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If the underperforming addons got changed to debuffs like Oblivious, Exhaustion, Hindered, Action speed penalty etc for Survivors who are holding tapes, these would help nullify the “hold tape almost all game” strategy.
I would also like to see more area of effect debuffs when Survivors are near a powered or depowered tv.
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472121#Comment_3472121
Funny, because last year I was quoting killrates of 50% and people like you were telling me "there's no way the killrates are that high, these stats are outdated". Then the official killrates were revealed and were at 60%, lol.
But keep being delusional I guess... There are dozens of streamers routinely getting 10+ or even 100+ winstreaks, one Blight player is at 1000+ right now. How weird they never face the OP survivors you guys keep complaining about on these forums. How weird that when these streamers switch to survivor, they suddenly get spanked by killers who have 1/50th of their hours, how weird, almost like killer is ez mode.
While BHVR isn’t the best at sharing interpreted data, I would be in favor of looking at recent up to date numbers instead of dropping 60% casually. Given how much changes the game has undergone such as the addition of the Survivor HUD, the rise and fall of the gen kick meta, dead hard nerf and heal changes, the Kill rates not fluctuating much would be a surprise.
Your thoughts on streamers getting decimated by Killers may have some weight, but streamers don’t make up the entire playerbase.
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Devs can’t flat out punish tunneling and camping because a lot of people will lose even more as Killer which may lead to them quitting the role, then the game will revert to 10 min Survivor Queues again.
They either don’t know how to balance the game if tunneling and camping was completely killed or don’t want to. So they go about it in indirect ways like introducing base kits, perks and things like anti face camp. Given how scorched earth BHVR can be with nerfing perks, it’s quite obvious something is holding them back when it comes to killing camping and tunneling for good.
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Numbers can still be changed. I’m interested to see what they have planned for the addon passes.
Other than that, the proposed changes seem to be putting too much agency in Survivors’ hands yes
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Forced Hesitation + STBFL sounds more attractive with this change.
Hook grabbing should be enabled in the endgame, otherwise it’s going to be a free save.
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Lol people still quoting 60% from almost a year ago.
At this point that number is just a meme number.
To OP
I suggest not playing Killer if you aren’t having a fun time. You decide what your definition of fun is, be it using meme builds and getting 0-1 kills or meta strats and sweating for 3-4 kills. Don’t let others gaslight you into deciding what’s fun. Some people may have a different Killer experience from you, but region/time that you play/Killers that you like will influence the experience that you have.
If you don’t like Killer already, don’t play the role for your mental health. This game isn’t worth it. You deserve better.
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Ironically the expose and pallet break abilities made playing the weak M1 Killers like Trapper and Sadako more bearable
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Depip is extremely outdated. No idea why it’s still in the game if ranks aren’t a measure of skill anymore.
It adds insult to injury after a bad game on both sides and offers nothing of value.
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Pop. I held a 4 gen long enough with pop to come back from 2 hooks with 2 gens left as Nemesis.
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Because Survivors are used to only looping one M1 unit at a time, any Killer that bypasses the loop (Blight, Nurse) gets complained about.
Knight messes up looping muscle memory so people complain even after 3 gen strats have been nerfed.
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4 seconds would be better. Not sure if body blocking is considered a conspicuous action but it should disable this perk if the unhooked Survivor tried to take a hit.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470214#Comment_3470214
Vanilla reply instead of conversation, per usual. Anyone else?
I can see where you are coming from because I have a friend who also shares the same opinion as yours, however to me any game that is lost due to hackers or swf stomping is a waste of time. I have limited time to play and I rather not waste it on these two groups of people if I can help it.
Going up against stronger teams also means that I may get a depip which leads to reduced bloodpoint rewards. I still have lots of characters to level, that’s why I have been using Distressing + Beast on Wraith for this event and going for multiple hooks regardless of win or loss at the end.
Looking at your post reminded me of my friend’s attitude towards dbd as he doesn’t need bloodpoints and only goes for fun plays. Unless you have some additional benefits to justify going against stronger teams, I don’t think there’s much to converse about.
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Too much effort for average reward. Play smart, not hard.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470207#Comment_3470207
Dodging swf is for the weak. I like improving at the game, so Ill take whatever is thrown at me. I suggest you do the same. Really, its not that bad.
Good for you. I’ll play the game how I want, thanks.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470098#Comment_3470098
That's what I have been trying to say also but a lot of these ppl arent listening really or maybe Im not framing my words right. I personally wouldn't care less about MfT in its current form if the maps were more balanced and the low-tier killers were stronger but that's not the dbd we have or will ever have tbh. The attempts at rebalancing maps haven't really done much since they still feel bad to play on as killer. Crows is better than before yeah but still a pain to play on imo.
As for buffing weak killers, the devs haven't shown any signs of doing that. In fact, regarding the two of the weakest and out-of-date killers(Myers and Trapper) the dev team has said that they are happy where those two are and have no plans in changing them in the near future if ever. Even when they do want to change an older killer it takes them years to do so, as you said look at Twins for that example. The more realize request to make is for MfT to be changed since they will most likely happen than a bunch of maps being rebalanced or low-tier killers being buffed/changed. So ppl so see reason tho and just want their new toy to abuse and play with under the guidance of "it's fun". Well, it's not fun for me who enjoys playing m1 killers and has to see this perk 3 or more times in a single match.
The motivations of the devs are easier to understand from a profit perspective. Changing old maps or old Killers doesn’t bring enough profit to justify the change because maps are free and buffing a Killer won’t bring in a huge influx of sales. That is why they rather focus all their efforts on new chapters and characters because those have more potential to generate profit.
Given their track record, they will probably ‘nerf’ MFT with something like reducing the endurance duration, milk the perk for a year or so and finally kill it for good like Circle of Healing.
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It will and should get nerfed. If maps were more balanced and the weaker Killers were stronger, restoring the perk to the original version would be fine.
Knowing BHVR, their timeline for buffing Killers or maps is so long that nerfing the perk first would make more sense. Twins remake was announced last year and there’s still no hint of this happening.
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Going for hooks alone without strategy won’t win games for the average player.
I played 4 matches back to back as Wraith using Distressing, Beast of Prey, Jolt and Fearmonger. I tried not to tunnel and didn’t camp until endgame.
1st game: 3 Survivors escaped
2nd game: 4 Survivors escaped
3rd game: 3 Survivors escaped
4th game: 0 Survivors escaped
I was farming BP so I tried to get as much hits along with hit and run. 6-7 hooks for the first 3 games and 11 for the 4th game.
Add ons were Swift Hunt (White) and Blind Warrior (White). Of course my experience isn’t representative of the population since my region has lots of sweaty survivors but it is what it is.
Survivors and devs may want Killers to go for chases and hooks but unfortunately the game is balanced for kills.
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Think those “Don’t chase Survivors with MFT” comments would make more sense if the Killer had some sort of indicator that the Survivor was running MFT.
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Playing Singularity really makes it obvious that the devs don’t play the Killers they design.
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Survivors will have more W and Killers will take more L.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3467608#Comment_3467608
You mostly right and I have myself to blame also since I didnt even try to tunnel. The only 4 hooks I had was on each suvivor. There was times I could had tunnel someone off hook but decided to go after the unhooker. That much I will say it was my fault.
It’s great that you’re aware of how you could have potentially swung the game into your favor. At least you have a better idea of what to do the next time you come across such a team again.
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Nerfing MFT would affect sales for the new chapter, doesn’t take a genius or spreadsheets to see the motivation behind it.
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Temple is a bad map. MFT made you lose harder since staying injured against Plague is common. This looks like a swf which stacks the odds against you even more.
Camping wouldn’t have worked much unless you hooked the Survivor with Reassurance. This game was a hard one for you to comeback from the start
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Exposed on bloodlust gives weaker M1 killers a fighting chance. It doesn’t really benefit the stronger killers who are using their power most of the time.
Pallet break and spawn is ok
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Yes, I will DC if I am the only one that bought an event offering as Killer while the Survivors bought Macmillan basement offering with Shroud
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Buffing old Killers doesn’t have much profit return so their changes get shelved.
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It’s ok. Been getting several less experienced Killers and gen rushing team mates.
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Good recommended changes. It is kinda of sad that Sadako using her power via tv interaction hurts her more than Survivors.
Surprisingly, , Rickety Pinwheel and Sea soaked Cloth along with a manifested walking Sadako that doesn’t TP works occasionally in some matches.
Survivors expect the lullaby or the manifestation before getting hit, giving them ample time to react, but the oblivious effect means that they will not be able to see a manifested Sadako walking into them at a gen especially with LOS blockers, catching them off guard.
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Gen defense isn’t as viable as before. Downing one person and hooking them before proceeding onto the next chase takes too much time. Endgame builds are unreliable.
Expect to see more proxy camping or slugging when the anti face camp mechanic is added.
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They need to rebalance the game from the base if they want to remove tunneling and camping, band aid fixes won’t fix that.
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The perk is a indirect counter to dissolution, but it’s fine
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If MFT is really not that busted as some people put it, usage rate should die off after a while since the Singularity patch is still fresh.
If multiple people still continue to run it over exhaustion perks in a few months, then people will have to find a new narrative to explain this phenomenon.
I just thought of a possible loadout and playstyle that counters some aspects of this perk and will test it out. Most people probably won’t like it, but it is what it is.
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458939#Comment_3458939
How does the item change make playing Nemesis or Wesker useless? Care to explain? Sounds more like a massive hyperbole to me.
With old Franklins, hitting a Survivor with a syringe or spray can would make it drop but not lose charges. Therefore a Hoarder Franklins build would allow Nemesis/Wesker to interrupt Survivors from removing infection, which can be devastating especially on Wesker. While the Killers aren’t affected as much as compared to Pinhead, it removes build variety in a meta that is already restricting viable builds for Killers.
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https://youtu.be/hpgchXyKu68?t=1067
Posting the Sadako BL 3 vs Resilience + MFT video with timestamp. I’m sure some people will still find some reason for it being a niche scenario and totally unrepresentative of the majority of the games. Please note that I am not the creator of this video and please do not harass him.
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@Rovend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458996#Comment_3458996
Look, this is what i really dislike when people want to prove X perk is strong.
You take a weak m1 killer(sadako), then take a specific tile on a specific map, then take a certain survivor with a specific build that is focusing on looping and after this perfect scenario where everything is set for the perk to work fine you conclude is not a niche perk.
Imagine if i would say that mft is a weak perk because i went against a nurse in glenvale and she tunneled me at 5 gens.
I could quote another example. Prior to the new patch, I could get decent value from Wraith Dissolution since getting the first hit was easy, but against MFT users, that 3% boost gives them more distance to not have to vault a pallet while the perk is up, forcing me to have to break the pallet.
I ran Plague against two survivors running MFT and they didn’t even need to cleanse until end game because being injured benefited them so much more in chase.
One could argue that MFT only affects weaker Killers and balancing those Killers would be better in the long run. However given BHVR’s track record, I don’t see the balance happening anytime soon.
Given how much the odds are already stacked against weaker Killers, wouldn’t adding a perk that hurts their chases even more either push players to stop playing Killer or only play Blight, Nurse etc in the long run?
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Game isn’t balanced for chases, it’s balanced around kills.
Any player who has played Killer awhile understands this.
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Seeing a Sadako on bloodlust 3 not be able to catch up to a Claudette running MFT + Resilience on a Macmillan pallet tile has convinced me that it’s not a “niche” perk.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458226#Comment_3458226
If veteran killer numbers have dropped off then veteran survivor numbers likely have too. Especially since lots of people play both roles. You only have to read past threads asking who lobby dodges to see a lot of players do, and their reasoning is usually always that they want easier games (ie solo players instead of swfs)
It takes more Survivors to quit for Killers to experience longer queue times constantly, so the ratio isn’t exactly 1:1
If enough people were dodging lobbies for it to be an issue, then perhaps devs should start asking why people lobby dodge? Is it as simple as wanting to have easier games only?
I do agree that I dodge for easier games, but I also dodge lobbies if at least one Survivor has a history of being banned, their name is made up of numbers and random alphabets or have legacy cosmetics with a few hours in the game because I suspect them to be cheaters. I could argue that removing lobby dodging would increase the likelihood of getting a cheater too.
I know some streamers who also dodge the lobby if they see another streamer/content creator because they want to avoid any potential drama from the match. They have a valid reason given how toxic some streamers/communities can be.
Until devs start asking or taking notice, I don’t see any reason to not lobby dodge or lobby for it to be removed.
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If anything, MFT incentivises not healing in a meta where the only real slowdown for Killers is Survivors healing. Decent Survivors are just not going to heal and do gens since they have that bit more movement speed to make it to a safe tile.
Even some visual indicator that a Survivor has this perk equipped would be nice, rather than leave the Killer wondering the whole match if they misplayed at certain tiles until the endgame perk screen. The Killer would also has the choice to decide whether to continue the chase ingame, just like how the Killer could choose to “wait it out” for DH.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458226#Comment_3458226
I can't be everywhere at once :(
Makes you really wonder how many veteran killer players still actually play the game. Reverting the matchmaking logic back to the original strict version even for one week might reveal some unpleasant truths.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458159#Comment_3458159
Uh you realize you're probably getting those 6-8k survivors because the veteran killers who were originally matched with them have likely dodged? So less experienced killers end up as backfill. If lobby dodging is stopped then chances are you'll likely stop getting those survivors.
Or it could be a case that there aren’t enough veteran killers to play with these survivors to begin with.
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MFT hurts weaker Killers. Sure it can avoid the nerf stick for a few months, but this dissuades people from playing weaker Killers or even the Killer role. Then people will start complaining about only seeing Blights or Nurses in their games again and wonder why no one will play other Killers.
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I’ll continue to shop for lobbies as long as I keep getting potential cheaters and 6-8k hour players thanks
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MFT and Resilience turns some loops into infinites even with bloodlust on a 4.6m Killer without Hope in play.
If people think this is acceptable, then I have nothing to say.
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High Reward High Risk
25% reduction is huge. However if you hook someone when there isn’t a gen with progress, you just wasted 1/4 of the perk.
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3 points of MFT that are all equally annoying in their own right.
1) Synergy with other haste perks. MFT + Hope increases the likelihood of getting a hook save and escaping in the endgame plus dragging out chases even more.
2) Synergy with other exhaustion perks. The only exhaustion perks I can think of that doesn’t work with MFT is overcome and Sprint Burst. DH, Lithe and BL still work perfectly fine. When running these perks, MFT acts as a complement by encouraging Survivors to use their exhaustion perk after they are injured. That 3% haste would give them a bit more distance to reach that vault, high ground or loop. Having more leeway to use their exhaustion perk after they are injured means that the Killer is forced to invest more time into the chase. This also hurts the Hit and Run playstyle because Survivors have more time to get to a safe structure even if they are injured. Good loopers have even lesser reason to heal now.
3) I’m surprised that not much people have caught on it yet but the secondary effect of MFT rewards greedy plays. Picking up a slug or healing a unhooked Survivor under the hook while injured could be punished by the Killer in the past, but with this perk, the survivor gets a free health state and the 3% haste.
While healing and medkits were nerfed to counteract most gen regression perks being nerfed, this one perk alone gives Survivors even lesser reason to heal/reset which translates to more time spent on conspicuous actions.
This perk offers too much for just the simple cost of being injured and non exhausted. BHVR left this perk as it is not because they thought it was balanced, they left it so that more people would buy Soma. Unlike Scavenge/Hyperfocus which only applies to gen rushing, MFT can be used almost universally, on Survivors who like chases and Survivors who like to sit on gens.
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This just kills build variety. While barely used, Wesker could also use Hoarder and Franklins with a fast infection build and pressure survivors who try to remove the infection.
Pinhead’s nerf is the biggest one. Auto solving the box with a down minimized the pressure of Chain Hunt because the remaining survivors would have broken the initial 3 chains and be on the way to grabbing the box by the time Pinhead had hooked the downed Survivor, leaving him with barely any time to capitalize on Chain Hunt.
With this new change, I will probably just slug the downed survivor holding the box instead of hooking them so that I can get more pressure while Chain Hunt is active.
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If Swf can’t be nerfed, people have to accept that Solo queue will forever be trailing behind Killer in terms of balance.
Solo Queue will continue to complain about Killer sided and Killers will continue to complain about Swf sided.
Balancing them without touching swf is not achievable given bhvr’s track record at balance unfortunately.