ad19970
ad19970
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After more experience with going against him I have to kinda agree that he has too little counterplay in chases. I personally don't think it's the same as with old Legion, old Legion had no counterplay at all, Deathslinger does. It's just that it's too little counterplay, since you are pretty much just constantly guessing when Deathslinger is going to shoot and trying to avoid that shot.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1197433#Comment_1197433
I am fine with the corn still being on the map, but it would be nice to have shorter corn that is slightly taller than the survivors crouch
I don't know, I think that would hurt the stealth potential the corn gives survivors too much. I think reducing map size and working on loops is enough to make maps like this balanced, stealth doesn't need to be nerfed on those maps.
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I agree I'm loving the sound of these changes. I think it's good that the cornfield maps are seeing changes, though personally I hope they don't decrease the size of the corn, I think stealth is something that shouldn't be nerfed for survivors. Having it's size reduced and the loops looked at is all that the Cornfield maps need in my opinion.
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@Ivaldi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1197336#Comment_1197336
I most likely will because the Devs are constantly catering to killers. Survivors have received nothing but nerfs for the last 6 months and yet Killers just continue to tell us to stop crying.. to "git good".. "survivors still to OP!". Tell us.. when is it going to be good enough? When you can down us in under 20 seconds? When you only need 1 hook instead of 3? When all of the pallets and windows are removed from the game? When we lose our ability to run? When the Devs give you the ability to see us anywhere on the map permanently?
Survivor Nerfs
Patch 3.3.1 - Insta Heals nerfed, Green Medkit charges nerfed from 24 to 16 charges.
Patch 3.4.0 - Balance Landing Nerfed to remove staggert reduction while exhausted.
Patch 3.5.0/3.5.2 - Lery's Rework (Survivor Nerf to hide totems, remove windows and add more unsafe pallet)
February 10 - Disconnect Penalties - Forces Survivors to have to play through matches, no matter how toxic the killer wants to be.
Patch 3.6.0 - Survivor Nerfs
1) Survivors can no longer sabotage Bear Traps
2) Dropped survivor wiggle progression reduced from 33% to 25%
3) Toolboxes Nerfed
4) Saboteur nerfed (cooldown added) & Hooks respawn faster
5) Addons nerfed to disappear at the end of each match
6) Autohaven Wreckers: Fixed an issue that allowed Survivors to use Dead Hard to get onto tires near a crane (Yet killers can still do it with Lunge)z
7) Breakable Walls added
Dev Update April 2020 - Survivor Nerf - Reduced repair speeds when working with other survivors, maps reworked to prevent survivors from being able to actually escape from a killer.
No, it's enough when killers have enough counterplay to keep up with the fast gen times on every map, not just some maps. I know people like you just accuse others of wanting to 4k every game, because that's the easiest way to go, but in reality killers just want to have a fair chance of winning as well on any map.
Also, while killers don't want to be able to end every chase in 20 seconds, I don't think you realise how fast killers need to be able to end chases in order to keep up with gen times.
These upcoming changes sound great and will probably balance out the game well. You make it sound like the devs are taking any counterplay that survivors away, which is just not true, not even in the slightest. They are just trying to give killer enough counterplay on any map to have a fair chance of winning.
Also, a few other balance changes that happened in past updates you have forgotten to mention:
- Buffed healing speed of medkits when healing other survivors
- Nurse nerf
- Spirit nerf
- Freddy addon nerf
- Ruin nerf
- Sabotage buff
Also, taking a closer look at your list makes me think you are extremely biased. You mention balanced landing nerf and freaking dc penealties, which has nothing to do with balancing, but ignore any nerf to killer. And then you mention the changes to sabotage that make it sound like a nerf without mentioning the good changes to sabotage, like the time to sabotage a hook being reduced to 2.5 seconds. You can't be serious, or? How ridiculous is that?
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1197304#Comment_1197304
But read the forums, thats what they want. These people feel entitled to 20 second chases no matter how they play.
No that's not the case, only maybe for a few special people who want to 4k every single game no matter how good survivors play.
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The gen changes are very small, they really won't be bad at all. And getting more maps into a balanced state is also a good thing, it won't make solo survivor impossible in any way, but allow killers enough counterplay on every map, not just some maps.
Of course, Moris and keys need nerfing, Moris moreso than keys in fact. Hopefully they'll get to Moris in the next patch.
However, it's probably also matchmaking or the rank system that is screwing you a bit, teaming you up with players that are better or worse than you, or allowing you to get to a rank where you shoudln't yet be. That's why solo survivor can be quite rough at the moment.
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Seems like a bit of an overreaction though. Killers that rely on Bloodlust to end chases will most likely lose anyways because they are wasting too much time waiting for Bloodlust to build up.
No doubt that it will need to be removed once maps are more or less balanced though, and the devs will certainly get to that.
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This goes both ways, and has always been the case. It's an easy way to try and devalue someone's opinion.
I've been called a survivor main because I have suggested nerfs to camping and tunneling, and a killer main for defending Doc because I think he is in a balanced state.
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I mean maps have always been a problem for killers, as many are survivor sided. So it's pretty safe to assume that at least most of these changes will be buffs to killers. Good buffs of course, but buffs nevertheless.
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Killers can only get so good on certain maps. This has nothing to do with killer players not wanting to get better, but wanting to have a fair chance of winning on all maps, not just some.
Trying to get better on a map until you win on that map has nothing to do with balance.
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@1MillionPalletsToGo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1196711#Comment_1196711
- no disrespect 2 u but, either SWF is bad or, it isnt. your comment is a lot of flip-flopping..Overall SWF is bad. its another OP perk survivors get. you even mentioned ''where you as killer probably had no chance of winning against that team'' so, that validates the criticism even more.
- what do you mean ''fully competitive'' ...thats flip-flopping again...this game is mostly competitive so, might as well say it is. its a VS game and, it has ranks....it has penalties and a report feature so, im gonna go with it is competitive.
Swf isn't as bad as some people seem to think it is, that's my point. I get that swf survivors have advantages over solo survivors, but again I don't think it is that bad. And when I say that there might be some games where a killer doesn't really have a chance to win, I mean matches where the killer gets a bad map or is just unlucky.
I also agree that the game has competitive traits, but I don't think the game is an actual competitive game. Addons and items are one of the main reasons, the various rng that affects the outcome of a match is another reason.
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@Nurgling7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1196478#Comment_1196478
The devs should have put both these changes and the Ruin destruction in the same patch, tbh. It was generally agreed upon that maps were the issue and the devs pretty much just dismissed that notion when they nerfed Ruin.
They should have acknowledged Ruin not working the way they wanted and maps being a problem in the same patch. Everybody wins(or are equally upset/placated).
But it takes work to implement these changes, so they couldn't. That happens.
They did say in their Q&A that they are aware of map sizes being a problem, and that they are keeping an eye on gen times and how fast matches go. They simply can't implement everything in one patch. No reason to jump the gun and immediately accuse the devs of only caring for survivors. And the same now goes for this patch and biased survivor mains.
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I am rank 1 with killer and I don't think swf is nearly as bad as some people say it is. I do get that swf creates some imbalances, and it can cause the one or other game where you as killer probably had no chance of winning against that team, but it's still not as bad as others make it out to be in my opinion.
The only way to improve swf balance is to buff solo survivors to lessen the gap between solo and swf survivors, and balance killers accordingly, but even then you'll never be able to properly close the gap. SWF will always have a bit of an advantage, but it's not that bad in my opinion, and I also think this game shouldn't be seen as a fully competitive game, it isn't.
I do think Object of Obsession is a problem because of swf though.
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@CallMeLs said:
In the screenshots They legit moved the window like 2 ft from where they were before, the god loops will still exist, none of these minor chances help the killer in any capacity they’re way too small to. Severe underkill.
How are these loops not improved a lot for killers? The fact there's a doorway close to the window will help killers so much to deal with those loops. These windows shouldn't be made useless either.
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I don't see how those windows will be useless. The walls besides the windows are still big enough to gain distance to the killer.
I am also going to guess they are changing the layout of Wrecker's Yard more so than the size. I'm hopeful that the basement might not be in the exact middle anymore.
Also, many maps have a lot of safe loops, and some of them can chain into each other, so them changing some tiles on those maps is a good thing. They are mainly just making sure killers have more consistent counterplay no matter which map they are on, which they need.
The nerfs to gens are very small, but will be noticeable. But again, I think they will be healthy for the game to balance out the gameplay for killers as well, and give them just a tad bit more time to have a chance to apply enough map and gen pressure.
Whether a few of the top tier killers might need some small nerfs is something that can then be seen, though I don't think these changes will make any killer op. If anything I could maybe see a small nerf to Freddy or Hillbilly being needed though, at least once most maps are balanced. Not sure about that though.
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@Nurgling7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1196228#Comment_1196228
This. This is why I say this change is laughable. It was already common knowledge that 3 or more on a gen was pointlessly inefficient. 2 people per gen is still pretty efficient.
Well it shouldn't be made useless either. Survivors do need a chance to repair all 5 gens as well.
Also, I definitely had matches were two or three more seconds could have gotten me a down on one survivor and maybe even a hit against another survivor before the gen they were working on got repaired. 2.5 seconds doesn't sound like much, but it can definitely make a difference.
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What the hell?6 maps are having their size reduced. According to you those killers would already have to be op on most other maps.
Hillbilly and Hag are fine on most maps, making particularly big maps smaller won't therefore won't make them op.
I can see a reason to nerf at least Hillbilly slightly after most maps are more balanced, no doubt, but we haven't even seen the map changes yet.
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Are you surprised? Killer mains did the exact same thing when Ruin was reworked. It was beyond obvious that some survivor mains would come crawling out of their caves to now accuse the devs of being killer sided, the same way killer mains did when Ruin was nerfed. All the changes that BHVR have been making in the many patches for quite a while have been pretty good in my opinion, but some people only see one single patch, realise that it favors one side, and then accuse the devs of favoring that one side, without considering the context of these balance changes one bit. It's stupid, but sadly reality.
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@gnehehe said:
I agree with you
Imagine a typical game without any DS / OoO on survivor side (often the case when you play without DS and with 3 randoms):
- low tier M1 killer with STBFL perk to help during chases ... he will not know about the DS-free game and the opportunity to remove early one player from the game
- high tier killer with pop-weasel perk ... he will be allowed to tunnel people without any penalty, even bonuses to maximize the use of the pop-weasel perk (more easy to down an already injured people to get a new pop) ... 3 man game with pop is an autopilot win if the 4th player has been removed early in the game (same issue with moris and pop-weasel perk)
You want to play other perks for fun ... and you just offer a free ticket to the killer: be rewarded by playing the most unfun way.
This is why there should be an obsession in every game ... whatever the perks used by all 5 players: the Entity simply chooses an obsession at start
I never understood why this is not the case @Peanits
Having an obsession every game despite no survivor having an obsession perk would be great, but in particular I am hopeful that the devs will find a way to nerf camping and tunneling in some way, to make those strategies less effective. Especially now that killers are getting changes to maps that will help them to have more counterplay, and even a small gen nerf, I think it's more likely that these strategies might be looked into in the future without as much backlash from killer mains.
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The devs care for their playerbase, that's why they are making these changes.
The reason this patch is killer sided is because many maps are survivor sided and need some balancing. These changes are very good and should make matches more balanced when considering how fast gens can be repaired.
It's honestly quite crazy. All these killer mains crying over how the devs are so survivor sided, which isn't true aswe can see, and now that there's one killer sided patch that adresses the biggest balance problems in the game, people accuse the devs of being killer sided. I wouldn't want to be one of the people responsible for the game's balance at the moment.
Also, if new survivors are constantly getting destroyed by killers, it's one of two problems: Either they are going against killers the clearly shouldn't, or it's because killer is way easier to pick up than survivor, none of which have anything to do with balancing.
If anything, the devs should maybe look into somehow lowering the skill floor for survivors, and improving the tutorials for both sides, but especially for survivors.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1196187#Comment_1196187
Well thats it, camping and tunneling.
For years now killers have wanted 2 things - more time, some problematic maps reworked. Finally they get that.
Survivors just want less camping/tunneling. Both strategies can still be incredibly strong against non-swf. Its not healthy for the game and needs to be worked on next.
Once thats done the game will be in a good spot, bugs aside.
Well lets wait then. This patch feels a lot like BHVR trying to make killer mains understand that they don't just care for survivors. And if the map changes are as impactful as I believe they will be, then I think the devs will also start taking a look at camping and tunneling as well.
I could definitely imagine less people being against camping and tunneling once more maps are made balanced, so after this update the devs would also not have to fear as much about being accused of being survivor sided if they look at ways to nerf camping and tunneling.
People who think killers should be buffed again and again but are then strictly against any nerfs to camping or tunneling, well I feel like those people are just too biased to be paid attention too.
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I guess these posts were as inevitable as all the killer main posts about the Ruin nerf ruining the entire game.
These balance changes are there to try and make the game a more balanced experience for killers as well. Making a few maps that are really big smaller is not a bad thing, it just allows killers to apply a bit more map pressure. In general these map changes are only made to allow the killer to have a bit more counterplay in order to compete with the fast gen times, so that both sides have a fair chance of winning.
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@SpaceCoconut said:
I imagine it will be like the Original Pale Rose map compared to the Current Pale Rose map.
The changes will be noticeable, but they're not going to exactly be game changing by themselves. The tile and jungle gym changes on top of it though are what make this patch very exciting.
That would be great actually. Pale Rose in particular was one of the most unbalanced maps in the game, but now since it's rework, I would say it's one of the most balanced maps in the game.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1196168#Comment_1196168
Or maybe the hyperbole was due to how many people complain here daily that the game is only about survivor fun?
They addressed some of the biggest killer complaints and thats good, but so far nothing about the biggest survivor complaints.
What are the biggest survivor complaints though? I mean for me it would be camping and tunneling, but that's less a balance issue because those aren't op strategies or anything, a killer can still play normally and probably do better. Whereas maps and the upcoming changes have an impact on how well killers can do on those maps, so they affect the balance of a match completely.
I'm not saying that camping or tunneling isn't a problem though, I definitely hope those strategies will be nerfed some day.
I do agree that after this patch, the devs should probably look into some of the biggest frustrations that survivors have as well.
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@ClickyClicky said:
Given that the game only seems to be about the killer enjoyment as this point I’d imagine DS will be reworked quite soon.
Seriously? I guess because you are saying that because in the next patch maps will become more balanced for killers now?
I guess we are at that point in the game's life cycle, where one side gets buffed in one patch, and the other side immediately cries that the devs only care about the side that's getting buffed. Completely ignoring the balance changes or the context of those changes.
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They are making some of the huge maps a bit smaller, nothing more. There's no reason to assume that these maps will become way too small for survivors to not have a chance to win.
This game needs map changes for killers to have better chances to combat the fast gen repair speed of survivors. These changes look like they are going in a really good direction to give killers more counterplay, so they don't end up feeling like they didn't have a chance to win.
The fact is that survivors are suffering through far longer queue times than killers, and I am hopeful that these changes will even queue times out again. BUt there's no reason that these changes will make certain maps killer sided.
The only map I am a bit worried about is Coal Tower, since it's getting it's window fixed and it will see some tile changes, and I think that map is already perfectly balanced.
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I don't think Pop is overpowered in any way to be honest. It's a good stalling perk for killers to combat the fast gens, but not overpowered. However, the devs have said that they want to nerf the synergy of slow down perks in the future, so that stacking multiple slow down perks becomes less effective.
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This patch feels a bit like the devs want to once and for all shut up all the people who were accusing them of being survivor sided. The changes look really good.
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Of course we need to wait to see how these changes are tomorrow, but I think it's fairly safe to say that this patch is looking real good. I doubt these changes will all have barely any effect. Just look at the three images that depict changes to god loops, those loops look much better now.
Add to that the gen nerfs and I feel like this game might be in a very healthy spot balance wise after the patch. I'm hopeful that killer and survivor queue times even out after this new patch.
In fact, depending on how impactful this patch is for killers, I think it might be smart to take a look at some of survivors biggest frustrations as well in updates after this one. Camping and tunneling, as well as certain op killer addons and Moris.
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I'm gonna guess that at least some of these incidents have to do with the struggling mechanic. It's quite easy to accidentally ######### because you didn't button mash fast enough, or even because of lag. The struggle mechanic is absolutely horrendous.
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I disagree, I personally don't think he is overpowered. I get that he is easier to use than most killers, but you still need the skillset that you need for any killer, so I wouldn't say he takes no skill.
I understand why some people think he is unfun to go against though. Once more maps become more balanced he will need some nerfs though, in my opinion.
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I think it's only unfair when exit gates spawn to close to each other.
Let's be fair, especially against certain killers, it's also highly unlikely that all four survivors escape, even after completing all their objectives. It's only fair that the last survivor still gets a chance to escape.
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Thanks. That really isn't someone you want to work with at all, I don't get how he only got 3 years.
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@ZoneDymo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1192092#Comment_1192092
hell you could just look it up
I mean I searched in google for license holder of The Creeper but that's it. Didn't want to go on a search so I just asked.
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@TrappinMan said:
The Creeper isn't likely because of the man who holds the liscence. No one wants to work with him or pay him on it.
That said, Candyman is pretty likely, all things considered. And I'd love to see a Deadite killer(Evil Ash, Henrietta, or maybe the Cougar), and a Left 4 Dead monster( Tank would be my choice, but I think Charger is more likely.)
What exactly is the problem with the license holder of The Creeper?
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I mean if you care for the rift a lot I would probably wait until it is revealed which killers the third tome focuses on.
But in general, I would definitely say Oni. He is very powerful, and even with current gen times, actually viable in my opinion. And I personally find him to be very fun to use.
Legion has Discordance as a teachable perk though, which is far better than any of Oni's teachable perks in my opinion.
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@designator said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1191378#Comment_1191378
Yes because there wasn't enough counterplay between entity blocker, bloodlust, learning when to drop a chase, mindgames, bamboozle, and maybe USING YOUR POWER. There are killers who unironically believe that killer shack is an infinite as well and maybe they should not be leading the balance discussion.
Bloodlust and entity blocker isn't counterplay, and mindgames are not possible at god loops like that in Ironworks. Dropping a chase because survivors get to safe spots should not be possible. It's true that some killers can counter these loops with their power though, but any killer who can't is pretty much screwed.
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@SurviveByDaylight said:
Survivors get cheated out of their chances a lot of the time playing this game. Killers come in with ebony Mori’s, iridescent heads combined with infantry belts giving them 3 one hit down ranged attacks per locker reload, a plethora of ways to get exposed on you, one hit downs, the ability to spin whilst doing their lunge attacks which shouldn’t be a thing considering the fact that by definition lunge attacks are a forward thrust in one direction. If a survivor jukes you, you shouldn’t be allowed to move around/change direction while you’re holding down that basic attack button - that’s just my opinion.
It seems like you post the same crap on literally every thread you post something on. Complaints about Moris, insta downs and what not. We get it, you don't like Moris. Barely anyone likes Moris. How aren't you banned yet?
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@Shocktober said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1190868#Comment_1190868
Then it's Hawkins. Where every pallet is almost a free hit. It doesn't take any skill to mindgame a pallet where it takes maybe 1 second to hide your red stain (if you even need to) and go to the other side. Or if you screw it up enough you get a free hit with bloodlust.
The macmillan and coldwind unsafe pallets are what the game should have. You actually get a chance to outplay the killer at the pallet and move onto another loop, instead of just taking free damage because you didn't stun the killer in the world of dedicated server hits.
What macmillan and coldwind pallets are unsafe? Most of those pallets are safe and don't allow a killer to get a hit against any survivor that is optimal at those loops, unless they have Bloodlust 2 or 3 maybe.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1190984#Comment_1190984
Thank you for the Screenshot. Now I just hope that this is not just a breakable Wall, but an actual doorway.
What's the problem with breakeable walls though? I actually like the idea of windows being safe at first, and only becoming less safe once the nearby wall is broken. So the safety of windows change during a match.
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If the survivor is being chased around the part where the pallet is, can't the survivor still run the killer around that window three times, assuming it's a killer that doesn't have a power to help counter looping? Because the killer running around the window and through the door should still allow the survivor to get enough distance to make the window another time.
Still, looks better than it was before, happy we are actually getting changes to these ridiculous loops in the next patch.
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@WRussoW said:
Wow, you, guys, are really quick at finding your new nerf targets. Before the Spirit nerf the Hillbilly was the most balanced killer in the game, his add-ons and the power were fine but now all of a sudden something is not right.
Why? It seems like most agree that he is fine and doesn't need any nerfs, only changes to his addons at the most.
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@Kwikwitted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1187351#Comment_1187351
Ah yes, I like how booze is considered "essential" in these times.
I wouldn't be suprised if it kinda is. I mean gamers like us are not nearly as affected by being locked in the house like others, and even then it's starting to at least drive me crazy.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1182071#Comment_1182071
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1182240#Comment_1182240
Sorry for the late answer, hardly here anymore.
It can spawn, doesn't always. Killer Shack into junglegym with long wall, ayrun even made a video about it and you can find it on his youtube.
Ok no problem, but I wouldn't call that an infinite. At least I believe it isn't one. I do agree that such structures shouldn't exist, because they are pretty much uncounterable as killer, but that's rng.
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@EvilJoshy said:
I don't play with DS. If I need it to survive then I shouldn't have escaped. I don't use it because I try to get better at looping/routing.
No skill in the World can prevent the killer from tunneling you right off the hook. That has nothing to do with having to get better at the game.
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While I definitely don't get tunneled almost every game, I do think DS is kind of an necessaty in order to be able to more reliably enjoy the game. Without it, you too often just allow the killer to easily tunnel you out of the match.
The fact that some people seem to think that all killers need to be buffed, and then also complain about perks like DS absolutely baffles me. Or the fact that people want DS nerfed and then get completely offended by people who want NOED nerfed.
Buffing weaker killers and balancing the extremely survivor sided maps, sure. But DS can not be nerfed without tunneling and camping being looked at.
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@Sunbreaker7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1184470#Comment_1184470
I know the matchmaking is screwed, I am talking about when I am going against my level players in red rank. I would not make a thing out of this if I was comparing my result as a rank 1 against none red rank players xd
Yes that's why I said that the rank system is also flawed. There are many people at red ranks that certainly don't belong there.
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@MrDardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1184303#Comment_1184303
Wait, I didn't even realize they removed the downside of the Shock Range Add-Ons. The hell, I mean, I usually think that Survivor stuff is mostly busted but they gave him bonus chase potential with no negatives. That seems stupid. I use Discipline but I didn't realize they removed the downsides of the range AddOns.
I guess we received Omega Doctor.
To be fair most addons don't have a downside, and I wouldn't say the effects of the range addons are that crazy.
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Broken as in it's better than intended, or just too good as it is now? Either way, while Doctor is pretty balanced in my opinion, I do think his counterplay is relatively close to the minimum counterplay any killer should have, so decreasing that with any addon is not a good idea.
Maybe they could add a different effect to Discipline somewhere down the line. No idea what though.
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I guess I'm lucky that I haven't had these issues at all yet. I hope it stays that way.