cluelessclaudette
cluelessclaudette
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I think I'm a pretty successful spirit/wesker/michael. I don't play Trickster but this update made me decide to try him.
He.Is.So.Slow. SOOOO painfully slow. I can aim cause I play FPS games but the corners and walls just really mess with that to the point where it feels like very high cost to play, and LOW reward (no pay off). Like busting my butt off with blades and not spamming them. Trickster is also virtually useless without the blades at this point.
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@Zuiphrode said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064353#Comment_4064353
They can't fix it except by switching away from P2P (which would require reworking the game's entire networking code) or by planting Africa local servers.
Na, this isn't true. Stop making stuff up. You can add a filter so you don't P2P with anyone more than 200 ping for example. It's not hard. I'm a SWE by trade.
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im just going to start leaving games if I get a killer with > 200ms
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at this point they really should just make her a separate killer.
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Trickster is fun but yeah, definitely not a powerhouse. I have pretty good aim and it feels satisfying ending chases with blades but on certain maps, you're just screwed. Running out of blades after a chase also sucks, and not being able to find a locker.
Also, please make Mina a separate killer. She needs more skins.
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I know, this is probably an insane request but it makes me sad Mina won't get additional cosmetics and isn't a full fledged killer. Please do the right thing and make her a separate one from the trickster. 😀
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Telling a paying customer to "just quit the game" instead of demanding a functional product is the ultimate white flag in a technical debate.
nah, now you're being a hypocrite. You introduced the "I can walk away from a GM in a chess park" argument even though you're ignoring the fact no one advertises their chess elo or asks before playing. People just sit down, get matched, and played. Sort of like DBD. You can walk away from DBD too, or you can mentally detach the game from your expectations. You can do that too right?
I did a google search and I see the issue. You think MMR system equates to fair and competitive match making. It doesn't. According to sources, BHVR's MMR system has a soft cap and like most online games - prioritizes latency and low match queues to get players into a game as soon as possible. If this game truly had a "fair" MMR system, you would see posts complaining about match queues and lobby wait times.
This entire thread is just a heaping pile of poor logic and asinine replies to people. Not even sure why SWE and logic is being introduced here. You don't need to have a formal debate to discuss how bad this game is. It's been known for years this is a super casual game with a weak MMR system.
I have close to a 60% escape rate on DBD's stats but I am still paired up with some pretty clueless claudette (SABLE) players. Match making is a joke. It exists but it's a joke. I'd suggest you spend your energy, mental stamina, and life outside of DBD. I don't think it's bringing you much joy given the anguish on display here from your writing.
Cheers and take care.
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@GhostRider1518 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4063142#Comment_4063142
You are conflating "total accounts created" with the "active matchmaking pool," and using the "casual game" excuse to defend broken architecture. Let's break down why this logic fails:
- The "Median Player" Fallacy
Yes, if you count every person who downloaded the game on Game Pass, played two matches, and uninstalled it, the median playtime is low. But matchmaking algorithms don't sort inactive accounts; they sort the active, daily player base. In a 10-year-old live-service game, 900 hours is absolutely mid-core .
You misunderstood me. By “a perfectly average, statistically balanced player” with my nearly 900 hours, I mean that I am an average player IN THIS SPECIFIC CONTEXT, in this specific game. Not about the entire gaming world This is a forum about DBD, a post about DBD, we are talking about DBD. It's like in football - I would be an average player. Not the worst on the school team, but not the best in the world or even like Ronaldo. Saying that I'm an average soccer player doesn't mean that I'm an average player in every game, in every sport. We're not talking about being an average player in games in general, but in DBD.
But let's assume you are right and 900 hours makes me a top-tier veteran. If that is true, why does the matchmaking system frequently put me against squads with 11,000 hours? Why does the system sometimes match me with players who have 20 hours of playtime? Since I'm a veteran and the system works, this shouldn't happen. If the system was functional, it would recognize that massive gap. The fact that it throws us together proves the soft-cap is broken.
- The "Casual Game" Excuse
You claim: "since when was DBD ranked or even meant to be Balanced? ... This is a casual game."
If Dead by Daylight is just a casual party game, why did BHVR spend massive resources to implement strict Skill-Based Matchmaking (SBMM)? They explicitly removed the old casual Rank system to force a hidden, competitive MMR rating onto the entire player base.
You cannot excuse a broken competitive algorithm by claiming the game is "casual." If it's truly a casual game, BHVR should remove the MMR system entirely and let matchmaking be random. But they don't. They insist on using an MMR system, which means as paying customers, we have the right to demand that the system actually does the math correctly.
If it's “just a casual game,” then why are so many players sweating it out and trying so hard? Why have this forum, why make these balance changes if it's “just a casual game”? The excuse “it's just a casual game” in discussions about balance and player selection for this game is really not a valid argument. In fact, it's proof of ignorance and disregard for serious problems. Following this logic, one could say: why bother with anti-slugging, anti-camping, and anti-tunneling if it's “just a casual game” and people will play a few rounds and then leave? At the same time, people who play DBD a little more want these changes. Why? Why bother? Who are these changes for? I'll tell you: for people who play it a little longer.
- The Park Chess Analogy
Your chess analogy actually proves my point. If I go to a park and a Grandmaster sits across from me, I can visibly see that I am outmatched, shake his hand, and politely decline to play.
If the game was never meant to be balanced, then why the balance changes? Why nerfs and buffs? Do you even know what's going on in these patches, or are you only interested in new characters? DBD isn't “ranked” because it doesn't have ranks, and that's also a problem. It does have MMR, though. A poor MMR, but it has MMR. However, complaints about MMR and “chess ELO” should be directed at bhvr, not me.
DbD's matchmaking system blindfolds you, glues you to the chair across from the Grandmaster, and hits you with a temporary matchmaking ban if you try to stand up and leave. Because the game forces us into these automated lobbies and punishes us for leaving, a functional automated sorting system (MMR) is absolutely mandatory to protect the player experience.
this comment made my day 😁
Yeah RE: Chess Analogy. Don't play DBD then. Your expectations will never align even close to the reality of the game.
You still didn't address my SWF argument. If this was a competitive game, SWF would be facilitated in game or SWF behaviour would be banned, but it's not. BHVR encourages it but doesn't allow in game SWF to happen.
- The "Median Player" Fallacy
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062310#Comment_4062310
It would take years to get them all done and it would probably take time & resources from other projects. And again, I don't think everyone shares the same opinion on whether the old survivors really need a voice update. The old survivors have distinct voices that would be sorely missed by a lot of people if they suddenly disappeared just so they could make them talk more. So it wouldn't be a net positive change necessarily.
Personally I don't like how every survivor is a yapper now, and I don't really need or want the old voices to be recast.
@dbd900bach said:
The devs have confirmed this will not happen. As in probably never. If a survivor or any character within the game never received voice lines, then they'll never receive any.
Trickster did hace voicelines previously so thats why he got new voicelines added to his original. Yun-Jin didn't so she'll never get any.
It would not take years to get it done. They remade the game on a new game engine, that took a year. You think writing some lines and getting some voice talent to say them takes "years"? What.
RE: Will never happen. That's fine by me. Then I just will never spend money on or play voiceless survivors going forward. Pretty stupid move by BHVR.
Considering the new survivor coming out next week is fully voiced by one of the saja boys (KPOP DEMON HUNTERS)….this is a SLAP in the face to people who buy cosmetics on old survivors. Guess I learned my mistake.
In before you say "BHVR got you cause you're gonna buy skins on the new guy", yeah see that's the thing - I'm just never going to buy a skin with real life money anymore. This little detail has lost me as a skin customer. I know I'm not even a drop in the bucket but that's fine with me. I'll vote with my (absent) dollars.
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I recently checked my official stats on the DbD tracker before BHVR conveniently decided to hide the detailed kill rates. I have around 900 hours total (roughly 700h on Killer). My kill rate was hovering right around 60%. I'm not a pro, I'm not a sweat, I'm just a perfectly average, statistically balanced player.
Not sure if this is sarcasm or what, but I think the MEDIAN DBD player has less than 100 hours played. Most people pick this up on game pass and play a few rounds, then leave.
MOST people don't even have 900 hours on a single video game outside of MMORPG and eSport players.
Third of all…..since when was DBD "ranked" or even meant to be "Balanced"? Freaking out over MMR in a game like DBD is like….complaining about some dude's chess ELO you ran into at the park. Does it exist? Sure? Does it matter? Nope.
People looking for some sort of MMR balance akin to Chess or League of Legends are disconnected with what this game is. Considering "SWF" breaks the game balance but BHVR also refuses native voice comms is a telling sign. This is a casual game. This post is not recognizing that inconvenient fact.
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One year later….
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@mooasis said:
the only time you would ever not want to recover automatically is because you didnt like a down and youre throwing on purpose which is horrible for the rest of your team. if you have a self pickup perk you still get to choose exactly when to activate it. no real agency is being taken away by this mechanic being introduced, its purely QoL
No, I just ran into this problem running Tenacity and Unbreakable, it wasted my one-time recovery from dying state. None of us were dead and my ally was going to pick me up.
So you are wrong.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Most of the older cast was done by devs/ex-devs, not professional VAs, so everything would need to be redone.
Would people actually still like the character they main if their voice was changed, especially if the performance ended up being worse than before? I don't think I would, personally.
Then do it. They can afford it.
If they can afford licensing ALIENS or the Cenobite, they can afford this.
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In 2026 when every RPG has fully voiced lines, this is not asking for much. It's even more ridiculousness they're adding more lines to the Trickster but not her.
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bumping this just once.
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another half baked idea by BHVR. Sometimes I think they don't think or do any sort of balance contemplation on big changes.
i've had killers work with the 2nd last survivor to out me out cause of this dog piss change.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828246#Comment_3828246
if i'm not being right in terms of people massively finding fun in winning games in easy mode, why are people failing to counter some of the most newbie stomper strategies that simply don't work against actually skilled players? Why do people want so many basekit handholding mechanics in order to counter those newbie stomper strategies?
you didn't address my counter arguments:
- you need another player to heal your health state, or unhook without the exception of a few things (self care isnt optimal) in this game
- unsafe unhooks occur even in "high MMR"
- Comparing single player difficulty with an asymmetrical 1v4 "casual" game is a hilarious concept
The game has nerfed decisive strike. BHVR has done nothing to reduce the worst tunnelling experiences or SWF and actively encourage it. Don't even get me started on SWF - that's completely unfair when the 3 survivors are on discord/voice comms
This game is developed with a casual mindset and that's how its played ultimately - casually. BHVR has not been able to balance it. Lastly, gate keeping the game and generalizing people as "newbs" with your dog scat office meme is really low class.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
I would like to give first part of my take with one meme:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1AEYSYE522SP/image-2024-10-26-163515802.png
some people are lost in the world of gaming described by this meme. Yeah, it's completely okay to play singleplayer games on easy difficulty, but at the end, you share the same goal with the person playing on hardest difficulty, you just choose different path towards it (aka. you still play to win).
Now here is the catch, singleplayer games are PvE and you can choose your difficulty and game balances around your difficulty preferences. Dbd is PvP game and you can't choose difficulty you will play on.
This part is where people completely lose sense for PvP games. This is where people expect either their opponents to catter to their fun and act like they are "easy" difficulty bots OR they expect game to be balanced around their sense of fun (make it as easy to win as possible without investing time into gaining skill). This is why these players love when game has broken and overpowered stuff they can abuse as a bandaid for not being able to use a difficulty setting because they want to WIN afterall.
Problem comes when you have opponents that use strategies that stomp this kind of players, or simply are skilled. They completely compromise these players from getting what they want, an easy win. This is why tunneling and camping are extremely effective in your very average dbd match, but are useless against opponents that actually have skill.
On the other hand, there are people that just literally wanna ruin your day. Killers that intentionally bleed you out with no reason, killers that keep hitting you on hook while camping, flashlight squads etc. Thanks god, they are a minority.
I play all my games on difficult. Elden ring, dark souls player etc. Theres nothing to balance out tunneling in this. If a killer wants you to have a ######### experience, you'll have it. Worse if your allies unhook you safely or dont heal. When recovering health states in this game can boil down to altruistic actions by other players (i.e. out of your control) then your fate is luck.
So your meme is sort of a dog scat tier meme in this argument.
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@Coordi said:
Hi! We wanted to confirm that it wasn't removed. The bundle only shows if you don't own part of it, but was mistakenly shown to some people who did for a brief period. Sorry for any confusion!
so any reason why this discount isnt extended to existing customers/buyers?
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824873#Comment_3824873
- smoke bombs that are actually very powerful
- killer being in a zone with no objectives where every 1s wasted equals to 1s per survivor on a gen
- strong tiles in void that make up for exhausted status effect
Can yall please ever try to understand core aspects of each side and what is the most important thing to do as each side before making such comments?
conversely as killer you can counter this by ignoring the realm completely except to get the haunt charges. if survivors waste time in the realm, thats wasted gen time. its no wonder this event is constantly 100-150% BP bonus to survivor role.
This event sucks, I know theres free cosmetics but it sucks. I'll be getting my free items and leaving the event immediately as survivor.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822833#Comment_3822833
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/F7LGXTQAJF07/image.png
well this bundle save you if you own both survivors is 1800 and both skin cost 1080 which together cost 2160 but the bundle is 1800 which is a saving of 360 auric cells.
so tho who got they chapter being rip off for being loyal customer.
Yup. I bought the Mikalea skin and now the bundle isnt in my game. So If I want to buy the sable skin I need to pay full price. Sort of a slap in the face to long term players.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822250#Comment_3822250
You can also see people taking video games more seriously than any other hobby extending an overly serious viewpoint to other aspects such as how to balance the game, people should balance for the top, etc which leaves out the reality of the situation; DbD is a video game that we pay to play. It's a hobby and while people who focus on it should take pride in their achievements these achievements are no more notable than any other hobby. As an example if I said I had a castle on Siege Perilous almost nobody would care, know what I was talking about or understand whether or not that was prestigious. Nobody who doesn't play DbD cares about anything in DbD and, if the servers eventually shut down, nobody will care about anyone else's accomplishments in a short period of time.
While people should take pride in their accomplishments in their hobbies it's healthy to keep in mind that those accomplishments are, in reality, about as consequential to your life as saying you're the best darts player at your local pub and looking down on new players or lower MMR players in DbD is as cringe worthy as looking down on a new darts player in your local pub (or the grandmother playing mini golf in your example).
People focusing on 'high MMR and player's skills!' are being unhealthy and acting like elitists in a casual game that has no actual bearing on their life other than entertainment value. And, unfortunately, having MMR has increased the number of people talking about 'high MMR' even though you can't even see the number or know where you stand.
I agree and I understand DBD is some people's "main" hobby but again with the game pass issue - theres a massive "transient" population of DBD players that come in and out. Sometimes their ONE AND ONLY experience is with "TOXIC MMR KING/QUEEN" which is quite frankly akin to your pub example - "lets ######### on the tourist playing darts visiting the UK" - it doesn't make sense and it kills the game. If the long term community keeps this up, the game will get a bad reputation for toxicity and people will avoid it.
I suggest they add a ladder system and have ranked/unranked matches. The ranked matches have severe consequences for leaving and give better rewards at end of season. But I suspect the playerbase doesn't exist for this and/or its just too hard to have a true ELO ladder in a 1v4 game.
Also, BHVR isn't exactly the most capable game developer. I do like what they've done but I've been playing since 2020 and I get the feeling the game surpassed their capabilities a long time ago. They missed the boat on making this game "Massive" a few years ago. Peak players peaked at 100K concurrency on STEAM in 2021 or 2022, it's never surpassed that and probably will never unless something drastic happens to the game.
Until then, DBD will squarely remain "janky desync huntress axe niche game" im afraid.
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the bundles are a joke. The reason why they remove is it because you see how "great" of a discount you get if you buy parts of it.
There's a SM+Huntres+vinyl figure bundle. I bought the SM skin and the bundled saved me 1 auric cell and gave the two vinyl figures for free.
I suspect its the same with the mik+sable bundle.
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Agreed.
unpopular opinion: taking DBD seriously or leveraging MMR for DBD is a bit of a joke.
It's like saying you've got high ranking in playing mini golf and shitting on the casual customers at the mini golf center.
I know I'll get counter arguments but hear me out….
- There is no official ladder for DBD
- DBD is not a big esport
- 99.99% of us playing it, are playing it in a casual manner
- Your MMR means nothing
- Also…remember this is played SUPER SUPER casually on console and is part of game pass. You literally have people in your lobbies that will never turn the game on the next day or week. Remember this. This goes back to the mini golf center. Imagine arguing with a 50 year old grandma that is at the mini golf center and won't ever play it again for the next 365 days until her nephews next birthday.
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@Lunareclipse_20 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817655#Comment_3817655
I dont think they have dropped a single killer in an 'OP' state in years. We've certainly had killers released in very strong states, like Chucky, but, even he is a much stronger killer now than he was on release, no where near 'OP'. I definitely dont think BHVR needs money because they have a paid for game that has NUMEROUS paid LICENSED DLCs that all have a large amount of paid for cosmetics that also has a very large and notable dedicated player base across multiple platforms. Youre a tad delusuional if you think they 'need money'.
I'm delusional thinking that BHVR, a company, wants to make profits?
What? Yeah, thanks for reminding why I should avoid going on these forums.
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the killers are EXTRA EXTRA sweaty in the mode and the smoke bomb is a joke. I play roles 50/50 so yeah I agree, its killer sided heavily when the haunt can literally down a survivor and breaks pallet stalemates. Its sort of a joke
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@xCakeStick said:
Don't you just love it, the killer is using Multiple Hex perks with the cherry on top being Pentimento in the background. Prepared to simply end the game in no matter than minutes, or even seconds. No, but seriously, like when one single thing goes wrong and suddenly they're all oblivious they're doing nothing for a while to prevent us progressing. Even when the cleanses come through, you see the Pentimento text come up and added to the game, makes you wanna cry knowing how this is gonna end if you didn't remember where the notifications came from, or those survivors go back and cleanses it. I've had a game where they're all looking for Ruin, out of all Hex perks in the entire selection. I don't see a real reason to cleanse a Hex totem or find the Hex unless it's Blood Favour or Devour Hope, anything else can be tolerated through the game with concentration and if you pay attention whilst doing objectives outside of chases.
some survs run perks based on cleansing totems. so relax, not everyone is you
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@Prometheus1092 said:
Maybe don't hide and just do the gens? Avoiding gems is a reportable offence
I was doing gens. I had the highest score. The other survivor got downed so i went into the locker waiting for the killer to hook them but then the trolling commenced.
Riot games can automate punishment for trolling League of Legends. Pretty sure you can do it here. Basically the report system does nothing. Yeah sorry but I'm done with this game. I've spent probably over $100 on cosmetics but idc, its not worth my time with the trolls
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between this and the unpunished trolls, I think I'm done with this game. gonna ask steam support to remove it off my account.
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this is pretty much impossible given BHVR. Riot can barely do it for Valorant and they're a AAA full fledged studio with money. They're still working on theirs.
I doubt BHVR can do it but they can prove me wrong. But given how they work on the game I just don't think so
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BHVR needs money and OP Killers SELL SELL SELL!
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yeah im all up for removing the drones. Keep them to cage the survivors or something but as "cameras" they need to go. They rob the killer of power in the kit. They dont do anything now either so they're useless
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shes trash. I want refunds on her skin. her kit doesnt make any sense now. just feels like clunk. M1 lady with a claw
Maybe actually have a kit that rewards skill?
Maybe remove the stealth?
Shes still just as annoying to play against but now even worse to play AS
Shes a complete failure on BHVR's end for development and balancing. She needs a complete rework and possible re imagining of the kit
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SM nerf was too much. At this point shes not even fun or a challenge to play. I play all the killers but main Spirit, Myers, SM, Oni, and Plague.
SM right now feels like myers but worse. When you down someone, you don't even feel good. 1/2 the times I get a down its cause I caught them off guard in stealth mode. This isn't fun and doesn't reward the player for skill.
When I down a survivor as spirit in 10 seconds or less, it does feel good cause I out played them so hard. Especially if its a mind game M2 hit or I phase out and slash instantly.
SM? its like….pop out useless drones and run around like a tier1/tier2 myers now. Its pretty sad. I was going to buy her skins but whats the point now. Shes not fun to play.
I'm okay if she was underpowered and FUN. But she is underpowered and BORING
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@fussy said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RYMGE1GEC7KQ/agagjf.png
Please tell me it's Artist skin and I'm gonna cry bc my girl will finally have dark scary outfit 🥲
Somehow I missed it on stream.
edit: its artist
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Finally, you guys decided to give good looking cosmetics to survivors. The previous designs for Yun Jin looked like discount apparel at Old Navy.
I still can't freaking believe you guys passed up on Vampire Hunter / Lady Yun Jin and went ATHLESIURE. It's like your design team hates sexy or something -
this is your ego hurting you.
also total hours don't mean anything. you said it yourself, you're a baby killer.
i used to be top rank killer and I could phase in/out as Rin and just snipe people. I literally downed survivors in 10 seconds or so in high ELO a few years ago. I quit and now I struggle to get 4Ks. I have 500~ hours played prob? Means nothing.
You need to play a few games to calibrate the SMMR. Also, maybe it's just a skill issue. Have you ever considered that?
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807190#Comment_3807190
I wasn't gonna respond further since I didn't want to escalate anything further than I may have unintentionally already done, but since you've called me out:
I can call something crappy or bad game design and not be upset. Its possible to be objective about something.
You dont seem to understand what objective is. You can of course call something crappy, but without objective argumentation, your statement is a subjective opinion.
"really crappy game design. crappier that its tied to the rift pass (paid product)." is an subjective opinion, not substantiated with fact. You need actual arguments and evidence for it to be objective, and if you are truly objective, you would be open to debate and argumentation from an opposing perspective to help define truth. That's what objective is, it has nothing to do with how you "feel", it's trying to define truth.
Your stats seem wrong. I doubt gates open 50% of the time.
Stats are stats. They are only as good as the evidence you choose to ignore, but since the target average kills per game is 2.4 from BHVRs own postings, then gates open at least 40% of the time. Given you can not have 2 people escape without the gate open and Nightlight shows we have 48% of games ending in a 2k or less, that shows a 50% gate open rate on average for all players.
This is a set of objective arguments, it's not "I think", my arguments have evidence and facts that have informed my opinion. The quality of that evidence is debatable since Nightlight is a community project, but that's the point of objective argumentation, you scrutinise the logic and evidence for its validity, but your conclusions must be drawn from fact not feelings.
Annoyed enough I gave up on this trash challenge. I played 5 games today and they have been gate escapes with 3 people. One person dying before gates open.
I even considered not opening the gate one game so the killer would kill the chase and then open the gate. See how this is bad game design? The challenge is encouraging me to literally troll the game.
You anecdotal experience still has value, and some statements here are useful. Your killers are obviously struggling quite heavily with being unable to secure a single hook at end game.
It is not unreasonable to say that something where you are forced to play in a way antithetical to your objective is problematic design, however unfortunately all we can do here is compare anecdotal experiences... but survivor being hooked at end game with the team needing to decide if they wanna make the save and reset is not a rare phenomenon in my experience... and the fact you keep reaching end game but the killer can't get a down seems to suggest you and your team are playing exceptionally well against less successful killers.
btw anytime someone has to say:
I'm not being a jerk my man
usually more often than not, they've been a goon in some manner or fashion enough to annoy someone.
And lastly to address this... we are communicating via text. You cannot read my inflections, my body language, my facial or audio cues in order to read intent, nor can I do the same for you.
You started this thread in a manner that suggests you are kinda volatile and quick to anger. I have a taken a different opinion to you, I'm not trying to annoy you, but I wanted to disagree, somethimg I have a right to do... but I knew there was a very real possibility your anger/frustration gets turned on me.
Me saying "I'm not being a jerk man" is not the result of me being a goon, it's me trying to defuse an argument before it happens, though clearly thats been in vain.
In any case. I disagree with your statement. I think this challenge is fine. Sorry you've had bad luck with it, hope you manage to get it in the near future.
You need to realize not everyone wants to write a thesis on a video game forum. I'll just say your "style" of "discussion" is hardly "objective".
Since you insist though.
This challenge requires a safe unhook after gates open. We can derive some empirical observations from this,
- This is one of the few challenges requiring certain circumstances that are not prevalent in every match, i.e. gates opening or another survivor
- It also requires that someone be on the hook while gates open and that you unhook. Too many scenarios to list out but this requires 2-3 people plus the killer
- The chances of this happening every match is no more than 50% due to win rates and the "setup" required. I'd guess drastically lower than 50%
- This challenge is not skill focused like the other challenges, it is heavily heavily dependent on circumstances out of the players control
- This requires more time due to "bad luck" scenarios for players and reaching gate opening
- To increase the chances of the above circumstances, as a survivor, your only recourse is to "troll" the game (delay opening gates or leave someone on the hook, then open gates, not heal someone after all generators are created)
- There are no positive actions as a survivor that you can do to increase the chances of the circumstances besides opening the gate
- all other actions to increase the likelihood of an unsafe hook after gates opening require you to troll the game
From these empirical observations, the average player attempting this challenge (and other feedback in the thread) have mentioned this causes "toxic" behavior. Other gate related challenges for the killer and etc encourage players to play the game in such a way that the developers do not want and would constitute as "trolling".
I'd argue this challenge brings a negative experience to the tomes, conflicts with the spirit of the game, and feels very counter intuitive to the words "Master challenge". This amounts to the developers disrespecting the customers time and money as well. This is a negative experience on a video game that is supposed to provide entertainment. The author understands entertainment varies from person to person, and some find harder challenges to be entertainment. I strongly reiterate and emphasize that this challenge has timed rift shards that is tied to a paid product (Premium Rift Pass). I only have two survivor challenges left and I am not nearly done the rift pass. This forces me, the customer, to play the game in a way that is not fun or optimal. It also leaves a poor impression of the rift pass and tome challenge experience. It's led me to the conclusion that I should not purchase anymore rift passes in the future, and reevaluate if spending time on DBD or the BHVR discussion forums is of any "entertaining" value going forward. I'd strongly recommend the developers to reconsider these types of challenges going forward, or they risk losing paying customers.
Lastly I'd like to add, someone's anecdotal experience on "I got it on my first try" is a strawman argument at best and irrelevant to the discussion. It's comical to think that everyone else in the community is getting this on the first try.
😀
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806677#Comment_3806677
I'm not trying to be a jerk man... just I don't see why this challenge is so difficult, for all the reasons I described at length in my post using objective reasoning, and I offered some suggestions and points of play to help out that worked for me... and has worked several times before with these types of challenges.
You may say my anecdotal experience doesn't matter, but by that same token, doesn't your anecdotal experience also not matter, since it is being used as your primary evidence for why this kind of challenge is a problem element of the game that should be forever removed?
I'm not trying to gas light you, gas lighting is using psychological manipulation tactics to make you question your own sanity or powers of reasoning... I have merely disagreed with you, which a totally different thing.
This is why I asked if you were tilted, because none of us are immune to tilt; we all play far worse when we get tilted, and what's worse is we don't even realise we are a lot of the time. I actually have a rule with my friends that if they can hear that I'm tilted they have to quote a certain line from AVGN at me to snap me out of tilt and remind me to take a break.
I asked because you've blown up out of the gate in this thread, started throwing statements around like "really crappy design" and "how often do survivors even open the gates?" like this challenge is impossible, when the reality is far from....
For example, taking the latter statement, Survivors must open the gates any time there is a 2k or less... we can obviously still get 3ks and 4ks while the gates are open, but for simplicity let's assume that all 3ks and 4ks are hatch games since this favours your argument. In a 2k scenario there is a reaaonably good chance another Survivor is hooked and savable.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZKX7Z83FY0PC/screenshot-20240924-175839-firefox.jpg
If Nightlight is anything to go by, the gates are opened in the absolute worst case scenario 48% of the time...
You may have been exceptionally unlucky but if we assume you have a 50% chance to open the gate and a 50% chance to be one of the 2 survivors alive. That means you should get a chance 1 in every 4 games. In 6 hours you should have had close to 20 games or so... which means you should have had close to 4 or 5 chances to get it... and this is using worst case scenario stats...
So I'm not being a jerk my man, but you're clearly quite upset, maybe justifiably if your luck has been that bad. I myself have gone on 10 games losing streaks before, and that happens in any game. Howeveri t may be beneficial to take a step back and think objectively what's gone wrong with your games, and really consider if this challenge is as hard as it appears.
naw not upset. I can call something crappy or bad game design and not be upset. Its possible to be objective about something. Your stats seem wrong. I doubt gates open 50% of the time.
Annoyed enough I gave up on this trash challenge. I played 5 games today and they have been gate escapes with 3 people. One person dying before gates open.
I even considered not opening the gate one game so the killer would kill the chase and then open the gate. See how this is bad game design? The challenge is encouraging me to literally troll the game.
btw anytime someone has to say:
I'm not being a jerk my man
usually more often than not, they've been a goon in some manner or fashion enough to annoy someone. keep going into feedback discussions and keep derailing discussions and discounting others experiences, and then saying "I'm not a jerk". That's some seriously funny ######### 😀
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@UndeddJester said:
Sorry to be that guy… but you're referring to this?:
Last Minute Hero
Safely unhook 1 Survivor after the Endgame Collapse has begun.
Are you sure you're not tilted and just need a break? I'm not trying to be an arse at all… but this isn't even hard to do… I did it in pretty much my first attempt, and didn't even blink when I saw it in the list….
Any game where you get gates powered with more than one survivor alive you can do this… and is certainly not uncommon to have multiple survivors alive at end game. Its a 60% kill rate afterall, you'll get a game where you're there at end game with more than 1 person alive, and you can easily just throw yourself at it to get the unhook… take No One Left Behind, Overcome and Borrowed Time/Babysitter, maybe PlotTwist/Self Care to make sure you can be fully healed, and even if the killer finds you after opening gate, unless they are an instantdown killer, they can't stop your safe unhook.
99ing the gate is rarely actually required in most scenarios, and tbh, is probably not a good idea a lot of the time. Just opening the gates is the safer move so that you can't possibly screw up the sprint to the exit, and you still have 4 minutes to make the unhook… Blood Warden is possible, but it's far from common enough to realistically worry about.
Accounting for more than one player, any player with an ounce of intelligence against the killer will wait for you before they go for the unhook, as you need 2 to pull it off successfully. You can even exploit that and just open the gate, and again instead of doing it the correct way (take a hit and run while your ally unhooks), just run up, tank the hit and unhook raw. Whether you escape or not doesn't matter if you want the challenge done…
Honestly I find the iridescent badges harder to get… it doesn't seem to matter how much you do of specific actions, it seems to boil down to "dominate the game" to get either 3 or 4 iridescents or you get none… no in between.
EDIT: Now 2 hooks after end game collapse has started in the same trial… That challenge is a swine… I had to take Artist and keep the whole team injured on death hook and then keep a player slugged at all times until they powered the gates so I could down a player, open the gate and then get my 2 hooks. I let the other 2 go as an apology.
yeah you're definitely being "That guy" right now.
I've spent 2 days (close to 6 hours) trying to do this and Ive set up my perks to ensure its done safely. Nothing. maybe dont gas light other peoples experiences based on your own anecdotal experience.
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bump
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3008428#Comment_3008428
Because reworking them doesn't mean they stop having stealth properties. What i'm saying is their stealth properties alone aren't enough.
What is GF's power? Being undetectable and stalking survivors. What is his weakness? He's not undecteable at all, losing TR and Red Stain doesn't mean they can't see your body from far away, if they see you then what's the point of not having TR or RedStain? They already saw you....What good is stealth when that stealth isn't real because stealth killers are the mercy of wich map they play, at the mercy of that maps rng, at the mercy of spawns, what good is a stealth killer if he spawns on top of a hill or a machine that can be seen across the map? If they see you spawn then it's gg EZ baby killer.
Only Wraith comes close to true stealth but Wraith needs to get slow and get visible in order to injure survivors so again what good is stealth when it doesn't lead to anything?
GF doesn't get 1 shots because of stealth, he gets them because of STALKING. Myers doesn't get 1 shot downs because he's stealthy he gets them because he STALKED, and for a long time.
To STALK you need a line of sight which means they can also see you and run away. SO You're not being stealthy and stalking, you're doing 1 or the other. And while you're stalking someone else can see you cause you can't account for everyone's location all of the time. You can believe you're alone stalking some survivor and another survivor ends up sneaking on you and just reveals you.
Plus against an SWF there's no stealth, as soon as 1 survivor sees you, they all know. In that scenario how good is stealth?
I'm giving you the scenarios and these are very frequent as to why stealth doesn't work. Stealth killers can't be just stealthy, they need more, much more. Myers, GF, SADako, WRaith need major help. They're simple M1 killers with a power that doesn't benefit them.
SADako's TP is slow, survivors can turn it off, and she has nothing else = M1 killer. GF has stalk but it's faster to reveal him than it is to stalk, has nothing else = M1 killer. Myers starts slow AF and he is gigantic, has no stealth, corn maps? goodbye stalk. Tier3? Comeback Mechanic that only happens if you stare at survivors for a really LONG time. Mori? ONly if you find the dumbest survivors on earth and possibly the universe, = M1 killer. Wraith? has to trade everything to be able to attack = M1 killer. Pig? Her slowdown is RNG, stealth is the slowest thing ever, Dash isn't very usable, = M1 killer.
Do you see a trend here? Stealth doesn't work so give them another tool. GF's add-ons got reworked and most of them are this: After the Survivor is Marked .... How are you gonna Mark survivors if you can't aproach steathly because stealth is a myth in DbD, how can you stalk when it's far easier to reveal GF than it is to stalk? How are you gonna mark people if your cooldown is massive everytime you are revealed?
His add-ons aren't any better. They all involve doing the hardest part already. What's more rewarding than getting the stalk? I want the 1 shot not extra effects on top of the 1 shot. If i one shot them then what does it matter if they were exhausted or if the gen regresses? Those only apply under specific conditions AFTER i've done the hard part. Just let me stalk without having to be stealthy.
A real stalker doesn't need to hide, he can be stalking you in the open, in front of everyone. Myers can stalk whenever but GF needs to use Stealth to STALK? What kind of backwards thing is that? If he gets revealed then he loses both stalking and stealth...
You're right, the game is poorly designed but it's not an esport game. So not sure why you're expecting League of Legends level of gameplay nuance and balance.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3007261#Comment_3007261
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MW02G9E6CTBS/image.png
I've played her extensively, planned on maining her for a while until I realized that I wasn't doing it wrong, she's just...bad.
The point of my silly analogy is that she's barely a stealth killer, because all she really gets is crappy phasing. Hell, Pig, Hag or VM Myers with Monitor are more consistently 'stealthy' than she is.
The actual stealth aspect rarely comes into play with any consistency, as by the time you're close enough to start approaching your lullaby has given you away, and if it doesn't they can see you a fair ways away, even with the addon that reduces it.
All she really has going for her is sustained mobility, which itself is gimmicky and RNG reliant.
How is she less stealthy than Myers? She's literally invisible until you manifest or get too close. Even with Wraith, you can see the entire screen blur with his weird crunchy noises.
I fully understood your point, your argument is just non existent and very weak.
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3007070#Comment_3007070
If i didn't like them i wouldn't be here writting about it, i just wouldn't play them. I care and i like them but the game is not designed for them to work and it's far easier to change them then it is to change the whole of the game for them to fit. What's the point of stealth killers if they lack mobility, they lack pressure, they lack chase. They can't even stealth right cause they're far easier to see than survivors are.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3007156#Comment_3007156
What good is a stealth killer in an open map where everyone can see you? How good is a stealth killer if he spawns on top of a hill where everyone can see him spawning? How good is a stealth killer whose power is stalking when he is much easier to stalk and reveal than survivors are? Who's the real stalker then?
How good are stealth killers when they have no way to move around quickly, when they have no special abilities to deal with loops? Every stealth killer is an M1 killer and even SADako is a ######### killer, not just a ######### stealth killer. Wether you like the characters or not is completly irrelevant to how they are designed and how they perform. Stealth killers are in the bottom tiers for a reason. THEY DON'T WORK cause the game is not designed for stealth, it's designed for chases and to be in a chase you and the survivors must be seeing each other, seeing eachother completly dismantles the concept of stealth. You can't find 1 person alone without getting spotted, grab/1 shot/ chase them and expect that the other 3 survivors don't see or hear anything.
Even GF's Nightshroud in chases ends up being useless most of the time cause there's cracks on the walls everywhere so survivors can see the direction you're going and then avoid you. And they can just sit in a corner and know you're coming while you can't see them because of the 3rd person perspective.
Every match is comprised of moving parts so if you can't control movement, which you absolutly can't, then you can't be stealthy. And even in the best scenario where you can quickly and quietly down a survivor and hook them, sooner or later you're gonna be exposed, they will pay more attention, they will see you, you will have to go somewhere where they can see you and if you don't go then you're telling them go ahead do your business in those areas without pressure. Stealth killers don't work cause they have to expose themselves and they are very very easily exposed and spend most of their time exposed and they lack any other form of pressure, except for Pig but Pig still has to work her ass off to get pressure so again what good is Pig's stealth? Not very good.
The fact people do good with certain bad characters doesn't make the characters good, it makes the players good. Call me a bad player all you want, but that's not the issue, the issue is stealth does not work in DbD and stealth based killers don't work because they are based on something that doesn't work.
Do you honestly think that Gf is terrifying because he is stealthy or is it because he's able to strike anyone anywhere at anytime? Does that sound like stealth or mobility? To me it sounds like mobility. Does stealth help in mobility? YES IT DOES HELP but STEALTH IS NOT MOBILITY. How manny GF's exists in the movies? Multiple, how manny in DbD? 1! How can 1 guy be anywhere at anytime without MOBILITY?
EVEN with Mobility, you're still not guaranteed anything, look at Wraith and SADako, Wraith is a beginer killer, easy to pick up and easy to master but not much progression. He can move fast and he has stealth yet why is it that he's still not that high up in power? Because he trades all of that to be able to do anything...He needs to give up his two strongest aspects in order to attack. Without stealth and without Speed he sucks at CHASES, that's why even Wraith with Stealth and Mobility is still not a very high rated killer.
Why are the best killers the best killers? BECAUSE THEY ARE OPRESSIVE IN CHASES. Nurse, Old Spirit, Old Billy, Old Slinger, all were strong because they were opressive in chase. GF and Myers aren't opressive in chase, neither is SADako, Pig or Wraith.
The prefered method for Stealth Killers, the Hit & Run playstyle doesn't work aswell and why? Because the moment survivors understand what you are doing they will just not care, they'll just gen rush even harder and you won't be everywhere at everytime to stop them. You can't juggle 4 people as an M1 killer without insane mobility. Nurse is an M1 killer but her mobility surpasses the game itself, that's why she's the undisputed Top of killers, and always will be.
Why you think people don't bother healing against Legion or Plague? Because those killers get easy injures but not easy downs. Unless Plague drinks from a fontain her only options is to M1, the green puke will never down you. Why heal against LEgion? IF he's in Frenzy you have nothing to fear, and even after the changes to his base kit he is currently BUGGED so even the 5th hit down with Frenzy isn't working. Point is Legion needs to be an M1 killer in order to down you. M1 killers suck in chases, why you think Legion isn't a high rated killer? Despite Legion's moderate mobility, he still has to trade mobility for lethality. Old Spirit and Nurse and Blight don't trade they opressive power for lethality, they get both. They get by pretty well on any map while majority of killers do bad in almost every map...
i think a lot of people enjoy Ghostface, Myers, and Sadako. They could use some tweaks or buffs.
Just because a killer is bottom tier does not mean people are not having fun. Not every killer has to be "S+ TIER". Not everyone is playing like it's MLG or DBD Twitch finals, some people just wanna have fun.
You can write a wall of text on this but I enjoy Sadako in her current form, she could use some power tweaking and shifts but its fun. I main blight and spirit, and I sweat on those two.
*shrug*
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annihilating TTV swfs with Sadako. it's great.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3007200#Comment_3007200
Who...said Sadako was a stealth killer?
That's like saying a Honda Civic is a 'fast car'. Compared to a bicycle, maybe. Compared to an actual fast car...lol.
....what....??? have you even played Sadako?
her demanifest (M2) makes her stealth up until a certain range.....sort of like every other stealth killer. No killer is 100% stealth.
I've been in lockers when stealthed Sadako walked by, you don't get the sound alert and she bleeps in and out fast.
Please don't comment unless you've actually played her
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@ausanimal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3007163#Comment_3007163
So because it can't pick up stealth killers it's it's now a useless perks now, Even tough there is only a few killers that are stealth killer and there is a reason they are called stealth killers.
spine chill should not counter a killer like sadako. I mean if it does then thats news to me and I should quit playing Sadako and go back to spamming Hubba face camp.
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sounds like entitlement
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@lemonsway said:
Stealth killers don't work. DbD isn't meant to be played like that, it's a lesson anyone who has played stealth games learns very easily with DbD.
Consider these facts: Survivors have smaller characters than killers thus their exposition is inferior when compared to killers.Third person Perspective gives survivors an advantage to look over objects, denying the fact killers can hide their presence, as such, abilities like Nighshroud, Pig's Crouch and any other stealth ability aren't very viable cause their visibility is assured to survivors but taken away from the killer. As easily as a Survivor can crouch in a corner or next to a barrel and killers won't see them. Survivors are the stealth killers...
Why do Stealth killers have TR and Red Stain? Those defeat the purpose of Stealth. Since having TR and Red Stain is NORMAL for every killer the moment a stealth killer loses those it's a MASSIVE WARNING for survivors.
Just imagine IF GF's weapon was PH's Great Knife... would that make sense for a stealth killer? No it wouldn't, so neither does all the PAINFULLY OBVIOUS WEAKNESSES they have.
Rework Stealth killers.
Nah, you don't speak for me. I wish downvoting was a feature but your post is ugghhhhhhhh no
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Two Scenarios really wjhere I will camp (I ram rank 3 on both roles)
1) In the basement and its a toxic SWF. It's funny watching them move heaven and earth trying to save their friend. Sometimes the SWF's greatest strength is their weakness. They won't let someone go
2) I have zero kills and the gates are powered. It's the logical thing to do. The survivors have every option to just leave and give me one kill and take their win. 90% of the time they won't and will try to save someone. I've turned this into a 4K once. I got flamed but again, you can take your 3Survivor Win or try. If you fail, it's really not my fault....