Xernoton
Xernoton
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@Pulsar said:
It's been about the same since I got here.
Really? I feel like it has gotten a little better overall. It's still a lot whenever something new is added to the game but for the most part I think it's better than 2 years ago, when I joined the forums.
The us vs. them discussions definitely seem to have decreased in number.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643010#Comment_3643010
Yeah the closest ive seen to "uncounterable" from him is when he has boots and engravings he can fake leaving hook and come back and instant down a unhooker after the unhook animation. Hes very fast at hook trading and "proxycamping" hell ive done it on accident a few times when returning to the hook. You have to be very careful in a open map and make sure you keep your eyes out before fully commiting.
That's true but it's not like that is unpredictable. You can hear and see him coming from miles away. So the only thing you need to do in order to avoid him is either to unhook from the other side and use the hooked survivor as a meat shield or bait it out.
I view that similar to a Huntress proxy camping. It's mean and definitely not the most pleasant to play against but it's by no means unbeatable.
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@Shuma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642948#Comment_3642948
I meant, why is survivors doing their object bad. The only thing I can come up with is that it makes the game to fast for killer players. If that is what is bothering killer players then healing has been shown to slow the game down. It gives both sides breathing room and it doesn’t disrupt the balance of the game.
I see why people complain about camping and tunneling.
But I don’t see why “genrushing” is a problem since this is what Killer players seem to want over the slower games you get from a “healing” meta.
Gen rushing is the survivor equivalent to camping and tunneling. It's doing your objective efficiently. When one side does it, that forces the other to do so as well.
It's easy to see why people complain about both. Because it minimises interaction. If the game is over in less than 5 minutes, then how much did actually happen during that time? Not a lot.
The first 10-15 seconds are just the killer making their way across the map and then there is also hooking (let it be 8 seconds on average) and traversing the map again to actually find the next survivor (10 seconds minimum). Now factor in how long the average chase should be (45 seconds and that's pretty fast).
With all of this, a killer can get about 4-5 chases during a match. This is a loss. A pretty bad loss at that. So they need to focus on playing more efficient too. You can't really reduce the down time much more, so you need to reduce the chase time. However, that means that the ratio between the time spent in interaction with the survivors (the part that is actually fun) and the down time becomes even worse. So the match overall becomes less enjoyable for both sides.
The alternative is to try and focus on slowing the game as much as possible. This equates to stacking slow down and tunneling / camping to get a quick kill. This is the more enjoyable approach for the killer because it allows them to spend more time in chase. But it's the one that's even worse for survivors because they lose without actually having made a mistake themselves. If you weren't hooked yet but your team mate is dead at 3 gens, then the game is over regardless.
The healing meta didn't slow down the match a lot. It was minimal because survivors healed so fast and efficient, which became a serious issue. You couldn't really counter a 3 seconds heal and it didn't buy you a lot of time either (you could even say it contributed to faster matches because it was less time spent healing thrice than now once).
This is not a strong argument either. 2 things can be a problem at once. For example Nurse is overpowered. Does that mean, that C33 and Alch Ring Blight was fine? I don't think so.
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@NotAnotherDoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642112#Comment_3642112
"If you go down in the first 10 seconds of the match, that is your fault. How hard is it to move a few steps to the side or get behind an object when you the match starts and you hear him revv?"
On console, billy moves faster than controller allows a response for. He's a problem
Yeah. No. That's not how it works. He moves at 15.6 m/s max. That is the absolute fastest he can manage with Overdrive and Engravings. You still get out of the way easily, if he isn't too close already. In which case, that's your fault again for letting him get so close without trying to dodge / get behind and object sooner.
If you can react to everything he does, then he can never hit you. So there needs to be a little precaution involved in his counterplay. Otherwise he goes straight back to where he was. To being a killer that is only threatening on paper. You can dodge a hatchet too and that's even faster than Billy (quite a bit faster at that).
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@Shuma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642803#Comment_3642803
Why is genrushing aka doing the only object that survivors have left, bad?
If you want a longer game, then buff healing. Healing slowed the game length down because survivors would waste time resetting.
"Why is killing aka the only objective killers have left bad?"
This argument is pretty weak. Both sides only have one main objective and increasing efficiency forces the other side to follow suit. If I were to tunnel at 5 gens, then the survivors would lose every single game, if they played chill and went for chests and totems. If I were to play chill and play against people that finish the 5 gens in less than 5 minutes, then of course I won't be able to compete either.
The funny thing about healing is that it barely slowed the game at all. Survivors could realistically heal themselves quicker than a killer could injure them. Multiple times per match with no set up needed. That's why medkits had to be nerfed. Medkits are still good. Just not as broken as they were.
The game is in a pretty good spot when both sides play similar. But when one extreme meets another, for example a 10k hours hard tunneling Nurse main with 4 regression perks meets 4 casual solo players, then it's really not fun. Which is why the extremes need to be looked at. On both sides. You can't have killers spreading hooks and playing chill when the gens are done in 5 minutes tops and you can't have survivors that play chill when killers tunnel from the get go either.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642902#Comment_3642902
Yeah introducing my 2 friends to billy i told them the first thing about the addons is to ignore those because you can just tap the saw for a half a second to stall dissipation lol. Thats what ive been doing. The only case i could maybe see is one of them removing dissipation entirely. That might be decent for a yellow maybe.
I thought about that too but I'm not sure, if I'd use it. Maybe if it allowed you to activate Overdrive on command once you have reached full heat. That would be interesting. But this could be a purple addon I think because it adds an extra layer of utility.
I'm half convinced the devs couldn't think of anything better and designed them for that reason alone. But to be fair, designing addons for Hillbilly is surprisingly difficult. His power is rather straight forward and a lot of things wouldn't make sense for him.
Edit: Maybe he could have an addon that hides the blue glow of his chainsaw. It would be pretty useful because it makes him less predictable. Although it could feel a bit cheap to play against.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642907#Comment_3642907
that perk has no duration.
You said Leverage was the only other healing debuff perk in the game besides Sloppy Butcher. That has nothing to do with duration.
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I think solo queue is not quite so bad. Yes, playing in a SWF is of course better but solo queue can work out pretty well, when everyone pulls their weight. And the for the most part I get matched with people that at least try to do that. Of course I don't escape every single game but you can't really expect that. It's the same for killers as well. You win some, you lose some.
My favorite build for solo queue is Open Handed, Bond, Lithe (or SB, sometimes even Smash Hit) and whatever I feel like (Blast Mine or We'll Make It are always good options). It's all the information I could ever need and helps me get a head start in chase.
However, I feel like solo queue always comes in waves of good and bad games. I'll have a lot of fun and escape a lot for a while, then I get tunneled by quad slowdown Blights with C33 and Alch Ring for 15 games straight. Maybe that's just my experience though.
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I'm slightly worried about Huntress because she doesn't really need any changes. Maybe some of her addons but she is in a pretty good spot.
For Doctor it doesn't take much. Make the Moldy Electrode base kit and he's fine. He could use a bit more addon variety though. He doesn't really need 4 addons in 3 different rarities and the Order addons were still countered by WoO last time I checked.
I'm curious about what they'll do with Clown. I would give him one more bottle in his base kit, rework the Pinky Finger and be done with. More than that will only make him even more of a nightmare to play against than he already is.
Hag is a pretty difficult case. I really don't know what to do with her.
Demogorgon could have some better addons and maybe a slightly higher range on his shred. 1 extra portal would be nice as well.
Pig could use a little bit of help in chase. Her crouching speed shouldn't be that slow.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642843#Comment_3642843
i agree. It will be like Leverage where the mangled lasts for 30 seconds. Leverage is terrible perk but it would be consistent with the only other healing debuff perk in the game.
Coulrophobia has entered the chat...
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I didn't know there were 7 survivors in a match. But if all it takes is proxy camping to get easy 4ks, then that must the case. Otherwise, how would you explain the kill rates?
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I'm pretty sure that's an oversight.
I also agree that the High Speed Idler Screw, Thermal Casing, Discarded Airfilter and Ragged Engine need a rework. They might as well not exist because they fix issues that aren't there in the first place. No amount of number changes would help with that. They're simply unnecessary.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642855#Comment_3642855
The thing with whispers is that you can pin point where survivor probably is since you can thanks to game sence and map knowledge and knowing how this perk works (like a cyrcle around you) can find survivors quite offten. But it has some drawbacks of course on on 2floor map its missleading and not realiable. Main problem is, there are far better perks that do this but better.
It's such a big range that you really can't tell. Especially when survivors spread out. It will never turn off but that also means that any information it provides is very unreliable. It's simply not good. Not bad because it has some use but definitely not good.
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I agree with most of this but there is no way Bamboozle is a 5 stars perk. Not with this competition. I'd also put Lethal Pursuer down a tier. On it's own it's not all that good (good but definitely 5 stars worthy) and when you combine it, then it's multiple perk slots to make it shine. Compare that to Pain Res, Pop, GE, Deadlock and Corrupt Intervention, which all shine on their own.
Zanshin Tactics is actually somewhat decent on a few select killers so I'd put it as 2 stars (Doctor and Clown can capitalise on it pretty well). I'd do the same with Cruel Limits. It's not good but also not a wasted perk slot anymore.
I never understood why some people seem to think so highly of whispers. It's extremely unreliable. You get info that you are not at the completely wrong place when it's active but you should know that anyway. On some smaller maps it pretty much never turns off and even on bigger maps it won't when survivors spread out.
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Plague + Oni. There would be nothing meaner than that.
I would like to see Billy and Bubba though. Chainsaw bros forever!
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642254#Comment_3642254
Oppression only counts for the gen you kick, so theoretically in a 3 gen you could get 24 procs which is damaging gens 72 times.
Realistically though, that's unlikely.
I know but because she would walk around and kick gens about every 10 seconds, she would burn through them so quick it doesn't matter. That takes maybe 10 minutes, if she really uses all 24 kicks. Oppression also has pretty long cooldown. It does not work out. Something doesn't add up.
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@crogers271 said:
Using toolboxes probably.
If they were cheating, no reason to run a gen rush build.
If they were cheating to hit great skill checks, they wouldn't need stake out.
Cheaters usually try to hide their cheats, so the gen rush build would make sense. It's pretty much impossible to tell whether or not they were legit.
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The next killer is Otzdarva. Proof? The proof is that I made it up.
Without the VOD we can't really say what was going on. You even gave us the supposed time it happened but no VOD and since you seem to be the only one so far that has experienced this, it kind of sounds like you made it up. No offense.
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@RFSa09 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641649#Comment_3641649
You healed in a deadzone against an instadown killer and then ran into a haybale. You made several mistakes in this clip (and still managed to keep him busy for a while considering the situation you were in).
i was just playing for fun, i wanted those nasty autodidact stacks and i didn´t expected him to go back to the hook instantly (i´m not SWFing), the problem is: i literally can´t get out of the dead zone even if he misses 3 times, it looks bad dude, and i think hillbilly is fun to play against most of the time, if a blight miss the rush you can at least do something about it
Imagine if it was a Bubba, though. He would have downed you in less than 5 seconds. You still managed to buy yourself 25-ish seconds. In a dead zone. You ran away from an area that was a lot safer (main building) and towards a pallet gym that had no pallet anymore. Every other insta down killer would killed you faster in that situation.
He missed 3 times. Was that avoidable? Yes. Did he manage to avoid it? No. You still had more counterplay against him, then you would have had against a Myers, Ghostface, Oni or Bubba. With a different killer dodging wouldn't even have been an option. With Billy it is. Even experienced Billy players miss chainsaws. You can't avoid that other than not using it.
I struggle to see how this is a problem. Why were you healing in a dead zone to begin with? You should know better (and I'm pretty sure you do). Especially against a killer with high mobility and an insta down. The first thing you do in that situation is to get the hell out of there somewhere, where:
1) the killer won't know you're there
and
2) you have something to work with, if you are found.
It's pretty natural that he would come back after all. He knew that at least 2 survivors (unhooker and unhooked) had to be there. That's free info for a high mobility killer and an easy chance to hook the same survivor twice.
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Smash Hit is surprisingly ok. With the lower exhaustion timer you can use it pretty often and on a good map against a killer that isn't Huntress, Trickster or Nurse it can give you quite a bit of value.
It's by no means a meta perk but it's not bad. Just a bit inconsistent.
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@Yatol said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642030#Comment_3642030
because why would dev waste their time on a extremely rare scenario? If its such a pain, why don't you also DC then?
Because I get a penalty for disconnecting. It's that simple. Imagine, if you still had to repair the gens after the killer disconnected. It might be ok at first (extra BP) but after a while you'd just pray for it to end. Now make it 240 seconds per gen because playing against bots can take forever as well. Would you want to stay in such a match?
It's rare but it's something that can happen. Also this wouldn't be a huge effort. It's quite simple actually because the option to disconnect is already there. They would just need to add an exception to the penalty for all survivors being bots. That is pretty basic stuff. It's just a simple if-clause.
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@Shuma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642200#Comment_3642200
The self-care and healing nerfs affect solo-queue way more than SWF. Never understood the reasoning behind nerfing anything that affects solo-queue more than SWF.
It's not a solo queue nerf though. You can make this argument with pretty much everything in the game because solo queue is weaker than SWF.
You could even make this argument for infinite loops. Because SWFs are better in general and can buy time a lot easier, they didn't need infinite loops as much as solo queue. Were infinite loops fair? Hell no.
I would understand making this argument for something like a nerf to Bond. But this did not affect solo queue in particular but the survivor role as a whole.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642216#Comment_3642216
Overcharge, harder skill check drones and Oppression?
Could be Ruin as well.
She can't get unlimited Overcharge and Oppression procs though. Once she burnt through the 8 regression events, she can't kick the gens anymore, so Overcharge and Oppression won't activate either. It does not add up. Even with Ruin you would push through. The survivors could also destroy the totem. The silent skill check drones should not do that alone (unless of course you mess up every single one of them and get pretty unlucky with the amount of skill checks).
The only thing that would explain it is survivors refusing to do gens and just hiding. In which case, who is holding whom hostage?
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30 minutes? How? I can't imagine how she would have held 3 gens for 25 minutes now. I understand not liking Skull Merchant but your story doesn't add up.
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Survivors move at the same speed regardless whether or not they are injured. There are also perks that when combined can make a killer move slightly faster than a survivor even when carrying someone (i.e. Agitation, PWYF, NOED and Batteries Included). It's also possible that the status effect Hindered is applied to make a survivor move slower. Without context it's hard to tell, if it's really cheaters (although that is a possibility).
The problem with hits has little to do with hitboxes or cheats. It's called latency. Basically you and the killer do not see the same thing the server 'sees'. There is always a slight delay. Because of that it is very well possible you are already very well past the window on your screen but still in the animation on the killer's screen. Because the killer can only go after the survivor's position that is displayed to them, this has to favor the killer to some degree. They can't know that you're already past the window on your screen. Neither you nor the killer have a 100% accurate idea of where the server places you, so this can sometimes lead to hits looking pretty bad. It's the visual feedback that isn't quite accurate o that part. We know that the devs try to mitigate this but removing it is impossible.
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@Araphex said:
They nerfed solo survivor queue into the ground. So yes, they should buff survivor perks. But they won't because they cater to toxic players like you. I'm done with this trash game.
How was solo queue nerfed specifically? I can only remember solo queue specific buffs and nerfs to survivors in general (nerfs that were very much needed).
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But I like burgers and the people that make them like my money.
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@anarchy753 said:
"The community loves fun killers"
No, the community jumps onto whatever killer gives them the easiest time. Billy has literally no downside to being able to cross the map instantly and one-shot people even in relatively safe places against other killers.
It was PAINFULLY obvious when they nerfed him, and that whole cohort just jumped ship to Blight because he was the next most oppressive killer.
Then why doesn't Nurse have the highest pick rate? She is easier than Billy and a lot stronger too.
People typically gravitate towards whatever is new (at least when it comes to killers) and Billy is new. They changed almost everything about him. Give it a few more weeks and his pick rate will drop again. Although I doubt he'll return to 1.7%.
The reason people stopped playing him was because he was literally punished for the crime of using his power. Basically, you got the feedback: "Oh, so you play this killer for his power? Well, have fun being unable to use it for the next 20 seconds." Combined with all the map reworks and his nerfed addons, that made him pretty unrewarding for anyone who did not invest hundreds ot thousands of hours to learn to play him on a high level.
@Gastongard said:
Can anyone please tell me how to counter billy now? it seems impossible to loop him, his power has 0 cooldown, or at least thats what it seems, I cant do sh*t even throwing pallets, or juking him, because in the next second he has his chainsaw again. Why BHVR never seems to hit the correct spot? It always has to be waaay too Overtuned, or absolute dogsh*t, never the correct one so everyone is happy.
It depends on the loop. Around pallet loops, he'll typically try to get a curve on you. That is very predictable. So you can try to mind game him and get around a corner, or you predict whether or not he is going to curve tight or wide. If you get it right, then he will miss you. This will buy you a bit of time to get to a better loop.
Around tiles with high walls (i.e. jungle gyms) this works even better. You can also chain loops very well because he is quite slow while revving. When he is in overdrive, it becomes even more difficult for him to curve tightly. Keep that in mind. Besides that, he still has trouble dealing with windows. However, when it's very close it's now a better option to fake the window because of the extra speed. He'll likely try to hit you during the vault but if you can fake it and dodge to the side quickly, it's very unlikely he'll hit you.
Pallets are also still a way to delay him. On middle distance watch out for overdrive. As long as he's not in overdrive, you can react to the chainsaw quite well. When he is in overdrive, you'll need to either fake going around a corner and then dodge in the other direction or dodge right when the chainsaw starts. He's too fast to adjust.
If you are worried about getting sniped, try to put objects between you and him. Place yourself towards the edge of the map when working on a gen and look out for possible routes he could use to traverse the map. If you can roughly keep track of his position, then you're mostly fine.
There are some loops that you absolutely don't want to loop against him when he is in overdrive. I'll leave you to figure that out yourself (I want to enjoy this as long as I can) but around these loops it's best to run wide when he tries to curve you and quickly chain into another loop when he misses.
Try to maintain a little bit of distance so he can't back revv. If he gets too close anyway, your best bet is to dodge right as he is about to start the chainsaw (2.5 seconds).
This should cover most of it. I'm sure you'll figure some things out yourself. It can also help to play the killer yourself to get a better understanding of his strengths and weaknesses.
Hillbilly is a very oppressive killer now but definitely not uncounterable. It's just that you can't treat him like before. He is a different beast now.
Good luck and see you in the fog.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Turrets are fine as they are. He does not need big buffs either.
But his tail feels clunky and many times hit is not happening even you hit survivor. Animation is happening but it's not ending with health state.
So fix his bugs.
And his missing cooldown maybe too much. So maybe reduce it a bit as well, between current version and his first week.
Agreed.
Turrets are mostly fine. Maybe survivors could move slightly faster while carrying them (it feels a bit slow for my taste) but it shouldn't be a guarantee that they break him out of his power.
I would like to see the 1.2 seconds cooldown. We never even got to test it because they overcompensated for a bug.
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Explain to me the counterplay to Sprint Burst. Cos there's zero.
Both perks will activate. Are either of them problematic because of that? No.
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Yes. It's what I call the Freddy experience and it's why I consider him the weakest killer in the game.
I made a post a while ago with all the ways Freddy can be countered and left with pretty much nothing. He is in such a sad state. Why do survivors need to wake up after getting hooked? Why do survivors get immunity to sleep after interacting with an alarm clock? Why do survivors start the match awake? Why can't Freddy have any synergy with pallet perks? Why does Adrenaline have to wake you up? Why can't he teleport to finished gens?
I sincerely hope we'll see Freddy rise soon. Stay strong, friend. Billy's rework means there is hope for Freddy.
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@The_Yosh said:
I've never dropped so many indoor map offerings in my life. After the third game of getting instant chainsawed while trying to run between loops, I got over it. I replied to a post recently comparing Bubba (my main) to Billy and highlighted how ridiculous the new Billy is. However, people seem to think he is balanced now.
For reference Billy:
-Has no cooldown.
-Has overdrive.
-Has no tantrum when he bumps, if he does bump, he can almost instantly use his saw again.
-He can eat through pallets and keep his chainsaw going.
-He can zoom across the map and get someone down within the first 10 seconds of the game.
-And he can stand just outside of anti face camp, feathering his chainsaw and waiting for someone to unhook, while making his power more powerful with overcharge.
Billy definitely has it good right now, and it is evident when we compare him to Bubba.
Can you point me towards the patch his cooldowns were removed? Because so far I haven't found it. And I main him.
He still has all the cooldowns. They were reduced. Not removed. His current cooldowns are fine. The cooldown for missed chainsaws is completely fine too (although I don't like that it can ve reduced further with addons).
If you go down in the first 10 seconds of the match, that is your fault. How hard is it to move a few steps to the side or get behind an object when you the match starts and you hear him revv? This is all it takes for him to miss. After that, you start a normal chase against him. You can play around pallets, you can drop them and you can camp them (although your timing needs to be very precise, if you're going to do that). This has more counterplay than Bubba with the right addons, although there is one type of loops that becomes a complete death trap, if you don't know it. You when he tries curving that. (I won't tell you which one though, because knowledge is power. 😜)
Try proxy camping with Billy in the way you described and you get the endurance effect at best. It's not that hard to either bait out the chainsaw (if he is in overdrive, which you can clearly see and hear), dodge (if he's patient) or tank the hit for the unhooker. In that scenario Bubba gets better results.
Billy is better than Bubba now but that's honestly not a problem. Billy is quite a bit harder to play as well, so the skill that goes into it should have a payoff. Compare him to Wesker, Plague or Artist though and he falls off. He is definitely not overpowered but in a pretty good spot.
If anything Bubba needs some buffs. He's too addon reliant and the tantrum could be reduced slightly. Some of his addons are also still bugged (or poorly coded, if you're more pedantic).
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She was reworked twice and she is still the worst designed killer. It's not even a competition.
Slog Merchant is a lost cause. It's not the numbers or the effects of her power but the very concept that is flawed. She is rotten to the core and no amount of reworks is going salvage this mess. Because it's pretty clear that the devs will not go back to the drawing board with her.
I'll just continue to do what I always do against her. Treat her like a Trapper without traps. I won't last long but that's honestly great. The sooner I die against her the sooner I can play against a different killer.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640741#Comment_3640741
I mean, it is a Nerf (both of it, for the respective side), this is true. But the goal was not to nerf something, the goal was to make things healthier.
And nah, it is just a net buff. If 8 Regression Events usually did not happen outside of 3-Gens (which was confirmed by the Dev), buffing the Regression to 5% is just a Buff.
As I said in another Thread, when someone wanted to argue that Killers needed this compensation because less gentapping would happen so Killers would kick Gens less often, Killers basically got compensated for a Buff with a Buff.
It was to be expected that it would come as nerfs / buffs. I'm not sure what other way there was. Can you think of one? I honestly can't.
We already see survivors that try to bait out the 8 regression events. If gen tapping was still as bad as before, that would be a huge nerf to killers overall. Tap the gen and now the killer either has to kick it again or it just won't regress. This becomes even worse when they don't stack gen regression (many do but not everyone). So there was some kind of change needed to gen taps (although I think this is overtuned). The 2.5% regression did nothing either. Now that killers can no longer kick gens infinitely, each regression event has to count.
So it's more 2 buffs to compensate for 1 nerf. I'm not sure yet how well this all works out and I'm open for changes to that. I have seen both extremes so far. Survivors that were completely unabale to keep up with the buffs and groups that got all 8 regression events out of the way and then pressured through with little to no trouble.
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@TangledNoodles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641338#Comment_3641338
I can tell you mostly play killer if you think doing generators is interactive. You think smaller maps and more tracking tools means less time doing nothing? Again more reason for me to think that you only play survivor once in a while. Most people get downed even faster and the game ends faster.
We have Freddy, Oni, Spirit, Onryo, etc etc who can literally teleport or sprint across a shrunken map. Most of the tiles with pallets are literal traps because weather you try to loop it or drop the pallet you're stuck in an animation and the killer gets a free hit no matter what you do.
Also just doing generators is not fun tbh, I personally don't find gen rushing fun. Why would I go into a match sit on gens the whole time and escape?...It's boring. I (and many others judging from the responses) need something that freshens the game it's not always about escaping or getting the 4k you have to enjoy the process otherwise what's the point? It would just feel like a chore or work.
What? Ok... At this point I am questioning whether or not we speak the same language here. I said there is nothing interactive besides the chase. Doing gens is boring. Which is why that should not be the main focus. This is why I argued that tracking tools are a good thing.
I am flabberghasted. How did you read my comment and came to the conclusion that I thought gens were interactive? I said that they were boring and that it's the general consent (in the off chance you preferred doing gens over chase).
Freddy's teleport is real oppressive. It gives him so much chase power because he has it permanently and it's not telegraphed at all and you can choose freely where to teleport to. Oh, wait. None of that is actually the case.
Also, you just listed killers that can do a little more against Shift + W than a Trapper. So you actually need to engage in a chase with them, which again can only be a good thing because Shift + W isn't all that interactive either, is it?
Shack, 4 lane walls, trash pile gyms, jungle gyms, rock filler pallets, all but one pallets on The Game, GoJ's pallets (again all but one) are death traps? You should not drop the pallet on the same side as the killer in case you didn't know. And when you get mind gamed around these (close to impossible on quite a few of them), then isn't that your fault? It can't be all god pallets like the one next to Midwich's staircase, that guarantee you can never get hit.
That last part clearly shows you either didn't read (in that case tell me and we'll leave it at that) or we don't speak the same language. We already covered that and you didn't actually argue against any of my points in that regard.
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@TangledNoodles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641470#Comment_3641470
I know that chases were crazy back in the day, I played through it but now it went to another extreme we have killers that can hit through pallets, walls, teleport, rush. But survivors got boons... which are quite useless unless the killers is literally blind and cannot spot the totem. You can even see the blue particle in the air and that's a dead giveaway of the general location of the boon. Last game I played I could see the blue particles from across the Knight's map, then next thing I know that person's boon was gone and quite frankly boon cons outweigh the pros imo.
You clearly missed the part where I said the game needs new game modes. I did not say to change the BASE game but it would benefit from having variety and fun game modes that are not as serious.
As for game modes it literally could be anything, 2 killers 8 survs, lights out (that they are working on now), special in game power ups.. ANYTHING maybe new surv Items.
I am speaking from the POV of a survivor. As a killer you can easy switch killers to change things up but as a survivor they're ALL the same.
Also like I probably mentioned before I just play casually these days usually if a friend wants me to join them, I just wanted to voice my opinion as someone who's been playing since the early days.
If you play the same against all killers then you clearly do not understand the strengths and weaknesses of each killer. This also explains why your matches are boring. I mean, you just immediately die because you didn't actually play around them.
The only 2 killers with a teleport are Singularity and Hag. Hag is a completely different beast. Play against her like you would with a M1 killer and your match ends in 2 minutes. That's the equivalent of trying to apply Nurse's (although very limited) counterplay against Bubba. It doesn't work that way and constantly losing is probably pretty boring. But that is your own fault. You choose to play that way.
If I were to play M1 Nurse, I would lose all my matches as well. Does that mean Nurse is a weak killer? I very mich doubt that.
Every killer has a unique power. You need to treat them differently. I don't understand how that would lead to the same gameplay every time. Unless of course you're just hard set on playing one particular way with no variation.
I agreed that a second game mode would be pretty nice. Not sure why you think you'd need to convince me. But you said and I quote: "Survivors desperately need new objectives or items." This was not directly tied to potential second game modes.
@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641470#Comment_3641470
Chases aren't engaging when 80% of the time all you can do is hold W and decide where to die.
Then you have the map reworks so on the occasion you get a killer that doesn't ignore the core chase mechanics, you can loop a LT wall or a pallet between a short park bench and a barrel. Where even if you get a pallet stun without being hit validated, you won't have enough distance to reach anything else.
Survivor skill expression is dead, mmr is awful, and gen progress crawls with the power creep in slowdown/tracking perks combined with empty dead zone maps.
Ok. Let's count all killers that have Shift + W as their only counterplay. That's Trickster, Knight, Artist, Skull Merchant, Chucky and Dredge. That is 6/34 killers (~18%). 18%<<80%. That is not debatable.
It's more that Shift + W is a counter to most killers. Even when these killers already have other counters.
LT walls are a good point. They are completely useless for someone who can't do the basics of looping but painfully strong for really good survivors. Win the mind game and you get out on top. Isn't that what loops should be like? Whoever plays better wins?
I am not a fan of the good ol' Ormond table pallets and other pallets that weak either. It's the opposite of shack. You don't have a right play as survivor. Nut let's be honest, there are at worst 15 such pallet spawns across all maps.
Survivor skill expression is definitely not dead. Gen progress always 'crawls'. Unrestricted gen speed is pretty much a guaranteed loss even against bad survivors and it only gets worse when survivors actually know how to loop. However, I am completely against the combination of DMS + Grim Embrace. This should have never gone to live.
I covered tracking perks before. Do you really want to hide all game? I don't understand how that would be fun. There is no interaction in hiding. Tracking perks mean less time spent doing nothing for killers and survivors. So, more time spent in chase. How is that a bad thing?
Empty dead zone maps? You mean like Ormond, The Game, GoJ, Asylum, Chapel, Shelter Woods, Toba Landing, all Badhams, all McMillans and all Azarov's maps? Yeah. Huge dead zones. You only have pallets everywhere and the mandatory main tiles.
The few maps with actual dead zones (like Haddonfield, Thompson House and Cowshed) aren't much better for killers either. Because they also have huge safe zones. Let's take Haddonfield for example. The streets start off as risky and then become dead zones as the pallets are depleted. The houses however remain huge safe zones the entire game. There are videos of survivors looping killers for all eternities around them. Cowshed is the same in that regard. One half is a giant dead zone, the other is filled with long tiles, Jungle Gyms, a Cow Tree, shack and more strong filler pallets. These maps are horrible for both sides.
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@Yatol said:
no, how often does every player in a game DC?
Is there any reason why the killer should have to play against bots when it comes to that? They do no longer ruin anyone's game at that point even if they dc, so I see no reason why killers should be punished for survivors not following the rules.
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The killer should have the option to end it. At that point, you're no longer ruining anyone else's match and you didn't queue up to play against bots. There is no reason why you should have to play it out.
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Billy will always hold a special place in my heart. I have mained him for 2 years and I have had more rage induced headaches than ever before, have spoken in tongues at the inexplicable things I've seen and cursed his name beyond reason. But I have also laughed until I was in tears, felt like an absolute god in the matches when everything worked out perfectly, reduced my brain capacity to: "Haha. Billy go BRRRR.", come up with absolute fivehead plays and found use in the most obscure perks.
I put Chucky so low because they removed what I personally found most fun about him and left scamper into hit. With Singularity I always go against people that embrace Shift + W, which counters his power completely, if you don't use either Coup de Grâce or the Soma Family Photo, plus it feels like you always have to be on top of your game even against survivors that play with their feet. Knight and Twins are so low because you always find a new bug with them. It's depressing. Xeno would be more fun for me, if its tail attack wasn't bugged (or is it fixed again?).
Sadako is still somewhat ok. Her demanifested mind games are pretty fun and her mobility is nice. I'd put Plague higher, if she didn't feel like I give up years of my life every time I play her because I have to sweat for my life. Matches with her are so short. I consider Freddy the weakest killer in the game and I embrace the challenge of dream pallet Freddy on GoJ. You get stomped most of the time, but really what did you expect?
Skull Merchant is the one killer I completely refuse to play.
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@TangledNoodles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641338#Comment_3641338
The thing is, chases these days are not as long as before and don't really buy your team much time. Survivors desperately need new objectives or items.
Chases aren't as long as before? Of course they aren't. You're not supposed to be able to loop a killer for 5 minutes with no trouble. Because if you can do that, then what is to stop the next survivor from doing that as well?
This isn't really a strong argument. A killer doesn't have unlimited time in a match and you cannot expect BHVR to balance the game around 3 hooks per match. A killer already falls behind schedule when you can delay them for more than 45 seconds (easier on some killers than on others). So it's not surprising that the average chase doesn't take as long anymore.
Survivors don't need new objectives and there are 2 main reasons for that:
1) New players are already overwhelmed and can barely get a grasp on how to play the game.
2) Survivors in general hate side objectives. We have seen that with pretty much every new killer over the past 2 years.
The main complaints about these killers are always connected directly to their in-built side objectives. The funny thing is, that we've been asking the devs for these things.
But for the sake of this argument, what kind of second objective do you think would best be suitable and what would make it more fun than what we already have?
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I disagree that the game becomes boring for survivors. I prefer the killer role but playing survivor for me is pretty fun as well. 34 different killers mean, that I cannot tell what's going to happen before the match.
It could be a Nurse that dominates us, a Trapper that struggles with the basics or even a Hillbilly trying to curve. Against each of them, I play differently. Looping is still possible. It just isn't as straight forward as it used to be. Just because you are behind a rock doesn't mean you are completely safe. This is what makes M1 killers so weak in the first place.
Smaller maps and more tracking tools mean less time spent doing nothing. The general consent is that doing gens is pretty boring. But that's almost 50% of the survivor role. So it can only be a good thing, when the killer is constantly in chase with the survivors. This is the interactive part of the game. It's what makes the game so addictive. I'm not sure what other part of the survivor role is so enjoyable that you'd prefer it over interaction with the killer.
With that being said, a different game mode would be nice. I would like something completely unpredictable, random and fun. Perks could be randomised every 2 minutes, the killer could change after every hook and pallets could randomly change places.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640648#Comment_3640648
Meh.
I would rather see the actual 3-Gen Solution and the removal of Gentapping as Game Health and not as a Buff or Nerf.
The increase to 5% (from 2,5%) on Kicks is a straight Buff tho.
How would that work? This entire thing is either a buff, a nerf or both. How would you turn that into a quality of life update with no balance implications?
The stronger gen kicks are a net buff but I feel it's a fair exchange for the loss of 3 gens in that sense. Playing around 3 gens is not really an option anymore. You'll burn through the 8 regression events and from that point everything goes south.
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Both sides received some nerfs but also buffs in that regard. Killers can no longer infinitely regress gens, because the amount of regression events was limited. This however also means, that each of them has to be impactful enough for the survivors to not simply bait them out and then push through.
I think what they did with gen tapping is a bit much (although a change was definitely necessary) but we will see how this works out. So far it seems mostly alright.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640541#Comment_3640541
tunneling, camping this and that all the same excuses for their demands. people bringing up tunneling as their justification for ftp buckle up nowadays also, there is no ending to it and some people don't realize if something is problematic it's problematic. of course changes needed and need to be done but you can't come at people that say those helping mechanics shouldn't be abusable and should be improved.
BT is absolutely an anti-tunneling perk.
with all fairness, bt is both an anti tunnel and anti camp mechanic; they oftentimes go hand in hand anyway.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640551#Comment_3640551
in end game i think it shouldn't be gone since survivors don't have any other off-hook protection anymore.
I see where you're coming from and I cannot argue with that logic because it's the exact same point I made just for survivors.
I guess, it would be possible to take hits. But that's pretty much it. It seems like there is really no middle ground. It's either a guaranteed escape or a guaranteed kill.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
I said this million times. BT need to be reworked. Keep haste effect and rework the other effect. Now survivor will lose collision. So killer can't bodyblock the survivor, so survivor have more chance to make it to safe loop. And also survivor can't bodyblock the killer for save their teammate.
But i know this won't happen and probably it will end some survivor nerfs.
It would be a pretty easy solution for both sides and I would like to see that too. Although, if this were to happen in end game as well, then there is absolutely no way for an killer to stop that survivor from escaping. Which means, they'll be more inclined to camp that survivor.
OTR could actually increase your movement speed (maybe 5-7%) with the same conditions as the endurance effect.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640292#Comment_3640292
Because the Killer is not the host anymore.
However, Killers Ping should be displayed. Because this is what actually matters, it does not matter if a Survivor has 30 or so Ping to the Server if the Killer has 200 Ping.
It does matter for the survivor as well. Just not quite as much. Teleporting survivors are still a thing. Also, when your ping as a survivor is bad, the position you see yourself in and the position the server sees you in are not the same. This means that sometimes a killer with a low ping can still hit you from miles away. Because you aren't where you think you are. How many times have you seen survivors suddenly teleport a few feet when they went down? That is a result of their ping.
With that said, I'd rather BHVR look into blocking VPNs and stuff like that. Showing the killer's ping will lead to quite a bit of lobby dodging. And while it is understandably frustrating to play against someone with 500 ms ping, you cannot tell how bad their connection actually is just from the indicator alone. I reckon even a short moment of yellow ping would be enough for some people to dodge lobbies. I have pretty good connection for the most part but sometimes my ping will go to yellow for a few seconds (don't know why). On rare occasions even to red. But then everything is completely normal again.
This could also be server related. The DBD servers aren't always the most stable. We have seen that time and time again.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640476#Comment_3640476
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640403#Comment_3640403
My bad, I didn't really understand your point because the discussion went from DS to 6.1.0 out of no where and I thought "the one" meant like some other important change you didn't agree with since that patch was pretty huge and it feels like an eternity ago to remember. By saying DS was a problem and then saying the nerf made it a mostly healthy perk, I assumed you meant you agreed with the change and were annoyed it's going back to its previous state. Thanks for clarifying.
Taking hits in solo queue only hurts you in the long run. I could hop on a game right now, take a hit for a survivor in chase, and they would go down in approximately twenty seconds anyway. Subtract the healing time and you gained practically nothing. Taking hits is only effective if the survivor knows what they are doing and can loop, this eliminates most of solo queue. Without communication nor an actual strategy, its pretty difficult to make it effective. Most killers being played right now are high mobility so the cooldown doesn't affect them as much as it does for M1 killers which people have lost the appeal to play as recently. There's instances where it helps for sure, but most of the time you're just shooting yourself in the foot. I can't recall how many times people trying to take hits for me would sandbag me instead since it happened that often. That's one huge advantage SWF have over solo queue. If you can manage to effectively do that on solo queue, your MMR has been blessed and you should find a comp team because your game sense is really good.
I could hop on a game right now, take a hit for a survivor in chase, and they would go down in approximately twenty seconds anyway.
In that case I can only say one thing. Skill issue. Not on your part but on that survivor's part. The same could happen in a SWF. But because you'll probably play with people that are about as experienced as you, it's less likely. This is not a solo queue issue in that sense. Just poor matchmaking. These are also the kinds of survivors that will use their DS and still die a minute later. You cannot help someone that is killing themself (even if unintentional) by playing badly.
[...] M1 killers which people have lost the appeal to play as recently.
Can't say I noticed anything special in that regard. It's pretty much the same as always with the exception of Billy having a pretty high pick rate (which I'm all for) for me. M1 killers aren't all too popular, agreed. But that isn't a new development. They're simply undertuned (most of them anyway). I can imagine that the STBFL nerf isn't exactly helping this situation either. Especially since its only real issue remains, though it is weaker overall.
I use Bond + Open Handed as a survivor. That allows me make better informed decisions and enables easier bodyblocks. I don't think my survivor MMR is too high. I consider myself to be a pretty bad looper. But it works well enough. Obviously I will not bodyblock in every chase but should it be necessary, I'll be there. And I have seen many solo queue team mates do it too. I had a game against a Chucky not too long ago in which we bodyblocked him 3 times in one chase. That allowed us to get 3 people out.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640403#Comment_3640403
DS nerf wasn't justified, let alone completely. It being disabled during endgame was 100% justified but the stun going from five seconds to three was silly. Three seconds (not even that since you need to wait for the drop animation) only gives you one Nurse blink worth of distance and yes I've seen it actually happen with my own eyes. DS is completely avoidable if you just don't tunnel. I suppose there was an issue when people with it would body block, but that's an easy slug these days. Killer has become a really solid role and, by slugging, you'll have one survivor guaranteed off a gen and one having to get off a gen to heal them up off the ground. Taking hits whilst someones tunneling has proven to be rather ineffective in solo queue which makes up most of the playerbase.
DId you actually read the whole sentence? I said, that the nerf in 6.1.0 was not justified. The ones prior to that however were very much needed. Survivor dribbling does not need to be a thing. Neither do survivors need to be invincible while working on objectives.
Although the part about DS in end game, I do not agree with. The killer didn't tunnel you and now as a reward you are guaranteed to escape. It should be the other way around because the killer decided to play nice. Not that it matters anyway. Base kit BT has the same result. You get 44 metres far. That is about half the map and you can also use exhaustion perks, windows, pallets or have your team mates bodyblock for you to buy yourself even more time. There is no way the killer can prevent you from getting out once you're off the hook.
I had suggested to buff DS to where it would disable a killer's power for a set amount of time, the timer would be increased to 90 seconds and also to increase the stun time to 7 seconds instead of 5. But this should come with safety measures like that survivor not being able to use Unbreakable (we do not need this meta back), flashlights or pallets for as long as DS is active and it deactivating when someone else is hooked after they got unhooked.
That last bit doesn't make any sense. Taking hits is just as effective in solo queue as it is in a SWF. It's just harder to pull off because you don't have the communication to set it up. However, when you can pull it off, you get the exact same results. SWFs do not increase the hit cooldown for a killer. Neither does solo queue mean that the tunneled survivor gets less distance from it. It has the exact same effect every time. It only needs to be done correctly.
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I saw a video before where someone said the Huntress was tunneling them. 17 seconds into the game. She didn't even have a hit yet. So you probably are a dirty, sweaty tunneler by someone's definition.
Just not by most people's. There is a difference between focusing on 1, ignoring everyone else (tunneling) and getting quick downs and finding someone that was already hooked again. As far as I am concerned, unless you have someone dead at 4 hooks max, you aren't tunneling.
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Every nerf but the one in 6.1.0 was completely justified though. DS had been a problem for a very long time. Then it finally became a mostly healthy perk. I expect it to go back to its pre 6.1.0 state.