VayneHellslinger
VayneHellslinger
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- VayneHellslinger
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I would be interested in a gamemode where killers and survivors enter the game with no perks, addons, or items. Would really help in getting raw data to judge how good/bad the match is in it's base format.
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I will say that while I did enjoy the game, I don't think what I experienced is worth the proposed price tag. I suppose I'll wait and see how it develops before making a decision.
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@DepravedKiller Just know there are other people who already use cyan, myself included.
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Bout three years ago I was jogging to train for a local marathon and for some reason all the stray dogs in the area decided hunting me down was a fantastic idea. Pretty soon I had 4-6 dogs chasing me down the road till I made it to a high enough fence and hopped through someone's garden. Taught them a lesson the next day by punting one of them in the chest so hard he landed on the opposite side of the street.
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Okay Philosophy time:
The main reason Justice is often discussed and is vital to understand is because it is a fundamental social, ethical and moral principle, one that we are forced to confront on a daily basis. Is Justice proactive or reactive? Is it fair? Is it equality? Should people get what the deserve, or what they need?
One way to view Justice is in distribution of commodity, or basically who gets what. In that lens, there is Equality-based-Justice, where everyone gets the same kinds and equal amounts of commodity. Need-based-Justice, where the more someone requires something, the more they should get of it. And finally, Merit-based-Justice, where commodities are distributed based on one's contribution to society, positive or otherwise.
Another way to view Justice is in the statement Justice is fairness. In this way, inequalities should favour the least well-off of society, so as to level the playing field. An example would be the government taking you taxes and spending them on poor people. The argument made here is that people have the rights to basic needs, such as food, shelter, a doctor should they fall ill, etc. In this connotation, rights can be either negative or positive.
A negative right states that I, as a person better off in life, shouldn't prevent people for acquiring their needs, but I also have no moral obligation to help those worse off than me.
A positive right demand that if someone finds himself unable to acquire his needs, he is entitled to get help to do so. Here a right becomes an obligation. You, as a moral, self-aware creature, have a duty to help others regardless of your personal stake in the matter.Obviously, Justice is just about stuff. It's also about doling punishments to wrongdoers. People generally have varying opinions on how punishments ought to be handled, which I will list and you can look up for a deeper understanding.
1. Retributive Justice: Wrongdoers should suffer in proportion to how much they made others suffer. In other words, the classic biblical notion of 'an eye, for an eye'.
2. Welfare maximisation: Needless punishment does no good. Instead ideas such as rehabilitation or deterrence are more preferred.
3. Restorative Justice: Wrongdoers must make amends for the actions they have done. This is the basis for the idea of social service.In summary, Justice is important because it shapes how our social world works. And as American political philosopher Micheal Sandel said ''Justice is inescapably judgemental. Questions of justice are bound up with competing notions of honor and virtue, pride and recognition. Justice is not only about the right way to distribute things. It is about the right way to value things.''
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Part because of a friends recommendation way back when the Nurse came out and part because brickster (or Bricky) was playing the game on streams and making youtube videos about it, which enticed me to buy the game an try it out.
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Three situations mostly:
-I have a strong suspicion someone is in the area--usually its breathing, movement out of the corner of my eye, or previous trends in the match. In which case I soft/hard patrol to filter them out.
-End of the match and the gates are open. Nothing left to do at that point so camping gives the most tactical advantage in these circumstances.
-This is the rarest, but punishing extreme overconfidence. It's just satisfying to see someone trip over their pride, especially on the off-chance I down a speed hacker. That hits all the good buttons. -
@PolarBear Unless it's a nerf to the stopwatch nerfing the addons won't change much. Anything aside from blink speed, fatigue time and accuracy; anything else interferes with the Nurse player's muscle memory, so it's generally advised to go without any addons or a selective few.
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Ah the old machine gun build. I remember grabbing Myers, reaching tier III evil within, and landing 2-3, sometimes 4 downs back to back. Good times, good times. Probably won't be implemented since it if they revert a change to a perk, people will clamour at them to change other things too.
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@DarkGGhost Now the second idea is more interesting. Essentially you want the fifth slot to have a passive effect. This idea is much more controlled and allows for easier integration and rebalance. Keep in mind that whatever the passive is it has to be a QoL (Quality of Life) change. Stuff like speed up animations for hitting a gen or pallet, or slightly shorter flashlight duration. Nothing too general like speed boost while walking or longer lunge range
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Hard to balance, especially as more stuff gets added to the game. As more killers and new perks get added the more beneficial having that extra perk slot become, especially if killers get a great 5 perk combo going. Not to mention there is a 100% chance survivors will take that without a tidal wave of self-righteous anger and honestly, it wouldn't be too misplaced.
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This feels largely unnecessary, and I honestly doubt it would fly under the radar. My reason for arguing against it is that it doesn't matter how long the fatigue time is if you down the survivor beforehand. Chases would boil down to doing 2-3 blinks till the survivor is injured, then chaining 10+ blinks back to back if necessary to down him. As a survivor, you simply can't juke for that long and as the Nurse that's way too much control. Then after 5-10 seconds you can theoretically do it all over again. I just can't see either side particularly enjoying this proposed rework.
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Man I still feel William was one of the best villains ever put in a cartoon...hey we should all get together and rewatch the show. Open a discord group or something
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It's sort of an inside joke how one of the strongest killers in the game has the worst add-ons ever. Baring anything else, they interfere with your trained muscle memory, which you've spent all this time preparing to respond to certain conditions. The only addons most Nurse players who know what they are doing are: the brown; particulary the molar and the spoon. The stopwatch. The pinecone book-mark/cincture combo. The Fragile Wheeze, and Campbell's Last breath. The rest can go straight to the trash.
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@Aari_Piggy66 I think a lot of the Pig's problems stem from the general community consensus that some smaller variation of Rule set no. 2 should be a default on her. The point of traps is to waste time first, kill second, but having all the boxes visible kinda makes the traps meh in the early to mid-game. (On a side-note if Third Seal did work on the boxes how much stronger would Amanda be?)
There are other abstract ways to make the traps more engaging. I remember a friend told me his idea of having an area randomly around the map that if the survivor walked over would instantly start the timer. Another way is to have the trap start ticking as soon as the survivor either starts searching a box, or finishes a box and it's a dud. Basically it boils down to have ways to start the timer outside the survivor's control, or have the action of removing the trap have a paywall.
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I quite like the Pig, but I've always been of the opinion her traps should always be saved for the late game. Place first trap when two gens are repaired. Second when 4 gens are repaired, and the rest once all gens are finished and the gates go down. Timers start instantly and now you just have to rotate around the boxes you think have the key in them. I would like to see more focus put into the ambush. More addons for the ability, some tweaking for the sound effects. I honestly enjoy the ambush more than the traps and would be happy to see it get more love and attention.
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Instead of arguing percentages from the get-go, let's talk about the core idea first.
Generally speaking when a killer is confronted with a pallet they have 2 options, sometimes 3. They can respect the pallet and try to bait out a drop without getting stunned. They can be hyper aggressive and go for a swing regardless of whether or not the pallet is there. Or occasionally they can walk around the pallet. The perk is clearly meant to reward option 2, and that's interesting, because I find that being aggressive is usually the best call in a given moment; reason being that it causes pallets to be dropped the fastest and thus the pallet economy (the % amount of pallets remaining at a given time) drops most efficiently.
Couple problems, or at the very least things that need to be clarified. Is the perk stackable with other movement increasing perks? At the moment there are only 3 perks (NOED, Agitation, and PWYF) that directly increase move speed, but this is more for future proofing design. Another is that the perk doesn't have that big of a downside. If you're playstyle leads to yo breaking or getting stunned by pallets, chances are you don't benefit from bloodlust to begin with, so in the playstyle the perk incentivises, the downside needs to be far greater. Final thing is when Enraged is on cool down, does that mean bloodlust is back on or not during the duration of it charging back up?
Now a quick Math section. For the sake of reference we will be using survivor's running speed of 4.0 m/s as a base.
Bloodlust: Bloodlust increases its' tier for every 15 seconds in the chase by +0.2, +0.6, +1.2 m/s for each tier. In percentages it translates to 5%, 15%, 30%. Tier 3 can safely be ignored as the conditions required to reach it are too ideal, and if the killer reaches tier 3, the survivor is probably dead no matter what at that point. By comparison Enraged offers 10%, 10%, 15%, which translates to +0.4, +0.4, +0.6 m/s.In summary, the perk trades the higher speeds of bloodlust for less speed but greater consistency. An interesting idea but numbers need more tweaking and a stronger drawback
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Little did Claudette know, but the Trapper had swapped his Brutal Strength with Blood Warden when no one was looking...
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Before escaping, Jake trips over the remains of the hook as it fell apart...
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Kobe off the hook: When you try to pull yourself off the hook and are successful
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Hmm this feels very niche. Situations I can think of where this makes a tangible difference is in the case of an insta-heal medkit like you mentioned, you pop adrenaline at the perfect time, or borrowed time is on. I'm not too sure about that last interaction, but the first two feel like the only times this will be effective. While normally I'd support this on principal of survivor/killer counterplay and how that creates interesting gameplay, I don't trust the devs enough for them to unintentionally change something in the code that breaks it either in favour of killer or survivors.
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Prolly leave you in the storage then pull you out whenever we want to make a point. Or to use the seductive powers of green text to hypnotize the non-believers.
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Okay Addressing all points in order:
- Nice change to the ambush attack, though having the trigger like that leaves much room for it to bug out or be exploited.
- The permanent variant to Rule set No. 2 is really good, but make the box range indefinite if they have the trap ticking down. Would be a little too much BS if they 2:30 minutes to run around finding the boxes while the timer ticks down, especially on maps like Pale Rose. Having an additional bear trap is eh, doesn't change much so no complaints there.
- The addons are too strong. Just as a quick example, Amanda's letter plus the Tampered lock means that you've basically guaranteed the death of one survivor, maybe two. Have the percentages either lower and more spread out among the boxes or make the search process itself take longer.
- No comment on the cosmetics, but its unlikely to come out since licensed killer. I will say having something too flashy will ruin the ambush part of the pig somewhat, so that should be kept in mind
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Let's be honest here, 80% of people who use this perk use it because its fcking called "Bamboozle".
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I assume you are targeting the notion of survivors holding the game hostage when they are the last person alive. Noble goal but...it doesn't feel good to play for either side here. An important part of balancing a mechanic is how it feels to the player and having it abruptly end is probably going to be dissatisfying for both sides.
Something I've thought of for this sort of end-game scenario is that as soon as a generator is finished the hatch automatically reopens. It isn't too far of a stretch to assume at this point both players know where the hatch is, so end game turns into this mad dash for the hatch where both sides are hoping to reach their first. -
Well first we need to survey all possible interactions that could happen here. One main problem here is how much stronger camping becomes. Now when you hook a survivor you could theoretically stand next to them and when a survivor tries to go for a save you chain two attacks into them and unless they have dead hard they are most likely down.
Another interactions is with one-shot perk/addons like NOED and Myers tier III, which really get buffed from this change as you can now theoretically down two survivors at the same time.
We have to also consider interactions with killers like the clown or the doctor, people who can disable survivor movement enough to get off a cheeky double hit mid-chase. I have no idea how this will work in practice but its still something worth considering.
In short, the idea has potential but is too open to be abused through killer-specific interactions. A nice limitation I can think of off the top of my head is only being able to chain hits when carrying a survivor. In doing this you have a stronger incentive to not bodyblock a killer while he's walking to a hook, but it still leaves room for counterplay to be made. -
Okay random cutaway but since we are talking about ding ding sizes, would you rather have a 20' noodle or a 1' plate?
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@weirdkid5 His weapon is always Dead Hard. In fact you might say it lives forever, no mither what.
....God I stretched it thin this time around.
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No-Pants David is too op. No killer is mentally ready for the glory that is David King on full display
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@Taconter Almost like mine. Though now that I'm looking at them side by side mine's a bit lighter
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Cats. Dogs like biting my feet when I'm jogging, so I don't have much love for them.
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@HIPSTERLION Almost had it. Just remove the parenthesis around the hexadecimal code and the font command at the end. This surprisingly doesn't work like python scripts
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@SadonicShadow Ok honest review time:
First things first, Stridor. Should this become a thing I foresee an immediate rise in Stridor among the mid to high tier perks. It mitigates the perks' new intent to some degree even if blood stains are still gone.Maps like Institute and Gideon also get a shadow buff for survivors as a result. That many paths with walls separating each section makes it more likely a killer is to lose survivors at a higher rate than before, as tracking blood stains is especially effective on them.
Toolboxes get somewhat of a shadow nerf simply due to less utility or more accurately, the medkit becomes a more viable alternative. Item choice theoretically boils down to flashlight vs medkit as well. On one hand, less flashlights, which I can appreciate as a killer main. On the other, instant heal medkits become more dangerous, since even the brown medkit can now get you up a health state before needing to use the syringe or agent.
Botany + SC combo feels too niche of a combo to be viable. Not likely for a lot of players to invest 2 perks into healing. Same as streetwise + SC.
If I have one thing I would like to change, its that grunts an blood stains incrementally decrease in accordance to how you have healed. If you are at 70% from fully healed, 70% reduced grunts of pain and blood stains. 20% heal complete, 20% reduced grunts, and so on.
That's all my thoughts on your idea. Opinion?
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@SadonicShadow Ok different line of questioning then based on the new information:
1) I'm assuming now that you can in fact go back to the healthy state. New question is how much of the perk is like Iron Will? SC into Iron Will is a good combo and this seems to cut the middle man and combine them into one.
2) This is more about the blood dropping since grunts are tackled in Q1, but does it slow the blood dropping or does stop it entirely? If it slows then what percentage were you thinking of?
I don't think there are any other clarity problems that I can think of atm. -
@SadonicShadow Hmm concept needs more polish I think before being seriously considered. Just some things I would like clarified before properly critiquing the idea:
1) At what point can you take advantage of the self-heal? If you can't go back to healthy but you heal yourself while downed, at what point in the game does the perk become viable?
2) If you able to self-heal while downed, why would you ever run the original No Mither?. It seems like an objectively better version of it and if healing does work while down the way I think it does it also arguably works a little like a multi-use unbreakable.I feel like your perk idea was lost on me, so a little further explanation would be nice
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I think the best to balance out SC is to make it regressively worse over time. It starts standard, but lets say every time someone uses up the equivalent of a full heal bar (doesn't have to be all at once. If someone does healing up to 50% using SC the first time they get hit then someone else heals them, then next time they get hit heal up to 50%, that's the equivalent of a full heal meter), then the perk loses X% on healing speed. So if X was 10, perk would start healing at 50% speed, then go down to 40%, 30% and so on.
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Good enough for me!
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Well that just won't do. Lets try this
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Ayy I finally have an identity. Thanks for posting the hexadecimal code table btw
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I think I did this right
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It's quite natural for people to have a pre-established bias about things. I think we can all agree that things matter that much more and have that more weight when they pertain to us and/or our beliefs. The solution to minimize personal bias in a debate I find is to say things from a perspective of a benevolent stranger. That way you come in with an intent to help while somewhat detaching yourself emotionally to the topic.
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@Nickenzie Here is some Math that the potential change will theoratically make. Lets take a scenario where all 4 survivors run this perk. When one dies the other three get a boost in repair equating to a total of 30% repair speed. We can be generous and assume at a given time, 2 survivors are working on a generator, so 20% on average is saved on gen time. Gens take 80 seconds to complete as a base, great skillchecks non-withstanding. Assuming a survivor is likely to hit a great skillcheck on average 3-4 times while fully repairing a gen, each one adding 1.6 seconds per survivor, so between both survivors a total saved time of 9.6 second there. Chases will take average 30-40 seconds to reach completion, regardless of the end result. That nets a total survivor advantage under these conditions of 36% for two gens while under the effects of the perk. This, of course, ignores the notion that both survivors aren't working on the same gen.
Math Non-withstanding, the core of the perk becomes lost. The idea that you are the last survivor is the high risk, and a proportional high reward should accompany it. Getting to this point should give you a crazy advantage, like 250% gen repair speed, or something to that effect.
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@ThePeeje I don't think killers would in uproar if this change happened. Survivors get a way to indirectly communicate their needs to each other while the killer still sees their loadout(only the items they are carrying) and can plan accordingly. It would increase the viability of some perks such as Adrenaline, unbreakable and tenacity if the players had an idea other players had them to begin with.
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@onark This is a really interesting topic. The interaction between Self-Care and Nurse's Calling is very interesting in my opinion. Lots of counter play options for both sides of the table here, and when we discussed Self-Care during discord, we agreed that nerfing to the ground was not a good option. We instead wanted to create a risk-vs-reward sort of setup to it, so a player has to think really hard on the pros and cons to it. Eventually we settled on the following change
Self-Care: Percentage of healing starts at 50% (so the current percentage). Everytime a survivor uses the perk to heal the equivalent of an entire bar, that percentage goes down by 10%(or any better % that is found after testing). The efficiency to medkits remains unchanged
We have three goals with this change:
1) Taking hits and body blocking becomes a calculated risk and sometimes simply not a viable option for a survivor to make. It becomes an actual choice he makes with tangible consequences yo it.
2)If used too much, the perk becomes near worthless, as the survivor goes back to relying on other survivors and medkits to heal the hits they damage while being down a perk. In essence, previous mistakes they made add up in the long term while still keeping it viable in the early phases.
3)Self-Care is (hopefully) no longer a fill for every build set. We hope that a presence of a risk causes people to reconsider it in accordance to their playstyle as opposed to the jack-of-all-trades nature the perk finds itself inI hope this explanation finds itself satisfactory
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@Kiores Hello I'm one of the co-writers of the list. When we first started writing our list we came to an early consensus that every perk should have some form of viability to it, enough that it justified using a perk slot. As such most perks that we agreed needed to be buffed had to done so utility wise. Just a quick rundown for our thought process for the first couple perks you mentioned.
Detective's hunch: We really liked the idea behind it but disliked how a map was required for full utilisation. Agreed upon idea that some objects, we thought totems, within the radius should remain permanently marked, even after the normal perk duration was over.
Streetwise: Another really well balanced perk. We just wanted a slight range increase from 8 to something along the lines of 12-15m.
Calm Spirit: We had a lot of fun with this one. We had a bunch of ideas to make using it feel more rewarding. Eventually we settled on any crows the killer scared off were notified to you via visual cue after which the ability would go on CD).
Left Behind: Due to the random nature of whether or not you ended up as the last survivor, we wanted a bigger reward for it. If you wished to fight as the last man standing, we really wanted to make the killer go into a frenzy when you had this perk, so we thought to make the increased repair speed % a ludicrous amount.
I could go on explaining our thought process, and if there is any specific perk where you would like to see how we examined, I would be happy to elaborate, but for now I think this is enough.