bjorksnas
bjorksnas
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I mean it does still incentivize dragging games out if you have the longest on your bleedout meter and the killer doesn't know where you are you crawl around and hide for ~4 minutes, theres a time and place for slugging out for the 4k
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Buff one of the strongest perks in the game to an even stronger version and buff a strong perk back to being one of the strongest perks in the game because the perks that most killers don't use are better now?
Yes and while we are at it since survivors have a perk to swap hook states and better perks to counter tunneling off the hook lets just remove basekit bt
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870846#Comment_3870846
Bingo. If they have an issue with Huntress hatchet hitboxes, they should be looking at the survivor hitbox.
Frankly to fix one they have to fix both and even then ping will always exist, so nothing stops jank hits it just makes it look slightly better on the killers screen and requires more skill
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871076#Comment_3871076
I wouldn't consider it wasted dev time for making something look like its in the realm of possibilites because hits like those still occur on low ping for both sides. Even myself I've thrown a hatchet 10 lightyears way too far to the left or right and it still magically hits while both players had good ping.
Frankly I would, mostly because I think other changes and fixes seem more important than hatchet hitboxes
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870846#Comment_3870846
Yes but the hatchet itself is still beach ball sized in hitbox. Of course most of this could be alleviated by just reducing the hatchet hitbox size by about a third and adding actual hitboxes to the survivors while making the pill the actual environmental collision box that has nothing to do with taking damage unless its something like traps.
Technically yes they could balance it fix it work on it and test it for a while just so huntress hatchet hitboxes look a little better in one of the two regards but it might take weeks to months, they probably won't because its a lot of dev time for very little and you won't get rid of ping issues till you remove ping completely you can't expect a real player to want to aim where the survivor sees themselves on the survivors screen so hits will always look off, a total of 120 ping will still see you hit by a hatchet that can be up to 0.4 meters away from you and if there dares to be a bit more, it will still look EXACTLY the same so it will feel like "wasted" dev time for people who want other changes.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870827#Comment_3870827
Nah the hatchet hitbox is also genuinely that big. Its a sphere where the the width is actually like 3 hatchets lined up next to each other.
Yeah but when you throw it 40m/s ask a server to interpret it with 60 ping from the killer 60 ping from the survivor, and the fact the running hitbox looks like this
Its not gonna look right, in that 120 ping of time between the killer and survivor and server, it can hit a survivor who moved a half meter from it on their screen and not on the killers screen. Combine them all together and.
comedy
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@exDbd said:
let’s talk about aura reading. Since the distortion nerf I’ve seen killers running whole builds of nothing but aura. While it could help them, there is little to nothing survivors can do since the distortion nerf. Bbq and chili, lethal pursuer, friends til the end, darkness revealed and even killer add ons that give them aura reading. Seriously aura is ruining the game. I miss old DBD when there were little to no aura reading. I already know I’m going to get comments like well at least they aren’t using gen perks. That’s besides the point. Having my location revealed every game has been such a hassle for me. I’m solo queue by the way. I don’t even know why I play anymore as killers have been getting nothing but hand outs. We used to use distortion to protect us from this but no the ones who run it just to hide all game got it nerfed for all of us. I don’t think it’s fair for us survivors. I wish DBD would work on helping solo queue out as it’s so unplayable recently. Please I’m begging…..
If you feel like you are the weak link in most matches, you can still stack plenty of unhook and aura blocking perks to buy yourself more time and your teammates more time from you, off the record buys you 80s per unhook of no aura reading that doesn't go away when you lose the endurance. Distortion itself still buys you plenty of stealth, it just doesn't let you go fully invisible which just wasn't good design.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868611#Comment_3868611
Wave Dashing was not an intended mechanic and it is considered core tech for most characters
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868884#Comment_3868884
I can see them eventually removing the bot tag so people aren't aware of when they're playing with them. Sometimes I watch some of my team mates and wonder if they already do this..
Ive already seen / felt this happen for 2~3 periods of time in live matches, usually following a big release to give new survivors an average experience and helps fill up the pool to balance queues because usually a lot of people try the new killer, and a 10/15 minute wait would lead to a bad experience.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868226#Comment_3868226
Never play Melee you are not gonna like what you see
wobbling is banned brother, yes there are "exploits" in the game but you aren't allowed to use most of them
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868344#Comment_3868344
Then let's get rid of them and watch what happens to the game. The proof will be in the pudding 😁
I mean its things that 3000+ hour survivors use and its been slowly being patched out of the game or made less effective in different places. There's a reason that only 1 map right now has the full see through shack. Its because its not very… balanced at some loops.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Are we serious…
The DbD forums are never beating the killer bias allegations.
Heavens forbid survivors are able to use their map knowledge in a chase.
Checks spots are boring though, standing around the back of a see through shack is not really that interesting, one of the reasons they pivoted away from m1 killers.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867954#Comment_3867954
After this update, I'm done with Freddy.
I'm done.
Is he too good now?
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@GeneralV said:
As soon as I learned how to do it against Xeno…
But it is okay, I understand why it had to be removed.
put it back
thats not your iconic icon
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867507#Comment_3867507
That's.... so bhvr
yeah, they said well the pallets explode, but not if you drop them, but also if you drop them you may stun the killer
roller coaster balancing, I don't expect it to make it past the ptb
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867507#Comment_3867507
Since dream pallets always break on throw, you can get value from Hubris.
Obviously but if you want to do it well it takes half your build and if the survivors just don't care, thats half your build
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@Mr_K said:
Wait, dream pallets stun Freddy now?
its a feature now, specifically added to the game
I don't agree with it much either
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@TonTon said:
This "Rework" feels more like a Fix then a rework or at most a very soft rework being a former Original Freddy main that's what I'd call it.
I am glad that we can use both snares and dream pallets and even when Survivors are awake but with this rework putting emphasis on putting Survs in the Dreamworld the Dreamworld itself has no danger or urgency to want to cleanse it.
I would want it if your in the Dreamworld Freddy can just TP to you like Pinhead or Singularity can do instead of just when there just healing.
Ps why remove TP canceling that was an ok mind game?
Probably removed tp canceling because teleporting to heals is strong and it doesn't also need to combo with faking it constantly and perks / effects that benefit that like no quarter and hermorrhage
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865149#Comment_3865149
You have to complete 5 gens at 90 charges each to power the exit gates in every trial. That is a static mechanic that is guaranteed to be present in every game.
Tunneling is something that may or may not happen.
But will you get a boon meg who will go around touching totems and moving her boon when she really doesn't have to
Will you get a basement meg who will cross the entire map every time she gets injured so she can self care slightly faster
Will you get goobers who stand around and relax for the first 30s open a chest maybe cleanse a totem before finally sitting on a gen
Will you get teammates who are heal crazy and must be healthy 24/7 or stand next to you by the gen until you get off to heal them (usually against a perma t3 myers)
Sure the "number" is static but the players are not, some games you get people who seem allergic to gens some games you get teammates popping 3 gens after the first chase.
Just because its a static number doesn't mean people play into it in a static way. Some people will crush gens at any cost, some people won't. Some will bring toolboxes and perks (aka not a static number anymore and thats not even counting skillchecks) and some people won't.
Gens being completed at a normal pace may or may not happen.
Perks,
Regression,
Gen kicking,
Slowdown,
Blocking,
You can't tell me its going to be 90 charges every game, because sure the default number is that, but is that how it actually plays out, almost never.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
You're correct that they aren't the same thing, and that BHVR hasn't defined a "win" condition. However, usually people are trying to somehow use this information to say that the game isn't leaning in the killer's favor currently.
Nightlight isn't a full picture, but since the devs don't give us the breakdown of how many kills per game, it's all we have currently. As of right now the breakdown is:
- 0k: 20.2%
- 1k: 16.6%
- 2k: 12.9%
- 3k: 17.2%
- 4k: 33%
So, if we use the common definition that 0k and 1k are survivor "wins", a 2k is a draw, and 3k and 4k are kill "wins", then you still have killers winning about 50% of the time, about 13% of the games are a draw, and about 37% of the games are survivor wins.
Whether it's the 60% kill rate, or the more nebulous win rate, the game is currently favoring killers in both metrics.
Well True but the metric for whether its a win or loss for killer isn't the same as a win or loss for a survivor, I can get hatch and consider it a win for myself while 3 teammates who died consider it a loss. The metric for what is a win / loss is very self determined since of course the devs don't want to set one.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865537#Comment_3865537
You're making a great argument that maps are heavily killer sided (you're correct). When survivors have a choice of 2 maps that aren't killer-sided, don't expect a variety in offerings.
60% kill rate is not balanced and the game is stagnating the more its pushed.
Look if we use 50% as the balancing point EVERY killer is overpowered except for chucky (by 0.1%) EVERY map is killer sided but except 2, and all but 13 killer perks are overpowered.
Very clearly thats not the balancing point the game right now and by no means should be used as the end all be all of judging balance at a glance. Don't take it up with me for just going off community info based on the numbers the devs want. Take it up with the devs.
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@FMG15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865300#Comment_3865300
Well how do you want to implement features that benefit soloQ players but not SWF? Perhaps they should start to implement features that only soloQ players will get.
You can't the main part of making buffs to survivor is that they will be buffs to survivor you can't really just exclusively buff soloq without also giving swf a bit as well, but then killers will have to be buffed to compensate for the fact that survivors know where all other survivors are, where they are more often whether seeing them or seeing pings of where they are ect, id say probably a handful of killers could keep up with info like that going around but certainly not more than ~6 of them.
Do the devs want to rework a big chunk of the game with a massive new amount of information in mind so solo queue survivors can be closer to average swfs and average swfs can be much stronger, probably not.
Is it also partially a skill issue that the average solo queue player could overcome or overperk, probably, will they, probably not.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865503#Comment_3865503
Using a scewed definition of fair to say most maps are survivor sided is some supreme killer forum logic.
There are 2 survivor sided maps by those stats. One of which has a 20% chance of appearing with a map offering.
If your definition of fair sits at a 50% kill rate that's fine but it doesn't align with the devs so unfortunately your outlook is the one thats skewed. Theres a reason that 1/3rd of the time you end up one eerie of crows its with an offering, its not because its "balanced" its because its heavily survivor sided when balanced for the devs intended kill rate.
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@TsukiYurei said:
Remove map offerings, Variety is the slice of life.
I like the idea of some influence, variety is less of a slice of life when you go eerie bahdam eerie badham
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865468#Comment_3865468
Which map after changes become survivor sided?
Probably none of them, most times maps change its because its way too far into the survivor side that its miserable to play on. Old rpd, old eerie of crows, many versions of Haddonfield ect. Doesn't mean that all reworked maps are overly killer sided all of a sudden though garden of joy got "reworked" but it still sits at a 53% kill rate
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865468#Comment_3865468
why does the coin have 7 killer sides and 1 survivor side?
Well if the kill rate is supposed to be 60% then any map over 60% would be killer sided and any map under 60% would be survivor sided
if we plug that into nightlights stats there are 11 killer sided maps (above 60%) and 34 survivor sided maps (below 60%)
Technically 11 killer sides and 34 survivor sides and 1 really messed up coin.
https://nightlight.gg/maps/viewer?sort=kill&shown=pick%7Ckill%7Cdist&start_days=28
as for why it might feel heavily killer weighted, uhh solo queue vs swf and psychology of losing / winning.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
I understand that a lot of maps used to be survivor sided but can we please acknowledge that a lot of the changes have gone too far in the opposite direction now? Playing survivor nowadays feels like a complete dice roll on whether or not you'll get anything actually usable.
Most of the modern maps (Nostromo, Greenville, Forgotten Ruins, etc.) are so boring to play on:
- They're huge and take ages to traverse for hook saves.
- They consistently spawn horrible 3-gens.
- Have weak main buildings.
- Lots of the pallets are SO unsafe that dropping them is a guaranteed hit unless you land a stun.
Not to mention that a lot of the old maps have been completely ruined by overzealous reworks. Take Cowshed for instance. Yes it was too strong for survivors and needed some changes, but they massively overcorrected and now this map has a high chance of giving you nothing to work with. Just played a match and EVERY single tile was one of those new ones they snuck in a few patches ago with a unsafe pallet and an okay window.
I know some people will probably doubt me so here's the proof:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YKEW666F0IZU/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FRI1EPKRHFTQ/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/A80E7Y3EANBK/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/W0245XL8BTX7/image.png
And that's saying nothing of the huge deadzones some maps spawn. Looking at you Haddonfield…
I get there are maps out there that are bad for killers too, but I don't understand why we can't find a nice middleground. I feel like we're just flip-flopping between extremes here and it's miserable for everyone.
They don't want a middle ground they want maps to be more of a coinflip that leads to a random buff for one side or the other.
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@FMG15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865252#Comment_3865252
It's a massive problem for soloQ players
Everything is a problem for solo queue players, the game is built off low amounts of information, if they wanted the game to have more info you would see teammate auras 24/7 see killer aura when teammates see the killer, there would be a ping system to point at objectives and help keep track of stealth killers moving around the map ect.
Its not a problem of the strategies its a problem the difference that information makes in just pulling it all apart.
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@FMG15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865138#Comment_3865138
Band-aid fixes should never be the way to go.
Fixes imply that its a problem and not a way to weaken a strategy
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865139#Comment_3865139
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865152#Comment_3865152
I don't wanna start a fight or nothing with you guys, but there is a similar thread in your language here that is confusing...
Tunneling and Slugging are basekit and designed? As in a mechanic built into the killer? This is like saying standing behind a rock and staying out of sight is basekit for survivors... it's not part of the kit, it's a tactic/strategy you use your abilities to employ. This might sound like nit picking, but the distinction here is the difference between actual rules of the game and just players using their basekit mechanics to play within those rules... tunneling and slugging are strategies that come from those mechanics, not mechanics themselves, and the reason they are in the game is because they are not inherently bad/evil ideas in all scenarios to do.
I'm also picking you up cause the phrase "bad design" always bothers me, because it is usually a buzz word people throw around and is often not explained and certainly not valid... what bad design are we talking about exactly?
Tunnelling is a byproduct of the fact the killer can kill a survivor after 3 hooks, and the obviously logical understanding that 3 players is not as strong as 4 players. There is also the logic that healthy survivors have 2 health states, unhooked survivors have 1, which again makes logical sense. Tunnelling isn't something designed into the game, it is a strategy developed by players by intelligently interpreting the rules of the trial. Would it be better if all hook stages were shared by all survivors and everyone only had 1 health state, and being injured/healing only meant the difference between making noise and not? Where one weak player can cost the team all of their hooks really quickly and the killer can kill you off a single chase after bullying the weak link all game? What exactly is the "bad design" in regards to tunneling?
Slugging is also not designed into the game, it is a strategy born as a byproduct of logically interpretting that a downed survivor cannot interact with anything until picked up by another survivor and moves much more slowly. Recognising an opportunity to slug, and accounting for the respective risk vs. reward is a strategic gamble on the killers part, where if 2 players are in close proximity where you can reasonably score a hit on both of them, why would you not slug if the opportunity is there to catch 3 survivors at the same time? If you take too long downing the second survivor you can lose the first and spent an additonal 30s+ for still only 1 hook stage. Would it be better if the moment the killer downs a survivor they are automatically forced to walk to the survivor and instantly pick up? Doesn't that require the removal of pallet and flashlight saves completely and reduce the available interactions and skill expression of survivors? What exactly is the "bad design" in regards to slugging?
When it comes to perks countering strategies, couldn't we just as easily say this about any decently strong perk, item or add-on?
E.g. Sprint Burst - Counters the strategy of approaching the gen from the side with the shortest distance to the tile/unspent resources so the survivor has to run to a less safe side. SB however allows the survivor to move fast enough to make it to almost any tile before the killer catches up... Isn't the fact the killer isn't rewarded for playing intelligently here because this perk exists an example of bad design?
Obviously I'm giving an asinine example, but if you're going to say perks shouldn't be used to counter a strategy, you're gonna have to tell me why this stupid example is fine and tunneling/OTR and slugging/Unbreakable isn't.
Finally someone with reason
Now the strategies themselves were discovered rather early, so while not probably intended as initial design the devs did like the emergent properties they had. Like how rocket jumping was discovered in quake and then stayed around as a feature rather than an exploit to be removed. Emergent properties can become a mainstay in the game. And if they don't like certain aspects of it they well change it to be a more middle ground but usually not a free lunch for survivors because its their role to survive not be handed a free win for playing recklessly. So lets give a small history.
Swivel Hooks, the first strats as trapper was to put down a trap directly in front of the hook. Survivors had to unhook from a single direction so they had to disarm the trap and survivors who attempted an escape would also be caught. The devs didn't like the loop they changed it. They even probably later added a bit of trap immunity on self unhook since you could only self unhook in a single direction.
Basekit BT from instantly going down, to a perk being added that protected both the unhooker and the unhooked survivor, to a perk that protected just 1 of the survivors. To a basekit feature and a perk that extends its duration. While survivors got punished for doing things in the killers face they still wanted to give a bit more agency to the person who got unhooked since they don't get to choose how their teammates save them, what situation they save them in, and when.
Anti-facecamp, camping was always intended going back to the hook being around the area, you got a bit of progress towards killing a survivor and usually can then use it to catch someone else out of position for an easy chase or free hook. But standing 2 feet away and staring as a bubba or billy just wasn't fun after a while. Now they are forced to play slightly further from the hook but they aren't completely prevented from going near for a little while.
Now for slugging
Currently I don't think we quite need it yet mostly because the perks that counter slugging are much stronger than most of the other perks for anti camping / tunneling, We're gonna live forever (especially with mft) does a great job getting people back up and protecting them for a bit, unbreakable used at the right time even by one person can get 2-3 teammates up while they go after the 4th person. Exponential uncommonly but can be used in a similar way. There are even a few gimmicks that can gaurentee free saves in groups with powerstruggle flip flop, basically forcing the killer to leave you for 4 minutes on the ground, give you a free save, or go far enough that you just reset / unbreakable.
But
I wouldn't mind a faster bleed out after a certain amount of time on the ground / if everyone is on the ground, most of the time if there is a team slug its just not worth the time and chance going around hooking everyone because they might get a free reset or any number of reasons like all 4 in the same corner (not enough hooks to go around) ect
If anything 4%ing off the hook and slow bleedouts is the problem with slugging, not the slugging out the team or for the 4k itself.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
They should just be removed outright. Regardless of whether it's guaranteed or not, being able to choose a map in any capacity is too big of an advantage and neither side should be able to do it. It feels terrible to load into a match knowing you are at a severe disadvantage before the game even started because your opponent was able to deliberately choose a map that either generally favors their side or favors a specific build they were able to plan out accordingly.
Maps should be chosen randomly 100% of the time.
I think they should still have a place in the game but not be built around and abused, something like if you get sent to the swamp over and over you might say maybe I want to go somewhere else
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865149#Comment_3865149
You aren't getting gen rushed by base kit survivors. That isn't even possible unless you're literally afk.
Tunneling, camping, and slugging are base kit for killers.
It can happen, depends on how the match starts off and the killer you are playing, but the obvious comparison is if it gets out of hand (which happens a lot without slowdown) you can toss on some slowdown perks to fight back against it / reduces its effectiveness, kinda like how perks for anti-tunnel-camp-slug work, its weird to have the game balanced around killers using perks to prevent survivors from snowballing into easy wins, while survivors refuse to put on perks to do the same and instead beg for basekit changes.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865149#Comment_3865149
This was accounted for with +10s on gens as well as the buffed gen kick, faster animations and less survivor distance killers got a while back. Although I also agree that there should be some form of slowdown as a general perk, removing surge from the general perk pool was terrible for killers.
Partially but if you played a round or two of the chaos shuffle game mode you can see how survivors even with random mediocre perks can eek out easy wins against most killers if they have no slowdown. Remove that from the vacuum of random perks and add items and killers do need some kind of slowdown to compete most of the time.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865138#Comment_3865138
Players should not be forced to bring perks to compensate for poor design.
Gen slowdown?
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@Pulsar said:
I'm going to say it.
Tunneling and slugging are unhealthy mechanics that are taken to extremes by portions of the playerbase.
There should be safeguards against these extremes.
Perks
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@AhoyWolf said:
I'm not sure if either of those are bugs, but I think having both would be nice QoL changes, Victor would be at least able to use consistently use one type of Perk at least.
Victor does get to use 1 type of perk
Hemorrhage, more blood to track
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Just because a killer isn't popular doesn't mean they are a problem or need a ton of changes.
Of the 5 killers on this list, the only ones who actually need big changes are SM (because her current power is very unhealthy for the game) and Freddy (because he feels weak and underwhelming). The others are mostly fine or only need smaller adjustments and/or an addon pass. I wouldn't mind Twins' slugging being addressed but only if they can find a way to do it that doesn't fundamentally change the killer or turn them into a powerhouse like they were on that one PTB, and I don't know if that's possible or not.
Freddy could use some big changes tbh
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Its actually funny how many killer powers are server sided because some if not most of them were designed to be played with the killer hosting the server in mind.
For example, blight playing at 120 ping in the main servers, nearly unplayable experience for anyone who has played the game for more than 10 hours, same blight on a ptb with 120 ping (which is killer hosted matches) normal great experience.
They just didn't design most killers with the ping in mind and don't really fix them as they go because no ones ever made a big enough stink about it
Ghostface leaning and stalking
Myers stalking
Plagues bile
Blights rushes
Weskers dashes
ect
ect
ect (im lazy with more examples but its at least half the roster)
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People forget that the perk lets you see the auras of all survivor teammates, the arguably better part of it, sure 1s of chase time can save up to 0.15s of repair time, but you know what buys even more time, not interrupting teammates and being on the complete opposite side of the map by the time the chase ends
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860087#Comment_3860087
I might be misreading you, but coming out over 3 months counts as 'all at once' for DbD / Live Service.
To my understanding of how it usually works - changes and patches are planned well in advance. So the 6.2 bloodweb decrease was likely planned before the 6.1 patch, they might have just been thinking over the exact number and/or just slow rolling things.
No just because second part of it was being worked on while the first part came out doesn't mean they came out all at once
Like if we say they work on characters ~6-7 killers in advance we can't just say that legion came out with blight because they were working on them at the same time. So unless things 18 months apart come out at the same time, there is still time between the patches so its not all at once. From our perspective it is since its already been done but back then there was time between the two.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860063#Comment_3860063
Oh, was the bloodweb cost decrease later? My bad, I must've conflated those two patches in my head.
Good catch!
Yeah I forgot it too until a few months ago when I was looking into it for why people were reaching p100 and it was becoming less of an "accomplishment" but its interesting that it all came about in a burst back to back rather than all at once because it probably ended up as "this is a good idea" "this is a good follow up" "this is a good follow up but we don't have the dev time for this patch" they really did bang it out over the course of those 3 months though once the changes started flowing
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@jesterkind said:
I think it's a mistake to assume that the role incentives were intended as a replacement for the BP bonuses on BBQ and WGLF.
I think the role incentives were designed primarily to help out the matchmaking and queue time, and they're also one of the multiple things that helped lessen the bloodpoint grind going forward as a nice bonus on top of that.
In just the patch that introduced the role incentives, we also saw everything in the bloodweb get cheaper, prestiging no longer resetting your inventory, the overall bloodpoint cap increased, the in-match bloodpoint category caps increased, and the teachable perk system being overhauled to be significantly cheaper/less time consuming overall.
A later patch (I forget which) would also see us getting bloodpoints added to the free track of the Rift, further increasing the amount of bloodpoints a player is expected to have access to overall.
Overall, I would definitely argue a player's ability to get and spend bloodpoints is significantly better overall even if we compare specifically to a player running BBQ or WGLF before. That's not to say nothing can be improved, but the role incentives aren't the only thing that were meant to replace BP bonuses on perks.
Rough timeline
(6.1.0) - Prestige rework, Teachables rework, Bp incentives, -bbq and wglf bonus bp
(6.1.0) - Changes from ptb - prestige cost 50k → 20k, max points per category 8k → 10k, bloodpoint cap 1m → 2m
(6.2.0) - Bloodweb cost decrease
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@buggybug said:
You are 100% correct and I already saw this, once 6.1 happen, this game just become what it is today, and not to mention ofc its why dc/quitting has been frequent so and constant on survivors.
Dcing and giving up has been a problem for years, as long as ive been playing (since 2.6.0) survivors have been showing themselves the door at any minor inconvenience, it was even done more back then before the dc penalty came around to the point where people would jump in a locker and when the killer goes to grab them dc. You know its bad when people go out of their way to find comical ways to dc.
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@Archael said:
The rest of the trial means "it wont disapear after period of time", not "it cant be removed". If it was, it would be called "it can't be removed". I may assume that. I should assume that. But it does not means it.
Maybe for some other status effects, but since broken is a continual effect of unable to be healed by any means its impossible to remove even if it was a "limited duration", stuff like hemorrhage and mangled in the past while "infinite" were removed once healed but since you can't heal with broken by any means its fair wording, especially since we had no mither for ~8 years at this point with similar wording.
Also the broken status effect from clean break, isn't actually part of the healing, you just gain the broken status effect for 60s then become healed after 60s, this can be seen if you use vigil which will remove the broken status effect after 46s and then 14s later you become healthy, in this case you aren't "healing" through the broken status effect you are healing right after it goes away so it wouldn't work through any other broken effects.
Oh and if that wasn't enough you can't even activate clean break while already broken because no one can start healing you to activate it
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I wouldn't say nerfed when the balance to it came 14 days later, more like it was giga buffed, tested at 150% with a buffed version of its endurance, then 14 days later they decided simply buffing the endurance was enough and set the speed back to 100%
Its still 10x better than it was before no activation condition on top of picking someone off the ground
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Can't have the options to restrict your opponent in an asym, it just fits games like league the stuff you ban can't be on your team either but in a game like dbd you are only banning what your opponents can use which isn't a great idea.
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@thrkeybs said:
This isn't a topic about balance. I'm not interested in which side you think is stronger, or what needs a nerf. The topic at hand is fun, enjoyment: jouissance.
Survivor is no longer a fun role.
Strictly speaking about how the role "feels", there is no joy in playing survivor anymore.
Being slugged on the ground for 4 minutes is not fun.
Watching a killer proxy camp you, only to immediately chase you and tunnel you out is not fun.
What was fun about this game was the reward of learning loops, pallets, timings. If you played enough, you were rewarded with learning how to get better. If you spent time researching how to play the different tiles, it then became a game of chess between you and the killer: who could better mind game a loop, who could better read the other player.
This is no longer the case, as most tiles have been turned into unsafe loops, where your best play is to force a 50/50.
Most killers are no longer even interested in looping, and understandably so. Why chase a survivor in a strong tile when you can tunnel their teammate out? Lower risk, higher reward.
I know this has been talked about ad nauseam on the forums, but the finisher Mori has really incentivized another really unfun aspect: you already lost the game, as it's just you and someone else, but now you're forced to crawl around on the floor so that the killer can watch their Mori.
Again, I'm not interested in the strength of any of the things I've mentioned — I don't care. I care about having fun, enjoying the game I've paid money for and spent a lot of time investing into. There has to be a way that BHVR can make the game more enjoyable for both sides, and that's what I'm interested in.
Thats just how games are now adays
People will optimize the fun out of the game just so they can secure wins or complete them faster
Its not just a killer or survivor problem or even a dbd problem its an industry wide problem
Now in terms of dbd, Optimizing loops, optimizing check spots, abusing linked tiles, powerful items, powerful addons, powerful perks, stronger vs weaker killers, map offerings with catered builds and killers, the weaker something you use is the stronger you have to play to make up for it if you still want to win, it just happens to be that the best strategies are usually boring to the people who spent all that time to learn because its usually all dependent on the weakest link on the team not the strongest and unless you have a team of 4 of yourself killers of the same skill level as the strongest player in the lobby will almost always have a buffet starting from the bottom of a lobby.
Frankly some killers on the tier list just can't keep up under conventual "fun" strategy not every killer wants to lose so they could say they had a fun chase especially when they know if that chase ends at the exit gate its going to come with a heaping helping of tbags for their fun. Most dbd players don't appreciate if you go out of your way to do that stuff so there's almost no point in doing so unless you do it for yourself, and even then its only so fun to lose on purpose.
And as survivor yes pretty much unless the killer does one of the "forbidden sins" its usually easy matches against all but the highest tier killers or extremely stacked slowdown even in solo queue where you have teammates who are allergic to generators sometimes killer time efficiency is just rough.
Its not really about the strength of things anymore its about the mentality of the players, how they treat each other and "reward" each other for trying to be fun or skilled 90% of the time.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858580#Comment_3858580
Ngl I forgot about that effect from Boon: Illumination… I dont think it helps either, it unironically is more depressing when you consider that.
3 perks for a 25% bonus, while injured, while being looked at by the killer, while you already have a boon down, so you can place circle of healing 2.8s faster
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Boon illumination also increases it by 10% but only when you have an active boon (which is bad)