WolfyWood
WolfyWood
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675275#Comment_3675275
Alright let assume 6.1.0 never happened and killers overall got more buffs then they got while survivors were left the same. Survivors would still be running the same meta loadout from back then and killers would be far stronger basekit overall. Survivors still wouldn't have time to essentially mess around as you and many other want to be able to.
Chase is the best part of survivor but if it takes survivor being op vs all but the A tier and higher killers then nothing changes.
Old survivor just had the time to waste and it was fun for them even if they ended up throwing the game, now it's "I can't win the game while not being progressive and that's obnoxious". Again, except for a small portion of killers.
It sounds to me like you want a rework of the survivor system itself in it's entirety.
If you agree that map changes have been bad and an overhaul to the survivor objective is needed then I agree.
But there is 0 point in queuing up just the preform the myriad of ways to solo end the game, unless you are selfish or oblivious.
You wouldn't have time to mess around perhaps but you also would still have powerful perks to swing the game in your favor that feel good to use and un-nerfed maps.
Besides, what is the alternative now? Survivor meta is still perks that were released ages ago and killer still got a ton of basekit buffs. Which were needed and I don't want killer to get stripped down like survivor is at the moment.
I do agree that my vision for the game is not in line with what the devs want, so my solution is to just not play until something comes up that makes the game engaging to me, a wave of basekit survivor buffs or a rework to generators would be a start.
I don't know why you're telling me the last point, I agree with you and have never endorsed queuing up to troll and waste time, that doesn't mean I cannot sympathize with the reasons that are pushing people to do so.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675505#Comment_3675505
I've tried, but the game is less fun for me that way. The really fun part of survivor for me is optimizing and essentially speedrunning the trials. And that's not even remotely possible unless I'm in a very specific 4 man SWF. Every once in a while they do a matchmaking test where I have solo queue nirvana for a day or two with players I used to play comp with, and then they immediately turn it off and it goes back to a matchmaking free-for-all.
I just don't see why survivor matchmaking has to be this bad for the game to function.
My theory is that their data most likely showed that bad killers are more likely to quit if faced with too much challenge, and on the other side most survivors are likely to still play even if they lose a majority of their games as long as it means they get into game quickly.
It sounds like a tinfoil hat moment, but think about it, with the amount of lobby dodging and moaning about swf, the amount of killers that would simply not enjoy the game if they were faced with a real challenge in most of their games has to be pretty high.
BHVR really wants killer to feel like the power role, so slaughtering more than half your lobbies is their way of achieving this, it also doubles as a low-cost way to maintain the game since it doesn't require any meaningful resources being put into balance.
Of course this is on BHVR and not the killer playerbase.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675184#Comment_3675184
"This meta is godawful, boring, and almost zero variety,"
Haha, so pre 6.1.0? Literally the entire meta after the first year the game launched was the same.
You only contribute to the problem and everyone who thinks like you. I would have a 65% wr as survivor instead of 52% if people just tried, that's it, TRY.
Sometimes I run into good killers, playing good killers while running the meta but not more than 1/4 games(keep in mind good killer players are probably 1/50 easily and to say otherwise would undermine your own station).
So what do I expect? Survivors to play the game they queued up for. Or do we just kill the game now and always do nothing?
I will say what they do to maps is never good for the most part, that's it.
If the killer was good, survivor wouldn't be able to "take it out on them". Factually.
It seems to me you have played too much solo queue and it's skewed your perception. Survivors throw the game at least 1/2 of games by not playing well(not even optimally) just playing to win. Oh no, survivors only have a 40% win rate bare minimum when 1/4th of the are throwing every game. How sad.
I didn't play survivor until after 6.1.0 and I have mained the role since a few months after. I don't need those old perks to carry me, I need my teamates to play semi-competently and THAT"S IT.
Well I don't know how I'm contributing to any problem when I've basically stopped playing for awhile now aside from one or two full swf matches.
I know you dislike my opinions but even then it's a weird assumption to think I'm actively ruining games.
Anyways, modern survivor isn't about besting the killer in chase anymore, it's about forcing them into unwinnable macro situations by taking initiative with holding m1 on gens.
I win most of my games, solo or otherwise, it's still boring. There's no interaction, and looping is now just static loops on safe tiles and static downs on unsafe tiles. It feels like playing in a tournament.
It's not shocking that players now don't care about escaping because they're so thirsty for fun interactions with their opponent, but this is the result of balancing through nerfs instead of buffs.
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Well what do you expect survivors to do?
This meta is godawful, boring, and almost zero variety, skill-expression continues to get watered down, maps made more bland and killer sided, perks are being released that literally only benefit the Killer, among other things.
Taking it out on the killer is a wrong move and shame on those people for being unsportsmanlike, but there is not point in putting effort to escape right now.
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@Gabe_Soma said:
This is the best time to be playing Dead By Daylight (for killers)
Thread should've ended after this.
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@catnip18 said:
This is less for me than for my friends. I have 3 different friends that full on refuse to play the game because specific moris either trigger them or gross them out. The legion mori is very akin to SA, plagues is on par with a common phobia, and cenobites is pretty gross. I feel like letting survivors play without seeing the mori's should be a very easy on/off toggle, but if they cant be bothered to do such a simple fix, removing the leaver penalty once a mori starts should be fine, as at the point you've already died.
I thought I was the only one who felt icky with Legion's mori, probably one of the only ones that makes me feel super uncomfortable enough to usually tab out during it.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674481#Comment_3674481
Personally, you listing the design aspects of these characters really doesn't concern me at all. Cause that's all on the devs and their design team which they have plenty of resources. My main concern as the OP has addressed is the unequal fair treatment of not getting green rarities as well at their DEBUT even going so far as another purple recolor that vittorio and Sable has received. We mentioned Lyra siblings, yet I'm still bothered that it took until their midchapter for them to recieve them and Gabriel not getting green rarities or an extra purple rarity at all.
If you think it's unfair to release with less cosmetics when other survivors release with more then more power to you and I am inclined to agree.
I disagree however that this is the result of subtle racism, at least not on BHVR's part. The POC in this game get some of best and equal treatment I've seen compared to tons of other games and that's even with having a high standard for this type of thing.
I am also one to think if they fix this issue by constantly giving quality skins to the character (which they have been) then what happens on release isn't really relevant as its temporary.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674326#Comment_3674326
Is this actually coming from a vittorio main calling haddie and Gabriel horrid designs when vittorio within the community is hated for being medieval going modern? Oh I seen it all. You are lucky he's treated as a thirst trap, cause that's the only reason why he has been consistently getting skins and it's also a reason ppl are turned off from him at release.
'Hated by the community' is a big stretch. Echo chambers on social media are hardly reflective of reality and their dislike for the character has always been rooted in bitterness over their own favorite survivor. Especially when you consider his design is fully cohesive within his lore.
In any case it wouldn't change me liking him because I don't like things just because others do.
I want to like Haddie and Gabriel because they have cool stories. But BHVR botched them badly.
Them making Haddie look so old face-wise despite having a 'slimthicc' body just looks bad and outfits won't fix it. She needs a facial remodel, fixing her hair was a good start. Won't even go into detail about how awful her default is because it's evident.
In Gabriel's case, him only getting bulky pants and body pieces, on top of their refusal to give him a hairstyle that doesn't suck is really hurting him. BHVR needs to stop overdesigning his outfits and give him casual wear like everyone else. It's no shocker that his iron Maiden shirt is one of his best cosmetics at the moment.
Circling back to the original point outlined in OP, The Lyras success despite a anemic release shatters any grounds to argue that POC characters are neglected or that BHVR gives preferential treatment to non-poc survivors.
It really does boils down to certain characters having worse designs than others in my opinion.
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Sable in title yet half the thread is getting mad at Vittorio for being attractive (?) and getting skins due to this fact.
It's also weird because the Lyras, despite having no release skins, have also been getting good cosmetics every other patch which you admit to but it doesn't count because they don't have green rarity cosmetics?
Haddie and Gabriel having horrid designs(debatable) and being unpopular has nothing to do with the success of Vittorio/The Lyras/Sable.
BHVR already made up for the fact that they fumbled with Haddie's cosmetic situation by giving her a ton of unique outfits, and she's still unpopular because her design simply isn't appealing to a lot of people, which shouldn't matter anyways because your love for the character should supercede community perception especially because the character is still getting outfits despite this.
It's honestly time to let go of this discourse and let it fizzle out on Twitter. There is no hidden agenda at play.
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The only nerf Knight needs is being forced to wear less armor for .. reasons.
Otherwise he's not very different than other M2 on a loop killers, sure it's boring to play against, but not really that strong if you have good pathing.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673529#Comment_3673529
Its not about winning and losing. But mostly the experiment of game play for the hooked survivor.
Saying “no one on gen” prove the AFC mechanic is pointless.
I mean even under the best circumstances being on hook is boring.
I usually do not get frustrated with camping, the annoyance comes with people who play like in the screenshot that basically let me die for no reason. If I die for some escapes it is well worth it.
Also, Sadako is a terrible face camper. She is powerless to stop a hook trade. There are worse proxy campers for sure. Huntress, Michael, and Oni come to mind.
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Seems more like a team issue than a killer issue imo. Why is no one on a gen?
You could easily do a gen while someone else hovers then forces a trade.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672855#Comment_3672855
Am I the They in question
A prominent Acolyte of Adriana for sure....
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@ChaosWam said:
As with any 'tech' that's actually just an exploit, I'd say fix it. Though I do agree it's not very common.
That said, survivors being unable to do conspicuous actions after being hit? I wonder how that would effect the game, kinda curious on that one.
Well someone had pointed out unhooks are a conspicuous action. So they'd have to be made the exception.
But here are the things that survivors would not be able to do in front of the killer anymore:
Exit Gates
Healing
Generators
Sabotage
Obviously this would be a giant nerf, so I don't think it should happen anytime in the near future. But it is something I think should happen eventually, even as a survivor player I do find it silly that killers are powerless to stop these from occurring.
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@k0reant3a said:
i find her too easy as killer she doesn’t have any skill to her and then for survivor point of view you know the rest really 😂😂😂
Well unless you're ready to argue I suggest you evacuate the thread because -They- are coming to indoctrinate you into the Skull Merchant Cult.
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@zarr said:
Heal tech is pretty BS. I agree (and have before suggested) that killers should have the authority to pick up survivors that are being healed, forcing other survivors off. Likewise to kick gens that are being worked on.
"Survivors should not be allowed to perform conspicuous actions a few seconds after being struck" is something else entirely though. That would mean they cannot unhook after being hit, for just one thing that would change the entire game.
I forgot unhooking was a conspicuous action that's my bad, mainly meant finishing generators/heals in front of the killer's face feels goofy.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672116#Comment_3672116
Because that's what this thread is about?
Counter arguments to any other point about why this killer is poorly designed would be seen in threads where those points are the ones being made.
This thread is about a specific argument, and that specific argument is wrong.
I don't think its wrong, the drones should not injure you under any circumstance, they should simply provide info/boost the killer in chase and that's it. I don't have anything else to add that hasn't been said already however, so I'll see myself out.
Chalk it up to me having no counterargument. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672103#Comment_3672103
130 responses in which some people are trying to point out the evidence provided doesn't support the claim being made.
Its futile but I'll bite anyways.
Why does the clip matter when the killer is just poorly designed anyways?
Like there's so much scrutiny being applied to what is essentially a drop in an endless sea of moments where SM proves she is not well put together.
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Almost 130 responses for such a simple conclusion that SM has bad design.
We're never making it out of the trenches are we?
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669588#Comment_3669588
You just didn't read their post lmao.
OP listed off every killer related thing you deem people can give up for and said they literally don't do any of that. Besides the weird bm things that probably didn't even cross their mind.
There's many unfun things in the game, but when none of them happen there's 0 excuse.
Never said the OP did any of the things I listed.
These strategies are common enough to where players are preemptively going next at the first sign of them in play even if it wasn't the killer's intent. Survivors can ruin games and make their teammates go next as well, but killer is the power role so its not proportionate, killers often set the tone of the match and too often they immediately make it boring/frustrating for reasons outside of just playing efficient.
Making hook suicides bannable won't actually fix anything, it'll just be another change that makes the game worse for survivors. They need to change killer rewards and gameplay to make spreading hooks the efficient way to win, which does take a lot of work because its a nuanced problem; this is why I believe they're just keeping it as is, they don't see it as being worth it.
I am also in favor of nerfing survivor's ability to ignore their objective to bully/hide/open chests/etc as well, killers being forced to sweat for their wins but survivors being able to get carried while contributing nothing is dumb and should not be a thing.
So we're stuck with what we have, the queue times aren't long enough in this game for a hook suicide to be significant, unless of course, the killer drags out the 3v1 game, but that's on the killer not the survivor that went next at that point.
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@mikewelk said:
https://twitter.com/g0rejira/status/1766161396339786066?t=nQ6glDsmHuQXifofkip-DA&s=19
I just don't understand how people enjoy facing Skull Merchant when stuff like this happens so often. They got outplayed at the most unsafe loop on RPD and got rewarded for it??? Yes, the survivor could've crouched, but they would have got M1'd anyways since you need to compensate for server lag and crouch for longer than necessary due to it. Can you even argue that it's avoidable?
Nothing to even comment, showed a friend of mine this who hasn't played since Knight release and he said he's glad you can still hook suicide 'cause he'd do it every game vs her.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669598#Comment_3669598
But that means you ideal world does not care for killer players.
Legion playstyle does only work becauee of mend cause you need to rob the survs of ttimeand i dont think it really matters ehat happens to cost them time.
Lets say its not mend then Its go to that object and cleans yourself like wesker or nemi. Is that more fun? Legion applys his effect so fast you could stay by that object
It does not because I didn't say the change should be a strict nerf.
In an ideal world Legion would get changed to be healthier and still fun for Legion players.
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@fussy said:
Hag SHOULD be 4,6, i agree. Maybe Slinger too. But other 4,4 killers are have strong chase power to compensate it.
4.6 Slinger who already has one of the best 1v1 powers. Lol?
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669700#Comment_3669700
The movement speed was just reverted - rightfully so.
Thank goodness. She was about to be SM tier brainless. Don't know why she's getting buffs at all.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669588#Comment_3669588
but what you say would also mean that bhvr would need to change totally fine killers that arent to strong just because survivor dont like to face them. most people hate to play against legion because they dont like it many people dc because of that so does that killer now need to be changed wich eats tons of recourses that could be used elsewhere and wich would hurt the community that loves that killer?
Well you've already discovered the solution.
In an ideal world yes, Legion would be changed to be something more than mend simulator, but you are correct that this is not practical at the moment.
Therefore people have to accept that killers like Legion will continue to exist and they also have to accept that Hook Suicides are also part of the game.
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Why not just do a gen? Being obsessed with healing usually ends up getting everyone killed.
And I'm definitely not going to heal anyone after being unhooked outside of very specific situations. That's crazy.
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Just like the last thread about this I always have to ask why it circles back to 'Survivor bad' and not a deeper look at why people DC.
If killers are allowed to tunnel, 4-slug, hump on the ground, hit on hook, bleed out, and camp and if survivors are allowed to bodyblock their teammates, hide in corners and lockers all game, play for hatch, etc.
Then why is it so shocking that people will also use a method in game to avoid what they would consider to be a waste of time? Why is that considered unreasonable and why does it anger you so much?
Yeah it does suck when someone goes next in a winnable game, but that happens so rarely that I'm almost certain it's hyperbole to say it happens every other game.
The overwhelming majority of hook suicides that I see are when against killers known for terrible playstles (yes Pig is one of them) that involve not actually playing, or if their teammates do nothing for minutes at a time.
Let's fix those before we come after people wanting to avoid them.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669559#Comment_3669559
What do people who ignore the purpose of the thread
All of your posts in this thread have been more verbose versions of 'u bad lol', so I don't think you can point fingers at anyone else.
I feel like it should be a requirement to post your own Survivor solo queue gameplay before commenting on it.
So many posts about how easy survivor is and how you can escape all your solo queue games if you get good. I'd love to see how these people play survivor honestly.
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What do you want us to say?
You have forbidden options available to you. Or you can wait until she is changed which is unlikely to happen anytime soon.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/403256/your-thoughts-on-current-dead-hard
I see it often. :)
I feel like it’s good in its current state. However, the only change I would make is you get to start with dead hard. (So a total of 3 deadhards)
I think that would help get slightly more value out of it.
Well most of the problem with Dead Hard that the community had with it being used first chase was that if it was used successfully the killer would lose the game.
I agree there should be three charges but it would not go over well.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668787#Comment_3668787
It's a bit unfair when getting 4 highly skilled players who can play at the same time and have no ping issues is much harder than one highly skilled killer. Of course there's gonna be more streaks, longer streaks and streak attempts overall. I still stand by the fact that a solid 4-man SWF bringing the best stuff each game can do just as well.
Yes, I probably shouldn't have worded the way that I did. I more mean that a really good 4-man SWF can have just as ridiculously high a win rate and give 99% of killers they go against no chance to win.
So you agree that highly coordinated SWFs are extremely rare and that as a Killer you are much more likely to do extremely well over a long period of time in higher MMR?
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@Krazzik said:
I mean 4-man SWFs can go on streaks just as long.
Please name one that has a 1000+ streak.
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But have you considered how the Skull Merchant player feels?
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667989#Comment_3667989
Uhh Knight walked so SM could run. Knight was one of the most notorious 3-gen killers. It's just that at first people here were shitting on him and calling him failed. He was also the first to keep a match hostage for an hour.
https://youtu.be/Vv3I9hHLblE?si=Yi6UEFYm7AaYK6Zr
How wasn't it bland. Every killer was running at least 2 gen regression perks and maybe aura reading. Sure there were a couple who ran some off meta build but those were the exception not the rule. Pain res was also popular and proc'd every time you hooked someone regardless if you'd hooked them previously.
Did you perhaps start playing around that time so the game was still fresh to you?
I started a few weeks before the Halloween event of 2022. I'm sitting at just about 3200 hrs in the game. 2000 of those were during 2023. So I definitely got really into the game and have a ton of experience with every meta from then until now.
Like I said earlier. I'm mostly being facetious but I still find it preferable because at the very least the games were intense.
Some of the most fun games I've had on this game were breaking 3 gens against sweaty killers with my friends in a swf.
The meta now, while more balanced and arguably less frustrating, is a lot more boring because of how watered down survivor skill expression is.
Most every survivor game at a certain MMR bracket plays the exact same, chase extension has been thoroughly gutted.
So now it's just:
Pre-Run - Predrop unsafe pallet until bloodlust hit/Loop safe pallet twice - Get downed - camped until trade - tunneled until dead - repeat.
These things still existed during Eruption meta but even still, survivors had equally as strong things to fight back with. Now all we can do is cling to old perks for a meta since survivor will definitely never get an MFT level perk again until those perks inevitably get nerfed too(Andrenaljne), while also waiting for more basekit nerfs.
It's boring.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667810#Comment_3667810
Eruption was worse even with Medkit not nerfed and maps werent changed.
Gens blocked are not regressed. But old Eruption had 9sec instantly lost, 25sec of Incap, and 6sec regression. Total of 40sec lost, per Gen.
@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667888#Comment_3667888
Maybe they werent around as much during that part of the meta? Cause I find it unbelievable anyone who lived through that time to be reminiscing about it. But they do mention survivor perks so they probably mean the first iteration of reworked DH and maybe maybe pre nerf CoH and medkits. Though those still didn't matter much because killers knew to wait out DH, especially of they saw you use it once (and they could wait it even in my MMR). And to heal you'd need to lose the killer before going down and activated eruption on your unsuspecting teammates.
Stll this version of DH was certainly strong and fun to use.
It was terrible, and I'm mostly being facetious. But even still, at least it wasn't bland.
Also no Skull Merchant.
The problem I have with current DBD is that it feels bland. Survivor has been watered down heavily.
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Would be fine but killer basekit is so strong that you don't give up anything to run four slowdowns.
Still think Eruption meta was better at this point. Was way more extreme but at least survivors had a ton of broken stuff too + no maps were gutted yet.
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Look forward to skins and that's pretty much it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666871#Comment_3666871
Okay, so then on a serious note.
You'd need both:
A) High-level Survivors. Not common, as shown by Kill rates and win streaks.
B) Very specific RNG. I have to assume they'd have already posted this if they had seen it before, which means it's fairly rare.
I agree with you.
But from what I observe their mentality is that the game should be balanced around high level survivors.
Which would have merit if BHVR enforced team play. But they don't, so it makes no sense to treat survivors like they'll always be playing like a SWF.
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To be fair. It feels like nobody actually read the OP just the title and video.
The point of the post was to highlight the structure, and they specifically stated the team they were against was bad but high level survivors would've made it too strong.
I still disagree with them, but the responses have the wrong energy imo.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666180#Comment_3666180
There are two reasons why I don't care about the opinions of pros, or more accurately, why I don't consider their opinions correct by default.
The first is that the pro scene in most games tends to be radically different to the experience of actually playing a match yourself. The expectations and context for a lot of decisions and actions are wildly different because they're built on the way people at the top play, which cannot be guaranteed to be how things work in regular games. This was a problem I had back when I played Overwatch, too; watching the pros only did so much when all their decisions were based around being in a team of players they know and trust with top tier communication.
The second is that even disregarding the top point, pros tend to optimise. I don't care about only bringing the absolute best and whether something is considered viable within that context, I care about if it's good, on its own merits, not compared to the most efficient and optimised meta build available. That's not a fun, engaging, or helpful way to approach the game, in my opinion.
The top players of this game frequently interact with laymen though, there are tons of solo-queue experience that they have, granted, their attitudes and overall play-style is abhorrent. Which is why I don't like the CC's of this game, but I still respect their knowledge and ability. They also makes tons of content for casuals and above, so its pretty clear that they have a deep understanding of how the game works at all levels.
DBD isn't similar to Overwatch because Overwatch has a ranked mode and Blizzard's MMR is probably leagues and miles above BHVR's coding.
The problem is that optimization is inherent to something being good. Perks do not exist in a vacuum, so no matter what its ability to perform will always include how it compares to other perks, and things like Lucky Star are terrible even within the niche of terrible perks because they simply do not provide enough benefit to outweigh their conditions. Niche perks would be okay if the game was more casual, but DBD is not casual and by running these perks you are hindering your team, even if player skill typically can close that gap.
The reason people are dissatisfied with survivor perks recently is because all that is being granted are niche perks, which is seriously killing perk variety. This is not a community problem. The pool of meta perks should always be abundant so there's an efficient perk load-out for most playstyles.
Funny enough the problem that people claim is happening on the killer side, where they state that only four killers are viable due to the rest falling to the wayside in higher MMR brackets, is more true for survivor perks than anything.
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@RFSa09 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666154#Comment_3666154
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666158#Comment_3666158
like i said before: not being the best one and being bad are different things
artist is not better than nurse, so artist is bad for you guys? 🤷♂️
and the a lot of ´´Content creators´´ made videos about those perks
Killers aren't comparable to perks so that is the first thing.
Secondly this is a PVP game, consistency and efficiency are and should be the determining factors in what makes something good.
Perks that are inconsistent and require wasting efficiency are not good, what is not clicking?
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666149#Comment_3666149
This thread is about Windows of Opportunity, the number one most picked perk. Is it therefore the strongest perk in the game? No, that's laughable. It barely does anything at all.
Pickrate does not always correlate with strength. People pick perks based on a number of factors that includes strength, but isn't limited entirely to it. Take Windows again: Why do people run Windows? Because it's nice. It's nice to know for sure you are avoiding deadzones, and it's nice to see what your options are. You can get almost all of this information just from keeping an eye out, and what little you can't get that way can come from stronger perks, but Windows is the most convenient, accessible, and passive of those. That's why it's picked, not because it's strong.
I don't know or care why top tier players don't run these perks. I don't consider them the gold standard models for the only things you should or could ever do in this game, so I don't particularly care to look into it either.
So, why are they so rare? I could be reductive here, and I wouldn't be wrong to do so. I could just say "because people incorrectly think they're bad", and that wouldn't be inaccurate, it'd just be unhelpful.
There are factors that go into it beyond just community perception; for one, some of them are strong in areas people don't care about. For example, Light-Footed is a really good perk for denying the killer info and breaking chases, but breaking chases tends to be less popular than extending chases, in my experience.
Some of them require playstyles or actions people don't want to go out of their way for. An older example, but Overzealous is a good pick to showcase what I mean here; that perk is quite strong when paired with a boon build and a little careful planning, but most players don't want that, they want passive value from things that just function in the background or require very little extra thought from them. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it also doesn't make the perks they discount for this reason bad either.
Some of them, yes, have some randomness to them, but that's often conflated with the above point in my experience. Something like Chemical Trap is crazy good if put on the right pallet, but some players don't like gambling on being in the right position to use it, even if it's not all that uncommon. People have a bad habit of assuming they have no control over a perk's consistency, though, and that's not always true. Some perks you absolutely can make consistent.
Some of them, it must be said, come from survivors with a bad reputation. An older example again, but Overcome is one of the stronger Exhaustion perks and among the strongest perks period... but pretty much everyone clowns on Jonah, so how many people even have this perk to use it, let alone pay attention to it? I'd argue this is what's happening when you see people immediately discount Cut Loose, even though it's basically just Quick & Quiet with one extra step. Tools of Torment and its associated survivors have a bad enough reputation that people just dismiss all the perks, only Background Player gets to escape this because of how absurdly strong it is in areas people actually care about.
Also, they're new, so fewer survivors even have them, let alone have put in any thought to figuring out the best use case for them yet. That is a factor that can't be ignored, how many players HAVE the perk is going to affect how many players bring that perk into their trials. Sometimes they're new, sometimes they're gated behind real money, and sometimes it's both.
And then, finally, yeah, there is a tendency to just discount new perks entirely if they aren't game-breakingly strong. Again, people in this thread and you specifically are discounting Champion of Light, a genuinely strong new perk. I do sincerely believe this is 100% a perception and attitude problem, that stacks with the above points.
Notice that only one of the above points actually runs foul of your breakdown of a strong perk. The perks I'm talking about largely do something worth doing, the situations they do it in are under your control, and their consistency in those situations is under your control too. There are just other factors that lead to people choosing other perks.
If you do not care what top tier players do then there is no way to give your opinion much weight because you lack credibility. This is not a personal dig at all, but why should one believe that people are just ignorant/stubborn when the people who research and compete in this game for a large part of their living disagree with what you are saying?
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666140#Comment_3666140
Jesterkind, the perks you’ve named are either full of drawbacks, require awkward gameplay that borderline throws the game, or are wildly outclassed by other perks. Better perks.
So here’s a thought experiment: let’s assume they are strong perks.
Why are they so rare to see in gameplay? Why aren’t players consistently running them? Are the perks so good they’re seldom used because people just don’t understand how good they are? People like Otzdarva (this forum’s favorite, right?), Ayrun, Team Eternal, Team Oracle, and other amazing survivor players with thousands of hours in the game? These are the crème of the crop when it comes to survivor players, but are they too dimwitted to recognize just, in your words, how “strong” those perks are?
The answer cannot be yes and no.
What makes a perk strong boils down to three things: what it does, how often situations that require its benefit occur, and how consistently it does what it does. Perks that provide a situational advantage or come in clutch when the stars align aren’t strong; they’re situationally useful. That still makes them weak when measured against perks with broader applications. Strong perks transcend situational value, which is why they become META-relevant.
Yeah I am not sure why this appears to be a difficult concept to grasp for this forum. It almost feels like forced contrarianism.
Content Creators are not above criticism and definitely not omnipotent, but some of them compete for money so if these perks truly were diamonds in the rough it would be widely known.
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I don't understand how this is a problem.
I just makes shift+tech more consistent.
The Blight also played the loop really bad.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665257#Comment_3665257
Their intended goal was to help SoloQ be a little less helpless when entitled players DC at the drop of a hat. If they were intended to help killers, they wouldn’t rescue and do gens. Yes, they hopeless sometimes, but the devs have to make them like that because there’s no fooling them with mind games since they always know where the killer is.
That poster is being disingenuous because they have an agenda against killers. They’re just not being honest. Sure, it can benefit killers, but that benefit is tiny.
*Edit:
Also, my huge bush loves you too 💜
I was asked a question and I answered.
I think its amusing you tell me I have an "agenda" against killers yet since you monitor my posts you should've seen that I never advocate for the killer experience to be worsened. I just want the survivor experience to not be terrible.
DC bots did nothing significant for survivors in bettering their daily experience, which falls in line with what I've been saying for awhile.
Killers get meaningful, significant changes, while survivor changes are very low-effort and do not meaningfully affect the survivor QoL.
You only have to look at how much care they put into Blight's add-on pass compared to what they did to Medkits.
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If you don't understand at this point despite the numerous thinkpieces on the killer then I fear you never will.
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@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
It's possible, but I'd hope not.
Never really chased survivors and felt like "Damn, I can't catch this guy. Must be cause he has Windows."
Really? I think its really obvious when a worse player is running it even when I'm playing survivor because these people don't even try looping they just pre-drop without looking behind them and waste all the pallets.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3664913#Comment_3664913
I know you are immensely survivor sided but lets here it, why are bots so beneficial to the killer? They do gen instantly if out of killer tr which genuinely is more than the average survivor, they dodge certain killer powers far better than you could and they have a couple of base line problems. But that's a lot better than nothing, doesn't matter if killer has pr/pop, you'd be lying to yourself to say that are purely beneficial for killers. Again I know you are super survivor sided but damn, every time you post it gets worse.
I'm not survivor sided. There are just no problems to fight for on the killer side because they have been getting a constant stream of meaningful, positive changes.
Conversely, survivor has been getting nothing but nerfs and low-effort changes in the name of 'balance,' in which survivors are told to get over it because of XYZ reasoning. I am a firm believer that you cannot be 1/4th of a person, so a singular survivor's gameplay experience is equally as important as the killer's. Especially if BHVR is not going to put in effort to enforce teamplay.
Anyways,
Bots were put in so killers can't be denied 4ks/Moris/Adept. If this wasn't the case then they would be a lot smarter instead of being detrimental fodder.
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Not a hot take. The bots were put in purely for killer benefit.
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Not at all.