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The perk is the final piece for Camp Bubba. Fun perk
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Are you referring to Survivor or Killer lobby dodging?
I don’t see how not lobby dodging would have stopped that SM from bleeding you out or that Feng from not body blocking you
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If you’re not still slugging as Sadako, I don’t see how that’s an issue since that would just make her a weaker version of Wraith. Currently I think only Wraith really excels at Hit and Run and it would be nice to see other Killers be able to do so too as a viable strategy.
Giving 2 condemned stacks on hit + destroying the tape is a good change. Since there’s no Condemned value after hitting a Survivor once, Sadako has a choice of leaving the Survivor. The Survivor also has to make a choice of healing or finding another tape to get rid of condemned.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492283#Comment_3492283
They have kill switched broken killers before when they have been bugged out and this killer is clearly broken and is being exploited by the worst people in the community, who are using her to intentionally ruin the fun for others
Perhaps you would care to inform the devs of SM’s bugs so that they can fix her earlier? I didn’t know SM had bugs that made her broken like Wesker becoming invisible just before the anniversary event.
Please enlighten me.
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No idea why they needed to go through so much effort and get so much negative feedback in the process when the ring drawing changes and reducing the amount of TVs turned on from M1 via her Iri addon would be enough to nerf the Slugdako playstyle.
The rest of the design philosophy just screams “We want everyone to be condemned and do Tvs more often!” and “But we don’t want Survivors to keep pulling a Patrick Bateman the whole game!”
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@Dustin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491066#Comment_3491066
Calling for her to be killswitched till she gets reworked may make sense from a balance perspective but not from a business perspective. BHVR would either have to compensate players who spent money on her or put her remake as a priority. Given how their schedule is, prioritizing her remake would push other profitable projects down the line like cosmetics or new chapters which once again makes no sense from a business perspective.
This reminds me of the argument people had when Decisive Strike got reworked and people were demanding refunds because the perk got changed. Same thing happened with Freddy's complete rework. I'm pretty sure there was a statement about it that refunds wouldn't be granted. Granted I get it if the killer is killswitched for months but to be honest there's been plenty of stuff killswitched for a long duration of time. The only thing that was disabled for a lengthy period to my knowledge was Jonathan Byers from Stranger Things and that was before killswitch - can't recall if people got compensated somehow but I thought they did.
To be quite honest - I actually agree with people suggesting the killer needs to be killswitched. Genuinely one of the worst designed things I've ever seen added to this game and I've played since 2016. I'm still thinking of hatch standoffs, pallet and window vacuums and really poorly designed perks when I compare SM to old DBD. I also don't believe people are overreacting. Skull Merchant is the only killer I've consistently seen people either DC or walk up to the killer and point to a hook so they can go next. The majority of people who value their time would rather suicide on hook against SM.
By killswitching her especially when SM is not bugged, the devs are acknowledging that they created a defective product and pushed it to live. It’s not a good look for the company especially to their stakeholders.
While I have thought that BHVR’s PR is sketchy at times, they’re being smart this time in not killswitching her. Killswitches are supposed to be reserved for bugs. Killswitching her because enough people complained and a custom match happened will set a precedent that people can get other things that they don’t like killswitched if they complain enough in the future on the forums.
I have said it a few times already but people are blowing things out of proportion. From an outsider point of view, people are asking for a company’s product to be recalled indefinitely until it is fixed not because it is faulty or dangerous, but because people don’t like it and some people who were very experienced with the company’s products tested it and their “feedback” was publicized to others.
Ngl people are just letting the fact that it was team Eternal mess with their perception of the issue. How much people still play SM regularly? How many SM matches were stalled out like what happened in the custom match? Are the numbers justifiable to do a knee jerk response via killswitching instead of just adding her rework to the list of things to be done? The devs probably already know the answers and are acting based on them.
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If you think that macro gameplay is fine, you might also want to consider that the Killer got the first hit on you and doesn’t want to continue because they realized via perks or game sense that there was a much more important target to interrupt like two survivors sitting on a soon to be completed gen.
Players who do macro gameplay have an internal clock of how long they can commit to getting a hit/down/burning a pallet before they know they have to pressure other survivors. When I play Wraith, I do the same too.
This game is a 1v4, not a 1v1.
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@Sharby said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GT791WXADZ8K/bubba.jpg
Just adding on another example, dude failed the facecamp and then tunneled THEN facecamped again, gave this excuse.
Why even play killer lol?
Not sure if you were part of it but 3/4 of that team seems to be a swf given how 3 people just happened to have MFT + Resilience and were all on anon mode.
Also that Rebecca was running No Mither, which is kind of painting a target on her back lol.
More context is probably needed but the Killer might have figured that it was a swf before or during the match, prompting them to change their playstyle accordingly. Camping and tunneling are usual turn to strategies against swf because altruism if executed wrongly can give the Killer a chance to snowball.
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There’s no reason to play weak Killers more frequently if strong ones exist. Even if the strong Killers got nerfed, they would probably still be stronger than weaker Killers.
Devs focus more on new content than things like buffing old Killers because there’s barely any profit to be made from doing so. Also if matchmaking “works”, the frequency of weaker Killers will probably be even less common at higher MMR levels.
I like to think I have some experience with Freddy but I also don’t see the point of constantly playing him in the current meta
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i get someone with a history of being banned every other game. No point playing with them.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491055#Comment_3491055
Has that ever happened? It's definitely not happened for any PTB in recent memory, unless I'm missing something.
From what I recall, Singularity received changes post PTB and even after he was released. However I’ve always had a feeling someone at BHVR doesn’t like Sadako based on her original and proposed kit. Fingers crossed.
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Calling for her to be killswitched till she gets reworked may make sense from a balance perspective but not from a business perspective. BHVR would either have to compensate players who spent money on her or put her remake as a priority. Given how their schedule is, prioritizing her remake would push other profitable projects down the line like cosmetics or new chapters which once again makes no sense from a business perspective.
I think people are just overreacting to this whole fiasco. It was a custom match to test the potential of SM, that’s about it. Unless people were copying this strategy and applying it to public games constantly, the amount of people who might actually have an hour long game is probably going to be a statistically small amount. I recall Hens also did another video showcasing how long it would take to break a 3 gen on Dead Dwag with pre nerfed SM so this video is nothing new tbh.
Maybe people more familiar with comp Meta can shed some light on this but are stall + 3 gen games common in the comp scene? If even Team Eternal rarely comes across such a playstyle that it would make sense that they would have a harder time as compared to the usual looping and being efficient on gens playstyle.
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If they still go ahead with the ptb changes without tweaking anything, it goes to show that the PTB feedback section is a farce. The majority of the feedback from there acknowledges that her PTB form needs some changes.
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Haven’t seen the vod yet but using one game to complain on SM again seems a bit excessive.
I don’t see why Overcharge has to be nerfed. The bonus regression penalty is based on Survivors making a mistake. While team Eternal is very strong, I’m sure they didn’t become the best team via hitting Skillchecks.
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A hook state counter for each Survivor on the Killer HUD would be nice for starters.
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@Saiph said:
How ironical, the same forum crowd who regularly explains us how facecamping/slugging are valid strategies and "Your fun isn't my responsibility", is now also claiming that DC penalties are very important and BHVR must do everything in their power to prevent survivors from dodging their matches. Of course we understand that it's important for you, that the person who gets facecamped for 2 minutes is a real player and not a bot. But don't worry I'm sure you will "adapt" and find a more healthy playstyle after 10 games of facing bots.
Also good to know that "lobby shopping" is apparently a big problem when survivors do it, meanwhile killers were able to do it for years, why did I not see you guys complain before?
Removing the DC penalty means the amount of people DC-ing will increase because there is no punishment to DC and no incentive to not DC. In the long term, this will mess with the data gathered from trials which may lead to more balance mistakes from the devs because there is a bot in every other game.
People getting annoyed at the DC penalty works both ways, a Survivor can also get annoyed at the Killer DC-ing because they will have to spend more time waiting for another game or might even depip at higher ranks because the game did not go on long enough.
Maybe instead of trying to argue the validity of DC penalties with shallow points, you could think of the long term advantages and disadvantages removing the penalties would have on everyone?
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Would be nice if there was a countermeasure for people trying to use it offensively/altruistically if it was buffed. That was the most obnoxious thing about it pre nerf.
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Just don’t play Killer if you don’t enjoy it.
People will try to change your perspective of the win condition for Killer or tell you to get better.
But no one can criticize you for not playing that role. The earlier people come to terms with and accept this simple fact, the better.
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Matchmaking issue
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484739#Comment_3484739
When did Bloodlust get toned down recently. If anythign last year hitting BL 2 and 3 became faster. Unless we are comparing it to when BL was introduced and tiles were even stronger than now.
This already applis with certain perks and killers still don't like. Look at the 100th MFT. Killers are like "but good survivors get value from it" which is the whole point. Or killers complaining about WoO which is only useful to SOLO survivors cause seal SWFs already callout the pallets the used and the deadzones.
Also read the posts complaining about the new anti-camping mechanic and hook grabs being removed and convince me camping is actually a high IQ strat that can only be done by people who have 6 fingers because of how mechanically demanding it is. As well as convince that actually tunneling prestige 1 Claud/Meg/Dwight/David is also just as skillful and mechanically demanding. I'll be waiting.
I was referring to a fictional scenario where more pallets were designed to be mindgamable, god pallets were removed and bloodlust numbers toned down so there would be more expression of skill at loops from both the Killer and Survivor.
Not sure why you would go on a tangent about Killers camping and what not. I just expressed in my post that if Killers are expected to express skill and not rely on crutch strats to play the game, then the same should be expected of Survivor players as well.
In an ideal world, if a Huntress managed to land every hatchet shot against Survivors in a game, the Survivor players should take the loss as a sign that they should improve their ability to dodge them instead of just complaining “Hatchets are broken and should be nerfed”. The same works vice versa as well.
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I guess if DC penalties are removed, I can DC as Killer if I feel that I’m not able to win the match and I don’t want to play with these survivors anymore.
Or maybe I’ll just DC when I see offering or last minute same character switch.
Seems legit to me
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People will just dc for the smallest thing like hearing a Nurse shriek 5 seconds into the game if penalties are removed.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483600#Comment_3483600
arbitrarily, killers should need to do well in the chase to gain longer gens. giving such huge gen increases for free may leads to killer winning when they do not deserve to win.
The words “Chase better” would make more sense if most of the pallets in the game were designed to be mind gameable, god pallets were deleted + Bloodlust numbers toned down
If Killers are expected to demonstrate skillful play via chase to win, the same should apply for Survivors.
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Outdated everything
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@nars said:
Finally someone actually gets that boring meta=/=kill every perk in it. I feel like the meta for killer was healthier pre 6.1.0. No braindead gen kick meta. More than 2 non killer specific good slowdown perks. At least ruin undying took two perk slots, and had no synergy with PGTW while they were active. original pain res was stupid busted though, even though it rewarded skill it was just too good
Healthier but Survivor Queues were 10 minutes because playing Killer sucked even more back then lol
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3 gen existed way before 6.7
If anything, it’s one of the few macro strategies left for Killer
I don’t see how 3 gen can be fixed without making maps bigger, but we know what happens when maps are bigger.
If survivors didnt try to do gens on opposite sides of the map at the start, it’s a gameplay issue and they should have a harder time later on because of it.
Given how most gen regression perks have been nerfed, I wouldn’t be surprised if 3 gen is on its way to becoming as uncommon as a sweaty 4 man swf.
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Counters are fine only if they come with a risk or are not easy to accomplish. Cleansing the sickness with Plague gives her the choice of activating a temporary ranged attack. Solving Pinhead’s box reveals the Survivor leaving them open to be interrupted via chains or forced to get into chase with the Killer. Using vaccines or sprays against Nemesis and Wesker activates Killer Instinct and reduces a limited resource for Survivors. Even deactivating a drone for Skull Merchant makes the Survivor vulnerable to being tracked, gives the Killer a speed boost and has built in dissolution.
In Singularity’s case, there is no downside to picking up, holding and using the EMP since it is not a limited item. The same goes for the proposed Sadako ptb changes, the only downside of holding the tape is the potential to get additional stacks if you are hit while dropping off the tape is not difficult and shields the holder from Condemned stacks. It’s fine if a Survivor can counter a Killer’s power, but it shouldn’t be easy to do so or have no/barely any risk involved.
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This would work prior to the matchmaking changes where survivor queues took 10 minutes. However it will not work as much as it did now. You can also get a team above your skill level because a) enough people dodged them or b) there isn’t a Killer matching their skillcap queuing online. You can “throw” games, but it doesn’t mean that you will stay in the beginner player bracket forever .
If anything, I would say tanking your MMR would unintentionally push the survivors you let escape go further up the MMR ladder, they get destroyed by someone who is better than them and is playing to win, and eventually you meet them in your lobby again.
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On my way to play more Wesker after work.
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@jeffkillsyou96 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481047#Comment_3481047
And you don’t see any problem with that?!
The signs of devs deciding to make things easier for everyone and lowering the ceiling for skillful play have already being obvious for sometime.
I would argue that prior to the flashlight changes, I would still try to dodge flashlights without Lightborn because it was harder to get the timing right and dodging it felt good. These days because it’s so much easier to land a blind, running Lightborn is just a better option. Looking at walls when picking up survivors is fine and all, but sometimes the map doesn’t allow for that luxury
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Maybe because he was the most recent released Killer that actually feels good to play and it’s been almost a year since his release
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@jeffkillsyou96 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3479984#Comment_3479984
Well I just feel it’s killers who get destroyed nearly every game cause they have LB equipped and not an efficient perk/build and I feel their voices are being heard more than actual good players
I don’t care what perks you use but I just feel if you’re not good at both roles then your opinions should be invalid and LB is one of those key perks that if I see someone use then they shouldn’t be taken seriously
I just feel the game is revolving around bad players and it’s not good for the game
Well, the game is being balanced around the casual bad player, so there isn’t any incentive to get better because any expression of skill is just going to be invalidated via complains anyway.
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To be honest, if I hooked someone in the middle of my 3 gen, I don’t really see the point of leaving the general area because I’m defending the generators and keeping an eye on potential rescuers at the same time. If anything, leaving the hook would be misplaying and potentially throwing the game. I don’t see how going for another chase at another part of the map can be more rewarding that staying in such a scenario.
Devs may want Killers to leave the hook but sometimes it makes more sense to stay.
The only way I can see them fixing this is to change unhooking to survivors having to interact with mechanisms around the map to unhook a survivor automatically, this would encourage the Killers to go around the map to prevent an unhook. If unhooked, the Survivor would spawn in a random part of the map. Naturally hooking would have to be more rewarding for such a change
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Not sure why Lightborn is an issue, the Killer is essentially sacrificing a perk slot to counter an item. If it causes a “learning deficit”, that’s on them and not you, why do you care?
Even if the majority of the playerbase uses Lightborn and are “garbage”, they aren’t breaking the rules of the game by equipping the perk, if anything it feels more like you’re upset about getting countered by the perk and are trying to gaslight players into not using it.
If people want to be bad at the game, let them be. Who are you to judge?
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Canon event for people who play Killer, it can’t be avoided.
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i see you glossed over the fact that map design is the reason why bloodlust still exists. Very thought provoking.
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The exposed and mind pallet breaks actually made playing weaker M1 Killers feel better.
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BHVR would have to rework the self unhook mechanic and all the perks and offerings associated along with coming up with a system smart enough to tell if someone is suiciding on hook intentionally and turn said someone into a bot even though that person has technically already died?
That sounds like too much work and effort.
On a side note, DC penalty shouldn’t be removed. DC bots are a bandaid fix, not the solution to why people DC
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Not sure if you noticed this was a potential swf before or after the match. If you did know before the game, switching your build might have helped even the odds a bit.
Regardless, this team came to do M1 simulator and leave ASAP, might have been a BP farm team
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If you just want to practice your chases on an M1 Killer, you can run Devour, Undying, No One and Aura reading/Gen blocker/Regression.
If you get multiple downs early, you are rewarded with instant down or perhaps even mori if Survivors don’t find your totems in time. If your totems get cleansed before you get value, No One gives you a final power spike at the end of the game.
Wraith is a decent beginner Killer to use because his addons have the potential for different builds, Speed Wraith, Fast Uncloak, Fast Pallet breaks, Sloppy etc
Watch people play Killers such as Streamers. You may pick up some things that you can incorporate into your playstyle. Tunnel or camp if you find it fitting, STBFL helps with that. Most importantly, don’t let others tell you how you should be playing if you enjoy what you are doing and are getting results with it.
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I was under the impression the weaker Killers do decently because their pick rate is much lower, therefore a 4k for them would result in a higher Kill rate than a 4k on Nurse.
Unless devs did equal sampling for all the Killers when it comes to Kill rates but I don’t think that’s the case.
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It’s fine, they can take their time to monitor the perk. The worst is that people who like playing the weaker M1 Killers stop playing them because they don’t want to take Ls every game.
Then people will start wondering to themselves why fewer people are playing the weaker M1 Killers in a few months and all they see are the stronger Killers.
Literally Uroboros in the making.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3475575#Comment_3475575
People love to say this but it wouldn’t be smart to run the game with this mentality. Make the role of killer undesirable and you’re not going to have enough killers to go around. Survivor wait times blow out and no one wants to bother playing the game. I would like to think BHVR would be aware of this.
It’s not like this hasn’t happened before where 10 minute Survivor Queues were the norm.
Oh wait
I’ll say that history is repeating itself though. It will be a field day when 10 minute survivor queues return.
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If implemented, people will just DC over every petty issue, such as not liking the Killer, their build getting countered or losing a chase.
The only intentional DC that’s fine is if someone is hacking.
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Just because a Survivor got tunneled and camped doesn’t justify a free DC.
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@Nazzzak said:
I think it's fine. Alot of people complaining about it were already complaining about struggling before the perk even came out. It's just another thing to point the finger at. Even if BHVR completely eliminated the perk, they'd still be here the next week complaining about something else.
And if we want to start adding conditions to perks, then killer perks are fair game too. No more benefit to just kicking a gen (if getting injured is just typical gameplay, then so is gen kicking). No more Lethal Pursuer, which I see in every second game at least, activating by just spawning into the game. Corrupt too, I guess, since again all you have to do to get the benefit is spawn in.
While I didn’t mention it explicitly, I was referring to perks that grant haste benefits requiring conditions to activate for both Killer and Survivor.
If Killers got a perk that automatically gave them 3% movement speed when chasing injured Survivors which stacks with Bloodlust or other haste granting perks along with exposing survivors who complete a healing action within the Killer’s terror radius for 10 seconds, what do you think the response to the perk would be?
I would think it’s too much and warrants a nerf or a huge restriction be imposed on the perk. That’s how I view MFT too.
MFT in its current form can be implemented if maps are updated to be more balanced or the weaker killers are updated to be stronger. However it is pretty obvious that the devs do not have the capacity to accomplish either anytime soon so the easier alternative would be to be very strict with balancing haste giving perks.
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The perk gives too much without requiring much to activate it.
Boon Dark Theory requires the boon to be set up and has a limited radius
Hope requires the Survivor to survive till end game for value
Play With Your Food requires the Killer to get into a chase with the Obsession and drop chase
There is barely any cost required to get value out of the perk, being injured is something that commonly happens in the game already so the Survivor doesn’t need to do anything special to activate this perk.
If it lasted for X amount of seconds after being injured, the perk would be ok, but it has unlimited duration, stacks with other haste effects and has a secondary endurance effect for altruistic plays. That’s too much.
Either limit what the perk can offer or add a more meaningful condition to activate it.
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Someone at BHVR has some fear that Sadako will become a very oppressive Killer if left unchecked. This was evident from her current design whereby teleporting to tvs have a longer cooldown than Survivors turning them off, penalizing her for using her power and her Lullaby when demanifested and movement speed slow when manifesting despite being an M1 Killer.
This fear seems to have carried over to the proposed remake of her by making it easier to get rid of Condemned and adding a cooldown to her tp.
Hilariously enough, there is a playstyle oriented around Sadako not using her power with the Oblivious and Blindness addons and walking around manifested. It is so much easier to get that initial hit as compared to projection similar to Freddy in the Dream World.
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I doubt there will be sufficient Killer players waiting around for devs to buff most if not all the weaker Killers to catch up, 10 minute Survivor queues would have made a comeback by that time.
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The addon pass and whether the amount of condemned lost from putting in a tape has been changed will make or break her rework.
The issues that new Sadako will face is
1) Holding tapes for a prolonged period offer no demerit apart from gaining condemned when hit
2) It is too easy for Survivors to deposit their tapes to remove condemned if any tv works.
I suspect Iri video tape will be nerfed and ring drawing will be changed. These two addons are the reason for the slug condemn strategy and BHVR will not let it go unchecked.
On the flipside, Iri Remote Control will become a pretty decent add on offering almost constant aura reading since Survivors will probably hold on to their tapes and do gens.