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There’s a lot of conflicting advice on how a Killer “should” play, they are supposed to chase survivors, but when they complain of long chases due to Survivors chaining loops or structures, they’re told to drop chase and go pressure other Survivors and repeat the whole process again. They haven’t made any progress in their objective while Survivors have been cranking gens the whole time.
Any Killer player with some basic map knowledge would know it’s not worth to chase someone into a strong area when the gens they are supposed to be protecting are on the other side of the map. So it would be logical to defend an area with a larger spread of gens aka 3 gen, but I guess people will just call it “lazy” or “unfun”.
It seems more like your average Survivor wants the Killer to do dumb stuff and play the game their way, but when the Killer has a brain and refuses to play along, people start gaslighting the Killer for playing smart.
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Generators felt faster even with the increased timers post 6.1.0 because it became harder for one Survivor to run the Killer for 5 gens. Survivors had more time to mess around doing totems or opening chests and could still escape relatively easily. The first few weeks of 6.1.0 had Survivors going down in chases quickly which led a good bunch of the playerbase to realize that they couldn’t mess around and be inefficient on gens anymore.
Rather than gen rushing, Survivors just learnt to be more efficient on gens over time. Add in your gen rush perks + toolboxes for some cases and Killers have the common scenario of losing 2-3 gens after the first chase.
Toolboxes and gen rush perks alone weren’t the sole reason for gens flying by quickly, Survivors just stopped giving themselves side quests.
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I think there’s some confusion in game direction which comes from trying to appeal to everyone. Balancing the game for the majority means that MMR should not exist in the game and people should get Killers ranging from sweaty Blights to baby Trappers. However if the game wants to have MMR, then it has to be balanced based on the top % of the players.
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Just stop playing Killer, you can come back after the Killer population declines again and Devs introduce new incentives/ buffs for the role.
The playing chill to get more chill games theory doesn’t even work from a long term perspective. Even if more people play chill, Matchmaking will still put them against better Survivors if no Killer is online to entertain said Survivors.
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This change is fine if they buff the less mobile Killers. Making maps smaller will still lead to 3 gens.
Is there even a significant amount of matches been held hostage via 3 gen by the Killer in the latest patch when regression perks have been severely nerfed? I find that a bit hard to believe.
If only a few people are pulling it off, then it seems more like a case of bad matchmaking than an issue that is affecting the playerbase as a whole.
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Not sure why there is a reason to complain about this when regression perks in general have been gutted.
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Wesker counters hold W and skilled players can also outplay Survivors at some loops. Wouldn’t be surprised why people would play him over Trapper
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@CatnipLove said:
The game sadly needs these changes. If these forums are representative of Killer players in general, then they are mostly entitled kids, who scream and cry whenever they don't get their way. They will even disrespect you whilst telling you that it's your fault. Full blown cry bullies.
I guess all Killer players should stop playing since they are entitled kids and are clearly not mature enough for DBD.
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If you plan to main Killer, don’t bother.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432432#Comment_3432432
Then why is the Killer at +100% BP every single night?
Actually, it is good that the Killer BP incentive is at 100%. Fewer Killers playing will mean more wait times for Survivors which leads back to devs taking action to boost the Killer population again.
6.7.0 showed me that BHVR will only take drastic action if they run the risk of losing their main playerbase AKA Survivors. It always felt to me like devs dangled a huge carrot in front of players in that patch to get them to play Killer more, then chip that carrot off bit by bit until the game balance goes back to what it once was pre 6.1.0.
The Survivor UI was already a hint of this when people started reposting the narrative of “Bring solo queue closer to swf then buff Killers to compensate” which makes no sense if swf specifically can’t be nerfed.
If anti camping does go through, expect to see more slugging and tunneling. When more people start complaining about slugs, devs will unveil the Finisher mori and Unbreakable base kit as the solution.
For the sake of the game, I hope I am wrong about this.
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Just stop playing or minimize time spent on Killer. I’m sure there are more than enough Killer players out there to accomodate
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The only playstyle that is “fun” to Survivors is 12 hooking everyone. Any other playstyle gets complained about. Gen Defense, Totems, Tunneling, Camping and Slugging. Even some people are complaining about Hit and Run recently.
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Devs are busy fixing maps but release new maps that also require fixing like Borgo and GOJ
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@Saiph said:
I think at the very least killers should be able to see who is in SWF with whom.
So many times you play "nice" because you think you're facing solos, and near the end suddenly all survivors start bodyblocking for each other, 99' gens with adrenaline and instantly open the doors etc.
As a result killers start playing sweaty every match because it's too risky to assume you're not against a 4-man SWF.
One day I played against a TTV with 3 globes so I assumed they were solos. I lost the match and thought the survivors played insanely well. Then I watched the VOD and realized that they were a 4-man SWF. Within the first 15 sec of the match I had basically all my perks called and my position transmitted 24/7 because one of them had object of obsession, while I was trying to play stealthy. This kind of advantage is not fair, and had I known they played this way, I would have played very differently. But if I had not watched the VOD, I wouldn't even had thought they were a SWF, just that I was very unlucky.
People who wanted to gaslight you would say that the likelihood of meeting a 4 man swf is low or you can still win even with the information handicap.
Just play like each match is a 4 man swf.
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Fair game. Blame the matchmaking restrictions, not the player.
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Wasn’t SM introduced to be an alternative pick in the comp scene? If a strong swf needed to have a proper strategy and coordination to break this Killer’s 3 gen, then there is viability for her in a comp scenario. Granted the majority of the population does not play comp but if the devs wanted more variety in comps apart from Nurse/Blight, then SM fits their vision.
If you look at SM from a comp scene design perspective, she’s not that bad.
Instead of the usual slam 3 gens at the start of the game while one survivor runs across the whole map and pre drops pallets, the presence of SM means the team has to give up gen efficiency and focus on breaking the 3 gen first while there are still resources on the map. SM on the other hand has a good chance of winning if she can get a Survivor hooked in the middle of a 3 gen. How she is played is quite similar to how a comp game would work out. Both parties know what they are doing and will play strategically if needed to. It’s just that pub Survivors are either not equipped or willing to play against SM because of the time a game would take.
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They could just disable hook grabs until all the gens are powered. Removing grabs would make endgame saves even more easy and uncounterable
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I got a cheater 2-3 weeks back where someone escaped from the game after they were hooked with 2 gens and 3 people left.
The amount has decreased but I have been more careful when screening lobbies. Accounts with just random numbers in them tend to be red flags.
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Killer ban only works if there is a healthy amount of people queuing as each killer most of the time.
Imagine there were 400 survivors + 100 killers queuing within a MMR range and the survivors all banned Nurse and Blight. If there were even 10 Killers who decided to queue as Nurse or Blight, these 10 players wouldn’t get a game and 40 survivors would be stuck waiting in lobby. BHVR would probably compensate for this by stretching the matchmaking range even further to grab non Nurse or Blights from other MMR. So these 40 survivors would be facing someone either below or above their skill level. Add in lobby dodges/backfill and it gets even more messy. Your idea would only work if there were enough Killers and Survivors even if the strong Killers like Nurse, Blight etc were banned.
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Maps have to be shrunk first. Given how long devs take to update maps and push out new maps with the same issues, it’s not happening anytime soon.
Having a perk that rewards chases and spreading pressure gives Killers a playstyle choice that encourages them to leave the hook. Pop, old Scourge/Ruin etc.
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The existence of swf makes it hard to balance DBD as a whole because the idea of bringing solo closer to swf and buffing Killers accordingly is honestly a pipe dream.
1)Any buff to solo queue will directly or indirectly buff swf most of the time.
2)However nerfs to solo queue may not affect swf as much (Imagine if devs removed the new Survivor Ui).
3) Swf specifically can’t be nerfed because play with friends.
4) Any nerf to Survivor on the whole targets both swf and solo queue.
Rather than two sides, DBD’s balance is more like a triangle made up of Swf, Killers and Solo Queue.
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Actually making Devour a non hex would incentivise going for multiple chases. The insta mori and insta down could be changed to 7 and 5 hooks respectively for balance
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People wanted to get into games faster 1 year ago and were ok even with being camped or tunneled because they were actually playing instead of sitting in the lobby
Now people are asking for better matchmaking and some are ok with longer waits.
Duality of Dbd
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There is no incentive for not tunneling and no severe punishment tor tunneling so why should Killers play for hooks? Killers don’t even have a hook state UI to facilitate 8 hooking everyone first.
Furthermore the idea floating around that unskilled tunneling will just put Killers against players who can punish tunneling might make sense if matchmaking was more strict. Given how backfill can match Killers with less than 1k hours against Survivors of 2-4k hours, I would say Killers would still get matched against stronger/weaker survivors regardless of their win rate and playstyle if matchmaking couldn’t find enough Killers at that moment.
So to the average Killer, if they are gonna get players above their skill level regardless of how they play, they might as well win the games they can win with tunneling and take the occasional L against better players.
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Remove lullaby, speed decrease when manifesting or introduce an add on that buffs her speed coming out of a tv
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Just like how most Killers crutched on regression perks and said perks got nerfed. DH could also be the equivalent of a crutch for Survivors given how long it has been in the game. It was necessary to minimize use of DH to justify the nerf to regression perks.
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Maps.
I would say matchmaking should be dialed back too but that’s an issue with game balance. If 10 minute queues didn’t exist one year ago because no one wanted to play Killer then, matchmaking wouldn’t be this bad
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Wraith is a stealth Killer, he’s supposed to punish bad positioning. If you were in an area where there is only one good loop and the Killer was smart enough to block that loop, then you deserve to get hit.
Killer instinct is designed to not be countered. If it could be countered or was removed, then Killer powers need to be buffed to compensate accordingly.
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SB and Lithe are fine, I don’t think they need to be nerfed. Feels more like people are still not willing to accept the DH nerf and trying to paint DH as the lesser of 2 evils in hopes of the nerf being reverted.
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I won’t say SWF are unstoppable, but having one person running alert/fogwise and constantly calling out the Killer’s location on comms does give an amplified advantage to them. The difference between having and not having Fearmonger against such a team is huge
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I wouldn’t mind DC free penalties 3-5 times a day as Killer if I don’t like the rng map I got or if the Survivors last minute swapped items/brought map offerings.
Do you agree with this OP?
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Would be nice if they left in the effect of screaming for Pain resonance, that way it could still retain some synergy with DMS after the first 4 unique hooks.
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Rather than going the long way around, perhaps devs should ask themselves why Killers are more likely to dodge a swf if the “majority” of swf aren’t that good in the first place
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If the killer ignored you and chased someone else, you might have gotten more flashlight saves.
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Most players will reveal their SB/Lithe/ BL early on rather than get injured first. DH on the other hand only gets revealed when the Surv is injured and within striking distance of a down. The Killer has a choice to decide to commit or not if the Surv reveals their exhaustion perk early on. With DH, the Killer has most likely already invested time into chasing the survivor, so extending or dropping chase after swinging into DH is a L for the Killer.
Unless the majority of Survivors start pulling off 99% SB mid chase or use their Lithe to escape an unsafe tile, pre nerf DH will still “feel” more oppressive to go up against.
Most of the exhaustion perks offer speed boost with different activation conditions, DH offered the potential for a speed boost and extra health state
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Solo Q feels bad because the matchmaking is bad + adepts and tome challenges exists.
The fix would be to have strict matchmaking but that would revert queue times to 10 min+
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Free base Unbreakable means a Survivor can just keep running to a spot of the map without any hooks nearby without repercussions. So no unless they add more hook spawns
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Use better addons and more slowdowns. Alternatively just lobby dodge till you find a team with no toolboxes
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417906#Comment_3417906
a killer deciding not to chase a survivor for no real reason is lazy, just getting the injure and instantly dropping chase, yes that's lazy
That doesn’t answer my question but sure. So what is a “real reason” that justifies dropping the chase?
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So a Killer deciding not to chase a Survivor to a strong structure like GOJ main building is lazy?
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People even have issues with hit and run now?
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Yoduru aka dokuzetu_fairy on twitter is also a pretty good Blight player albeit less known since they are Japanese. I didn’t even know Blight could jump over holes like The Game and Badham main building until I watched them pull it off.
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It works pretty well with Legion running the Oblivious + Broken Add ons. Not to mention the timer refreshes if you hit someone else while it is still active.
The annoying thing is that Survivor and Gen auras being the same color makes it hard to notice instantly. Changing gen aura colors would remedy this
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The goal to maintaining a winstreak is to use a reliable formula or strategy. It makes sense to utilize all advantages like meta perks or tunneling.
If he didn’t violate any game rules to achieve the winstreak, I fail to see the issue.
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Freddy - KingWolfe
Leatherface - Seth
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I hope that when devs decide to make changes to Blight, they aren’t doing so just because someone got a high winstreak and people were complaining.
While the actual timeline of events may differ, it felt like:
1) The concept of basekit Unbreakable was floated about after One Pump Willie’s Onryo condemnation slugging strategy became popular.
2) SupaAlf’s Nurse winstreak also gained traction sometime before Nurse changes were announced.
If all it takes for a Killer to get changed directly or indirectly is a high winstreak and enough complaints, then perhaps the players should be the ones balancing the game instead.
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A 4 man can break a 3 gen especially now that regression perks are nerfed. If the Killer was sticking to a 3 gen at the beginning of the match and refused to commit to a chase, it means the Killer will most likely have 0 hooks.
It comes to down to map knowledge and efficiency. Potential Energy is a good way of breaking the 3 gen. However with regression perks being nerfed, there will probably be a lower likelihood of Killers playing exclusively to defend a 3 gen since the strategy is weaker now. Killers are also still adapting to the new changes, you can’t expect them to drop all their regression perks and play more aggressively overnight.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409317#Comment_3409317
Use brain.
Remember Survivor hooked.
Win more.
Good for you if you can consistently remember that especially after factoring in DCs, Surv suiciding to 2nd stage, or Surv who have been hooked once or twice already but not on a Scourge hook previously.
Sticking small post its on my monitor next to the Survivor’s icon fixes that issue but it’s kinda sad to be relying on that, just like using a Sandglass to wait out old Decisive Strike.
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@UnluckyDucky said:
2nd post for the night, another 5hr gameplay stint and I notice killers being particularly in favor of the tunnel aspect.
Now I'm not here to pick sides, I play 30/70 for the most part in this game. I know gen rushing is insane RN, and putting pressure on survivors is really impossible unless you can take one out early--but its getting a littttttttle ridiculous now.
I've had a few games where I'm literally SANDWICHED between a teammate and the killer, and the killer refusing to hit me for a protection hit and goes WAYYY out of their way to keep chasing the other survivor that was either just unhooked, or already injured from one thing or another.
Again, as a partial killer player, it makes SENSE to go for the injured survivor. But even after they hit them and proc the passive BT, they continue to chase the unhooked survivor, relentlessly. Like there's NOTHING you can do to get them off--
"Oh just do GENS if they're tunneling/camping"
Yeah, I get that--but didn't they nerf gens so they take WAY longer to do? And with current anti-gen perks, and survivors being tunneled, dont gens just BLOW if a survivor gets downed near them?
Even if the killer facecamps, I don't have enough time to get an entire gen done in the span it takes for 1 phase of a hook to complete. Even with a SWF and you all agree its a facecamp, there isn't enough time to get even 2 gens done before the survivor on hook dies--then the next one gets tunneled, and camped.
Now the odd tunnel/camp I can do--but its getting to the point where the game really just... isnt even playable. It's a lose-lose for like everyone. Killer, survivor, and the tunnel victim. You're either playing gen simulator until its YOUR turn to get camped, or you're just sitting on hook as long as possible to buy your friends time.
Out of the 12 games I've had so far tonight... we've had ONE person escape. ONE. "wElL GiT gUd" I'd love to--but with the MMR shouldn't we be matched pretty fairly to at least win 50/50? We went against a tunneling pinhead with 0 perks and we still couldn't make it out alive.
The current state of the game is getting to be really unenjoyable, but I want to see how i can still salvage all this. What can I do?
Game prioritizes Queue times over MMR, if there were no killers of your skill level online when you were playing, the game will either match lower or higher skill level Killers with you.
Since gen regression perks which was the “meta” previously has been demolished, Killers only has camping and tunneling to fall back on until they get used to a different perk set.
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It’s understandable. Healing is much more punishing now. Naturally Survivors would want to minimize their chases because healing takes up time and doing gens injured can be risky. Some maps can allow for Survivors to chain loops/ predrop pallets/hold W so these would be abused as well.
If you are running M1 chase oriented Killers, one perk combination you could consider is Save the Best for Last, Dying Light, Scourge hook: Gift of Pain, Wildcard. You build STBFL stacks from chasing non Obsession Survivors and decrease gen repair speeds when you hook them via Dying Light. Gift of Pain forces the Survivors to either do gens injured or get healed and take the 16% decrease to repair speed.