VomitMommy
VomitMommy
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
Fix all the issues at the same time. It isn't rocket science.
Ok, tell me how to fix it. It isn't rocket science.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
Shifting is fast and the cooldown before you can attack short, so this would simply lead to the killer chasing down survivors as a 6ms killer that can ignore all vaults and as soon as they are close shift for a quick hit.
Bat form is clearly intended for map traversal, not chasing down survivors.
I would definitely want his sound in bat reduced, it's so loud...
That's main reason why it's difficult to use in chase. You are forced to stay in bat for some time and because of how loud bat is, it's very difficult to track survivor.
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Would be hilarious to try time it, so you cleanse it 31 seconds and see if it becomes hex or not.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788319#Comment_3788319
How? You literally can’t attack. Is it broken for wraith or spirit? Plus you have a lullaby, and the bats are easy to see not to mention loud.
Then he would need way higher transformation duration (not being able to attack). I definitely prefer current version.
Spirit can't see survivors and Wraith can't attack immediately.
Bat shouldn't be better than them.... Unlike those two, bat can also teleport.
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Carnifex is meant to be used on pallets and he is better at it than any killer in DBD. He is mage hand on steroids.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788309#Comment_3788309
Perhaps I need more matches then. I'm going against players with a few thousand hours, but he is new as well. That said, I'm still getting 3k games just doing adept while learning his kit.
I think the biggest turning point for both sides is learning that hellfire pillar goes over medium wall loops and not tall walls. I've caught plenty off guard with that, though that won't last long once people learn.
I will say though, the Bat Form teleport has been pretty great in a lot of situations for me. Had one on The Game where someone ran and vaulted the vat room into bottom floor and I was able to teleport, fall into the vat, transform mid vault into vampire form and hit them as soon as I landed. THAT felt great.
Bat is not really great for chase, but it's great on multilayer maps to help with traveling around the map.
Traveling around the map overall is little bit risky, when you are likely to miss survivors. Unless you know exactly, where you are going (Surveillance/Discordance).
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@NoctgamingHD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788312#Comment_3788312
his speed is off the chart man, and the fact he has no CD on attack after tranforming is bad, it give you no time to try to counterplay
If he lands directly on you with Bat, then you got outplayed. Counterplay is before this happens, not after.
You know he can't see you right? It's basically the Spirit from Wish.
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@dwight444 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788301#Comment_3788301
solo q needs help, 100%
still not going agree that proxy camping is fine. Imo, killers in my game don't camp after feeling some gen pressure, they set the tone at the start of the match with the first guy. That's cheesy…
perhaps introduce a mechanic where one of us can trap a killer in a corner while gens get worked on for a bit, at least til the match is more favorable?
perhaps introduce a mechanic where one of us can trap a killer in a corner while gens get worked on for a bit, at least til the match is more favorable?
Lol, that sounds highly abusable and really broken.
You can try to "lock" killer in deadzone, simply always try to chase away from gens, then die in corner. Those chases are highly inefficient for the killer.
I consider relation SWF vs killer to be actually quite balanced.
So help towards soloQ shouldn't change overall balance. It rather should be things that are already easy for SWF.
- show other survivors loadouts (in game)
- chat wheel with basic call outs (going for rescue, need heal etc.)
- option to stay in lobby after the game (keep playing with decent players)
None of those are relevant for SWF, but are quite a big deal for soloQ.
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@dwight444 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788294#Comment_3788294
I didn't say too op, it's too rewarding for the effort and the relative amount of coordination required by the 4 random players. F o u r random players, each with their own perception of what to do, what the match objective is and varying skill levels
Seems like the issue should be help soloQ, not nerf proxy camping...
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@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787988#Comment_3787988
You missed my point. Survivors should not have to rely on anti-tunnel perks to have a chance when there are perks to counter the gen slow down or chase perks that are overall more efficient than the anti-tunnel perks that, when a killer wants to tunnel, they will not provide much use.
And to your point on Letherface being the only killer that can handle a multiple survivor save, that is also kind a point in itself because you need more than one survivor to unhook hopefully without a trade which takes at least two if not the remaining three people off gens. It's gen slowdown without a perk and while some people see it as a proper playstyle, it gets around your above point about everyone needs perks. If the gens don't get done because everyone is working towards an unhook, survivors don't survive.
Anti-tunneling perks will not provide value, when killer wants to tunnel?
It's not like you need to use 4 perks against tunneling. 1 is usually enough.
that is also kind a point in itself because you need more than one survivor to unhook hopefully without a trade which takes at least two if not the remaining three people off gens.
I don't see the issue. This version is safe to do, but you need more survivors, but even single survivor is able to unhook easily unlike before hook grabs were removed.
Sure, you will trade. That's why you don't do it early and keep survivor on the hook to prevent tunneling.
your above point about everyone needs perks
Not really, you can't do it as main playstyle. It's highly inefficient. Especially when it was just nerfed and hook stage takes 70 seconds.
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Not sure, if dying light is the fix…
But I would like to see a reason to go for fresh hooks at least.
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I don't care about "realism".
I can play as Alucard. That's enough. His cape should get better physics tho.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787991#Comment_3787991
hellfire works like this. whatever is above middle sight-line of your hand, your pillars go through. if it too high up above middle of screen than fire-fissure won't go through it.
my experience is that he is fun killer to use but is not very good. I like his kit more then Vecna but his poor abilities making Vecna more appealing to play than him.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787989#Comment_3787989
shouldn't there be better balance to make this less of a problem? Currently their changes are making it more slanted for 4 man.
hellfire works like this. whatever is above middle sight-line of your hand, your pillars go through. if it too high up above middle of screen than fire-fissure won't go through it.
I have found objects, where it can go through only on some spots, but some completely blocks it.
Like those haystacks for example (it was D&D map). For like 90% of it went through, but one spot on side blocked it, while height seemed same. So probably invisible hitbox or something.
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It always had low value. Main benefit is flex in endgame.
Survivors have exactly same benefit from it as killer, but won't get punished for showing it in lobby.
I think it's a good change.
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I actually enjoy playing him quite a lot. He is not really an easy killer to play, but his kit is not that weak.
I mainly need to figure out all obstacles hellfire can go through, it's questionable sometimes…
I don't think he is really strong, but he is simply average. He has 3 powers, which needs to weaker than standard powers.
I definitely prefer him over Vecna.
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@upsideinsanity said:
It seems you all forget about the killer playstyle of proxy camping, downing the rescuer, leaving them in the death state and tunneling the person that was just unhooked.
And don't give me the "but there are anti-tunnel perks" response because no one should have to run a full build of anti-tunnel perks that might only give you a little bit more game time to get around this playstyle while someone else is then bleeding out on the ground. That now makes the game unfun for not just one but two survivors.
I didn't forget just don't see it as an issue.
Either it was last second rescue, which was just now buffed and gave survivors lot of time on gens.
Or survivor did it early in front of the killer, which is missplay and should be punished.
Saying perks should be used to counter, what you struggle with is valid. Everyone needs perks.
It's like saying Legion should be buffed to have better kit for chase. No, use chase perks to fix that.
Or saying gens get done too fast, if you refuse to use slowdown perks. Who would have thought?
If you use suboptimal perks for fun, then you simply shouldn't take the game seriously. When you clearly don't try to win.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787895#Comment_3787895
Learheface, trickster, huntress, hillbilly, deathslinger, etc. are all killers that can camp extremely well. I just picked leatherface because he is the most notable example.
In soloq, unless someone has kindred, there is no way to know a killer is camping until you have been there and seen it which wastes a lot of time.
Camping is a base feature. It requires neither a high amount of skill nor any specific perks (though there are camping support perks like deadlock), however for survivors without comms, as explained above, just getting the info that a killer is camping wastes a lot of time and the only real counter against campers like leatherface, trickster, huntress, etc. is, as you have said, perks or trying to pull insane stunts just to counter someone standing in place.
The amount of effort the killer has to put into camping vs the amount of effort and coordination survivors need to counter it are in no way comparable, which imo isn't good game design.
Only Leatherface have chance to deal with 2+ survivors going for unhook. Most can usually only trade.
Deathslinger can't do even that. He is good only when 1 survivor tries rescue and don't dodge shot.
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They really should allow all killers demo in custom with bots, so players don't have an excuse for lack of knowledge...
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787599#Comment_3787599
You can do the opposite side too, survivors lost way more than killers did and killers also gained a lot more than survivors did.
I‘m not defending OP on this one since there was literally no survivor nerf this update.
You can do the opposite side too, survivors lost way more than killers did and killers also gained a lot more than survivors did.
Ok, do it.
Your statement is not true unless you go several years back. My list would also increase, if you want to do that...
Hey, survivors were beyond busted several years ago, but current killer perks are also way worse compare to those times. Also Mori.
Strongest things players can do were removed/nerfed on both sides.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787599#Comment_3787599
I mean you can't just list a bunch of changes with no context and say it proves anything. All of those changes don't even make that much difference most of the time except for the ultimate weapon nerf which I don't see how anyone could say was not busted, and the anti 3 gen feature which was obviously needed to keep the game playable for both sides. The anti-camp is essentially useless except for face-camping and everything else you listed were very minor changes. The recent changes Bhvr. have made by ruining maps, and just all the new maps in general being full of dead-zones have resulted in a much bigger change to the actual gameplay.
All of those changes don't even make that much difference most of the time
3-gen feature limits killer builds and slowdown nerfs definitely has impact...
I mean you can't just list a bunch of changes with no context
Funny that list of changes aligning with your view is enough, but for opposition it's not allowed....
Btw I forget about Sabo buff. Sabo without getting downed is quite a big deal.
Also STBFL and sloppy nerfs are definitely impactful.
And most recent one +10 seconds on hook is huge, if survivors decide to actually use it.
how anyone could say was not busted
It was too strong on like 3 killers. But I can definitely say it's very over nerfed. That perk is trash now.
anti 3 gen feature which was obviously needed to keep the game playable for both sides
Not really and the game is doing way more than simply fighting 3-gen. Not really 3-gen, when it works whole game...
The anti-camp is essentially useless except for face-camping
So it mostly remove one aspect that survivors hated. Seems impactful to me. Noone liked getting face camped.
everything else you listed were very minor changes
That doesn't work with things you wrote before this.
UW nerfed to oblivion.
Pop nerfed from 30 to 20% is huge.
Removing hugtech gave survivors quite an easy counter play against Blight.
Babysitter buff was big too, I think it's very good anti tunneling perk now.
The recent changes Bhvr. have made by ruining maps, and just all the new maps in general being full of dead-zones have resulted in a much bigger change to the actual gameplay.
I mean you can't just list a bunch of changes with no context and say it proves anything.
Funny how few maps changes actual gameplay of the game and actually basekit changes that work on ANY map doesn't. Simply because it doesn't fit the narrative.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787554#Comment_3787554
I agree with OP that the game has gotten a bit too killer sided lately especially at the lower levels. I don't see how patch notes can tell you much until you see how the changes manifest in actual games. I will say OP I believe (hope) that Bhvr might have realized they have gone a bit too far to the killer side with balance considering they increased the hook timer and looks like they are going to be nerfing some of the more OP "features" such as Weave and Billy.
I don't see how patch notes can tell you much until you see how the changes manifest in actual games.
- slowdown perks nerfs
- anti 3-gen feature
- DS buffed
- several other survivors perks buffed
- anti-camp feature
- hug tech removed from Blight
- Ultimate weapon gutted
Sure, there were also some buffs for specific killers, or their perks. But I would say recent changes were in favor of survivors overall.
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I think either change would kill the perk...
15% can be easily ignored
As 2nd token it's easily removed (definitely not worth running imo)
Hexes are in very week state right now.
I don't think there should be any changes for pentimento, unless there are some major changes to hex perks in general (specific buffs, spawns, protection etc.)
Unlike other hexes, pentimento is not simple high risk/high reward. It's simply slowdown that gets you go out of your way to use it.
Survivors cleansed the totem and are told it's active. They know the location...
Plaything is something you can definitely ignore on most maps.
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Survivors bringing lithe and windows of opportunity just to run to yellow and waste the killer's time
I am in this post and I don't like it...
I never give up on either side tho. Well, games in general.
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@Beaburd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787317#Comment_3787317
Okay, this logic I can understand.
So you're saying that you believe killers have an inherent handicap given to them by the developers putting them at an immediate advantage in every game. Because of that handicap, anything tied (2 man escapes) should be considered a win for the survivors, since they broke even despite being the underdog.
You have lowered the barrier for a survivor win and increased the barrier for a killer win in a standard game setting, because it is easier for the killer to achieve their victory condition.
There are specific exceptions for SWF, but the above is generally true for you in all games otherwise.
That line of reasoning makes sense to me, thank you.So you're saying that you believe killers have an inherent handicap given to them by the developers putting them at an immediate advantage in every game. Because of that handicap, anything tied (2 man escapes) should be considered a win for the survivors, since they broke even despite being the underdog.
I believe handicap is the fact that result of the game is based on 4 different players, where even 1 player can cost whole game. That's why I pointed out soloQ.
What is more likely to happen with matchmaking: finding 1 good player, or 4 good players.
Which team is more likely to have a player give up?
I don't believe 4 good survivors are in disadvantage against equally skilled killer. But that's simply rare to see in soloQ, so I don't have it as expected outcome.
You have lowered the barrier for a survivor win and increased the barrier for a killer win in a standard game setting, because it is easier for the killer to achieve their victory condition.
Well, as I said. I have same standard for full SWF.
I think soloQ needs a help personally. HUD helped and didn't change balance overall that much. There are other possible features like this.
That line of reasoning makes sense to me, thank you.
No problem, it was an interesting exchange considered this is DBD forum...
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I am too lazy, but someone should submit the bug report on Nemesis.
Wiki still claims it to be 20%, so I wonder if the result is simply so small, or it's a bug.
Well, result of this change should be 1.6 meters (20% less for 2 seconds), which seems about right on the video.
Players just expected bigger impact....
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Overall survivors BP gain system needs changes.
I think it should be team based and simply your gain is what it was at moment you escape/die.
I don't care rats will get free BP, you can keep "personal contribution" displayed, so everyone can see they were useless in end game.
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@Beaburd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787050#Comment_3787050
Yes, this was addressed at the very top of the original response I made:
I have to acknowledge that because the developers intentionally leave win conditions ambiguous for the player to decide, any and everyone's interpretation of what constitutes a win, and therefore what the win-rates are is technically correct in their own way. As such I can't really say this viewpoint is wrong.
I am not saying they are wrong for interpreting victory conditions in this way. To quote my second response, the goal of my posts here are:
The post I made that you're responding to was primarily to challenge the logic of your ideas
So to respond to you when you ask:
What if someone considers 2 escapes win for survivors on both sides?
Exactly, so why even try to bring it into argument about balancing, when win rate is clearly highly personal thing.
They can absolutely do that - I have no problem that they do that and I cannot say they are wrong for thinking that way. The developers have intentionally made the game's win conditions subjective and vague, likely to foster inclusivity and encourage debates (like this) that keeps the community active.
But this is a forum for discussion, and the feedback section specifically is a forum for sharing ideas to improve the game. We, the players, post here in hopes of influencing other people to our ideas. We, the readers, (ideally) critically think about those post's contents, question their logic, and help filter through those ideas based on their logical flaws and merits. This is so we can evaluate others thought processes, potentially see new perspectives, and gauge whether or not those ideas relate to us, and in the majority sense, to the playerbase as a whole (which could then potentially prompt change, at the developer's discretion).
So when I see a player who makes a sudden claim that 2 survivors escaping is a survivor victory, immediately includes that result in the survivors' win rates as such to argue for a balanced game, and uses that in a feedback section in an attempt to influence the discussion, I employ that critical thinking. I am not saying they are wrong for doing so, that's their personal choice, but when they make those claims so publicly in an attempt to influence others, I want to find the flaws and levels of bias in that logic so I, and hopefully others, can make more informed decisions on whether or not to accept those ideas for themselves as well.
And so far, I have yet to see a counter-argument to the flaws I presented. All I've had in response to my criticism of the logic is a repetition of the faulty logic under question, and a third party intervention asking why I should question it in the first place. The latter of which I find a bit odd to question in a form of feedback, debate, and critical thinking.
But again, I'll end by stressing that I am not saying anyone is wrong for thinking of win conditions in a particular way - they can do what they want. I'm not even trying to convert someone else to my ideas - I'm well aware that most beliefs are tied to emotions and no amount of logic can change a person's mind in those scenarios. I was just hoping to clarify what logic they used to support their beliefs, which so far seems a bit biased and flawed.
Your whole issue seems with considering 2 escapes win for survivors, that it should be considered tie instead, if you go simply by numbers, right?
Well, even in sports, if side that was less likely to win even ties, that result is going to be considered better compare to other team, no?
If some noname ties with last year champion, for him that result is amazing, even tho it's a tie technically.
So devs want 60% kill rate, which simply means more survivors are going to die on average than escape, which makes survivors (especially soloQ) definitely less likely to win. So the result when two survivors get out is in favor of survivors in my book (at least for soloQ).
For a change I consider 2 kills a loss, when we play full SWF unless it's Nurse, or Blight. Because I know we are the one more likely to win.
Everything depends on chances for victory to me. Basically did you perform better or worse compare to expected outcome?
So that's my reasoning behind that statement.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787112#Comment_3787112
Most basekit features in last year or so were in favor of survivors, which doesn't support your claim.I don't care about specific changes. The overall goal which they clearly are going for/change stuff up to uphold is 60% kill rate. The specific changes mentioned by either side serves no other purpose then to get away from the main point of discussion. 60% kill rate is just way too much. It's literally 50% more kills then escapes. That's just WRONG.
In time when the game was balanced (around 50% kr - and it was on average 52+% kill rate if I remember right for a long time since 6.1) the game was fun. Now it's so fun I actually uninstalled.
One thing I give you though is the situation where someone gives up. Yes, this is actually good point. The thing is, that if he DC's, it's not counted. If killer gives up, but doesn't DC, that is also counted. Sure, this can happen more on survivor side. But not that much, that it's fair for killers to get 50% more wins then survivor. Otherwise it would mean we have serious problem with people giving up basically every like 4th game (I didn't do math, so if it's every 5th game, so be it) and devs should really do something about it - but that's not the case AFAIK (at least not THAT often).
Also survivor escaping thru hatch is fully counted in statistics as survivor escape - even though it's tie. So it should be discarded in this regards.
If you don't get to escape regularly as SWF it's skill issue.Sure. Even with 99% kill rate if you are literal god and play against newbies, you will win every game. The difference is, that the game is so balanced, that 2K "wins" (3+kills) are done on killer's side, but there is no survivor's record for 3+out for at least 500 games (at least not since the very early stages of the game). This argument is similar to going for a running race, but "you can win even with severly injured leg - it's possible and if you can't compete against other competitors that get free backwind from fan that will follow them whole track, then that's skill issue". Meaning you can overcome malus, but that doesn't make it fair.
I don't care about specific changes
I would guess that's what actually matters, they made game easier for survivors...
60% kill rate is just way too much
In your opinion. I like their goal and I think it's reasonable.
In time when the game was balanced (around 50% kr - and it was on average 52+% kill rate if I remember right for a long time since 6.1) the game was fun.
I personally didn't enjoy queue times on survivors...
Queue times are good on both sides now, so definitely better for me.
Now it's so fun I actually uninstalled.
Oh no, anyway...
The thing is, that if he DC's, it's not counted.
In my games most survivors die on hook to dodge penalty.
If killer gives up, but doesn't DC, that is also counted.
Kinda funny, it's exactly opposite for me. It's so rare to see killer give early, usually it's when we are about to escape anyway, so doesn't matter. Otherwise it's always DC, which doesn't count.
it would mean we have serious problem with people giving up basically every like 4th game
I see quite a lot of posts to complain about this with soloQ. I would increase penalty and try to fix giving up on hook. If you don't want to play the game, then don't play at all…
but there is no survivor's record for 3+out for at least 500 games
That's not true, it was done in past. I think Otz talked about them in his video and they were supposed to do it again later. In both cases they were supposed to give up instead actually losing, because it was boring...
Hens did 200+ survivor win streak like a year ago. While they limited themselves to not have any perk more than twice.
Survivors that actually commit to genrush can reliably escape under 4 minutes. Most killers can't do anything about that. Luckily it's very boring gameplay.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787050#Comment_3787050
1, what if you have someone who considers 2 escapes killers win on both sides? It makes no difference.
2, I agree that the balance from survivor side is 2 escapes and 2 kills. It's the exact middle ground which is statistically best represented by 50% kill rate. But that's not what DBD is actually aiming for. They want to on average to have 1 or 2 escapes and 2 to 3 kills (because 60% kill rate). Hence the game is killer-sided and favors killers.
And if you have 60% kill rate, it means you will more often then not NOT get an escape as survivor. Because killers "deserve" 50% more kills then survivor escapes in devs eyes
what if you have someone who considers 2 escapes killers win on both sides? It makes no difference.
Exactly, so why even try to bring it into argument about balancing, when win rate is clearly highly personal thing.
It's the exact middle ground which is statistically best represented by 50% kill rate
No, it's not. Because you have quite a high chance one of survivors is either simply bad, or just give up.
If survivor gives up, whole team is most likely die, which is 3/4k, right?
So if you get average kill rate on 50%, it means groups without cowards are going to have an easy time. We had those kill rates in past and I really don't think it was better.
Hence the game is killer-sided and favors killers.
Not really, they just count with examples I mentioned above.
Most basekit features in last year or so were in favor of survivors, which doesn't support your claim.
Because killers "deserve" 50% more kills then survivor escapes in devs eyes
They don't deserve anything, there simply should be higher kill rates for this game to work.
it means you will more often then not NOT get an escape as survivor
Depends,
If you don't get to escape regularly as SWF it's skill issue.
In soloQ you can have dead weights for sure, but if it happens regularly, you may be the dead weight.
But I think they should help soloQ, there are possible features to help without screwing balance.
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@Beaburd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787015#Comment_3787015
The post I made that you're responding to was primarily to challenge the logic of your ideas, but you're just regurgitating the ideas again without addressing the criticism towards them.
The first paragraph in your response is repeating the concept that wins and losses should be based solely from the perspective of the killer (i.e. if the killer does not win, the survivor must be the winner). But this logic is faulty because if you change the perspective to the survivor with this train of thought, then the killer is the winner with 2 escaping. As a result, from the survivor's perspective, it artificially inflates the killer's win-rate to the point they become grossly overpowered and in need of immediate and harsh nerfs. Likewise, when you do it from the killer's perspective, it artificially inflates the survivor's win rate.
The last paragraph takes my quote out of context (it was a hypothetical scenario if the perspective changed to benefit the survivor) and repeats the same concept that the determination of who wins should be entirely based on the killer's perspective. But until addressed, that logic is still faulty since perspectives change depending on which side you're on, and focusing on only one leads to significant bias in the results.
They also have special rules to eliminate said problem. Sometimes they're not enforced and they're just as number of scoreboard with the idea that the goal of tournament to score most # of points. if point are equal, they play tie-breaker match.
Yes, I specifically mentioned that sports include special rules or situations (like overtime) to reduce the frequency of ties/draws.
Despite those rules existing though, it is still possible to get a tie in many sports, such as, but not limited to, the following:- American Football
- European Football (AKA soccer)
- Baseball
- Basketball
- Ice hockey
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tie_%28draw%29#Examples_of_multi-player_games
Draws, while actively discouraged and reduced through additional rules, are still a natural part of many sports competitions to signify that neither team was able to get a significant advantage over the other. The term draw is also rarely ever utilized in games that are prematurely terminated, since the definition of a draw means a tie occurred, but you cannot claim a tie occurs if a match does not conclude.
That said, it still not address the logical flaws I highlighted in the idea that if a game terminates in DBD, it must be a draw. That leads to paradoxical situations requiring additional rules, which in itself proves the logic is faulty.
But this logic is faulty because if you change the perspective to the survivor with this train of thought, then the killer is the winner with 2 escaping
What if someone considers 2 escapes win for survivors on both sides?
But for most players, it's personal result. Even hatch can be considered "win" for that single survivor.
For many players it seems escape = win.
So for 2K, you simply have two survivors that won, and two survivors who lost.
Basically when approach changes is for SWF, where they are more likely consider the result of the game as a team.
I have it even easier, I couldn't care less, if I escape or die. I consider it a win, if I got a good chase. Except when we play SWF...
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Bots can be actually good against some killers.
They work on gens at least and can be a menace with flashlights. Some of blinds they get I didn't know was possible.
I think it would be funny to have option hide "bot" tag. Would be hilarious in custom to try 3 bots and 1 player. You can only kill the player, if you kill a bot, then you lost.
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Let's ask this philosophical question...
I can understand sore losers, but why sore winners exist is very good question.
Simply toxic human beings wasting oxygen.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787007#Comment_3787007
there is just no killer that believes that 2k is winning for one unless your super egotistical or something. in fact, there are some killer that are not happy with 3k and will even slug 3 to get 4th as they only deem 4k as a win. Over-time though, when you play enough killer games, you just bored of doing a slug at the end because the time and effort to get 4k isn't really worth it in most cases over just playing more dbd matches. It is not really worth it to prologue game for like 3-4 minutes for what might just end up as slug kill when you could those 3-4 minutes on another match. like if you play 4 matches of 3-4 minute of slugging, those 3-4 minutes could been spent to play 5th match but like i said, some people get their joy from that. i personally think its poor designed end game that forces rng into conclusions of the matches which is why i don't really put much difference been 3k and 4k's.
This why sports have the concept of draws that apply when opposing teams have the same score
They also have special rules to eliminate said problem. Sometimes they're not enforced and they're just as number of scoreboard with the idea that the goal of tournament to score most # of points. if point are equal, they play tie-breaker match.
Killers therefore win almost twice as many games as survivor and clearly overpowered beyond belief and deserve rapid and brutal nerfs.
In just over half the games, half of the team is escaping every trial. I believe dev have once said they balance around 2 survivors escaping and 2 people dying every match, so at least according to raw stats, they're pretty much on mark. For me, what matters is my fun in playing survivor and killer. The perk updates for survivor do keep survivor interesting enough for me to have some fun with it. If we ask the question whether i have fun with killers? For a lot of them. Not really. Every now and again, you get this unavoidable loss as killer with majority of the cast. The win-rate stats in my opinion are carried by stronger killers who win too much while the lower end of the killer cast drag win-rates down. If you were to remove like top 12-14 killers with positive win-rates, i imagine that the killer's win ratio is much more negative especially if it the list only included like bottom 12 killers and their associated win-rate vs like… 1% of survivors if there even any statistics on that consider that i imagine that lots of the worse killer might not face the very top of survivor unless the matchmaker is lax.
I agree for a change with most of what you wrote, but this part is incorrect:
The win-rate stats in my opinion are carried by stronger killers who win too much while the lower end of the killer cast drag win-rates down.
Stronger killers are often more difficult than average, so their kill rate is not that high in reality.
I think it's more likely kill rates are carried by soloQ and noob stomping killers…
Also cowards don't help, when survivor gives up, everyone else usually die for it too.
Nightlight might suggest otherwise, but not official stats we got from devs.
Issue is new/casual players simply don't care about Nightlight, or probably even know about it. They are definitely affecting kill rates.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786514#Comment_3786514
Free escape. FREE. Not RNG.
Where is the RNG in face camping a hook?
It's not really FREE for most killers at least. It is possible to get everyone out, mainly if survivors have perks for it.
So RNG factor is survivors. How they will react? What is their build?
Sure, if killer is Bubba, or Huntress, then someone is most likely going to die unless there is big missplay. Not impossible tho
If you want hatch to be FREE, you just need perk for location and key.
Even you don't always get something, it can be considered FREE.
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@FreddyVoorhees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786790#Comment_3786790
He literally IS Bram Stoker's Dracula. It is revealed in the final few ova episodes. Even his name is Dracula backwards.
Nobody remembers this resurrection of Drac ? :https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2ML187G88NYT/lod-dracula.gif
My bad then, I don't remember this part. It's many ears since I have seen it. I just remember he was savage :D
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I would like something close to the show version…
I would love to see this one and I don't care it's not a Dracula
EDIT: Seems like he is, so even better.
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@VirosaAmanita said:
this guy has to get my vote for a skin
I would never play anything else...
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Many survivors seem to think, that it's hopeless the moment they started the game....
I would increase the penalty instead.
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Yes, I don't see any reason to run it over No Way Out.
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Why some people never learn to format their posts/comments...
Also would be nice to be somewhat consistent with your statements. This is random text generator.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786474#Comment_3786474
Actions speak louder than words.
Their actions fit the statement...
There were buffs and nerfs for both sides.
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Survivors? No
SoloQ? Sure
There are possible features to improve soloQ without affecting SWF, or killers in major way.
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Lol, 5 seconds is way too much for his power.
I kinda like current version, because it gives Billy option to be ambitious with their curves, which makes his chase unique and fun (for me).
If he was severely punished for using this, then you are going to see way more M1 hits, which is boring.
He would be suddenly way more difficult to learn and play, if he was punished so much.
Funny is with your examples, what about comparing charge times too? None of them has higher charge time than Billy, but that doesn't fit the narrative…
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
So once the killer has effectively lost and they have "nothing else to do", why is the killer entitled to a free kill, or more free downs and hooks?
Let's flip it around the other way. Let's say the killer has crushed the game, everyone is slugged on the floor, or 3 people are dead and there's one person left. Why do the survivors deserve a free escape, or lots of more free chances for escape?
No, when you flip it around, there is the hatch...
Also 4% attempts.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785357#Comment_3785357
Reading your conversations, I'm so glad I ended up this dialogue on the moment, where he said that survivors dodging m2 is only my fault kekw
Don't read those. It's bad for your eyes and brain.
Well, we are on DBD forum, so I guess everyone is lost case...
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@bermudinskas said:
you're wrong, that does impact the game but clearly doesn't change the fact that the killers are op. Like zone god knight who essentially is not one killer but three or w/e how can you even succeed looping against this. Just had a game against deathslinger, dude shoots straight through obstacles, two times in a row, and every game i played against deathslinger it's always the case.
Just had a game against deathslinger, dude shoots straight through obstacles, two times in a row, and every game i played against deathslinger it's always the case.
Yes, his thing is a small projectile, so he can shoot through holes etc.
Most killers are loopable, if you want to learn how, then simply play them and copy what other survivors are going to do against you. -
@BurnedHusk said:
allow the low mobility killers to run multiple gen slowdown perks, but force mobile ones to only have one or two “gen perk slots”.
Doesn't really work. For example Wraith would be considered high mobility, but he is not really that good.
You can't really do it by kill rate either, because those killers don't have high average kill rate.
Nurse technically is not even high mobility killer...
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I am fine with this after changes they are about to do...
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785476#Comment_3785476
isn't it wasted of bp considering she's going to get deleted?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785456#Comment_3785456
knight is getting deleted this tuesday with his 30s assassin and SM will soon follow.
isn't it wasted of bp considering she's going to get deleted?
I would like to believe they won't completely screw her and I really like her skins…
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Survivors are granted the ability to "Give up" or "Surrender" on hook at any time, by pressing the Active Ability button. (Pressing this button will automatically sacrifice the hooked Survivor)
Not sure why, but at least replace the survivor with bot
When the Killer has hooked a Survivor, the Killer can no longer see the aura of the hooked Survivor.
Like the location of the hook? Seems irrelevant, I know where I hooked.
The Killer can no longer be notified when a Survivor has been rescued off the hook, until the Endgame.
Not doing much, I can see the icon.
When a Survivor has been unhooked, the unhooked Survivor and the rescuer both have their scratch marks and pools of bloods hidden for the next 7 seconds.
I am fine with unhooked survivor, but why rescuer? That should be valid target to chase.
I would definitely want changes to also actually give a reason to hook fresh survivors, or give killer an option to find them.