albertoplus
albertoplus
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069051#Comment_4069051
And when all survivors become bots the killer can abandon too.
That said, doesn't answer the question does it? In that scenario, what stops the killer?
Nothing stops the killer, but seeing that in the survivors case i did mention also nothing stops them but they can still forfeit, whats the point in asking?
Being able to "meaningfully" play or not doesn't seem to be a factor in being able to forfeit.
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@Rulebreaker said:
What stops the killer from being able to "meaningfully" play in that scenario?
With all honesty, survivors can also forfeit when the rest of the survivors are bots. On that case they could also normally play.
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The change i never understood was when they fixed Wesker grabbing people from the other side of the window/pallet when the survivor was vaulting it and they made it so now if the survivor starts the vaulting animation most of the time you will "bump" into them even when with any other killer power you would just hit them.
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They totally should have kept the anti bodyblock feature.
If the problem is that they could go inside the other survivor then make it so they only lose colision with the killer but not with the survivor.
Problem solved.
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4066662#Comment_4066662
its a crutch in the sense that it strictly replaces the need to develop a game skill
if you learn to loop exclusively with windows then youre basically hopeless without it
I understand that but people keep telling that "only helps noob players, if you have game knowledge it doesnt help you" and that it a blatant lie.
I mean sure, as you say if you always use it since the you start playing for the first times you will not learn the pallet spawn logic as you will probably not try to remember the tiles where they spawn. The same logic applied to perks like Noed not helping you how to play on endgame or some more perks.
However what people do not want to accept is that even pro players dont know at 100% where pallets did spawn. The spawn logic can make the pallet appear on a tile and sometimes it does not appear. And it is a team game so unless you are in a perfectly coordinated swf or you see the the survivor using that pallet, there is no possibility to know if a pallet has been used or not at 100% and this is where WoO comes in. And knowing that can for sure make you win a chase that you were about to lose.
It helps newer players and thats true, but people who say that it has no use outside of that are just lying to themselves.
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People will tell you that it is a "noob" or "clutch" perk that only helps people that are newer to the game.
And yet i see pro players (Otz, Hens, etc) getting chased into an already used pallet and saying "oh damn they did throw this pallet!!". Ofc that doesn't even happen with WoO.
The perk is powerful as hell.
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I want to assume that people saying that if the survivors were alive after 5 gens pop then that means the killer did badly and they dont deserve the "pity kill" are also the same people who would agree to remove hatch entirely and the gates powering up after it is closed (they should only power up with all gens completed).
The hatch and the doors powering up with gens still uncompleted gives survivors the oportunity of a pity escape. If all the survivors but one were dead before the 5 gens got completed that means the survivors did badly and they dont deserve their pity escape at all.
If you want to escape, keep playing and try as hard as you can to complete the last gens, open the gate and escape.
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@OneShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064049#Comment_4064049
If you want to argue against someone, please address what they actually said.
Literally did.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Because if he didn't he'd pretty much be able to appear right next to you with little warning. It's not just about overall mobility (since unlike Blight/Billy using his power to cross the map doesn't save nearly as much time compared to just walking) but it's also about his mobility in short bursts.
His TR is fine the way it is imo though I do wish his power recharge was a tad bit shorter (or at least with no one infected, maybe not with the infection recharge bonus)
His mobility in short bursts is the reason why he would not be able to appear right next to you with little warning even at a 32m TR.
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@Rick1998 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064018#Comment_4064018
funny , otz played a match on rpd where he took the entire match to catch up someone usong wesker . His power gives him no mobility whatsoever .
Well i dont really get if thats sarcasm or not but if using a power gives you literally 1 second of "catching time" vs using no power at all, then the extra mobility it gives is… kinda low?
I have been playing Wesker since release and i always though that his mobility was highly overrated. As i said before, he is more mobile than, lets say a trapper, but he is definetly not as mobile as the actual fastest killers. His mobility is a tiny bit above average.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064020#Comment_4064020
That bug was reported like week ago in the betahub reports seems like by you. So if it was reported in the old forum bug reports I have to admit I am not holding my breath of them fixing those anymore so should really report them to the betahub site so they come into the attention to the devs again. So at least on there its not year old report as its your report you reported last week. Still its interesting that nobody else noticed this bug to make a report and I have played Dracula quite often and not noticed this stutter.
Yeah, the betahub report was totally by me. However, the original bug was reported in the forums about 1yr ago by someone. Then months after that i reported it again in the forums because i did hear that Singularity had the same bug on same patch than Dracula but he got it fixed already. And then as you said like a week ago i did report in the new betahub.
Its honestly frustating because my forums report was flagged by "Under review" but you know… there are hundreds of bugs that they end lost with that flag and never heard again, so you dont know if they saw it and just didnt care, or they think it is not actually a bug, or it is not high priority, or it is a difficult bug to fix…
I also strongly think that if you do not notice that stutter is just because you have probably been "used to it" already. Before the 8.7.0 patch, every dracula action was done instantly. However after that patch there are tons of times that if you shapeshift or use the bat teleportation, there is a high chance that it gets "delayed" by a tiny bit, like 0.5 seconds. In fact it is very noticeable while transforming into bat form while walking because you will see Dracula running at the bat speed for those 0.5 seconds and then transforming.
It also doesnt seem to be a "me" thing because the original bug was not even reported by me, and when i did report it on the forums i got a comment of someone saying that it was also happening to him and was still not fixed.
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@OneShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064018#Comment_4064018
Good thing my exp anation wasn't that he had high map mobility but rather that he can get hits with Survivors barely able to react to his terror radius.
But thats….not true?
Lets imagine for a moment that he has the standard 32m TR.
If (only if) he would use his power at the very tip of his TR (about 33m from the survivor) the survivor would still have about 14-15m to react and now he would be slowed AND his power on big cooldown, having to walk those 14-15m to the survivor so, not going to catch anyone by surprise.
For him to "catch" a survivor by surprise he would need to be inside his own TR and about 18m from a survivor and then start using his power, and honestly, he survivor should have been hearing his TR by a while then when he was walking so he know he was there already. If he still catches the survivor it is not by surprise, the survivor did had all the time in the world to know he was there.
He is not Billy/Blight. He cannot dash around the map basically entirely. He cannot enter on his own TR with his power and be able to keep dashing until he reaches the survivor.
I still think 40m TR doesnt make any sense for Wesker. He is not catching anyone by surprise or making unreactable plays with a 32m TR.
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Dracula has a bug reported since 1 year i think that makes him literally stutter basically most of the time he transforms or uses bat teleport, which makes the action take like 0.5 seconds more than it should.
It sounds like its nothing but its annoying as hell.
The best part is… there is literally no need to explain how to even reproduce it. Just start the game and transform. You will probably stutter already. It does happen most of the time so there is no need to do some obscure sh*t to reproduce it or being in like 1 of every 10 matches. It happens on every game, a hundred of times, basically almost every time you transform.
And the bug is still there. They do not even care at all. The best thing is that Singularity had the same bug reported at the same time as Dracula's and it seems it got fixed fast. But for Dracula? Nah f**k it.
Im amazed of how a bug that affects you every time and you can reproduce it in, literally, the first second the match starts is still there.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnb1lLDlIsQ@OneShape said:
Because he can cross 21 meters in 1.5 seconds (22.4 meters in 1.6 seconds with an add on). If he was 32 you could pull what people used to with old Deathslinger and slap on Monitor and Abuse to hit people who just barely hear your terror radius.
Video of Otz talking about Wesker mobility with and without power. Using Wesker power from point A to point B did save him 1 second time.
In paper you can say "hey he can cross 21 metters in 1.5 seconds!" but you are not talking into account his charge time which makes him slower, his cooldown after both bounds have been used which makes him slower again and the fact that if you use your power for mobility you have big cooldown before being able to use again while killers like Billy can just… start his power right there again.
And that did save you 1 second time.
I think this debunks that Wesker has "high mobility". I mean is he more mobile than characters like Nemesis or Pyramid Head? For sure. Does this put him on a "very mobile" killer? Nah, his mobility is just a bit above average.
So yeah, doesn't make much sense his 40m terror radius.
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Maybe a really hot take here, but i believe at this rate that the game would be more "balanceable" by removing all exhaustion and all gen regression perks.
Right now they are basically mandatory if you want to compete against a decent killer in case of survivors or a decent survivors in case of the killer.
And right now if you have a balanced gen time, it will get unbalanced with gen regression perks. And if you balance gen time while having gen regression perks into account, then they become mandatory. The same happens with chase time and exhaustion perks.
By not having both of those perks maybe it will be a nightmare but i think the game would become at the end far, far easier to balance.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I mean, they announced anti tunneling and anti slugging, then pulled those changes due to "feedback".
The update they pushed live kept the changes to OTR and tenacity despite the offset adjustments to camping and tunneling being postponed indefinitely.
So the live version of "anti tunnel" and "anti slug" became "surprise, we buffed tunneling and slugging instead".
On top of that, these are issues people have been begging for changes for 9 years. So, finally BHVR acknowledges"we hear you" only to immediately, immediately turn that completely around because the loudest voices screamed at them and drowned out actual concerns... Yet again.
The game didn't even continue with status quo with this live update, these problems got actively worse instead.
And their responses make that feel intentional instead of an oversight. They haven't said they're "reverting these two perks", they said they'll "make further adjustments", and that's not the same thing.
BHVR screwed over the players this patch was supposed to help out, and we can't even get them to say it wasn't on purpose.
I totally understand the concerns with OTR, Tenacity and the new Killer (i havent played her or against her but seems to be absurdly broken as far as i heard), but then again i don't get the uproar about the changes reverted.
This forum was flooded with people asking them to not go live with these changes. Reddit was flooded with people asking them to not go live with these changes. So they don't and…. everyone is mad again?
I would get it if the complains were "only" about OTR, Tenacity and the new killer, but i don't get why they also involve the changes getting reverted which is exactly what the community screamed them to do.
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Keep in mind that for every licensed killer they probably need to talk to the license holders about their inclusion in the new game mode where they can interact with other killers. It sounds very simple but this probably takes a lot of time and effort, and the license holders may also not like the idea of, for example, Wesker meeting Pyramid Head (yeah i know it sounds silly, but it can happen).
About the queue time, honestly… is there anything they can really do? By the nature of the 2v8 game mode, people will keep playing mostly killer probably. Playing with other 4 survivors is a cool feature but the real deal is to be able to play with another killer, or even invite a friend to play killer together. I think that will never change and the devs can "help" with these problems by adding the BP bonus or the new "play while you wait" mode, but they cannot do anything to make both sides have a balanced player count.
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If i am not mistaken the bubble was even "shadow nerfed". I cannot remember being mentioned in the patch notes but some patches ago, the bubbles did last something like 3-5 seconds but now are like 8 seconds or so, and it doesn't make sense.
I don't know if it is a bug or it was intentional, but i would like if it was reverted. Hell, even a lower duration so newer people can notice would be fine, but you already see both exit gates anyways and the bubble ends giving more harm than good.
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What i don't like at all its how neccesary is to have at least 1 or even 2 gen regression perks if the survivors are at least "competent". Not very good, just competent.
One thing i am noticing in my games is that i can have every chase really short, winning every mindgame and hooking people non-stop. Then i have "one" chase that i get a mistake of making it a bit longer than usual, probably longer than it should be.
At this moment gens starts to pop extremely fast, and now i have to sweat really hard or tunel/camp if i want to get at least some kills. And everything because i did "one" mistake and one chase was longer while every other chase was extremely short. And this is having into account that i have one or two gen regression perks. If not? Then the game was over for me and it will probably end in a 0k or 1k if i tunnel and camp someone really hard.
I would love to NOT have to bring gen regression perks. I mean, yeah, i dont need to bring them, and if i win every chase hard in 10-15 seconds i can still kill some people, but that means that those people were far worse than me and the matchmaking didnt do his job anyways. You ARE supposed to lose some chases if the survivors are at your level, but losing some chases means the gens fly.
BHVR is fixated on anti-tunnel, anti-camp and anti-slug, but i would love if they do something about those times where the gens fly hard because you do some mistakes or lose some chases (which agains equally skilled survivors, you should do).
Hell i would not care if they just nerf or rework every gen regression perk as long as gens are more bearable in the basekit game against equally skilled survivors.
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@indieeden7 said:
Side note to the thread's actual topic, but I really don't get why you now have to wait like 5 full seconds to actually see what number you roll, upon release you only had to wait about a second. Furthermore they seemingly removed (or at least made it so you can't activate) 3 of the potential 4 music variations that, again, the perk released with. All very trivial complaints, I know, but it removed a lot of charm from the perk.
I think it was just a typical BHVR moment. Initially yeah, you saw the roll number instantly, then the perk was bugged and had no effect, then they fixed the effect and the perk worked but they bugged the roll speed and it was made slower by accident.
Then they decided to not touch the perk anymore becasuse probably "well it is working now".
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983845#Comment_3983845
This is why I don't like the idea of limited charges.
I don't think I've ever seen a survivor use a fog vial more than 5 times in the same game, so asking for 5 charges isn't really a meaningful nerf, because most survivors wouldn't run out of charges.
I don't think survivors are ever going to like the concept of limited charges, because the number would have to be something really low like 2, in order for it to be a meaningful nerf, and 2 feels bad.
I find it interesting that people even say "give it 3-5 charges instead of infinite" and call it a nerf, while on reality i think 3 times is the most number of uses a survivor has used the fog vial on my games.
First, fix the opacity between maps and make it consistent. Its funny how people keep saying that the fog vials were "trash" or "overpowered" before while in reality it was both.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
You know, for a "training wheels perk" it still gives the pros immense value… Because even all maps and tiles are randomized, and it also tells you if a pallet you knew about has been thrown by another survivor already.
But fact is, it is THE most used perk according to nightlight, which definitely says something. Many builds utilizing windows are strong meta builds, and they have very decent escape rates.
I think if bhvr simply looked at numbers.. the usage rates and escape rates, like they do with pretty much everything else, this perk is going to be on the chopping block sooner or later.
THIS
I always find it interesting that people only mention the "it's good for newbies when you don't know the pallet locations" when they do not want the perk to be nerfed but everyone seems to never mention that it also helps you by knowing when a pallet has been thrown or destroyed in a tile.
A lot of killer hits are done by the survivor running into a tile with a pallet that it has been destroyed already without the survivor itself knowing it. This can happen with both noob and pro players, the only way to know that there is no pallet here would usually be if you see it being used or see the looping in that place and think that "maybe" will be used, but with WoO you just know if that tile has a pallet already used or not.
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They should not make any changes with the opacity until the bug where the opacity changes depending on the map is fixed.
If they "revert" the opacity changes, we are again on the same point where on some maps the Vials are useless and on some maps the survivor magically vanishes at the moment it is thrown.
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I have searched and it was reported in May it seems.
@gaber said:
SUMMARY OF THE ISSUE: In this new patch (8.7.0), the killers that I discovered so far, which are Dracula and Singularity, had their power extremely delayed, making the gameplay very clunky for both of them.
PLATFORM: Steam
STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW THE ISSUE OCCURED: Singularity: almost all cameras positioned for the first time will have an ABSURD delay to arrive at the location;
Dracula: when he is going to transform into bat form or leave it, he will have a possibility of having a certain delay (and it is not a consistent delay, it can be very long, imperceptible or normal)VIDEOS: DRACULA: https://streamable.com/rat5u3 (In the video, it is almost imperceptible, but when the person is actually playing, they will feel that this is not normal);
SINGULARITY:
(here it's really noticeable and directly affects his power).PLAYER LOGS:
- When I play Dracula in public matches, it feels like I'm
With singularity, I've only played against Bots in private matches and it gives me the same feeling
I dont know if it was fixed for Singu or not (i heard it was) but for Dracula its still happening and never gor fixed.
- When I play Dracula in public matches, it feels like I'm
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I think that bug was reported by March affecting both Singularity and Dracula. It was said that it was fixed with Singu but still happens with Dracula: transforming into Bat form and Teleporting in Bat form is usually delayed by half a second, and it happens most of the time.
I didnt test Singu tho, it was said that it was fixed… maybe it got bugged again?
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I think is not really hard to understand…
There is a delay between the pallet drop and when the stun begins, the survivor still has an animation of the pallet starting to drop, even if its really fast.
What happens when the killer hits the survivor in that animation? Well, the animation did start so it is not going to be cancelled, but the killer DID hit the survivor just before the stun begins, so… yeah. The animation finishes but the killer did also hit you.
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Why there are people saying that the Fog vials were "strong" while other people say that they were "useless" even before the nerfs, when in reality it was actually both?
The Fog Vials opacity were dependant of map's lighting. Saw a video comparison and on some maps the survivor were visible even when he was far from you in the fog, and on other maps the survivor would magically dissapear after the fog vial was used even if he was just 1 or 2 meters ahead from you.
I had some games, dunno if it was because of the map or the iri addon (or a combination of both) were the fog vial was a big "nah bruh i win chase now" button, because once he used it the survivor would just vanish from the existence, even if he used the vial in front of me. And honestly it wasnt fun.
I understand the frustation when the opposite does happen but saying "they were useless" is not remotely true, and neither is saying the opposite.
A middle ground needs to be found.
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What i dont understand is the shadow nerf on his survivor vaulting grab animation.
When he was released he could hit (or grab) survivors that were on the vaulting animation like every other M2 killer can. Then time after that a bug did arise where he was able to grab survivors when they were already on the other side of the window and actually "teleport" them with your grab on your side again.
Then behavior fixed that bug but for some reason they also hard nerfed his grab when trying to grab a vaulting survivor. Now to grab a survivor you need to grab them at the moment the vaulting animation starts (while literally any other killer can also hit the survivor with their M2 while mid-vault, hell sometimes even when the animation is finishing and the survivor is at the other side of the window), so now most of the time you try to grab a survivor in the vaulting animation Wesker just "bumps" in the window, literally going through the survivor body but not hitting them.
At the meanwhile, survivors can STILL go through Wesker when he vaults a pallet and vault it back before Wesker can attack. Its just not as easy as before, but still doable.
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If i am not mistaken the fog vials were map-dependant due to the map lighting (i saw a video with the comparion but i cannot remember where).
On some maps you can clearly see the survivor even when he is far from you already and on some others at the moment the vial is used the survivor just dissapears. And this is on base fog vial without addons.
However i must say that, i don't know if it was because of the map or because the survivors were using the iri addon, but there were times where the fog vial was just a big "nah bruh i win chase now" button, as the survivor did just dissapear completely without leaving traces and it was just in front of me when he used it.
I think they should have its uses but you shoulnd't just automatically win the chase because you used it.
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I think it's interesting that everyone seems to be very vocal about that they want the "horror" themes back, but everytime the Lights Out gamemode comes back, which is a "pure horror" gamemode, people doesn't seem to like it?
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@R2k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971916#Comment_3971916
I bet most Ghouls can't play Nurse or Blight. If you remember Spirit nerf or any other used to be S tier killer, only those who truly want to main it, kept playing it. Abusers moved to next "abuse". If anything, I would say they will move on Wesker. 2nd brain-dead killer after Ghoul
Wesker situation is kinda….interesting.
When released he was deemed as a "perfect" killer. Good on the right hands but has counterplay, the only two complains were "he tunnels easily" and "there are Weskers everywhere".
After years of not being touched he was hard nerfed. His tunneling ability went out with the removal or infection on hook and for some reason they also nerfed his full infection hindered mechanic.
When they fixed the bug where Wesker could grab you when you already vaulted a window it was not only fixed but also made it extremely difficult now to hit when vaulting over windows, much harder than most killers, most of the time you just "bump" on the window and not hit the survivor even when he is still in the animation.
The only thing he got buffed was his CD reduced by 0.5 seconds if i am not mistaken.
So Wesker seems to be far worse than when people called him "the most balanced killer", but now for some reason he is even more hated?
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971651#Comment_3971651
The time you waste healing is 24 seconds at minamum, and you lose OTR immediately. Its really not that hard to just insta eat someones OTR (in the form of a bodyblock or off hook), and if they're running ds as well and taking down, just wait it out cus its probably about to deactivate from how long their heal and time to reach chase took anyway.
OTR deactivates at the moment you start healing yourself, not when you finish healing yourself.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
No. It functions just the same as DS. Teammates heal alot faster than self healing, which incentivises basekit anti tunnel. Self healing makes sense as a conspicuous action since if your wasting so much time self healing, you clearly aren't being tunneled.
That doesn't make much sense honestly. You said about wasting so much time self healing, but OTR deactivates at the moment you start healing yourself, so the time you have wasted self healing is 0.01 seconds.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971200#Comment_3971200
That's fine, I just don't like people arguing that survivors should be even easier to kill in a game where tunneling is a huge issue, when powering through these perks takes 0 effort rn as it is.
I think when we have baseline anti tunnel we can talk, because we still dont have faster unhook times to compensate for the faster m1 speeds for example. So much which has been ignored since 6.1.0Just out of curiosity, why you do not seem to agree with losing collision as long as OTR is active?
You mention the tunneling but if they just make unhooked survivor lose collision then that will absolutely not affect tunneling at all. The killer will be able to go after the unhooker, the unhooked survivor will not be able to weaponize OTR and if the killer wants to kill the unhooked survivor even with full heal then he will need to power over the two heal states + OTR.
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@GeneralV said:
I don't think so.
Someone could get a fast heal with We'll Make It or Botany before the killer returns, but that doesn't mean the survivor they unhooked isn't going to be tunneled.
There can be scenarios where that happens, and OTR shouldn't deactivate then.
Even if it's a fast heal, it is still your decision to finish it up or not, you can still cancel being healed by pressing the run button.
The same way as if you decide to start healing, the killer can still come after you before you finish, but it still deactivates at the moment you start with the healing action.
The only problem i see is with "instant" heals like syringe or any instant heal perk, but i suppose it can be coded differently for those cases.
However i think that one very safe thing they can do at the very least is to make the survivor collision as long as OTR/DS/Basekit BT is active to just dissapear. It will still protect you if the killer decides to tunnel but you will not be able to weaponize them.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971071#Comment_3971071
So let me clarify, I mean specifically the act of getting a survivor out of a game first and as soon as possible. Conspicuous actions are very different from killing a survivor who is trying to recover from being focused out AKA Tunneling.
If a survivor is doing nothing in the entirety of OTR's duration, they are more of a detriment to the other survivors and a boon to us killers.
I just find it an extreme case of a survivor somehow doing nothing in all the time they had it up is really unlikely. Usually I encounter it when I intercept a survivor BEING HEALED who is trying to recover.
I feel it's fine to have to work a little harder to get someone out, it's applying pressure and powering through the perk, it happens and is doable some killers have an easier time than others doing so too (deep wound killers).
I just don't see an issue with a perk doing what it's designed to do. If it's being weaponised, I find it's the most annoying when you're trying to tunnel survivors out to reduce pressure but all 4 of them have the perk (therefor a team who has built completly against such a tactic).
I really like rapid brutality and STBFL for endurance, since I can farm off it and keep the pressure going.Well, i totally respect your opinion but i think this is where we cannot agree. You feel it is fine to work a bit harder on those cases, like it's fine to get punished by an anti-tunnel perk if you are not tunneling, while i think it is not fine, no matter if there are options that can make you do it faster or not. It's an anti-tunnel perk and should not punish non-tunnelers.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970965#Comment_3970965
You're basically making excuses for not dealing with the situation at hand though? You had options but you're saying "I shouldn't need to", so you'd let them get in the way making themselves more vulnerable and easier to tunnel? If a survivor is doing that punish them for it, they still have to remove deep wounds then do something else.
My description is accurate you're just overcomplicating the term tunneling. lol You're getting them out as soon as possible comparitively to other survivors, whether or not that is intentional.
Tunneling = focusing, so by choosing to focus them you are tunneling. If the other survivor did all that time doing nothing to remove DS/OTR, then they weren't doing gens.
So you gave up your previous chase to focus someone who wasn't being productive, all because you couldn't play X tile properly, if others were doing gens then there WAS options.This.. kinda remebers me of the time when people were discussing about survivors weaponizing DS by going into gens before the Conspicuous Actions were a thing, and some people were defending that DS did not need to deactivate when doing a gen, you could just leave the survivor in the ground. If they also had Unbreakable, then at least there was some time where they were not doing the gen. Sure it was not "fair" but hey, killers had options to do.
But after all, the Conspicuous Actions were added, because survivors were weaponizing it. My point is the same, do i have options? Yes of course i have, but even if i have them i still think its neither fair nor logic to get pusnished by an anti-tunnel perk if i am not even tunneling in the first place (talking about bodyblocking hits).
No need to get nitpicky with my example. What i just meant is "I hook survivor and leave to search others. Survivor is unhooked. I do not find any other survivor and some time later it just happen that i find the survivor that was hooked early."
Im sorry but on that case if i go after that survivor im for sure not tunneling them. There was time for the chase to be reset, and i didnt make my way to search for him, it just did happen to get in front of me, and leaving him would be just not playing correctly on purpose. Would be similar as survivors just stopping doing the gens and start watching the sky instead of repairing the gens.
Similar problem as everything related to doing gens is started to get called "gen rushing". Hooking a survivor two times even if you didnt hook other survivors in between, can or cannot be tunneling. It depends.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970879#Comment_3970879
Tunnelling is trying to get a player out of the game as fast as possible by focusing on them, regardless of the steps imbetween. If that's your goal you are Tunneling AKA focusing that person out.
Anti-Tunnel is to buy time for a survivor if they are being focused in chase to get free from the killer, stay in the game and allow them a turn to work on objectives by making them less enticing.
If you want it removed so badly, leave them alone or hit them as soon as possible. If they are following you they arent doing gens, right?As i explained in my first post, i don't think it's as easy as "just hit them or leave them". I shouldnt need to hit the one bodyblocking with OTR and i shouldnt need to leave the chase because one of them is bodyblocking with OTR. That is an anti-tunnel perk and im trying to go after other survivor, i should not be punished by an anti-tunnel perk if i am not tunneling.
And about your description…i do think is not that acurrate. So, for example, lets say i hook a survivor and leave the hook into other gens. The survivor gets unhooked. I dont find any other survivor on the map. Then i find other survivor and i hit him, but he goes into a strong looping zone and with no gens in it, so i leave it. I wander around the map and i find the survivor that i hooked, so i start a chase with it. It has been like 3-4 minutes since that survivor was unhooked.
By your description, i am tunneling the survivor. But i dont actually think that is actual tunneling.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970772#Comment_3970772
It's simple. It's not added to altruistic heals to not be abusable with syringes, some perks etc. It's main source of antitunnel that was a big step towards healthier game. While I'd argue that people with endurance might lose collision with killers, doing step back with deactivating antitunnel on altruistic actions is just straight contraproductive. 3-4 years back the game was in completely different and insanely unhealthier state for both sides, with a lot of balance done to perks, playstyles and maps both sides now have way more managable scenarios.
Ex1: You played Pig on old Thompson House that had total of 32 pallets and way stronger main building, you down someone after ages and they ratted in, pressed one button and the person was compeltely healthy.
Ex2: You got hooked, someone unhooked you, you have no base bt, random didn!t have bt, killer downed you within few seconds and moried you.
Ex3: You played killer, back then with only a few available slowdowns. You managed to kill two people and two survivors escaped through hatch for free.
Etc., etc. No point in punishing altruism when altruism was maint point to reach. As I said, people with endurance losing collisions with killer, why not. But doing steps back in game health, no. There are already 70 % of very strong killers that can down you quite quickly if they truly want to and not punishing tunneling would just make it even more played playstyle. The true thing game needs is to raise strenght of those 5 killers who suck.
You are going like extremely deep and i think you are exaggerating a tiny bit. Even if they made OTR/DS to go off when you heal to full is not going to of all sudden multiply tunneling x200 and make the game of all sudden far worse.
However… i must admit that i didnt think about the syringe addon and that could definetly be a problem as it is instant and a teammate can just deactivate your anti-tunnel perks even if you dont want it.
I think it could be coded for those cases. But still…. when it is really considered "tunneling"? It is usually when you go after the same person just after he got unhooked, but if you are already full healed the chase is fully reset 100%, so i think it loses a bit of the meaning of "tunneling".
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970761#Comment_3970761
It was mainly added because people with decisive strike were doing gens providing them invincibility. Since then they added consicious actions - healing self, blessing, cleansing… deactivating any source of endurance and decisive strike. So If you are unhook and want to heal yourself at price of deactivating antitunnel when killer can immidiately come back, it's your decision.
I know the reasons why it was added, what i meant it that it doesnt make sense that it deactivates when starting to heal but not when someone heals you to full. The interesting part is the last thing you said: "its your decision". But you can also stop being healed at any time if you want, so being healed to full its also your decision, the same as healing yourself.
If you decide to start healing yourself when the killer can come back, OTR/DS deactivates.
If you decide to let others heal you to full when the killer can come back, OTR/DS does not deactivate.
It was your decision in both cases.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970671#Comment_3970671
Nonsense is to deactivate antitunnel by altruistic heal. Only idiot will sit on hook, if you move away they'll have time to heal and you can go for the tunnel easily. It's like if you say that if gen get's exploded it would prevent from being blocked.
Out of curiosity… then why does it deactivate at the moment you start healing yourself? Same example can apply, the killer can go back for the tunnel easily after you start healing yourself.
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@Anti051 said:
OTR needs to remove player collision while active and deactivate when fully healed by any means. No more nonsense, please.
I thought about the losing collision thing, and i think it's a good idea. This could make the bodyblock at least impossible.
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@terumisan said:
otr ds dead hard and other perks that activate when hooked should be deactivated when fully healed. i agree with you
Well honestly i dont really consider Dead Hard an anti tunnel perk. It just happens to activate while wounded but it doesn't relate to being tunneled…
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@MechWarrior3 said:
For OG post what about DS if fully healed?
Honestly if its also an "anti-tunnel" perk, it should also deactivate when healed to full, as if you got healed it means that you were not being tunneled, or at least you took the decision that it was a good time to heal (the same way that start healing yourself deactivates both OTR and DS).
Having said that, at least you can chose to pick up the survivor or not if it tries go weaponize it by bodyblocking a teammate with it. With OTR either you hit the survivor a third time and lose even more time in the chase or you chose to not hit and you end also losing time in the chase by trying to reach the targeted survivor by going another way.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970252#Comment_3970252
I don't think that one of main antitunnel perk should be nerfed just because one of 50 games someone will block with it. I see blocking with base bt much more often and at this point, if they force you to tunnel, then be it.
And then once of every 50 games you get a Nurse and people seem to universally agree than she should be nerfed.
I do think that "small" things should not be overlooked just because they do not happen that much, as long as reasons do exist for them to be changed.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970222#Comment_3970222
True, they can. But how many times that happened to you? How many times people try to do that? People really crying about nonsenses while truly busted thingsthat are common exist. Surely you should punish people for altruistic gameplay removing any element other than "sit on gens" from the game, leaving it even more lose-lose, win-win scenarios. more people of gen the better. People really don't understand the game mechanics and want the game to be as easy as possible win "only one condition" to play. I play both sides, more of killer. But everyone should understand that half a killer don't care about OTR because their kit and more off gen actions happen the higher your odds of winning. If you want the game to become the gameplay of survivor = sit on gens, killer = tunnel and camp then surely. I feel the game needs to adjust stronger and weaker killers more in line along with stonger and weaker maps and than adjusting the core.
I mean, its not really needed to go that deep, honestly. If they can weaponize an anti-tunnel perk, then it should be looked at.
Yes, that doesn't mean there are other things that needs fixing in this game, on that i completely agree. But my point still persist: survivors should not be able to weaponize an anti-tunnel perk when the killer is not tunneling, no matter if that doesn't happen "a lot" or it does.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970226#Comment_3970226
Well, that's odd.
I wouldn't mind the stealth effects staying, but the endurance too? Seems like a bit of an oversight.
Yes, my main concern is about the endurance and the survivors weaponizing it to get an extra hit bodyblocking a survivor. Usually survivors can bodyblock one hit or even two if they dont mind to be downed to save a teammate, but with OTR they can tank up to 3 hits, actively punishing the killer with an "anti-tunnel" perk when he is not trying to tunnel.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
No it shouldn't deactivate when healed. If you barely get healed in time but the killer is still going back to hook for you that is still tunneling.
If your issue with OTR is using it aggressively to bodyblock for other survivors, I agree that's annoying and something that could be addressed, but having it deactivate when healed wouldn't be the best solution for that. You don't need to get healed to make that strategy effective.
May i ask you then why it deactivates the moment you start healing yourself, if the killer can still go back to the hook to keep tunneling you?
It makes sense because on that case you are the one deciding to heal and its full on you, however you can also stop being healed at any moment by pressing the run button, so being healed its also on you.
But on one case it deactivates and in the other does not, why then?
I totally understand that it doesn't deactivate the moment you start being healed because a teammate could totally ######### you up, but being healed to full its fully on you, the same as healing yourself.
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@SoGo said:
I didn't even know it didn't deactivate when you get healed. I thought that is a conspicous action.
Well, the more you know.
It gets deactivated at the moment you start healing yourself, however it does not if someone heals you even into full heal.
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@Elan said:
This would make no sense. If you run ds/resurgence meta or teammate has we'll make it and you have OTR then it doesn't mean you are not about to get tunneled. Killer can proxaycamp or immiditealy come back for you. The only way to get antitunnel would be if killer stays at hook and follows you after someone traded which makes absolutely no sense. Game design atm is shifting towards more healthy state. I'm still suprised how people want to do steps back that took ages to do. EGC is already killer friendly, and if someone is playing tunnel playstyle idm, but I don't see any reason why antitunnel should be removed while altruistically healed, not even saying that some killers have way easier time to tunnel than others. And if survivor heals himself, he already lost the protection so there is no problem.
So it is totally fine for the survivor to bodyblock the killer taking advantage of OTR?
Keep in mind that my main point of the discussion was mostly on weaponizing OTR. Usually a healthy survivor will take one hit trying to cover a mate. Two if they dont mind to be downed if they are desperate to save them.
Problem is people get healed and go bodyblock survivor and by how much time OTR stays on, they have plenty of time to do it, and they can now block up to 3 hits safely.
The main question is, why on this case i am being punished by an "anti-tunnel" perk when i am trying my hardest to not tunnel?