them.
For the rest, I'll cop to forgetting about Scavenger and Thana (I honestly forgot that Thana got changed after 6.1.0 to begin with), but the rest I don't think it's fair to say were killed. Prove wasn't good to begin with, Reassurance joins Eruption and CoH as extremely strong, Dead Hard is still decent, and CoB... I suppose you could count that as a perk that was 'killed' if you're really strict, but it's not like it's useless, just outclassed.
That's kinda why I ask. I keep seeing people say that, but there haven't really been any instances of perks being nuked outside of Thana and arguably Scavenger if you count PTB changes. Most of those perks are either still good, or weren't actually good to begin with in the case of Prove specifically. (Still weird it got nerfed, that change still doesn't make sense to me. Must be a rare case of nerfing solely based on feedback.)
It's the same with MFT, too. That one did get weakened more than some on this list, based on this dev update, but it's hardly looking to be useless. Just requires a little thought now instead of being passive and slapped into any build.
Even Thana sees quite a bit of use and with Legion can be a good perk.
With Prove, I wish they had just taken the bloodpoint bonus off and then evaluated how many people were still using it before any changes. Not that the 5% change makes a huge difference, but just silly to change both at the same time.
That said, I feel like MFT has taken a pretty severe nerf, maybe on the level of CoB (which isn't a bad information perk for a teleporting killer, but otherwise was wrecked), but we'll see if it actually stays with the current design post PTB and how people play around it.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
What if I use prove and deja vu with a another survivor who has deva ju also?
I'm going to do my best here with DbD math.
The way this would be calculated is (1 [base charge] + 0.06 [deja vu] + 0.1 [prove thyself]) * 0.85 [penalty for two survivors]
Simplified 1.16 * 0.85 = 0.986 charges per second or 98.6% efficiency.
So that means with two people you are adding 1.972 charges to a gen per second, it should take ~45.64 seconds to finish the gen.
On the other hand, if the two deja vu users were split up, they'd be adding 1.06 charges per second and taking approximately 84.91 seconds to finish a gen.
So in a purely perfect scenario, it would take two survivors working together ~90.28 seconds to finish two generators, while two survivors on different gens with deja vu could get it done in ~84.91 seconds.
Of course, its not always a perfect scenario. Against a killer with pain res / pop, getting gens finished is worth a lot more than just progress on gens. And certain gens are worth prioritizing. Not to mention, once four gens are completed, getting progress on multiple gens is good to pressure the killer, but otherwise unnecessary. On the other hand, grouping up on gens makes it easier for the killer to disrupt you and is less efficient.
@Ariel_Starshine said:
Then doesn't this make PTS useless?
It takes two survivors ~52.94 seconds to finish a gen w/o prove. It takes ~48.13 to finish it with prove. So its worth about 4.8 seconds.
It's not a great perk, but those seconds can make a difference in certain circumstances.
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@Tsulan said:
I really don´t get the "its a bad patch for survivors" vibe.
MfT now works while being exhausted...
Please, take a moment to let that sink in.
It now works with DH, OtR, and all the perks that cause exhaustion. So as long as someone is able to hit the DH or get hit with OtR, it now is even stronger than before.
So DH for the higher mmr players and OtR for everyone else. MfT is still as effective on all mmr ratings. If not stronger.
So DH for the higher mmr players and OtR for everyone else. MfT is still as effective on all mmr ratings. If not stronger.The idea of 'as effective' or especially 'if not stronger' is absurd. Nerf MFT if you want, but this a massive nerf.
MfT now works while being exhausted...Please, take a moment to let that sink in.This doesn't make sense.
MFT never prevented exhaustion perks. You could get in a chase with a killer, get hit, have MFT, pull of a DH, no longer have MFT.
Now it's get in a chase, get hit, pull of a DH, now you have MFT.
The difference, and why it's a massive nerf: you can't DH/OTR before being hooked, so that's 1/3rd of possible hook states where this doesn't apply, you now need to pull off a condition for it to be viable (i.e. a successful DH), and you can't do anything else while having MFT but be chased. You can't jump on gens while in deep wound, if you have OTR you can't do an conspicuous action, you are totally dedicated to seeking out a chase. Not to mention, you have to run some other perk to get realistic value out of it which was never required before.
This isn't even like the DH nerf were by making it rarer as a pick it was easier for survivors to pull off. It's just a flat nerf.
And maybe its justified, but let's not pretend about what it will be.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574626#Comment_3574626
If survivors are waiting too long for a game, that should be a giant clue that the killer role needs more quality of life improvements, so that more people would want to queue as killer .
My survivor queue times have been terrible ever since the Survivor HUD happened, literally non-stop 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, even when there are 100% survivor incentives… except for the first two days that Xeno was released. And the anti face camp update made my survivor queue times even worse. And this Halloween event made my survivor queue times even more worse than that.
And I’m still not sure what is even happening here. Is my survivor MMR so abnormally high that the DBD is having issues finding other survivors in my MMR range? I see the survivor incentives at 100%, often enough to assume there are a lot of killer players on my server -=*somewhere*=-.
Why aren’t the survivor queue times a hot topic on these forums? Are most people ok with their survivor queue times? Are most people getting decent survivor queue times? Do most people hate the killer role so much that they’d rather suffer through garbage survivor queue times, than ask BHVR to give killers some quality of life improvements so that more people would queue as killer more often?
Why aren’t the survivor queue times a hot topic on these forums? Are most people ok with their survivor queue times? Are most people getting decent survivor queue times?My survivor que times are usually instant.
I pretty much always play whichever role is getting the 100% BP bonus, which is about 75% of the time survivor. My experience, killer or survivor with 100% BP, is matched in under 30 seconds, with every now and then (1 out of 5 or so) this jumping to 1 to 2 minutes.
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A thread were I agree with @Reinami and disagree with @Pulsar - feels different
I will say the idea of banning for hook suicides is wrong, they just shouldn't be a thing. This is like players bringing weaker perks, it would be hypocritical for BHVR to put something in the game and then there be any chance of players being penalized for it.
The could just remove hook suicides. Which honestly, if hook kobes never existed, would the player base be thinking 'it sure feels like something is missing.'
Or they could just remove them early in the match.
Or, if they really wanted players to have an out, they could make it an actual policy. If you are on the hook, you may DC. I wouldn't like that policy, but then we'd at least know BHVR is okay with it instead of having this backdoor DCs are allowed which punish the other survivors even more than a normal DC.
Whenever possible, if an activity in the game is something that just shouldn't occur, it shouldn't be an option. This won't solve all possible issues, but it would be an easy solution in this one.
Real Life Disconnects: No one disagrees that there are reasons you may need to leave a game. This isn't just video games. If I was meeting people for dinner and they called off at the last second because of something more important, well that's life. That's why the DC penalties have increasing stages.
Medical Issues: There are certain games that trigger my motion sickness. It sucks, especially because when I was young I didn't have motion sickness and there are games I'd love to play. I stop playing them. If they could make the game more accessible without impacting other players, great, but no one should have their experience reduced for me.
It's like Rollercoasters. I used to love Rollercoasters but can't ride them anymore. It's annoying, but if you are able to enjoy Rollercoasters, wonderful. There are plenty of other things I can do.
On You Can't Make People Play: You can definitely encourage them to. In my experience, when I rescue someone trying to suicide, they usually resume playing the match. Sure, some refuse, but most people when actually put into the game, play it.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574617#Comment_3574617
No, no. I'm personally ok with any 4 perks, even selfish ones like Left Behind.
I don't want to be matched with anyone player running a build that literally won't work. For example: No Mither, Self-Care and For The People.
I want everyone to use whatever perks they want. Emphasis on USE.
The build I just described eliminates the ability to use the perks
Frankly, the game should just let them know they're not compatible and not allow it. I don't see the game allowing me to add toolbox charges to my medkits and flashlights. Same should go for perks. If it did, this thread would be irrelevant.
I don't want to be matched with anyone player running a build that literally won't work. For example: No Mither, Self-Care and For The People.How frequently does this occur that people run perks together that are literally useless?
Serious question, because I've almost never seen it.
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Your English is quite good.
In short
1: Anything that happens outside of DbD falls under that platform. So if the person is misbehaving on Twitch, report it to Twitch.
2: Hateful speech in the end game chat can result in a ban, though from what I understand it takes quite a lot for BHVR to move on this but I don't know how they decide the issue on other language regions. If it happened in DbD a report could help, but if it happened on Twitch, its a Twitch issue.
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10ish minutes, give or take a few. I've been in a few games that went to 20 and were still good, but they are a rarity.
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I've always been confused by BHVR's stance on this. We have one method of getting out of a match with a built in penalty system, and another method of getting out of the match that is perfectly fine. What's weird is that with the bot replacements the latter "approved" method of leaving a match actually hurts the "team" more.
Like, I think, most players I'd really like this to be looked at. I don't want players penalized if seven minutes into a match they want to get out (at that point its usually because the game is decided or you actually have something to do away from the computer), but I do if they leave within the first few minutes. I'd like either of the following
A) Make hook escapes impossible early in the match (the first few minutes or first few hook states) barring perks/anti-camp mechanic.
B) If BHVR really wants to give option people to leave, give them a free DC button while on the hook so at least a bot stays in the game. Not my preferred choice, but I'd take it.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3570191#Comment_3570191
I see it used with Huntress Lullaby. But is one dull totem eventually turned into Pentimento so that you can break the perk? I thought the whole point of Hexs was that they were high risk high reward because they can be taken away?
The risk/reward of penti:
Risk - unfortunate totem spawns means it might require a detour to activate it and if in an unprotected area survivors can cleanse it again really easily
Additional risk, survivors can just ignore hex totems entirely and then this is a wasted perk slot.
Cost - takes multiple perks slots to be made effective
Reward - The level 1 ability cripples the ability to do gens. Don't worry about 2 through 5, as long as you have a level 1 the survivors are severely hindered.
Against some survivors, they won't recognize penti, which means the survivor who cleansed the totem and should go back to it is off doing something else, requiring the rest of team to spend a lot of time searching the map.
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The vast majority of times I see people complain about Blight, its the addons.
@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569314#Comment_3569314
then new players should be tested against new blight players. and casual players should be compared to casual blights.
in both cases kill rates will plumet. ive seen casual blight they cant land a hits all the time properly and new blights dont even know how to rush
your logic is comparing 2 spectrums of playerbase. the issue for you would be unfair matchmaking ratheer than blight himself.
then new players should be tested against new blight players. and casual players should be compared to casual blights.The problem with this is that its not how it works out. People blame MMR, but at least here its not the issue.
How long does it take to pick up a killer if you are completely new? Outside Nurse, play a few games, and you should have a general idea of their powers. It will still take a long time to master, but you can go from new to okay pretty quickly.
However, survivors have to learn counterplay for every killer that is out there. Over a survivor's first hundred games they may see Blight 2 to 4 times and still be uncertain about counterplay. If a player puts a 100 game into the same killer, they've probably learned the mechanics quite well.
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@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569737#Comment_3569737
You’re saying if you’re being tunneled off hook to run the killer to a dead zone? I’m confused how this helps you in any way.
Think about what is going through the killer's mind.
You get unhooked and run toward a dead zone. If the killer does not see you run in that direction they are less likely to check that area because there are no gens to defend. If they do see you, they now have to pursue you at the cost of putting themselves farther away from the gens.
But there's more than that. When they down and put you on the hook for your 2nd state, you're now in the dead zone. This is critical to avoid being tunneled. If you get hooked near where the gens are getting done, you're practically inviting the tunnel because the killer is almost certainly going to be in that area anyway.
If you're hooked away from the gens, the killer now has a lot of ground to cover to tunnel you, then still make it back. This gives the rescuer time to heal you, plus makes it much less likely the killer attempts in the first place. It also makes it less likely the killer will proxy camp, because the killer can't both camp you and defend gens.
Unless you are an elite looper, Windows and MFT are bad strategies to avoid being tunneled (and if you are an elite looper, you want to be tunneled anyway). The killer is going to catch any non-elite looper, especially if they don't give them time to heal. The idea is to put yourself in positions where the idea of tunneling you is extremely unappealing.
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I'm a dedicated survivor main who generally believes this game is much too nice to killers, but with the survivor HUD you can avoid tunneling off hook relatively easy. If there isn't another survivor being chased when you are unhooked, get away from the hook. Sure, they might still come to tunnel you, but you have time to create distance towards a deadzone where chasing after you is a waste of their time (far too many survivors run towards the gens were the killer is all too happy to chase). As the unhooker, don't unhook until you see another chase started or the killer actively move far away.
If the killer is proxy camping, that's more annoying because unless you are in a SWF its hard to communicate, but wait until the very end of the hook state to unhook and hope the other survivors stay on gens.
Also, Off the Record. Even if you lose the endurance the aura hide and quiet effects remain.
If you find yourself unhooking a lot, bring We'll Make It for the very fast heals.