Zarathos
Zarathos
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@hillbillyclaudmain69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1797553#Comment_1797553
Billy didn't really get gutted, but I will admit he isn't as enjoyable to play as any more.
Just yesterday I had a billy game where I was getting some solid pressure going and as I was whimsically gliding across the map suddenly the sound of the saw going tssh and overheating turned my mood into 180 of anger and rage.
The survivor didnt do anything to outplay me no the saw just decided to overheat because I was using my power to navigate the map better. This is a frustration mechanic, no different then nurse cd on her blinks.
What I'm getting at is that I expect behaviour to add a reduced ms on freddys trap placement on top of nerfing half of his kit. Because behaviour dosent balance killers they make them more frustrating to play. If your lucky it means one janky awkward mechanic to play around. If your unlucky the get pulled out back told to think of the rabbits and shot.
This is the same team that has left legion in his current state with not a single buff since they nerfed him into the ground.
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@sudintlink said:
They should bring back his old power it was a lot cooler and different and made more sense to the character
Never again. I played a lot of old freddy it was terrible. I was mostly trying to handicap myself and I can tell you that dream transition is the worst mechanic in all of dbds history. I lost dozens of games to a person finishing a gen whilst dream transitioning and his prescence utterly neutered stealth based survivour builds (not that you needed to). Good riddance to old freddy.
If you want to tone him down snares should be left as is but a light nerf to the chains and increased cooldown to dream projection would be the most reasonable.
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Solid relatively easy fix to implement the gen ignition period. This ideas been put forward multiple times but why not just have a 30 second or 1 min gen start up period no progression can be done. Help trap killers set up opening more trap killer design space. Low mobility killers can no longer lose a gen at the start of the game.
Finally a side objective perhaps a door lever gen piece can be added that can be retrieved and used as an objectives for the end game that can be picked up from the start.
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Your on. This apongside courier dwight is gonna be my christmas build.
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I'm getting really sick of survivor as a role. I was holding out that the putsula petals was some indication of a more nuanced objective being added that might add some zest to the game but nah just hold M1 or hope your the lucky person who gets chased. Give me something, anything to add depth or skill to survivor? As for perks they feel like the team is at the bottom of the barrel. This game desperately needs some kind of survivor interaction that can vary the experience. Maybe add the ability to rebuild breakable walls as a one time use material. Transport a key gen part that can finish the last gen once installed.
Killer is about the only role of interest to me lately because for me I can get endless enjoyment from the deathslinger and huntress range play. Killers have come a long way from the monotonous dull gameplay of clown and pig which is nice. Balance isn't the issue so many games are busted 24/7 but still have mass following and enjoyment to be had. Just break up the monotonous gameplay loops flip some perk numbers around.
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Imagine having the face of your game be the ugly kid you stuff in the attic.
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@ethan99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1784708#Comment_1784708
Thanks, I usually stop chasing after a minute or I hear a nearby gen being worked on.
I prefer playing stealth killers but spine chill renders them useless :(
My main problem is I rarely do slug I always have the urge to hook them after I down them.
I actually don't want to become a red rank killer (too stressful), however I seem to face the same survivors as a red rank killer would. 😅
Embrace slugging. Its best to do when you have another target close by. Headset is mandatory listen out for audio clues they can be buggy but you will be suprised how decent hearing skills can help.
You need the right gen regression on the right killers ruin is not gonna be that great on clown or myers however its fantastic on high mobility killers. A small tip low mobility corrupt, high mpbility ruin. If you have hex undying that can make ruin even better.
Understand that certain killers are terrible when your getting experiance on killers. I highly advise sticking to high mobility killers since they will give you the most experiance. Billy, spirit, freddy immediatly comes to mind. Each killer has a lot of trap add ons that are just terrible pay attention you arent including garbage into your build. Some have potential but you will need specific perks and setups to utilise them.
Next rule never ever let your ego trap you in a bad chase. If someones teabagging after looping you for a bit nod and move on to a different target. Map knowledge is hard because its all experiance do not chase in certain zones you know are difficult. For example disturbed wards middle building is a bad time for pretty much every killer. If you name a killer I can start pointing you to optimum builds and advice for how to play since most killers have there own list of do's and don'ts
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Ruin could definetly see a decrese on regresion but it should have something passive so the perks isnt completely dead once the totems down. I really hate hex perk design. Cleansed its utterly useless no other pupose literal dead perk. Undying massively reduces risk which is imo not the problem. Give hex perks meaningful passives or a post cleanse effect that gives you some value. In ruins case regression effects and normal regression is imprpved by X%
Tinkerer is strong but I would never really see it as an issue its a solid strong perk.
That being said lets look at the other side since only a fool nerfs one sides perk options without also addressing the other sides problematic perks. These perks exist in the same ecosystem afterall. Ds and unbreakable in this case its ds again continuing to be the perk that is every devs balancing nightmare. The lose lose sotuations ds creates is horrendously frustrating.
If you are drawing killer aggro that is massive with ds so taking away a survivours ability to do gens and hold up ds is key. This perk needs to be disabled the minute a gen is touched by that player untill next rehooking. Is it a programming nightmare likely but ds continues to cause havoc and is in dire need of fixing so a player can't just push gens so freely.
For those who say eating the stun isnt that bad let me remind you this game is a time trial. Every stun you eat is another X seconds a survivour is pumping into a gen. Theres a reason extra health state like effects remain dominant as the place to be in dbd.
Tldr high rank dbd will be dominated by regression stall based killer layouts and survivour extra health states. Nerfing one side is and let me stress this is absurdly narrow minded. What I have is suggestions. If you have the time to comment and you want change suggested ideas. If your happy with the balance as is then state it.
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Personally I find him much more playable with his boot add-ons the turning without them is just horrible. Its kind of sad they took a classic well designed killer and pushed him into a poor state b tier killer. Not only that but his rework added nothing to the killer but a put a cap on the only exciting element of his kit. Then again who cares right? Billy been like this for a while and the community has voiced little to no criticism once the initial opinions were made. I really think they need to do something with the overheat that has a positive element. Because as of right now it as a mechanic its only there to punish you for using the only interesting and unique element the killer has.
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Personally I'd implement something much more complex but would encourage a more proactive dbd game that encourage spreading hooks out, punishes tunneling and rewards killers who can apply pressure fast and consistently.
Battered and Lively states.
Spending an extended period of time uninjured grants a survivor the active trait increased action speeds for all activities. Upon being injured there in the surviving state. A survivor cannot reach the active state whilst injured. Battered state is a condition where you action speed is reduced and is inflicted upon being hooked/downed (downed might be to strong). The trait wears off once healed to full or upon spending a extended period of time without being hit. Obviously it would be a big undertaking but I always find too many of these ideas people have for tunneling and camping fixes are too simple to work or are prone to abuse. Its a much more complex issue that requires a different approach to fix its core issues. IT would also help killers apply pressure that can slow down gen speeds if they play well.
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How do you think a range killer should play if standing in range of him making no effort to to lose los would still have counterplay to the shot. How do you still make that killer good. If the deathslinger drops a giant indicator he's going to shoot and also be 110 ms how is that going to be addressed? How are you going to address his lack of map pressure and limited range? Plenty of posts break down nerf pls but not a single one of them actually adds answers to potential buffs beyond straight nerfs to an already average killer. If you want to make a post about fixing him put solutions forward.
Low pressure but instant ads is a problem? How about a compromise of a wind up period with an audio cue where the survivor is exposed if they are hit by the gun. Maybe make his ms increase outside of chase so big maps don't horribly wreck him. Another huge thing fix his ads movement as part of the reason people choose instant ads is his ads movement is awful. Fix it so he moves in a less cumbersome manner whilst holding ads. You said you played him but how can you come in with nerfs if you still haven't grasp exactly his core issues are or examine the consequences of making him ads more when ads aim movement as is is abysmal.
On his current state I know where he's strong and where he's weak. I have played against average(which doesn't seem to exist in most dbd players minds), great and weak deathslinger's. I have extensive experience playing him and I can tell you that your issues being addressed in the current way your presenting them often results in straight nerfs that push killers down to legion tier. No one should forget these kind of posts pushed the kind of changes that horribly mangled legion and left him in an underwhelming state. Don't do it again killer confidence is already at a low with charlotte lets not add slinger to the list of reason's killers shouldn't bother.
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@CashelP14 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1774570#Comment_1774570
Well here's an example of what I'm talking about.
Imagine doing a gen behind a house. The garage in front of the house sometimes spawns a pallet and sometimes it doesn't. This is the sort of scenario I'm talking about.
I've got over 3k hours so I definitely know the areas where pallets are guaranteed to spawn lol
Shouldn't you scout out the region for the closest pallet. I don't get this hop on a gen don't double check the usual spawns mentality. You can spent 8k hours on a game and still play sub optimally. Playtime does not equal skilled player. Its a solid indicator but if you develop a poor play pattern because you dont get punished then you can get less focused on improving. Back in ye olde double pallet spawn days I would get 4ks with pre-reworked freddy vs 2 k hour survivor players. Simply because they would misplay panic or do things that wouldn't normally get punished.
Back to the point always scout out the location of at least locate one easily accessible pallet. Don't mindlessly push gens without a contingency unless the situation is desperate. Side note stop doing safe gens first you should do risky earlier gens on Haddonfield first when you know someone was in chase.
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@CashelP14 said:
This is why I also dislike haddonfield lol you don't know where the dead zones are until your there.
There are guarranted spawns you should be b lining to. If its a scenarip where these pallets are being expended by your team at a fast rate then the issue is likely elsewhere. Even then windows and fences function as absurd ways to get distance on this map. If your relying on pallets to protect you on haddonfield then your paying the map wrong.
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I think your hint here should be addressed in a much better manner. If they can't take the heat and have to hammer the leave match button to protect their ego. Then maybe they shouldn't be playing a multiplayer game. When I see mass dcing I don't think wow this opponent is busted, I think shame on them for ditching there teammates. How is it this community can look at these things and think getting better is the issue. The real issues is people need to learn to play on for the sake of the team and not let every nod and teabag be treated as some blow to your ego. This is a team game at its core, you can play for yourself but if you do note the chances of victory drops dramatically.
I think people like this need to be temp banned with penalties that multiply the more you dc. Now if someone is holding you hostage then fair report them log the evidence and send it along. But if they ever feel like their personal enjoyment means they can freely jump out of a game because its not going your way then frankly I'm disgusted. Why the hell are they acting like children and throwing a tantrum take the L move on salvage what you can from the experience.
Feel free to question a killers balance via mechanics level of play and interaction's I can 100% respect that. But never take someone's frustration as reasoning to take action. Logic is a much more valuable tool for balance then emotions. Release Freddy was nerfed for this exact reason. I don't like it its to strong counterplay came in and he was not just bad he was the worst killer in the game.
Edit. Encourage players to behave better. Some games implement a commendation system to credit players who make the effort to play on and do the best they can. This is worth looking into. Nerfing a killer based off of bad vibes is only going to antagonize the other side. At least use some valid reasoning for changes instead of just looking to satisfy their own "FUN".
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1.Legion behavior straight freddied him and nerfed him further even when he was already struggling. Here hoping one day they will rework him.
2.Clown his perks were nice but the killer was and still is incredibly underwhelming his bottles lack any nuances and the reward for getting good with him has low payoff. Atrocious low effort killer that needed way more nuances. Imo the iridescent instadown add on should have been base.
3.Pyramid Head I was disappointed how his power felt so different and contradictory to what I expected from pyramid head. I anticipated some new take on tombstone myers with a pyramid head twist but no. Fire some odd projectile attack that correct me if I'm wrong never appears in the franchise. The look don't get me wrong was excellent for what it is but hey what can you do.
Since I hate being negative all the time I do want to say killers that surprised me in terms of how fun they were to play from the killers perspective:
1.Blight the buggy collision worried me but I cant deny they shipped him in a fantastic state and his skill ceiling is exactly what I expect from premium dbd.
2.Deathslinger seemed like a worse huntress but the more I played the more I felt that his abilities had incredible depth. Also has a super satisfying pull in and smack loop.
3.Oni the man's sheer presence reek of a slugger champion and nothing more satisfying then whizzing around the map with heavy footsteps battering puny survivors and earth underneath his thicc club.
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So are we ever gonna hold the unhooker accountable or does the jerk quentin who unhooks me next to the killer with bt just for wglf stacks get away with it?
I genuinely dont get why people let the unhooker off with a botched save. He or she is gonna do it again and thatnks to ds they will be rewarded for it by having a survivour who can run to the closest gen and finish it.
If the kiler trys to stop him the best they can hope for is a slug. If they have unbreakable then your screwed. Please next time your thinking of posting a coment or discussion be CONSTRUCTIVE.
Consider what you would do in the difficult situation above if there is no answer then you have a serious problem.
Play killer. Commit the time to learning the role I can't count the number of times i saw a person complain about a problem and then when confronted with the other side perspective the response on what to do is some variation of git gud (I don't know too complicated for me) or take the L and move on to the next game.
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@Boss said:
Nothing irritates me about playing Survivor, nothing makes me ragequit.
But i swear i'm about to quit playing Survivor altogether, cause i'm just so bored of it now.
My 1 week of Survivor-only drained me, and it's only going downhill ever since.
Survivor in general needs a big, new thing added to the core gameplay if i want to enjoy Survivor again.
100% this. I want something nuanced for the role hell interacting with breakable wall's in some way would have been cool but nah lets just keep holding m1 on gens that's fun. The chase is the only thing that keeps me interested in survivor and honestly I might just drop playing with my mates entirely if its just gonna be the same tired chase loop mechanics. It doesn't help that every content creator is hammering that looping gameplay is the only thing that matters stick to that behavior. I don't care about winning often I'll leave the exit gates run a loop and have the killer do an endgame chase simply because of how boring it is. Maybe I'm being unfair maybe its too much to ask for a more nuanced survivors experience but I just don't get the survivor gameplay appeal anymore. How can you hammer so many hours into the same looping strats, the slightly faster gen repair time and not be sick of it.
What if we had way to complete optional objectives that might yield a late game advantage or provide unique items that gives a broken killer aura reading key with x charges. A firecracker, A pallet repair kit, medicine that provides a sprint burst on use. maybe finding a key and then opening one of these unique chests. Hell just new items would be nice. If your playing dbd just to win I would recommend channeling your energy into a more competitive game. Because dbd continues to prove its aimed at a more casual audience. This isn't bad it important to not neglect your fanbase's needs. A lot of competitive games end up straight gutting characters and end up with extremely linier gameplay dbd is definitely not there yet?
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Noed would be fine to me if there was no ms increase. The ms seriously messes with the expectation of how a loop is designed in a way that you catch up way faster then you should making it impossible to escape a noed killer in the late game. A straight bitter murmur style aura reading on top of an instadown at the end would be a much more suitable replacement. Yes I know other survivor perks need to be looked at the 59 second ds tunnel meme and 3 downed survivors is getting really old. But looking at noed I guarantee you it not the instadown that makes the perk so obnoxious but the massive speed boost the killer receives.
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I'm all ears is pretty solid on ranged killers
Enduring is very solid on a lot of m1 killers that have instadown potential due to the added pressure.
Bamboozle is the most flexible because it can massively help vs obnoxious busted tiles.
Brutal strength is too niche it doesn't do enough to make it fit in any build unless your trying to meme it up with an unstoppable build which even then might be overshadowed by other much better chase perks.
Furitive chase is a stealth perk with some glaring weaknesses a better choice would definitely be stbfl but a lot of killer can't make a lot of use out of it if they have an instadown or alternative down abilities that don't count as normal hits.
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Cheryl, but aside from licensed characters it's probably felix. Speed is nothing in the element of escaping an eldritch horrors labyrinth. Felix's innate knowledge of architecture gives him the best chance of finding the escape route.
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I don't get why people look at these challenges and decide to go full auto on killing everyone asap. Especially when your ahead. I literally just had a game where I could have won the game twice via slugging but decided to let the survivors unhook. Still won but it was way more fun looking and profitable to draw out the game. There's no point in ending the game then and there draw it out give them time to collect themselves. If you got your lead fairly easily strong chance there not coming back from the snowball you got going.
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Old meme noeds not home meme intensifies.
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I keep saying this nerf swf put an action reduction speed depending on number of teamed players and buff solos. Stop nerfing/balancing solo and swf in the same metrics the gap in efficiency is unbelieveably obscene between solos and swf.
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A. Slugging has always been the way a killer succeds in dbd 4 hands on gens from the get go and general teamwide pressure is to huge for your clowns and ghostfaces to down and hook immediatly.
B. Decisive and its popularity has pushed mid rank killers into slugging as eating ds is backbreaking. Tally up the number of games a killer ate ds early on and won and you'll see the damage an extra health stage and reset chase can do to a game of dbd. Don't eat ds unless your extremely far ahead.
C. Peope will always want to try there best. Whats the point in playing a game if your not feeling like putting your best foot forward.
D. A lot of your issues is meta relavent. Dbd unfortunatly does not shake up or change the meta at all chosing to keep the strong perks as is. A lpt of perks like noed and ds took ages to change. In ds case it had one failed rework that left it in a broken state for an even prolonged period of time.
E. Stop playing a game that annoys you. Metas are inevitable and even midrank players play to win. Take a break from the game and comeback when your less frustrated. I did that and it helped me get a clear perspective on not what I want from dbd but what I know I can get from it as a game.
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Honestly i hate indoor maps because its impossible to find a chase or track gen progress if survivours choose to take full advantage of that lack of distance viewpoint.
There are pros totems are safer some confusion in gen placement buys time. Stealth killers can get much closer. However many of these advantages fall apart when you consider the following.
A. Most stealth killers perform poorly against excellent teams as they lack mobility to properly pressure the map.
B. Range killers will often have issues making use of there range and be disadvantaged with reduced movement speed for essentially no advantage.
C. Lack of gen progression knowledge. Often you wont have a clue what gen progression is at until your right next to a gen which really hurts pop and gen slowdown builds which are often used to help low map pressure killers.
Perks can fix some of these problems but since your unsure what map your heading into if you plan on running a cool build you can get punished by a lot of indoor maps.
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@Deadboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1753566#Comment_1753566
Good thing this was never intended by design to be an esports game nor is it. People will surely ruin the game as we continue moving in that direction though like most esports games.
Unfortunately gaming culture has had a tendency to get more and more competitive as time goes on. I don't like dbd being treated as anything but casual fun. Yet at the same time I know a lot of people will want to improve and make use of all there resources so its inevitable we see dbd strive to address peoples complaints. Thus seeking a more balanced competitve experiancre.
Tournament organisers have a huge issue where a lot of games are decided by the maps changing structures so a jungle gym into shack might spawn in one game but not the next. Meaning if your a team who got the crap layout it feels awful to lose just because your map rng was crap.
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Technically speaking we have this with freddys map. I havent double checked the spawns but I assume the number below indcates what pallets are in play.
@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1753465#Comment_1753465
They mean this isn’t Call of Duty. This isn’t the kind of game where it’s supposed to be your map knowledge that helps you succeed. It’s supposed to be your ability to improvise, adapt, and utilise the “cards that are dealt to you”
This concept works in theory but since scouting out a location in dbd uses a lot of time. Chases can occur in zones you have ot seen so your decissions are now based off of coin flips which is the opposite of skill. You can make a read on how someones playing you can't anticipate what pallets are in play without having been in that location.
Also for the flak cod series gets dbd as a game has no business being considered more skill intensive. The more unknown variables you have the less skill intensive and competitive your game is. (activisions its parent company is indeed morally bankrupt but thats a different discussion).
Most esport games have little to no rng. If it does have rng its odds are clear and a pallet being spawned randomly can never justify a skill intensive argumemt.
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60 seconds is a long time to be delaying a rehook. If your unsure of ds power look up twitch and see the number of survivor streamers running it. The perk is absurdly good.
You obviously run it with unbreakable since they can't pick you up and if they do ds kick in as long as one of those perks is returning value you have a huge advantage. These perks wins games. A perk also isn't terrible if you don't get to use it. All perks have there purpose if a killer is playing around a perk its likely very strong.
That being said its probably the most busted combo a survivor has at there disposal. You know like how pop was so oppressive they had to cut the times its available so you couldn't take advantage of double pop.
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1743219#Comment_1743219
I disagree. Monitor is meant to make a first hit easier, yes, but not to make the killer stealthy. For that there are other perks actually granting Undetectable, with their own restrictions (and rightfully so). Let me phrase is this way: If a combination of a killer and perk makes the killer pratically stealthy the whole time (out of a chase) without any powers used or restrictions, there's something wrong with it. GF, Pig, Wraith all have Stealth as part of their power, they have to activate it to get the effect and have limitations in using it. DS + Monitor just works. Sure it does not remove the TR, but since he has ranged attack he can get near enough without the survs hearing it.
The core issue with DS + Monitor is not the perk, but DS totally screwed TR music. Bc it is so hard to hear, it's not so much 24 meters, but more like 16 meters. Monitor on top it's down to 8 meters, or less than 2 seconds to react. And thats only if he does not try to spear you.
The list of mentioned killers consistently under perform against the creme de la creme survivours. With small success here and there should blatant mistake be made. Deathslingers stealth elements is powerful because of a large list of restrictions put on his kit.
Gun range is abyssmal, his movement speed is reduced and his capacity on his magazine is a measly one shot. There was a lot of his power budget spent on giving him a low tr that isn't even worth it.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1743294#Comment_1743294
The vast majority of FPS don't have the crazy large/inaccurate hitboxes that DBD has. The devs have even commented themselves that DBD wasnt designed for ranged killers and the hitboxes reflect that. Heck, look at Huntress' hatchet hitbox. I wager a fair number of Huntress players coast by purely on the inconsistency between the hatchet size and actual hitbox. Not even including latency muddying the hit detection further.
I never got that argument since hit detection goes way beyond just its ranged elements. Hits through pallets inconsistent animation ranges. Sure it has improved but for every nonesense huntress hit there are just as many demo gorgon lunge hits or freddy strikes, vault hits that shouldnt connect.
Understanding the actual hitbox on characters is important since as we all know character models do not share the same look but there hitboxes are all the same. Certain killers ranges goes beyond the animated range demonstrated. Hit register is not as snappy as other games and that down to the games humble foundations.
Even grabs are hilariously inconsistent sometimes straight locking a player into a permanent grab lock if the bug arises. No I don't buy the range hits are aggregious because the game was not built for it. I'd argue its foundations in terms of how hits register and are animated in general leaves a lot to be desired.
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Hate I subsist of the hate the salt feeds my ego and fill me with the pleasure of having performed so well that a person goes out of there way to complain and moan.
If you think dadslinger has no counterplay you need to pick up an fps and get use to movemet and cover mechanics this is the core of dadslingers weakness. Basic looping dosent work and understanding what loops work and what dont is paramount to survival.
The fact he get more hate then spirit or hag is baffling to me. Then again being outplayed and crushed by an opppnent who can predict your movement line up there shots correctly. Maybe it should come as no suprise.
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Freddy can win the attrtion game and while its annoying to see gens progress at a slow speed hag and spirit annoy me way more since hag and spirit mechanics straight up ignore every single defense at survivours disposal bar maybe flashlighting hag traps.
I dont think they need to see changes but it would be nice if survivours had more nuanced tricks beyond just the looping elements as currently its nearly impossible to shake a good killer. With freddy you can always loop and get solid chases going he might outlast you but at the very least your input and time saved helped you make some progress.
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Pity the indicator is easy to distinguish so it never works bar the odd time the killer doesn't recognize it. I much rather run stake out instead if I wanted something for softer tr pickups.
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If someone manages to 4 man slug your team its really on the other players to play into it. Literally one tap and the slugs can be up and running likely with there exhaustion ability off cd. Some killers are built to do this think oni, myers any killer who gain a breif period of fast downing potential. Even then the perks out there built to counter it are insanely powerful think unbreakable, soulguard its nuts. Slugging might not be fun but its essential for snowballing pressure since fast chases and hooking on one down is often just not enough to beat the creme de la creme survivor players. We all tend to the whole casual survivors is the norm very few are competitive but if your in red ranks early in the season its likely there gonna be playing more competitively.
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Lery's is imo the best in terms of aesthetic design. Lot of its ambient sounds and damaged/degraded property gives the realm a lot of character. Take for example elements like the flashing signs static tv's with a theatre center piece. Its one of the reason's I picked up the game. Watching a youtuber play a game on that map at the time sold me on dbd's aesthetic.
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@KingFrost said:
My problem with Deathslinger is that he has a very small terror radius, especially if you pair it with Monitor + Abuse. Which means a LOT of Deathslingers just camp.
I highly recomend spine chill. So aside from the fact that it gets around cheeky M&A builds myers hag etc. Spine chill can alert you to stealth tinkerer killers and aware you if the spirit whilst phased is still heading your direction. Yea its crappy to name a perk as a counter but I do think spine chill is under utilized.
If the slingers range wasn't so bad and his capacity of one shot wasn't so awful I'd agree with his tr being increased but he has so many problems I wish when they get around to looking at him its not just the legion, pig treatment where they straight nerf his ass to unplayability.
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@Scrublo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1652286#Comment_1652286
Popular opinion, you are making excuses for being a bad killer
At least I have an opinion your words are just a statement. Counterpoint my statement explain how I am wrong. By your logic and reasoning monto, zubat, scott and basically every killer player is low skilled. They all have tunneled and are thus are low skilled. See how flawed your point is it lacks any reasoning. I have yet to see a person actually address these points. Which says to me these attitudes are entitled.
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Unpopular opinion tunneling is a crap excuse for bad teamwork. How about punishing the killer slam them gens and if the killer sees you running to the hook and you hide behind your unhooked friend its not my job to make sure your teammates step up and act like actual teammates. This phrase is so often said it reached a point where its been so badly undermined no one takes it seriously. The killer dosen't owe you an opportunity it's not in his interest to play nice. Instead go after captain immersion for ditching you and leaving you to fend for yourself.
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Feedback the 4 injured survivour scenario is unlikely and usually by then your already winning hard as killer. The better decision would be to change the increments so a single injured survivor yields a 9% increased action speed which would increase to 14% with two injured, 18% with 3 injured and 20% with 4 injured. Especially considering people's ability to heal through it is further enhanced now.
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I have 45 pink moris and 45 iridescent heads. There are plenty with a similar stockpile. No mori's need to be addressed directly. An even easier fix. Mori's are only available on death hook.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1651516#Comment_1651516
He is a ranged killer vaults are a guarenteed hit. What exactly is a "well timed" vault. A place where the killer has to vault is called an infinite. That is ynless it's a height but not every map has though. I'm also quiet sure any average slinger will wait for the animation lock to shoot a survivor.
Not every map has debris just scattered around. If it does it's probably bad rng because the single debris is pallet less. Gen rushing is general not chase counter. Chasing are the most fun thing in the game. You shouldnt have to get 5 gens in 2 minutes to beat a killer.
Hes quiet fun to play as. He's worse than nurse yet is so boring to verse. His shock horror is good enough he doesnt even need to do anything to zone just be there. What does that tell you?
So were ignoring the immediate lack of mobility 110% ms killer, very limiting range of a mere 18 meters, pretending there are a low amount of maps with debris and cover (how can you come to such a silly conclusion?). As for a well timed vault its taking a vault earlier before the slinger has direct los thus increasing distance between you and him a common mistake is only vaulting when the killer is breathing behind you but just out of lunge range. There are a load of zones take the back of dead dawg saloon where you need to vault through to continue the chase, crotus prenn asylums window loops in the main structure. Again the shock horror I pointed out is that he see's a low play rate Despite his suggested low counterplay.
Almost like as if there is some strange phenomena keeping such "a powerful top tier killer" from being played (sarcasm). I tend to not buy the fun crap. I know friends who love playing against myers and friends who love playing against huntresses, I have friends who love playing against slinger but hate huntress. I just don't buy that a killer can be no fun to every survivor out there if there are survivors who I personally know enjoys the challenge he brings to the chase. Personally I adore the excitement of hammering dead hard before the shot connects making a prediction at a point I know the slinger has to shoot or running through the trees with that harpoon always threatening to drag me in. If denying los isn't fun to you then he's not for you.
You don't get to decide what's fun and what's not. Wanting more counterplay would be great but again no suggestions on what to compensate him with because it's only your enjoyment you care about not the slingers. I have suggestions above with buffs and nerfs to give some of you people options on how to correct his issues but your so obsessed with hammering this unfun rhetoric and expect to be taken seriously. It sounds to me like a core component of your survivor playstyle is keeping the killer close on you so you can get stun's and always leave the killer just out of range of a lunge hit in which case you are handling slinger badly.
Always maintain distance. Use vaults earlier in a loop and do not wait for the killer to be on top of you to start dropping pallets. Never let a slinger close that distance. Use routes that create large degress of distance and on occasion double back when the slinger is taking a shorter route towards you that leaves some room to sneak back the way you came.(this is best done when the killer has obviously lost los on you.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1645956#Comment_1645956
Yes zoning does not equal lose lose however it is not a 50/50 it's more like a 75/25. If you dodge you lose distance and he catches sup and if you run he shoots you. Saying it like that you are technically losing either way. Its objectively unfair.
I dont care if hes super fun to play as like the devs you are forgetting about the survivor side. Is that good that hes unfun as hell to play against? I can say the same thing when they removed vacuum pallets. "Its not fair becuase I learned how to loop extremely good and take advantage of the vacuum."
It's not very rewarding to guess correctly and maybe extend your chase by 5 seconds against a slinger. Yeah he has a high skill cap but that doesnt excuse his unfair nature. You wre proving my point as a slinger main your opinion is skewed. Hes barely played? I see a good amount of slingers that's a region thing.
I do look at things objectively and objectively slinger has a terribly designed power.
Except the distance you get over a slinger via a well timed vault puts him much further behind then your average 115% ms killer. This distance can scale even greater if that vault is in a spot that the killer has to vault through to catch up. If you hold w traveling behind debris then slinger gets horribly wrecked. Not to mention if your pushing a gen across the map there is virtually nothing he can do to stop you until he gets in range which is assuming there isn't a wall or obstruction blocking his shot as your doing a gen. Slinger is easily the most overrated killer in DBD I remember nurses who had a higher skill level be played more often then this slowpoke. There's a reason no one plays this killer and it ain't skill level its because he feels awful to play and shock horror is actually a mid tier killer with a gaping weakness.
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Has anyone actually held ads with slinger. I did it's god awful. The aiming is clunky as hell basic zig zaging massively screws with your ability to correct. I play a large swath of fps games your halo's, left 4 dead's, valorant etc and never have I seen such a miserable ads movement. These posts don't even want balance. Just a nerfed slinger who is already garbage by just spreading out and holding w. What's he gonna do use his miserable 18 meter range to pull you in. Hell the example you gave should be a death sentence they positioned poorly didn't put any debris in the way or block los so the slinger would have less time to adjust the quickscope shot. I have played against survivors who know how to play against slinger. Who recognizes bad loops to avoid and will give little to no vision on there position so I cant get a clear shot.
You would rather leave it to behavior to fix the killer then put an idea forward on how to make him balanced. Make his ads have a charged exposed shot which increases in range the longer he's adsed. Adjust ads movement so its smoother and less clunky. Make his gun require a minimum of adsing for 1 or 0.5 seconds. If you think these ideas are to strong play him familiarize yourself with him and see where all his problems are because I 100% guarantee slinger is utter trash vs competent survivors who know how to push gen's. I really dislike how someone can bash a style of play or killer without at least exposing themselves to it. His counterplay shouldn't be rudimentary.
But it's ok behavior will fix this killer and make him both fun to play and play against. Looks at legion, freddy's long troubled history and pigs completely unnecessary trap change. No they need actual direction on these changes and if you want to contribute play the god damn killer and offer some idea for changes.
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List of exposed perks:
Make your choice
Noed
Devour Hope
Rancor
Dragon's grip
List of Kill perks:
Rancor
Devour hope
This challenge is troublesome because lets be real dh isn't going to go off. You might get a few exposed hits but actual kills I recommend taking a mori in. Make sure to get 5 hooks of course dont ebony mori everyone and avoid moriing immediately. Survivor players may just end up giving up if you early mori.
Maps I recomend for totem spawns for this challenge
Midwich
Lery's
Game
yamoka estate
My recomended build
Perks: Devour hope, Noed, Rancor, Corrupt intervention
Killer recommendations: what's comfortable, spirit, Deathslinger, Myers, Wraith, Demogorgon (note Make your choice is very good on demo for this challenge)
Offerings: Mori or A map offering that obscures your totem better.
This is a lengthy post but the goal is to cover all options and approached to tackling this challenge. Happy hunting!
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1644892#Comment_1644892
You shouldn’t be comparing pyramids attack to huntresses though. You wanna know why? Pyramid head has a smaller terrors radius, has another whole ability and is 115% movement speed. Could u imagine if his power was as strong as huntress but he kept these additional benefits which huntres doesn’t have? Just because a killer is missing a few things doesn’t automatically mean they are bad or worse than another killer. Why don’t you look at some of the things his power alone has over huntress: Ability to shoot through walls, ability to move faster than survivors when charging it and a slightly larger collision box.
You need to hit your target for your ability to see use. A range limit is usually the trade off for ph. Tr trade is relatively negligible considering a 32 meter tr and a 48 tr means no difference since the heads up of 32 meters is more then enough time to set up your looping route. Shooting through walls suffer from a range disadvantage with add on's desperately required to go for midrange shots. His punishment attack cannot travel on surfaces like stairs unless it has a straight path through the ground or its a straight path. His wider collision mean's nothing if the warning of the impending attack is blatantly telegraphed on the ground. Go into a kyf with a good survivor player and test a only punishment PH see how easy it is to land the hit because the ownes is heavily on the survivor dodge you have no input on improving its speed via charging the attack. When you compare ph to huntress he inferior in nearly every way the only thing you got going for you is the ability to potentially ignore ds and 115% ms which isn't good enough.
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@Brhoom said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1644621#Comment_1644621
From the first day I played this game all I see is nerf Pig memes.
What exactly was nerfed with her?
genuinely asking here.
Pig despite being in a weak state her dash attack being easily counterable had her traps trigger the countdown in the endgame if it was placed at zero gens left. Now a gen needs to be completed while the trap is already placed. This coincided with the end game update. There was zero compensation no buffs for the change and she already was a low tier killer.
To this day the blatant weakness of a survivor holding w and leaving the loop hasn't been corrected. The rng of her power is lacking in actual killer input which is frustrating for both sides. Pigs is a meme one with a rather wholesome boop the snoot but nonetheless a meme.
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The issue with current ph ranged attack is the wind up on the attack before it hits. Its extremely easy to evade. They need to up how fast the attacl fires off it already has extremly awkward movement so correcting the attack left or right is limited.
Its kinda inescapable to point out how pyramid head despite a lower range is just an inferior huntress since currently has now way to speed up the punishment attack animation.
I'd say ph is doomed to be a pubstomper killer. Good for styling on weaker survivor players. You can argue its skillful but that dosent quite add up if theres no way to get the attack to connect vs competent survivors.
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I do agree that ruin and undying is monstrously strong when survivor and killer players are of equal skill level. Much like existing survivor builds it locks one side into playing specifically around it. People say braindead because undermining your opponent is a trick they try to play on themselves to make them feel better about losing to a tactic they claim they have no answers or options to deal with (sometimes true but there always room for improvement on the player's side). Honestly tinkerer has always been underrated as before undying I was using it on low gen pressure killers to try and keep gens close together so I would have to engage in little map traversal.
The ecosystem of perks and builds warrant a killer build of this power level imo. Its comparison opponent build ds and unbreakable are imo of equal power level. Definitely one of the best killer perks in the game I suspect potential nerf's because double standards. If you disagree with my statement break down how the comparison's differ between ruin/undying vs unbreakable/ds and ask is it locking the opponent into one avenue of play if so then you see the issues both sides are experiencing.
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Let me explain exactly why old freddy was garbage and why new freddy works.
A. Being harmless outside of dream realm leave freddy prone to survivor's pushing a gen until they actually have to move leading to freddy having extremely poor gen pressure. Your suggestion is to reimplement this idea even though it was a majotr reason behind why he was an f tier killer. Are you insane?
B. Trap setting killer have always faired extremely poorly because time is a huge resource in dbd and asking a killer to sit down and plant traps is a big ask. Killers like the hag work because her traps are often fast to place and are extremely easy to track and trigger. Creating immense hook pressure your idea for a spawn point is a waste of time and will just result in a crap version of the hag.
I was there when old freddy was around I took up a dumb challenge by a friend to do get to rank 1 with freddy pre ds rework. It was awful. You will never know the frustration of sitting there staring at a survivor push the last gen utterly helpless because I need to wait for them to transition to hit land. There no exposed no proper payoff for this crippling weakness its just terrible. You can teleport all you like but that doesn't do crap when you cant hit a survivor despite being right next to him.
Of this discussion @Seiko300 puts it best passive abilities aren't fun and freddy's crippling weakness of creating invincibility periods is heavily exploitable. Read below his piece.
@Seiko300 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1638347#Comment_1638347
I'll have to disagree and say that Freddy was put under the most intense scrutiny during his rework, they changed him from the ground up on a fundamental level that completely altered how his power function in almost every way yet still remained true to his character. What made him a poor killer was very closely examined and explored, his original incarnation was flawed at the most basic level though the concept on paper may have been interesting.
There's a reason that Freddy was reworked to such a scale, the community asked for the change and the developers delivered. The mere notion of re-implementing any aspects of old Freddy into modern Freddy let alone the idea of "taking old Freddy, fix his bugs, and slap on the live version of Dream projection" as if that will make him any better is completely and utterly asinine in every sense of the word.
And I can't believe I have to say this because it's so obvious: Not being able to hit survivors is crippling. I don't mean to be rude, but you have to be out of your mind to seriously believe that this and most of everything else that you're suggesting is anywhere near a good idea let alone superior in-design to modern Freddy.
Most importantly: The Code from Old Freddy does not exist. When the rework went through, this code was deleted, we know this because some few old-version Freddy sympathizers asked the devs if they could keep both the new and old version of Freddy and the short answer was no. One of the cited reasons was along these lines if I'm not mistaken, so long story short unless the devs suddenly have a change of heart and decided to re-animate, re-code, and re-program old Freddy back into new Freddy there is no hope for you or anybody else to ever see old Freddy ever again. Thank God and good riddance.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1638407#Comment_1638407
She is arguably the most poorly designed killer out of the entire current roster. You want an example of bad design @Bard ? Look no further than the Plague.
Don't even get me started, I've written the equivalent of an entire paper on the Plague before, but I'll boil it down for you now to a simple, universal, and well-understood concept that has been repeatedly proven throughout Dead By Daylight's history: Passive is not fun.
Ironically enough, this standard was actually established from the Freddy Rework, Killers had been released before Freddy who had passive powers or passive aspects to their powers, but Freddy's original incarnation pushed this idea to its limit and breaking point forcing a change from the devs because of how terrible it was. Both in regards to it not being fun for killer "Oh man, I get to stand here for 6 seconds and wait until a survivor falls asleep! (Is this what it feels like to be skillful?)" or survivor "Great, I'm asleep and now this Generator is going to take me 10 years to finish, here's hoping a skillcheck pops up soon..." and how poor the ability was from a viability standpoint. With no mobility, no chase potential (being purely an M1 killer), and really nothing of significance or consequence in his kit except for massive slowdown (not interesting) and universal aura reading (not skillful) old Freddy was terrible all around.
The devs since the Freddy rework have followed up on this idea changing some of the most prevalent passive aspects of the game at the time. This includes runner-up for most passive ability: The Doctor, who was also reworked, and the then infamous but-now-a-thing-of-the-past Hex: Ruin rework. More examples can be found but these are some of the most well known, yet despite this there are still killers that exist in today's modern version of the game that are very obviously at fault of passive abilities.
Introducing The Plague (and the Pig!)
Coming in at third place behind the Doctor and Freddy the Plague undoubtedly has a power that is nearly completely passive (and I'll try to wrap this up quickly to stop myself from ranting, I've already written more than I intended to). The problem with her power is it puts the survivor in an un-winnable situation (I use this term loosely, not to describe the match overall but the situation within that match specifically), presenting the survivor with the illusion of a choice but in reality neither option available to them is an appealing one and neither one truly benefits them.
Regardless of the choice which I'll get to in a moment, there is absolutely no counter-play provided to the survivor to avoid her ability. Getting the tiniest bit of Vile Purge on a Survivor immediately means they're sick, there is absolutely nothing they can do to stop the progression of the illness. Realistically speaking the Plague doesn't have to continue chasing that survivor, she doesn't even need to infect them completely, getting the tiniest bit on them means the "timer" has started and eventually at some point during the match they will become broken and injured. No perk, no item, no strat, can stop this from happening, and it's not like this is difficult for the Plague to do, of all the ranged killers she is by far the easiest to control in that she acts like a hose and you can literally spray and pray flicking your mouse from left to right across the entire screen and you'll probably hit somebody.
After that you're broken, and you're presented with that choice I was talking about earlier- either you submit and cleanse yourself with one of the many the Pools of Devotion scattered across the map and give the Plague access to the singlehandedly most aggressive and powerful damaging ability out of the entire killer roster, or you don't cleanse and you remain broken. For the entirety of the match, permanently injured.
At the most basic level this is simply and objectively not fun, for either role. A survivor is placed in an un-winnable situation where neither choice he/she makes really matters, both of them are bad for them and good for the killer, but the killer, the Plague, at the same time is just an M1 killer. After she gets someone fully infected what does she do? She runs the tiles normally as an M1 killer, and like any M1 killer she can be looped to hell and back with zero tools at her disposal to deal with that. Relying purely on the her own skill to run tiles, or as others more pessimistically put it: for the survivor to make a mistake.
I say zero, because we all know the choice most survivors make. Most survivors, unless they are inexperienced or really just don't care and are willing to throw the match, won't cleanse. Which means the Plague is stuck with her one dumb passive ability and distinctly lacking the one fun aspect of her power the Corrupt Purge which is her only redeeming quality- it is completely up to the survivors whether or not she gets access to her power. In other words, survivors are passively afflicted with illness, just so that the Plague can passively (potentially, it's not even a guarantee) get her corrupt purge. She isn't necessarily doing anything (much less anything particularly skillful) to get her corrupt purge, again, it doesn't matter if she gets them sick immediately or if the illness passively breaks that survivor, either way they will eventually become broken and either way they will eventually be confronted with the same un-winnable choice: to cleanse, or not to cleanse. That is the question.
This is why the Plague is my personally most despised and hated killer- both to play as and against. THAT is what bad design looks like.
And really quick I'll force myself to contain this last bit to a paragraph because I did end up ranting: The Pig suffers from the exact same problem The Plague does now and that the Doctor and Freddy did before them, but only to a lesser degree, not as annoying or in your face. Her Reverse Bear Traps are completely passive, she puts one on the head of the survivor and that's it- from then on she has nothing to do with whether or not the survivor lives or dies by the bear trap. She has no control over when it activates, nor does she have any control over how long it stays on their heads, or anything else. The killer is not involved in that process at all, and that is the problem with passive abilities: the fun of Dead By Daylight comes in large part FROM the killer interacting with the survivor. This is a core fundamental truth of Dead By Daylight and its gameplay.
And it's also the reason why Old Freddy sucked, and why he'll never come back in any way, shape, form, or fashion. @Bard
You'd be deluded to think otherwise.
Thank you for coming to class today, I hope you took notes because there'll be a test next week on the content we covered here this week.
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Better question which is easier to fix hook placement on maps which involve going over all the maps to ensure there aren't issues or a single stun on a perk vs all the killers. My bet will be the stun since its likely easier to fix.