Xernoton
Xernoton
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You do not juke a good Nurse for a few minutes. A good Nurse will end her chases in 30 seconds at the very max. There is not much room for juking.
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Lose and play the next game. There isn't much else you can do in this situation.
Although I must say, that the matchmaking here seems to work flawlessly again. How does he manage to get 2 hooks at 5 gens?
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Huh? Why? As far as I am concerned, the basement is almost as deadly as it used to be.
The only thing I would change is to disable it when Bubba hooks you in the basement. He's just playing lore accurate. Get over yourself. 😜
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Oni, Billy, Nemesis, Huntress, Bubba, Wesker and Pyramid Head come to mind. Even Doctor (although that might be more controversial).
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635372#Comment_3635372
Yeah I know it could seem like that, unless you read the very first part of the post I made which is the meaning I use for that phrase in this context. if you got a better word that fits precisely the player Im trying to describe as well as what they are basicly doing the same thing as, aka face campers but ranged them idd love to hear it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635717#Comment_3635717
That part about the killer not moving at all wouldn't work. It would only serve as a minor inconvenience but when someone is determined to camp, then having to walk 2 steps back and forth isn't going to stop them. Forcing them to walk larger distances could have the intended effect.
Is this part unclear in my post? I thought I said moving far, which would be more than 2m or 4 or like 8m.
I think killers need more of a reason to actually leave the hook. Same as for tunneling. As it is, both tunneling and camping become the go-to strategies in many cases. Partly because they are pretty easy to execute and quite effective at that. But also because killers have no reason at all to play normally. There is no base game mechanic to push them towards a more fun play style. Quite the opposite actually. Because many issues killers face can be worked around with tunneling and camping.
I think this view is too idyllic, Face Camping as we are already punishing is usually made from 1. lack of skill, 2. a desperate strategy, 3 someone who has a stick up somewhere regarding that specific survivors. Any secondary "incentive to leave hook" would have very little effect where it would actually mean anything.
I much rather want bHVR to build a ground floor of mechanics against such behaviours that stabilizes the experience for both sides, and then we can have idyllic nice rewards such as more blood points from hooking a new Survivor instead or stuff like that afterwards. Just know im not against incentive changes like, they are smart, its just I want systems in place that are reliable first.
Is this part unclear in my post? I thought I said moving far, which would be more than 2m or 4 or like 8m.
It seems I misunderstood that part.
However, this would only lead to players walking back and forth. I doubt it would be much help. An inconvience surely. But not enough to actually get someone to stop proxy camping.
I think this view is too idyllic, Face Camping as we are already punishing is usually made from 1. lack of skill, 2. a desperate strategy, 3 someone who has a stick up somewhere regarding that specific survivors.
That is a bit oversimplified, don't you think? Sometimes camping is just the logical thing to do.
Survivors don't heal and just push gens? Camp that guy. Someone will have to heal, if they want the unhook. Otherwise that guy dies and you may get a second kill after that.
You play Plague and nobody cleanses? Same idea.
Survivors hide and pre run every chance they get? Let them come to you.
Chasing takes too long because the map is stacked beyond reason? Camp that guy.
There are more examples but you get the idea. In all of these situations working with further punishments and giving the killer some small incentive to get into the next chase could work wonders. I'm not talking about extra BP here. Let's be honest, most of us don't care about BP over wins. Especially not now, that you get addon stacks you can never fully use. The reduced grind had this as an unfortunate side effect. The only reasons to grind are for new players to unlock perks and for veterans to get characters to P100. Which is not really worth it because it's just a number. You don't unlock anything special.
Instead, 1 survivor with the least hook stages could be revealed to the killer after they get a hook. That would already help tremendously.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think incentives alone will work. But penalties alone will not work either. The more you punish a killer for playing effectively, the more they will be inclined to double down on that. Because all these penalties will be abused in some way. This is why I think it takes both incentives to leave the hook and penalties to stay around the hook.
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It favors whoever brings the stronger stuff for the most part. That includes killers.
If one were to say that the game is simply killer sided, that would mean that even Myers, Trapper and Freddy have the upper hand over the survivors. But if that was the case, then how comes you see few people claim that killers typically associated with B-tier are overpowered? In fact, you see more people call for buffs.
In very low MMR the killer is largely favored (no matter who it is) because 1 killer simply cannot make as many mistakes as 4 survivors. On the highest levels, the game is survivor sided. Only 2 killers (Nurse and Blight) with their best loadouts can tip the scales at that point and most players agree, that these should not exist. So we can't really take that as the average.
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First thought: This will be a disaster.
Turns out I was wrong. Because calling Slog Merchant a disaster doesn't quite cut it. This is worse.
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Basically, you take away a killer's ability to punish to stupid positioning. When 2 survivors are right next to each other and one goes down, then why should the killer not slug? Slugging is a necessary evil. It's not fun to play against but at some point we have to stop with this hand holding. Make better decisions and don't group up when there is a risk the killer will slug.
This is pretty much the equivalent of removing flashlights and fire cracker from the game. It's not fun when you get blinded, even less so, when it leads to a save. But ultimately you messed up and could have avoided this.
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I'm not sure the words Proxy-Ranged-Face-Campers really work (it's not really face camping, if the killer isn't right next to you, although original face camping hasn't been a thing for a long time anyway) but I like your suggestion overall. Figuring out the exact numbers would not be easy. It definitely cannot be map wide or else survivors would have the killer look in that direction during a chase and then this mechanic punishes them not matter what. It also can't be too short because then it wouldn't be very effective. A Huntress can hit you from 20 metres away.
That part about the killer not moving at all wouldn't work. It would only serve as a minor inconvenience but when someone is determined to camp, then having to walk 2 steps back and forth isn't going to stop them. Forcing them to walk larger distances could have the intended effect but it would also become a bit of an issue when the hooked survivor is either in a dead zone (doesn't matter then, as the killer could circle the hook) or they are in an area where the killer will need to stay (for example 3 gens).
I think killers need more of a reason to actually leave the hook. Same as for tunneling. As it is, both tunneling and camping become the go-to strategies in many cases. Partly because they are pretty easy to execute and quite effective at that. But also because killers have no reason at all to play normally. There is no base game mechanic to push them towards a more fun play style. Quite the opposite actually. Because many issues killers face can be worked around with tunneling and camping.
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Looks pretty good. I only hope that we won't have the same situation as in the GoJ main building again, where there will be areas that are pitch black. I am fine with the dark but if I can't make out the wall that I'm running into then that is an issue.
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@blackmoonrealex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/403444/dev-update-feedback
I said this before and I’ll say it again - condemned needs to go.
Sadako has map mobility and stealth, but she’s terrible during chases. Condemned wasn’t really all that strong, and now that it’s been nerfed, it’s really useless. Who cares about locking in condemned? There’s not going to be any time or justification to use it as a means to get kills.
She needs something that will help her along throughout the match. Stacking condemned doesn’t match the lore anyway. Sadako is the only killer with a status effect that does nothing unless she downs a survivor after meeting a demanding criteria.
That is wrong. Her PTB version was mostly fine. Not top tier but pretty decent. The only thing needed were some twists to her base power (twists that have been thoroughly discussed and explained in the PTB feedback section) and another addon pass. A real addon pass this time. Because most of her addons are genuinely not good.
They had her in a pretty good spot but then for some reason this whole mess happened.
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@dance said:
To address The Hillbilly's Chainsaw volume: While that wasn't in the Dev Update, the volume should be quieter when the update goes live.
That's a big thank you from me and probably every other Hillbilly enjoyer on this planet.
Next time, include such details in a dev update. Pretty please.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634648#Comment_3634648
Not in his case. Not after four years of a dull, boring and uninteresting power.
The right thing can be done for Freddy, I know it can.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634658#Comment_3634658
The mere thought makes me happy, my friend. It is what we need, what I've been hoping for since July of 2019.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634664#Comment_3634664
I think these changes are eerily similar to Overheat being introduced to the game or Freddy getting a full rework: all things that shouldn't have happened.
I am trying to make my thoughts clear on this matter, my friend, but I am not sure how effective it will be. There was a lot of feedback for Sadako on the PTB, but it didn't seem to matter.
There was a lot of feedback for Sadako on the PTB, but it didn't seem to matter.
This is what really has me worried here. They made a pinned thread for that feedback and they had a lot to work with. But then they came up with this! It's shameful. Had they made no changes at all, it would be one thing. But nerfing her? This is concerning.
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The interesting thing is that they actually nerfed the Greased Throttle and Thompson Mix because this is how it worked on the PTB. They only toned down the numbers and added the bugged extra as an intended effect. Not sure how I feel about this but I get the feeling, that this is not good. Because this is a number that shouldn't be tempered with. Not now after they already buffed his base recovery.
The other addons are still not good. They need new effects. Changing their numbers will not do the trick.
But Sadako is where I draw the line. These changes remind me of Forever Freddy's downfall. Only Sadako wasn't that strong to begin with. She was in a good spot on the PTB. But this just terrible. They did not discourage condemned tunneling. In fact, that is pretty much untouched. Although, why tunnel, when slugging is more effective? I don't have the words to describe my disappointment.
These are dark times, when Sadako is nerfed but Blight gets to keep some busted addons. Now I'm worried for Freddy.
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Her PTB version had 2 viable play styles. You could either focus entirely on condemned or play normally and condemn everyone a little and hook them to lock that in. Now both of these have been deleted with only 1 alternative. Hardcore slugging. Even Twins wouldn't go that far.
How could they take a killer, that was in a somewhat good place on the PTB and just butcher her? It defies all logic.
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Billy.
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MMR takes the average value of your lobby and finds a killer accordingly. However, even if we were to assume that your own MMR is pretty high, this is still a bit weird. Someone that has just started the game is unlikely going to have an average to high MMR, so this should even out around the middle. Maybe these killers are actually in the middle as well and you just have bad luck with them being P100. Not everyone gets to high MMR (and that's good).
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The game could use some more fleshed out tutorials. The ones that we have are a bit too simple. It would also help, if they introduced some killer bots. PvE is a good chance to learn at least how the game works. It could even reward them with a few BP (maybe 50% normal BP gain).
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633467#Comment_3633467
Yeah, the current slowdown perks do not compare to Ruin, but I honestly think nothing ever will. Especially the first two versions of Ruin (1.3.1 and 2.6.0).
Those two perks grinded the game to a halt because survivors would go hunt for the totem, even if it was possible to power through Ruin's effect. Reworked Ruin used in conjunction with the original Undying also had a similar effect. It is a perk that reached the top of the killer meta with three different versions of itself.
I did not mean to imply anything about the strength of regression perks. Just that killers have to end chases for the good ones to work.
I cannot say how good the old version of Ruin (the one with skill checks) actually was. I simply wasn't around back then. Although, I imagine that this perk must have been terrible for beginners and less skilled survivors. I considered Ruin a pretty healthy perk overall because it required the killer to chase and it had a pretty good but fair effect (although old Undying must have been a huge pain in the Ace).
To be honest though, I think Ruin was past its prime anyway. Boon perks have lead to many survivors actually learning common totem spawns and that meant Ruin was more likely to be found. It was still pretty good but the risk of it just deactivating early on was huge. Maybe that's just my own perception though.
I think the current regression meta is mostly fine. It has its flaws but so did Ruin. The only issue I have with it is, that killers with trouble in chase can't capitalise on them as well as they'd need.
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Someone's playing in the big boy leagues. 👍️
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Damn, that's right. She's getting her 2nd rework. Although one might argue, that this one is less of a rework and more a return to the roots.
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
Better idea!! What if we removed tools of torment and pretended that skull merchant was just a collective delusion?
I second that. Slog Merchant was a mistake and it is apparent that the devs are not willing to make the necessary changes. She is the only killer in DBD history to receive 2 reworks (in the span of 1/2 year no less) and she is still terrible. She cannot be redeemed.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633420#Comment_3633420
More specifically, the killer completely determines the gameplay in its entirety. Everything in the match revolves around the killer.
If the killer isn't actively giving the survivors something to do (chase, unhooks, healing, etc) they will do gens.
Standing near a hook, chasing only one survivor, especially if you're terrible at chase, means there are at least 2 survivors doing gens the whole game. That's not spreading pressure, but it feels like most killers lack object permanence these days and seen shocked that gens are getting done while they focus attention on tunneling one person, or on literal furniture (gens or hooks).
I miss the days before 6.1 when kicking gens 'wasn't worth it' and killers focused on staying in chase every second of the match to maintain pressure on survivors.
That's not right. If I am held hostage by a group of survivors that only hide for 60 minutes, then I surely didn't "completely determine the gameplay in its entirety".
The same goes for survivors that limit interaction by finishing the gens in under 5 minutes. The killer does not determine that they don't want any interaction in that situation.
Both sides have a big impact on how the match goes. Only, a killer has about 4 times the impact of a single survivor. So for the survivors to match that, they need to work together (can happen in solo queue but mostly only happens in SWF).
The funny thing about gen kicks now is that they aren't "worth it". You will not be able to stall by simply kicking gens anymore. Just like pre 6.1.0. Every good regression perk now only works when a killer does actually progress. That's even more than you could say for Ruin. Ruin worked as soon as you started to chase survivors off gens but it didn't take a down for it to do its magic. The question is: How in the world do you get downs / hooks without chasing?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Generators have no feelings but survivors does. So generators will not cry after you finish to repair them.
Pretty much this.
The killer's play style has a more direct impact on their opponents.
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Hag. I find her enjoyable to play every once in a while but playing against her isn't my cup of tea. I prefer less campy killers.
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Blight is a very popular killer and these 2 perks are pretty much no brainers on him. So it's not that surprising that many people will use this combination. It is however surprising that you face that many of them. Maybe it's just a streak of bad luck?
Regardless, I hope you will see some more variety soon.
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That's rough. Having Slog Merchant among the killers you face most sounds like such a... Well, slog.
I thank the heavens I don't face her that often. Nurse is also not that common for me. Huntress and Wesker seem to be more popular where I live, which is honestly not too bad. Both are pretty fun to play against for the first 10 times in a row. After that I would appreciate some variety.
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@KazRen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633244#Comment_3633244
Couldn't they just have made it so dream transition prevented interactions besides vaults and pallet drops?
Possibly. Although this might cause different issues.
Overall his time management would still be pretty terrible. A M1 killer that first needs to invest 7 seconds to even get you into a state where he could hit you. That's definitely not ideal. Neither is passive slowdown like he used to have. Nobody likes staring at that red progress bar for what feels like an eternity.
I want old Freddy back too but they'd need to make quite a few adjustments to bring him in line with modern killers. He would need a somewhat good chase power (no more snares, please), the clocks would need to be implemented as a secondary objective and his teleport would also need to remain for mobility. All of this however would still make him pretty weak, if they didn't turn up the numbers.
Also, I think missing a skill check shouldn't wake you up. Freddy is the only killer that is countered by messing up. Dream hooks could also be a thing. They'd force a survivor to fall asleep for an unhook, not wake survivors up that are asleep and only work against sleeping survivors.
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@KazRen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633233#Comment_3633233
But wouldn't the 7 seconds of god mode be counteracted by the fact that the survivors do gens really slow or giving a 10% regression to wake up? I didn't read anything about freddy's power that said it had a cooldown so I'm assuming you could have just done a sort of hit and run style and put someone to sleep and go to someone else.
Back then, Ruin was meta and you couldn't stop them from cleansing the totem. Survivors could also heal in your face or simply cancel falling asleep infinitely by missing skill checks. This made Self-Care a hard counter to Freddy because it meant pretty much on demand skill checks when you were injured.
You can argue that it wasn't very effective because you wouldn't finish healing but this still meant that Freddy wouldn't even be able to hit you. So he couldn't down you either.
I think he could also be safely bodyblocked from hooks but I'd need someone else (@GeneralV, I summon thee) to confirm this.
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You can still defend gens and chasing is always necessary because otherwise your slowdown perks do absolutely nothing. Honestly, this doesn't sound too bad. They might need to makes some tweaks though because they overcompensated for gen tapping a bit too hard. 5% is just too much. Maybe make it so that a survivor will now spend at least 1 full second repairing a gen.
I think that should be enough. With the 5% per kick it might even be unnecessary to make any further changes to gen tapping.
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7 seconds of survivor god mode from what I've seen.
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@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633039#Comment_3633039
I'm around there as well.
I dnt even play well, my perks play for me as killer.
You know you can say the same for survivors, right? Lithe, WoO and Deja Vu come to mind.
I agree though, that some perks have too big of an impact and make up for a lack of skill. On one hand, we need these strong perks because they create this flawed yet existent balance. On the other, it would be nice not to feel like you lose against loadouts rather than players.
Edit: Thinking about it more, it might actually be good the way it is. A lot of the time our losses feel so crushing that we look for something to cope with. So in that regard it might be good that perks are so strong that we can blame them instead of our own mistakes.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632985#Comment_3632985
I think the Hatch does a LOT to keeping the Escape Rate over 30%. I don't know that you'd want to remove that.
Do we know that hatch escapes are considered escapes when it comes to kill rates? I really am not sure how this is counted because at least in terms of MMR it counts as neither a win or loss.
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Lightborn is fine as is. No need to change it.
If I don't want to deal with flashlights, then I'll use Lightborn. The drawback is that I only have 3 perks left and you'll know that I don't have something better because you will notice when Lightborn is in play.
It's a quality of life improvement.
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Nah. Killers have some pretty nutty perks at the moment.
Pop is pretty decent, Surge is still good, Pain Res and Deadlock are no brainers, Corrupt Intervention is arguably the strongest perk in the game (although I personally prefer Lethal Pursuer), UW hasn't been nerfed (which is genuinely surprising considering the mass of complaints), Grim Embrace is getting a buff... I really don't know what more you could ask for.
There is at least 1 good perk for every situation. Anti healing? Sloppy. Info? UW. Slowdown? Yeah, we've got plenty of that. Chase? STBFL is pretty good (although this one gets the wrong nerf).
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@Adaez said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632395#Comment_3632395
This is just wrong, I can easily get 3 or 4k with Myers and not even using his strong tombstone or infinite tier 3 addons, I just use a low terror radius tier 2 with sloppy and I can outpressure survivors, you cant do any of that on Legion, you just have to gigabrain every loop and get lucky to get fast downs that never happens.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632415#Comment_3632415
Because its not, with the current meta in the game, The Nightmare has acces to some pretty great perk combos combined with his best addons, he's not bottom tier for me, that place is reserve for current Legion which I struggle the most because good survivors just dumpster him since his power is so easily counterable.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632568#Comment_3632568
Too bad his frenzy doesn't last enough or isn't fast enough while in frenzy to catch up and have enough time to injure more than 1 survivors most of the times because they just split up, you chase a survivor with frenzy, frenzy runs out before you even get the hit, now you're stuck in a no power chase with a healthy survivor and you already lost a lot of pressure, rinse and repeat, he is the worst killer in the game, Trapper at least has the element of surprise with well placed traps.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632632#Comment_3632632
His information and injuries are meaningless because of this, he has the weakest form of antiloops, which makes him the worst chase killer in the game, and his power doesn't even give him that much mobility and information if you dont get a hit, not to mention its so easily counterable, in a state of the game where survivors hold w and when they cant, they can just drop a pallet on your head and go next loop, his Feral Frenzy is always a few seconds shorts to give him any meaningfull pressure even if you use both his Feral Frenzy addons.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632652#Comment_3632652
Not doing this, but when I dont, most of the times, Frenzy runs out before I get another hit, so i'd say its just better to get an injury and try to get a down, which wastes a lot of time againts good survivors. This killer heavily relies on survivors mistakes to get free frenzy hits, if you dont, you'd be lucky to get 1k.
Then you're playing against survivors that allow you to do that. There is no shame in it. If the survivors are good enough, they can easily delay you for multiple gens, while you desperately try to get a down. Shift + W alone is enough to buy so much time against Myers. You don't have anything outside of chase and even in chase you're still not that big of a threat. On top of that, you have an incredibly weak early game (even for a M1 killer) and you also need to spend a lot of time just staring at people.
Overall his time management is pretty terrible and his power just doesn't make up for it. You are still a normal M1 killer for the most part. A slightly better lunge in tier 3 might help around some of the more unsafe structures but on safe tiles it won't help you. Something else that holds him back is the danger of running out of stalk on 1 or more survivors. Imagine you find Meg in a safe spot but stalk her to get your power. Then you find someone else and use your power on them. Repeat that process a few times and suddenly you have trouble entering tier 3 again.
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It's decent. It's not as common that every killer will need to wait it out on every survivor in every game (god, that was awful) but it's still a good perk and I will wait it out after I've seen it once.
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I agree with your suggestions for Billy.
Blight needs completely new addons. Again. These will not do. They are impossible to balance.
Sadako could use some new addons. She had 2 addon passes already and still a majority of her addons remain unchanged. This is just sad. Her addons aren't even that good to begin with.
I will be honest, I don't like the new Grim Embrace. It's strong and it might be enough for some killers to tunnel a bit less but I personally don't like gen blocking and worse it had this synergy with DMS on the PTB that just made it a nightmare to play against.
STBFL should only have 6 stacks max with a percentage of 5.5. That would bring it the closest to pre 6.1.0. It should only lose or gain stacks on M1s. As a compensation however, it could turn the recently unhooked survivor into the obsession and deactivate after a certain amount of time has been spent in close proximity (16 metres for 5 seconds) to a hooked survivor until the killer leaves that area or the survivor is unhooked.
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I'd prefer, if they didn't have collision. That way they couldn't bodyblock either.
Edit: There is no anti camp feature. It's an anti FACE camp mechanic. It's not supposed to do anything against proxy camping. It also isn't really a surprise that killers instead of face camping will now proxy camp-
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632395#Comment_3632395
Legion's a solid lower mid tier killer at their weakest.
Legion has a really effective chase power and produces a huge amount of slowdown and information when played effectively. While they'll rarely down anyone with their power alone that isn't really their goal. The goal is to constantly force survivors to mend or risk playing injured long term making it easier to down them overall. Much like Pig their power is designed to waste survivors' time rather than serve as a proper life or death threat. Regression has seen a lot of nerfs across the board over time and now certain killers don't really benefit all that much form stacking regression perks. Legion is one of those killers and I would suggest stacking healing speed penalties to draw out the length of time they have to commit to healing/mending.
That amount of time waste adds up to about the same amount of time you gain from stacked gen regression perks.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
When you can't get a down with their power, then you play the purest form of M1 killer known to man. This is bad. Really bad. A good survivor can loop you for all eternity. The slowdown you produce by deep wounding everyone is not enough to compensate for that and neither is the information. Even when you give up multiple perk slots for chase perks (probably Bamboozle and PWYF), you still have a chase power that doesn't reach Clown's.
At their best, Legion are maybe somewhere in the middle. At their worst, they are weaker than Clown. Possibly weaker than Trapper. Both have an advantage in chase that should not be ignored.
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@Shroompy said:
The game has everything a FTP game normally has, plenty of DLC's, lots to grind, a battle pass, and tones of cosmetics. With all that it should go free to play, how ever the only thing keeping cheaters at bay is that price tag. We've all seen what happened when it was free on Epic.
But if they can get a proper anti cheat goin, I think the game going FTP is more than fine and would probably bring in more players.
The problem is that they can't prevent cheating. Whenever they update the anti cheat system, the cheaters find a way around it. So it's only a matter of time until they need to repeat the whole process. There is no solution other than constant maintenence. Which takes resources. Lot's of them. If the game was FTP, then this might become even more of an issue.
I'm not against the game becoming FTP but we cannot go back to another cheater epidemic.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632395#Comment_3632395
One day, my friend, I'll convince you that this version of Freddy we have now isn't the weakest killer in the game.
But hopefully when that day comes Freddy will already have his old power back with some QoL improvements and his reworked power will be nothing more than a mere bad dream.
That is a challenge I accept. 😉
We may not agree on Freddy's standing on the tier list but we definitely agree, that he deserves better. The Hillbilly rework gives me hope on what is to come for Freddy. They addressed almost all of his many, many, many issues and it is clear that they took our feedback into account (some of this reminds of what I suggested as a possible rework for him).
One day, my friend, Freddy will rise.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632378#Comment_3632378
So a couple of things: it’s not really about being high and mighty. That is your perception. But know that if I felt it, I wouldn’t have engaged with him at all.
I’ve also been quite civil. I met that individual with the same attitude & presence he brought to me, but I presume you overlooked that. Additionally, three other people responded to Radianthero directly challenging his opinion—including one other person who pointed out that his stance was constructed in a way that left people thinking something other than what he presumably meant to imply.
If you read the entire exchange you might see where I figured out what he meant several comments after my first comment (that he responded to), because he clarified himself. I even agreed with him at the point where it was clear what he meant because I believe that. And then he become passive-aggressive and rude (or did you miss that “thanks”? 😏). So he got that attitude back.
As for him feeling dogpiled, I am one of four people who responded to him. Believe it or not but we didn’t conspire as a group against him. He made a poorly explained comment that left people thinking he meant X when it seems he really meant Y, so they responded accordingly. It’s no one’s fault he was misunderstood except his own.
My perception comes from a specific choice of words on your part. Read your post again. Surely, you can see how that comes across as high and mighty?
I do not accuse you of deliberately ganging up on him. I'm saying that I can see where this is coming from. I have read your exchange but frankly I cannot say that I read anything else here that matched your attitude. This is what I criticised. Disagreeing on something is fine. Good even, as it means that both parties will lay out their respective views on a matter. But I will call out someone who does not follow the etiquette of a proper discussion and I expect to be called out on it as well.
I ask you to remain respectful. The way you interact with me here. I enjoy discussing things with you and other members on this forum but I cannot say, that I enjoy seeing this kind of attitude. From what I have read, you took a snarky remark (not that that helped him in any way and I do not stand for that either) and dialed it up to 11 by phrasing your post in that way. This is quite frankly beneath you. You can do better. You have proven that much.
Misunderstandings can and will happen. He did not make his point clear in a way that everyone understands. That is valid criticism. Constructive criticism at that. And I agree that he could have expressed himself better. This however does not change the fact that your post was more than a little passive aggressive, displayed what I can only describe as a superiority complex and was likely to derail the whole discussion further.
Both you and @radiantHero23 can do better than this.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632273#Comment_3632273
That could actually be done.
Back when modding was a thing, there was a mod that attempted to recreate the original lighting of the maps and it actually got pretty close.
I think we should be able to choose which version of the maps we want to see in our games. I would be happy to never see the reworked graphics again, daytime Coldwind in particular.
That could work on some maps but definitely not all. I fear, that the old Haddonfield aesthetics are gone forever.
To think I'd get all nostalgic about old Haddonfield... I hated it so much back then but now I miss it, if only for the visuals. What I wouldn't give to get bullied on that map just one more time just to have a chance and appreciate that hell hole in all its glory.
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@Shroompy said:
This looks like a much better loading screen, if Survivors could see the perks of their teammates it would be even better
Wouldn't that be too late? What use is it to see everyone's perks during the loading screen? You won't remember 4 perks on 3 different people and you cannot change your own perks anymore.
I'm not against it but I'd rather see the other survivors' perks in the lobby.
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@Shroompy said:
Legion isnt the best killer by all means, but he aint any where near the bottom.
The strongest aspect of his power is definitely the information. Knowing where basically everyone is at all times is a very strong tool, especially when theyre more than likely injured.
Sure he doesn't really have a chase power, but a Survivor thats injured is a lot less likely to take risks, which burns through their resources faster.
Could he receive tweaks to make him better? Absolutely, but hes not in dire need of attention
Just out of curiosity, where would you rank Legion?
I think Legion is in a somewhat ok-ish spot but comparing him to other killers he doesn't get very high. Not a candidate for D-tier (that's Myers, Trapper and Freddy in that order). I just don't know if I'd put him above Clown (both have their strengths and weaknesses).
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632176#Comment_3632176
I have been involved in way to many discussions around this so it is only fair that i stick with that standard. Those i said are basically 1 to 1 quotes.
EDIT: Killer mains defend the 60% killrate. The reason why it is "fair" for them is because killer is supposed to be the scary monster and therefore they should win more often.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632153#Comment_3632153
That is also not neccessary true. Again, i can only say what i remember, but it was pretty even. Also Trapper or Pig had high winrate on top level. I am aware that nightlight is not accurate, but it is close enough for reference. There the winrates speak the same language.
About top MMR on specific killer. From what seems to be logical to me is that high winrate = high MMR. Therefore, when Trapper on high MMR has lets say 60% winrate and Nurse has 60% winrate, they play against the same kaliber of survivors.
Therefore, when Trapper on high MMR has let's say 60% win rate and Nurse has 60% winrate, they play against same kaliber of survivors.
How do you figure? High MMR is not a number but a range. I don't recall the exact numbers but that is not necessary. The highest cap is way higher than the soft cap to high MMR. They took the 5% highest MMR on each individual killer. That could mean (again, I don't recall the actual numbers) 1800 as the absolute highest value for a Trapper and 2300 as the absolute highest value possible, which is reached by exactly one Nurse main. For the Trapper it would mean, that the matchmaking is looking for survivors close to an 1800 MMR. For our Nurse on the other hand, the MMR would look for people close to 2300. These are not the same caliber survivors.
We know that some players have insanely high kill rates in high MMR. However the overall kill rate is supposedly close to 60% (55% according to Nightlight), so there must be people that have lower kill rates up there to balance the scales. However, if these were some few players, then they should eventually get back to normal MMR because they constantly lose. Meaning, that after a while only the killers that win at least the expected value of games would remain. This would lead to kill rates in high MMR going up because there wouldn't be any players to balance the scales.
This brings me to the conclusion, that in high MMR most people have a kill rate slightly lower than the expected ratio. It's not enough for them to fall off. But it's enough to balance the scales. Hence, the game is slightly survivor sided on that level.
Feel free to disagree. I have no proof for any of this but it's the only logical explanation I can muster.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632128#Comment_3632128
Witch hunt? Hon, I don’t personally believe you play more survivor. My acknowledging that bit at all was giving you grace you haven’t earned. That was your freebie.
I don’t see anyone ganging up on you. But if you believe that to be happening, order your thoughts before you express them so people more accurately understand your disjointed, half-cocked points. That advice is also free of charge. You’re welcome.
Holy cow. Have you read that post before you sent it? Maybe leave your superiority complex out of this. You do not "grace" anyone. None of us do. You're not that important and neither are any of us. You're just a random person on the internet and so are the rest of us.
Also seeing as you were pretty passive aggressive towards @radiantHero23 here, I can see why he felt ganged up on. Especially with multiple people at once arguing against him. He made a claim. You disagree. That's fine. Why get all high and mighty about it?
We have had our disagreements but at least we've kept it rather civil. But here you get all condecending. This is not how a constructive argument works.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632015#Comment_3632015
Probably not, to be honest. I stopped playing DBD for a bit shortly after the first Resident Evil chapter released because the game was no longer enjoyable, in my opinion.
But I was around for Infinite Mending Legion, which is a rather extreme example but I honestly consider this Boil Over problem to be just as bad. Boil Over just happens to be more situational.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632016#Comment_3632016
Indeed, but a player can choose not to abuse it. It is also their fault for doing it.
I'm sorry you had to go through that, now I really know just how frustrating this feels. Hopefully this perk will get changed as soon as possible and we can stop those situations from happening.
That was about the time of Artist's mid chapter iirc. Basically, Boil Over was way stronger than it is now and the RPD library didn't have any fixed hook spawns on the upper floor at the time. So you would see some individuals send themselves there with Boil Over, Unbreakable and No Mither. There was no possible way to hook them and there was no way to keep them on the ground either.
I remember fondly a war of attrition against 4 Steves during that time. They were hell-bent on making the match miserable for me, so I returned the favor and kept one of them slugged and downed him again every time he got up. When it was clear that I wouldn't leave him, the others triedt to save him. Which ended with them going on hooks because they didn't make it to the correct spot. The end game chat was priceless.