Xernoton
Xernoton
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Kill rates are not a good indicator of strength. That is partially because MMR aims to put killers in a place where they can maintain a 60% kill rate no matter how strong or weak their killer is.
This also explains why every time a killer is buffed or nerfed, there is an immediate difference in their kill rate that ceases after some time. Only when kill rates remain consistently high or low for an extended period of time, do you even have a chance to draw some conclusion on the killer's strength from it.
The second problem is, that there are killers that are objectively more powerful than others, yet maintain a lower kill rate. Like Nurse. Meaning, while kill rates and killer strength generally have some correlation it is not as linear as "This killer has a high kill rate, so they are overpowered." or "This killer has a low kill rate, so they are weak."
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WoO. If that survivor wants their game to run on autopilot, good for them but why does mine have to be the same? There is no fun in chasing a survivor infected with Windows brain. They just run to yellow and press space occasionally and your counterplay as a killer is equally boring.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823785#Comment_3823785
It's not debatable. It's a free time waster, and chase extender, with no earning requirement. It needs an earning requirement.
The fact that in a lot of cases, experiments have shown that survivors without exhaustion are not only better loopers overall with better pathing, but in turn they have shorter chases, speaks for itself.
Free? It comes at the cost of a perk slot, so that already makes it not free. The game is also balanced around exhaustion perks.
That second part is heavily influenced by confirmation bias. What you actually compare is an experienced player that is confident in their ability to loop even without an exhaustion perk and a mediocre or maybe even bad player that simply hasn't learned looping yet and needs to rely on these perks to help them out while they are still in the process of learning.
If you were to put a pro player with no perks next to a beginner with the best perks in the game, the pro would still outperform them. Does that mean, that the perks need changes? No. It just means, that skill is more important factor than perks.
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No. I think exhaustion is perfectly fine as is. Whether or not exhaustion perks could use a change is debatable.
I for example would quite like it if there was a perk that allowed one survivor to take another's exhaustion on themself. Could be really good against a tunneling killer but might end up getting abused by SWFs.
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@MaddieMage said:
Unfortunately the last two survivors hiding is a result of the constant “slugging for the 4K” playstyle. They don’t wanna come out and do gens or even help the other person when they know killers are just gonna slug one and then likely camp the slugged survivor to get the 4th down. It’s understandable that they’re just like “hide it out as long as possible so maybe one of us has a shot at hatch.”
By punishing this, it basically send the message that the game is over when 2 people are left, which will result in more DCs and giving up on hooks.
This is how certain playstyles create counter playstyles that create counter playstyles etc.
Unfortunately the last two survivors hiding is a result of the constant "slugging for the 4k" playstyle.
It's really not. The last 2 survivors hiding is a result of the hatch allowing exactly one survivor to escape.
The 2 remaining survivors know that they have pretty bad chances of finishing the gens and getting out, so at least one of them will die. But both want to survive. So they will hide in the hopes that their teammate is killed before them, so that they have a chance to get the hatch.
If the killer has eliminated 2 survivors with gens remaining, then they have pretty much won already. They can't lose anymore and it's very unlikely they won't get another kill. Meaning, the game is over anyway and it only remains to be decided if the game will end in a 4k or a 3k.
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If the killer is not in chase for X amount of time (consecutively, not over the entirety of the game), one survivor with the least hook stages is revealed via killer instinct until the killer either, hits a survivor or starts a chase.
Make it 5 minutes and that ensures, that it won't interfere with normal games.
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As long as the downed survivor has some autonomy over it, I think this could be fun. It just wouldn't sit right with me, if it could be used to grief your teammates.
Walking speed is also quite fast for something like this. It should be something in between walking and crawling speed.
I'm not sure how this would work with Pig's power though. If the bleedout timer is put on hold and the trap timer also wouldn't progress, then this would technically come as a nerf to her. Also, an active trap prevents you from leaving through the gates, so if you were able to bypass that by carrying your teammate out, it would also be a nerf.
Another issue I see is that this would not work very well with some killers' powers. M1 killers would have a hard time countering this because they could only interrupt this by hitting that other survivor while killers like Trickster or Pinhead could interrupt it by using their powers.
There are a lot of things that could make or break such a mechanic, so it's a fun idea but probably not very realistic as an actual addition to the game.
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There are douzens of things both sides are not "allowed" to do, if we go by some very entitled players.
For killers it's things like camping, tunneling, slugging, using meta perks and addons as well as map offerings, using the killer's power in an efficient way and even mindgaming.
For survivors it's things like gen rushing, teabagging, pre dropping, using meta perks and items as well as map offerings, looping (according to some people that's also toxic), playing in a SWF and hiding in any way.
Play in a way you wouldn't mind others to play against you, if the roles were reversed and follow the rules. If people still don't like that, then that's their problem.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817995#Comment_3817995
He didn't complain about players who "ignore everything else, bring specific perks and items and stop healing to push out gens as fast as possible" or any other concretely defined and specific version of gen rushing, though, he complained about "gens get done too fast." If you truly oppose Us vs Them to the extent you claim to, I highly suggest you examine why you immediately assumed the most charitable interpretation of what the person favoring only the Killer experience said, to the point where you entirely rewrote what they said, but you took exception to and actively opposed what the person who was also considering the survivor experience in addition to killer gameplay. I certainly hope you saw what you thought was the aesthetic of Us vs Them in my post and responded to that without stopping to properly read the thread (let's be honest, we all do it, and given the length of the thread that's a perfectly valid excuse) because if not, well...
"You said, that killers in general are opposed to the idea of survivors playing at all. How is that not the most one-sided and unreflected take one can have? That was 100% Us vs. Them, let's not fool ourselves here. It's not the aesthetic but the very definition of Us vs. Them.
The reason why I assumed that they meant gen rush is because "gens popping fast" is used synomously for gen rush. So the worst you can accuse me of is assuming, that @drsoontm and me are on the same page when it comes to what gen rush means. That is in no way anywhere near anything that could be considered a one-sided take.
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Deadlock: A perk this powerful shouldn't activate without input by the killer.
DH: I still hate it and would be glad to never see this perk again.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819778#Comment_3819778
Is Flashbang bugged (the sound)? I played against someone with it this morning and heard the click before the explosion. They didn’t pull it off either. Lol
Yeah. It's sound occlusion. Whenever there is an object between the killer and the flashbang while it's dropped you can pretty much guarantee it will be silent. Sometimes it's even silent when it's dropped right in front of the killer.
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@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816790#Comment_3816790
Personally I dont play killer because its too easy. It plays itself and I get bored after just a few matches. Survivor offers an actual challenge and this comment just confirms my belief that those who play killer only do because they can't handle survivor.
You do realise, that after learning one side you already have a pretty good understanding of the game and the other's general strengths and weaknesses, right? Now what do you think will happen when you apply all of this while playing against complete beginners?
It's gonna be a blood bath. If you don't play killer, your MMR will be quite low, which means that this is exactly what happens. Of course it will feel like a breeze.
I play solo survivor too and for me it's less of a challenge than killer. Not because I win so often but because even if I do well, there are 3 other people that can lose the match for me. So saying that survivor is overall harder than killer makes little sense at least in solo queue. Even if you are the best survivor of all time, you cannot win a 1v1 against the killer, so that cannot be the metric for difficulty.
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You call this the Minor Inconvenience Build?
I'm scared to find out what would be the Major Inconvenience Build.
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Flashbangs are mostly fine. The only things they need to do is deal with sound occlusion, so that the killer can actually hear the sound of a flashbang being dropped and the glitch that allows survivors to plant a flashbang inside of the killer. Both are bugs.
WGLF is fine. I honestly have no issue with it.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819240#Comment_3819240
the killer will not chase any survivors. they'll use an aura perk like nowhere to hide and just kick gens until they find person on death hook or closer to hook. it does make sense if you play killer efficiently. distortion would allow survivor to hide themselves from aura perks so that they are not chased.
Nowhere To Hide doesn't kill anyone. Neither do any number of aura perks. That's still the killer.
You could have all aura perks at once and what you said still wouldn't make sense. If the killer doesn't chase anyone, then what good are aura perks to them?
Nobody runs around the map aimlessly in the hopes of finding that survivor that was recently unhooked. That wastes way too much time. If you want to tunnel, you will either get back to where they were unhooked or you don't leave to begin with. Either way, you do not need an aura perk to find that survivor.
If they heal, you'll catch them before they're done unless they have We'll Make It and even then you still see their scratch marks. If they don't heal, you see the pools of blood and scratch marks. It's not hard to track that survivor down. No killer in the history of this game has ever stopped tunneling because a survivor had Distortion.
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@WW1PilotAce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817189#Comment_3817189
experience to communicate? even a simple i am gonna go to rescue is massive its the same as having a fifth perk
And basic human deduction won't do? If one survivor lets go of their gen and is not chased by the killer there are only so many things they'd do and with 70 seconds hook stages it's not like you need to rush for the unhook.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818398#Comment_3818398
i believe dev exclusively said in interview that it was nerfed because 1 perk was making aura perks provide no value for no effort. don't think they mention hiding anywhere. It is pretty much free buff to tunneling.
How did Distortion protect you from tunneling? If you are unhooked, the killer doesn't need to see your aura to tunnel you since you're injured anyway. Also OTR would be a better choice if we are talking anti tunnel perks.
This makes zero sense.
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Exactly as I predicted. They nerfed her but didn't address what actually made her unfun. Now she is terrible for both sides and the issue that caused the nerfs is still there.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818691#Comment_3818691
he's somehow canceling vault animation of scamper and than using bounce from vaulting backwards to glide along the wall. it is like that bug that legion used to have in feral frenzy where you could vault a window and then double vault back a window. he is doing that but with chucky's scamper. bug seems to somewhat bugging out his turning rate after he performs the exploit.
that's pretty crazy. I have never seen that. pretty funny that scamper is only useful when the player has to exploits and glitches to make it relevant.
Ahh, I see. Well, that should probably be fixed. Although I must say, it's nice seeing a Chucky do actual flicks again.
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If moris weren't a thing, all of this would still apply. The last survivor is dead anyway, if they are found and downed by the killer. The mori doesn't change that. Without the mori the killer would simply hook you and you'd still die.
It isn't a free kill either. The killer first has to kill the other 3 survivors for this to happen, which is already a win and then they need to find and down the last survivor before they can get the hatch.
Slugging for the 4k was already a thing. Killers who really cared about that would already go out of their way to do that. After seeing the animation a few times, it's a neat little extra but not worth the inconvenience to slug everyone, if you weren't going to do that anyway, so I highly doubt that this leads to more slugging.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818709#Comment_3818709
It wouldn't kill it any harder than SWFs already do, while giving SoloQ a more reasonable counterplay against it. If not being able to stomp uncoordinated solo players would kill the perk then maybe it should be killed. But I think it would remain completely fine, because getting survivors off gens to cleanse more totems is still a valuable amount of slowdown.
Pentimento is pretty bad against SWFs but it has at least the benefit that survivors, who don't pay attention will still have to look for the totem again.
I see your point that it shouldn't destroy solo survivors when it does little against more coordinated teams but do we really need another dead perk? We have so many of these already. If it can't stay this way then I'd much rather see it reworked into something different than it becoming a waste of a perk slot.
Pentimento is pretty bad without Plaything already because it's 1 less perk for the killer whenever they get to activate Pentimento and it requires you to run multiple other hex perks. With Plaything though this perk can become pretty nasty. Penti is honestly in a weird spot, where it isn't good in general (even against solos) but it excells in one specific combination.
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@Gardhome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818093#Comment_3818093
Whats wrong with shadowborn? Survivors mostly love going against Dredge and his nightfall far more darker (of course perk shoudnt stuck with nightfall)
From what I've read it's the opposite. Many people hate playing againsr Dredge's nightfall because they experience eye strain and have trouble finding their way around the map.
Personally, I think Dredge's nightfall is fine because Dredge glows like a fire fly and I know my way around maps pretty much blindfolded anyway. But I can see how that would be hard for beginners.
Designing a perk around that concept is probably not a good idea.
With that said, the other perks sound good for the most part. Beast of Prey would still remain pretty bad though. It would only work in a hit and run build because otherwise you would chase after them anyway after you hit them and even then it's not very good. I also don't love the idea of Bloodhound.
Bloodlust is a mechanic that's supposed to ensure the killer will get something out of a chase, if they invest enough time and reducing the timer would become a bit of a pitfall for beginners because they would get into the habit of relying on Bloodlust instead of their killer's power, which goes against its purpose.
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Wouldn't that immediately kill the perk though? Pentimento is already such a wild card because a survivor can easily remember where they destroyed a totem and showing the aura would simply remove any point in running it. Basically you would reduce Pentimento's value to: "Get a survivor off their gen to destroy the totem a second time."
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This is a 4v1 game. As in 4 survivors vs. 1 killer. That puts the survivors at a significant advantage from the get go. So of course the killer needs to have the upper hand in other situations to balance that out.
In case of DBD that is the chase. Killers move faster (which is 100% necessary and can never change) and survivors have resources like pallets and windows that they can use to delay the killer. Your vault speed as a survivor is a lot faster than the killer's and killers (except Legion, Wesker and Chucky) can't vault pallets. If killers didn't have the upper hand in chase, nothing in this game would work.
The reason killers have powers and survivors don't comes to down to the same reason. The killer cannot simply play a collection of 1v1s but they have to compete in the 4v1. Their power, combined with the speed advantage, is supposed to even the odds.
Each killer has a different power and different counterplay. Ranged killers in general don't care as much about pallets but that doesn't mean that pallets are useless or you can't win against them. You can effectively make the loop a lot longer for the killer by dropping a pallet early and vaulting it. The killer won't be able to follow you and because they can't hit you through objects, their ranged power becomes a lot weaker.
It seems like you do not understand the very basics of the game yet and are frustrated as a result. Give it a bit more time, play killer yourself (playing both sides teaches you a lot more about the game than only playing one side), read up on what different killer powers actually do, watch YouTube content about the game or ask for help learning on the forums and you'll soon get the hang of it.
Good luck and see you in the fog.
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I'm confused. How does that even work? They hard capped his turning last time I checked, so I genuinely have no clue what is even going on.
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Finally. The Knight buff we needed.
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@CursedPerson said:
Yeah all the changes have made killer the better role. There's a higher ratio of killers now. It's not coming back anytime soon and que times will be really long during events
This has been since the Haunted By Daylight event and killers have only been nerfed since. So that makes little sense.
Also, the curious thing is that the killer queue times are still extremely short during the night.
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Not gonna lie, I will probably have nightmares about the last one...
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I wasn't around when Freddy was reworked into what we know now, so I'm not quite sure.
On one hand what he said about hoping that more people will like the rework than people hate the rework gives me hope that they will indeed go back to the roots because this has been a pretty common request on the forums. So a lot of people would probably like that.
On the other hand, there was a reason they reworked Freddy at the time. Now, whether that was a good or bad reason, I will not judge. So there is a chance that they will go into a different direction altogether.
What I hope for is that they will give us a more modernised version of pre rework Freddy. The idea that you have to pull survivors into the dream world manually is nice but of course this also came with problems at the time that can mostly be fixed with the implementation of the incapacitated status effect. However, I also like his teleport and the idea that you are rewarded for pressuring the entire team (even though it doesn't really work that way currently).
As far as I know, old Freddy had literally nothing in chase though. I don't think this holds up very well in modern day DBD. So he would need at least some kind of chase ability. Out of the 37 killers in this game literally every single one has something in chase.
The idea of survivors waking themselves up by failing skill checks never sat right with me either and if you have to pull people into the dream world manually, then this might not be a great idea. On the other hand, the alarm clocks couldn't grant you immunity to sleep anymore, so this could maybe end up a bit too oppressive.
Either way, it can't get much worse than what we have now. Even if they tried to nerf him again, it would be kind of hard to find something that would actually affect him still. His addons are terrible, his power is controlled by the survivors and he counters himself most of the time.
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@SoGo said:
You can do that?
I didn't know that either. 😳
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I used to love playing as and against Doctor but after his latest buffs he just feels a little cheap to me.
But overall my disdain for Skull Merchant is greater. It's the most boring power design and the counterplay, which is quite limited, isn't fun either.
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I honestly think there is no salvaging her current power. The drones are simply boring because you set them in a loop and the survivor is screwed.
Small adjustments won't fix her core issues. She is a genuinely uninteractive killer, so she needs a pretty major rework.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817944#Comment_3817944
The difference is that the survivor complaints are about play styles where people engage in the minimum possible number of gameplay mechanics and the killer complaints are that survivors are not choosing to completely ignore their win con, hope this helps.
Again, you ignore the actual point. Gen rush is a play style as well. It means that you ignore everything else, bring specific perks and items and stop healing to push out gens as fast possible. That is not normal survivor gameplay but a playstyle that is decided in the lobby.
You could make the argument that tunneling is more of a natural playstyle because it doesn't involve any offerings, addons or perks.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817886#Comment_3817886
Personally I think complaining about gens getting done (in the abstract) is far more Us vs Them than anything I said
If you simplify it to that extend, then of course it sounds like Us vs. Them. But the same could be done with tunneling and camping.
Killers aren't complaining that gens get done at all but about how fast it happens. Just as survivors don't complain that killers kill them at all. They complain about how fast it happens and the strategies used.
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I lost interest in Chucky the second they removed flicks. The cap feels awful to me and it dumbed down the killer to a level where I felt that there was almost no skill expression left.
This didn't change after they removed scampering outside of S&D although now he seems even more dumbed down because you just spam his power.
I would happily take the 18 seconds cooldown, if they brought back flicks but maybe I am alone with this.
I would prefer DBD to be a game with a relatively low skill floor and a high skill ceiling but that is very hard to achieve.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817169#Comment_3817169
Survivor definition of unfun: killer plays in a way that everyone, killers and survivors, gets the minimum total possible amount of gameplay interactions imaginable
Killer definition of unfun: survivor plays in a way
Come on, stop it with the Us vs. Them.
Neither of this is even remotely true. Because it's an overgeneralisation of what a very small minority of players think.
First and foremost both sides want to have fun. Many get their enjoyment out of winning, so that's what they will try to do. Survivors and killers both. The problem is that the strategies that lead to wins are often very unfun for the other side.
Killers don't like it, if the match is over before anything really happened and survivors don't like it if they can't play the full game because the killer slugs / tunnels / camps. All of these have their place in the game but should probably become more situational, which at least with tunneling and camping seems to be the case because we have a lot more anti tunnel perks now and base kit changes to camping.
We also see a huge amount of complaints about aura vision, which really only leads to the killer finding you more often and creates more actual interaction. This is mostly due to overexposure I assume but still it goes against what you said.
Everyone has their pet peeves with the game (I for example don't like if survivors play for pallet saves because it forces me to slug) and pretending otherwise just results in pointless Us vs. Them.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
As others have said - it is an Anti-Facecamp feature. Meaning, it is useless, since facecamping was never done anyway.
Now all you get is a bar not filling up while you see the Killer standing there, close enough to be at the Hook when you get unhooked.
I disagree. Basement face camping was not all that uncommon and some maps have hooks that are great for face camping. That no longer works and the AFC forces killers to get away from the hook at least for a while.
Meaning, you will always be able to get that survivor off the hook (other than a basement camping Bubba /Billy because they can stay at the stairs, which should be fixed). The AFC was never meant to grant full safety to the unhooker but make it possible for that hooked survivor to get back into the match instead of dying on their first hook.
The hook time increase also helps with this and if all that is not enough, Reassurance is an option. If a killer tries to camp for 100 seconds, that's enough for the other survivors to do 3 gens.
Camping by far isn't as strong as it used to be.
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@TheDavidKingMain said:
Devs almost did this, but guess who complained. Killer mains. Their favorite.
Is that why the feedback for base kit Unbreakable was almost unanimous?
Most survivor mains at the time found it stupid as well. It's just completely busted and exploitable. There are situations in which a killer is forced to slug and base kit Unbreakable turns this into a lose-lose scenario.
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Yeah... That is going to take a while. You'll probably spend hundreds of hours just doing bloodwebs.
Anyways, good luck. May the BP gods have mercy on you and you reward you with enough BP offerings.
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It appears that way.
This might be a bit of a hot take but I like the general idea and execution of some breakable walls.
Breakable Walls were introduced to add some strategic choices for the killer. You could open up new ways for yourself but the survivors could use them as well. That is the one good thing about The Game as a map.
Most of them however are not strategic at all. It's either a "Always break this one." or "NEVER break that one."
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That depends on the map, the killer, the rng, the survivors and the builds used, honestly.
I agree that Rancid Abartoir is a terrible map for survivors mostly because the weaker pallets are completely worthless. If they were a little stronger, then it already wouldn't feel quite as bad. Most filler loops in the game have no vaults. So that is not all too surprising.
Rancid Abartoir still has some big time wasters though. The cow tree, the shack and the main tiles are all very, very strong and some of the filler pallets are also quite good, although depending on the rng and killer that can vary.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817284#Comment_3817284
3 of the top 6 most popular killer perks are aura reading perks.
The rest of them are slowdown. So this confirms what I said. Running full info builds is more gimmicky than useful. It's a lot better to run a build with both info and slowdown.
Without the info, it's harder to use your slowdown perks often enough to buy yourself the time you need and without slowdown you don't have the time to act on the information you get.
@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817284#Comment_3817284
The reason why info was not meta is because it was just nurses bbq and bitter Murmur lol ,why would info be meta then?
Now starting with neme then up to knight the aura reading perks and add ons is through the roof why are taking about the past like that matter, it's about today and the future.
Distortion, Tinkerer, BBQ, Nurse's, Bitter Murmur and Infectious Fright all existed when I started playing and they were used, just not as often as they were now because you had something like Pop, Ruin + Undying and mostly Corrupt Intervention as the most common killer build.
All of these 4, literally ever single one, was nerfed. Ruin + Undying have become pretty rare and Pain Res has been nerfed a few times too.
Killers used to run 4 slowdown perks because they were so strong (and even then most would use at least one perk for something different). People complained about not wanting to play against 4 slowdown perks every match and whenever the devs released another slowdown perk that wasn't crap it would become meta by virtue of it being slowdown.
Now we changed the game so much and nerfed slowdown overall and people are complaining that killers start to use something other than slowdown?
Really, what perks is the killer supposed to run?
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816571#Comment_3816571
If you constantly see survivors you don’t need gen slowdown perks at all… because you know where to go/be at all times. Survivors are your objective, not generators
If that were true, then for the past years we'd have only seen info metas on killers. But that's not the case. Without slowdown the game is still too fast paced for the killer to do much. Most killers barely lose any time in looking for survivors anyway because they already have an idea where to go thanks to their experience and the fact that survivors usually don't hide either way.
A balanced build with slowdown and info is better than just overcommitting on one thing (very few exceptions).
Survivors are your objective but that objective becomes unobtainable after a certain amount of time. Meaning, you have 2 ways to try and win.
- You do your objective faster.
- You try to buy yourself more time to do your objective.
The second option is the more common for killers because there is only so much you can do to increase your own progression speed. After all, survivors have a direct impact on this and there are some time traps that you can't avoid normally (picking up, carrying, hooking, traversing the map).
We also nerfed the best chase perks for killers, STBFL and Sloppy (for the sake of the argument I'll consider it a chase perk because chases with an injured survivor are way shorter). So that already makes point 1 harder. Meaning, you'll need to decrease any other time losses you have, which you do by using info perks. The time you can save with this approach however is finite. Even if you were to see survivors at all times, you still couldn't win the match infinitely fast. So at a certain point more info doesn't do anything anymore.
With slowdown perks nerfed, the approach to buy yourself more and more time has become less effective, which means that the hybrid playstyle of both saving time and slowing down the game is the most effective way to play.
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@Aceislife said:
Because Ace is just better. No way around it, and nobody can deny it.
It might also have something to do with his sense of style.
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@Seraphor said:
There are a lot of decent killer perks that trigger on hooks as well. As someone who plays for hooks over kills, they're incredibly useful. But there could always be more.
Personally I'd like to see a perk or perks that increase in power for each hook, but decrease in power for each sacrificed survivor. Make it strong enough to be meta and it could be one of the healthiest things for the game.
That is of course true but the best hooking perks for killers have been nerfed while perks that don't require hooking have stayed the same. So the the strength of hooking has been reduced as a result.
There have been many small things that now add up to a point where slugging really is the better way to play in many situations. That is very unfortunate and it can't be fixed by only small tweaks. At least not in a healthy way.
A hooking perk that gets stronger for each hook sounds nice in theory but would suffer from the same issues as Dying Light. It would be a "win more" perk. So whenever you would actually struggle the perk would do very little and since you only have 3 other perks, the chances for you to struggle are increased. That makes such a perk incredibly hard to balance and it could also lead to awkward situations where it would be better for the survivors to let their teammate die on hook to weaken the effect of this perk.
I think they should revert the sabo buffs and design more killer perks around the idea of hooking. Some of them could definitely use anti tunneling restrictions like that they can't be triggered by the same survivor twice in a row.
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@WW1PilotAce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816601#Comment_3816601
why? its as simple as unbalanced things are unfun to play againts, i dont even know how you cant understand this, its as basic a 2+2=4
the mmr doesnt count for swf as date the only thing that matters for mmr its scapes-deaths-time in the game-teammates that made it alieve
before my break i was playing with tournaments blights and nurse daily and one of my teammates that i play with a lot of times, was a comp player that was part of multiple tournaments incluiding the last one from hans
DBD's balance is so specific that it's not as simple as 2+2=4 at all. It's closer to x^x=0. We don't use 50% kill rates as a balance metric but 60%. That already tilts everything drastically and if you bring in statistics, you'll find that SWF escape rates are within 1 standard deviation.
the mmr doesnt count for swf as date the only thing that matters for mmr its scapes-deaths-time in the game-teammates that made it alieve
You're missing the point. You don't play against 4 people that that all got their MMR on that level in solo queue matches and then just happen to play in a SWF. If you would, then the match would be quite similar to a solo queue game because they'd lack the experience to communicate properly.
before my break i was playing with tournaments blights and nurse daily and one of my teammates that i play with a lot of times, was a comp player that was part of multiple tournaments
Good for you. But this claim isn't exactly new. We've had so many people claim they play in tournaments / with tournament players that I put 0 trust in this.
Either way, your kill rate should still exceed 50%. Even against those SWFs. So one could make the argument that the balance still tilted towards killers.
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@WW1PilotAce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816315#Comment_3816315
my dude this is a discussion about balance, the answer can never be "just dont care about it", swf is op i told you how they make the game a lot easier for survivors, how they using third party sofware nerf most killers and perks, what you are doing is the equivalent of "well yes alchemist ring blight is op but most blights dont use that addon so it doesnt matter, just have fun in your next game :)"
If you read closely, you'd have noticed this wasn't about balance at all but about SWFs that are more akin to bully squads.
Also, you said, that you didn't care about losing. So why are we having a balance discussion? That makes no sense to me.
Anyway, the game will not pare you with a bunch of players that are good on their own but now suddenly play in a SWF and also have the experience to communicate effectively. So their MMR is going to plateau with the all the advantages of a SWF accounted for. Meaning you still have a chance to win and your match isn't going to be much harder just because these people play in a SWF.
This also explains why SWFs only have a marginally higher escape rate than solo survivors as @Darcalus said, which only differs in high MMR. And before you start, it is very unlikely you are actually at highest MMR. The devs confirmed that the MMR distribution for players looks close to a bell shape (few people at the bottom, most of us around the middle and few people high up). Meaning, you will not notice much of a difference even when you do play against a full SWF.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3815979#Comment_3815979
It's not about actually being able to instadown, it's about sending a message
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O01H8RW567HF/7bd1579107-7c1b-41ac-a873-f2ce44a5fc86-7d.png
Oh, you'd be surprised... Some people are so afraid of her blink that they'll actually give you a free M1.
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@Unequalmitten86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3815546#Comment_3815546
In my experience every 4 person SWF just bullies as in not doing gens and seeks out the killer to head on and other BS tactics. Granted I know not all are like that it is just seeing this I get the slugging and tunneling more. I don't play killer often maybe once or twice a day but in the end it is just the constant sliding over pallets, the flashlight spam, the head on (I really avoid lockers anymore when carrying or chasing). The thing though that really irritates me is that all three remaining players can crouch and really dictate where the killer goes. Now I'm on console and you can tell a PC player because the struggle with a mouse is strong and I really feel there is a huge disadvantage here. The thing is if I am not tunneling or doing anything toxic, why be crappy players? Maybe I don't find it funny and I don't that as a survivor. I don't tbag or stay at the gate to taunt because that's just bad. I have gotten 3 swfs that do the same thing but they are pretty tame. I just feel that this game is going in a toxic crapper because of all the players wanting to torment and it shouldn't be that way.
DBD definitely has some players with a crappy attitude just like any other only game. What makes it a bit special in DBD is that it feels more personal because it's a 1v4.
I have played against plenty of bully squads and I know from experience how awful it feels, if you can't seem to do anything against that. However, there is a reason why most bully squad videos end up with the survivors dying.
You can flip the tables as long as you remain calm because these kinds of survivors put themselves in dangerous situations. There is only one scenario on Dead Dawg Saloon that I would refuse to play because they will always succeed in making the match miserable.
With that said, I have found that there aren't that many bully squads out there anymore. Most SWFs are just like any solo group you play against but slightly more coordinated.
Usually you will want to use at least one info perk so that you aren't at the mercy of the survivors to find anyone. Nowhere To Hide is probably the best to counter this specific issue but one more won't hurt. Lightborn is also a very nice perk if you see 2+ flashlights in a lobby. Most of the time it's not very impactful but whenever you end up against a bully squad with flashlights, Lightborn is your best friend.
I think DBD has more of a problem with sore winners than anything else and it's weird because I don't understand the mindset behind it. If someone wins, then why do they feel the need to diminish their win by being a jerk?
Overall though I think that the amount of toxic players isn't as high as it seems. Humans are just wired to remember the bad way more than the good, so you will be under the impression that this happens more often and once you start looking for it, confirmation bias does the rest. You expect people to be toxic so you will find toxicity where there is none.
The best advice I can give you is to run Lightborn and just play for fun for a while. That can help with your attitude towards the game and other players a lot.
Anyway, I hope you'll have some more fun matches soon. Good luck and see you in the fog.