Xernoton
Xernoton
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Nurse wasn't left untouched. Not at all. She haa received so many nerfs over the years, I honestly find it hard to believe that people just forget about them.
The reason she is still the strongest killer is because her power is game breaking. She ignores the very basics of this game. Of course that will make her strong.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841407#Comment_3841407
[Apologies for the delay we're busy lately]
Billy has had a spamable power pretty much forever (bar possibly when overheat was just introduced). He's always been a pain to us since we started way back but this isn't about it being a problem more of if we're fair to call Billy bs despite our bias. When overheat was in effect, it did give some form of punishment for repeatedly missing (admittedly a metric ton by average standards) which, to us, lined up with the other 1 shot killers, even if poorly since only bad Billy's ever were affected by it.
It's been repeated that you can dodge Billy easier than others but we disagree there, it's about the same as Oni. You predict and bait "Oni smash" the same as a point blank Billy but Oni is on a timer and has to prime his power with blood. Meyers and GF are effectively m1 insta downs so while harder to dodge point blank than a saw, they'd have to get there first, similar to bubba who also has no inherent mobility nor stealth like the later 2 but increased lethality with his saw.
Overdrive for us is more of an insult to us as if we can repeatedly dodge he gets "better", but that's our own thoughts on it.
As we said (or implied) Oni does have the better version but Billy's isn't that far off while also having it from the start at no effort for it like Oni does. We also have pointed that you pretty much dodge in a similar vein as Billy.
We are no in-depth expert so we'll defer to you on the history and skill expression. Being biased here's fine. It's supposed to give us different ways to look at Billy so bias away.
I think it is fine that Billy's power can be spammed because he is the only one shot killer that can really be dodged. You can of course try and spin a killer but that will only work, if they're inexperienced. Against a Hillbilly this comes down to mind games. Whoever makes the better read will come out on top and that is additional to the other counterplay you have.
A point blank Hillbilly is indeed very hard to dodge. An experienced player will back revv and keep the saw at 99% until they can all but guarantee a hit. But this isn't really what people talk about when they say you can dodge. Dodging typically refers to his curves and snipes. It is always in your best interest to maintain some distance so that he cannot just back revv. This is not always easy but considering that he has to revv the chainsaw for 2.5 seconds (2.375 seconds in overdrive), which allows you to cover 10 metres (9.5 metres in overdrive) before the saw actually goes off. If you are in a loop, you will probably be able to drop the pallet / vault window in that time. If you know that you are in a terrible spot either way, you can also try and force a M1 by waiting at the window and vaulting when he revvs. This is better than going down in one hit.
Against an Oni you don't have that much counterplay because his power works in a different way. Oni can react to your movements (and he has a gigantic hitbox) while Billy pretty much always has to make a prediction. That is why Billy has his power throughout the entire game.
I definitely see your point with overdrive. I would prefer the mechanic to stay but a rework to where it builds up very slowly for using the chainsaw and then a bunch when you get a hit. That would reward a Billy for playing well (this would require active overdrive to pause when the killer is carrying someone, so it doesn't incentivise slugging) instead of punishing a survivor that plays well. At the moment, I just don't like how he feels to play. Overdrive feels slow (although it is not even that much slower, so it's possible that it's just my own perception) and it takes forever to build up. The funny thing is that this still doesn't get me to use any of the dissipation addons. I could bring nothing at all and it would be pretty much the same result.
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@Xyvielia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841475#Comment_3841475
Excellent info, exactly what I was looking for n kinda what I imagined was the reasoning. Figures it would be you with a response so calculated, lol. Haven’t been on here in almost a year (or played DBD in about as long.. cozy hiatus:) and not sure if you were into him as much as GeneralV, LordGlint, or CountOfTheFog were, but it looks like you guys are finally getting your Freddy rework! Hope they make him as OP as he deserves to be, after all this time, but nowhere near as invincible as JVoorhees when they finally get around to adding him to the roster😆 …May be the only thing that ever gets me back into the fog🤷🏼♀️ Thanks for the reply🫶🏽
I'm happy to help. 😄 Sorry, if the explanation was a bit too technical.
I haven't mained Freddy for that long (only for the last couple months) but I think all of us just want this killer to be treated like the horror icon he is. He doesn't need to be overpowered or among the best killers. But the devs need to find a way to make him fun again. More than anything I hope that @GeneralV will get his favorite killer back.
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I am not familiar with Dress to Impress, so forgive me if I misunderstand the question and I only have limited expertise.
In terms of frames per second lag can be reduced by optimisation. This is achieved in various ways but it comes down to putting the least amount of necessary steps into a calculation or making it less complex. If we dive deep, everything that happens on a screen is determined by math. Similar to our brains, the processing unit can handle shorter algorithms much easier than longer ones. For example you could add a line of code that says that something should happen X amount of times instead of writing the algorithm X amount of times (this is just the most simple example I could come up with, not something that should be an issue). It is much easier to calculate 6×2 than 2+2+2+2+2+2, even though they are basically the same.
This can also be used to make animations more easily processable. If the Dress to Impress devs are still new, it is likely they still have some screws to tighten in that regard.
For server delays, I assume that DBD Mobile has better and more servers around the world than Dress to Impress. That means players have a higher chance to be physically close to the servers. Any information in the game would need to go from your device to the servers (and back, although that works a bit different), which causes some delay that can vary depending on the speed of your internet and the distance to the servers. DBD Mobile is likely to have servers with a higher capacity as well, which means that a higher amount of information can be managed simultaneously.
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- So what? A killer needs some kind of power. Being a M1 killer is not enough.
- Because otherwise he'd have absolutely nothing in chase and couldn't hit you after uncloaking. He slows himself down while he uncloaks and that distance is barely shorter than what he can cover with the increased movement speed and lunge. If the speed boost was removed he'd literally just screw himself by using his power in chase.
- Because the devs don't want killers to be countered by items, since that is very inconsistent. 4 flashlights could be a hard counter and no flashlights could mean that the killer would be at a huge advantage. It's better to balance a killer by their base kit and addons. Not to mention, Wraith was never strong enough for Lightburn to be necessary.
- Because his base kit isn't all that powerful. The weaker a killer is, the more powerful their addons can be without them becoming broken. Silent Bell is quite strong indeed but for the most part it's not an issue. You can still hear him coming because he makes some noise while cloaked. It's also possible to see his silhouette when he's cloaked. Gen auras are very good but honestly this isn't that much of a step up from an experienced killer. Most killers know what gens are worked on anyway, so this is not that big of a deal. It does come in handy but it's not like he'll know where everyone is at all times.
- Because otherwise you'd make it to the window / pallet before he can hit you, which would limit his power even more.
Wraith honestly isn't that strong. Once you learn to watch out for his silhouette and the sounds he makes while cloaked, he pretty much never catches you off guard and at that point you can mostly treat him like a pure M1 killer.
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841412#Comment_3841412
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841367#Comment_3841367
While OP is rather...blunt in his statement, let's elaborate. People don't mind the Mori per-say. Before this, Mori animations were liked (or at least tolerated) but now, with them happening in most matches, it got old really quick and now they're merely seen as "additional reason why the game won't end" instead of a cool cutscene that didn't happen often.
By hiding a Mori animation behind a 4k, it automatically incentivizes people to slug for the 4k...and we all know how fun and riveting it is. It's true that it happened before already, the Finisher Mori didn't create it, but the sheer number of threads talking about it since the Finisher Mori was introduced speaks for themselves of how it got worse.
We already hear it everywhere, Killers slugging the last 2 and then waiting for one to die (either by bleedout or simply standing over the last slug after hooking the 3rd, wasting minutes instead of ending the game in seconds even when there's hooks within spitting distance) just to Mori the last, is only making people hate those animations due to them encouraging such endgames and making the game even less casual/newcomer-friendly than it already is (as newcomers/low-mmr players will see their games end in a 4k more often).
There's a reason why the dreadful basekit Unbreakable was attempted alongside the previous Finisher Mori PTB: otherwise almost every single games would just end in a slugfest. Hell, during that PTB there were more bleedout slugfest games than normal even though people could get up because Killer players wanted that animation after killing the first 2 Survivors.
[Quite frankly, it wouldn't be that hard to keep the Finisher Mori but make it into something that rewards those that don't slug for the 4k and win the Hatch race without removing 4k slugging for those that merely want to secure the win: The Finisher Mori only becomes available if the last Survivor is on their feet (healthy or injured or Plot-Twisting, that last one is to prevent from trying to purposefully deny the Mori by using the perk right before the other dies) when the second-to-last Survivor dies by sacrifice, by unique Mori (NOT by bleedout) or escapes. Succeeding would grant extra BP for the extra steps.]
(There's threads about similar solutions)
The goal isn't to remove things, it's to make things healthier. Slugging for the 4k was already a common thing, but it wasn't as prevalent and Mori animations weren't seen as a chore. This same mindset applies to countless aspects of the game but this one is currently making a big impact but could be turned into something good.
I get that but I honestly do not see why killers that didn't slug for the 4k before would do so now. Are people really that desperate for the animation?
I can't say I have noticed an increase in slugging as a survivor either (although to be fair, I haven't played a whole lot lately). It just feels like everyone that used to slug still does so and the mori is wrongly considered an explanation as to why it happens.
@UndeddJester recently suggested changing the mori to only be available on the 3rd survivor, if the 4th is still up to disincentivise slugging. If people actually care that much about the mori, it would definitely help and if they don't, it won't do any harm.
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@doxylamine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841425#Comment_3841425
sorry for the quality and for the bad angle https://youtu.be/uwlZVePwhdU
Thanks. I watched it a few times at 0.25 times speed and it does look suspicious. Them not hitting the first time could happen, if they just missed (although I'm not sure how they would miss there, since that survivor did not 360) but that hit at window should have connected.
It was a medium vault and she was still in the animation. I don't think it's enougj evidence to conclude that the bot was cheating but it is weird.
The instances at 1:14 and 1:17 definitely show that something was off though. Both of these very clearly should have connected. I'd send it to BHVR. It is possible that it was a bug I don't know of any other instances like that and if the survivor was cheating before they disconnected I am honestly tempted to believe that.
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Can you upload the video on YouTube or something? It's a bit hard to determine what exactly was going on without seeing the match.
If I understand correctly you say, that not only the killer claimed the bot to be cheating. I am not quite sure, if that is even possible. It would depend on how exactly the bot and the cheats are done but considering that cheaters seem to be able to affect other players too, I wouldn't say it's impossible.
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Can someone explain to me what exactly the finisher mori has to do with these things?
Killers were doing that anyway because they wanted the 4k. I really don't see why everyone would be so hellbent on seeing the mori play out.
It's kind of nice for the first 1 or 2 games but after that, it really is nothing special anymore. Just a convenient way to end the match when it's over anyway.
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@ad19970 said:
I personally disagree. The buff to the hook timer was for good reason, a perk shouldn't counteract this buff completely.
They buffed it to combat camping. Monstrous Shrine already disincentivises that, so I really don't see any issue with buffing it back to the old time. It wasn't particularly strong even then.
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Say it with me: Anti-FACE-Camp.
This mechanic was never meant to combat proxy camping but stop killers from standing right next to the hook with the intention to make it impossible for survivors to unhook. That is a big difference.
You are arguing that the mechanic doesn't do what it's supposed to do but that is objectively wrong. It works perfectly fine. You don't see anymore face camping.
Whether or not proxy camping should be affected by this mechanic is a separate discussion. I don't think we need any more changes to camping as a whole but maybe specific killers (Myers, Bubba, Billy, Oni) should be looked at.
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Billy has had a spamable power for the last 2 years and it was never an issue. Even when overheat was still a factor, you just had to wait for the chainsaw to cool down a little before you tried again. Besides that, they toned overheat down to be completely obsolete. I only overheated when I played Driftking Billy, which is now weaker than ever (seriously, bad move BHVR).
The difference between Billy and other insta down killers is that you can dodge him fairly easy most of the time. I used to play against survivors, that would mind game and run wide to dodge. Now it seems like most players think of it as rocket science and just play in the most predictable way possible.
Overdrive is pretty much a non-factor at this point. I barely ever get to use it (takes forever to build up, which is good but dissipates very quickly, which is bad), so we are back to where the mechanic that is meant to add some complexity to the killer is basically obsolete. I cannot put into words how disappointed I am with that. I would have much rather had overdrive go up even slower but build up a bunch when you hit a survivor and pause when you carry them (just to make slugging less of an obvious choice). The reduced overdrive speed feels terrible to me as well. We are back at a point where in many situations survivors feel the illusion of a threat, while the Billy player knows that there is absolutely no way for them to get that hit, if the survivor doesn't play horribly bad.
That was what really rubbed me the wrong way with him. It always looks so close but in the back of your head you know for a fact that there is nothing you can do either way.
Oni has the advantage that he can flick at the end of a rush. That fundamentally changes the way his power can be used. I find him to be more fun than Billy at the moment. It might have something to do with me still learning Oni, which is always something provides fun for me but in many situations I prefer to play him over Billy, who has been my main for over 2 years (almost 3 years by now).
When it comes to skill expression, Billy's skill floor definitely has been reduced with the more forgiving cooldowns. This was necessary because the penalty for a missed chainsaw was excruciating. Right after the PTB, when they increased the curve time to 1.0 seconds, his skill ceiling was arguably at the highest point (except maybe for that glitch that existed where he could turn at the end of a curve and still hit a survivor). I honestly liked that. You had to learn how to manage overdrive and the extra speed made curving even harder. Now he just feels watered down. His skill ceiling was reduced again (not a good decision) and that made him feel a lot less fun to me.
I fully recognise that I am biased (how could I not after putting more 1000+ hours into this killer?) but I just want him to get back that extra skill ceiling (and Driftking Billy!) and feel fun again. If there need to be more nerfs to balance that out, then so be it. I have always been of the opinion that killers should have a relatively low skill floor, so that players can get into it and a high skill ceiling, so that players can hone their skills and show off a little (we all know how good that feels).
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5/7. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day has been ruined.
I forgot that Legion had their movement speed changed as well and I never knew that adepts used to work differently. Somehow I got question 8 right but with the wrong characters. 😅
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Is that really such a big surprise? It was obvious that this would happen. Slugging doesn't have the inherent risk of a flashlight / pallet save and it saves time. Even if it's just a few seconds, it's still more efficient.
Not to mention that killers are punished for hooking too fast because survivors get extra gen speed. I feel like it was never a question if this would happen but only to what degree.
The devs really didn't think this through. It's a shame really. This will be a learning opportunity though, so maybe 2v8 3.0 will be better in that regard.
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@indieeden7 said:
I mean, killers aren't FORCED to always use their power. If a survivor keeps crouch teching you, you should probably just go for an M1. A big part of this game is learning how to make the better choice in a certain scenario. Hence why killers like Huntress or Hillbilly even have the option to M1 in the first place.
What's the point in playing that killer, if I am not going to use their power?
I don't play Billy or Demogorgon just to be a M1 killer in chase. There are tons of other killers that are designed around that idea.
Not to mention, that people put a lot of effort into learning a killer's power and getting better with it so they don't need to play M1 killer as much. Because M1 killers are pretty weak in chase.
There is no way to justify the existence of crouch tech.
@indieeden7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838923#Comment_3838923
If crouch teching is so punishing for those killers and nullifies their powers to a borderline broken degree, how on earth are Billy and Blight considered some of the best killers in the game? Surely if it's so easy to counter their powers, they should barely be getting any kills. Because it's not like people don't know about crouch teching.
Same reason Nurse has a relatively low kill rate. People are bad at the game. There are more people that don't know how to use crouch tech. A lot more. So they either don't do it to begin with or they just crouch randomly and give the killer a free hit.
A while ago, I played against someone that wanted to report me because he crouched in front of me and I just back revved him. He was sure I would be unable to hit him and gave me a free down.
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@ClockworkJink said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839033#Comment_3839033
Killers have Chucky perk they don't need #########.
Are you talking about Friends Til The End, Batteries Included or Hex: Two Can Play?
Hex: Two Can Play is a meme perk.
Batteries Included is nice to have but not very consistent (it also requires you to go to a part of the map, that you generally don't want to be in).
Friends Til The End isn't very good either. It's only useful on killers with high mobility anyway (otherwise, you'd use BBQ and get better value) and even then you would need to get a quick M1 on that survivor or else it's a worse BBQ again. Also, Friends Til The End warns you that that it's in play. So you know the killer's position and you also know that they will try to go for you next. That's a lot more than could be said for CoH.
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@Coz said:
never should be the correct answer.
I’m an over 50 gamer. I still have fun and hope that anyone playing against me has fun too!
You should behave like one of these stereotypical seniors that always get angry at those pesky kids. It would be glorius.
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There is no "too old". Everyone is allowed to have hobbies and if gaming is yours, then why should it matter how old you are?
Obviously gaming shouldn't be the only thing in your life but as a way to relax and have some fun I see absolutely no way that you could be considered "too old" for it.
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@ratcoffee said:
The downside of scream + exposed is terrible
- Lets a tunneling killer know you have it
- Gives them tools to punish you for using it
- Prevents you from taking a hit if killer returns
- Even if killer is not paying attention, if they're tunneling they're likely to return, punishing you for using the perk correctly.
IMO the loss of a hook state is enough of a downside to using the perk. If you somehow need more than that, come up with a different downside, for example, after getting 16 meters away from the unhooked survivor, reveal your aura to the killer for [x] seconds
Trading a hook stage can be of insane value. To give it a downside would not be unwarranted. But making it aura instead of exposed is not a good idea. With all the complaints about aura reading that would not be appreciated.
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At this point I want them to remove the mori again just to see the meltdown when people realise that killers still slug for the 4k.
This was a thing before the finisher mori and unless they make some drastic changes it will remain a thing.
The killer has no reason to hook the 3rd survivor and risk the other getting hatch. None at all. You don't get more BP (you might actually get less, if that survivor escapes), you don't pip more and if your opponents are dicks, they'll flame you regardless.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3833617#Comment_3833617
The power creep on aura perks has been steadily increasing over several years now. Distortion was likely the only thing holding them back, so there will probably be a number of changes and nerfs needed to aura reading. The game isn't designed for the killer to know where survivors are at all times.
While I appreciate that your instinct is that this will help the killer spread pressure (it might for some players) that's certainly not the play style we see dominate in the actual game.
What is also certain to happen is that killers know they can burn through tokens and continue tunneling one person while knowing where everyone else is. They can camp the hook knowing where everyone is and how they will probably approach for rescue.
A new excuse for camping and tunneling is now "but I'm just playing around distortion by not allowing their tokens to recharge". Not that those people need an excuse, but some people will justify anything.
The game isn't designed for the killer to know where survivors are at all times.
That's true and that's also why aura perks in general have a limited activation time and a condition to be activated. Let's be honest BBQ, Lethal Pursuer, Eruption, Nurse's Calling, Alien Instinct, Awakened Awareness, Blood Warden, Darkness Revealed, Gearhead and Floods of Rage do not affect you in chase. There are clear activation requirements and no matter how the game goes, these will not reveal you "at all times".
The way I see it, aura vision helps finding a survivor and getting into the next chase or giving you a helping hand in chase (like with I'm All Ears). They don't do both. The only perk that I can think of that would randomly reveal your aura is Undying and if that's the issue, then I guess we'll have to get rid of that. Not that it would be a big loss anyway.
What is also certain to happen is that killers know they can burn through tokens and continue tunneling one person while knowing where everyone else is.
The only perk that can even hope to achieve something like that is BBQ and that has been around for longer than 90% of us have played. It was never an issue before. The only people that really struggled with BBQ are typically newer players because they obviously suck in chase. But even then it's good that this perk exists because it means that excessive hiding won't work and these people won't get very far without learning how to loop.
A new excuse for camping and tunneling is now "but I'm just playing around distortion by not allowing their tokens to recharge". Not that those people need an excuse, but some people will justify anything.
Distortion had absolutely no impact on tunneling and camping. A killer that tunnels you doesn't need to see your aura and it's the same with camping. So the Distortion nerf has no impact on this. Also, if it really was about tunneling then why would you use Distortion and not OTR? It's undeniably a better anti tunnel perk.
@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3833617#Comment_3833617
Auras work the other way too; i may be nice one moment, but if an aura shows me somebody worth tunneling or camping I'll drop the chase I'm currently in to remove that poor aura from the game.
If you are going to tunnel deliberately, you'll do that regardless of what perks your opponent uses. Distortion doesn't stop anyone from tunneling. It never did. If I want to tunnel you out of the game, the only thing I need is the unhook notification, which is not affected by Distortion. Even then, there is another perk that would protect you way better and it's called Off The Record.
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You have 2 different powers. Red and green vomit.
With the green vomit you can infect everything that a survivor can interact with. Totems, pallets (no matter, if they're dropped or still up), vaults, gens and even lockers. If a survivor interacts with these, they get infected. You can also infect them by using the green vomit directly on them. Infected survivors spread infection by interacting with the map (e.g. repairing a gen). If a survivor is on the hook and you haven't infected them yet, puke on them to get them infected. You can't get it to 100% but that way you won't have to do it later on and there is a chance they will also infect the unhooker.
Infection: This is a bit more complicated. You can read about the specifics here.
In general, you can earn a lot of Deviousness points by just puking on everything. If it exists, you can probably puke on it and that will already reward you quite a few points.
You can also try to continuously vomit on a survivor in chase to get more points and get them fully infected sooner but that only works when they are either bottlenecked or not looking behind them.
Most survivors are not very comfortable staying injured the entire time, so they will use your fountains to get rid of the infection, which turns them into red fountains. Try to stop them from overcleansing by using red fountains regularly. Otherwise it's reset to only 1 fountain being corrupted and you getting red puke when may not even need it.
Red puke gives you more BP on hit but it doesn't apply infection. You can try and force survivors to cleanse by proxy camping. They will not get that survivor off the hook, if they are broken themself.
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I will never understand how this is so horrible for solo queue. You can't hide the entire game so the killer might actually find you and hook you instead of your teammates.
How is that bad? The less targets the killer can find the less they will spread hooks.
Aura perks are not the reason you die. It's the fact, that you rely on a perk to not get found in the first place. Learn how to delay a killer in chase. That's a gamechanger.
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Billy: You have map mobility, use it.
Not just to defend gens but also when a survivor runs to a strong set up. Often it's better to switch targets.
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@SuspiciousBrownie said:
Probably because it might be difficult to balance it. Strong enough to be worthy of being a Scourge Hook Perk but weak enough to not be overpowered and end up getting nerfed 20 times.
I came up with one where after a survivors spends 20 seconds on a Scourge Hook one of their perks change at random. That would be dope.
I call it, Scourge Hook : Pointless Choices
Okay, I want that perk. If only for the chance to give a survivor that keeps bming me No Mither.
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@jajay119 said:
maps are smaller now and the trend is continuing. Gens are generally closer together. They don’t need a buff.
Both of these perks are worthless. OC is quite literally worse than nothing when survivors hit the skill check, which many do, and CoB is a better info perk than a slowdown perk. Not that the info perk is any good.
They definitely do need some changes. Either buffs or reworks.
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Corrupt, Deadlock, Grim Embrace and either Pain Res or Surge. That's pretty much the heaviest slowdown you can achieve.
Although, in my experiece it is more effective to use something more balanced that will help you in different situations. Like 1-2 slowdown perks, 1-2 info perks and maybe a chase perk.
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Let's not do that. Survivors need something to work with.
Small maps in general mean, that the killer is likely going to put more pressure on the survivors since they can easily chase them into each other or switch targets. They also have a much smaller area to patrol, which means that the time spent out of chase is going to be very little.
To counter balance that, survivors need more resources to delay the killer with.
Maps with very few resources allow for less chase time for survivors, which allows the killer to create more kill pressure.
This needs to be balanced with the map being larger, so that survivors have more room to avoid the killer and delay them that way.
Unfortunately, the sweetspot is very hard to nail and we see that with many maps that either do both in favor of survivors or killers. Hell, even when they do it right in theory it can still result in maps like The Game, that are bad for both sides.
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Then the counterplay would be to slug the last 3 survivors. That's harder than only 2 but if hatch spawned with 2 survivors still alive it would be close to impossible to get a 4k without slugging the remaining 3.
How long does it take a survivor to find the hatch? I'd say anywhere from 10 to 60 seconds is somewhat realistic. Try killing both survivors in that time. That's more than a little optimistic, so the hatch would pretty much guarantee an escape. At that point many killer players would feel robbed and double down on slugging.
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@Lixadonna said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830911#Comment_3830911
When Killer Mains see the term "Dead Zone" and assume the complaint is about Pallets. 🤡
To be fair, that's what the term dead zone usually means. I am really not sure how a room with only one entrance would be considered a dead zone in any sense of the word. That was an unfortunate choice of words on op's part.
If I was to complain about a Xenomorph tunneling me, I wouldn't be talking about their literal tunnels either, would I? The term simply has a different meaning when applied to DBD.
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"Oh, you got Lethal Pursuer? Better spin around and memorise all survivor positions in 2 seconds. I'm All Ears? How about we tell you that that survivor recently vaulted a pallet / window?"
You see where this is going? You barely have a chance to even find an aura in 2 seconds, let alone get any value out of it. That's an absolutely terrible change.
The killer doesn't see you permanently and outside of chase a 5 seconds aura reveal really doesn't hurt you. It ensures that the killer has time to find your aura and react to it but not much more.
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Well, that ended quickly. But just to maybe kick it off again:
Ace Visconti.
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Exactly. You form a deep emotional bond, look into their eyes, get to know the ins and outs about their soul and emotionally prepare to become their best man / bridesmaid. At that point you just can't kill them anymore.
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"If you play in a way that I don't like, you should be banned."
Let's make such a list for survivors as well and then we can all enjoy getting banned together.
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"Killers should be scared to play the game." Sorry, but that won't go over well.
If a killer constantly has to second guess everything they do because some kind of base kit mechanic will punish them for it, that ultimately leads to people not playing killer anymore. Think about it. We have something for 3gens and camping, we are discussing a solution for slugging and tunneling is discussed about just as much.
If you are forced to play nice, survivors can and will abuse it because it grants them an advantage.
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Nurse at the top, Freddy at the bottom. Everything else is... a mess.
I remember a few years back most of us had a pretty similar idea of where to rank each killer but now it's pure chaos.
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Completely objective and not at all biased.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830181#Comment_3830181
you can get a 200 winstreak with any killer mainly because most survivors are not good at the game. win streaks dont really prove that the killer is good, it just proves that the player is good. she was a mouse 1 killer with 100 sec teleport cooldown and was only somewhat decent with iridescent videotape. good players were able to easily counter that strategy.
It proves that the killer can perform well. Consistently. I mean, you don't see anyone trying a win streak on Freddy at the moment, do you? And that would be pretty fun and impressive since he is considered to be one of, if not the weakest killer in the game.
But I digress. Someone who is considered to be high MMR (and if he could beat Team Eternal, if only once, it's pretty safe to say that he is in high MMR) should go against survivors that are pretty good at the game as well. Not every single game but in 200+ games I find it hard to believe that he only faced potatoes.
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6.31 heals per match sounds surprisingly low and with the amount of medkits I see I am kind of curious how survivors at a different MMR play, if there is only an average of 1.72 self-heals per match.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830228#Comment_3830228
You kinda did completely disregard the qualifying statement. If you tell someone to "tough it out" you already acknowledge that they have a miserable experience - otherwise you wouldn't tell them to tough it out, you'd tell them to not be petty about a minor thing. Demanding people that you know are having a miserable experience stick around and endure said miserable experience for your entertainment is something I believe is pretty low.
Not really. To tough it out can also mean, that someone shouldn't just leave at the earliest inconvenience, which is the actual problem.
We are not talking about something like a 3gen Merchant (thank god that's gone!) but about small things that you may not like but can and will happen.
Nobody is upset about a survivor hook suiciding when the match is over anyway or when the killer is really going out of their way to be a dick. But even if that was the main cause of rage quits, you should not queue up, if you are going to rage quit anyway.
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@Halloulle said:
well, if people have to "tough it out" then they actually do have a pretty good reason to want to be in a different match sooner rather than later. In that case the side making them have to tough it out already stated "your fun is not my responsibility" through their actions. And well, that kinda statement is a two way street.
Short list of reasons why some survivors hook suicide / dc (there is one for killers as well):
- Oh no, I was found first.
- Oh no, X pallet is gone.
- Oh no, my teammate went down quick (and that can mean everything from only a few seconds to literal minutes).
- Oh no, my teammate triggered X perk.
- Oh no, my teammate uses X perk.
- I failed a skill check.
- My teammate failed a skill check.
- I tried to greed the gen but was grabbed.
- The killer tunnels.
- The killer camps.
- The killer slugs.
- The killer uses X perk.
- The killer uses Y addon.
- The killer uses Z skin (not kidding, that has happened to me before).
- It's XYZ killer.
- It isn't XYZ killer (yes, I have seen people hook suicide because it wasn't whatever new killer came out).
- It's a map I don't like.
- It's map variation I don't like even though I brought the map offering.
- Someone else brought a map offering.
- I ran into the killer and they hooked me again.
- I sat on a gen right next to the killer and they hooked me again.
- My teammate failed a flashlight / pallet save.
- The killer outplayed Head On.
- The killer mind gamed me.
- I am hooked in the basement (this happens even when I play pallet Freddy).
- The killer interrupted my heal / boon / totem cleansing.
- The killer found me even though I went into a locker / was hiding behind a rock.
- The killer is playing hit and run.
- The killer drops chase.
- The killer doesn't drop chase.
There are at least 50 more points but I think you get the idea. Some people rage quit at the earliest inconvenience. The killer is supposed to be an obstacle, so they will inconvenience you.
If these people genuinely don't want to play the game, then they shouldn't queue up. We all know that these things can happen and we comply every time we load into a match (as long as it's not strictly against the rules). Is it really too much to ask for you to play the game you queued up for?
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If a killer wanted you dead, they could have slugged you for 4 minutes and bleed you out. So you wouldn't wiggle out anyway.
The only situation that is somewhat realistic is that you are crawling out an exit gate and the killer is physically unable to carry you to a hook because there are no hooks around. In which case, was that fair to begin with? You went down and the killer could pick you up, so technically you lost and rng bailed you out.
Don't get me wrong, if they removed the finisher, I wouldn't be too upset but it's not like your escape rate will noticeably change.
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Yes to both of them.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829611#Comment_3829611
gotta disagree: she was trash against good players, evident as when onepumpwillie went against an actual good team and got annihilated (even on midwich, a great map for her).
He also had a 200+ win streak on her iirc. Old Sadako was definitely not trash.
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Nah. Finesse is a perfectly fine perk. There is zero reason to nerf it.
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I agree with @Halloulle. Incentives alone are not enough because they would need to be so strong that the game would become just as if not more insufferable than if the killer was hard tunneling.
The same is true for penalties. Punish a killer so much, that they won't consider tunneling a possibility and it becomes abusable to ruin their game either way. We already see people with DS forcing themself on the killer.
It needs some of both. Incentives to make it more convenient and viable to spread hooks and penalties to reduce the effectiveness of tunneling. The devs already tried their hands at designing killer perks that disincentivise tunneling and reward spreading hooks but they removed it from Ruin and if my build doesn't revolve around Pain Res, I suddenly have no reason to spread hooks anymore.
However, I think tunneling should always remain a viable yet situational play style. Otherwise the killer would lose even more of their ability to capitalise on survivor mistakes. If a survivor was to sit on a gen right next to them, then they absolutely should not be protected by the game.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828527#Comment_3828527
tape + drawing only worked against potatoes
Not true. It was quite effective even against really good players. She wasn't unbeatable but more than the biggest part of the playerbase could handle.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828822#Comment_3828822
The thing about TL walls is that as an M1 killer you have counterplay. Again, assuming no exhaustion or tile chaining it only takes 1 vault before you are in a position to mindgame. An insane survivor can get guaranteed no counterplay value at low ping on shack/gyms with checkspots, there are no safe checkspots on TL walls. I'd much rather chase someone there where I have opportunities to cut the chase short.
True. I consider TL walls to be fair because both sides have lots of skill expression and chances to mind game. A really cracked survivor however will still take forever to hit and you will have at least one window blocked before that. At a certain point, your plays as a killer lose meaning because no matter what you do, it will not result in a better outcome anyway.
The reason I can accept that for TL walls is because it's incredibly hard while other tiles have the aforementioned check spots that allow you to react to whatever the killer does. That's not that hard and the main reason you can still hit some survivors around these is that they either have no clue about that or they are so overconfident that they don't properly adjust to what you do.
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Yes! Yes! Give me chaos! Pure unpredictable chaos! Too stupid and fun to be optimised but harmless enough to have a good laugh.
I'm not sure, if they can do that with licensed characters though.
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@GeneralV said:
Reverting DS back to 5 seconds would be a good start. There needs to be some counter to tunneling otherwise it spirals out of control.
I'm not even sure 5 seconds would be enough at this point.
I think something that might help as well is having more killer perks that actively encourage spreading hooks similar to old BBQ and Pain Res. They could even go as far as to add that old Ruin downside that the perk deactivates once a survivor is dead and can no longer be used (I still think they should have kept that and buffed Ruin's regression speed back to 200%).