bunnyfengenthusiast
bunnyfengenthusiast
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319741#Comment_3319741
Yes, i play roght now as knight.
And im telling you how to counter me. If you dont want to use that, dont do that, but do not throw arguments from the hat.
If You see Knight using his power you can see where path is going and at any time you can just run away, especially that he cant move indefinitely. Do not enter dead zones, and do not stare at knight charging his power while near the palete since its a dead zone at this time. Just run away and he is forced to chase as m1 killer, move away of the tile where his guard is and he has no power.
Fam, I also have the Knight and I've played him quite extensively. I'm not just pulling my opinions out of a hat and some second-hand experience. I've played against him extensively as survivor, and AS him. My Knight is at p10, and his optimal playstyle is incredibly boring to go up against and to play as. Dropping a guard instantly literally can't be reacted to by a survivor, assuming you managed to zone them to the unsafe side of a pallet/tile so they can't just hold W away. You can guarantee hits at every tile if you zone correctly and put down a guard, and you can do this with minimal effort; which is the primary motivator behind my hatred of this killer.
@Vicarious said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319661#Comment_3319661
You are the only person I have ever heard praise Bubba, that's wild... I'm glad you enjoy the game so much lol
I'd prefer to go against a Bubba than a lot of the cast. Sure, there's a chance I'll get facecamped and hit on hook, especially if I loop him for a long time, but Bubbas never ever drop chase, I love that so much about them.
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319665#Comment_3319665
You know that knoght do not see you while creating a path? If you see him using his power, just go to another tile, and thats it - you caountered his power entirely. Until time of his guard is over he CAN'T use his power again, and if he do, they you just move to the next tile. You dont need to use palletes if he is using his power, and he became just m1 killer worse than a trapper since you always knows where his traps are.
You do realize that his power functions like Spirit, where he can hear and see indications of where you are (grass moving etc.), yes? If he puts it down right, he is guaranteed to aggro his guard on to you, which means all he needs to do is path properly (cut you off) to ensure a hit. It doesn't matter if you run to a different tile, if a guard is chasing you, holding down W is the only thing you can do, which means you're effectively not looping, and if he paths properly, he guarantees a hit.
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@Dark_Alex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319212#Comment_3319212
Is it because running around in circles doesn't work against him?
I will tactfully keep silent about the fact that all killers with standard speed suffer in such situations. Being able to drive a survivor away from a strong construct is the Knight's primary advantage, but this does not make this character too strong.
No, it's because once his power detects you, and activating his power takes very little input from him, you are guaranteed to take a hit assuming he doesn't screw up. It's like a dumbed down version of artist. I never said he was too strong, I said he was the worst killer to go up against. Artist can shut down loops also, but Artist is actually engaging to go up against, because any hit she lands with her birds is due to her input entirely. If she shuts down a pallet/loop, you can try to bait out the bird and force a whiff, or you can try to circle around it, OR you can even just hold down W away from the loop. Thing is, it's all on her to place her bird correctly, and there is counterplay.
Knight, on the other hand, only has to put down a guard at a tile and cut you off from the other side. It's a mind-numbing playstyle, and it's not engaging to play as, or against. It gives too much reward for very little effort.
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@Vicarious said:
He's my favorite to play against, and he's pretty fun to play as too! His strategies are pretty simple and fair. He struggles on some maps and excels on others. Easy mid-tier killer, and it's adorable how much negativity he gets when there are killers like Cenobite, Cannibal, Shape, Plague... I'm always excited for this guy!
Cenobite? What is the issue with Pinhead? Cannibal? One of the most fun killers to loop in the game. I love how Bubbas never drop chase. Myers? Really? Myers without Tombstone piece/inf t3 is a pushover. Plague? You mean M1 killer that wastes most of her time trying to puke on you while you greed every pallet in the game?
Maybe you just haven't played against a Knight using his power optimally.
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@fussy said:
I am very surprised how many people think he is bad. But judging by the streamers who think the same, a lot of people absolutely do not understand how to play for him.
Personally, this is the most chill killer for me, I rest while playing for him. The favorite part of playing for him is that you don't have to loop every pallet and building.
Yes, he is not a S or A tier, but he is, perhaps, a confident B tier, but certainly not the worst killer in the game.
You evidently misunderstand what I meant when I said worst. I didn't mean worst in the sense that he is bad to play as, I mean worst as in he's the worst to play AGAINST.
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@WesCravenFan said:
Why does this need a fix?
Slugging for 4k is a way to bypass a game mechanic (the hatch) by forcefully extending an unwinnable situation for the last survivor and essentially playing hide and seek with them for 4 minutes in the hopes of securing a meaningless 4k. It's pathetic, and boring to play against.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317765#Comment_3317765
Im using the Engineer toolbox with both charge addons because thats the one which the highest burst for putting charges potential as it puts 2 charges per second and altough it lasts less time is the one that can speed up a gen before you get there to interrupt, since that example was using Built To Last I ignored BNP as the perk doesnt regenerate them, I know a Toolbox with a BNP is the biggest timesaver on gen progression but then you shouldnt pair with Built To Last because the charges you regenerate arent worth the time it takes to do so.
That entire post was related only to the perk and its interactions with toolboxes unless the perk has changed and regenerates BNPs using both is a detriment. Are you telling me you see Built To Last often? Because I see it maybe once per day and not always with toolboxes.
Engi toolbox is not the best in the game by a long shot. Commo is; both in terms of how much raw time it shaves off a gen, and in terms of how long it lasts (more skill checks). The anecdotal experiences of how many times either one of us sees BTL has nothing to do with the fact that toolboxes are absolutely busted when combined with certain setups.
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@HommeBizarre said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317560#Comment_3317560
Balanced? Shack is in the middle. You always get in the basement if the killer wants to
That's crazy, you mean the map is mostly consistent?
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Drop chase and ambush the survivors that are cranking out gens instead of overcommitting to one chase.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317665#Comment_3317665
A good Toolbox shaves 8 seconds of a generator, if you put +12 charges addon it goes to 14 and a brand new part it adds to a total ~31seconds, it can only happen once per match and if the gen doesnt get completed before you get there in the current meta the progress is going to disappear rather fast.
They make the game harder? Of course, they are supposed to help the Survivors, do they make it hard enough that seeing 2 toolboxes has to be a lobby dodge? Nah, Ive dealt with Engineers+BNPs enough times to know they are not that determining, the only generator that matters is the last one.
Where do you get these numbers from? Because they definitely don't come from DBD, the game we're discussing. The best toolbox possible is a Commodius with a BNP+12 charges. Commodius alone holds 32 charges during which the gen is repaired at 50% extra speed. Those 32 charges are therefore consumed at 1.5c/s (as opposed to the default 1c/s) in about 21.33s and give 32s of progress to a gen. The time saved from these charges ALONE is 10.67s. With a +12 charge addon, the time saved is bumped up to 14.67s. A BNP alone repairs 22.5 charges in 5 seconds, saving 17.5s. Toolboxes also carry an inherently higher chance of skill checks. During the 19.55s that you're using the Commodius box on the gen, let's say you get one skill check every 2 seconds, or ~9 skill checks. Each great skill check instantly progresses the bar by 1%, or 0.9s of time gained per. For 9 great skill checks, you gain 8.1s of gen time. The overall time saved is with the toolbox+BNP+wire spool+skill check is give or take 40.27s, or 44.7% of a gen. The numbers only get more absurd when you throw in things like Hyperfocus Stakeout. "toolboxes don't matter if the gen doesn't get completed"? You're telling me you can instantly delete 44.7%'s worth of progress on a gen with killer? Show me how, I'm very interested to find out. Because every SWF I've ever played against, as soon as someone gets chased off a gen with high progress, someone else will get off their own gen to go stop the regression and finish it.
Toolboxes and medkits are the two biggest time savers in the game. The idea that toolboxes are somehow weak because the progress can be reverted if you kick it and wait two centuries is absolutely ludicrous and has no foundation in reality.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317668#Comment_3317668
The issue is it reduces the distance survivors make which is already really small. On top of that, it’s a pseudo info use because of the score event that reveals that someone is in range.
No, the issue with C33 is definitely not the hinder, but the fact it does the same thing for Blight that DCB does for Spirit; it turns their only weakness (pallets/stealth) into a non-issue. Blight becomes the single best pallet destroyer in the game, and Spirit has to only follow the blinking indicator to get free hits. C33 needs a much bigger downside (think reduced movement speed, slower token recovery, or something equally debilitating), and DCB needs a whole rework or a massive reduction to phase duration.
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@ProHillbillyMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317589#Comment_3317589
Tell me how Adrenaline Vial is balanced, It's literally one of his most busted addons, he recharges every token in 1 second.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RXP1QUX9L5QC/image.png
I see no difference above.
Adrenaline Vial is literally just old Carburettor Tuning Guide on Blight.
Vial turns his rushes into near straight lines with very little deviation.
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@SmolBlob said:
Yellow speed should be basekit on Spirit outright. Maybe yellow duration too. And adjust the rest of her addons to compensate. Mother-Daughter Ring/Yakuyoke Amulet should get some heavy numbers nerfs. Dried Cherry Blossom should be reworked.
For Blight, Alchemist Ring should be reworked. Compound 33 just needs the Hinder removed. Other than that, everything else is balanced.
The Hinder is near worthless on C33. It's like a 3% speed reduction. It needs a bigger downside if it's gonna turn Blight into the single best pallet shredder in the game. I say this as a Blight main.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317598#Comment_3317598
And I saw a video of Leatherface downing 4 Survivors with a single sweep on old Haddonfield, I still dont think fringe cases are issues as they rarely happen.
And all examples about toolboxes being an issue people bring have Hyperfocus, Stake Out and (sometimes) This is Not Happening, the issue maybe isnt the toolboxes themselves but the perks.
Nah, it's definitely the toolboxes. Even without Hyperfocus/Stakeout, a good toolbox can shave off a lot of gen time by hitting great skill checks. A single BNP shaves off 17.5 seconds of gen time if both skill checks are hit. However, toolboxes make Hyperfocus+Stakeout significantly scarier because they synergize so well with it (increased chance of skill checks, which compounds with Hyperfocus' increased chance of skill checks, and creates an exponential increase in gen speeds).
So yes, toolboxes are a problem. And a 40s solo gen isn't a "fringe case" by any means, unlike a once in a lifetime occurrence where 4 people line up to get downed by a single PH power use or whatever else. It's a reproducible result that's far too powerful in the current meta.
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Made a starstruck nurse DC
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@HectorBrando said:
No, even the most stacked toolbox barely makes a dent on gen progression.
I have footage of me doing a gen solo in 40s with hyperfocus stakeout and a stacked toolbox without a BNP. A BNP would have reduced that time to about 27s give or take.
Tell me again how toolboxes have no effect on gen speeds.
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Please no.
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Wreckers Yard? Really? You mean one of the most balanced maps in the game should be removed? And we shouldn't address maps like Garden, Cowshed, and Mother's Dwelling, because those are fine?
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317546#Comment_3317546
I'm not arguing the addon isnt strong. I'm just saying its not the biggest issue in this game right now. There are far more bigger things than the random spirit using MDR.
Question how many spirits do you see per week? Dont lie. I see maybe 2. I play quite often daily even 4-5 hours, and i usually see 2 spirits per week. Rarely MDR on them. I see much more nurses and blights and weskers than i see spirits. Why...who knows maybe shes not the easiest killer to play or perhaps people actually dont find her as strong.
Lets fix the game where the issues are and not because someone had a bad gameplay against a good spirit with MDR equipped and came to the forums to rant about it.
Again, now we're resorting to whataboutism. There ARE bigger issues than Spirit right now (Eruption and DH), but that's not what this thread is about.
Also, MDR DCB Spirit is the best strength-to-skill killer in the game. It is basically DBD in brainless mode. Press M2, go to where you last saw survivor at the speed of light, follow killer instinct, press M1 on killer instinct. Nurse and Blight at least require some modicum of skill to play properly. We're not dipping into the anecdotal with the whole "I've only encountered 3 Spirits in the last 6 years so it's not broken". That will never be an argument here.
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@Regulus47 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317151#Comment_3317151
Don't forget Iri tag, undetectable addon, pallet block addon since it got buffed, green and yellow turning and his wallhacks addon. Nobody talks about these but they're just as busted as his others.
Blight just needs a full addon rework honestly, make them good and more balanced like artists addons
Yes, also Placebo tablet is broken because it makes Blight slower (therefore his rushes are easier to hit) so it needs a nerf. Also, Crow+Rat need a nerf because they make Blight faster (therefore his rushes are easier to hit) so they also need a nerf. Also, Slam duration addons need a nerf because he can jump bump into a wall and stare at me for half an hour until I inevitably lose my cool and move to a disadvantaged position then get hit. Also, Blight should be a 75% movement speed and his rushes should be slightly faster than a survivor at the fastest possible setting.
Are you insane? In what world do you think any addons outside C33/Alch Ring are busted on Blight?
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317526#Comment_3317526
So killers can't have anything strong now? While survivors are rocking infinite heals with medkits + boons and BNP + toolboxes?
She has 1 strong addon and people are losing their minds over it.
Blight literally has 2 strong iri addons with no downsides and good greens as well, but you are losing your mind over 1 iri addon with a downside?
This ain't tit for tat. We can discuss the balance of one side without resorting to whataboutism. COH is problematic, medkits are problematic, BNPs are problematic.
Spirit has FAR more than one strong addon. Even her yellows are some of the strongest in the game. The biggest problem with MDR is how absurdly powerful it makes an already very strong power, on top of how universal it is, and how well it synergizes with her other addons: with Yakuyoke, you basically have super speed phase for half an hour and it recharges at the same rate as it would without. With DCB, you basically turn off your brain and press M1 at the killer instinct notification. MDR NEEDS to have a bigger downside.
Also, we're still playing whataboutism when it comes to bringing up Blight, but I'll address it because it's a fair point. Iri Tag is extremely situational, and will cost a Blight a down more often than not: trying to force a hit with Iri Tag means you have to go out of your way to waste rushes, or avoid taking an easy hit, which gives the survivor even more chances to avoid your final rush, which means you're an M1 killer until all your rushes come back and the survivor walks away uninjured. C33 is very powerful and needs to have a bigger downside (-1 rush, less speed when rushing, just something). I'd say outside of C33 and Alch Ring, all of Blight's addons are in a very good place. The only change I'd make is turn AV into a purple (I'm saying this as someone who uses Vial a lot). The difference between a Blight using greens/yellows and a Blight not using anything is minimal. The difference between a Spirit using yellows and a Spirit not using anything is drastic.
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Bring the apples and laugh.
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DBD forums will never cease to surprise me. Can we nerf Sloppy next? I think healing for 60s with Self Care is broken and I don't like it, ergo irrefutable evidence.
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Absolutely not.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317151#Comment_3317151
Dried Cherry blossom is for people that dont want to destroy their ears with headset having to be at 100% volume or people with hard of hearing. How about we just leave that addon how it is.
I have decent headset but yet i still have to keep my volume really high to hear anything. Uninjured survivors are pretty quiet. Chase music and ambiance noises make it hard as well to hear sometimes. After playing few matches i have a headache or ear ring. But i still love my spirit.
MDR...its an iri addon.. it has a downside, it's not unbeatable force.
Uninjured survivors are quiet? That's almost as if Spirit is supposed to have counterplay.
MDR is arguably one of the strongest addon in the game.
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@HugTechLover said:
Some of y’all don’t realize that many of blight’s addons besides compound 33 require significant skill to use successfully. Especially the blight tag, AV, and speed.
People will always find something to whine about. Alch ring and c33 need a touch up but that's about it. If they got downed once by a iri tag blight after gifting him the hit expecting speed boost, it is now the most broken addon in the game.
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@Nyr0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316460#Comment_3316460
I feel like you're one of those survivors that hide all match, you're already playing roll the dice every time the killer chases you already, even when you leave your fellow survivor on hook for a gen to be done is rolling the dice because you never know if they might freak out n start killing themselves, I myself like to live on that edge of the knife because it makes the game more interesting, as for engaging power... like that do you mean by that? A werewolf? Because we already have demo....
I feel like you're one of those guys that make baseless assumptions on forums whenever someone criticizes their idiotic suggestion, sprinkled with false dichotomies. See? We can both ad hominem, doesn't change the fact that power sounds boring as hell to go against. BHVR is already so creatively bankrupt that we got the Knight aka Artist for dummies. Let's stop here and try to come up with something engaging.
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Sounds kinda boring to play against tbh. I'd rather an engaging power that's threatening than play roll of the dice every time I see a killer running towards me.
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######### you mean slugging is a high risk high reward strategy? That's HUGE if it's true.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316366#Comment_3316366
The fact she's a budget worse Freddy.
And to add, her best playstyle requires hardcore slugging and getting 0 hooks, 4Ks.
I mean, she needs something.
Wha-
How do you even reconcile this opinion with the current state of both Freddy and Sadako? Freddy is a killer with no identity or real power. He has a bunch of half-baked powers thrown together and they called it a day. Every single one of his gimmicks is done better by another killer. He teleports? Weakest teleport in the game, Demo, Sadako, Dredge all do it better. He has mid-chase slowdown? Clown does it better. He has """stealth""" with a lullaby? Wraith, Sadako, Ghostface, and even just any killer running Trail of Torment do stealth better than him.
Sadako has a stealth power that she can use around some filler pallets to secure a hit (yes, even without Newspaper). She has a teleportation that doesn't get weaker as the game goes on, on top of also applying a slowdown to survivors that they eventually have to start worrying about. It also gives her a speed boost coming out of it. And, if she wants to, she can funnel a single survivor into her TVs for long enough that she can guarantee a mori on them, regardless of their hook state level.
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That's how it works, P1 gets you T1 perks on other characters with 2 and 3 available. Not a bug
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@Hermit said:
Top 5% MMR means the 5% of players that are at the top of the MMR scale, not that only 5% of the players are above 1600 MMR.
"the 1600 and above bracket consists of 5% of the playerbase"
Seems pretty self-explanatory to me.
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Not every pallet needs to be a god pallet that can be looped for hours. Killers will respect that pallet more than any other because the only way a survivor gets value from it is by getting a stun. It's this reverse psychology that can let a survivor squeeze out 10-20 seconds of time wasting from that bad pallet. If I'm injured and at the bottom of the staircase with nowhere else to go, you bet I'll waste as much time as possible around that pallet, rather than going down immediately. At the end of the day, pallets are literally just a way to waste the killer's time so your teammates can do gens. If you can waste any amount of time with it, it's useful.
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Wait, you mean to tell me some perks exist to counter others? Say it ain't so!
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Garden/Badham/Coldwind/Haddonfield. Killers will still be sending you to Lerys/Dead Dawg/Midwich. And the people that actually want decent games will use Autohaven/Macmillan offerings.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315391#Comment_3315391
Thanks for explaining your definition of cherry picking as it sounded kind of like you were lumping me in with sporadic 99% kill rate, 80% solo escape rate claims that show up sporadically.
I don't think it is impertinent to describe the matches people encounter as regular games and I do think there is a wide and varying level of skill shown in there and not one extreme or other. The soft cap is low enough there are not any Killers who, outside of custom matches, etc, are facing top tournament level players on a regular basis. That is just not the reality of the game.
I don't think your explanation covers it though. Tunneling can, if you just pick the first survivor seen, cost you the game and there are a lot of people who play sub-optimally due to fun, they don't want to be really sweaty to the other side, etc. I didn't see that with my Knight experience which is why I asked. To be honest, with the softcap, playing optimally would be boring.
To be honest, and I'm not trying to blow my horn, I win definitely more than the kill rate BHVR is shooting for. I also, unless BMed, never tunnel or camp and both statements have been true for months on all Killers I wanted to play even semi-seriously (outside of using Frozen Ghostface to pop out of snowmen and things like that).
The high level MMR thing is, in my opinion, a myth. The soft cap is too low for anyone to run into tournament level teams where it might be necessary on a regular basis. I will of course add the caveat that I don't believe any single player, regardless of the number of games, can serve as definitive proof of anything as one person can't represent everybody but, for me at least, out of an average of 4 to 8 Killer games a day over months I have seen no need to consider tunneling and camping and was able to win a considerable majority of them with spreading out hooks. That's why I don't think it's necessary. Matchmaking does not have enough survivors of the skill level where one would have to to regularly encounter them.
Considering how little we know about the MMR system and its low soft cap, I find that most people that try to argue that the fact that they're "above" it and therefore at the same level as everyone else to be vastly underestimating the skill level of higher level players, especially survivors. I don't pretend to know how the MMR system functions, all I know is that most of my games, especially on my most played killers, tend to be against extremely competent survivors more often than not, and it didn't use to be this way. This isn't evidence of anything, but to claim to understand the MMR system and its functionality entirely is absolutely fallacious unless you happen to have intimate information about its mechanics.
Casual players are, by definition, casual, and less likely to discuss or even delve too deeply into the game's mechanics. You'll find a lot less casual players, for example, on this forum, as the dedication required to discuss the game likely means that the person cares more than a casual player. Ergo, the experiences of a casual player are definitely not relevant in the discussion at hand.
Tunneling will cost you the game if you're a bad tunneler, it's that easy. If you try to tunnel a person that leads you on a 5-gen chase, you cost yourself the game - not the strategy. Tunneling is OBJECTIVELY the strongest strategy in the game currently, and it's the reason why you see it done so much at higher levels of play.
I also used to never tunnel or camp, and prided myself in it, then I won enough games that if I ever dare try to play without pressuring one or two people in specific, I'll lose all 5 gens by the time I have 4-5 hooks, especially when playing a B-tier or lower killer.
Your opinion is contrary to my own opinion and experiences, so I don't really care for it. Again, no one outside of the dev team really understands the inner workings of the MMR system and how much wiggle room it affords above the soft cap. However, I'd be willing to wager a good amount of the "sweaty" killers beside myself on this forum have similar experiences where they run into very competent swfs more often than not.
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Honestly, use more anti-tunnel perks, expect a tunnel every time you come off hook, run AWAY from the killer, and if tunneled, loop as long as you can.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315367#Comment_3315367
The thread and my questions indicate that the main question of the thread was that I only experience Knights who tunnel, camp and/or 3 gen from the start and I play Knight very differently. As such, I asked if I (a) played Knight very differently and; (b) is what I experienced common to everyone else.
I'm unsure what your definition is of condemn but, to me, saying that, in regular games, you don't need to camp, tunnel or 3 gen from the start is not a condemnation but rather a statement of fact. If you disagree and feel that you need to tunnel, camp and 3 gen from the start with triple or quad regression perks with the Knight to win in regular matches please feel free to state that and why.
I'm also unsure what your definition of cherry picking is but I don't consider randomly picking a day to record a match and show it warts and all no matter what happens constitutes cherry picking.
a) You are playing the Knight differently than the people who play him optimally, because the optimal way to play him is to use his power to shut down loops as quick as possible (like an Artist for dummies), secure quick hits, hook someone in a 3-gen, and camp them out - ideally to death.
b) Define "everyone else". If you're referring to the vast majority of the player base (who I assume plays at a level below the top levels), then you're probably not using the killer all that differently. If you're referring to the portion of the player base that plays the killer at the highest level, and HAS to use him optimally, then you are most definitely using him differently.
"In regular games" is an impertinent phrase. A regular game for you may be 4 players who play the game once a week and have no idea what they're doing. A regular game for someone else may be a sweaty swf that plays this game like a full-time job, brings map offerings and S tier items every game, and has perfect comms. There is no middle ground here. And you absolutely do need to camp/tunnel/3-gen from the start if you're playing at the highest level of play (or close to it), because survivors are simply too efficient, and to do otherwise would be to use the killer suboptimally which will likely lead to a loss. You may not enjoy the quad slowdown 3-gen camping strat (I don't either), but it's currently the optimal way to play this killer specifically, hence why so many people gravitate to it.
When I say you were cherrypicking, I didn't intend to infer that it was done with malice. I meant that it is cherrypicked by definition; as it is an extremely small sample size (one game) played against an evidently incompetent team. It wouldn't be all that different if I played a game against all bots, without using my power or any perks, go out of my way to 8-hook them, and try to convince people that this constitutes proof that camping/tunneling/perks/powers aren't necessary to 4k. It's not realistic, and it's not relevant to any tangible discussion.
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I watched a bit of the video, and I'm honestly confused at what the point of this thread is supposed to be. You played against four survivors that had absolutely no idea how to play against the killer (and it wouldn't be a stretch to infer from this that they're not very good at the game to begin with), got a good result while not using the killer optimally or with optimal perks, and think that this one game somehow constitutes enough data to condemn the rest of the player base.
To answer your inquiry, people use the knight to camp 3-gens because he has one of the strongest basekits to do so. He's a very strong camper overall, and tunneling is the optimal way to play the game currently (unfortunately), hence why so many killers are doing it. The result is that the average, sweaty Knight player that wants to win will likely proxy camp their first hook, while holding a 3-gen, and will try to tunnel out the person if they do get unhooked. It's not rocket science.
Sorry, I just don't see what the point of this thread is. If you're trying to incite discussion about the Knight, there was probably a better way to do so. If you're trying to somehow change everyone's opinions on the killer by using a cherrypicked game as data, then I don't know what to tell you.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312782#Comment_3312782
Its not infinite, its not free and gens can still pop during that time.
It is infinite, by virtue of being tied to a simple cooldown, instead of a post-hook system, or something like Deadlock where it procs 4 times a game.
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@Tsulan said:
Looking at the comments i´m probably alone with this opinion. But no, i don´t think that it needs a nerf.
First of all, killer has to continuously kick generators. Giving survivors a head start in chases or even breaks the chase before it begun.
Second, the 25 second stun is probably just an annoyance and more or less the same time the killer needs to clean his weapon, pick the survivor up, walk to a hook and hook. All in which only the survivors that were working on gens he previously kicked are bound to do basically the same: walk to the hook.
Third, most of the time the effect only affects 1 or 2 survivors at once with a total of effects that combined usually won´t pass the 2 minute mark during the whole match.
Fourth, this just reminds me about the Undying Ruin nerf discussion. Where everyone claimed that they have to cleanse 5 hex totems alone and that no gens get done during a passive effect that only works when no one does. Erruption took the place of Undying Ruin. A different perk (combo) will take the place of Erruption if it would get nerfed. Are we ready for something that could be much, much worse? Because as far as Undying Ruin goes, most people seem to agree that it was a lesser nuisance than Erruption.
Killers shouldn't get pressure-free infinite down time because they downed someone, got a free hook state while supremely confident that no gens are being done.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311619#Comment_3311619
Because every game is a well coordinated 4 man swf. Will you have those games, sure. They aren't as common as everyone likes to claim. Under those conditions you might need to tunnel to win. That is not the average game though.
I don't know, I seem to run into an awful lot of these at all times of the day. I'm talking 4-man character swap to p100s with stacked items, I'm talking at least one BNP every game (often 2-3), I'm talking purple medkits when I see a medkit, I'm talking 4x Adrenaline, 2x OTR, 4x DH every game. I'm talking chases end near instantly when I'm playing Blight or Nurse and 3 gens pop before I even walk to my first hook. I'm talking rotating running across the map to take a hit for whoever is being chased to delay the down.
@ProGamerMD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311409#Comment_3311409
When the median playtime of this game is 190 hours or whatever it is, saying you are in the top 5% seems meaningless. Most people are not good at this game, even the people who play several times per week. It would be more interesting to see the stats for the top 0.1% or 0.01%.
Peanits comments of camping/tunneling being required because you've "climbed above your comfort zone" only makes sense when talking about lower MMR players. You see comp teams camping and tunneling with the strongest killers in the game and averaging maybe only 2 kills. Same goes for plateauing and losing half the matches. Doesn't happen for better players.
Aye, if the top killers in the game tunnel as a standard to win (and still often only get a 2k or so), then his rhetoric of "playing above your means" doesn't really make sense. It's either you're playing to win or you're not.
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@Peanits said:
Everyone will reach a point where you plateau while playing the way you would typically play. This point will vary person to person: Some people are absolute legends and will climb really high without much effort, others will cap out fairly low (and that's okay!). This is exactly how MMR systems work. The game is trying to find a spot where your playstyle, whatever it may be, will work about half the time.
That said, if you try to play in a way that'll make you win more often, your rating will increase and you will get tougher matches, eventually plateauing again where your new strategy only works about half the time. The harder you try, the tougher your opponents will be. If you feel like you need to tunnel after tunneling to win, it's more than likely due to the fact that you've climbed above your comfort zone.
To be very clear, if you're hyper focused on winning more often than not, you will have to try (and try hard at that). The game will not try to give you easy wins. Winning consistently means the other side is losing consistently, and that means the matchmaking system isn't working.
Trying to boil the game down to an equation doesn't really work. In your example, you haven't factored in the time survivors spent saving their teammates. This is by far the most important factor in the game: Pressure. If you have one survivor on a hook, another in a chase, and a third going for a save, that leaves only one survivor left free to work on generators. This is also something you sacrifice by tunneling one survivor; the other three have nothing to do but generators since you aren't giving them a reason not to, so your generators will fly by. There's way too many factors to stick a number on it without grossly oversimplifying it.
All that aside, I really wouldn't assume you're at high MMR (not just you, OP, but anyone). The actual distribution of people across all MMRs is like a bell curve. There's a lot of people in the middle and very few at either extreme (high or low). The vast majority of people will fall somewhere around the middle. While I don't doubt that some folks here truly are playing in the high MMR range, the amount of people there are so low that it's a really bold claim to make when you can't even see your rating.
To this, I'll respond that the main playstyle at the top levels of play (i.e competitive) is to hold a 3 gen and tunnel/camp someone out as a standard, because it is near impossible to win a game against a competent, coordinated swf, on a relatively average map, if all 4 are alive. As long as at least one person is constantly on gens, the killer is constantly fighting a losing battle. In this scenario, I'm excluding the killer using slowdown perks, or the survivors using genrush strats (since I'd argue 4x bnp commo is much stronger than the strongest 4x slowdown stack).
All pressure the killer can dish out gets relieved relatively quickly in most conditions, when medkits, COH, deliverance, adrenaline, we'll make it, and other strong recovery perks are a thing. Dishing out pressure is something that costs the killer time. Injure someone and commit to a different chase? In the best conditions, two people are healing (16s), one person is being chased, and one person is on gens. After 16 seconds, your pressure is lost and you gained no new hook states. As it stands, there is zero incentive for the killer going for a win to not tunnel someone out of the game as early as possible, regardless of what it takes, because spreading out hooks is objectively a worse decision, outside of any outside rules present. Even in the best situation, assuming quick chases, it's better to target two people in specific, or "soft tunnel" in order to reduce the odds of the tunnel out stealthing for long enough.
This is a mathematical fact: on a lot of maps, killers HAVE to play dirty to win, because tiles are simply too safe. I remember doing a breakdown; even assuming a 10s down time between chases, 10s hook, and 20s chases, a killer spreading hooks out evenly will get 6-7 hooks at best before all gens pop. The numbers only get more absurd when you factor in things like hyperfocus stakeout toolboxes (50s solo gens), BNPs (40s solo gens), Prove Thyself (48 second 2 man gens) etc.
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Cutest boy is demo
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@thrawn3054 said:
Amazing how everyone is always high mmr. That aside there are alot of factors that go into a match. The map and map rng being the most important factors. To claim you have to tunnel to win at any level of play is disingenuous at best.
How do you win against a coordinated SWF with full meta perks, predropping every pallet, splitting up on gens across the map, calling out where you are at all times and who you're chasing, avoiding each other's gens, and taking hits for each other? The only reliable strat is to tunnel someone out ASAP, and hold out a 3-gen. This is also what you see high level players do, along with a lot of camping to force trades/advanced hook states.
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@BenOfMilam said:
You actually spelled out why tunneling early is one of the WORST strategies a killer can use.
Tunneling a survivor from the word "go" is what will get you the scenario of survivors being maximally efficient on gens. You chase one guy, hook him, hover around the hook so you can chase him as soon as he's unhooked, repeat until he's dead.
Problem is, only one survivor needs to come for unhook. Leaving the other two free to do gens. So instead of pushing people off gens and buying time, hardcore tunneling makes the other two or three survivors free to slam gens with impunity.
Sure, you got one guy out. But the cost was four gens.
Spread pressure and keep people off gens. You can win with 12 hooks and 0 slowdown, it's just a matter of using the right strategies and the right killers.
Spreading pressure against good players means you waste 30-60 seconds getting an injure, running into pallet after pallet being predropped only to drop chase to go pressure another gen, and your pressure gets reset by a medkit.
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@Rudjohns said:
Maybe you are not up to high MMR
Maybe the game is simply fundamentally unbalanced. If survivors can complete their main objective in 112.5 seconds if left completely alone, or 150 seconds assuming one is busy at all times, a killer can't be expected to get 12 hooks within 150 seconds.
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@steamed_hamzzz said:
The main issue is maps not gens, if you’re playing a 4.4 killer on Red Forest for example it’s gonna seem like gens are flying simply because it takes so long to traverse the map, a group of survivors can complete a generator while you’re walking from one end of the map to the other
the issue isn’t generator times themselves, it’s gen spread and map size
I agree that map design is the bigger issue, but even on smaller maps, a properly split up survivor team is very difficult to pressure. The problem is just accentuated tenfold on larger maps like Ormond or Garden.
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@I_CAME said:
The thing is if you actually took the time to test this i'd be willing to bet money that the time lost from a sprint burst is probably the same as the time lost from a dead hard. Dead hard just feels worse because you attack and feel like you were cheated out of a down. If dead hard was removed people would just whine about sprint burst being OP once survivors learned how to use it effectively.
Yes, except DH disincentivizes a killer from using their basic abilities (lunge, power) because the survivor snatches a 3rd health state out of thin air and gets a second chance when they were dead either way. Sprint Burst simply creates more distance.
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@HeyItsQuiet said:
Then remove NOED.
Toss it into the fire along with DH. Same with Eruption.