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Vert3x

Vert3x

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Vert3x
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  • @Didiez said:
    Yeah, like the idea of exhaustion don't recover when running is for counter those sprint burst or Dead hard infinite loops. But it's not a bad Idea, I would use it in my builds.

    There was nothing infinite with that, aside from Dead Hard being a pretty predictable perk to go up against, nothing was ever infinite, you simply found yourself dealing with them during a chase instead of at the beginning of it, that's it; and this change would also make it way weaker than it used to be.

    I can bet this perk wouldn't even be any close to be too strong, just trust me instead of fearing any idea!
    This is exactly what makes genrush a thing: limiting anything to survivors makes them feel more and more oppressed and will force them to only focus on sitting on generators, that's how it works.

    in Vigil buff to make Exhaustion slowly but surely recover while running. Comment by Vert3x

  • @Khroalthemadbomber said:
    While I am a fan of discussions can we please take the time to only quote the part an individual said and not have this massive behemoth that constantly tags me for a conversation that it seems like I am no longer a part of.

    On that note, to the people that liked my idea thanks ^_^

    You're right, I'm sorry about that, I'm really unpractical with this forum style, quoting usually doesn't straight up report all the seasoned posts that have been previously quoted, or at least that was what I remembered about other forums.

    in Vigil buff to make Exhaustion slowly but surely recover while running. Comment by Vert3x

  • @Vert3x said:

    @KiraElijah said:
    Vert3x said:

    @TreemanXD said:

    I play both sides a lot (mainly survivor) and I think this would result in the (almost) infinite sprint burst loop. Exhaustion is fine the way it is.

    @se05239 said:

 @KiraElijah said:

    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops

    I don't want that ######### back.

    Again, it was nowhere close to being infinite. It was possible to get Sprint Burst activated while running if you had already previously recovered from Exhaustion by walking, and also, it would be way slower than the old mid-chase activating Sprint Burst.

    @KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @KiraElijah said:

    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops

    They weren't really infinite loops, they simply happened to use Sprint Burst mid-chase when they had already recovered a part of Exhaustion, which is what could happen with the change that I have in mind.> @KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @Acromio said:

    No.

    /thread

    I was just waiting for the that typical kind of player that denies any chance to survivors.

    Now tell me what you think that is overpowered about this, since that's you guys' standard pattern.

    Excuse me? How did he deny any chance for survivors? What’s your rank?

    What are you even talking about? Of course my rank is 1, and what I'm saying is that as soon as one comes up with a good idea for a survivor perk some killer mains will have to be dicks about it and deny anything that could possibly be interesting for survivors.

    @Arroz said:

    @Acromio said:

    No.

    /thread

    Typical killer main who wants to survivors receive all the nerf and killers the buff, remember this is asymetrical, both sides need to be balanced ;)

    That one kind of killer main is not capable of reasoning with as much logic, I think you're going too far with him, saying hard words like "asymmetrical" is already op to him, he's already feeling confused and oppressed

    You say he can’t apply logic, however you just insult people who don’t agree with you?... Also, once again. How did he deny all chance to survivors?? Survivor is pretty easy, Killer is infuriating.

    One thing is constructively disagreeing with a point, and one thing is being a dick putting the /thread trying to show omnipotence while you're just an useless jerk. If one behaves like that, you can already stop expecting me to be nice at them.

    Now, about him denying all chance to survivors, once again, I was referring to disagreeing to the minimal buff to a dead survivor perk.

    I can give you a good comparison: Spies from the Shadows got a significative buff that brought it from a useless perk to an average tracking perk.

    Now, although I am a survivor main, I'm fine with that change and I'm not gonna ######### about it.

    That's exactly where the difference between me and that scumbag lays, I do accept my opponent to get buffed when needed and accept to have to improve my playstyle in specific situations and to be required to be more careful on my moves.

    An entitled killer main like that guy is just gonna deny even the most minimal buff to a currently useless perk that would bring it up to an average tier at most, and that kind of person is probably who ruins DbD's community.

    The way he replied is just making me feel like killer mains are just getting spoiled right now, and if you want people not to think so, at least avoid defending their non-existing points and their complete lack of interest into making the game better for everyone.

    Just thinking about the way you pretty arrogantly claimed survivor to be easy and killer to be infuriating;

    how did you play survivor to conclude that it's easy to play it? Did you play rank 1 versus good killers with random teammates or did you simply play a 4 man SWF group? Because if that's the case, it's like I came up to you claiming that killer is easy because I just had a 3 blinks nurse game with Hex: Ruin, BBQ and all the meta perks on and I won many games with that loadout.

    Playing SWF is sure easy when teammates are good just like playing Nurse is, but you can't use a single way you play that role to assert that it's easy to play it.> @TreemanXD said:

    KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @KiraElijah said:

    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops



They weren't really infinite loops, they simply happened to use Sprint Burst mid-chase when they had already recovered a part of Exhaustion, which is what could happen with the change that I have in mind.> @KiraElijah said:

@Vert3x said:

@Acromio said:

No.

/thread



I was just waiting for the that typical kind of player that denies any chance to survivors.

Now tell me what you think that is overpowered about this, since that's you guys' standard pattern.



Excuse me? How did he deny any chance for survivors? What’s your rank?



What are you even talking about? Of course my rank is 1, and what I'm saying is that as soon as one comes up with a good idea for a survivor perk some killer mains will have to be dicks about it and deny anything that could possibly be interesting for survivors.

@Arroz said:

@Acromio said:

No.

/thread



Typical killer main who wants to survivors receive all the nerf and killers the buff, remember this is asymetrical, both sides need to be balanced ;)



That one kind of killer main is not capable of reasoning with as much logic, I think you're going too far with him, saying hard words like "asymmetrical" is already op to him, he's already feeling confused and oppressed



You say he can’t apply logic, however you just insult people who don’t agree with you?... Also, once again. How did he deny all chance to survivors?? Survivor is pretty easy, Killer is infuriating.

    However I don’t find either role infuriating I can agree that he is just insulting people with a different POV.

    Just telling you too, I'm insulting people that behave like jerks, I'm not gonna insult anybody that disagrees with my point as long as they're gonna try to argue about what could be so strong about it.> @Khroalthemadbomber said:

    Arroz said:

    You make laugh XDD, if killers main see this post they are just gonna cry..



Killer main here myself though my face is dry. Honestly though I've got no issue with the idea of Vigil allowing it at a MUCH slower rate while running, but also as @TigerKirby215 said, people will only use it for the Exhaustion benefit and nothing else.

    With a name like Vigil I imagine it being something to promote a Flight or Fight response in a survivor, so perhaps rework it so that instead of healing faster from blind and mangled (since let's be honest the only real aggravating versions versions of those are permenant) let's have it also boost detection perks. Faster cooldown on Prem, longer range from Spine Chill, perhaps a SLIGHT increase to the aura detection time of Dark Sense and Alert. Have these in addition to the slow restoration of Exhaustion while running and I see it working just fine.

    I don't think it should go on and affect everything, I believe it should stay bonded to shortening cooldowns, sure it should however affect perks like Quick & Quiet, Premonition, Dance with me and so on, but I don't think there's a need for it to go beyond cooldowns, it'd just get out of concept to make it also affect aura detection time and range or any other thing.

    Pretty cool idea by the way, maybe they should just grab all the cooldown perks and add that little note "- Affected by Vigil" which killer add-ons used to have for Tinkerer.

    I play solo stealth, and tbh I find it much easier

    Yeah, playing stealth is just like genrushing to me: it is really efficient and probably, for some odd reason, what the designers want you do to in the game, but it is really boring for my playstyle.> @Acromio said:


    ^
    |

    Yeah, better keep on laughing at your own unreasonableness, you get your points proven wrong and you just quit the conversation, good job on your self humiliation.> @TreemanXD said:

    Vert3x said:

    @TreemanXD said:

    I play both sides a lot (mainly survivor) and I think this would result in the (almost) infinite sprint burst loop. Exhaustion is fine the way it is.

    @se05239 said:

 @KiraElijah said:

    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops

    I don't want that ######### back.

    Again, it was nowhere close to being infinite. It was possible to get Sprint Burst activated while running if you had already previously recovered from Exhaustion by walking, and also, it would be way slower than the old mid-chase activating Sprint Burst.

    @KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @KiraElijah said:

    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops

    They weren't really infinite loops, they simply happened to use Sprint Burst mid-chase when they had already recovered a part of Exhaustion, which is what could happen with the change that I have in mind.> @KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @Acromio said:

    No.

    /thread

    I was just waiting for the that typical kind of player that denies any chance to survivors.

    Now tell me what you think that is overpowered about this, since that's you guys' standard pattern.

    Excuse me? How did he deny any chance for survivors? What’s your rank?

    What are you even talking about? Of course my rank is 1, and what I'm saying is that as soon as one comes up with a good idea for a survivor perk some killer mains will have to be dicks about it and deny anything that could possibly be interesting for survivors.

    @Arroz said:

    @Acromio said:

    No.

    /thread

    Typical killer main who wants to survivors receive all the nerf and killers the buff, remember this is asymetrical, both sides need to be balanced ;)

    That one kind of killer main is not capable of reasoning with as much logic, I think you're going too far with him, saying hard words like "asymmetrical" is already op to him, he's already feeling confused and oppressed

    You say he can’t apply logic, however you just insult people who don’t agree with you?... Also, once again. How did he deny all chance to survivors?? Survivor is pretty easy, Killer is infuriating.

    One thing is constructively disagreeing with a point, and one thing is being a dick putting the /thread trying to show omnipotence while you're just an useless jerk. If one behaves like that, you can already stop expecting me to be nice at them.

    Now, about him denying all chance to survivors, once again, I was referring to disagreeing to the minimal buff to a dead survivor perk.

    I can give you a good comparison: Spies from the Shadows got a significative buff that brought it from a useless perk to an average tracking perk.

    Now, although I am a survivor main, I'm fine with that change and I'm not gonna ######### about it.

    That's exactly where the difference between me and that scumbag lays, I do accept my opponent to get buffed when needed and accept to have to improve my playstyle in specific situations and to be required to be more careful on my moves.

    An entitled killer main like that guy is just gonna deny even the most minimal buff to a currently useless perk that would bring it up to an average tier at most, and that kind of person is probably who ruins DbD's community.

    The way he replied is just making me feel like killer mains are just getting spoiled right now, and if you want people not to think so, at least avoid defending their non-existing points and their complete lack of interest into making the game better for everyone.

    Just thinking about the way you pretty arrogantly claimed survivor to be easy and killer to be infuriating;

    how did you play survivor to conclude that it's easy to play it? Did you play rank 1 versus good killers with random teammates or did you simply play a 4 man SWF group? Because if that's the case, it's like I came up to you claiming that killer is easy because I just had a 3 blinks nurse game with Hex: Ruin, BBQ and all the meta perks on and I won many games with that loadout.

    Playing SWF is sure easy when teammates are good just like playing Nurse is, but you can't use a single way you play that role to assert that it's easy to play it.> @TreemanXD said:

    KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @KiraElijah said:

    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops



They weren't really infinite loops, they simply happened to use Sprint Burst mid-chase when they had already recovered a part of Exhaustion, which is what could happen with the change that I have in mind.> @KiraElijah said:

@Vert3x said:

@Acromio said:

No.

/thread



I was just waiting for the that typical kind of player that denies any chance to survivors.

Now tell me what you think that is overpowered about this, since that's you guys' standard pattern.



Excuse me? How did he deny any chance for survivors? What’s your rank?



What are you even talking about? Of course my rank is 1, and what I'm saying is that as soon as one comes up with a good idea for a survivor perk some killer mains will have to be dicks about it and deny anything that could possibly be interesting for survivors.

@Arroz said:

@Acromio said:

No.

/thread



Typical killer main who wants to survivors receive all the nerf and killers the buff, remember this is asymetrical, both sides need to be balanced ;)



That one kind of killer main is not capable of reasoning with as much logic, I think you're going too far with him, saying hard words like "asymmetrical" is already op to him, he's already feeling confused and oppressed



You say he can’t apply logic, however you just insult people who don’t agree with you?... Also, once again. How did he deny all chance to survivors?? Survivor is pretty easy, Killer is infuriating.

    However I don’t find either role infuriating I can agree that he is just insulting people with a different POV.

    Just telling you too, I'm insulting people that behave like jerks, I'm not gonna insult anybody that disagrees with my point as long as they're gonna try to argue about what could be so strong about it.> @Khroalthemadbomber said:

    Arroz said:

    You make laugh XDD, if killers main see this post they are just gonna cry..



Killer main here myself though my face is dry. Honestly though I've got no issue with the idea of Vigil allowing it at a MUCH slower rate while running, but also as @TigerKirby215 said, people will only use it for the Exhaustion benefit and nothing else.

    With a name like Vigil I imagine it being something to promote a Flight or Fight response in a survivor, so perhaps rework it so that instead of healing faster from blind and mangled (since let's be honest the only real aggravating versions versions of those are permenant) let's have it also boost detection perks. Faster cooldown on Prem, longer range from Spine Chill, perhaps a SLIGHT increase to the aura detection time of Dark Sense and Alert. Have these in addition to the slow restoration of Exhaustion while running and I see it working just fine.

    I don't think it should go on and affect everything, I believe it should stay bonded to shortening cooldowns, sure it should however affect perks like Quick & Quiet, Premonition, Dance with me and so on, but I don't think there's a need for it to go beyond cooldowns, it'd just get out of concept to make it also affect aura detection time and range or any other thing.

    Pretty cool idea by the way, maybe they should just grab all the cooldown perks and add that little note "- Affected by Vigil" which killer add-ons used to have for Tinkerer.

    Until recently you and another who’s name I will not say have been the only “jerks” 

    @TreemanXD said:
    Someone else said because we disagree with this buff that we’re denying any chances to survivor..... But sure call everyone who disagrees with you a jerk

    I don't get where you want to get by defending him, as long as one tries to disagree with my ideas by bringing in valid points I'm fine with discussing, but if one just acts like a dick I don't see a reason to show any mercy to him, that's the type of person that ruins this community (and general online communities) and mocking him is the least I can do, especially since that's what he also does with my ideas as I was expecting (even if I didn't provoke him, I can guarantee that's the type of person that would've still been arguing with "LOL" and "git gud" images).

    This idea is really hard to be proven to be overpowered due to how slow one would recover from Exhaustion anyways, therefore if one really wants to prove it to be unbalanced you wanna bring in some decent arguments, a "LOL" image is not gonna scare me, he's just showing me how far his childishness can get.

    One could even come up to me being like "It would be way too strong, op" or anything like that, I can try to explain you why it wouldn't and you can try to explain me why it would, but if one just starts #########-posting there's no reason why I should be nice to him, he's being dick at me and I'll be a dick at him.

    in Vigil buff to make Exhaustion slowly but surely recover while running. Comment by Vert3x

  • @KiraElijah said:
    Vert3x said:

    @TreemanXD said:

    I play both sides a lot (mainly survivor) and I think this would result in the (almost) infinite sprint burst loop. Exhaustion is fine the way it is.

    @se05239 said:

 @KiraElijah said:

    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops

    I don't want that ######### back.

    Again, it was nowhere close to being infinite. It was possible to get Sprint Burst activated while running if you had already previously recovered from Exhaustion by walking, and also, it would be way slower than the old mid-chase activating Sprint Burst.

    @KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @KiraElijah said:

    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops

    They weren't really infinite loops, they simply happened to use Sprint Burst mid-chase when they had already recovered a part of Exhaustion, which is what could happen with the change that I have in mind.> @KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @Acromio said:

    No.

    /thread

    I was just waiting for the that typical kind of player that denies any chance to survivors.

    Now tell me what you think that is overpowered about this, since that's you guys' standard pattern.

    Excuse me? How did he deny any chance for survivors? What’s your rank?

    What are you even talking about? Of course my rank is 1, and what I'm saying is that as soon as one comes up with a good idea for a survivor perk some killer mains will have to be dicks about it and deny anything that could possibly be interesting for survivors.

    @Arroz said:

    @Acromio said:

    No.

    /thread

    Typical killer main who wants to survivors receive all the nerf and killers the buff, remember this is asymetrical, both sides need to be balanced ;)

    That one kind of killer main is not capable of reasoning with as much logic, I think you're going too far with him, saying hard words like "asymmetrical" is already op to him, he's already feeling confused and oppressed

    You say he can’t apply logic, however you just insult people who don’t agree with you?... Also, once again. How did he deny all chance to survivors?? Survivor is pretty easy, Killer is infuriating.

    One thing is constructively disagreeing with a point, and one thing is being a dick putting the /thread trying to show omnipotence while you're just an useless jerk. If one behaves like that, you can already stop expecting me to be nice at them.

    Now, about him denying all chance to survivors, once again, I was referring to disagreeing to the minimal buff to a dead survivor perk.

    I can give you a good comparison: Spies from the Shadows got a significative buff that brought it from a useless perk to an average tracking perk.

    Now, although I am a survivor main, I'm fine with that change and I'm not gonna ######### about it.

    That's exactly where the difference between me and that scumbag lays, I do accept my opponent to get buffed when needed and accept to have to improve my playstyle in specific situations and to be required to be more careful on my moves.

    An entitled killer main like that guy is just gonna deny even the most minimal buff to a currently useless perk that would bring it up to an average tier at most, and that kind of person is probably who ruins DbD's community.

    The way he replied is just making me feel like killer mains are just getting spoiled right now, and if you want people not to think so, at least avoid defending their non-existing points and their complete lack of interest into making the game better for everyone.

    Just thinking about the way you pretty arrogantly claimed survivor to be easy and killer to be infuriating;

    how did you play survivor to conclude that it's easy to play it? Did you play rank 1 versus good killers with random teammates or did you simply play a 4 man SWF group? Because if that's the case, it's like I came up to you claiming that killer is easy because I just had a 3 blinks nurse game with Hex: Ruin, BBQ and all the meta perks on and I won many games with that loadout.

    Playing SWF is sure easy when teammates are good just like playing Nurse is, but you can't use a single way you play that role to assert that it's easy to play it.> @TreemanXD said:

    KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @KiraElijah said:

    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops



They weren't really infinite loops, they simply happened to use Sprint Burst mid-chase when they had already recovered a part of Exhaustion, which is what could happen with the change that I have in mind.> @KiraElijah said:

@Vert3x said:

@Acromio said:

No.

/thread



I was just waiting for the that typical kind of player that denies any chance to survivors.

Now tell me what you think that is overpowered about this, since that's you guys' standard pattern.



Excuse me? How did he deny any chance for survivors? What’s your rank?



What are you even talking about? Of course my rank is 1, and what I'm saying is that as soon as one comes up with a good idea for a survivor perk some killer mains will have to be dicks about it and deny anything that could possibly be interesting for survivors.

@Arroz said:

@Acromio said:

No.

/thread



Typical killer main who wants to survivors receive all the nerf and killers the buff, remember this is asymetrical, both sides need to be balanced ;)



That one kind of killer main is not capable of reasoning with as much logic, I think you're going too far with him, saying hard words like "asymmetrical" is already op to him, he's already feeling confused and oppressed



You say he can’t apply logic, however you just insult people who don’t agree with you?... Also, once again. How did he deny all chance to survivors?? Survivor is pretty easy, Killer is infuriating.

    However I don’t find either role infuriating I can agree that he is just insulting people with a different POV.

    Just telling you too, I'm insulting people that behave like jerks, I'm not gonna insult anybody that disagrees with my point as long as they're gonna try to argue about what could be so strong about it.> @Khroalthemadbomber said:

    Arroz said:

    You make laugh XDD, if killers main see this post they are just gonna cry..



Killer main here myself though my face is dry. Honestly though I've got no issue with the idea of Vigil allowing it at a MUCH slower rate while running, but also as @TigerKirby215 said, people will only use it for the Exhaustion benefit and nothing else.

    With a name like Vigil I imagine it being something to promote a Flight or Fight response in a survivor, so perhaps rework it so that instead of healing faster from blind and mangled (since let's be honest the only real aggravating versions versions of those are permenant) let's have it also boost detection perks. Faster cooldown on Prem, longer range from Spine Chill, perhaps a SLIGHT increase to the aura detection time of Dark Sense and Alert. Have these in addition to the slow restoration of Exhaustion while running and I see it working just fine.

    I don't think it should go on and affect everything, I believe it should stay bonded to shortening cooldowns, sure it should however affect perks like Quick & Quiet, Premonition, Dance with me and so on, but I don't think there's a need for it to go beyond cooldowns, it'd just get out of concept to make it also affect aura detection time and range or any other thing.

    Pretty cool idea by the way, maybe they should just grab all the cooldown perks and add that little note "- Affected by Vigil" which killer add-ons used to have for Tinkerer.

    I play solo stealth, and tbh I find it much easier

    Yeah, playing stealth is just like genrushing to me: it is really efficient and probably, for some odd reason, what the designers want you do to in the game, but it is really boring for my playstyle.> @Acromio said:


    ^
    |

    Yeah, better keep on laughing at your own unreasonableness, you get your points proven wrong and you just quit the conversation, good job on your self humiliation.> @TreemanXD said:

    Vert3x said:

    @TreemanXD said:

    I play both sides a lot (mainly survivor) and I think this would result in the (almost) infinite sprint burst loop. Exhaustion is fine the way it is.

    @se05239 said:

 @KiraElijah said:

    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops

    I don't want that ######### back.

    Again, it was nowhere close to being infinite. It was possible to get Sprint Burst activated while running if you had already previously recovered from Exhaustion by walking, and also, it would be way slower than the old mid-chase activating Sprint Burst.

    @KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @KiraElijah said:

    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops

    They weren't really infinite loops, they simply happened to use Sprint Burst mid-chase when they had already recovered a part of Exhaustion, which is what could happen with the change that I have in mind.> @KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @Acromio said:

    No.

    /thread

    I was just waiting for the that typical kind of player that denies any chance to survivors.

    Now tell me what you think that is overpowered about this, since that's you guys' standard pattern.

    Excuse me? How did he deny any chance for survivors? What’s your rank?

    What are you even talking about? Of course my rank is 1, and what I'm saying is that as soon as one comes up with a good idea for a survivor perk some killer mains will have to be dicks about it and deny anything that could possibly be interesting for survivors.

    @Arroz said:

    @Acromio said:

    No.

    /thread

    Typical killer main who wants to survivors receive all the nerf and killers the buff, remember this is asymetrical, both sides need to be balanced ;)

    That one kind of killer main is not capable of reasoning with as much logic, I think you're going too far with him, saying hard words like "asymmetrical" is already op to him, he's already feeling confused and oppressed

    You say he can’t apply logic, however you just insult people who don’t agree with you?... Also, once again. How did he deny all chance to survivors?? Survivor is pretty easy, Killer is infuriating.

    One thing is constructively disagreeing with a point, and one thing is being a dick putting the /thread trying to show omnipotence while you're just an useless jerk. If one behaves like that, you can already stop expecting me to be nice at them.

    Now, about him denying all chance to survivors, once again, I was referring to disagreeing to the minimal buff to a dead survivor perk.

    I can give you a good comparison: Spies from the Shadows got a significative buff that brought it from a useless perk to an average tracking perk.

    Now, although I am a survivor main, I'm fine with that change and I'm not gonna ######### about it.

    That's exactly where the difference between me and that scumbag lays, I do accept my opponent to get buffed when needed and accept to have to improve my playstyle in specific situations and to be required to be more careful on my moves.

    An entitled killer main like that guy is just gonna deny even the most minimal buff to a currently useless perk that would bring it up to an average tier at most, and that kind of person is probably who ruins DbD's community.

    The way he replied is just making me feel like killer mains are just getting spoiled right now, and if you want people not to think so, at least avoid defending their non-existing points and their complete lack of interest into making the game better for everyone.

    Just thinking about the way you pretty arrogantly claimed survivor to be easy and killer to be infuriating;

    how did you play survivor to conclude that it's easy to play it? Did you play rank 1 versus good killers with random teammates or did you simply play a 4 man SWF group? Because if that's the case, it's like I came up to you claiming that killer is easy because I just had a 3 blinks nurse game with Hex: Ruin, BBQ and all the meta perks on and I won many games with that loadout.

    Playing SWF is sure easy when teammates are good just like playing Nurse is, but you can't use a single way you play that role to assert that it's easy to play it.> @TreemanXD said:

    KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @KiraElijah said:

    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops



They weren't really infinite loops, they simply happened to use Sprint Burst mid-chase when they had already recovered a part of Exhaustion, which is what could happen with the change that I have in mind.> @KiraElijah said:

@Vert3x said:

@Acromio said:

No.

/thread



I was just waiting for the that typical kind of player that denies any chance to survivors.

Now tell me what you think that is overpowered about this, since that's you guys' standard pattern.



Excuse me? How did he deny any chance for survivors? What’s your rank?



What are you even talking about? Of course my rank is 1, and what I'm saying is that as soon as one comes up with a good idea for a survivor perk some killer mains will have to be dicks about it and deny anything that could possibly be interesting for survivors.

@Arroz said:

@Acromio said:

No.

/thread



Typical killer main who wants to survivors receive all the nerf and killers the buff, remember this is asymetrical, both sides need to be balanced ;)



That one kind of killer main is not capable of reasoning with as much logic, I think you're going too far with him, saying hard words like "asymmetrical" is already op to him, he's already feeling confused and oppressed



You say he can’t apply logic, however you just insult people who don’t agree with you?... Also, once again. How did he deny all chance to survivors?? Survivor is pretty easy, Killer is infuriating.

    However I don’t find either role infuriating I can agree that he is just insulting people with a different POV.

    Just telling you too, I'm insulting people that behave like jerks, I'm not gonna insult anybody that disagrees with my point as long as they're gonna try to argue about what could be so strong about it.> @Khroalthemadbomber said:

    Arroz said:

    You make laugh XDD, if killers main see this post they are just gonna cry..



Killer main here myself though my face is dry. Honestly though I've got no issue with the idea of Vigil allowing it at a MUCH slower rate while running, but also as @TigerKirby215 said, people will only use it for the Exhaustion benefit and nothing else.

    With a name like Vigil I imagine it being something to promote a Flight or Fight response in a survivor, so perhaps rework it so that instead of healing faster from blind and mangled (since let's be honest the only real aggravating versions versions of those are permenant) let's have it also boost detection perks. Faster cooldown on Prem, longer range from Spine Chill, perhaps a SLIGHT increase to the aura detection time of Dark Sense and Alert. Have these in addition to the slow restoration of Exhaustion while running and I see it working just fine.

    I don't think it should go on and affect everything, I believe it should stay bonded to shortening cooldowns, sure it should however affect perks like Quick & Quiet, Premonition, Dance with me and so on, but I don't think there's a need for it to go beyond cooldowns, it'd just get out of concept to make it also affect aura detection time and range or any other thing.

    Pretty cool idea by the way, maybe they should just grab all the cooldown perks and add that little note "- Affected by Vigil" which killer add-ons used to have for Tinkerer.

    Until recently you and another who’s name I will not say have been the only “jerks” 

    @TreemanXD said:
    Someone else said because we disagree with this buff that we’re denying any chances to survivor..... But sure call everyone who disagrees with you a jerk

    I don't get where you want to get by defending him, as long as one tries to disagree with my ideas by bringing in valid points I'm fine with discussing, but if one just acts like a dick I don't see a reason to show any mercy to him, that's the type of person that ruins this community (and general online communities) and mocking him is the least I can do, especially since that's what he also does with my ideas as I was expecting (even if I didn't provoke him, I can guarantee that's the type of person that would've still been arguing with "LOL" and "git gud" images).

    This idea is really hard to be proven to be overpowered due to how slow one would recover from Exhaustion anyways, therefore if one really wants to prove it to be unbalanced you wanna bring in some decent arguments, a "LOL" image is not gonna scare me, he's just showing me how far his childishness can get.

    in Vigil buff to make Exhaustion slowly but surely recover while running. Comment by Vert3x

  • @Acromio said:
    The fact that you don't understand that to give survivors a tool to make exhaustion perks trigger more than once per chase as they did prior to patch 2.1.0 would not be balanced is why a big, fat

    is all that your thread deserves.

    Ok, assume you are using Sprint Burst and the new Vigil I'm thinking about, alright?
    (I'm assuming SB is the Exhaustion perk most killers are concerned about and indeed it can be the most efficient)
    Sprint Burst, tier 3: "... Causes Exhaustion for 40 seconds."
    Vigil, tier 3: "...20% bonus in recovering from Exhaustion, ..." (Applied when running, recovering at 20% instead of 0%)

    Assuming that you're running a killer around, starting the chase with your Sprint Burst and being given Exhaustion and assuming you'll keep on running, also assuming that the killer doesn't use any special addon to apply any new Exhaustion on you, the time that it'll take to recover from that Exhaustion will be 3 minutes and 20 seconds.

    So, you're claiming that this is unbalanced.
    You might wanna go back on your "No /thread" to be honest, I doubt you can or want to reason any further.

    in Vigil buff to make Exhaustion slowly but surely recover while running. Comment by Vert3x

  • @TreemanXD said:
    I play both sides a lot (mainly survivor) and I think this would result in the (almost) infinite sprint burst loop. Exhaustion is fine the way it is.

    @se05239 said:

    @KiraElijah said:
    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops

    I don't want that ######### back.

    Again, it was nowhere close to being infinite. It was possible to get Sprint Burst activated while running if you had already previously recovered from Exhaustion by walking, and also, it would be way slower than the old mid-chase activating Sprint Burst.

    @KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @KiraElijah said:
    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops

    They weren't really infinite loops, they simply happened to use Sprint Burst mid-chase when they had already recovered a part of Exhaustion, which is what could happen with the change that I have in mind.> @KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @Acromio said:
    No.
    /thread

    I was just waiting for the that typical kind of player that denies any chance to survivors.
    Now tell me what you think that is overpowered about this, since that's you guys' standard pattern.

    Excuse me? How did he deny any chance for survivors? What’s your rank?

    What are you even talking about? Of course my rank is 1, and what I'm saying is that as soon as one comes up with a good idea for a survivor perk some killer mains will have to be dicks about it and deny anything that could possibly be interesting for survivors.

    @Arroz said:

    @Acromio said:
    No.
    /thread

    Typical killer main who wants to survivors receive all the nerf and killers the buff, remember this is asymetrical, both sides need to be balanced ;)

    That one kind of killer main is not capable of reasoning with as much logic, I think you're going too far with him, saying hard words like "asymmetrical" is already op to him, he's already feeling confused and oppressed

    You say he can’t apply logic, however you just insult people who don’t agree with you?... Also, once again. How did he deny all chance to survivors?? Survivor is pretty easy, Killer is infuriating.

    One thing is constructively disagreeing with a point, and one thing is being a dick putting the /thread trying to show omnipotence while you're just an useless jerk. If one behaves like that, you can already stop expecting me to be nice at them.
    Now, about him denying all chance to survivors, once again, I was referring to disagreeing to the minimal buff to a dead survivor perk.

    I can give you a good comparison: Spies from the Shadows got a significative buff that brought it from a useless perk to an average tracking perk.
    Now, although I am a survivor main, I'm fine with that change and I'm not gonna ######### about it.

    That's exactly where the difference between me and that scumbag lays, I do accept my opponent to get buffed when needed and accept to have to improve my playstyle in specific situations and to be required to be more careful on my moves.

    An entitled killer main like that guy is just gonna deny even the most minimal buff to a currently useless perk that would bring it up to an average tier at most, and that kind of person is probably who ruins DbD's community.

    The way he replied is just making me feel like killer mains are just getting spoiled right now, and if you want people not to think so, at least avoid defending their non-existing points and their complete lack of interest into making the game better for everyone.

    Just thinking about the way you pretty arrogantly claimed survivor to be easy and killer to be infuriating;
    how did you play survivor to conclude that it's easy to play it? Did you play rank 1 versus good killers with random teammates or did you simply play a 4 man SWF group? Because if that's the case, it's like I came up to you claiming that killer is easy because I just had a 3 blinks nurse game with Hex: Ruin, BBQ and all the meta perks on and I won many games with that loadout.
    Playing SWF is sure easy when teammates are good just like playing Nurse is, but you can't use a single way you play that role to assert that it's easy to play it.> @TreemanXD said:

    KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

     @KiraElijah said:

    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops

    They weren't really infinite loops, they simply happened to use Sprint Burst mid-chase when they had already recovered a part of Exhaustion, which is what could happen with the change that I have in mind.> @KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @Acromio said:

    No.

    /thread

    I was just waiting for the that typical kind of player that denies any chance to survivors.

    Now tell me what you think that is overpowered about this, since that's you guys' standard pattern.

    Excuse me? How did he deny any chance for survivors? What’s your rank?

    What are you even talking about? Of course my rank is 1, and what I'm saying is that as soon as one comes up with a good idea for a survivor perk some killer mains will have to be dicks about it and deny anything that could possibly be interesting for survivors.

    @Arroz said:

    @Acromio said:

    No.

    /thread

    Typical killer main who wants to survivors receive all the nerf and killers the buff, remember this is asymetrical, both sides need to be balanced ;)

    That one kind of killer main is not capable of reasoning with as much logic, I think you're going too far with him, saying hard words like "asymmetrical" is already op to him, he's already feeling confused and oppressed

    You say he can’t apply logic, however you just insult people who don’t agree with you?... Also, once again. How did he deny all chance to survivors?? Survivor is pretty easy, Killer is infuriating.

    However I don’t find either role infuriating I can agree that he is just insulting people with a different POV.

    Just telling you too, I'm insulting people that behave like jerks, I'm not gonna insult anybody that disagrees with my point as long as they're gonna try to argue about what could be so strong about it.> @Khroalthemadbomber said:

    Arroz said:

    You make laugh XDD, if killers main see this post they are just gonna cry..

    Killer main here myself though my face is dry. Honestly though I've got no issue with the idea of Vigil allowing it at a MUCH slower rate while running, but also as @TigerKirby215 said, people will only use it for the Exhaustion benefit and nothing else.

    With a name like Vigil I imagine it being something to promote a Flight or Fight response in a survivor, so perhaps rework it so that instead of healing faster from blind and mangled (since let's be honest the only real aggravating versions versions of those are permenant) let's have it also boost detection perks. Faster cooldown on Prem, longer range from Spine Chill, perhaps a SLIGHT increase to the aura detection time of Dark Sense and Alert. Have these in addition to the slow restoration of Exhaustion while running and I see it working just fine.

    I don't think it should go on and affect everything, I believe it should stay bonded to shortening cooldowns, sure it should however affect perks like Quick & Quiet, Premonition, Dance with me and so on, but I don't think there's a need for it to go beyond cooldowns, it'd just get out of concept to make it also affect aura detection time and range or any other thing.
    Pretty cool idea by the way, maybe they should just grab all the cooldown perks and add that little note "- Affected by Vigil" which killer add-ons used to have for Tinkerer.

    in Vigil buff to make Exhaustion slowly but surely recover while running. Comment by Vert3x

  • @White_Owl said:
    I'm not sure it's possible the way you explained because they would need to change how the buff is calculated (usually they are multiplicative), but sure it would be a welcome change to make the perk not a joke anymore.

    For the most part, I'm assuming that actually while running but being affected by Exhaustion, you first get given the 20% buff to your recovery speed (standard = 100%) getting to 120% and then it all gets reset to 0%.

    I'm quite sure that before the Exhaustion nerf indeed, what used to happen was getting 100% standard + 20% Vigil = 120% and then it got divided by 2, getting to recover at 60% while running.

    in Vigil buff to make Exhaustion slowly but surely recover while running. Comment by Vert3x

  • @KiraElijah said:
    Flashbacks to infinite Sprint Burst Loops

    They weren't really infinite loops, they simply happened to use Sprint Burst mid-chase when they had already recovered a part of Exhaustion, which is what could happen with the change that I have in mind.> @KiraElijah said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @Acromio said:
    No.
    /thread

    I was just waiting for the that typical kind of player that denies any chance to survivors.
    Now tell me what you think that is overpowered about this, since that's you guys' standard pattern.

    Excuse me? How did he deny any chance for survivors? What’s your rank?

    What are you even talking about? Of course my rank is 1, and what I'm saying is that as soon as one comes up with a good idea for a survivor perk some killer mains will have to be dicks about it and deny anything that could possibly be interesting for survivors.

    @Arroz said:

    @Acromio said:
    No.
    /thread

    Typical killer main who wants to survivors receive all the nerf and killers the buff, remember this is asymetrical, both sides need to be balanced ;)

    That one kind of killer main is not capable of reasoning with as much logic, I think you're going too far with him, saying hard words like "asymmetrical" is already op to him, he's already feeling confused and oppressed.

    in Vigil buff to make Exhaustion slowly but surely recover while running. Comment by Vert3x

  • @Acromio said:
    No.
    /thread

    I was just waiting for the that typical kind of player that denies any chance to survivors.
    Now tell me what you think that is overpowered about this, since that's you guys' standard pattern.

    in Vigil buff to make Exhaustion slowly but surely recover while running. Comment by Vert3x

  • @TigerKirby215 said:
    It's been suggested a billion times and my response is always the same: it doesn't fix the fact that Vigil basically doesn't do anything other than make Exhaustion slower since 95% of debuffs in this game are not time based.

    I agree with that, but at least I'd get better. Also yeah, there's just some rare cases in which you get some timed bad effects. Maybe they should also make that work on the Hindered effect that the Clown's bottles give you, even though it's not like that killer needs any nerf.

    in Vigil buff to make Exhaustion slowly but surely recover while running. Comment by Vert3x

  • @pemberley said:
    I just wish there were more options than having to fight for the hook or feeling like you’re throwing yourself into danger just to make sure you get your full stacks. 

    More than exactly what I am aiming at, I'm throwing in some ideas because I'm afraid on how developers would solve this themselves, and in general without any actual change in mind, this thread would've been quite empty. I'm quite sure that most of the community aims at what you just said.

    @t3hp0larbear said:
    Well, let's factor in that people need to realize that David is supposed to be geared towards earning Boldness BP and Evader emblems, with a little Altruism/Benevolent on the side. People shouldn't be playing with David's perks unless they can juke and loop reliably. I mean, look at the concept of the perks: The take-a-hit benefit of WGLF and No Mither in its entirety are intended to make David into a target, and Dead Hard is supposed to supplement loops and jukes by buying you precious seconds when the killer is closing in on a chase (whether or not the perks actually do these things in practice, however, is an entirely different story).

    I like that idea of a token being earned only on a safe unhook. Lately I've had issues with overly altruistic survivors obsessing over unhooks instead of realizing that you have 20 seconds after a hook on average to do anything but rescue them and not hit the end of the ohase. If this perk helped call attention to the difference between safe an unsafe hook rescues, that would benefit everyone.

    With that, the taking-a-hit mechanic would be icing on the cake. Because if you make the decision to block a fatal hit and the survivor gets away, then you just got two tokens for ensuring a safe rescue.

    That's the reason why I don't want it to be heal-based, and I rather would want to see it working the same way as now, just counting Safe Unhooks instead of unsafe ones and capping your tokens at 2, having them count 50% each, therefore reaching 100% bonus Bloodpoints with only 2 actions like Safe Unhooks or tanking hits instead of 4, which is quite unlikely and mostly requires you to just yolo save and suic1de into a farmy hook rescue so that you take a couple of hits and get the unhook all together to get as many tokens as possible.

    in We're Gonna Live Forever should change. Comment by Vert3x

  • Yeah, sure only Safe Unhooks should count as tokens.
    Back in the days when they separated the Bloodpoint earnings from unhooking a survivor into "Unhook" +1000 and "Safe Unhook" +500, they mentioned We're Gonna Live Forever as one of the primary reasons why they wanted things to change, but it eventually wasn't affected whatsoever and people keep on farming with it on.

    It feels like it was an idea that they had in mind and that they ended up forgetting about or they just left it as is and gave it a very low priority for any evolution of its effects.
    Just think about it, shouldn't the Bloodpoint earnings from the Unhooking action itself be inverted to be +500 "Unhook" and +1000 "Safe Unhook"? It'd make twice as sense.

    Also, to be totally honest, sometimes you get punished too much as well with the Emblems system because of tunneling/camping killers.
    I believe that if there is a non-sportive gamer as your opponent, he should be the punished one rather than any teammate that fails into helping you out of a lame situation like that.

    The reason why I'm saying this is that I sometimes found myself performing some so-called unsafe unhooks and being punished with the Benevolent emblem because the killer was a tunneling nurse that just kept her blink charged from the distance and made me think that she was going away instead of coming back and downing the same survivor that just got rescued.

    And even shittier situations may occur, just think about any Insidious camper and tunneler, what's the point of punishing survivors if it's the killer playing like a baby? Also, I don't honestly get the point of that perk being still in the game like since its only usage is camping, but that's another argument.

    @TheLegendDyl4n1 said:

    @Vert3x said:
    As the Winter Solstice Double Bloodpoints event demonstrated to the community,

    In its current state, WGLF is a debatable perk because of how much it still encourages farming survivors off the hook and yolo-saving in general by tanking lethal hits just to gain as many tokens as possible.

    The old intervention that developers made on this perk:
    Patch 1.7.0 - 14 September 2017

    This change possibly discouraged the intense level of farming, but still I feel like it just needs to get easier to get your 100% bonus bloodpoints, because in its current state you just gotta riskily force survivors off the hooks and get hits over hits in order to obtain the full bonus, and that's what incentives the whole farming thing.

    I'm on a first place gonna admit that I'm myself one of the people that is really farmish with this perk on (I use Borrowed Time most times, but it's still farming), and I also do tank lethal hits just to keep on tiering it up.
    It's a perk that leads to a somewhat toxic atmosphere, and that could potentially ruin the game for survivors that aren't themselves running it, but that have someone in their team that wants to quickly gain tokens with it.

    The change that I have in mind would be quite neat:
    the perk should be made so that you only have to gain 2 tokens to reach 100% bonus bloodpoints (1 token should be worth a 50% stackable bonus instead of 25%, the current value), but unlike the first version of the perk, you should have your cap right there, you shouldn't be able to go past 2 tokens / 100% bonus points.

    With this idea, you can make it easier to reach your target cap and you can just start playing more carefully after you get to it, or, with a more optimistic view of this change in action, I would say that it's generally more likely to get to perform some genuine altruistic actions a couple of times, whether it's an unhook or a protection hit, without forcing it like one's got to do in the current state of the perk.

    no they should just add an extra ability like BBQ and chilli has

    WGLF is not designed to give you anything but Bloodpoints, it's similar to BBQ but it isn't meant to be the same, on a first place BBQ is a killer perk, WGLF is a survivor perk, so it makes sense that even when counterpart of each other, perks should have some downsides when it comes down to the survivors' version.

    All it needs is to grant you your 100% bonus Bloodpoints faster and better, it currently clearly just gives an incentive to farm your teammates and you generally still struggle to get your tokens up to four.

    in We're Gonna Live Forever should change. Comment by Vert3x

  • @Master said:

    @Vert3x said:
    Is there a way to play killer decently for me from now on?
    To> @Master said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @Master said:

    @Vert3x said:
    This game has evolved since 2016, it's nearly 2019 now, I hope we can all understand that Dead by Daylight loses all its sense and fun when it comes down to camping.

    I'm tired of wasting my time, items, addons, offerings and rank pips into games where I get caught for a single mistake (which sometimes could be conditioned by the game itself) and that's enough to get me punished to death by any unfair playing killer.

    What do I mean with camping:
    What I mean with camping is of course having a killer that stays by the hook or that patrols the nearby area, but I also prefer to include another strategy, similar to tunneling, which is instantly or soon enough downing survivors back as soon as they get unhooked, which is also very unfair and senseless.

    The reason why I want to keep that separated from tunneling is because tunneling is actually prioritizing one (or more) specific survivor(s) to get them out of the game as soon as possible, whether because it's the obsession and the killer's got Dying Light, Remember Me or anything similar, or if it's just an attempt to gain a good map pressure by jumping straight to a 1v3 with (hopefully and supposedly) about 1 generator repaired to the point when the guy gets sacrificed.
    Sure this shouldn't involve having the killer stay by the hook, it should rather be about the killer leaving the hook to handle other tasks, and only as soon as the survivor gets rescued, coming back for it and ignoring everybody else to progress through that guy's sacrifice.
    Tunneling is also a lame strategy to many players, but when the target of it knows how to handle the situation, they could possibly get to take advantage of it by wasting a lot of the killer's time and getting Adrenaline to pop or anyways getting hooked at a certain point with his team managing to rescue him after many generators have been done and pretty much with the exit gates open.

    I've been the target in this kind of situation, and even if I ended up dying and maybe depipping, at least I actively helped my team securing their escapes and I sure had some genuine fun with a long chase, so at that point I won't even mind if I die.

    The reason why I'm fine with tunneling is also because when I tried to get the Adept Wraith achievement, I really struggled in certain maps to optimize the time that I spent in the chases, since I did that on rank 1, and sure the 3 teachable perks of the Wraith weren't coming in handy at all. I can relate to killers that feel the need to try to do something like that, and I think it can even be justified with some barely useful perks on an below average killer. (I eventually got the achievement, but being on rank 1 didn't help, I had to wait to deal with solo players to be able to kill them all with those ridiculous perks)

    Now, one thing that I really want to point out is, no matter how much toxicity they put into doing it, neither camping nor tunneling are something that I'd blame the killer for doing; I maybe wouldn't do it on their place, but still I don't want to blame a killer that is struggling to gain map pressure for doing anything alike, or neither if it's their standard playstyle. I could maybe rage at them at first, but when lucidly thinking about it, I don't think that it's their fault at all.

    I think that if there's somebody to blame instead, it's rather the game designers who have always promoted camping as a """valid""" strategy, even though it's always been known for utterly ruining the gameplay experience for at least one of the players involved.
    It's quite inconceivable indeed that one working for a game wants its players to rage when dealing with toxic strategies, since that's what they approved and recommended killers to do.

    Let me know your opinions about this!

    P.S. for anybody ready with their dead meme with the doctor showing a "git gud" (or anything on the same level): are you here to make the community rot?
    You're welcome, but before demonstrating your ignorance, arrogance and brain damage, I'd be pleased to see you guys having fun to a camper so that you can prove me wrong, thus before showing your super funny picture, make sure to include a link to a youtube video where you show me your unstoppable fun against any camper player that makes you die within seconds from the first mistake you do, solo survivor game, no good teammates capable of saving, no ds, mic included: even if you're likely 11-12 (deducing from the way you think), it's still legal to make us hear your voice ;)
    It's up to you, either a video or no d*ck comments, thank you and may everybody have a good one :)

    There already is invulnerability during unhook now, its impossible to tunnel rigth of the hook, the other survivor can ALYWAYS bodyblock. Also you got BT, which doesnt even tick down during a chase anymore. What else do you want?

    A killer camping a single survivor is intentionally losing the game, he allows the other 3 survivors to finish all gens and leave because it takes 2 minutes to die on hook.
    if you are always the one being camped, then I would consider takign a closer looka t your playstyle.....

    Nah, I don't play toxic buddy, I used to but I acknowledged it back in the days and sure I wouldn't complain about camping.
    The few times that I give a try to toxic gameplay I sure expect the killer to get upset from my playstyle and I don't have anything to say about that.

    The problem is, on rank 1 I really don't play toxic, I just play to enjoy the game, and that often doesn't happen because it's full of campers. I know that it sounds weird, but there's way too many people getting apparently rewarded by that playstyle rather than punished, and as I said, tunneling is only when you have a chance to keep a chase and gain distance, if the killer is just around and comes back for the unhook while one can't move any further than an open field then I call that camping because it's just like farming survivors off the hook just with a longer time, only an adrenaline, instaheal, or something would save you in that situation.

    I see it all the time, a SWF knocks out 3 gens during my first chase. I simply accept that I lost the game and wait in front of my victim that the other 2 gens pop. FOr some reason the whole SWF throws themselves at the hook several times and I end up 4king.

    A killer camping surenders the game, as I said. Its up to the survivors to take the free win and get their ass out, no other way to put that

    I'd like to honestly keep SWF outside of this conversation, I often get camped and tunneled as a solo player, and that's stupidly hard and most of the times impossible to deal with unless you've got some really good teammates. I do take the risk of playing with any survivor, but camping is just by itself quite stupid, you don't want, as a game designer, that one of the roles of your multiplayer game has a ######### tier experience due to their opponent's strategy, it's just not conceivable!

    Oh dont get me wrong, sometimes solo players play really good that I have the impression that its an SWF.
    And since the devs want to take away all knowledge from the killer and spawn all survivors at the same time into the lobby..... well

    If survivors wouldnt reward camping so much (and especially SWF do), then it wouldnt be a problem at all because it just is a really bad strategy.

    Oh I really disagree with that, it's not up to the community to fix this stuff, if the killer gets pissed off with a specific survivor, no matter what context they're in, it will always be stupid to let the killer choose to have that survivor out of the game because of a single mistake. SWF can actually punish a camping killer quite well by giving him 0k unless it's like a huntress or a leatherface.> @fallenkn said:

    Master said:

    There already is invulnerability during unhook now, its impossible to tunnel rigth of the hook, the other survivor can ALYWAYS bodyblock. Also you got BT, which doesnt even tick down during a chase anymore. What else do you want?

    A killer camping a single survivor is intentionally losing the game, he allows the other 3 survivors to finish all gens and leave because it takes 2 minutes to die on hook.

    if you are always the one being camped, then I would consider takign a closer looka t your playstyle.....

    There is invunerability during the unhook animation and as soon as the survivor touches the ground you can down them again, the bodyblocking part isn't even true.

    BT is also worthless right now since it is bugged.

    Also imagine going against a few camping killers in a row. It doesn't even matter if you're the guy being camped or not it is literally the most boring thing ever, you either sit on the hook and do nothing, or sit on a gen and hold down the left mousebutton without any further interaction. At some point you rather give that camping killer a free win in order to not have a boring match.

    Yeah, in a first spot one thing that I noticed is also that if there's someone that gets punished for camping/hard tunneling it's your teammates with the Benevolent emblem. That legit punishes survivors exactly for what the game should punish a bad playing killer. Or also having a survivor hanging there for longer than expected, it might be a killer that facecamps him, and survivors will get punished by the Emblems system because they won't intervene (simply because they can't).

    in Reasonable points about camping Comment by Vert3x

  • @Zarathos said:
    Vert3x said:

    @BrendanLeeT said:

    I'm all for downing the rarity but it was nerfed for a reason because it was stupid that a SWF group could just instantly repair up to 4 generators, if of course they hit the skill checks. It really isn't worth the points and it's definitely not worthy of being ultra rare.

    Buffing is definitely a bad idea but decreasing the rarity is justifiable.

    One thing that I never understood, about the old brand new part and about instablinds (as well as instaheals which are still a thing) is why they didn't want to simply make sure that only one per type could be brought in a game.

    It wouldn't be that hard, the good old instablinds were quite fun to use, but sure a killer had a ######### time when dealing with 2 or more of them at a time. And same for the old instagen brand new parts.

    Instablinds were insane imagine if the docs shock caused the expose effect with iridescent king. Billys saw inflicted no mither. Making an item ultra rare dosent excuse it from having a unbalanced broken effect.

    Their is very limited coumterplay to an instablind that btw also has its duration increased. This supposedly crap bnp has been clutch for me getting me many unsafe gens. Its fine as is and ultra rare does not justify being broken unless you also combine disadvantages. Op instablind lights, bnps need a massive negative to justify its existence. 

    Iridescent heads huntress for example has her ammo dramatically reduced to accomodate for her ridiclous power. Freddys paimt brush gives him a potential 0 tr freddy at the cost of ms. Myers judith tombstone reduces ms to allow him to mori multiple targets. 

    Well, if there's one certain thing is that it made no sense to have the blindness lasting longer, I'd be fine with that going away, maybe for the blindness lasting longer they could create a different set of addons, and the odd bulbs and all the classical stuff should give you faster blind but shorter blindness effect to balance it.

    Instablinds could be however anticipated and dodged, but I do understand how bullshit it was sometimes to deal with them (the old survivors camping around the corner and instablinding while you were carrying someone were pure aids).

    What if they reintroduced them by making the Odd Bulb a 2/3 times usage thing, which would only consume the addon? That could fit in, in the end the whole reason why they made the pickup animation require a timing to blind a killer and perform a save at first was to incentive people to use strong add-ons on their flashlights to be able to quickly blind the killer while he's carrying another survivor and while he could potentially dodge the beam.

    That old times change that they made to the pick up animation to have flashlight stun immunity (summer of 2016, if I'm not wrong), even though it eventually made flashlight saving just more skillwise, was first designed to make sure that the killer didn't have people rescued off his shoulders while he didn't have a proper chance to dodge the flashlight beam.

    in Can we revisit the bnp nerf? Comment by Vert3x

  • @JammyJewels said:
    Or... how about this.

    You can gain 100% extra blood points by completing actions as you would now, taking hits and saving people.

    BUT the change I would propose is giving another added percentage, perhaps also going to 100%, based on your Altruism emblem.

    That truly doesn't work, it's still based off the standard 4 tokens that one struggles to gain, I think that should be suppressed on a first place.

    in We're Gonna Live Forever should change. Comment by Vert3x

  • Is there a way to play killer decently for me from now on?
    To> @Master said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @Master said:

    @Vert3x said:
    This game has evolved since 2016, it's nearly 2019 now, I hope we can all understand that Dead by Daylight loses all its sense and fun when it comes down to camping.

    I'm tired of wasting my time, items, addons, offerings and rank pips into games where I get caught for a single mistake (which sometimes could be conditioned by the game itself) and that's enough to get me punished to death by any unfair playing killer.

    What do I mean with camping:
    What I mean with camping is of course having a killer that stays by the hook or that patrols the nearby area, but I also prefer to include another strategy, similar to tunneling, which is instantly or soon enough downing survivors back as soon as they get unhooked, which is also very unfair and senseless.

    The reason why I want to keep that separated from tunneling is because tunneling is actually prioritizing one (or more) specific survivor(s) to get them out of the game as soon as possible, whether because it's the obsession and the killer's got Dying Light, Remember Me or anything similar, or if it's just an attempt to gain a good map pressure by jumping straight to a 1v3 with (hopefully and supposedly) about 1 generator repaired to the point when the guy gets sacrificed.
    Sure this shouldn't involve having the killer stay by the hook, it should rather be about the killer leaving the hook to handle other tasks, and only as soon as the survivor gets rescued, coming back for it and ignoring everybody else to progress through that guy's sacrifice.
    Tunneling is also a lame strategy to many players, but when the target of it knows how to handle the situation, they could possibly get to take advantage of it by wasting a lot of the killer's time and getting Adrenaline to pop or anyways getting hooked at a certain point with his team managing to rescue him after many generators have been done and pretty much with the exit gates open.

    I've been the target in this kind of situation, and even if I ended up dying and maybe depipping, at least I actively helped my team securing their escapes and I sure had some genuine fun with a long chase, so at that point I won't even mind if I die.

    The reason why I'm fine with tunneling is also because when I tried to get the Adept Wraith achievement, I really struggled in certain maps to optimize the time that I spent in the chases, since I did that on rank 1, and sure the 3 teachable perks of the Wraith weren't coming in handy at all. I can relate to killers that feel the need to try to do something like that, and I think it can even be justified with some barely useful perks on an below average killer. (I eventually got the achievement, but being on rank 1 didn't help, I had to wait to deal with solo players to be able to kill them all with those ridiculous perks)

    Now, one thing that I really want to point out is, no matter how much toxicity they put into doing it, neither camping nor tunneling are something that I'd blame the killer for doing; I maybe wouldn't do it on their place, but still I don't want to blame a killer that is struggling to gain map pressure for doing anything alike, or neither if it's their standard playstyle. I could maybe rage at them at first, but when lucidly thinking about it, I don't think that it's their fault at all.

    I think that if there's somebody to blame instead, it's rather the game designers who have always promoted camping as a """valid""" strategy, even though it's always been known for utterly ruining the gameplay experience for at least one of the players involved.
    It's quite inconceivable indeed that one working for a game wants its players to rage when dealing with toxic strategies, since that's what they approved and recommended killers to do.

    Let me know your opinions about this!

    P.S. for anybody ready with their dead meme with the doctor showing a "git gud" (or anything on the same level): are you here to make the community rot?
    You're welcome, but before demonstrating your ignorance, arrogance and brain damage, I'd be pleased to see you guys having fun to a camper so that you can prove me wrong, thus before showing your super funny picture, make sure to include a link to a youtube video where you show me your unstoppable fun against any camper player that makes you die within seconds from the first mistake you do, solo survivor game, no good teammates capable of saving, no ds, mic included: even if you're likely 11-12 (deducing from the way you think), it's still legal to make us hear your voice ;)
    It's up to you, either a video or no d*ck comments, thank you and may everybody have a good one :)

    There already is invulnerability during unhook now, its impossible to tunnel rigth of the hook, the other survivor can ALYWAYS bodyblock. Also you got BT, which doesnt even tick down during a chase anymore. What else do you want?

    A killer camping a single survivor is intentionally losing the game, he allows the other 3 survivors to finish all gens and leave because it takes 2 minutes to die on hook.
    if you are always the one being camped, then I would consider takign a closer looka t your playstyle.....

    Nah, I don't play toxic buddy, I used to but I acknowledged it back in the days and sure I wouldn't complain about camping.
    The few times that I give a try to toxic gameplay I sure expect the killer to get upset from my playstyle and I don't have anything to say about that.

    The problem is, on rank 1 I really don't play toxic, I just play to enjoy the game, and that often doesn't happen because it's full of campers. I know that it sounds weird, but there's way too many people getting apparently rewarded by that playstyle rather than punished, and as I said, tunneling is only when you have a chance to keep a chase and gain distance, if the killer is just around and comes back for the unhook while one can't move any further than an open field then I call that camping because it's just like farming survivors off the hook just with a longer time, only an adrenaline, instaheal, or something would save you in that situation.

    I see it all the time, a SWF knocks out 3 gens during my first chase. I simply accept that I lost the game and wait in front of my victim that the other 2 gens pop. FOr some reason the whole SWF throws themselves at the hook several times and I end up 4king.

    A killer camping surenders the game, as I said. Its up to the survivors to take the free win and get their ass out, no other way to put that

    I'd like to honestly keep SWF outside of this conversation, I often get camped and tunneled as a solo player, and that's stupidly hard and most of the times impossible to deal with unless you've got some really good teammates. I do take the risk of playing with any survivor, but camping is just by itself quite stupid, you don't want, as a game designer, that one of the roles of your multiplayer game has a ######### tier experience due to their opponent's strategy, it's just not conceivable!

    in Reasonable points about camping Comment by Vert3x

  • @Tru3Lemon said:

    @Ariancool said:
    The Devs have talked about this in a dev stream some months ago and they said that they would apply a change to "We are gonna live forever" like they did to the unhooking action (an "unsafe" unhook only awards you with 1000 BP (Bloodpoints) instead of 1500 BP and you lose points in the Benevolence category). The change they talked about was about the unhooking action. The same way you lose BP if you do an unsafe unhook same with Benevolence points, you would also lose you the WGLF (We're Gonna Live Forever) stack that you earned from that unhook. Unfortunately that change has not made it to the game yet and I don't think it ever will so that's why I stopped using Borrowed Time or BT because I care more about bloodpoints than rank.

    more nerf points on survivor? wow they should buff instead of nerfing alot since killers get like 2xBP with BBQ

    Punishing farmers is actually a good idea, the only thing about it is that it should be easier to tier it up.

    in We're Gonna Live Forever should change. Comment by Vert3x

  • Alright, wanna listen to one hell of a story?

    Today I played a game against a Michael in Azarov's Resting Place, Autoheaven Wreckers.

    My perks:

    • Self Care, tier 2
    • Balanced Landing, tier 2
    • Aftercare, tier 3
    • Unbreakable, tier 3

    I got first-hooked very early in the game because I had some bad luck with him getting to tier 2 on me and I kind of struggled to find the pallets on one side of the map. After I got unhooked, or before, I can't remember, a guy disconnected for some reason, and only 1 generator had been repaired at that point.

    I've been trying to hide from the killer, but as he had a hooked guy and he was in tier 3, he was hardly patrolling around him and he found me but I anticipated him spotting me, so I started running away and ran him around for the time for the other guy to get rescued and not only I kept him for about a couple of gens to get repaired, he eventually left/lost me and I was only injured because I managed to avoid getting hit during the tier 3.

    So far, I played it quite well, there's nothing to say but one thing: I didn't teabag a single time, I was just giving him a hard time catching me, but that's what a good survivor running a killer around is supposed to do, I remember that he missed a multitude of hits around jungle gyms because he didn't expect me to vault the windows most of the times.

    At a certain point, after repairing a generator in the shack, the killer hooks one of the 2 guys on the exact other side of the map, by the Office (the little house with 3 windows and 2 entrances that is actually sort of unsafe).

    At that point, I start running through the map, and see Michael going towards the shack where the gen got done, a few seconds later, while moving towards the hooked guy, I see that he's coming back, but he's really far away and I can make it to safely unhook. What happens later is that he chases me again with tier 3, and I run him around until the last generator is done, with the only problem that this time he's still keeps the tier 3, and as I run in a corner of the map with a 4 wall structure, I get caught.

    At that point, as I get hooked, he decides to facecamp me and keeps on hitting me over and over, preventing anybody to intervene, and he also bm's me as usually toxic killers do.

    What he said at the end of the game is that I was super toxic, and that's where the entire problem lays: the killer shouldn't be able to decide who deserves to get camped and who doesn't, he shouldn't just be able to prevent a save that much.

    I can't play solo survivor and deal with these dirtbags, I try to play as nice as possible, but if you tunnel a single survivor down and waste your entire time on them it's your fault, it's not them being toxic because they know how to survive a long chase!

    We even had a disconnection that was quite early, and he still has something to cry about, bad killers are honestly spoiled by this possibility, because they'll just feel satisfied about sacrificing the one guy that was so toxic because he could run them around and get to mindgame them around possibly one of the unsafest maps of the game.

    It's fine if you facecamp survivors that taunt you, but if people that play like I did get facecamped you might wanna punish the killer, because again, I was playing solo, I couldn't deal at all with the problem, if I had friends with me,
    we would have probably waited for the tier 3 to be over and tanked some hits possibly with a BT as well, but I like playing some solo survivor, I shouldn't have my gameplay experience compromised by people that can't accept loss and that are given a free kill for the """effort""" of camping, this just makes no sense, I made a single mistake of running in a 4 wall and that's the punishment? Wasn't survivor the overpowered role?

    Letting the killers do this just misleads the community, I do know myself that SWF can be overpowered, but very good survivors that play solo only might just see the game as killer sided, and I wouldn't have much to disagree about it if that's the experience one's forced into.

    in At teabagging Survivors: Stop it and Killers might stop camping you Comment by Vert3x

  • @HeroLives said:
    Rebel_Raven said:


    HeroLives said:


    Rebel_Raven said:


    Vert3x said:

    @BrendanLeeT said:

    I'm all for downing the rarity but it was nerfed for a reason because it was stupid that a SWF group could just instantly repair up to 4 generators, if of course they hit the skill checks. It really isn't worth the points and it's definitely not worthy of being ultra rare.

    Buffing is definitely a bad idea but decreasing the rarity is justifiable.

    One thing that I never understood, about the old brand new part and about instablinds (as well as instaheals which are still a thing) is why they didn't want to simply make sure that only one per type could be brought in a game.

    It wouldn't be that hard, the good old instablinds were quite fun to use, but sure a killer had a ######### time when dealing with 2 or more of them at a time. And same for the old instagen brand new parts.

    So only one can use it, but all 4 survivors have it in their loadout, and want it bad enough to argue over who gets it. What then?

    Simply it Becomes unavaible upon the first person picking it. Like in the new cod 4 where first come first served to the character theY want to play in blackout. It greys out immediately once the first person added it

    What if all 4 people put it into their loadout before they go onto the lobby?

    Does CoD 4 have a mechanism to keep people from backing out of a match if they can't get the character they want?

    Put it where you select add ons in killer lobby. The way cod 4 is set up everyone loads into game lobby the quickest gets who they picked you pick a different character if selected. Idk if there’s a block to back out Bc I’ve never tried to back out. I just pick another character I like.

    It wouldn't be that hard to design and develop anything like that. If more than a person with x addon on joins a lobby, either randomly or with a solid criteria, one is them is notified that he'll be able to keep x on, while the other will have the addon taken off itself, greyed out, locked and will be notified immediately about the occurrence as well, maybe getting his menu directly open to select another addon for the item.

    This all could also apply to perks such as DS, so that the entire bullshit about having survivors using it without the killer being able to predict it stops.

    A vaguely similar system should be applied to the killer as well, the amount of strong stuff (either it being perks, offerings or addons) should be regulated based on how many people are in SWF groups, and everyone in the lobby should always be aware on who is in a premade group and who isn't, which could probably end up letting swf groups stay together even when the killer lobby dodges or anything like that happens, since survivors would be just flagged to be in a swf team together.

    Aaah, how many nice ways the game could improve that the developers will ignore for sure. I don't really blame them in the end, who doesn't love getting moried by a nurse while playing solo? Or how about getting 4 decisive strikes and 4 instaheals while trying to get the adept wraith achievement?

    in Can we revisit the bnp nerf? Comment by Vert3x

  • @BrendanLeeT said:
    I'm all for downing the rarity but it was nerfed for a reason because it was stupid that a SWF group could just instantly repair up to 4 generators, if of course they hit the skill checks. It really isn't worth the points and it's definitely not worthy of being ultra rare.

    Buffing is definitely a bad idea but decreasing the rarity is justifiable.

    One thing that I never understood, about the old brand new part and about instablinds (as well as instaheals which are still a thing) is why they didn't want to simply make sure that only one per type could be brought in a game.
    It wouldn't be that hard, the good old instablinds were quite fun to use, but sure a killer had a ######### time when dealing with 2 or more of them at a time. And same for the old instagen brand new parts.

    in Can we revisit the bnp nerf? Comment by Vert3x

  • @pemberley said:
    It would be nice if wglf also contributed to heals (so it can have more play with we’ll make it and autodidact and botany) and maybe even completing gens...cause you ain’t gonna live forever if gens ain’t done.

    The problem is that the lore of the perk is about protecting your friends from contexts where the killer is actively intervening too, sure it should only be about Altruism so Generators should not even be close to counting as tokens, but even completing healing actions is kind of out of track for what the perk's designed to be.

    in We're Gonna Live Forever should change. Comment by Vert3x

  • Huntress Lullaby does need to give no notification, it's a stealthish perk that one's should be supposed to notice himself rather than having an easy alert before it even comes in action, that's pure dumbness.

    Hex: Ruin is fine with the notification so that you can keep an eye on it if it gets cleansed, since its effects are constant and aren't token based. If you could have Red Perks back you'd be able to determine the actual tier of the perk as well so that you could gain information for the team.
    Hex: Devour Hope is fine as is, nothing specific to say about it.
    Hex: No one escapes Death should work the same as Rancor, showing everybody the Exposed status effect
    before anybody gets downed.

    in Huntress Lullaby Hex Notification Change (Buff) Comment by Vert3x

  • It used to be like that, I'm not certain if it purposely ended up randomizing the perks through the diamond, but I agree!

    in Perk QOL request. Comment by Vert3x

  • @BrendanLeeT said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @Master said:

    @Vert3x said:
    This game has evolved since 2016, it's nearly 2019 now, I hope we can all understand that Dead by Daylight loses all its sense and fun when it comes down to camping.

    I'm tired of wasting my time, items, addons, offerings and rank pips into games where I get caught for a single mistake (which sometimes could be conditioned by the game itself) and that's enough to get me punished to death by any unfair playing killer.

    What do I mean with camping:
    What I mean with camping is of course having a killer that stays by the hook or that patrols the nearby area, but I also prefer to include another strategy, similar to tunneling, which is instantly or soon enough downing survivors back as soon as they get unhooked, which is also very unfair and senseless.

    The reason why I want to keep that separated from tunneling is because tunneling is actually prioritizing one (or more) specific survivor(s) to get them out of the game as soon as possible, whether because it's the obsession and the killer's got Dying Light, Remember Me or anything similar, or if it's just an attempt to gain a good map pressure by jumping straight to a 1v3 with (hopefully and supposedly) about 1 generator repaired to the point when the guy gets sacrificed.
    Sure this shouldn't involve having the killer stay by the hook, it should rather be about the killer leaving the hook to handle other tasks, and only as soon as the survivor gets rescued, coming back for it and ignoring everybody else to progress through that guy's sacrifice.
    Tunneling is also a lame strategy to many players, but when the target of it knows how to handle the situation, they could possibly get to take advantage of it by wasting a lot of the killer's time and getting Adrenaline to pop or anyways getting hooked at a certain point with his team managing to rescue him after many generators have been done and pretty much with the exit gates open.

    I've been the target in this kind of situation, and even if I ended up dying and maybe depipping, at least I actively helped my team securing their escapes and I sure had some genuine fun with a long chase, so at that point I won't even mind if I die.

    The reason why I'm fine with tunneling is also because when I tried to get the Adept Wraith achievement, I really struggled in certain maps to optimize the time that I spent in the chases, since I did that on rank 1, and sure the 3 teachable perks of the Wraith weren't coming in handy at all. I can relate to killers that feel the need to try to do something like that, and I think it can even be justified with some barely useful perks on an below average killer. (I eventually got the achievement, but being on rank 1 didn't help, I had to wait to deal with solo players to be able to kill them all with those ridiculous perks)

    Now, one thing that I really want to point out is, no matter how much toxicity they put into doing it, neither camping nor tunneling are something that I'd blame the killer for doing; I maybe wouldn't do it on their place, but still I don't want to blame a killer that is struggling to gain map pressure for doing anything alike, or neither if it's their standard playstyle. I could maybe rage at them at first, but when lucidly thinking about it, I don't think that it's their fault at all.

    I think that if there's somebody to blame instead, it's rather the game designers who have always promoted camping as a """valid""" strategy, even though it's always been known for utterly ruining the gameplay experience for at least one of the players involved.
    It's quite inconceivable indeed that one working for a game wants its players to rage when dealing with toxic strategies, since that's what they approved and recommended killers to do.

    Let me know your opinions about this!

    P.S. for anybody ready with their dead meme with the doctor showing a "git gud" (or anything on the same level): are you here to make the community rot?
    You're welcome, but before demonstrating your ignorance, arrogance and brain damage, I'd be pleased to see you guys having fun to a camper so that you can prove me wrong, thus before showing your super funny picture, make sure to include a link to a youtube video where you show me your unstoppable fun against any camper player that makes you die within seconds from the first mistake you do, solo survivor game, no good teammates capable of saving, no ds, mic included: even if you're likely 11-12 (deducing from the way you think), it's still legal to make us hear your voice ;)
    It's up to you, either a video or no d*ck comments, thank you and may everybody have a good one :)

    There already is invulnerability during unhook now, its impossible to tunnel rigth of the hook, the other survivor can ALYWAYS bodyblock. Also you got BT, which doesnt even tick down during a chase anymore. What else do you want?

    A killer camping a single survivor is intentionally losing the game, he allows the other 3 survivors to finish all gens and leave because it takes 2 minutes to die on hook.
    if you are always the one being camped, then I would consider takign a closer looka t your playstyle.....

    Nah, I don't play toxic buddy, I used to but I acknowledged it back in the days and sure I wouldn't complain about camping.
    The few times that I give a try to toxic gameplay I sure expect the killer to get upset from my playstyle and I don't have anything to say about that.

    The problem is, on rank 1 I really don't play toxic, I just play to enjoy the game, and that often doesn't happen because it's full of campers. I know that it sounds weird, but there's way too many people getting apparently rewarded by that playstyle rather than punished, and as I said, tunneling is only when you have a chance to keep a chase and gain distance, if the killer is just around and comes back for the unhook while one can't move any further than an open field then I call that camping because it's just like farming survivors off the hook just with a longer time, only an adrenaline, instaheal, or something would save you in that situation.

    You say that killer are getting rewarded more than punished? That's why camping has worked for such a long time because survivors reward it by not repairing gens and giving the killer more easy kills. Although I don't camp, unless both gates are open, I do notice survivors always trying to go in for the saves resulting in their deaths whenever I play survivor.

    Sure it is inefficient, but there's people that don't care about it, they just feel like doing it. I say that killers are rewarded because that's what happens a good 80% of the times on rank 1 when a killer gets genrushed and doesn't know how to react, all he does is facecamping the one person that he manages to catch, blaming us all for being SWF even when we're playing solo.

    If these inexperienced players climb their way up to rank 1, I'm assuming that the only strategy that they live up to is camping, if survivors fed it it's not something to really blame, anyone would feel bad for the victim of camping and would want to give a try in intervening.
    It shouldn't be the community discouraging a lame strategy, it's the developers' duty to get rid of certain game experience ruining stuff, no matter how much it pleases the killer, survivors are just not supposed to be the sex doll to satisfy the killers when they mess their games up and don't know what to do.
    I would like to remind the developers that survivors also spent money into the game and must have their chance to play some rightful games.

    @Tru3Lemon said:
    camping its the most bad strategy that i ever seen and its valid cuz the devs dont know what to do about it thats why theres less survivors and more killers cuz they all do its camp and tunnel for killers its fun for them but for survivors its just unfun so i wonder why playing survivor if you gonna get camp and tunnel i hope they do something about this cuz its a good game and soon servers will be there too

    You're sure overreacting about it, rank 1 is not always like that, killers can get to win their games normally, and even when they lose their games, some of the good ones, just accept loss and don't really camp the last victim, it feels kind of childish for a seasoned killer, and it rather genuinely and obviously feels normal to an inexperienced killer.

    It should be the developers working in order to make sure that when a killer is meant to lose a game, he's just gotta lose it, he shouldn't be able to get that 1k that could maybe turn into a 2k due to hard-camping, that's just not how you rule a multiplayer game.
    Camping's always been a thing and it's always been as frustrating, but back in the days, killers just struggled twice as much to get you, while rather now everything that survivors can do is really limited and skill-capped, which is good on a side, but sure it doesn't help when it gives a free hook by force to a bad killer and eventually that counts as your death.

    in Reasonable points about camping Comment by Vert3x

  • @Master said:

    @Vert3x said:
    This game has evolved since 2016, it's nearly 2019 now, I hope we can all understand that Dead by Daylight loses all its sense and fun when it comes down to camping.

    I'm tired of wasting my time, items, addons, offerings and rank pips into games where I get caught for a single mistake (which sometimes could be conditioned by the game itself) and that's enough to get me punished to death by any unfair playing killer.

    What do I mean with camping:
    What I mean with camping is of course having a killer that stays by the hook or that patrols the nearby area, but I also prefer to include another strategy, similar to tunneling, which is instantly or soon enough downing survivors back as soon as they get unhooked, which is also very unfair and senseless.

    The reason why I want to keep that separated from tunneling is because tunneling is actually prioritizing one (or more) specific survivor(s) to get them out of the game as soon as possible, whether because it's the obsession and the killer's got Dying Light, Remember Me or anything similar, or if it's just an attempt to gain a good map pressure by jumping straight to a 1v3 with (hopefully and supposedly) about 1 generator repaired to the point when the guy gets sacrificed.
    Sure this shouldn't involve having the killer stay by the hook, it should rather be about the killer leaving the hook to handle other tasks, and only as soon as the survivor gets rescued, coming back for it and ignoring everybody else to progress through that guy's sacrifice.
    Tunneling is also a lame strategy to many players, but when the target of it knows how to handle the situation, they could possibly get to take advantage of it by wasting a lot of the killer's time and getting Adrenaline to pop or anyways getting hooked at a certain point with his team managing to rescue him after many generators have been done and pretty much with the exit gates open.

    I've been the target in this kind of situation, and even if I ended up dying and maybe depipping, at least I actively helped my team securing their escapes and I sure had some genuine fun with a long chase, so at that point I won't even mind if I die.

    The reason why I'm fine with tunneling is also because when I tried to get the Adept Wraith achievement, I really struggled in certain maps to optimize the time that I spent in the chases, since I did that on rank 1, and sure the 3 teachable perks of the Wraith weren't coming in handy at all. I can relate to killers that feel the need to try to do something like that, and I think it can even be justified with some barely useful perks on an below average killer. (I eventually got the achievement, but being on rank 1 didn't help, I had to wait to deal with solo players to be able to kill them all with those ridiculous perks)

    Now, one thing that I really want to point out is, no matter how much toxicity they put into doing it, neither camping nor tunneling are something that I'd blame the killer for doing; I maybe wouldn't do it on their place, but still I don't want to blame a killer that is struggling to gain map pressure for doing anything alike, or neither if it's their standard playstyle. I could maybe rage at them at first, but when lucidly thinking about it, I don't think that it's their fault at all.

    I think that if there's somebody to blame instead, it's rather the game designers who have always promoted camping as a """valid""" strategy, even though it's always been known for utterly ruining the gameplay experience for at least one of the players involved.
    It's quite inconceivable indeed that one working for a game wants its players to rage when dealing with toxic strategies, since that's what they approved and recommended killers to do.

    Let me know your opinions about this!

    P.S. for anybody ready with their dead meme with the doctor showing a "git gud" (or anything on the same level): are you here to make the community rot?
    You're welcome, but before demonstrating your ignorance, arrogance and brain damage, I'd be pleased to see you guys having fun to a camper so that you can prove me wrong, thus before showing your super funny picture, make sure to include a link to a youtube video where you show me your unstoppable fun against any camper player that makes you die within seconds from the first mistake you do, solo survivor game, no good teammates capable of saving, no ds, mic included: even if you're likely 11-12 (deducing from the way you think), it's still legal to make us hear your voice ;)
    It's up to you, either a video or no d*ck comments, thank you and may everybody have a good one :)

    There already is invulnerability during unhook now, its impossible to tunnel rigth of the hook, the other survivor can ALYWAYS bodyblock. Also you got BT, which doesnt even tick down during a chase anymore. What else do you want?

    A killer camping a single survivor is intentionally losing the game, he allows the other 3 survivors to finish all gens and leave because it takes 2 minutes to die on hook.
    if you are always the one being camped, then I would consider takign a closer looka t your playstyle.....

    Nah, I don't play toxic buddy, I used to but I acknowledged it back in the days and sure I wouldn't complain about camping.
    The few times that I give a try to toxic gameplay I sure expect the killer to get upset from my playstyle and I don't have anything to say about that.

    The problem is, on rank 1 I really don't play toxic, I just play to enjoy the game, and that often doesn't happen because it's full of campers. I know that it sounds weird, but there's way too many people getting apparently rewarded by that playstyle rather than punished, and as I said, tunneling is only when you have a chance to keep a chase and gain distance, if the killer is just around and comes back for the unhook while one can't move any further than an open field then I call that camping because it's just like farming survivors off the hook just with a longer time, only an adrenaline, instaheal, or something would save you in that situation.

    in Reasonable points about camping Comment by Vert3x

  • @Entità said:
    Killer's perks deserve to be more powerful than survivors', so I accept BBQ has a secondary effect, that is to show far people' Auras, but WGLF should be more effective in giving extra BPs, that is its purpose: now it's too situational, it's improbable to reach four tokens every trial.

    Two possible solutions, according to me:

    1) every altruistic action (healing, protecting, bodyblocking, unhooking...) could be stackable, which means to add new actions able to give tokens;

    OR

    2) every stack could give 37,5% bonus, until a maximum of 150%, without including new actions useful to gain tokens.

    I honestly couldn't agree more. That is legitimately what I was thinking about while scrolling down the replies.
    We're going off topic since OP asked for some specific additional affect other than bloodpoints multiplication, but I agree on the fact that it kinda doesn't need it too much, if they were to do anything about hooks being better and more consistent, it shouldn't be anything perk related, that's the exact mistake that the game designers kept on doing for months: addressing some more or less important issues by introducing perks in the game that, only when ran, will help you out.

    If something specific turned out to be a real issue in this game, say camping increased even on higher ranks and the entire survivors community started being truly sick of it and created threads over threads about it: in that circumstance the devs would likely do something along the lines of creating a Borrowed Time 2.0 or buff the existing one (either by reverting the changes the made around February or by introducing some different features on it), and I think that's a wrong choice, perks are already overly determinant in many situations, both the survivors' and the killers'; you should work directly on the killer's camping ability, since that is 0 skill and gives you too much and is definitely unfun and overpowered, rather than preserving the rot in the game and distributing nose springs by the perks.

    in We're Gonna Live Forever needs a buff Comment by Vert3x

  • The reason why it keeps on happening is because BHVR is too clement with the DC bans, for some weird reason, since they always claimed that they could recognize whether it was the player disconnecting by his choice or if it was the game or anything crashing, therefore having the player that didn't really want to be out of the game.
    I do understand that addressing the whole thing (debuffing to the killer in order to perfectly fit in a 1v3 version of Dead by Daylight and stuff like that) would require some unnecessarily big work which would also make the game heavier, thus what I think they should do is be more consistent with the punishment, something along the lines of: every 3 disconnections you get a kind of timeout of 10 hours and the more you dc, the longer you get punished till you reach your first soft ban.

    If you just let them disconnect till they reach about 30 dcs in a month, then it's pointless, nobody is likely to be afraid of disconnecting and in general you're going to punish a really small portion of the actual Cool Disconnecters Club Inc.

    in Is This A Joke? Comment by Vert3x

  • @Dr_doom_j2 said:
    Vert3x said:

    @redsopine1 said:

    With how often people swarm hook for a save when I'm playing killer of course I'm gonna camp ot

    Ok, now go look at ZubatLEL, ScottJund, Marth88, Tru3Tal3nt, and any decent killer out there, and tell me how much you see them recurring to that even in hard situations. Playing killer is currently a joke compared to playing survivor, which is lost games over lost games because of how much you rely on your team which often will kill you just because they didn't play perfectly (which I'd personally not really expect them to do, I'd have something to say if they play bad or stupidly, but if they don't all play perfectly we shouldn't die).

    Whether you like hearing this or not, I'm playing rank 1 both as survivor and as killer, and I win most of my killer games without even needing ruin whereas I lose most of them as survivor, does this look like a game where the killers struggle so much that they deserve to have these strategies as an option? The streamers that I mentioned earlier didn't ever camp not even back in the days when the game was survivor sided, they just camped in their first year 2016/beginning of 2017 in the game because they were inexperienced, but after a while you realize that it's a lot more challenging to play differently, if you're a good player and not a trashcan at the game of course.

    @Master said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @Master said:

    @Vert3x said:

    @Master said:

    Only if tunneling gens and camping loops is fixed / banns are handed out.

    Tunneling gens and camping loops?

    I think you understood me

    Not really.

    @ChesterTheMolester said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/19450/game-rules-and-report-system#latest

    Not what I meant, I know right that it's currently not bannable and I'd be fine with it not being bannable.> @yeet said:

    no, get good

    Thought there was an age limit to join Dbd in general?

    @Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:

    Vert3x said:

    Tunneling and camping have always been debated but they start deserving a little more attention now that survivors got nerfed in everything and that we would be given limits even in taking a #########.

    It's time to give some importance to the harsh experiences that survivors have in this game as well as it's been given to those that the killer had, and one of these is to deal with tunnelers and campers; not one good killer main needs that, many of them disagree with that play style and it's in general really unfair and unfun.

    Not once you could say that it's fun to get camped or tunneled, and you don't want the game to be unfun for neither one of the sides, don't you, Behav10ur?

    Survivors used to be hard to be gotten on their first hook, so, to a limited extent, camping was even justifiable; but now being hooked is something that has to happen by force at least once during your game unless you're playing immersed or the killer is playing his first game on Dead by Daylight, and thus the killers shouldn't be granted the possibility to play unfair against you in the moments when you're most vulnerable and when you can't do anything at all.

    If I was to play with a Survive With Friends team, not only I would have an easier chance with some teamplay to escape the tunneling/camping, but I'd also understand why the killer would do that, because he's having a hard time too in doing anything against us and he might be inexperienced and feel the necessity to play somewhat unfair.

    But now we're coming down to the point why I'm writing this post: I can't conceive dying to this unfair play style when I'm playing solo, I'm not using any "crutch" perk or addon and I'm not teasing the killer in any way at all. This just can't happen and be all normal, especially if I'm on rank 1, killers that play like scumbags shouldn't reach any rank higher than 15, and that's it.

    Do you want this not to be bannable? Don't make it bannable, it's fine, but prevent it to the fullest from happening, give the killer some huge debuffs if he tries to hit the just unhooked survivor as well as giving no damage to the survivor himself, freeze him if he stands around the hook for too long, don't let this ######### happen anymore, these are just ideas:

    it's the end of 2018 and if there's one toxic and lame strategy (which you bhvr guys loved to call "legitimate" and "valid") that ruined the game since its beginning and that probably caused many players to quit it from the gold time that it had in 2016, that is the killer sitting around your hook once he's done catching you with you not having half a chance to escape from that.

    It's just time to either provide any valid motivation (not as valid as you claim that camping is as a strategy, since it isn't) why you wouldn't want to touch this in any direct way, or to actually abruptly apply some drastic changes to the hook context.

    Now, I did vent some anger in this post since I'm really tired of dealing with this and even though I've got 1200hrs in the game I'm disabled from doing anything against it, but I really am convinced about what I said here, those are just 100% no-fun strategies, you don't want to keep them in the game, not one decent person in the community is glad of it being a thing, some just take it but nobody would disagree with it being gotten rid of.

    Oh boy, another one of these "I don't like how killers play so I think they should get banned" threads.

    Fix or bans doesn't mean please ban all of them immediately. I'm fine with no bans, but that needs to be removed from the game, it's been unaddressed for way too long, if you guys are serious players of this game camping is not even anything you'd really consider, so you're either new players or you're talking about something you shouldn't really care about.> @Chrona said:

    In a word, no.

    Camping is literally an intregal part and even an advertised strategy for this game

    If that's an advised strategy, after all the ######### that the killers can do without it already (nurse/billy/huntress/spirit with more than ~150hrs played on that killer = no chance for the survivors to ever consider escaping, par example), then this game can't be taken seriously by anyone, but since there's a quite large community I'm assuming that you just invented that straight away.

    As I already said, not one good player ever thinks of recurring to camping or tunneling, I don't see what you guys have to defend about it unless you're bad players yourselves.

    No good player will try to camp because it simply is a stupid tactic. Survivors with any brain will just do the gens while you are afk in front of the hook and leave. Comitting to camping will simply make you lose the game against competent survivors.

    Tunneling is just common sense, just like you go back to the gen you already repaired to 60% instead of strating a new one

    Nah, camping gives you too much in most situations, people were just bored of getting free kills without deserving them after a while, I'm assuming.

    And also, I'd rather examining the point of view of a camped survivor rather than the killers', if I get hardcamped and they get the gens done quickly, I honestly couldn't care any less, I just wanted my chance to play the game that I've been in, because otherwise I could just do something else in my life rather than wasting my time in front of a scum player.

    Also about tunneling, I win most of my killer games by letting the freshly unhooked survivors go even if they're in front of me, and that just makes the game more fun for both of us and more challenging for me. I wouldn't really compare that to the gens.> @Dragonredking said:

    @Vert3x said:

    If that's an advised strategy, after all the ######### that the killers can do without it already (nurse/billy/huntress/spirit with more than ~150hrs played on that killer = no chance for the survivors to ever consider escaping, par example), then this game can't be taken seriously by anyone, but since there's a quite large community I'm assuming that you just invented that straight away.

    
  
  
    Skip to 41 second
    
  
  
    The game director as been promoting camping since day one
    
  
  
    He also camped in a majority of the game that he streamed back when he occasionaly streamed
    
  
  
    Welcome to the real world where have you been?
    
  
  
    
  
  
    I know perfectly that the devs have been approving these strategies since the beginning, and I mentioned that a couple of times in my post, claiming that it's time for it to no longer by any valid because of the changes that the game received.
    
  
  
    Welcome to my post, what have you read before commenting?
    
  
  
    @dontTouchMyGens said:
    
  
  
    How would you define tunneling? If I get an unhook notification and happen to run into the guy who just got unhooked when checking it out, he goes back to the hook. If I see both the rescued guy and the one who rescued him, it depends. When I’m struggling in the match, I will probably go after the guy I hooked before. Taking one survivor out of the game massively increases my chances of winning. In general, I will not actively look for one specific guy, but I certainly will not spare him if I run into him. 
    
  
  
    
  
  
    I do that as well, if I was far away from the hook and the rescuer hides it's his fault, I can't just leave the unhooked guy if he's the only guy that I have in front of me, one thing is not tunneling and giving chances and another is cooperating with the survivors. Nice points tho> @EntityDispleased said:
    
  
  
    Camping is the only thing I really dislike at the moment but tunneling is the only way killers can control the match and not get genrushed to #########. Until the devs finally extend the objectives/have survivors work a lot longer to escape, tunneling will still be a thing. I also think the pallet changes were a bit way too much since with the right build you can wipe out half the pallets on the map before your ruin even gets destroyed and it's tilting for survivors and quite boring for killers imo.
    
  
  
    
  
  
    Nice point on the pallets, about tunneling because of genrush, I usually slug at most, but I often turn out to just apply enough map pressure by just hooking the survivors quite frequently. Nice that someone doesn't come here yelling at me and that is an actual reasonable person, even if you agree with the argued play styles.
    
  
  
    @redsopine1 said:
    
  
  
    @not_queen can you shead some light or help stop this thread from becoming a pointless argument against somone that wants a dev backed tactic gone
    
  
  
    
  
  
    Dude we're in 2018, that just needs to be addressed, if you're one of those campers that never lost the habit since 2016, it's time to lose it. The survivors got nerfed to their core, you can't still have these strategies available as killer. The game changed, did you notice that 1.0.0 turning into a 2.3.2 while starting your game and the last number in the date in the bottom right corner turning into 2018 from 2016?
    
  
  
    @DemonDaddy said:
    
  
  
    Not condoning it, but how do you limit tunneling in any form without affecting every other aspect of the game? Most of the time switching targets is not ideal, especially for those killers whom have less skill. If you have multiple survivors evading well, ofcourse focus goes to the weak link. How do you stop this without creating an opportunity to abuse the new safety? I agree its not fun, but I also don't want to take a killer's choice of play from them.
    
  
  
    
  
  
    Ah killers have plenty of chances, I'd say that an intense level of tunneling would deserve being addressed, if you focus on a survivor whenever he gets freed but he always has his chance to hold a chase against you, then that could be fine. Maybe they could give a decent timer to the negative buffs affecting the killer in case he attacks the freshly unhooked survivor, so that after a while, even if he kept on chasing him, he shouldn't really get anything bad from catching them.
    
  
  
    @Kebek said:
    
  
  
    You probably can't even notice how foolish those ideas of yours sound. You are trying to punish killers for using intended features.
    
  
  
    How would you like getting downed for working on gen for more then 10s without taking 30s break to prevent you from gen rushing which is considered to be toxic. You probably wouldn't like it right.
    
  
  
    Learn to live with camping and tunneling since they can only be discouraged which I agree with but you can't ever force people to not do them since they are part of the game as any toxic or annoying behaviour survivors can do legitimately.
    
  
  
    
  
  
    That's where you're wrong, survivors could be toxic and annoying, but that really is just exposing them more than they already are since the latest updates of the game, the killer can just easily catch the survivors by force, there's nothing survivors can do, winning a chase as survivor is only possible if the killer decides to leave him because he feels like he's wasting time. And for you too, intended features are not always balanced, even instablind flashlights and instagenning brand new parts were intended features, those weren't bugs, but devs had to address them because of their lack of balancing in the game.> @ad19970 said:
    
  
  
    Well right now with gen rush still being this effective especially tunneling is like the most viable strategy against an incredibly good survivor team that can rush through generators very fast, and especially with some low tier killers the only way to have any chance to win against an almost perfect survivor team. Punishing those players with dc is just not fair at all.
    
  
  
    There's not much they can do against it now. I agree though that both of these strategies are not good and very frustrating for survivors. If they ever nerf gen rush, than by all means nerfing camping and tunneling would be a must. I hate both of those strategies, but even then sometimes there is little else I can do as a killer than tunnel.
    
  
  
    Just also don't confuse camping with hook patrolling, which killers often need to do if they suspect a survivor near the hook.
    
  
  
    
  
  
    Yeah, another guy said the same, I personally don't really find it hard, but tunneling because of the genrush is more acceptable than the close minded thoughts that some other users are having in here.> @Just_Meh said:
    
  
  
    Camping is a viable strategy. 
    


    Tunneling is a smart strategy. 

Going after injured players is smart. 

    
  
  
    Let's first fix what's broken. 
    
  
  
    
  
  
    You just listed yourself what is broken, so let's fix it, yeah.> @Chrona said:
    
  
  
    @vert3x first of all, "tunnelling" is a good strategy, end of story.  Is it fun for the survivor?  No, but neither is descisive strike, flashlights, totems getting broken seconds into the match fun for the killer. 
    
  
  
    And I said advertised, not advised.  Secondly, if it was something the devs didnt want us to do ever, period, insidious, hook interupt grabs, etc, wouldn't be a thing.  And yeah, if I'm playing against good survivors, or a 4 man swf, I'll hard camp.  For one, why not?  For two, they more often than not flock to the hook.  I can usually get at least one in exchange for them getting tthat one off the hook.
    
  
  
    
  
  
    Yeah if you have to mention flashlights among the frustrating things after the changes they received in the past summer which made flashlight saving occasional, then I'd assume your playtime is averagely 100hrs.
    
  
  
    About the second part, again, devs used to want instablinds and instagens on the bnps as well, yet they got removed/made useless because of how broken they were, and the same should happen to this.
    
  
  
    
  
  
    So, you throw like, 4 popular killer streamers out yhere, just tell everyone play like them,  amd expect us to take you serious, but when killers used Marth88's experiment to display how weak killers were to SWF, it's invalid, for so many reasons, including "No one really plays like thay, Marth and his crew are exceptionally good, they are the exception!" 
    
  
  
    I'm just saying, that double standards feom where I'm standing. And regardless of you being bad at survivor, there are plenty of survivors who haven't made a peep about most of the changes. Plenty with much more tham 1200 hours. This is what happens when the easy side is no longer easy. I mean come on man, you act like there arent Survivor streamers out there still killing it.  Go look up Jendenise if you need.
    

    


    Yeah go look up a 4 man premade player that uses DS and instaheals in most of her games, that's the way you go.
    
This game is rotten, and one of the reasons why it is is this toxic community. Keep on saying "get good" and "you're bad at the game" while you're playing the easy role and people just come at you saying that they aren't enjoying their gameplay, then once balancing will kick in (cause if it won't the game will die) expect us to say the same to you guys who will struggle to barely get a kill per game because you likely didn't develop any skill but the capability of pressing S and walking backwards to hide your red stain.
    

            
    
            
    
                in                     
Camping and tunneling, any fixes or bans?


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @twistedmonkey said:
    
  Camping and tunnelling may feel annoying if its happening to you but its part of the game that everyone has to accept it, its a PVP game and people will use whatever helps them to gain an advantage and win.
    
  
  
    Yes things change but to overly punish camping and tunnelling does not make any sense, to get players to stop it means you have to change their mindset, you cannot punish someone for using a viable strategy which makes perfect sense to do at times, why do you think someone should not go after the weakest survivor if they see one at full health and one injured? they have introduced some perks to persuade those to go after another and also leave the hook but this only works if they use those perks.
    
  
  
    The punishment is already in the game by way of the survivors doing gens and getting out, this lead to all the gen rush complaints starting as the strategy isnt as viable all the time, the problem is the gens speed helps against camping but it also makes it worse for those who dont, it then means tunnelling and camping are the best way to secure the game goes slower, taking someone out quickly makes the most sense.
    
  
  
    The only thing the devs can do to try and help right now is to make it worthwhile for the killer to leave or go after another person, they have been trying this but with how quick the game can potentially be finished both of these strategies will have a firm place in the game until it has changed, even if they do make major changes some will still go after the injured person as it makes perfect sense to do so.
    
  
  
    What we have to remember when playing survivor is the killer is not our friend, they are not there to make the game fun for us, they are there to kill us by any means.
    

    


    I'm not expecting the killers to not recur to it, the most I can do with them is calling them the worst killers of dbd, but I'd expect the devs to do something in order for this not to happen. > @redsopine1 said:
    


    
  
    Seriously I was pointing out the only times I camp is when they swarm the hook shesh I have days worth of live broadcasts (plus3 Friday the 13th that for some reason says dbd) where I leave the hook to chase other's I only camp because I see people right next to my hook or marks after I make a hook and sure I tunnel but I tunnel the asholes that teabag every chance they get or dont play the game and just follow me for flashlight blinds or saves or a cheap pallet stun that had no reason to be used there the ones I boot from the game with hard camps and tunnelling if your just here to be a ass and not help people you are going to go out the game otherwise your respectful so am I heck even if I bring a ebony into a match I only use it if there being jerks otherwise it's hook and repeat
    

    


    That's not camping dude, that's hook patrolling and it's legitimate especially if you know that someone's about to swarm the hook. You do want to keep your map pressure with that hook.> @se05239 said:
    


    
  
    
    
    @Dragonredking said:
    
    
    
    
      
    @Vert3x said:
    
      If that's an advised strategy, after all the ######### that the killers can do without it already (nurse/billy/huntress/spirit with more than ~150hrs played on that killer = no chance for the survivors to ever consider escaping, par example), then this game can't be taken seriously by anyone, but since there's a quite large community I'm assuming that you just invented that straight away.
    
    
    
    
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS3DvvOQI04&t=41s
    
    Skip to 41 second
    
    The game director as been promoting camping since day one
    
    He also camped in a majority of the game that he streamed back when he occasionaly streamed
    
    Welcome to the real world where have you been?
    
  
    
  
  
    Our boy Mathieu knows his #########. He favorite tactic was Insidious Trapper with traps in front of the hook (when it was possible).
    

    


    Yup, indeed he was known for his sentence "Play something else", his experience in DbD is not to be mentioned.
    


    
  
    @Peasant said:
    
  
  
    
    
    @Vert3x said:
    
    Give the killer some huge debuffs if he tries to hit the just unhooked survivor as well as giving no damage to the survivor himself, freeze him if he stands around the hook for too long, don't let this ######### happen anymore, these are just ideas:
    
  
    
  
  
    First of all, give the killer a debuff for striking a survivor? Yeah, that'll happen right after the survivors all recieve a movement and interaction speed penalty for each generator completed (that stacks). It is the killer's duty to kill. Punishing the killer for hitting a survivor, regardless of the time of that hit is foolish and ill-advised.
    
  
  
    Now as much as I disapproved of your initial suggestion of a debuff for the killer. I suppose I could tolerate such a mechanic as long as the survivor took the damage. However, you suggest that on top of the killer being punished for hitting a survivor, you want the the attack to do no damage? This suggestion is immensely immature and belittes yourself and survivor mains everywhere. The developers have already implemented in a mechanic to grant survivors immunity to damage during the unhooking process. This mechanic has been known to bug out which ultimately results in your proposal already. Survivors are granted numerous tools to escape the hook. Kindred can provide your allies with better information with which to plan a rescue. Sprint Burst will trigger the minute you start running after being unhooked granting you a headstart. Borrowed Time and Dead Hard can buy you extra time to escape if used well. You already have so many assets to help you escape the hook and yet you have the audacity to ask for more? I'm sorely dissapointed in you @Vert3x. The killer is a player too and your complete disregard for them shows me how little you truly care about this game's issues. I strongly encourage you to get better at the game or get out of this community. Now then, let's continue.
    
  
  
    Your proposal to stun the killer for defending their objective is simply absurd. Not all camping is planned and deliberate. Several individuals only camp when your fellow survivors show up immediately after they hook you. To punish the killer then for remaining to defend the hook they had to earn through a chase is madness. If killers are to be stunned for defending a hook then by all means let's freeze survivors who stay near the same generator for 30 seconds in place.
    
  
  
    You end your statement with "don't let this ######### happen anymore". This tells me that you want to see real change. Let me help you with that.  While some killers camp because they are new ("inexperienced") or as a response to overly altruistic survivors, some killers are merely trolls who camp to get a reaction. So to stop camping all you have to do are these simple things:
    
  
  
    • Make the killer have to work extra hard to get you on a hook, buy your allies time
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    • If the killer is nearby, signal your allies with the 99% struggle bar wave
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    • Stay on the hook to buy your allies more time to get out.
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    • If you aren't hooked and see the wave, rush generators.
      • 
  
    • Most importantly, stop whining and just accept it. As I stated above, some camp just for a reaction, and posts like this are a reaction. If nobody cares about camping and we all effectively counter it the strategy becomes undesirable and will no longer be used.
      • 
  
    


    I don't know what to tell you dude, you're defending the ######### out of a broken strategy. And don't come telling me that it's supposed to be in the game, because the people that forced that strategy in the game is the bhvr guys, those same guys who made the killer experience complete garbage for the whole year of 2017 and those same guys that are keeping DS overpowered as is just like it was golden. It is not something to solve through the community or by not caring about those games where you get camped, it's something that just shouldn't happen, if you really like comparing it to the generators, it's like letting the survivors stick on the generators without the killer being able to hit them or grab them off the gen, just sitting on it and gaining progress, no matter if in the end they'll only earn Objective bloodpoints and will probably lose a pip, because they'll still ruin the game of the killer.
    


    I know that my ideas are out of context for the general concept of the killer,  but that just needs a better addressing, and punishment looked the best to me, even though you're punishing something that the killer is by standard supposed to do. They've been trying to softly discourage it in long periods of time (as already mentioned) with perks and emblems, but that was partially successful, and something that directly ruins the game experience for anyone, whether it's the killer or the survivors,  should be out of here in general.
    

            
    
            
    
                in                     
Camping and tunneling, any fixes or bans?


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @redsopine1 said:
    
  With how often people swarm hook for a save when I'm playing killer of course I'm gonna camp ot
    

    


    Ok, now go look at ZubatLEL, ScottJund, Marth88, Tru3Tal3nt, and any decent killer out there, and tell me how much you see them recurring to that even in hard situations. Playing killer is currently a joke compared to playing survivor, which is lost games over lost games because of how much you rely on your team which often will kill you just because they didn't play perfectly (which I'd personally not really expect them to do, I'd have something to say if they play bad or stupidly, but if they don't all play perfectly we shouldn't die).
    


    Whether you like hearing this or not, I'm playing rank 1 both as survivor and as killer, and I win most of my killer games without even needing ruin whereas I lose most of them as survivor, does this look like a game where the killers struggle so much that they deserve to have these strategies as an option? The streamers that I mentioned earlier didn't ever camp not even back in the days when the game was survivor sided, they just camped in their first year 2016/beginning of 2017 in the game because they were inexperienced, but after a while you realize that it's a lot more challenging to play differently, if you're a good player and not a trashcan at the game of course.
    


    
  
    @Master said:
    
  
  
    
    
    @Vert3x said:
    
    
    
    
      
    @Master said:
    
      
      
    
        
    @Vert3x said:
    
        
        
    
          
    @Master said:
    
          Only if tunneling gens and camping loops is fixed / banns are handed out.
    
        
    
        
        
    Tunneling gens and camping loops?
    
      
    
      
      
    I think you understood me
    
    
    
    
    
    Not really.
    
    
    
    
      
    @ChesterTheMolester said:
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/19450/game-rules-and-report-system#latest
    
    
    
    
    
    Not what I meant, I know right that it's currently not bannable and I'd be fine with it not being bannable.> @yeet said:
    
    
    
    
      
    no, get good
    
    
    
    
    
    Thought there was an age limit to join Dbd in general?
    
    
    
    
      
    @Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:
    
      Vert3x said:
    
      
      
    Tunneling and camping have always been debated but they start deserving a little more attention now that survivors got nerfed in everything and that we would be given limits even in taking a #########.
    
      
      
    It's time to give some importance to the harsh experiences that survivors have in this game as well as it's been given to those that the killer had, and one of these is to deal with tunnelers and campers; not one good killer main needs that, many of them disagree with that play style and it's in general really unfair and unfun.
    
      
      
    Not once you could say that it's fun to get camped or tunneled, and you don't want the game to be unfun for neither one of the sides, don't you, Behav10ur?
    
      
      
    Survivors used to be hard to be gotten on their first hook, so, to a limited extent, camping was even justifiable; but now being hooked is something that has to happen by force at least once during your game unless you're playing immersed or the killer is playing his first game on Dead by Daylight, and thus the killers shouldn't be granted the possibility to play unfair against you in the moments when you're most vulnerable and when you can't do anything at all.
    
      
      
    If I was to play with a Survive With Friends team, not only I would have an easier chance with some teamplay to escape the tunneling/camping, but I'd also understand why the killer would do that, because he's having a hard time too in doing anything against us and he might be inexperienced and feel the necessity to play somewhat unfair.
    
      
      
    But now we're coming down to the point why I'm writing this post: I can't conceive dying to this unfair play style when I'm playing solo, I'm not using any "crutch" perk or addon and I'm not teasing the killer in any way at all. This just can't happen and be all normal, especially if I'm on rank 1, killers that play like scumbags shouldn't reach any rank higher than 15, and that's it.
    
      
      
    Do you want this not to be bannable? Don't make it bannable, it's fine, but prevent it to the fullest from happening, give the killer some huge debuffs if he tries to hit the just unhooked survivor as well as giving no damage to the survivor himself, freeze him if he stands around the hook for too long, don't let this ######### happen anymore, these are just ideas:
    
      
      
    it's the end of 2018 and if there's one toxic and lame strategy (which you bhvr guys loved to call "legitimate" and "valid") that ruined the game since its beginning and that probably caused many players to quit it from the gold time that it had in 2016, that is the killer sitting around your hook once he's done catching you with you not having half a chance to escape from that.
    
      
      
    It's just time to either provide any valid motivation (not as valid as you claim that camping is as a strategy, since it isn't) why you wouldn't want to touch this in any direct way, or to actually abruptly apply some drastic changes to the hook context.
    
      
      
    Now, I did vent some anger in this post since I'm really tired of dealing with this and even though I've got 1200hrs in the game I'm disabled from doing anything against it, but I really am convinced about what I said here, those are just 100% no-fun strategies, you don't want to keep them in the game, not one decent person in the community is glad of it being a thing, some just take it but nobody would disagree with it being gotten rid of.
    
      
      
    
      
      
    Oh boy, another one of these "I don't like how killers play so I think they should get banned" threads.
    
    
    
    
    
    Fix or bans doesn't mean please ban all of them immediately. I'm fine with no bans, but that needs to be removed from the game, it's been unaddressed for way too long, if you guys are serious players of this game camping is not even anything you'd really consider, so you're either new players or you're talking about something you shouldn't really care about.> @Chrona said:
    
    
    
    
      
    In a word, no.
    
      
      
    Camping is literally an intregal part and even an advertised strategy for this game
    
    
    
    
    
    If that's an advised strategy, after all the ######### that the killers can do without it already (nurse/billy/huntress/spirit with more than ~150hrs played on that killer = no chance for the survivors to ever consider escaping, par example), then this game can't be taken seriously by anyone, but since there's a quite large community I'm assuming that you just invented that straight away.
    
    
    
    As I already said, not one good player ever thinks of recurring to camping or tunneling, I don't see what you guys have to defend about it unless you're bad players yourselves.
    
  
    
  
  
    No good player will try to camp because it simply is a stupid tactic. Survivors with any brain will just do the gens while you are afk in front of the hook and leave. Comitting to camping will simply make you lose the game against competent survivors.
    
  
  
    Tunneling is just common sense, just like you go back to the gen you already repaired to 60% instead of strating a new one
    

    


    Nah, camping gives you too much in most situations, people were just bored of getting free kills without deserving them after a while, I'm assuming.
    
And also, I'd rather examining the point of view of a camped survivor rather than the killers', if I get hardcamped and they get the gens done quickly, I honestly couldn't care any less, I just wanted my chance to play the game that I've been in, because otherwise I could just do something else in my life rather than wasting my time in front of a scum player.
    
Also about tunneling, I win most of my killer games by letting the freshly unhooked survivors go even if they're in front of me, and that just makes the game more fun for both of us and more challenging for me. I wouldn't really compare that to the gens.> @Dragonredking said:
    


    
  
    
    
    @Vert3x said:
    
    If that's an advised strategy, after all the ######### that the killers can do without it already (nurse/billy/huntress/spirit with more than ~150hrs played on that killer = no chance for the survivors to ever consider escaping, par example), then this game can't be taken seriously by anyone, but since there's a quite large community I'm assuming that you just invented that straight away.
    
  
    
  
  
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS3DvvOQI04&t=41s
    
  Skip to 41 second
    
  The game director as been promoting camping since day one
    
  He also camped in a majority of the game that he streamed back when he occasionaly streamed
    
  Welcome to the real world where have you been?
    

    


    I know perfectly that the devs have been approving these strategies since the beginning, and I mentioned that a couple of times in my post, claiming that it's time for it to no longer by any valid because of the changes that the game received.
    
Welcome to my post, what have you read before commenting?
    


    
  
    @dontTouchMyGens said:
    
  How would you define tunneling? If I get an unhook notification and happen to run into the guy who just got unhooked when checking it out, he goes back to the hook. If I see both the rescued guy and the one who rescued him, it depends. When I’m struggling in the match, I will probably go after the guy I hooked before. Taking one survivor out of the game massively increases my chances of winning. In general, I will not actively look for one specific guy, but I certainly will not spare him if I run into him. 
    

    


    I do that as well, if I was far away from the hook and the rescuer hides it's his fault, I can't just leave the unhooked guy if he's the only guy that I have in front of me, one thing is not tunneling and giving chances and another is cooperating with the survivors. Nice points tho> @EntityDispleased said:
    


    
  
    Camping is the only thing I really dislike at the moment but tunneling is the only way killers can control the match and not get genrushed to #########. Until the devs finally extend the objectives/have survivors work a lot longer to escape, tunneling will still be a thing. I also think the pallet changes were a bit way too much since with the right build you can wipe out half the pallets on the map before your ruin even gets destroyed and it's tilting for survivors and quite boring for killers imo.
    

    


    Nice point on the pallets, about tunneling because of genrush, I usually slug at most, but I often turn out to just apply enough map pressure by just hooking the survivors quite frequently. Nice that someone doesn't come here yelling at me and that is an actual reasonable person, even if you agree with the argued play styles.
    


    
  
    @redsopine1 said:
    @not_queen can you shead some light or help stop this thread from becoming a pointless argument against somone that wants a dev backed tactic gone
    

    


    Dude we're in 2018, that just needs to be addressed, if you're one of those campers that never lost the habit since 2016, it's time to lose it. The survivors got nerfed to their core, you can't still have these strategies available as killer. The game changed, did you notice that 1.0.0 turning into a 2.3.2 while starting your game and the last number in the date in the bottom right corner turning into 2018 from 2016?
    


    
  
    @DemonDaddy said:
    
  Not condoning it, but how do you limit tunneling in any form without affecting every other aspect of the game? Most of the time switching targets is not ideal, especially for those killers whom have less skill. If you have multiple survivors evading well, ofcourse focus goes to the weak link. How do you stop this without creating an opportunity to abuse the new safety? I agree its not fun, but I also don't want to take a killer's choice of play from them.
    

    


    Ah killers have plenty of chances, I'd say that an intense level of tunneling would deserve being addressed, if you focus on a survivor whenever he gets freed but he always has his chance to hold a chase against you, then that could be fine. Maybe they could give a decent timer to the negative buffs affecting the killer in case he attacks the freshly unhooked survivor, so that after a while, even if he kept on chasing him, he shouldn't really get anything bad from catching them.
    


    
  
    @Kebek said:
    
  You probably can't even notice how foolish those ideas of yours sound. You are trying to punish killers for using intended features.
    
  How would you like getting downed for working on gen for more then 10s without taking 30s break to prevent you from gen rushing which is considered to be toxic. You probably wouldn't like it right.
    
  Learn to live with camping and tunneling since they can only be discouraged which I agree with but you can't ever force people to not do them since they are part of the game as any toxic or annoying behaviour survivors can do legitimately.
    

    


    That's where you're wrong, survivors could be toxic and annoying, but that really is just exposing them more than they already are since the latest updates of the game, the killer can just easily catch the survivors by force, there's nothing survivors can do, winning a chase as survivor is only possible if the killer decides to leave him because he feels like he's wasting time. And for you too, intended features are not always balanced, even instablind flashlights and instagenning brand new parts were intended features, those weren't bugs, but devs had to address them because of their lack of balancing in the game.> @ad19970 said:
    


    
  
    Well right now with gen rush still being this effective especially tunneling is like the most viable strategy against an incredibly good survivor team that can rush through generators very fast, and especially with some low tier killers the only way to have any chance to win against an almost perfect survivor team. Punishing those players with dc is just not fair at all. 
    
  There's not much they can do against it now. I agree though that both of these strategies are not good and very frustrating for survivors. If they ever nerf gen rush, than by all means nerfing camping and tunneling would be a must. I hate both of those strategies, but even then sometimes there is little else I can do as a killer than tunnel.
    
  
  
    Just also don't confuse camping with hook patrolling, which killers often need to do if they suspect a survivor near the hook.
    

    


    Yeah, another guy said the same, I personally don't really find it hard, but tunneling because of the genrush is more acceptable than the close minded thoughts that some other users are having in here.> @Just_Meh said:
    


    
  
    Camping is a viable strategy. 
    
  
  
    Tunneling is a smart strategy. 
    
  
  
    Going after injured players is smart. 
    
  
  
    Let's first fix what's broken. 
    

    


    You just listed yourself what is broken, so let's fix it, yeah.> @Chrona said:
    


    
  
    @vert3x first of all, "tunnelling" is a good strategy, end of story.  Is it fun for the survivor?  No, but neither is descisive strike, flashlights, totems getting broken seconds into the match fun for the killer. 
    
  
  
    And I said advertised, not advised.  Secondly, if it was something the devs didnt want us to do ever, period, insidious, hook interupt grabs, etc, wouldn't be a thing.  And yeah, if I'm playing against good survivors, or a 4 man swf, I'll hard camp.  For one, why not?  For two, they more often than not flock to the hook.  I can usually get at least one in exchange for them getting tthat one off the hook.
    

    


    Yeah if you have to mention flashlights among the frustrating things after the changes they received in the past summer which made flashlight saving occasional, then I'd assume your playtime is averagely 100hrs.
    
About the second part, again, devs used to want instablinds and instagens on the bnps as well, yet they got removed/made useless because of how broken they were, and the same should happen to this.
    

            
    
            
    
                in                     
Camping and tunneling, any fixes or bans?


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @Master said:
    
  
  
    
    
    @Vert3x said:
    
    
    
    
      
    @Master said:
    
      Only if tunneling gens and camping loops is fixed / banns are handed out.
    
    
    
    
    
    Tunneling gens and camping loops?
    
  
    
  
  
    I think you understood me
    

    


    Not really.
    


    
  
    @ChesterTheMolester said:
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/19450/game-rules-and-report-system#latest
    

    


    Not what I meant, I know right that it's currently not bannable and I'd be fine with it not being bannable.> @yeet said:
    


    
  
    no, get good
    

    


    Thought there was an age limit to join Dbd in general?
    


    
  
    @Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:
    
  Vert3x said:
    
  
  
    Tunneling and camping have always been debated but they start deserving a little more attention now that survivors got nerfed in everything and that we would be given limits even in taking a #########.
    
  
  
    It's time to give some importance to the harsh experiences that survivors have in this game as well as it's been given to those that the killer had, and one of these is to deal with tunnelers and campers; not one good killer main needs that, many of them disagree with that play style and it's in general really unfair and unfun.
    
  
  
    Not once you could say that it's fun to get camped or tunneled, and you don't want the game to be unfun for neither one of the sides, don't you, Behav10ur?
    
  
  
    Survivors used to be hard to be gotten on their first hook, so, to a limited extent, camping was even justifiable; but now being hooked is something that has to happen by force at least once during your game unless you're playing immersed or the killer is playing his first game on Dead by Daylight, and thus the killers shouldn't be granted the possibility to play unfair against you in the moments when you're most vulnerable and when you can't do anything at all.
    
  
  
    If I was to play with a Survive With Friends team, not only I would have an easier chance with some teamplay to escape the tunneling/camping, but I'd also understand why the killer would do that, because he's having a hard time too in doing anything against us and he might be inexperienced and feel the necessity to play somewhat unfair.
    
  
  
    But now we're coming down to the point why I'm writing this post: I can't conceive dying to this unfair play style when I'm playing solo, I'm not using any "crutch" perk or addon and I'm not teasing the killer in any way at all. This just can't happen and be all normal, especially if I'm on rank 1, killers that play like scumbags shouldn't reach any rank higher than 15, and that's it.
    
  
  
    Do you want this not to be bannable? Don't make it bannable, it's fine, but prevent it to the fullest from happening, give the killer some huge debuffs if he tries to hit the just unhooked survivor as well as giving no damage to the survivor himself, freeze him if he stands around the hook for too long, don't let this ######### happen anymore, these are just ideas:
    
  
  
    it's the end of 2018 and if there's one toxic and lame strategy (which you bhvr guys loved to call "legitimate" and "valid") that ruined the game since its beginning and that probably caused many players to quit it from the gold time that it had in 2016, that is the killer sitting around your hook once he's done catching you with you not having half a chance to escape from that.
    
  
  
    It's just time to either provide any valid motivation (not as valid as you claim that camping is as a strategy, since it isn't) why you wouldn't want to touch this in any direct way, or to actually abruptly apply some drastic changes to the hook context.
    
  
  
    Now, I did vent some anger in this post since I'm really tired of dealing with this and even though I've got 1200hrs in the game I'm disabled from doing anything against it, but I really am convinced about what I said here, those are just 100% no-fun strategies, you don't want to keep them in the game, not one decent person in the community is glad of it being a thing, some just take it but nobody would disagree with it being gotten rid of.
    
  
  
    
  
  
    Oh boy, another one of these "I don't like how killers play so I think they should get banned" threads.
    

    


    Fix or bans doesn't mean please ban all of them immediately. I'm fine with no bans, but that needs to be removed from the game, it's been unaddressed for way too long, if you guys are serious players of this game camping is not even anything you'd really consider, so you're either new players or you're talking about something you shouldn't really care about.> @Chrona said:
    


    
  
    In a word, no.
    
  
  
    Camping is literally an intregal part and even an advertised strategy for this game
    

    


    If that's an advised strategy, after all the ######### that the killers can do without it already (nurse/billy/huntress/spirit with more than ~150hrs played on that killer = no chance for the survivors to ever consider escaping, par example), then this game can't be taken seriously by anyone, but since there's a quite large community I'm assuming that you just invented that straight away.
    


    As I already said, not one good player ever thinks of recurring to camping or tunneling, I don't see what you guys have to defend about it unless you're bad players yourselves.
    

            
    
            
    
                in                     
Camping and tunneling, any fixes or bans?


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @Master said:
    
  Only if tunneling gens and camping loops is fixed / banns are handed out.
    

    


    Tunneling gens and camping loops?
    

            
    
            
    
                in                     
Camping and tunneling, any fixes or bans?


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @ad19970 said:
    
  
  
    
    
    @Vert3x said:
    
    
    
    
      
    @twistedmonkey said:
    
      
      
    
        
    @No_Cluie_Louis said:
    
      
    
      
      
    
      
      
    
        
    On the other hand though. These flowers are the reason no one is playing survivor, it's just too difficult to do 5 gens + 5 shorter gens
    
      
    
      
      
    That was my point ;), in adding another objective into this event some of the nerf's over the past few months seem like they could be obsolete and need reverting or reworked.
    
      
      
    A Fog Whisperer did say on stream the event it was a test regarding more objectives being added into the game, they said the  devs want to remove bloodlust from the game and also the healing nerf would no longer be needed, just two examples of changes made which could need to be reworked.
    
    
    
    
    
    That'd really make this game a 5 stars.
    
    
    
    More valuable objectives (I say valuable because we don't want dull totems 2.0) but more intense chases and more opportunities to the survivors in the chases. You often get undeservedly hooked nowadays, the killers should really only get a free hook in case the survivor they chase is bad, not in case they just have a chainsaw that charges instantly because of x addons rather than the machine gun build on huntress or rather than because they're playing nurse.
    
    
    
    Not only Bloodlust should get removed to be honest, I think that if a new non event-related objective came out and nullified genrush, I'd like to see pallets increased in some maps, not the pallet vacuum which has always been bs, but just the quantity of pallets, it'd also be nice to see the old times 4.3 seconds pick up animation too, currently flashlight saving is viable but the killer will predict it after once that you get it done; I'm fine with Lightborn completely preventing flashlight saves, it's one perk that the killer, the 1 that is vs 4 survivors, is using specifically for that matter, so I would agree on that choice but I don't agree on the really quick timing that you often can't get in time just because some baby killers complained. It also feels like it's easier to get the flashlight saves, back in the days when you waited a longer time it looked much nicer in my opinion.
    
    
    
    If all of this was done, beyond bugs, beyond the lack of dedicated servers, beyond camping and tunneling, I'd really think this game would gain a lot of quality.
    
    
    
    From the point of view of the killer, you could keep on doing your chases without minding the gens being rushed straight through, which do excite you even though some killer mains can't accept it or simply they're stressed by genrush (and I don't blame them in that case).
    
  
    
  
  
    I agree with the pallets. While certain maps still have more than enough pallets even after the latest patch, there are some maps that would definitely need a buff to the minimum amount of pallets if gen rush was ever nerfed. 
    
  But the pick up time for killers is fine in my opinion. I mean think about it, it can take quite some time before a good killer player finally downs a survivor if the survivor is good at looping, even now with the recent pallet density nerf, and flash light saves pretty much nullifies all the progress that the killer has made during that chase. So that should be hard to pull of, I wouldn't call people "baby killers" just because they complained about a mechanic like that being unfair. 
    
  Also, when you say that killers should only get a free hook when survivors are bad sounds like you want killers to only get hooks if survivors make mistakes, but that's not how a game should be balanced. If someone is really good with a killer than he should be able to down a good survivor within a fair time without being fully dependent on a survivor making mistakes. Not always of course, survivors also shouldn't be dependent on killers making mistakes in order to survive a chase for more than 30 or 40 seconds, otherwise the game would be too killer sided. I feel like right now they've found a good middle ground regarding chases, you can survive quite some time as a survivor but it feels more balanced now, with killers being a bit more in power than they used to be.
    
  
  
    However, I think with a second objective, camping and tunneling would also have to be nerfed. I just can't see any proper gen rush nerf working without nerfing camping and tunneling, or playing survivor would become way too frustrating.
    

    


    I think I made a mistake while writing: when saying that the killer should only get the really bad survivors, I meant that he shouldn't have the possibility to instantly get them as soon as he finds them, e.g. nurse in general, billy in open fields and things like that. I'm not saying that the survivors shouldn't get caught at a certain point, that'd be a stupid reasoning, I'm saying in general that they should always have a chance to hold a chase rather than instantly dying, that's one of the things that makes you feel worst during the game, when you have a valuable amount of hours in the game it's tough to see yourself dying like that without having a chance to do anything, there's people that take it as is and that won't really care, but I personally get really frustrated by those circumstances.
    


    About flashlight saving, I think that the old animation was fine, the only reason that I'd accept the devs to give is the one about the killer needing more time, but I can't accept that flashlight saving is too strong.
    
I know that it's a struggle for the killer to catch some survivors, and that a flashlight save could be really determinant, but flashlight saving requires one survivor to stay off the gens and to spend most of his time after the killer, and still the killer can look into a wall at any time, or either he can bait you at any time.
    


    Any experienced killer can currently, without any additional effort, counter to the fullest the flashlight saves in those ways.
    
Before the pickup animation change, though, baiting the survivors sometimes required you to chase them and get them far away from the slug in order to prevent the save, which in my opinion was a decent pricing in order to prevent a survivor that has been after you the whole game to flashlight save.
    


    Now the killer can just pretend like he'll chase you and by the time that you take a minimum safety distance and that he picks the slug up facing the opposite way, you'll be already out of range for it.
    
Before that patch, the killer was pretty much required to do something consistent to avoid a flashlight save even when he noticed directly the survivor that wanted to pull it off.
    


    Of course I'm not claiming that it's 100% impossible to get a save with the 3 seconds animation, but you rely on the killer being mindless or bad in order to get to do it, if you use a flashlight on rank one in an attempt to get a save, you won't really ever get to save anyone unless you go up against a boosted killer.
    


    Flashlight saving is currently as reliable as 360s in its current state; it requires skill and practice and still you're never certain whether the killer will fall for it or not, but 360s weren't intended even though the devs are luckily fine with them, whereas timed flashlights blinds have always been a thing and they should give you more chances than the currently do.
    

            
    
            
    
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The survivors buffs are bad for the game


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @twistedmonkey said:
    
  
  
    
    
    @No_Cluie_Louis said:
    
  
    
  
  
    
  
  
    
    
    On the other hand though. These flowers are the reason no one is playing survivor, it's just too difficult to do 5 gens + 5 shorter gens
    
  
    
  
  
    That was my point ;), in adding another objective into this event some of the nerf's over the past few months seem like they could be obsolete and need reverting or reworked.
    
  
  
    A Fog Whisperer did say on stream the event it was a test regarding more objectives being added into the game, they said the  devs want to remove bloodlust from the game and also the healing nerf would no longer be needed, just two examples of changes made which could need to be reworked.
    

    


    That'd really make this game a 5 stars.
    


    More valuable objectives (I say valuable because we don't want dull totems 2.0) but more intense chases and more opportunities to the survivors in the chases. You often get undeservedly hooked nowadays, the killers should really only get a free hook in case the survivor they chase is bad, not in case they just have a chainsaw that charges instantly because of x addons rather than the machine gun build on huntress or rather than because they're playing nurse.
    


    Not only Bloodlust should get removed to be honest, I think that if a new non event-related objective came out and nullified genrush, I'd like to see pallets increased in some maps, not the pallet vacuum which has always been bs, but just the quantity of pallets, it'd also be nice to see the old times 4.3 seconds pick up animation too, currently flashlight saving is viable but the killer will predict it after once that you get it done; I'm fine with Lightborn completely preventing flashlight saves, it's one perk that the killer, the 1 that is vs 4 survivors, is using specifically for that matter, so I would agree on that choice but I don't agree on the really quick timing that you often can't get in time just because some baby killers complained. It also feels like it's easier to get the flashlight saves, back in the days when you waited a longer time it looked much nicer in my opinion.
    


    If all of this was done, beyond bugs, beyond the lack of dedicated servers, beyond camping and tunneling, I'd really think this game would gain a lot of quality.
    


    From the point of view of the killer, you could keep on doing your chases without minding the gens being rushed straight through, which do excite you even though some killer mains can't accept it or simply they're stressed by genrush (and I don't blame them in that case).
    

            
    
            
    
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The survivors buffs are bad for the game


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @Vert3x said:
    
  
  
    
    
    @Orion said:
    
    
    
    
      
    @Vert3x said:
    
      I think that I read from the software info itself that it doesn't really touch the anticheats and neither it probably interferes with the game process itself; I remember that I also read that the blocking feature had been removed, but I also heard a famous streamer, Morf_UK, saying that it's actually still a thing.
    
      It's probably just stuff about your network, but of course actually the blocking feature should have something to do with Steam/DBD.
    
    
    
    
    
    The game has a built-in ping indicator, and you really shouldn't be blocking people anyway, for obvious reasons. Why, exactly, do you need MLGA so bad that you'd be willing to risk a permanent ban?
    
  
    
  
  
    I was saying that the software has that feature, I personally don't use it but, as far as I know, it actually depends on people who you blocked on Steam. At this point I'm getting rid of it. And actually, the build-in ping indicator doesn't show up in game, and it often happens that it would be useful to know in game what is your ping towards the host. And anyways, just like anything else coming from BHVR, the ping indicator that is built in is completely messy and inaccurate, and don't tell me that it never happened to you that it shows a nice 140ms ping (that I personally could kind of accept) and then once you load in you can't move.
    

    


    Since dedicated servers aren't free and BHVR's like you know what, let's spend money on Dead Garden, at least don't make MLGA bannable, measuring the ping towards the host is so easy that a java and lightweight software does the thing really quickly, but apparently DbD devs aren't able to do such a thing neither.
    


    Sorry for being mean, but this game's gone over the top of inconceivability. I do not care if a person plays in a certain way, I won't block them to dodge their lobbies or anything like that, I could block Steam profile comment harassers and do what I personally want with the Steam block feature, if mlga shows me that I blocked the host in the lobby I won't dodge it, I don't mind.
    

            
    
            
    
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MLGA, is it considered a 3rd party software?


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @Orion said:
    
  
  
    
    
    @Vert3x said:
    
    I think that I read from the software info itself that it doesn't really touch the anticheats and neither it probably interferes with the game process itself; I remember that I also read that the blocking feature had been removed, but I also heard a famous streamer, Morf_UK, saying that it's actually still a thing.
    
    It's probably just stuff about your network, but of course actually the blocking feature should have something to do with Steam/DBD.
    
  
    
  
  
    The game has a built-in ping indicator, and you really shouldn't be blocking people anyway, for obvious reasons. Why, exactly, do you need MLGA so bad that you'd be willing to risk a permanent ban?
    

    


    I was saying that the software has that feature, I personally don't use it but, as far as I know, it actually depends on people who you blocked on Steam. At this point I'm getting rid of it. And actually, the build-in ping indicator doesn't show up in game, and it often happens that it would be useful to know in game what is your ping towards the host.
    

            
    
            
    
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MLGA, is it considered a 3rd party software?


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    Wait, could this make Discord anything risky too?
    

            
    
            
    
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MLGA, is it considered a 3rd party software?


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @RSB said:
    
  
  
    
    
    @Vert3x said:
    
    Hi there, I've been recently using MLGA to monitor my ping towards the host along with the ping towards google (my internet is not the best, so I want to immediately know if it's me or the host lagging).
    
  
    
  
  
    Sure, or you can use the ingame ping indicator.
    
  
  
    
    
    The thing with it is, it has a feature about blocking players and giving you the possibility to dodge their lobbies since you would know from the lobby rather than in game. I know that devs have mentioned this software multiple times, but since the banning system is getting changes and they were never really sure on what to do about it, does anybody know if it's still fine to use it on the new version?
    
  
    
  
  
    Not whitelisted - so bannable.
    

    


    Wait is there a way to disable the blocking thing and make sure that it doesn't give me trouble? Like if it still has the blocking feature I'm assuming that it would be detected?> @Orion said:
    


    
  
    Well, it's made by a third party, and it is software. I'd say it qualifies. It's "use at your own risk", meaning that if it triggers EAC, you're perma-banned, and there's nothing the devs can do about it.
    

    


    I think that I read from the software info itself that it doesn't really touch the anticheats and neither it probably interferes with the game process itself; I remember that I also read that the blocking feature had been removed, but I also heard a famous streamer, Morf_UK, saying that it's actually still a thing.
    
It's probably just stuff about your network, but of course actually the blocking feature should have something to do with Steam/DBD.
    

            
    
            
    
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MLGA, is it considered a 3rd party software?


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @Chroma said:
    
  
  
    
    
    @Vert3x said:
    
    
    
    
      
    @Chroma said:
    
      I think DS is just fine as is tbh, it is annoying, but i believe if they change bigger more important elements of the game it won't be as broken.
    
    
    
    
    
    Of course, genrush is currently what discourages the killer from making chases that last longer than 20 seconds (if you want to play safely and to take no bad risks). Still I believe that currently Decisive Strike just gives you a free escape that you really don't deserve for the price of a succeeded skill check (should it even count as a price) and of a perk slot (ok, the obsession is one but people that aren't have even more chances to get the killer unexpectedly which sometimes is worse).
    
  
    
  
  
    i'm not saying its a fair perk man i'm on board its not a well made perk. (for the current state of the game) I just think a bigger change of something else that makes decisive strike not as good without having to touch decisive strike directly and making it a useless perk would be better. changing decisive strike would just be putting a small bandage on a large wound.
    

    


    I understand your point and I agree, but my idea is just following a little better the nerfing schedule that the game designers have been following since 2.0.
    


    I don't understand why they refuse to slow the generators down, that would be a key to a better gameplay, but they just keep on going all the way around that solution, dodging it, taking away some fun for the survivors too (say the change to the pickup animation, that was done on purpose to nerf flashlight saving, and thinking of 
    
the general reason why they said they did it, it seems like they just listened to newbie killers getting "bullied" by deranked survivors).
    


    
  
    @CoolAKn said:
    
  Okay, but not everyone is Rank 1 going against 4 man SWF. I only play solo. I'm not great at juking. I am not the best at trying to pallet loop, but Decisive is my only get-out-of-jail free card that in a lot of cases, I don't even survive to the end, but it increases my chances of survival, which is my goal. As far as your suggestion to have DS remove a hook stage, it would just make the killer tunnel me knowing he only needs to hook me twice. Killers already counter DS by dropping me over and over again. Supposedly it's supposed to fill the meter with each drop, but I have yet to see that. Once the new chapter comes out, everyone will have access to Rancor, which makes DS useless, since the killer will just avoid me until the Exit Gates are powered, where they can just Mori me and I am denied an otherwise useful perk. I already get tunneled running No Mither on David, almost guaranteeing I get hooked every time, making No Mither an absolutely worthless perk. That kind of nerf completely negates the usefulness of DS, because the idea is to NOT get on the hook, but using it is the same as if you were hooked anyway? No, not worth it.
    
  
  
    Especially with Rancor making DS worthless, DS does not need a nerf.
    

    


    Not insulting, not judging you, but you have to commit to improving your skills in chases against the killer.
    
If pallet looping is really not for you, you could give a chance to playing stealth, and maybe you could start winning chases with it as the killer could lose you with a perk such as Urban Evasion, Iron Will, Dance with me.
    


    Otherwise you could try out playing some killer and take advantage of that experience to see how survivors manage to earn safety with those same pallets that seem to be unhelpful to you.
    
It's not really good if you get carried by a perk anyways, you should no matter what never get used to having the same perks over and over. Solo Survivor is playable even without perks on rank 1, and you're not required to play uniquely stealthy (unless it's a Nurse, I'll take that one..), you can keep the killer and do everything right anyways.
    


    Getting back on topic, I understand that when playing solo there is also many people messing up in your team and everything, and that doesn't always help you practicing to improve yourself, so yeah, my nerf idea would be a little brutal I'm assuming.
    

            
    
            
    
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A cool idea about nerfing DS


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @Chroma said:
    
  I think DS is just fine as is tbh, it is annoying, but i believe if they change bigger more important elements of the game it won't be as broken.
    

    


    Of course, genrush is currently what discourages the killer from making chases that last longer than 20 seconds (if you want to play safely and to take no bad risks). Still I believe that currently Decisive Strike just gives you a free escape that you really don't deserve for the price of a succeeded skill check (should it even count as a price) and of a perk slot (ok, the obsession is one but people that aren't have even more chances to get the killer unexpectedly which sometimes is worse).
    

            
    
            
    
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A cool idea about nerfing DS


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @Mycroft said:
    
  
  
    
    
    @Vert3x said:
    
    Hi there,
    
    I would like to share with your guys my idea on how Decisive Strike should be nerfed.
    
    
    
    I'm assuming that, for the next mid chapter patch, the planned nerf for Decisive Strike is already scheduled and will be about the Broken status effect, which is pretty much the No Mither effect: you can't heal after escaping the killer's grasp.
    
    I might be wrong about that actually, because I remember that as a final idea they were talking about applying the nerf where the killer gets stunned on place but the survivor remains on his shoulders and keeps on wiggling, and the other survivors can in case flashlight or pallet save.
    
    
    
    Anyways, for the first designers idea the survivor could legit just run Iron Will, Dead Hard, Resilience and any perk that helps him when injured. Not saying that it would make it as powerful as it currently is, but still it would be inconsistent if the survivor starts playing stealthy.
    
    
    
    For the second designers idea, that would just make it boring for the killer and, mostly, survivors would still abuse of it in swf teams, where they just bring in flashlights and keep each other updated on when they'll use ds in order for others to intervene and have a safe rescue.
    
    
    
    So, my idea is quite simple but really cool in my opinion.
    
    The perk should remain as is, but once you use your Decisive Strike you will be subtracted a hook phase.
    
    This should award the killer of his Hooking bloodpoints (or maybe that should be a different score event in the Sacrifice category with the same amounts of bloodpoints, also for the Entity Summoning) and should also increase his Devout points, so everything should literally be like the survivor was regularly hooked.
    
    
    
    So we come up to this point:
    
    If the survivor uses it before being hooked at all:
    
     - The next time the killer catches and hooks him,  he'll be on the Struggle phase.
    
    If the survivor uses it after his first hook:
    
     - The next time the killer catches and hooks him, he'll be sacrificed.
    
    
    
    So what if the survivor uses it after his second hook? Well, my idea is to allow the killer to Kill the survivor with his hands and to make that count as a sacrifice, but it would be fair too if the survivor was just not prompted to use his perk at all since he might have been too greedy with it (or he just had some bad luck and he was always picked too close to the hooks).
    
    
    
    If this change was done, the survivor would still have his Killer Grasp Escape but that wouldn't be a free second chance.
    
    This, though, would of course rob the killer of his chance to get a hook to bait as many survivors as possible away from their generators, but at the same time that would interestingly speed up the whole sacrifice process for the ds person; of course a BBQ & Chili token can also be earned, but that's not the main topic of course.
    
    
    
    I'm a survivor main but I've long quit using Decisive Strike as I realized how stupid and unfair it is and, personally, rather than a "toxic" perk, I consider it a perk for bad survivors that can't give up on their lame second chance.
    
    
    
    Let me know what you think about this idea, it most likely won't be even noticed by any dbd staff member as I understand that I'm not the only person posting around this forum and having ideas and opinions about things, but in case you really appreciated it, it would be nice if you supported it with Vote Up's and by sharing it to any friend that plays DbD!
    
    
    
    Feel free to also share your ideas about this:
    
     - Would DS remain overpowered?
    
     - Would this make it underpowered?
    
  
    
  
  
    More logical than the way it is now.
    
  
  
    It should be removed altogether.
    

    


    It's a personal perk of Laurie Strode on a first place, so at most it could be replaced and it makes no sense at this point (it's been nearly 2 years since this perk was released). The best thing is to just nerf it to make it balanced. What my idea would make of DS is just what it was supposed to be as an Obsession Perk: a kind of gamble, you risk to have no chance to use it, you risk to use it and to end up with disadvantage, but if you use it correctly and have some luck (which often happens, pallets don't really miss unless you go dying in a corner of the map) you can be given a big benefit.
    

            
    
            
    
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A cool idea about nerfing DS


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @CoolAKn said:
    
  Decisive Strike is fine as it is. Your suggestion would quite frankly, make it completely useless. It the devs want to add a temporary Broken effect, that's fine, but I don't understand why people complain about it. It's a very useful perk, so people should be punished for using it? There are several killer perks that can counter DS.
    
  Enduring - reduces the stun duration.
    
  Iron Grasp - makes the skill check show up a bit later for non-obsessions.
    
  Unnerving Presence - makes the success zone much smaller.
    

    


    If you play killer on rank 1 and you are versing a 4 man SWF squad that is already making it hard for you with a perfect usage of all the pallets and windows combined with a really quick genrush, trust me, Decisive Strike just makes no sense to be still like this and to have no downside.
    


    I don't believe that the change that I thought about is making it useless, it just gets some balancement to it.
    
If a bad survivor uses Decisive Strike, the killer might just get rid of the problem quickly and catch up to them, but what if a good survivor uses it? There is still people that use it even though they know how to pallet loop a good killer, and if they start looping correctly immediately after they use DS the killer will be just robbed of the kill he deserved just because of 1 out of 4 perks of 1 out of 4 survivors.
    


    About the killer perks countering DS, excluding the possibility of Unnerving Presence since it's just a gamble that they miss the skill check and it shouldn't be a case to be consider at all, I'm not gonna lie, Enduring helps you a lot with it, but if you notice that you don't have any pallet or safe window near and you know that the killer has Enduring you still have one chance to save it for the next time, so you won't just waste a Hook phase; it often happens in this game that you should be really mindful about your opponent(s) perks, so it shouldn't be anything new. The obsession perks were always meant to give you good benefits with high risks or prices.
    
About Iron Grasp, that covers the case in which you're carrying a survivor for a long route and you're unsure whether they got Ds or not, but it really doesn't give you much help.
    

            
    
            
    
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A cool idea about nerfing DS


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @Irisora said:
    
  
  
    
    
    @Vert3x said:
    
    
    
    
      
    @Irisora said:
    @Vert3x
    
      
      
    Yes if your ruin is cleansed in the first 30 sec or minute of the game it will be a hard to compete with the gen rush with every killer. What you can try in this situations is downing them all, it hard to do, but it's not imposible.
    
      
      
    When i was saying "don't get frustrated if you not hit him after 3 blinks" i wasn't referring of using a 3 blink addon, it was an example if you missed the hit oportunity after 2 normal blinks and got the hit after the first one. I don't use 3 blinks, the best is to use 2 with range increase and movement addons, that combinations gives them less time to react. It can be hard to use only 2 blink but that should be the goal of every player who wants to master her.
    
    
    
    
    
    To start off playing her (at least in a more serious way), not because of the tutorial that I was linked but for personal choice, I preferred to never use any blink amount changing addons. I tried out an addon combo suggested by a friend of mine which masters the maximum range, and I found them very very good; a third blink would give me a kind of dumb chance that the survivors would also hate. Often when you're a prestiged nurse they believe you have the third blink, but I'm quite sure I'll bring one only in those tryharding games because why not, probably without even using it.
    
    
    
    I also play billy, and I play without no addons. I don't need instachainsaw that makes it too easy for me, at most I could try those fast chainsaw addons that are very cool, but just like for the nurse, I don't like bringing addons as a standard, I do that occasionally.
    
    
    
    Back to the nurse's chases argument, yeah now I got the point. I often have few moments when, either because of framerate or internet lags, or because of a loss of concentration from me, I can't get a blink out of 3, but literally I lunge feeling like I could hit. This specially happened in the cornfields, but I'm quite sure I can see through them quite well and realize where the target is in a very short time, the only problem was just the exact moment in which I was chasing. Probably just training will get these issues away, I already felt much more powerful by simply accepting it when I mess up, maybe laughing about it, rather than feeling like I shouldn't have even prestiged her to 3. In the end I still make my 4ks, also nurse + ruin + noed is more toxic than self care + sprint burst + ds man! That makes me feel like I'll literally win everytime, noed is a plus in case ruin is found and I can't make it to kill them all, even though this is already something very rare.
    
  
    
  
  
    It's a big diference playing the nurse with addons and without. A standard nurse may be good againts low skilled survivors and low ranks but in high ranks you need them. There aren't many combinations that can be done, and most addons suck, but this two The ataxic respiration for range and Anxious gasp for movement in the blink are very good. And the downsides aren't very noticeable.
    
  
  
    And yes, a nurse with noed is worse than DS. But with a killer like her with the potencial of getting 4 kills in the right hands, using that perk is a waste. I prefer to give everything in the course of the game too, and if 1 or 2 survivors manage to escape, They earned it.
    

    


    Yeah I'm still learning so I'll use noed for few more games. About addons, I'm actually catching up survivors easily without them. My killer rank is 7, and I ranked up right with her. Maybe I should try to rank to 1, but I'm not gonna play till August so I'll have to wait for a new season.
    

            
    
            
    
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The Nurse - Any tips or suggestions?


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @Irisora said:
    @Vert3x
    
  
  
    Yes if your ruin is cleansed in the first 30 sec or minute of the game it will be a hard to compete with the gen rush with every killer. What you can try in this situations is downing them all, it hard to do, but it's not imposible.
    
  
  
    When i was saying "don't get frustrated if you not hit him after 3 blinks" i wasn't referring of using a 3 blink addon, it was an example if you missed the hit oportunity after 2 normal blinks and got the hit after the first one. I don't use 3 blinks, the best is to use 2 with range increase and movement addons, that combinations gives them less time to react. It can be hard to use only 2 blink but that should be the goal of every player who wants to master her.
    

    


    To start off playing her (at least in a more serious way), not because of the tutorial that I was linked but for personal choice, I preferred to never use any blink amount changing addons. I tried out an addon combo suggested by a friend of mine which masters the maximum range, and I found them very very good; a third blink would give me a kind of dumb chance that the survivors would also hate. Often when you're a prestiged nurse they believe you have the third blink, but I'm quite sure I'll bring one only in those tryharding games because why not, probably without even using it.
    


    I also play billy, and I play without no addons. I don't need instachainsaw that makes it too easy for me, at most I could try those fast chainsaw addons that are very cool, but just like for the nurse, I don't like bringing addons as a standard, I do that occasionally.
    


    Back to the nurse's chases argument, yeah now I got the point. I often have few moments when, either because of framerate or internet lags, or because of a loss of concentration from me, I can't get a blink out of 3, but literally I lunge feeling like I could hit. This specially happened in the cornfields, but I'm quite sure I can see through them quite well and realize where the target is in a very short time, the only problem was just the exact moment in which I was chasing. Probably just training will get these issues away, I already felt much more powerful by simply accepting it when I mess up, maybe laughing about it, rather than feeling like I shouldn't have even prestiged her to 3. In the end I still make my 4ks, also nurse + ruin + noed is more toxic than self care + sprint burst + ds man! That makes me feel like I'll literally win everytime, noed is a plus in case ruin is found and I can't make it to kill them all, even though this is already something very rare.
    

            
    
            
    
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The Nurse - Any tips or suggestions?


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @popoles said:
    
  I made a guide for her. Although it's meant for console, it only applies for the Tips section. Otherwise you can use it.
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/6013/nurse-guide-for-console-players
    

    


    Quite interesting guide. The first part tends to help beginners, as I can already examine the addons for combos by myself. About the tips, I agreed with them, specially about the concept of adapting to every survivor's playstyle against the nurse. Probably a high gameplay flexibility is what makes he very powerful against survivors.
    


    
  
    @popoles said:
    
  And for your questions:
    
  1) When a survivor manages to get a distance between me and him (although it rarely happens), I always try to predict where he went and follow the scratchmarks (by blinking, always prefer blinks). If I went the wrong way, I'll go looking for another survivor (so your gen strategy isn't bad).
    
  
  
    2) It is never a good thing when your opponents gain distance from you. Always listen to their footsteps and sounds when in the fatigue and try to follow scratchmarks. Of course you can lose them, we are not dogs. If you have a problem with it, try Bloodhound or Shadowborn.
    
  
  
    Be calm at all times.
    
  You missed a hit? Be calm.
    
  Gens are done way too fast? Be calm.
    
  Any distraction can disrupt your precision.
    
  
  
    And don't worry, with enough patience, you will get the hang of locating survivors when in the fatigue.
    

    


    1) Yeah, I actually try to cut his path taking advantage of the fact that he can't see me at that moment and that he will probably not turn back and attempt to take unexpected moves like they usually do when they can clearly see where you're blinking.
    


    2) Well, that's right the point when I'm talking about them gaining distances. Once I get the fatigue stun and they keep on running away (some of them actually run so close to me that I can even keep on seeing them during the whole fatigue time, and I'm wondering what's the point in that since that makes them last only 5 more seconds), and they break LoS. At that point I'm reliant on the scratchmarks, and it's often kind of hard to interpret them while blinking because you don't have a long time to actually understand what they're leading to (they're often buggy too e.g. when turning a corner scratchmarks often won't spawn in the whole corner area like he teleported!). Any suggestions on a better tracking on that point? Shadowborn and Bloodhound (Predator will be in as well after its buff and will probably be the best one in this case) are very useful perk that would help me in that circumstance, but not every good nurse uses them, and still they will know how to move in that circumstance. I know perks are nowadays the core of the game, but when learning a new killer I'd always like to assume that I don't have any perk helping me out with the power (gonna always use bbq par example, I love the bloodpoitns bonus after all xD).
    


    I understood that calm was needed to keep my precision, but the problem is that as soon as I'm not calm everything collapses because I keep on missing attacks and doing bad and enter a loop that even lasts the whole game! That's incredible.
    
About the fatigue, I don't honestly have too many problems. They sometimes make it to confuse me, but it happens more and more rarely, so I guess I'm doing good on that.
    


    
  
    @Irisora said:
    
  Well first of all, try to equip at least 2 anti gen rush perk, (yes even the nurse need them) My build for her is Overcharge + Ruin + Nurse calling + BBQ.
    
  
  
    As for you are describing, it looks like you need more practice. Don't ever float around with her, unless the survivor is at lunge range. Get confidence in your blinks and blink even if you think you will catch them by floating. You lose precious time by not using your power.
    
  
  
    Doing short blinks will give you more exp at doing them too. It shouldn't be often to lose a survivor for a good nurse unless the survivor is a pro player. But there is when Nurse calling, Overcharge and BBQ do their job. They will give you a hint of where the survivor is.
    
  
  
    And don't get frustrated if you not hit him after 3 blinks. Some survivors know very well how to play againts her. Even I who play the nurse since 2016 and mastered her, have a hard time sometimes. When that happen try to focus more in predicting their movement.
    

    


    I know right that even the nurse need them. There was a game that really surprised me for how bad it ended after a very good beginning because I had an early game broken Ruin (I was running overcharge too, even though I was only trying it out, probably gonna get my salt punches in the post-game chat and use both ruin and noed), which frustrated me a lot and as a plus they started rushing like hell. I had hooked a survivor only in the first moments of the game, and did everything perfect with them, no time at all to find him back after fatigue and nothing messed up at all. After I saw how short my ruin lasted, I pretty much couldn't take it and just wronged everything. About the rest, I always short blink, that saves time and I also want to always get my fatigue so that I get as much used to it as possible. About the blinks, I don't even use 3 and I believe I'll never do unless I want to actually tryhard on rank one and have my revenge against the survivors community for the genrushes and everything (fun fact, I'm actually a survivor main but I played mostly killer in these two or three days and wanted to get back into the nurse because I still do love the way people fear her).
    
Also glad that I'm talking to a legacy nurse, I guess you know quite a lot about the matter :)
    


    Thank you all guys for your replies and for your time, I really appreciate that. <3
    
I won't probably close this thread here and keep in as a hints repository.
    

            
    
            
    
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The Nurse - Any tips or suggestions?


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @HeManCan said:
    
  Damaging a generator should apply a 'Bleed' effect that slowly returns the generator to its original state.
    

    


    I know, but it doesn't mean that one tap should be enough to interrupt what you called "bleeding".
    


    
  
    @SaltyKiller said:
    
  They just introduced a new Killer perk Pop Goes the Weasel that instantly regresses a gen by 25%.
    

    


    For sure, but we can't assume that every single killer will run it, and it probably won't be a meta. If you what you want to tell with that is simply that if I want an efficient generator regression I should use that, I can get you, but still the default generator damaging feature feels like it needs a buff.
    

            
    
            
    
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Damaging a generator, an idea for a buff to that feature


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    @PrinceIpos said:
    
  i actually like the idea of a penalty to repair speed until a great skillcheck is hit, but it'll lead to even more skillcheck pros and even faster gens in high ranks because great skill checks would be absolutely needed even without ruin
    

    


    Well, the skill checks tend to be much affected by the input lag, and I believe that this was done on purpose so that even expert survivors have a chance to fail them. Besides that, it's still a must to make the regression not immediately interrupt, right now I can't actually seem to leave my Overcharge, it feels so good that they're punished when attempting to stop the regression!
    


    
  
    @Someissues said:
    
  It would be nice if when the killer kicks it the gen stops by 5%. 2 sec of repairing to stop regression sounds nice
    

    


    Yeah, that'd not even be so much but at least the survivor doesn't do that as soon as the killer leaves, that's just not fair, it feels like a waste of time. There could be better ways to take advantage of your damage on the gen, which could be injuring the survivors and then going back to damage the gen as they loop too much. Unless many people were on that, it will have precious seconds of regression while the survivor is healing up.
    

            
    
            
    
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Damaging a generator, an idea for a buff to that feature


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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    Yeah he always lacked of customization.
    

            
    
            
    
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2.0.0 Downgrades for HillBilly main


                Comment by Vert3x

                


            
    
        
    
    
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