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Maybe if it removed the stun from blast mine.
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They clearly think cowshed is perfectly fine if they bothered to implement the tile spawn changes for other realms but chose to ignore cowshed entirely if what Otz is sayint is true
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Aren’t the kill rates that people keep quoting from September 2022? That’s 5 months old data while the HUD changes were introduced this year.
It would be nice to see some updated statistics. Until that happens, I highly doubt the HUD update will not make a dent in the recent kill rates. The figure should go down even more after the Eruption nerf is pushed live.
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Pretty amusing that one year ago, it would take 10 minutes average to get into a game as survivor. Devs changed matchmaking logic, buffed Killers and introduced incentives in the hopes of improving queue times.
Now we have people asking for longer queue times and are willing to queue longer themselves. The grass is always greener on the other side.
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Killer can’t really tell if they’re going against a swf unless the swf makes it obvious (Steam profiles/ ttv/matching names etc)
Killers also can’t tell if they’re going against a super cracked squad or a chill team but past experience has conditioned some players to assume the worse and play at their best.
You and your team may be chill, but the Killer doesn’t know that
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Camping for me is nothing personal, strictly business.
If I hook someone in a 3-4 gen with view of them, then there is no reason to leave the hook.
When I get camped as survivor, I accept that the Killer is being smart if my teams isnt doing gens and move on to the next game.
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I dodge if I’m doing dailies on a Killer I’m not experienced with like Artist or Bubba
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I see the decline in Killer playerbase as a good thing. Survivors will notice that queue times for games take longer, leading to less motivation to play the game and BHVR will hopefully buff Killers to make the experience better.
It’s like 2022 never happened.
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Call of Brine is fine, the perk was released more than a year ago and there were no complaints about it until it got paired with Eruption
Nowhere to Hide could be 4 seconds instead of 5
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You might as well call for a revert of all the Killer buffs made from the Killer patch at this rate
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You could get a position in senior management at BHVR and petition for the removal of the Plague
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Surprisingly, this buffs the Sadako Condemned Slug strategy since she will know where to go next and can teleport with her tva
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Can’t get camped/tunneled if you don’t get hooked in the first place.
Play as if each chase is your last regardless of hookstates and you might get better results.
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Game is swf sided, not solo queue sided
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I’ll laugh if the survivor queue times go back to how they were pre meta shakeup especially if the upcoming perk updates are going to nerf other regression perks too.
This change will definitely affect Kill rates negatively.
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Even if devs aren’t Survivor or Killer sided, they really need to think about how people would react when reading their dev update.
Putting a huge Killer perk nerf and a random Survivor perk buff out of nowhere together is going to give a skewed perspective even if they do have plans for other perks down the road.
If the goal was to start a fire, they definitely know their stuff.
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I never said SWF should be nerfed but sure, it’s fine if they don’t want to nerf SWF, they can either choose to buff Killer to SWF level or let Killer players see the which players are SWF in the lobby.
Allowing Killers to see who are SWF in lobby and monitoring the lobby dodge rates for a period of time would give BHVR actual statistics on whether your average Killer player wants to play against SWF instead of reading forum threads complaining about them. If the majority of the Killer Base dislikes going against swf although the escape rate of swf is quite close to solo queue, then BHVR could next look at changing this biased view of SWF. Acknowledging the problem is not much, but it is the first step to solving it.
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If the majority of the Killerbase opts out of playing against swf, then BHVR needs to look at why so many players dislike going against swf instead of waiting for so long to acknowledge that swf has an easier time and buff solo queue as a bandaid option.
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Toxicity is just an excuse, it’s more likely that no visual MMR was implemented to hide how flawed matchmaking is.
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Ironically, the bug whereby dropping dream pallets recharged Spirit Fury was an interesting idea. That way Survivors would be much more wary of dropping pallets and it would buff pallet Freddy’s chase potential.
For the sake of balance, dropping a dream pallet could just recharge half a charge on Spirit Fury so 4 dream pallets dropped or 2 normal pallets being broken would be required for one use of Spirit Fury
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Efficiency. A survivor on 1st or 2nd stage can still do generators/saves. Alternatively, if I can down a 2nd survivor before the first is unhooked, I will focus exclusively on hook states for these two survivors. That way if one survivor on death hook decides to run to safe structures in hopes of wasting time while their team finished the gens, I still have the option of going after a second survivor with hook states and possible take them out of the game if needed.
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Putting aside MMR being borked for the moment, if a large bunch of Killers decided to play “chill”, wouldn’t this “chill” method of playing result in a sizable chunk of the Killer playerbase being stuck in a certain MMR bracket over time? Sounds like this could potentially lead to longer queue times for much more skilled survivors or swf on winning streaks.
Of course it’s not likely that this scenario will occur but it would basically be a smaller version of the long surv queue time issue prior to the meta shake up last year
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There is no incentive for “playing nice” and merely sets the Killer back in terms of achieving their objective.
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The lack of communication on any plans for Killer updates is one of the reasons for the knee jerk reactions.
Everyone is just parroting “Devs will be able to buff Killers better against swf and solo queue”. The official dev replies seem to fall into a “wait and see “ approach with no mention of even possibly looking at the weaker Killers whom still need help regardless of the Survivor HUD update.
The hinted at “Eruption” change also doesn’t seem promising given BHVR’s history of nerfing perks into the grave like Pop and Corrupted Intervention.
Overall, things don’t look too promising for Killers in the future since we don’t know if Killer buffs are even happening and when.
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Got an extremely laggy survivor blinking around in my Killer fov, after I catch the 4th survivor with the rest either dead or hooked, the game suddenely disconnects everyone.
All these “random” disconnects always happen when I’m about to end with a 4k.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3332818#Comment_3332818
While not every game will require you to camp/tunnel/slug, that doesn’t mean you should mentally limit yourself from doing so. Play based on what you think makes sense, not how you feel if you want to win.
Counterpoint: If you resort to camping, tunnelling and slugging in order to win, you need to realise that you may be getting kills that feel undeserved, which means your MMR will position itself above what you can comfortably handle, leading to more stressful matches.
You can have fun matches, or you can have a high win-rate, but it's very hard to do both unless you're really, really, -really- good at the game.
If matches are frustrating you, I recommend aiming for 2-hooking everyone but avoiding going for kills, or only going for kills once you've 2-hooked everyone. This'll keep your MMR low while giving you plenty of opportunity to test your skill.
A kill is a kill, I don’t believe that every game is 12 hookable and winnable especially when going against players of similar skill level or higher. This game definitely isn’t balanced for hooks and there’s no reason for the Killers to nerf their gameplay around it.
Keeping track of hook states so you know who to not hook to get out of the game asap is counterproductive. Keeping track of the hook states of 4 people is going to be more confusing than 1/2 people especially if people use similar characters/outfits.
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Don’t go for 12 hooks.
One or two mistakes in decisions or gameplay can cost you the game especially if you are dealing with players on your skill level. It happens. Mind games don’t just consist of outplaying survivors at pallets/structures. You want to pressure multiple survivors and not just one survivor at a time.
MMR is a mixed bag. There will always be mistakes or things you can improve on in your Killer games, however the skill level of the players, everyone’s perks and maps will affect the amount of mistakes you can afford to make.
While not every game will require you to camp/tunnel/slug, that doesn’t mean you should mentally limit yourself from doing so. Play based on what you think makes sense, not how you feel if you want to win.
Nemesis has good chase potential and his zombies can be good scouts/boxing the survivors in, but they are inconsistent. There will be games whereby they offer immense value, and other games where they just spawn in a corner of the map without gens.
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DH just has to be changed to prevent lose lose situations at pallets for the Killer.
I would go one step further to say that using it “offensively” to get hook saves or bodyblock might need some balancing too.
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On SEA server during some of the weekday nights, Killer BP 100% was up around 10pm. Prior to the event and new patch, Killer 100% would usually only happen at midnight.
It may not be a mass exodus of Killers, but it’s a sign
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I had two DCs against my doctor on Temple of Purgation at 5 gens because they camped pallets and got punished for it.
I guess Doctor is too strong for the average player to handle.
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Jolt
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Balance can’t be achieved as long as swf can’t be nerfed and any buffs given to solo queue benefit swf as well (directly or indirectly)
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331585#Comment_3331585
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331738#Comment_3331738
I do not see how adding an indicator pre-game results in any SWF ever getting a match at all. No amount of bribery will make killers take them on when they have the option to get guaranteed just solos every time. And with half of all survs in at least a two-man team, queue times for everyone in both roles are now screwed.
If the majority of the Killer population end up dodging 3/4 man swf lobbies even with incentives, then at the very least, it’s a wakeup call to the devs on how much swf is disliked and they need to rethink their priorities in balancing the game.
If swf not being nerfed is the rule to play around, then the alternative is to let the Killer playerbase decide if they wish to go against swf with incentives for doing so.
The current idea that has been floating around after the Survivor HUD update is that with Solo queue being closer to Swf, Killers can be buffed accordingly. While it sounds great on paper, it’s going to be very hard to pull off. Swf, Solo queue and Killer groups all make up one triangle. Since solo queue buffs will always apply for swf, balancing solo queue and killer will always mean that swf will be one step above the other two.
Balancing all parties means that every group has to be subjected to buffs and nerfs. However if one group (swf) cannot be nerfed and gets indirect buffs when another (solo queue) is buffed, it’s pretty obvious that the game will never be balanced for all groups. I wouldn’t be surprised if after 1 year, solo queue players would still be complaining about killers being overpowered and said killers would be complaining about swf being overpowered.
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Boons in general should just get a shorter AOE
On certain maps with strong main buildings such as Dead Dwag, COH + Exponential + Shadow Step turns the main building into an even greater headache to deal with. I’ve had survivors pick themselves up with exponential at the pallet near the main entrance of the main building, that’s how huge the AOE is.
Multiple survivors bringing boons also means there it’s not uncommon to see multiple booned spots in a game. The time investment spent looking for and snuffing out one boon doesn’t mean much if injured survivors can just run to the second boon spot on the map to heal.
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Even if swf doesn’t have that high an escape rate compared to solo queue, it sure doesn’t feel good to play against one, especially when playing a Stealth Killer/Build.
Killers should be given a swf indicator pre game and BP bonuses for going up against swf
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One of the biggest complaints of DH is the lose-lose situation at pallets where the Killer either swings and activates DH or wait and eat the pallet stun. This could perhaps be rectified by adding a 0.5 second delay before survivors can drop pallets if they use DH within a specified distance from an undropped pallet. That way Killers will still have to wait out the DH, but have a small time window to down survivors at pallet chokepoints after DH is used.
Survivors would also have to decide if they should drop the pallet first or use DH and hope the Killer takes the bait. The idea of current DH being High Risk High Reward definitely doesnt apply at undropped pallets if Survivors still has the option to drop the pallet if they fail their DH.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328905#Comment_3328905
Swfs will never find a game. All because solo queue = easy kills. Dog forbid you have a challenge and lose once in awhile.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328590#Comment_3328590
Your balancing solution is to buff weaker killers to be able to compete more effectively against swf? How is that balanced for solo queue? Solo queue makes up the vast majority of the kill rates (hence why killer mains like yourself are upset they got a buff, you know solo is easy pickings) so they already get dominated plenty by weaker killers. Making weaker killers stronger will only make the game more difficult for solo players. How is that balance? The actual solution is exactly what BHVR are doing - buff solo to bridge the gap between solo and swf, and *then* make killer changes. That way solo still have a fighting chance once killers are buffed.
If swf never finding a game does happen, then it proves that the majority of the Killer base don’t like to go against swf. Has anyone ever stopped to question why a lot of Killer players would not want to go up against a swf? Or do they not matter since the Killer role is the minority? If the majority of the Killer base still believe that swf is much harder to handle as compared to solo queue , then solo queue players will need more buffs to reach the level of swf and the devs will have less issues in balancing Killers accordingly.
Devs can also add BP incentives for playing against swf starting from 2-4 man. They could even implement the ability to see swf for a trial period like how they tested different matchmaking criteria in live servers last year.
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This is a good thing especially if Killer incentive continues even after the event. It sends a message to everyone and BHVR that the Killer population will decrease accordingly if the playerbase finds the “power” role to be much more stressful to play.
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Swf don’t have to be penalized in game, but Killers could be informed in the lobby if they were matched against one.
Give Killers bp incentive if they play against swf.
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Give Killers the choice to decide if they want to play against a swf or not. Since swf is one of the reasons cited for the Killer losing, having an indicator in the lobby for swf players will give them a heads up that the match may be much more harder.
If a Killer still decides to load up against a 3/4 man and gets destroyed, at least they knew what to expect going into the match.
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@Zaydin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3327951#Comment_3327951
Given the huge advantage that a full SWF can have over killers given they are communicating constantly over voice comms, Killers need some sort of incentive to put up with that kind of pain when there aren't events that rain down BPs like the current one. Especially since in my experience most full four man SWFs are more interested in torturing the Killer than playing the game.
I wouldn’t say it breaks game balance on a huge scale but it does skew the odds towards swf quite a bit especially when offerings and loaded items are thrown into the mix
I think implementing a swf tag is a good idea, just curious on the rationale for not implementing it. Sure BHVR may have planned for swf to be implemented in DBD from the start, but the fact remains that some Killer players dislike going up against swf and not much has been done to improve their game experience.
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100k extra BP not including points accumulated during the match is enticing even if it ends up being a 4 man escape
Expect opposition from swf players though
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@Edilibs said:
You guys may like it and think it's "balancing" the game meanwhile I'm in reality and the reality is that its help solos don't need, it's like a crutch!
I absolutely do not agree with what is said in this thread for the most part. I stand by what I say the hud icon thing is dumb and takes away the surprise core element of the game! You know even though it's asymmetrical "horror"! You people aren't even trying to make sense of why survivors can suddenly get extra info in the first place. Want to know if a survivor is on a gen or if they're healing, make full screen aura reading perks I dunno
You guys can't tell me how I should be enjoying a game "I" pay for by spending $$. There should be an option for it to be turned on or off at least!
Actually CoconutRTS made a video talking about the perspectives of players from the Japanese community. Some of them also think it’s too much “handholding” and might dissuade players from wanting to play Killer in the long run.
You do have a valid opinion, just that you might be sharing it in the wrong community.
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I can only speak for the casual, once in a blue moon Bubba player.
The answer is Bubba daily.
It’s much consistent to camp and get easier chainsaw hits on altruistic survivors then to spend time chasing survivors across the map and potentially end up having to play a second game of Bubba to complete the daily.
By running + camping with Lethal, Corrupt and Deadlock, there is also the potential of turning the game into a 1v3 early on especially if the first survivor went down early. So I get to finish my daily + have a chance of winning the game.
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Many players struggled with new DH for a few weeks after it was implemented live. Give players time to adapt to these new changes. Not everyone plays the PTB and not everyone reads the patch notes.
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@Blinckx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326800#Comment_3326800
I'm not trying to be the Devil's advocate here at all, really i almost never ever played as survivor so i'm not on their "side" ( even i do not think there's a side but i won't go deep in this topic ) may let me ask you something. In all your example you basically said the same thing "they adapt to you" ..they comms about spirit fury, they comms about stealth and so on. Now question is, why you do not adapt as well ? You let your build and perks carry you and those perks/build fail then you fail but it should be the opposite, perks should enanche your gameplay and strategy but you should perfom well even without them or at least come up with a different plan, you have to change on the fly your tactic is something goes wrong. They send the obsession to bodyblock ? Tunnel the ######### out of her, i may lose STBFL but you lose one player. You'll predrop ? Fine i'll recharge SF faster and you'll create dead zone for you and i'll hunt you there. Then yeah, you'll probably going to lose many match but that' the fun i guess, have a whorty challenge, if you lose well good for them, learn from your own mistakes, but if you win oh god that's awesome don't you think ?
Yes, changing strategies on the fly and adapting accordingly are traits of a good Killer. However it doesn’t change the fact that the odds are still stacked against the Killer. Being able to play a Killer without perks is fine and dandy but it is always much more difficult to recover and make a comeback if the opposing team knows your initial strategy and plays towards countering you.
If I suspected a sabo swf, bringing Mad Grit/Iron Grasp/Agitation along with a hook offering would force said swf to change up their strategy and start doing gens, but they would have a late start and a perk disadvantage because they brought sabo/bodyblock/wriggle related perks.
You might prefer to play against overwhelming odds and that’s totally fine. I personally prefer playing knowing if I’m going up against a swf or not so I can switch up my builds accordingly.
@LuciaVatton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326800#Comment_3326800
Voice is a thing that beyond the mechanics of the game and it's not a way you should deal it with in-game mechanics.
You can say that I'm very good at giving pressure and smash them like any other teams. Yeah you can, but it's not the problem of winning or losing but the problem of Fair-game.
The Core is: players of DBD in voice comms can get advantages which are not included in this game. This is same as using third-party programs or anything else. It happenes in many games like in LOL, but both 5 players can use voice chat to communicate and share info, imbalance vs imbalance is a balance.
As we know DBD is a 4V1 game, a killer player can never communicate with anyone, therefore this imbalance has concentrated in one side. The problem of voice comms starts from the very beginning of this game and the dev still havent find a good solution to fix this gap between singles and teams.
Adding a [team tag] is the easiest way to reduce this imbalance without chaning anything in this game. For a killer player, if you are confident with your skills then you can stay, if you need rank up then you can wait, the other way for single survivor player at ranking. Although it would make the queue longer in some way, the game could be fairer under this circumstance.
It is definitely swf-sided. However swf getting potential longer queue times would lead to cries of being “punished for playing with friends”. I still think a swf tag should be implemented so that the Killer knows what they are going up against but I can also see why most players would dislike it.
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The lack of updates from the devs on how Killers might be buffed apart from a “We’ll wait and see” is the real letdown as it gives off the feeling that they themselves don’t believe that the Survivor HUD will affect kill rates that much. With no clear timeline, it may take up to a year before any meaningful Killer buffs are being made.
Even if waiting for stats was an issue, announcing that they would start looking at weaker Killers like Trapper or Pig after this patch would make Killer players much more accepting of the Survivor HUD.
Currently the trend of updates seem to be Perk Overhaul + Killer buffs> Basekit Unbreakable being tested on PTB> Clicky flashlights changed> Locker flashlight save nerf+ Easier to get flashlight saves> Survivor HUD + Nurse nerf
At a glance, there’s not much going for Killers since the buff patch. Given that BHVR is a company and survivors definitely make up a larger portion of the playerbase, can you blame Killer mains for having suspicions that BHVR are still catering to Survivors since it’s the better option from a business perspective?
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Considering that the new event just started, there might just be an influx of players farming the rewards.
if however the Killer bonus remains on constantly after the event and survivor queues go back to 10-15 minutes, then things would pretty much be the same as pre Killer buffs patch. Kind of amusing if several players just decided to stop playing Killer in response to the HUD buff
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@Blinckx said:
Probably i'm the only killer main who have no problem to play vs SWF or have issue with the new HUD. I mean yeah they are able to talk or see what is going on so...? Sure it is a strenght but being able to communicate or have a clear view of what is going on is not an "auto win", to me is an option to get better, face a real challenge, learn how to play and win against the odds and i do agree with BHVR, if soloQ and SWF are on the same level then you can implement real changes and balance the game more, otherwise you'll hurt only soloQ players
It’s more about changing your perk build accordingly if you know that you’re dealing with a team on voice comms.
Using enduring + spirit fury? Once this has been communicated to the rest, the remaining survivors will just predrop pallets in chase.
Using STBL? The Obsession will be sent to bodyblock/hook rescue in chases
Running Totems + Pentimento? A swf would be able to pin down the location of the Pentimento totem easily
Using a stealth Killer? Comms straight up counters this, and this is without even taking the updated survivor HUD into account.
If you enjoy going against up teams with all these disadvantages, props to you. But all these disadvantages all do add up and can sometimes be the deciding factor in an outcome of a match.
I’m interested in how BHVR would “balance” Killers around this considering that they are adopting a “wait and see” approach for now.
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I like your idea, but swf would complain that Killers would lobby dodge leading to longer queue times and complaints of being “punished for playing with friends”.