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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2467401#Comment_2467401
S Tier? She can’t hear footsteps and Iron Will is very common, so basically every game she’s facing invisible survivors while phasing. Scratch marks aren’t reliable enough to use her power vs an Iron Will user.
Players shouldn’t be required to have the hearing ability of a dolphin to play her at a normal level.
Survivors don't have anything more to work with when going against Spirit either. If anything this makes her fairer.
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There are certain walls you can't collide with, he's simply bugged a bit. It sucks and I really hope the devs fix this one day. But if you play him enough you will learn which objects you can bounce off and which not. He is still extremely strong.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466816#Comment_2466816
Where do I even start...
First of all, BNP still exist. While not being as strong as they used to be, they still enable survivors to complete all 5 gens in 3 minutes or less.
The experiment was important because a killer can't always use his power for one reasonor another. A huntress can be looped so tight, that she won't be able to use her power.
Otz had another experiment where he tried to down survivors only using the power. He had to use m1, because it wasn't possible for him.
Good survivors know how to loop and when even a stream powerhouse like otz has problems, then the balance is off.
Survivors shouldn't be able to complete gens in the time they complete them now. Killers struggle heavily with the current gen speed. Hell, today I've seen a streamer come up with a build that contained 4 slowdown perks. Killers shouldn't be forced to take so many slowdown perks to have a decent match.
What do killers do when they lose 3 gens in the first chase? They camp. Of course they do, because they feel cornered. Survivors would do the same if they were all on death hook.
So you try to discredit my opinion because I understand the motivation behind camping? Show me a single survivor who walks past a 90% and regressing gen. Survivors even go straight to a gen once they get off the hook. No healing until the gen is gone.
I play solo survivor on red ranks. But somehow I'm biased, because I don't agree with you.
What are you on about? I'm giving you counterarguments, not discrediting your opinion. You are the one talking smack about survivor mains if anything, at which point I pointed out that it makes it seem like you care very little for survivors. That and of course that you seem to only want killer problems addressed.
I've already explained why the experiment is not representative of this game's balance, so I'll skip that now.
Huntress is map dependent, fair enough, but a good Huntress can definitely get hits with her hatchets on most maps, no matter how good they are. Survivors do have counterplay against Huntress though, that's true.
But there is not one single killer that can't use their power for multiple minutes. I fail to see how that's possible. Even with Huntress. There will always be moments where she can use her hatchets, can you give me an example where a Huntress can't use her hatchets for multiple minutes?
Of course, with a killer, you want to use both their power and M1. You want to play them as effective as possible, which Otz surely isn't doing when he is not using one of the abilities of the killer. Again, survivors being able to loop even Otz for multiple minutes, especially when they have just as much experience, on a survivor sided map like Cowshed without Otz using his power, is not a good example of balance, because no one will play a killer like that. The same goes for using only the killers power and not their M1.
BNPS are still an annoyance when multiple survivors use them, I am not going to argue with that.
And again, you seem to be derailing from the topic that was discussed, this time regarding camping. Now I do understand the motives of camping. But one of my arguments is that it's extremely unfun to go against and a cheap way of winning a game. A game certainly isn't lost after 3 gens are repaired, and if you are good with killer, 3 gens won't always get repaired after the first hook. Resorting to camping is simply a very easy and at least in some cases kind of a cheap way to somehow secure a kill, instead of playing normally. And that can't be the case anymore at the latest when survivors receive another objective.
That's what I was addressing. This has nothing to do with killers camping after 3 gens get repaired in the state the game is right now. This has to do with camping, and tunneling, becoming too powerful if a second objective was added to the game. I'm not sure why you would bring up camping as it is now in the game?
I generally don't blame killer players for camping though, I blame the game for having it be a viable strategy sometimes. In fact, there are situations where a killer is kind of required to camp, when multiple survivors are close to the hook for example, though at that point I wouldn't even call it camping anymore.
I understand that killer can feel stressful, and I would be happy if that was improved on, but that doesn't mean the game is so unbalanced. Killer is certainly more punishing, which I guess is why the game can feel more unbalanced than it actually is.
But adding a second objective without addressing camping and tunneling at all is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.
To be fair, there is a small part in me that would like to see that happen, just to see if I am right about killer queue times sky rocketing. And if that was the case, at least I would get to see all the killer mains coming to the forums and complaining about how long they have to wait to play the game. The downside is that I am a killer main myself and would probably stop playing the game.
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@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466384#Comment_2466384
I see you dont understand the point of this post. Its not to badmouth this build, its just a decent build which you can use on auto-pilot. Its an example i came up with bc many people said that ruin/undying/tinkerer is braindead, so i wanted to show what is really braindead. Kinda lead their argument ad absurdum.
This post isnt even written in a serious tone, i partly tried to imitate a telemaketer and i used some snappy phrases. I had fun writing this, but maybe my intent wasnt clear bc my english isnt fluent, so its on me.
And for the strength of the build. I know that it is not the strongest, but no build will give you consistently free downs. And you will probably lose a lot against decent survivor, but if every survivor would be decent, you couldnt use 70% of the killer. When i remember correctly i got a 80% winrate with old wraith with this build a year ago. I didnt play braindead, but i played wraith with bone clapper and the uncloak without TR. Anyway the point of this build is to not think, winning isnt that important. Its enough that you have a chance against average red ranks with low effort.
As last another topic: which info could i give in my threads that i dont need to deal with this assumption comments anymore?
I have 2500 hours.
I play both sides equally
I have maybe a 75% winrate (4k/3k hatch
I have some addonless 25 winstreaks with some killer
Fair enough, my point is just that braindead still isn't really accurate. Because you still have to have some form of skill in order to win chases against good survivors.
But I guess my suspicion was wrong, I'm sorry about that. Honestly, I don't know what one could change. But I would argue "braindead" has a bit of a negative tone towards anyone using this build, because it kind of implies that the people using this build don't need to use their brains at all. Which could be a bit insulting to some?
I do understand that the term "braindead" is used because it's used for Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer as well though.
I guess this post just sounded like a complaint about Spirit Fury and Enduring.
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You really can't blame people for wanting to use the most effective build. The biggest problem is that so many perks in this game are just not very good.
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All I want BHVR to do is to fix and improve the zombie AI. Have them not get stuck so often, and maybe have them focus gens a bit more, and keep them away from hooked survivors, and maybe a bit from loops as well.
They should be the element of Nemesis that adds map pressure.
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@Shaped said:
People dislike what works for others.
If it was some weak meme build no one would complain.
@[Deleted User] said:
Because it's good. Ruin+Undying is the best gen regression. Tinkerer is great information with a bonus undetectable status effect. You can't exactly counter tinkerer, you have to play around it
It's not because it's good and works for killers. It's because it can be pretty damn oppressive when the killer knows exactly whenever a gen is about to be finished, and the gen then regresses when he chases survivors off of that gen. It's incredibly powerful on killers with mobility.
It's not an auto win as some people seem to think, but it arguably does too much for a killer.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466364#Comment_2466364
You say, that you saw the video. But it looks like you didn´t understand what it was about.
Bringing up the Trappers power is redundant for the discussion of that experiment. It was simply to have a 115% movement speed killer and how long it takes to down a survivor as a m1 killer. Thats about it. A Hag or Huntress would have taken even longer without their power. Because they are slower.
But since you ask, survivors need 3 minutes or less to complete all 5 gens. Therefore a single chase shouldn´t be anywhere near that amount of time. For obvious reasons. Especially when a killers objective is to get 12 hooks.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466379#Comment_2466379
Camping (and tunneling) both have been addressed in the past. BT has been buffed several times to make the life of a camper significantly harder.
You ask how a secondary objective would look like, well luckily we had that short amount of time between the Undying release and its nerf. During that time, camping was practically non existant. Or so it seemed. Because survivors didn´t complain about camping (or tunneling) but about having to do totems. That killers get a free win when they use Undying Ruin.
What those survivors didn´t mention was, that in order to get ANY benefit/regression out of Ruin, the killer had to constantly switch targets and roam all gens. A camping killer wouldn´t have gotten any benefit out of it. Neither a tunneling killer.
Sadly, survivor preferred getting camped and tunneled (actual quote!) than doing totems.
And here we are! Back to camping and tunneling because survivors just want to hug gens.
Ok, so now you are starting to argue against your own point.
I obviously didn't miss the point of the video. You said it yourself, it was an experiment to see how long it takes for an M1 killer without power and normal movement speed to down a survivor on one of the most survivor sided maps in the game. Alas, it is pretty much in no way representative of the game's balance, because you are stripping the power of the killer away, which is his main advantage, and to top it off, you are playing on a map that is notoriously known to be one of the most survivor sided maps.
So now tell me how I am missing the point? Because I was talking about the actual game's balance at the start, at which point you brought up this video after I said Otz is a good example of why this game isn't that survivor sided anymore. Yet that video has very little to do with the game's balance.
And furthermore, it takes longer for survivors to do all gens than 3 minutes. If the killer gets not a single hook during the match, and for whatever reason never tries to chase any other survivor off of a gen as well as applies no map pressure whatever, than maybe they'll be able to repair all gens under 3 minutes. But a killer has to play seriously bad for that to happen, especially on balanced maps. Even on maps like Cowshed, matches shouldn't go by that fast.
Also, your attempt to now blame survivors for camping and tunneling again just supports the idea that you do not care for the survivor side even in the slightest, your bias is very obvious. If there is something in the game that seems op to many people, than they are allowed to complain about it. That doesn't mean they prefer to be camped instead.
Yes, Ruin and Undying was a good combo that only really rewarded killers that didn't camp. But that doesn't mean it was completely balanced, and it's still fairly good at the moment as well. And of course there were still killers that would camp despite those perks.
And the idea that no killer would camp if killers had more time is absolutely ridiculous. You don't actually believe that, or? I am sure there are some players that would camp much less, or simply stop to camp, but there are still enough people that would continue to camp. Because if you buff killers with something like a second objective for survivors, the camping and tunneling strategies will also become stronger. And those strategies becoming even better, rewarding a killer with a win, would be absolutely awful. So we would need a second objective that doesn't buff camping and tunneling in the slightest, which would mean interaction from the killer as well. But even then, camping and tunneling will surely still profit from those buffs a bit as well. So they would need to be nerfed nevertheless. You can't expect killers getting their main problem adressed but survivors not.
I also understand that there is counterplay to camping and tunneling, but slap on NOED, and the killer will still be almost guaranteed a 2 kill every match. For extremely little effort. The counterplay also doesn't always work, and it also doesn't solve the problem that it's incredibly unfun to go against.
Not to mention that perks like BT and DS are the only real counters to that strategy. But guess what, killers have perks that counter gen speeds as well. So just use those perks. We are getting three new slowdown perks with Pinhead as well, two of them seem pretty good already. Isn't that great?
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I fail to see how Nemesis is one of the weakest killers.
And even if Pinhead doesn't get any buffs from the ptb, I doubt he will be the weakest as well because he does have that built in slowdown.
Since Oni we also got Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, and most notibly, Blight, who is a top 3 killer for most people.
And since Twins we only got Trickster and Nemesis. I really don't feel like the killers we have been getting are in average so much weaker.
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I don't really think Moris are toxic. I guess they do help you tunnel a survivor that got to the second hook stage, because you don't have to pick them up anymore and therefore can't get hit by DS. But toxic surely not.
Items and powers themselves are rarely toxic. If anything, it's how people use them. I personally wouldn't call original moris toxic, they were just severely overpowered. People just used them to tunnel everyone directly off the hook, which seems kind of toxic.
Though again I think players that tunnel are less to blame than the devs that still haven't fixed the issue that tunneling can be so effective.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466395#Comment_2466395
I played this Combo on Blight when I prestiged him (granted, I did not always have every Perk at Tier 3, but I had them all available for each time prestiging) and I won almost all of my games, despite not being really good with Blight. (But, to make it clear - this was also old Undying, so even stronger than now)
I got really carried by those Perks.
It can surely be the decisive factor between winning and losing a match, for sure. But I just don't think it wins you a match by default. You still have to win chases and downs survivors as well. And there can be scenarios where it might not be the smartest choice to go to the gen that is about to be repaired.
If the survivors are very good, you still have to put effort into the match as well and be good with Blight or whatever killer you are using the build on, even with Blight. Although Blight is usually the biggest offender with this combo.
I wonder if adding a cooldown to Tinkerer would fix this problem.
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I do agree to an extent. This game can feel more unbalanced than it is. Especially as killer.
I think one of the main reasons for this is also the fact that killer can be so punishing, early on especially. A few misplays, and/or a few times being outplayed by a survivor, and suddenly you lost three gens without a single hook. It feels rough, and the problem is, that you get the feeling that even if you would have played perfectly, things would still not be looking so good. because generally, you wouldn't expect a few mistakes on your side or a few outplays of the enemy player to have such an impact on the match.
I think that's one of the biggest problems, people underestimating how impactful the first few chases can be. If you don't do well during those chases, chances are survivors are already working on the last gen. And then suddenly it seems like even playing perfectly wouldn't have won you the game, because it's so hard to judge how a match would have played out if you didn't have made those few misplays, and one can easily underestimate how much impact those few misplays have.
Obviously there are other factors as well. Some maps are still very survivor sided, and RNG can play a noticeable role too when it comes to the outcome of a match.
In general I think the biggest problems this game has right now is that killer can feel too stressful and survivor games can be a complete waste of time and beyond boring when going against camping and tunneling killers.
Making killer less stressful could be easily fixed by adding some form of second objective that slows the game down at the beginning of the match, but it can easily break the game as well if it adds a substaintial amount of objective time. If one of the stronger killers in this game has a good start right from the get go, matches can already go well for that killer, with a second objective at the beginning of a match, it could easily end up causing matches to be pretty much won by the killer if they do very well at the beginning of a match. Which could just end up making survivor matches much more stressful.
Camping and tunneling would also need to be adressed in the same patch in which a second objective was added, or I fear killer queue times would become very long.
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@HollowsGrief said:
No where nearly as bad as the small PP survivors had. At least you can break two of his perks and sometimes (most of the time) you spawn right on top of them.
On the other hand, the DS/Unbreakeable Combo was only good for the first 60 seconds after getting unhooked, and could only be used once, or twice, if you got both perks to work.
Tinkerer with Ruin and Undying can proc many times if the totems aren't found fast enough, often letting you prevent a gen from being repaired. And having it regress again.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
The combo is braindead.
It's overpowered, at least on killers like Blight, yes, but not braindead. Why do people always have to exaggerate this much? Even with this build, you won't be handed victories with no effort.
It's the same with the stupidly titled "small pp build"" for survivors. Sure it was op, but it didn't win matches for you.
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I have a strong suspicion you got stomped by someone using that build.
Yes this build certainly makes chasing and finding survivors easier, but if you think all it takes are these four perks to just turn off you brain and still do well, then I don't know what to say. You won't be handed downs just by using this build.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2457726#Comment_2457726
1) In the case that HG gets found first, survivors still see 2 glowing totems. I guarantee you, that someone will cleanse that totem. Which will expose survivors and possibly give hooks. While Undying is simply gone. Sure, it protects that other perks. But totem spawn aren´t great to begin with. With totems spawning on top of a hill, next to gens or right in front of the exit gates. So even when Undying protects Ruin, it won´t survive much longer. Currently i often hear 2 thunderstrucks with a time difference of 30 seconds or less. When the killer uses this obsolete combo.
2) You make this sound like survivors aren´t a team of 4. Its not necessary that the hooked survivor goes back to that gen, when other survivors can go there. Survivors have several ways of communicating the position of a (progressed) gen. Oh and with the exception of Devour Hope, there is not a single Hex perk that i would consider "damn powerful".
3) During the 5th anniversary surprisingly many survivors switched to killer, because they thought (wrongly) that killers earn more bloodpoints. The result was killer queues between 2 and 5 minutes during primetime. The day after the whole event ended, killer queues became instant and survivors had queues between 2 and 5 minutes during primetime. This amount of time isn´t exactly what i would call a shortage. I remember a time a few years ago, where survivors had queues of up to 45 minutes. THAT was a shortage.
Killers have a additional objective to their 12 hooks, while 4 survivors collectivly have 5 gens and nothing else to do?
4) I won´t comment on other forum users.
5) I play without DS and do fine. Your point is?
6) nevermind then
7) camping has been around for 5 years. Survivors got several ways to deal with camping. A good group can unhook with BT, body block and if everything fails the survivor usually has DS or a flashlight. Those tools are in fact so strong, that survivors started to weaponize them and use them outside of actual camping situations. A survivor who gets unhooked with BT, will DH into the killer to avoid that his savior gets downed. A freshly unhooked survivor in front of a opened exit gate is unstoppable, when he has DS. Killer gets punished here for not tunneling DS out earlier. Flashlights are a scourge of their own. We had the Howling Grounds event, where flashlights got "fixed" and turned into unavoidable torches. There wasn´t a single match where survivors wouldn´t bring the weaponized flashlights.
Another obligatory objective wouldn´t kill the game. It wouldn´t suddenly turn all killers into campers and it certainly wouldn´t ruin the survivors fun. All they have to do is give survivors a meaningful objective thats different from what we have now. Like, for example, gas cans that have to be refilled and used on gens. They could become a whole new item (like toolboxes). The gas cans wouldn´t be required for all gens, but for the strategic gens. So survivors would have to make the choice if they ignore those gens and only do the normal ones, but exposing themselves with less favorable positions. Or doing the gas can objective and finish the strategic gens first, which makes the lategame easier.
Boy I am happy you are not in charge of this game's balance. You really think the devs only care about the problems that killers face, and not that of survivors? Being camped is the most unfun thing you can experience in a video game, because you don't even get to play the game.
I have a strong feeling that if the devs ever added a second objective to this game, that would simply increase survivors objective time, without doing anything against camping and tunneling, killer queue times would sky rocket.
People are already complaining about camping and tunneling all the time. What do you think will happen when the chances for survivor teams of winning against such killers would become much more slim? I for sure would stop playing survivor, and I doubt I would be alone, knowing that as soon as a killer camps, I will have no fun whatsoever and there is still a good chance of that killer winning.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2461688#Comment_2461688
It is representative because, as you said, he was playing a m1 killer who didn't use his power. Traps can be disarmed, which renders the killers power useless. We have a lot of killers with "ammunition" or that require to break the chase in order to regain their power.
A survivor should not be able to run a killer for 4 minutes. At least not a killer with so many hours.
I saw the video and have honestly no idea what you are on about. Nothing of this is representative of this game's balance. I would be curious though how long you think a chase should last in a secenario like shown in that video for the game to be balanced?
He is not using his power in any way, just playing an M1 killer. With killers like Blight, Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, and so on, in this game, of course you shouldn't be able to down a survivor within a minute when not using your power at all. How ridiculously strong would killers otherwise be that have strong powers that aid them in chases?
Then there is of course the fact that these survivor players have probably just as much experience in this game as Otz does.
Not to mention that the survivors in that video generally use a lot of the map, at which point you would also always come along other survivors, that you can go for as well.
Then there's also the fact that this is freaking Cowshed. Every sane person agrees that map is survivor sided beyond imagination, but a map like that is not representative of this game's balance. We definitely still have too many maps that are this survivor sided, but the majority of maps aren't that bad anymore.
And to top it all off, almost everyone agrees that Trapper is not a viable killer either. So even if he used his power, it's only to be expected that he would lose the match.
If someone like Trapper was viable, especially on a map like this, that would imply that many other killers in this game were overpowered and that most maps were killer sided.
So nothing of this video is really representative of the game's balance, except that this game still has problematic maps. It only shows that we need better map updates, but the devs have proven to not be able to do so for whatever reason. I hope once the new matchmaking goes live, the devs will realise they need to update more of these maps to make them more balanced. It's sad that most of these maps have already been updated twice and still remain extremely survivor sided.
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I really think the one problem he has are the zombies. They are sadly just pretty bugged. if they'd function as intended, he'd have more map pressure, which is exactly what he needs.
His chase potential is good enough in my opinion.
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@Grimmy_Bluues said:
It's definitely annoying how fast gens go by, but at this point it's better to live with it. A LOT of perks and killers would need to be changed if they were to tamper with gen speeds.
If they actually did do something about it though, I like Scott Jund's idea of having to find a part for a gen to make it go the current speed, but without the part it'd go slower.
Couldn't agree more. That's exactly the issue here. The game already has so much content that is at least attempted to be balanced around the game the way it is now, giving survivors a second objective would make certain killers and perks overpowered.
Also, tunneling and camping would need some serious nerfs in the exact same patch in which a second objective is introduced. Or I am positive the killer queue times would go through the roof.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2461094#Comment_2461094
You mean that video where survivor streamers ran him between 2 and 4 minutes? Yep, looks balanced. Especially since all gens can be completed in less than 4 minutes.
Which video was that? And you do realise even an Otzdarva needs to be able to lose once and a while? If he'd win every game, the game would be seriously killer sided.
Also, which killer was he using, and on what map was he playing?
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I agree it's stupid, but it is true that getting a 4K by camping survivors is not very skillful at all. Obviously losing to that isn't all to skilfull either, but sometimes it's less about skill in that moment and more about the desperate attempt to have at least a bit of fun during that match as survivor.
Camping is beyond boring, obviously for the survivor being hooked but also the other survivors having nothing else to do than doing gens.
To be fair, killers that resort to camping are kind of nooby, but the problem here is that "noob" even is an insult in the minds of some people. Not being skillful in games is not something bad in the least.
Obviously if you have to camp because you aren't good enough as a killer, one can argue that you are a sore loser. But to be fair, everyone kind of wants to try everything in their arsenal to somehow still win a match. It only gets ridiculous when killers camp right from the get go.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
The game is poorly designed because survivors go for unsafe unhooks? I mean... I think it has some design issues. This isn't one of them.
It's not about unsafe hooks, it's about camping. There's a difference. Survivors have no other option than unsafe hooks if they want to try and free the survivor.
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@csandman1977 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2460209#Comment_2460209
You really cant blame the game. Every game gives you the option to stand still. Only difference is in this game the human players decide to throw themselves at the standing still killer.
There are differences. The main one being that in other mulitplayer games, a player standing still doesn't prevent one of the players from playing the game entirely. Not to mention the fact that the rest of the survivors don't have an opponent to go against during that time.
And it's usually not an effective strategy. In DBD it can be, even when survivors don't just throw themselves in front of the killer. Add in NOED and if you don't suck at the game, you'll get your first down early enough for the survivor to die on hook before all gens are repaired, which means you'll pretty much get a 2K for doing very little.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I would not say it is overrated. It is the second-strongest Exhaustion Perk, only behind Sprint Burst. I would not call this overrated.
However, I agree on overhated - Killer Players act like they lose games because of Dead Hard, but I am pretty sure they lose the games because of general worse performance than the Survivors, but blame Dead Hard for it. Let alone that most DHs I encounter are HORRIBLE. Like, people trying to DH without any Pallet nearby or anything, just to use it. This brings them like 1 second of Extra Chase (which would be the case in general, if the Distance-Part would be removed, because even if the Iframes would actually be working, you would not be able to do anything with Dead Hard...)
It really depends though. If survivors know how to use Dead Hard, and survivors are able to extend a chase multiple times only thanks to Dead Hard, than one can argue that Dead Hard at least played a big role during that match and why the survivor team won in the end. Dead Hard for distance often doesn't have counterplay.
I would argue it's map dependent though, and the more balanced maps would become in general, the less complaints there would be about Dead Hard. It depends on what loop it is used to gain distance for example. If you can make it to a safe loop or can extend a chase with safe loops around you, then Dead Hard had a lot of impact.
Sadly though, despite the many map reworks, many maps have still stayed the same balance wise, and there are still plenty of survivor sided maps. But nerfing Dead Hard so it doesn't gain you any distance would make that perk easily useless compared to the other exhaustion perks.
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@TacitusKilgore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2448260#Comment_2448260
This is why i tire of ranged killers. You get some crazy oppressive weapon you can chuck over loops, but you move at the speed of a crippled war vet. Whats the point of even doing well at loops when i can't even make it to gens half the time.
Well yeah, they shouldn't have buffed his chase potential, they should have buffed his slowdown or map pressure somehow.
They are doing it right with Pinhead. Despite him needing maybe some small buffs, at least to his chase potential, he isn't as oppressive in chases, even if he gets buffed. But he comes with a second objective for survivors to complete.
He also has 115% movement speed, so not a perfect comparison, but the point here is that it's favorable to have killers that have some form of slowdown or map pressure, and not be as oppressive in chases.
I hope they will add some form of second objective to other killers that are still struggling as well, would be nice.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2457233#Comment_2457233
Because the matchmaking matches them with rainbow ranks which they obviously are going to stomp.
Not always no. I've been able to win against a team of obvious red ranks, and so have others as well. Streamers like Otz are a great example of how this game isn't that unbalanced anymore.
It's certainly not balanced perfectly, and it's honestly crazy that maps like Cowshed even still exist, despite getting two major updates. But the game's balance has improved a lot as well. It's decent I would argue.
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@Tsulan said:
Honestly? With how the game is balanced right know?
Just play without gen slowdown perks. You´ll get 3 or 4 hooks by the time the gates are powered and might end up with 0 to 1 kills.
Things might change once the skill based matchmaking goes live. But until then you either conform yourself with getting almost no hooks or switch to survivor.
Then why do some killer players average more than only 3-4 hooks per game at rank 1? This game is certainly not balanced perfectly, but it's also not that bad anymore.
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Your posts perfectly illustrates the problem here. You can slug and tunnel to still win. Imagine how those strategies will be if survivors got more objective time. Adding any form of second objective will need so many other changes, including a nerf to tunneling, camping, and certain killers.
Also, it's all very map dependent. If you don't get a bad map, and are playing one of the strong killers, you still have a chance to win without slugging and tunneling like a mad man. Unless maybe you are going against some Death squad. But those are incredibly rare.
I'm still guessing we will get slowed down matches once the Mori reworks happen, as it sounded like they will add some more objective play to the game, but I might be completely wrong on that.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2457062#Comment_2457062
The debate here is how many hooks a non camping killer would get in comparison to a camping killer.
If it turns out that they get the same amount of "hooks", then... well...
What exactly is your point? That camping isn't broken? Or that camping is just as effective as playing normally, so killers should use that strategy?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451743#Comment_2451743
the last time i faced one of those teams in a public game was about 2 months ago and i still got an 8 hook 1k. you don't need to bring ruin/undying/tinkerer/bbq (or pop for extra fun) with stupidly good add-ons to public games, ever, let alone all the time.
it's even worse when they'll bring those builds in and say "that's what you get for being a swf" like??? im solo my friends list is public you can easily check??? and how dare i play the game with my friends, not every swf is the optimal group you think it is????
im so sick of seeing this build over and over, if you couldnt tell, and its always the same people and its always a blight.
You're complaining about killer mains complaining that people play in swf, while complaining about killer players using optimal builds. I don't quite get it. Yes you get to play the game the way you want, just like they get to play the game the way they want, with whatever perks. And they don't do it to just ruin survivors fun.
At rank 1, you can get the occasional, really good survivor team, especially when they are swf. A build like that is the best for something like that. You don't need it, but it increases your likeliness to win the match. But it definitely doesn't take away the possibility of the survivor team to win against the Blight using this optimal build.
I do think a good solution would be to give Tinkerer a cooldown, because I do agree that build is just too good, but nevertheles, it's definitely not a guaranteed win.
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I hope it will be Pinhead when he releases, but until then, probably Demogorgon, Blight and Hillbilly. And maybe Doctor, I actually really like going against him.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I can definitely blame a Blight player taking that build into a public game for not giving a ######### about the fun of the other side, and I better not hear a peep out of them about any form of genrushing, tbagging, clicking, or "toxic optimal 4man SWFs" becuase if you don't want one side to have fun, why should they want you to have any either.
I mean, that's probably why many use that build. In order to compete with the top level survivors using meta perks and doing gens optimally.
But it's true, people that play killers like Blight or Spirit with insane builds shouldn't then complain about how fast gens can be repaired or how op survivor perks are.
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This would just make him completely insufferable. He would be so oppressive in chases, people would just want to dc against him immediately.
What Trickster needs is a buff to his map pressure. Some form of second objective maybe like Pinhead has. One suggestion I have seen is to have survivors perform an action in order to remove the blades from them. That of course could cause problems during chases where survivors want to try and avoid blades for long enough so the laceration meter decreases, but perhaps they could have a seperate meter for fixing yourself up, before you can work on gens again for example. And in order to do so you have to perform an action, for every blade.
Something in that line would be great though. Some form of slowdown or map pressure. But no more buffs to his chase potential.
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@giga said:
Or you can not be a sweat lord that needs a 4k every match and just play...you know...for fun? The choice is yours buddy.
I really wouldn't call people sweatlords because they use certain builds.
This build can be pretty crazy, but at the same time survivors can have very strong builds too. When going against the top level survivors, this is the kind of build you will want, or perhaps those people that use this build wouldn't have fun going against the top level survivors that are trying their best to win the match as well.
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Haven't really had those issues yet, at least not often.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2449940#Comment_2449940
You can't denied that. Hours earlier i was playing solo and we got a Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer PH. The classic over used red rank build-in killer perks.
4 gens, 4 hooks and ruin still up. He took advantage of ruin, tinkerer bunch of times on different gens. Over 90% gens back to 0. Ruin cleansed, 4 man out, 6 hooks. :)
And that is the most recent one. That happens every day.
Running Undying and Ruin is not a free win. Not at all. But killers need some form of slowdown to compete at the highest level of play.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2449925#Comment_2449925
this game quite literally can not be competetive, due to exactly the point you just brought up: RNG.
it has way too much of an decisive factor on everything that happens in it for this game to ever be truly balanced - which is exactly why i think MMR is such a horrible idea btw (because there is no way MMR could ever take this incredible amount of RNG into account to work and rank an individuals skill properly).
RNG in this game absolutely doesnt stop with maps aswell - there are self unhook attempts, chests, spawn locations, loop setups, the Killer you go up against (technically speaking not RNG, but still nothing you have any controll over as Survivor so i count it - same with Bear Trap escapes and Jigsaw Boxes Keys btw), skillchecks, the bloodweb (for those of us who like to bring specific Add Ons / Items), etc.
there is no way this could ever be balanced peoperly and made competetive - especially not since BHVR has acknowledged the imbalances and said that whatever happens, they will keep this RNG aspect. So at best they will slightly reduce it at certain points, but it will still mostly be the deciding factor for your matches.
I mean, I do think skill plays quite a big role as well. And I do think that skill most of the times has more effect on which side wins than rng.
I do think there can still be mmr that works fine. It won't be perfect, but even with RNG, I am sure there still is possiblity to tell people's skill level by averaging out all their games.
And I definitely do like the RNG in this game, even if it is a bit much at times. I think it's important, especially when it comes to maps, so maps are never built the exact same.
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True, and I think this goes even more for maps as well, and their rng.
I don't think this game needs to be fully competitive anyways.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2448935#Comment_2448935
Pop, Eruption, Surge, Thrilling Tremors is my favourite build on Wraith and Legion.
I really like those ideas, it might needs some change in numbers, but that is hard to tell without testing. I would like to see more perks that reward killer for hooking multiple survivors.
Sounds like an interesting build, I might try it.
I'm just happy we are getting 3 new perks with the chapter that all serve as alternatives to slowdown perks we already have. Especially Hex: Plaything.
The ideas here are also interesting, though the third perk seems too good to me, and too furstrating for survivors. And the first perk, as already mentioned, could potentially be too good against a 3 gen strat, I can't say for sure though.
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@bibibib8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2448945#Comment_2448945
After the first hook my goal is to die. Imagine you as a killer you secure a 3 gen 1 survivor is dead and they do gen 18% faster forget kicking a gen the regression is not worth it. If 3 survivor are still in the game when 2 gen are remaining they can still win that easy its 1 bad chase and its game over and be sure to finish your chase asap because it wont take 80 sec to do a gen it will take 65 sec to do it more or less lets so you do a 30 sec chase plus the hook another 10 sec and you are 10 sec away of the closest gen you only need another 15 sec to finish the gen meanwhile the other survivor finiah his gen fo for the save and heal and both of them go to the gen and finish it while you get chase.
But you also always have one survivor less repairing gens, especially when a survivor is on the hook, at which point nobody is repairing gens for a short time. That's definitely more than an 18% increase in repair speed.
100% repair speed increase decreases the time it takes to repair a gen from 80 to 40 %. So losing a survivor is almost like having your team gain lose that 100% repair speed increase. With 3 survivors are left, only 2 survivors max will be working on gens, which is a 66% increase in gen repair speed, if they haven't suffered a repair speed debuff before.
Values could definitely be looked at, because of course it shouldn't be beneficial for a survivor team to have a survivor die, or survivors will just be left on the hook to die. It should just be less beneficial for the killer, and this idea could perhaps work.
I don't think it will ever happen because it sounds like they will try to address gen speed and hopefully tunneling and camping by adding new mechanics and objectives that are tied to Moris, and perhaps keys. We'll have to see how that turns out though, if it ever happens.
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I won't comment on all of these, but some of these seem way too overtuned. Thana for example is beyond what any perk should be. 48% slower repair progress would be way, way too much, and so freaking boring to go against.
Territorial Imperative on the other hand sounds like a perk against which even I would sometimes dc. You get hooked in the basement the first time, you won't escape. That sounds so terrible. If the killer is anywhere near the basement, it will guarantee him to get two survivors hooked in the basement. At that point the game is pretty much lost for survivors.
And Predator would just remove stealth almost completely.
There are definitely some nice ideas here as well, but in general I feel like you give too many of these perks too many effects at once. Some perks would probably just need some number buffs and that's it. Instead, I feel like some ideas here would be better suited for their own perks. Knockout and Nemesis bare examples of having too many effects.
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@bibibib8 said:
Hell yeah im getting my ass kill if i play in a swf asap so my friend can finish the game 18% faster and im going to be the toxic survivor who t bag and click at you and body block your killer ass with no mither. This is a really bad idea and i can already abuse this and im far from being a good survivor
But then your team is down one survivor. An 18% increase in repair speed wouldn't make up for that. Not to mention that one could still change the values.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
Yes, more gen regression perks.... 😴
As far as I know this game already has more than 4 slowodown perks, so people can already run a full slowdown build. At this point, any further regression or slowdown perk just allows killers to have more alternatives as slow down perks.
Which is nice because some form of slowdown perk is generally required for most killers.
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I doubt that they will overhaul indoor maps in massive ways, but I agree with the second suggestion. People have been asking for that for quite a while.
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I have a hard time seeing how a survivor could last 80 seconds long in a chase. Without the hindered effect, it might be solid. But it could also be a dangerous perk. I don't know, the thing with this idea is is that it will help you extend chases massively only if you are already doing well and running the killer for at least 80 seconds. Meanwhile if you are already struggling to last longh enough in a chase, the perk won't do anything for you.
So it's kind of just a perk that is beating down on killers that are already struggling. Although it probably wouldn't be the only perk.
But if a perk like this ever were to happen, please without the hindered effect. If anything, a different, less crippling downside. Reduced action speed for example.
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@Kyxlect said:
You don't need to apologize for playing the game bro. It's incredibly Survivor sided, they're spoiled rotten and what happens when you do that? They get super entitled. Playing Survivor is easy. Playing Killer is not and it's tremendously stressful. You do what YOU do as a Killer to Survive.
It's really not that bad anymore. At the highest level of play most killers still struggle, fair enough, but the game isn't that survivor sided anymore. Killers have seen many improvements over the years.
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Definitely not worse. He seems pretty damn oppressive in chases now, but he still has pretty much 0 map pressure.
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I personally still think it is fine. If a Pop can't be used because the last few seconds are wasted on being stunned by Blast Mine, than that just means Blast Mine has it's fair uses, which is always a good thing.
In general PGTW is still one of the best killer perks in the game, I'd much rather have weak perks buffed.
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@xenotimebong said:
I’m guessing it has something to do with latency and the hit validation change. Since the server now checks for and validates stuns on the survivor side, it’s probably granting more stuns since you were close enough to get hit with the pallet on their screen. I’m far from an expert though so this is just my assumption.
This is most likely the case. I feel a simple fix to this problem would be too slightly decrease the pallet stun hitbox, since that shouldn't cause killers to be able to hit through pallet stuns more, only help them avoid getting stunned a bit more.
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I do agree that the average new killer perk has been rather underwhelming, but it's not that much different with killer perks either. There is certainly no bias going on here.
This is the first chapter where all three new perks actually seem at least decently good out of the box. Though some of the last few new killer perks did recieve buffs as well, which was nice.
Still, there is no bias to such things, definitely not. And to be fair, Jill and Leon each had at least one decent perk as well, even if they aren't on the level of meta perks.