VLight
VLight
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995603#Comment_2995603
“The person on hook can’t play”
This is a very common misconception about DBD, loss of license or inability to participate is a core part of survivor gameplay.
It’s one of the threats you face.
You are still playing while hanging in hook. It’s not particularly interactive but it’s still in game.
If you struggle to outplay a camping bubba then play some camping bubba and you’ll see what works and what doesn’t against it.
I’ve never understood people who hate non participation and elimination signing up for a non participation and elimination game.
Such a terrible argument.
Yes, the basis of the Survivor role will sometimes leave you with the inability to play the game. That alone isn't the issue. The issue is that it takes no effort on the Killer's end to make that happen, it has no room for interactive counter-play. I have no idea what kind of Bubbas you go against, or how you play Bubba, but face camping isn't some big brained strategy that can be outplayed. It's literally standing still in front of the hook. It's nearly impossible to ever mess it up if you know what you're doing. If you're gonna make the argument that it's possible to get that one person off the hook, then sure, maybe it can happen, granted that you're in a 4 man SWF, and the Bubba isn't amazing. But, the fact is that the Bubba will never leave without someone on the hook or have people slugged. If you're somehow able to bait him into downing another Survivor, giving you time to save, he can still hook the Survivor he just downed, and it's just a rinse and repeat after that, where it eventually ends up with a Survivor dead anyway. It takes no effort, and there's no gameplay involved.
You can't just dumb down the argument to "it's a part of Survivor, deal with it," because it's a flaw in game design. It's not an easy issue to fix, and honestly, they Devs shouldn't even be putting priority on this since it really isn't that big a deal, but I didn't know anyone in their right mind would continue to defend it.
I can assure you, any time I ever face camped with Bubba, I confirmed the kill on the hook, or I walked away with even more kills. It isn't hard to stand still. Again, I'm not saying that this strat is necessarily OP, since Survivors can just do gens, but the fact that the entire team has to finish the game with a salty Killer who won't do anything other than stand still, and the person on the hook just has to hang there, it creates a really boring game without any interactivity from both sides.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2992099#Comment_2992099
What people seem to forget is they already removed facecamping.
It’s no longer possible to block the hook and prevent people from unhooking, that was true face camping.
You gotta learn to play around the saw. It’s hard but not impossible.
Half the time I get accused of camping because I turn my back and some survivor is rushing in for the unhook after I’ve only taken 2 steps away.
I remember a time when survivors would wait and/or hook exchange and not make stupidly bold plays that get themselves killed but those days are over it seems.
If bubba is camping smash out gens and then go for a hook exchange.
Unless you're going against a complete baby Bubba who manages to mess up the most simplest things, you won't "play around the saw." The way Bubba's power works allows him to down anybody who tries to trade hooks and he will completely confirm the kill. Yes, you can just do gens while the Bubba is camping, and while I do get that players who hover around the hooks will probably complain that face camping Bubba is OP since they all end up dying for not just rushing the gens, it still isn't fun for the Survivor on the hook, or even the Survivors in the game.
To me, this whole argument was never about losing or winning. It's the fact that the person on the hook literally can't play the game anymore all because the Bubba's face camping, and there's basically nothing the Survivors can do to get that person off. Also, it isn't fun for anyone else in the game since they have no choice but to hold M1 the entire game and they get absolutely no Killer/Survivor interaction.
There's no way that any competent Bubba will allow a hook trade in most cases. Now sure, there are some cases where the Bubba can slightly mess up and won't be able to rev his chainsaw fast enough to stop the save, but assuming that the hooked Survivor doesn't have DS, the Bubba can just hook the Survivor again since he'll eat through BT, or he'll just have the other Survivor to hook and it restarts all over again.
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Wait, are you telling me that you don't like when a Survivor gets an additional health state just by pressing E? How dare you! /s
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MMR bad
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I ain't reading all that
I'm happy for you tho
Or sorry that happened
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@ShadowNurseZFX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2679599#Comment_2679599
i don't have fun, i don't know how to, I'm such a competitive person as well
That's the issue. You're trying to play a non-competitive, terribly balanced game, as a competitive one. Obviously, I can't just say "don't be competitive" and there's nothing wrong with being a competitive person, but maybe over time, just try to look at the game with a brighter mindset and just try to have fun. Test out Killers you haven't played or aren't good with, run niche perk builds, try out different playstyles, or try playing Survivor for a bit if you haven't been. But, if that sounds like too much work, then just try taking a break. Quitting is one thing, taking a break is another. Do what's best for you.
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Why do people always say that "SWF sweat squads will destroy her". Obviously they will, this isn't anything new. Even Nurse has a hard time winning against sweat squads.
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@APoipleTurtle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2143186#Comment_2143186
Maybe the totem counter could get that information across through an alternate visual besides giant numbers? That might reduce the weirdness.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IUKPCULOJ30U/screen-shot-2021-04-26-at-6-10-17-pm.png
(It's a really rough example that I threw together in like two minutes with Word, but it should convey the idea).
Whatever they do with a totem indicator though (if they ever add one in this way), I just hope they have it change to an icon of a broken totem once no bones are left standing.
Oh yeah that design would be way more unique than a number. But yeah, I do hope if they add a totem counter, it has a bit more design than just a number since the generator count already has that
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@APoipleTurtle said:
Honestly, I'd digging the mock-up.
If I was going to change anything, I'd probably just swap where the totem counter and challenge tracker are located on your example. That would put totems next to gens as a "secondary objective", while the tracker's box would block less important screen-space (while open) if pushed towards the bottom edge of the HUD.
Thanks for the advice, I tried having the totem counter next to the gen count but it looked kinda weird to me since there were two big numbers right next to each other. I guess i wanted a bit of contrast but I'll try messing around with it a bit more!
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@notlonely said:
This is so nice! I'm not happy to know that they take these kinds of features that should be basekit and make them into perks (Small Game rework). The archives thing would be so goddamn helpful.
Thank you! I'm really hoping they add something like this to the game to reduce the 8000 hour long archives grind and so that we can remember what challenge we equipped since I always forget lol. I also wasn't too happy with the totem counter being tied to a perk either but let's just hope that they someday add it
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I would play Survivor more if it was more interactive and if solo queue had more communication potential. I want to see more in-depth and fun objectives for Survivors rather than just holding M1.
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OMG the lore!!!! OH no!!!!!!!!!! The game is ruined because the LORE!!!!!!!!!!!! OH NO
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It seems like "haha I go fast" and ranged Killers have been pretty common. Would've been nice to see something different, but as long as the Killer is fun, I don't mind. Trickster seems pretty fun based on what I saw on streams.
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In my opinion, he's not actually as strong as people say. It's very easy to dodge his punishment attack and in some scenarios, you can still dodge the attack after being locked into an animation, since it takes so long for him to put his knife into the ground and then release it. But, that could be me just playing him wrong and not timing it correctly. He's definitely a good Killer, like low B to high C, but I think even Doctor out-preforms him. PH also has no map pressure.
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@HazeHound said:
No! Locker grab and kicking are more than enough thins to do while cloaked.
What Wraith needs is higher movement speed while cloaked without using windstorm. (If you are not using any clapper + windstorm on Wraith now, you have no idea what you are doing)
Yeah agreed, I made a post talking about how the new Wraith buff in PTB wasn't even the buff that he needed the most, which was increased movement speed when cloaked. I made this post only because the idea came across in my head and I wanted to see what people thought.
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@Purgatorian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1876940#Comment_1876940
I know you did, I was agreeing with you :p
Ah gotcha
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@White_Owl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1874834#Comment_1874834
You have overlooked the other half of my comment where I said it wouldn't have any effect to all non-newbies. Having mechanics that works only on people who don't know them does no good to anyone.
I mean, it could have an effect on more experienced players. They might out position themselves while trying to avoid getting grabbed. I don't know, thats why I have this open for discussion.
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@Purgatorian said:
I would like that but only from pallets and windows, not gens, totems or unhooking. He can already pull people out of lockers whilst cloaked so why not other counter measures? Everything else should stay the same such as not being able to attack whilst cloaked.
Yeah, I specified in my post that it should only work with pallets and windows.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1873947#Comment_1873947
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1873990#Comment_1873990
You two really just jump on one word and think that sums up the point and then go from there. I already said to the other dippo that the potential to be oppressive would be incredibly insane, due to the non-requirement of a loadout slot (or two). Combined with perks it would become a very stale opponent very quickly.
And as for you, @VLight
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1872941#Comment_1872941
The moment you start over comminting to the 4v1 aspect in balancing, is the moment you make a killer ridiculous at some other mechanic. I don't wanna be in a world where pallets are forced to be used just because no other form of counter gameplay exists. I don't wanna loop one pallet/tile until it's spanked, I want to interact and actually have potential to legitimately outplay the killer, and vice-versa. Once Wraith gets the speed increase at base-kit, that's when the pallet resource gets boring and the outplays and, so too, punishments for killer mistakes get reduced. It is hand-holding at it's finest and that is a dbd a lot of players would leave due to. The other arguments I haven't read and have no intention to since you clearly just look at the key words on my comments lol
The moment you choose not to reply to the rest of my arguments, while making assumptions about them, even though you are in no position to make assumptions since you haven't even read them, is when you admit defeat. I don't know why people do this all the time.
Breaking news for you, giving Wraith Windstorm speed base kit isn't "over-commiting" to 1v4 balance at all. Again, even with this speed up, Wraith STILL isn't a fantastic Killer. He doesn't make loops unsafe, and he also performs poorly against good Survivors. It seems like you completely glossed over everything I said, even the stuff you did read, and continued to not actually debate my points, but just repeat yourself.
Actually respond to my points about 1v4 balance, as well as the difference between anti-looping and catch-up, which both shorten chases but in completely different manners. I am not gonna be a broken record while talking to a brick wall. If you don't want to, then don't respond since you don't have to.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1874849#Comment_1874849
You were too fast for me! See my edit.
Oops, sorry! But I kinda see what you mean by it being inconsistent. But, it's already inconsistent that Wraith can grab people out of lockers and while he does, he automatically uncloaks. It could be a bit confusing for Wraith players
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@[Deleted User] said:
No. Imagine the hook campers that would stand right next to the hook while cloaked, wait for someone to start the hook animation, and then get a free grab. Wraith's 100% invisible while not moving so the only counter would be running all around the area near the hook to try to bump into a potential invisible Wraith. That just seems dumb lol.
He could do the same for gens and exit gates too, but hooks are most egregious since someone needs to come for the save.
I specified in my post that this should only work with pallets and windows. The other things would be stupid, I agree.
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@selflessnea said:
I would rather not. It probably wouldn't change much if it was implemented but I'm guessing this would also apply for gens being worked on. That would be pretty powerful. But with grabs being as whack as they are I still don't think it would change much.
No, that's why I specified only pallets and windows. He shouldn't be able to grab Survivors when cloaked off of gens, hooks, totems, etc.
And also, true, grabs are very inconsistent.
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@White_Owl said:
I don't think so. It seems the kind of thing that would hurt a lot newer players who don't know the mechanic, but not affect at all the others since they would just avoid vaulting while the killer is cloaked.
Newer players have to learn something, so when they do learn that Wraith can grab them, they will perform better next time. Just because something isn't noob Survivor friendly, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be added. The game shouldn't cater towards new players. The Devs can also include it as a tip in the loading screen if they haven't faced Wraith yet.
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@AnnoyedAtTheGame said:
Yes he should. He should also be able to close the hatch as well.
He can already close the Hatch when cloaked
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1870069#Comment_1870069
You clearly don't know what 'juking' and 'breaking away' means since you've just ignored the point of my entire comment lol
Wraith is a hit and run killer, meaning he shouldn't have any buffs to his chase gameplay. If you juke and break away from a tile and gain loads of distance, the Wraith should not be given a free catch up due to a speed increase at base-kit. If he successfully hits you, it's up to the player to judge if he should commit or rotate, buffing his speed makes this less of a judgement and more of a free choice, due to the fact he'd be able to catch up and reapply pressure to the chase or rotate very swiftly with ease. That is what would be oppressive, since he'd have free movement plus speed. Like I said, look at the big picture, not just what would feel like a great buff in basic theory.
So, essentially what you're saying is that Survivors should have complete control in the chase, and that the Killer should be heavily punished if the Survivor outplays them. That's not how the game should be balanced.
To put this into perspective, consider the fact that the game is a 1v4. The Killer must have enough power to go against 4 different brains, and for that reason, the playing field shouldn't be equal. However, this doesn't mean the Survivor shouldn't have any say in the chase. The ability to outplay one another SHOULD be equal, but the effects should NOT. The reason is because the game is a 1v4. If the outcome of a misplay is equal for both sides, the Survivors would always be the victors in that scenario, since there are four Survivors and only one Killer; the Killer is then outnumbered, while all of them being just as strong.
So now, let's compare to Wraith: Wraith should be able to come back from a misplay and not be heavily punished, since he should be capable of going against four different people. He still gets punished, but just not as much if he has built in speed, since he can make up the lost distance pretty easy. Time as Killer is incredibly valuable; if the Survivor drops a pallet on you and you have to break it, giving them free distance, the ability to not catch up with them in a decent manner is very detrimental to the Killer's viability. The Survivors should NOT get that much power for one misplay on the Killer's part, unless you want a complete bad Killer. This can be compensated with mobility, which is EXACTLY what Wraith needs; giving him mobility gives him much needed match pressure, and instantly boosting his viability, while also giving him an ability to make up that lost distance quicker.
The Survivor STILL gets distance, because their speed isn't decreasing, but instead YOUR speed is being increased. You're basically accelerating the chase, but not in a anti-loop Killer way; you're accelerating the downtime between pallet loops, not at the actual pallet loop, in which you don't have to hold W for like 15-20 seconds just to get to a loop. Also, consider that even when you catch up to a Survivor when they hold W, you still have to down them, and depending on how safe the next pallet is, the chase will take even longer. Holding W is so strong, and good looping is also strong. If you keep the ability to loop a Killer, while also making Survivor's tactic of holding W less strong (because remember, Wraith with speed DOESN'T eliminate holding W, he just makes it less detrimental), the Killer STILL won't be oppressive. If anything, that's MORE fun, since you can continuously loop the Killer and not just have to wait for the Killer to catch up, but I digress.
He also needs the speed for map mobility outside of chase, which is ironic since you talked about me needing to "look at the big picture" when you're clearly not. That's a completely separate argument, so if you're willing to still debate, I'm all for it.
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@JimPickens666 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1859255#Comment_1859255
I hate to break it you megamind but no, T bagging is not mind gaming. Is that really the logic of toxic players? Is that the purpose of screaming the N word into the mic in every FPS? To throw people off their game 😂
I always thought it was to mask insecurities in the real world by being an ######### in a world you can control.
Or maybe, consider the fact that people don't just teabag to ruin your fun or to "mask insecurities in the real world". Kind of contradictory, since I feel the people who get really mad at tea-bagging are those who feel that they are entitled to not feel "bullied" as the "big bad Killer". Which one is insecure then? It's a video game, not real life. Just because someone acts a certain way in a video game, doesn't mean they act like that in real life. Teabaggers aren't evil, they're just messing around in a video game. Obviously, there are exceptions, and the moment it starts escalating to insults and slurs in the end game chat, then that's when toxicity becomes an issue.
"Mom, this Survivor tea-bagged me on Dead by Daylight, he's an evil person that's insecure! I call him toxic even though I'm the one making assumptions about his personal life, as if I am in any position to do so!"
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Ii
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Ii
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1868830#Comment_1868830
So successfully juking a killer and gaining solid distance on them is braindead? The Wraith being able to instantly gain that ground back and then follow up with an massive lunge would be oppressive. You need to look at the big picture with these types of mechanics. Combine that with some of the sweatier perks and playstyles you can do with Wraith and voila, oppresive
I can't believe I'm arguing with someone who thinks Wraith is oppressive. You also have no idea what you're talking about since you think Wraith's long lunge counters loops, or something along those lines. Against Survivors who don't just camp every single pallet like a Rank 15 default Meg, his lunge doesn't help much at all in loops. He doesn't have any anti-loop against any average player, meaning you can still loop him and you can still get to pallets whether he has Windstorm or not. If you can't, then either you brainlessly camped and threw down every pallet, creating a deadzones, or you just got bad map RNG. The cooldown animation of hitting a Survivor, the cloaking animation, and the uncloaking animation all add up. It's like you think Wraith is some sort of omega Nurse with no fatigue cooldown, 8 stacks of STBFL at all times, with a lunge longer than every single loop in the game. You are overestimating Wraith so much.
You'd rather make it where Windstorm is a required add-on for Wraith players, making things boring for both sides since every player runs the same add-ons, or you'd want him to be as slow as a slug, which makes him one of the worst Killers in the game. Sounds like you really don't know what you're talking about.
Moral of the story, get good, and learn how to counter Wraith. He's not oppressive and he's not even remotely strong against really good teams.
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Deathslinger, Trapper, Hag, and Spirit,
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@Onyx_Blue said:
Windstorm speed at base-kit would make him ridiculously oppressive. He's not a chase killer, so giving him a default means to stick to people that succesfully break away is insane. Yeah he sucks in most loops, but giving him speed at base-kit would also increase the speed of his Surprise Attack lunge.
No it wouldn't, what are you talking about? His Windstorm speed acts as much needed map pressure for his kit, and it stops Survivors from brainlessly holding W. Should Survivors just not have any sort of challenge?
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Reworking his add-ons in an option to, take note.
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@Nosferatu3145 said:
Yeah, this "buff" that he's receiving is cool but lame. Survivors still will have plenty of time to see him coming, spine chill will hard counter him, and those snores still will be loud AF. But don't worry, in another 2 years he'll received another minor tweak
Yeah it's sad. He's my favorite Killer, so seeing him not getting one simple change is really disappointing
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@Zeus said:
I would take it slow with wraith to not boost him over the top. Remember that he is a popular new player's killer choice (because he's free) and buffing him too much would make it unfair for newer players.
Oh yeah, I'm not saying to make him absurdly strong or to completely rework him. That would be nice, but I think a simple start would be to just make him faster. Making his baseline speed faster is such a small, simple change, but makes him so much stronger in a good way, not an oppressive way.
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New Autohaven looks beautiful. However, brightness is a bit too low and breakable walls aren't a good edition, in my opinion.
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An interesting idea is to possibly make a key open an Exit Gate a lot faster. It's not instant, but like 3 seconds.
Honestly, I'd still rather have keys relate to the Hatch. But this was an idea I heard somewhere.
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@noctis129 said:
Wraith doesn't need any buffs. He is fine how he is.
Lol.
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All of these Killers have some sort of counterplay. Not fun, but it's still present.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
Or just don't tunnel.
Go for someone else.
Don't open the locker.
Slug.
Patrol gens.
There are many ways to avoid DS.
1. You can't always just avoid "tunneling". DS can 100% activate even when you aren't tunneling.
2. What if I already went for someone else and now the DS user is working on a generator? Do I leave them alone and let them do the gen? Yeah, jUsT sLuG, but why should an anti-tunnel perk activate when I'm not tunneling?
3. So, let them get away for free, even if I'm not tunneling.
4. Unbreakable exists, you know? DS/Unbreakable is a very common combo.
5. Patrol gens, then I find a Survivor. Little do I know, they still have DS up. So, what now?
All of these ways to "avoid" DS don't work against Survivors who abuse it.
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@HEX_MalusGrey said:
Not a fix to SWF but i would like to see this too.
It Is though. With the buff to solo Survivor, Killers can be buffed to combat the new buffed solo Survivor and the current SWF issue. If you don't address solos, buffing Killers for SWF would cause a lot of people to stop playing Survivor or stop playing the game altogether.
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@Animalheadskull said:
I'm having the same issue, I hope we don't have to play the event like this.
Most definitely. I doubt they'll fix this by tomorrow.
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This idea is very interesting and original. I've seen too many people say "gIvE sWf A sPeEd PeNalTy" without giving it any thought, and my response has always been simply why Survivors should be punished for just wanting to play with friends. The way you balance SWF is to buff solo Survivor and then you balance Killers off of similar strength of all Survivors, unlike the huge disadvantage that solo Survivor gives compared to SWF.
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@Funchal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686411#Comment_1686411
Are you sure that this game is friendly with players new enough to dismiss this suggestion?
Do you really think DBD is friendly with casual players?
I truly believe that this game needs to add QoL changes basekit as soon as possible and stop trying to fix it with Perks, you will never make the meta more malleable when the only options to avoid frustration are in those perks
But why should Killers be punished for doing their objective as quickly as possible? By that logic, then Survivors should be punished for doing gens quickly. Tunneling is the Killer equivalent of gen rush; gen rushing is doing the objective quickly, and tunneling is doing the objective quickly. Bad Killers will just brainlessly tunnel and that will lose them the game, meaning good Killers know when to tunnel and when not to, but with the amount of second chance perks, it's difficult. This shouldn't be buffed. And also, a good enough Survivor will always run the Killer around even when being tunneled, which makes the Killer lose. To counter the other team doing the objective as quickly as possible, you bring perks and playstyles to counter it; that's the whole point of perks.
And yes, the game is very casual-player friendly. At causal level play, this game is more balanced than people think. Obviously, at lower level play, Killers are too strong and at higher level play, Survivors are too strong though.
QoL changes are definitely needed, however, your example isn't QoL since it changes the core balance of the game.
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There's already perks to discourage tunneling and a good team will always punish tunneling. We don't need to make this game even more Rank 15 friendly.
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@arcnkd said:
Only thing I can figure is server lag -- but I've also had iffy luck avoiding a blind by looking at the ground and usually have to look either at the sky or turn away from the light left or right to get it to register avoiding the blind.
I never had this problem before which is what's annoying. I might need to start looking up instead of down, but looking down is so much better. Welp, hopefully i don't have this issue again
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Coffee 100%. Coffee is my personality.
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Just remove Killers. EZ fix 4Head
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Two words: git gud.
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Oh no, the Survivors said GG EZ to me or they repeatedly crouched at the exit gates! Garbage human beings like that NEED to be banned because for some reason, I get triggered at BM in a video game.
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So, the game will be balanced if you are completely new to a Killer, meaning you are not playing well, and can still slow down gens enough for you to win all of your games? Doesn't sound balanced to me. No pressure, fast game. Simple.