TragicSolitude
TragicSolitude
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There's not even an acceptable way for a killer to lose. Yesterday the survivors burned a BPS and I let them do gens while I farmed zombies as Nemesis, and two of the survivors (including the one who burned the BPS) saw me killing the zombies and disconnected.
It's not even about balance. The problem is that every player is different, every player wants something different from a match, and the matchmaking system isn't intelligent enough to put people with complementary playstyles together. So no one's happy.
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@MadMoeZel said:
more raids for me <3
Not if players who stop building also stop raiding, which seems to be a pretty common sentiment.
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If builders make fun maps, I'll keep trying no matter how many deaths. I'd rather uninstall than feel forced to do maps I don't enjoy playing on. Going by player numbers, that's a dangerous step to take.
Rank loss is bad and should be removed from the game, it chases players away. This isn't a competitive game and the Rank system here is in name only until it reaches Master; before then, it's a misnamed battlepass.
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Most of my attempted shots at guards miss. I can handle the corrosive cube exploit better than I can handle mobs. If I have no way to counter guards, it's not worth my time attempting the base and I just abandon it. The builder gets at most one death.
If you put guards in a place where they're near the edges, use Hornets. They're ridiculously annoying and I spend 5+ minutes searching the desert for all my lost ammo (not an exaggeration, my replays must be boring as hell to watch). God I hate that ammo can go out into the sandstorm warning area.
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@StonedKnight said:
Title says it all, there should be negative accolades. Sometimes you finish a level and you just feel cheated and don't want to be cucked into praising the level after getting railed by it for 20 deaths. My proposal is there should be negative accolades , like if a level is super hard give it a accolade called "bullshit" rather than "brutal"
you just feel cheated and don't want to be cucked into praising the level
Then don't leave any Accolades. I don't leave Accolades if the builder used the corrosive cube exploit or if they blocked off the Tombs. No one's forcing you to leave praise.
if a level is super hard give it a accolade called "bullshit" rather than "brutal"
Dude, don't be salty, just move on if it's beyond your skill level.
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@hastarkis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3412364#Comment_3412364
Oh, sorry for that, I should've bolded that indeed. And I thought "fixed that for you" would sound kinda rude and aggressive so I deleted that part x)
And, yeah, I understand why they gave us five slots but I don't understand WHY.
Of course, it's for grind, I just can't imagine who and why decided it that way. We were part of the alpha, we didn't have that synth grind at all (at least, I didn't feel that way), I was able to maintain 5 bases and they lived much longer. And I got (and did) MORE raids there than now. Probably, there are good reasons why now it is worse than it was during alpha but I don't see them. I don't know how shorter uptime can be good if lead into low raids and fast builders' burnout.
Prestiges were free, ok, should be fixed to make us grind more, I get it. But they didn't add some price to that, they made it THAT expensive and also they added parts into tombs. Like, everything seemed to be ok and in need of small tweaks, but they just dropped a big ass nuke on synth economy instead of little fixes with a hummer. 🤷♀️ I could pay 200 synth per base and grind 1k synth every other day to maintain 5 bases which can survive 10-20 days and feel both grindy and rewarded. But their solution? Now I don't build at all because I feel it pointless and not profitable. Or build some fast and not super artistic ######### I don't even like just to make it active.
I get they want us grind, but... Well, I guess my question was rhetorical.
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3412635#Comment_3412635
So, every your map generates 20-30 deaths per HOUR? How many raid attempts do you have then?
My 40 deaths in outpost (from different people, no drop nerfs) became 65-70 synth average (with boosts). How in univers can your 20-30 give you 150...
From the years I've been playing DbD, what I've seen is that BHVR does a lot of things that might sound good in theory but ignore the reality of player psychology. For some reason they are really bad at understanding human psychology. To BHVR, the grind trumps fun, and the drive to compete trumps burnout. So what they've done here doesn't surprise me at all. Rather than encouraging raiding by making it more fun and rewarding, they instead punished builders by increasing the Synthite grind (and also by treating builders like an assembly line to just keep pumping out new content for their game). This is what BHVR does, they go negative instead of positive, they favor frustrating gameplay over rewarding gameplay.
I hope BHVR fixes this, I really do. I like MYM, but there are numerous mechanics in the game that work against the players and will actually discourage playing. The grind is one of them.
I thought "fixed that for you" would sound kinda rude and aggressive so I deleted that part x)
Ah, okay, I can see that. I've seen that phrase used so often it's like punctuation to me lol
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@Darkyan said:
Wait doesn't the game pick up every dropped currency and give it to you when you return to the lobby?
I know building modes does it, so i just stopped caring about both drops and my currency is just kinda rising on its own.
Honest question, I'm totally not paying attention to drops anymore
I tested that once, and it did not seem to auto-collect the materials when raiding. At least, it displayed me as having collected nothing on the end screen.
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3412148#Comment_3412148
I don't think anyone here has an issue with doing some raiding. The question is how much do they expect us to play on a daily basis? I personally feel like it shouldn't take more than 2 hours of playing to keep your bases operational. Like we have lives to live and stuff. You can't expect to keep players if you don't make it reasonable. The easiest way to do this is drastically increase the daily bonus for synth.
I'm not arguing with that. I was specifically answering the question "If we aren't supposed to have enough resources for that many bases (bc we have raid issues) then why do we have 5 slots in the first place?" BHVR wants players to attempt to keep more bases than they can reasonably handle activated so that they grind grind grind grind grind as Raider. They seem to be very afraid that players will not raid more than is required of them.
BHVR has this mistaken belief that the grind is what keeps players playing. They put more focus on that than on fun. They do not seem to understand burnout. They don't realize DbD survives in spite of the grind, not because of it.
I too hate the Synthite grind and I made a thread complaining about how solid cubes keep eating my Synthite drops so I get even less than I should be. I hope BHVR adjusts the game's economy.
@hastarkis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3412148#Comment_3412148
Unless you want to make the game a full-time job, you're really not meant to keep two bases activated at all times.
That's how I feel it. And that's the problem I'm talking about.
See above: "BHVR has this mistaken belief that the grind is what keeps players playing. They put more focus on that than on fun. They do not seem to understand burnout." And in MYM's case, BHVR seems to be very afraid that players will not raid any more than is required of them.
I do hope they fix the economy. The Synthite grind is awful. I hate walking away from a raid with 90+ parts and 5 (or less) Synthite. It happens way too often.
Also, if you're going to alter my quote (which is fine), you should have bolded the changed part and said after "fixed that for you." I thought I'd messed up in my reply to you.
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@Seraphor said:
I've seen a couple of these crop up since someone made a youtube video about it.
It's just a whole load of exploding impalers, you hit one and they all go off like a chain of dominoes. This is followed by a suicide booth to give the builder a kill for their troubles.
I'm here to tell you they don't work.
You get the 20 exp from the first impaler you hit, and that's it. No more exp, no currency drops, nothing.
Yeah, it's fun to watch, but that's all, it's totally useless otherwise.
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3412094#Comment_3412094
And that removes everything from the map?
Everything except the permanent bedrock.
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@hastarkis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3412059#Comment_3412059
Kill ratio won't work because after that amount of deaths you get only 1 point of resources from them. So your key to get resources is to get tons of raiders because you get WAY more resources from 30 raiders who died twice than from one raider who died 60 times.
But.
But my super popular base with 1000+ visits total and 2.0 kill ratio wasn't able to pay for itself :) one cycle contained around 100 visits with around 200 deaths. One cycle. No drop nerfs since nobody died more than 5 times per attempt. It wasn't enough, you know. I got 500 synth, maybe 600 at maximum max. It's not enough to prestige even 1p base, you need 625 there. 40 000 prestige points at p10, what for?
And now my bases get 10 raids per cycle max. 40 deaths if 4.0 ratio. 40 deaths versus 200. Of course it is not enough.
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3411889#Comment_3411889
I don't know how to properly design a base with profits in mind if 200 death of different people isn't enough for base to prestige itself (see above). My normal (and small) base with 4 kill ratio gave me 60 (!) points of synth on its latest cycle. How can you even talk about synth profit if you definitely can't earn from building more synth than you spend? What do I do wrong? What do I miss?
Or do you suggest to create normal small bases to spend less? It's a great option to save synth but that's not a solution for initial lack of it. If we aren't supposed to have enough resources for that many bases (bc we have raid issues) then why do we have 5 slots in the first place? I just can't get it.
If we aren't supposed to have enough resources for that many bases (bc we have raid issues) then why do we have 5 slots in the first place? I just can't get it.
Two reasons.
One: There are five types of GenMat (five Advisors), so you can have five bases.
Two: You're not supposed to be able to only build. BHVR designed the game to force everyone to raid. You can just raid, or you can raid and build, but you can't just build. That's why the grind is the way it is. If there are too many Builders and not enough Raiders, no one's bases get raided and the game dies. The more bases a player has, the more they're forced to raid. Unless you want to make the game a full-time job, you're really not meant to keep five bases activated at all times.
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There is, "Strip." You can see the option at the bottom of the screen when you open up the menu to choose block type/trap/etc.
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Yup, I completely disabled my Outposts while I was grinding to Master.
The Rank system in this game is busted. Subtracting Rank points for any reason discourages playing. The other day, I built a new Outpost, a small Normal level, and it got some kills but apparently not enough: while I was raiding, after completing a raid on the first try, I saw "-214" rank points, and I deactivated the Outpost and stripped it. Haven't built a new one since.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/373636/material-drops-were-a-mistake
corrosive cubes are only a problem if you don't have either a phoenix pod or a clear way to get through them by grappling through it. shield also helps.
the falling through the collision meshes of other objects though is very obnoxious.
the biggest issue i have with it is the blatant blocking off of forbidden tombs that some builders do. not sure why they do it unless it's just to troll raiders. i personally don't see the point.
to that extent... i think there should be a slight area of effect in regards to pickup. where you don't have to make direct contact with the drops. maybe eventually there can be a custodian with that specific gameplay in mind, but for now there needs to be an extended range for currency pickups.
corrosive cubes are only a problem if you don't have either a phoenix pod or a clear way to get through them by grappling through it. shield also helps.
Sometimes I pick the materials up with a shield, but with how often I get kind of stuck and can't move for a second or two it's too dangerous to do unless I can literally take a step forward and then right back out. If it's multiple cubes, if there's a drop, if there's a sloped floor in the way, it's just too likely to end in death.
the biggest issue i have with it is the blatant blocking off of forbidden tombs that some builders do. not sure why they do it unless it's just to troll raiders. i personally don't see the point.
I think it is to troll. Or maybe they just really don't like getting Accolades.
I don't see Tombs blocked very often. Sometimes the loot is trapped. When it comes to Corrosive Cubes, mostly the annoyance comes from watching over and over again as each material drop from destroyed traps falls into the lake of death under it. That gets really old while raiding an Outpost.
there needs to be an extended range for currency pickups.
Yeah, there really does. Having to directly touch materials to pick them up doesn't work when the collision is so busted. I can't stand seeing this one more time:
I guess all the cubes are hollow and can end up with materials stuck inside them, but the window cubes taunt me with it.
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@MrTrixer said:
The harvester doesn't activate the traps and guards, just because it can walk in and out of its own outpost doesn't make it beatable.
I'm talking about outposts like the one that put 20+ plasma bolt traps with aoe shots and grappling hooks in one big room and the pathway between them and a lot of corrosive cubes on the floor, I'm talking about the one where traps block your path, corrosive cubes as the walls and suicide guards with explosive units dropping down on you left and right while timing it for your shields to run out.
So, you say that the creators shouldn't waste their time running their own map? Then why should the rest of us waste our time running unplayable maps? I don't wanna go to an outpost just to get slaughtered over and over before finally giving up dude. That's not fun to me, its a major waste of time and makes you wanna stop playing.
BHVR has already said they don't want to annoy and stifle Builders by requiring them to complete their own maps. No one wants to re-run their base every time they make a change; there was one day I literally would've had to run my base 20 times. And I'd have to leave my bases practically devoid of guards: I've quit a lot of bases that have a room with multiple guards that are probably easy for other people but not me because I miss too many shots. The way a lot of players talk, they seem to prefer Outposts with guards to trap-only Outposts.
Rather than forcing Builders to beat their own maps, which at best marginally solves one issue and will definitely create others, it'd be better to implement a solution that addresses multiple issues in the game. There needs to be a tagging system so Raiders don't end up going to Outposts they have no interest in. There have been complaints about killboxes and mazes, but some players do enjoy those: if players were able to avoid Outposts they won't enjoy playing on in the first place that would solves a lot of issues. Also, Rank penalties need to be completely removed so that Builders aren't punished for creating non-killbox Outposts and so that Raiders aren't punished for dying or leaving.
Between the grind and the emphasis BHVR has put on getting kills, they've sapped a lot of the fun out of the game. They have made it so that some Builders are focused on killing to an unhealthy degree ("Raiders are quitting my base after a single death and it's not fair"). The maps are becoming what they are because the mechanics and reward system push players into it. I don't know why BHVR has such a hard time promoting challenging AND fun gameplay, but they do.
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Have people been thinking the Outpost names are unique? The Outpost name is just randomly pulled from a list of real-world locations. Putting an Outpost name into the Social search will usually bring up more than one instance.
This is why things like shaming and "hey, watch out for X Outpost" are dangerous.
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I think it's good for holocubes to be the way they are. It encourages using the bedrock within the design if you want to make use of holocubes. The textures flicker and can look like they're moving as is, so if any could be holocubes that would be unfair and unfun.
I do wish I could put decorations on blocks that have a second wave trap on them. The trap isn't there until later, so it's not like the decoration would be obscuring it while it's deadly. (It would suck as a Raider, though. I don't run after grabbing the GenMat, so knowing which cubes can have a second wave trap and which can't is very helpful.)
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The DbD deco pack rework is ugly. They didn't just add some rust, they made the stuff outright brown. Those blocks made for good roofing and industrial areas and there's no way to replace cubes, I have to dismantle my Outpost to make changes.
I wish they'd made changes that didn't turn the deco pack into such a repulsive eyesore. I get that the DbD deco needed something done, but this wasn't it: this doesn't fix the problem and it ruins the entire look. I cannot see ever using these blocks if they stay like this.
without altering the visual intentions for the Deco pack
Fail.
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@Redbeard_Steel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3403836#Comment_3403836
I never ran into this in the Beta, but it's possible I just missed it I suppose? It came on like a wave for me a few days ago. Saw it once, then next day it was just every other base.
Someone else suggested a button that respawns HRV, I agree that's likely the easiest fix all around.
I don't remember it being a problem in beta, but I thought maybe I'd just missed it or something. OP made it sound like it's a long-time ongoing issue, but until today they've only done the Launch Day patch (which would mean it was an issue in the beta) and a patch to help with stability (and I don't remember much if any talk about Harvey dying before that patch released, either).
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@Oh_Bob_Saget_86 said:
My assumption behind why they put it on a timer is due to capacity. Since each player can have 200 outposts, the game is swamped with them. So now they make them deplete at time intervals to open up chances for others bases to have a chance to be played.
HOWEVER,
I do not agree with that method, and instead, agree with the original posters idea.
How to bring balance to the issue? Honestly, i don't know. Because if something was changed about the timer, soon people would be upset about the fact their base is never played because there is simply to many available ones, never allowing theirs to get in the queue.
My assumption behind why they put it on a timer is due to capacity ... if something was changed about the timer, soon people would be upset about the fact their base is never played because there is simply to many available ones, never allowing theirs to get in the queue.
Each player can have five active bases at a time. Bases being alive for longer won't change that, so there wouldn't be an increase in the number of bases in the queue it will always be a max of five bases per player (and many/most won't have five active bases). Outpost death should be based on number of Raiders, not time. The number of Raiders an Outpost gets is way too inconsistent for basing it on time. It's not like all Outposts in the queue are getting played as is. I've had Outposts that only get one Raider during their entire activation (which is why my Outposts are probably staying deactivated until this gets addressed).
The reason there's a timer is because BHVR is focused on the grind. With the way BHVR's mechanics work, the Outposts are not for level design, they're for generating GenMat, which is why we have to pay Synthite to activate them and why they run on a timer.
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I understand maze creators not wanting the HRV to completely negate their work. Some people enjoy mazes. (Me, I've learned if I don't want to spend 30+ minutes wandering lost, then I should just hug the wall because then at some point I have to arrive at the GenMat. Mazes without some sort of hint/puzzle are not my thing.)
The game needs a tagging system so Builders who create mazes or any type of multi-path layout can tag their bases as such and people who want to play on them can and people who don't want to can avoid them.
I can't even begin to understand why this isn't fixed yet.
Was killing HRV a big issue during the beta?
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@MythicMikeneto said:
I there is the undo/redo, but it only holds one step; and copy, but again only copies 1 thing.
I too would like to see a 'swap' or 'change' option. It would be amazing to be able to modify an existing block for another or take and existing blkck and morph it into a different shape.
Dragging an existing block or group of block would be cool too, but may be difficult to create with the interface.
and copy, but again only copies 1 thing.
Yeah, I do that one a lot by accident when I mean to place something but push the wrong button.
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The elephant in the room - Corrosive Cube
OPAQUE SHOULD NOT ALLOW TAGETING
i'm fine with 2nd wave acid allowing targeting, i think 1st wave acid should allow targeting also for consistency, but it's a TRANSLUCENT fluid, you do not have clear line of sight, nerf targeting range if it goes through acid. reduce the range by a percentage down to minimum 3 (the block behind the acid the trap is in, the acid, and the block you're in to trigger it) and it will make it a real tradeoff to use acid in that manner.
According to the Launch Day Patch Notes, traps aren't supposed to be able to target through Corrosive Cubes:
Bolt Shot Traps will no longer detect Raiders through Corrosive Cubes.
https://support.meetyourmakergame.com/hc/en-us/articles/14596921595796-Patch-Notes-Launch-Day-1
It seems they fixed the issue in first wave and forgot second wave.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3402947#Comment_3402947
Definitely not. And I also believe I came across an impossible one too.
It was a snaking pathway, about 5 or 6 turns with about 8-10 block long hallways. Of course second wave hits and every wall is an opaque corrosive cube.
- At the ends of each 'hall' there is an Incinerator facing down it, flanking it from both ends.
- Multiple Pistons.
- 5/6 corners = 10/12 Incinerators, not enough ammo to take them all out, even with grenades. Plus there seemed to be a drop in front of the incinerators to prevent grenades.
- Halls are long enough that you can't 'race' the incinerator, and Arc Shield doesn't last the duration.
- No space behind the cubes to grapple through them.
Either I got the same Outpost tonight or that's a new template going around. Man I hope it's the former and not the latter, that was some absolute bull.
@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3402931#Comment_3402931
yes. i'll post more examples in the future.
Yeah, no. I've gotten two Brutal mazes in the past two days. Each one was over 20 minutes of long twisty hallways with no markings where all I could do was hug the wall until I ran into the GenMat, then hug the wall back. There's definitely no 20-second version of running either of those, even if you actually know the exact path.
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This prestige problem holds creators at ransom to only create things that people will like instead of trying to be free on how they create.
The game calls it "Prestige" but in a lot of ways each prestige level is more like getting one step closer to retirement rather than progressing the Outpost. Prestige exists to get bases that have seen a lot of Raiders out of the way for new bases.
Accolades exist as a way to encourage Builders to create Outposts that are fun for Raiders. That's their main purpose. Builders are free to build whatever they want, you don't have to appeal to Raiders, there's no need to Prestige.
Not being able to Prestige isn't itself a problem, it's just a symptom. The issue is that Outposts aren't being seen, and even when they are seen they're often seen by the wrong players.
Everyone has their own preferences, so you can't really pander to Raiders as a whole. The problem is that Raiders have no way to match up with bases they will enjoy. The game needs a tag system so Outposts can be marked as mazes, puzzles, hardcore kill rooms, speedrunner challenges, platformers, etc. I've had so many boring raids because I end up in Outposts that don't suit me at all. That's bad for player retention, because if Raiders aren't going to Outposts they enjoy, they're going to quit playing altogether.
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@Darkyan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3402843#Comment_3402843
Same with Square and X for playstation
I actively hover on "Artistic" press X, and I drown in regrets as my screen turns Black and I just lie to myself "Yeahh, maybe it wasn't that great of a base after all." ):
I felt sooo bad, there was a base I visited yesterday that I really enjoyed and I gave them a Fun (if I don't hate the base I give it a Fun) and was giving them an Artistic, too, except yeah, I did the thing: I pressed X instead of Square. ):
I don't understand why BHVR did this one thing different from every other interaction, and it's a feature that's of huge importance for Builders. I think a lot of console players skip giving Accolades without meaning to, and console hugely outweighs the PC players so yeah, this button thing hurts.
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@Entchenklein said:
maybe a alpha outpost would be awesome
Alpha Outpost:
-You can select one of your bases to be the Alpha Outpost
-Never depletes only needs to be reactivated once every 24 hours
-Every trap you use in your Alpha Outpost must get bought seperately aka you want 100 spike traps you have to buy 100 same for guards and Trap modifiers
-Potential aditional prestige levels for Alpha Outpost
I was thinking of something similar to this as well. Like, the Builder pays Synthite to activate the Alpha slot for a 24-hour period, and they can put one fully Prestiged Outpost in the Alpha slot and switch it up whenever they want (there could be a limit on how much time a single Outpost can be Alpha during a week/month/season if necessary). There's a special Alpha Outpost pool, just like there's a special Champion Outpost pool. Raiders and Builders still get materials and what not from the Outpost, that way it's not a waste of Synthite (because everyone's grinding and few are interested in Social "for fun" raids).
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I've been disconnected from a map before, and I was sad it wasn't in my list so I could return to it. It would be nice if BHVR kept track of something like that so a Raider could return to it after a crash/disconnect if they choose to.
be punished for trying to exploit
Rather than do that, it would be better to remove the exploit and the reason for exploiting altogether. Players should not be penalized in Rank points, at least not before reaching Master. Rank is not actually competitive before reaching Master, it's just a battle pass system of earning points for seasonal cosmetics. If Raiders weren't penalized for dying or leaving through the game menu, that would take away one big reason to quit out. (There are other reasons to get rid of penalizing rank but going into them would be off-topic. It's not "oh, reward the people using this exploit," it's that penalizing rank is actively hurting the game in multiple ways.)
The other thing that needs to happen is for all kills to count for the Builder regardless of how the Raider left the game. The Replay system knows the death count, so that information is there, it's just not being utilized for some reason.
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@Seraphor said:
How did I get 6 raids with 43 deaths and still not get enough prestige points? 510/575
I think deaths stop counting after a bit for a single Raider. So one Raider can't go in and die 100 times to give an Outpost all the prestige points it needs, it has to be spread out across multiple Raiders.
Edit: I say that because usually I get like 2 or 3 Raiders with 0 deaths and then some Raider throwing off the average with 20 deaths or something. If the deaths on your Outpost are evenly spread out across multiple Raiders, then I have no clue: neither I nor the best mathematicians in the world understand how BHVR's math works. I mean, I don't know what the cutoff is for when they stop counting deaths for a particular Raider.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3402515#Comment_3402515
removing the stupid accolades system would be a start.
The Accolades system is BHVR being BHVR. They never know how to organically encourage fun gameplay. They create systems that are at odds with each other. DbD has the same problem, trying to encourage gameplay that's fun for the opposing side with the emblem system, but playing efficiently to win is totally at odds with the emblems and it creates constant friction and unhappiness. BHVR doesn't seem to have learned a damn thing and did it in MYM as well. "Winning" for Builders is getting kills, but designing a quick and easy Outpost to get kills isn't going to be considered fun by the majority of Raiders, so BHVR put in the Accolades system to band-aid that. What they've created is a mess that wants to be multiple things and fails to be good at most of them.
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3402481#Comment_3402481
All of this. Gaining Synthite is not hard if you just bother to raid a few times.
However, the lack of raids on your own outposts is a significant issue, and definitely impacts this a little (no raids = no loot to farm)
I feel like something fundamentally needs to change to fix this, because 1-3 raids every 24 hours is not sustainable, If you fail to meet Prestige 5 requirements, then that outpost is dead, you will reset prestige points and it will never make up the difference to get to P6.
Yet it's not something that 'more players' will resolve, because more raiders means more builders which means more outposts to compete with.
I feel like something fundamentally needs to change to fix this, because 1-3 raids every 24 hours is not sustainable, If you fail to meet Prestige 5 requirements, then that outpost is dead, you will reset prestige points and it will never make up the difference to get to P6.
Prestige is like the game's way of saying, "You're popular, people are going to your base, so we're graduating you up and up until so many people have enjoyed your base that it's time to retire it and let people experience new bases." Except, the system sucks at that. Builders have no control over how many people see their base and can have the base live for 24 hours and never get a single Raider. Some bases don't even get to last for 24 hours, some only last 12 hours, and for those bases things like region and time of day can kill them and how is the Builder supposed to reasonably deal with that?
Then, if your base doesn't get enough Raiders, it expires and you have to spend Synthite just for the chance that players will see it with no guarantee they will see it and certainly no guarantee you'll get a single Raider. That sucks.
People who enjoy building want their creations to be experienced, and they feel that grinding for and spending Synthite should mean their Outposts are experienced. BHVR pushes that Outposts are GenMat extractors and that's what you're spending Synthite for, to extract GenMat, and while it's extracting GenMat Raiders can come try to steal it. That's where a large amount of friction is coming from: what Builders want and what BHVR wants Builders to want are two different things.
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@ironblade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3401817#Comment_3401817
Even raiding is getting worse by the minute. People are already massively exploiting the opaque corrosive cubes with a bunch of different traps behind it like bolts and incinerators. Throwing grenades won't help either because they have counter measures for that so it falls underneath the traps and there are more than 1 corrosive cube so grappling won't help either.
Oh yeah, that crap's so fun. Yesterday I had a walkway of pistons lined by second wave Corrosive Cubes with the splash damage effect. Take a step forward, wait for the red flash and listen to the sound the trap makes, take a step back, put up the shield to block Bolts with Hunter or the Iron Claw, wait for the shield to recharge, double check to make sure the Bolt trap doesn't have Double Shot, then take care of the next piston and do it again. I hope the Builder loads up the replay and is as bored watching it as I was doing it.
If the Builder uses Incinerators too it's like, "Nope, sorry, don't know what happened there, my game must have crashed or something." There are tons of well done Outposts out there not getting Raiders and I end up on this nonsense? Yeah, neither side is having the best of experiences.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3402025#Comment_3402025
my wording was poor.
what i meant was "playing normal bases still gives ranking points to high ranked players"
which i don't think should be a thing.
in fighting games they usually reduce the amount of points you get from beating up a player that is lower in rank than you and remove a ton of points from your rank if you lose. whereas when playing against opponents of your own level you get roughly the same as you lose. taking on higher ranked opponents will skyrocket you into the upper ranks.
my issue is that high ranking players can still grind their way to the highest levels of ranked with the "easy" difficulty bases.
Ah, okay, that makes more sense.
Each time a player gets to the next rank (Bronze -> Silver -> Gold), the Outposts reward fewer Rank points. Once you hit Gold rank, Normal Outposts reward (I think) about 30 points. Dangerous Outposts reward 87 points or so. And Brutal rewards something like 125 points.
The number of points needed for Gold I-III is 1500 points each, and to get from Gold IV to Master is 6500 points.
Grinding away at Normal Outposts is a slow, slow way to get to Master.
"playing normal bases still gives ranking points to high ranked players"
which i don't think should be a thing.
This is why BHVR shouldn't combine competitive ranking with a battle pass or any sort of rewards. Almost everyone ends up unhappy with the results for one reason or another. Most players grinding Normal Outposts aren't in it for the competitive ranking aspect, they're doing it for the battle pass aspect, and because they can lose rank points if they die they're working to reach Master now because until they do they can't have fun and play harder Outposts.
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the more i play this game and level the more i feel like after about custodian level 25 there's nothing to do other than grind rank.
which - i have no proof as i don't really care about rank so i haven't bothered to pay attention - apparently rewards progress for doing ONLY normal bases?
I've never heard that one before. All activated Outposts regardless of difficulty reward Rank, but the number of Rank points rewarded diminishes quickly for each death until it caps out at (if I remember correctly) -30 points. Most players don't want to go backwards, so rather than risk losing progress they already earned they stick to Outposts they can probably run deathless.
This is why I am so vocally vehemently against BHVR's habit of taking away progress towards reward goals. MYM calls it "Rank" but it's really just accruing a set number of points like a battle pass until it reaches Master, which is when the ranking actually becomes competitive. BHVR announced cosmetics as seasonal rewards for ranking up and the results were easily predictable.
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Ditto.
Building is pretty unrewarding. BHVR has "Accolades" in case that can help Builders feel like their efforts aren't for naught, but BHVR screwed up so bad on console that a lot of players don't even give Accolades.
I deactivated all my Outposts over a week ago and haven't re-activated them since. No one was Raiding them, there was no fun to be had in keeping them active. They mess with Rank, anyway, because every time some speedrunner was slummin' it to avoid dying in Brutal I was seeing negative Rank points after successfully raiding an Outpost on the first try (the game doesn't inform you that's why you lose Rank, but I figured it out after deactivating my Outposts and my Rank gains/losses stopped being inconsistent).
It's counterproductive for the Rank system to punish players for being ambitious: be perfect or go home. Players are reacting in a very predictable and negative manner that's hurting the game because, surprise, people don't like feeling punished and will try anything to avoid it.
I'm at Gold IV and more and more I'm thinking of stopping the moment I reach Master. Gold IV is a horrible grind. I was so happy to reach Gold III and be almost done, and then I saw Gold IV and really considered uninstalling right there. It feels like such a "screw you" to players.
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Outposts dying due to time rather than number of Raiders is one of the big problems. 24-hours after an Outpost is activated it can die having seen only one or even zero Raiders. There's no guarantee someone's work will be seen by anyone much less seen by someone who will enjoy it.
Whether that's because the algorithm sucks at showing Outposts equally or because the ratio of Raiders to Outposts is too low, I don't know. Maybe it's a combination or both. It needs to be fixed.
For some reason BHVR balanced the game around having five Outposts at once, which is too many. The average player can't keep that up and will burn themselves out trying. Two active Outposts per player would be more reasonable, and let the player choose a third Outpost from their max Prestige Outposts to have live on in a special pool that will still generate materials/GenMat for the Builder and Raiders. The Builder can choose a new max Prestige Outpost to have live whenever they want, so no Outpost is ever truly dead, and their other maxed Outposts can all be set to Social.
There should be no loss of Rank, only gain. Don't punish Builders for focusing on fun over kills, don't punish Raiders who are persistent but not perfect on their first try. Outposts should only gain Rank. Raiders should get the same amount of Rank from each Outpost difficulty when they steal the GenMat whether it took them one try or a hundred, and no Rank is lost if they abandon. The current Rank system is chasing Raiders away from attempting Brutal Outposts, and that's hurting Builders. You want Raiders to be willing to die over and over again.
That's my opinion, anyway, and a lot of it fits what I've seen said here and on other forums about MYM. These different issues (Outposts not getting Raiders, Outposts dying at P10, and Raiders farming low-difficulty Outposts and refusing to challenge themselves which burns out the Raiders and also hurts Builders) are having negative effects and chasing players away.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3401077#Comment_3401077
ah. unfortunate. i have an xsx and haven't experienced this issue. then again im also slightly color blind and dumb.
Ah. PS4 Pro here. The game performs better than DbD, I can say that at least. I haven't experienced the frame drops I've seen other people mention, even when the Builder spams the DbD Generator décor. The textures can do weird stuff, though, flickering or appearing to be moving. Pieces of texture or gore splatters will disappear in a flash from certain angles. I don't know what the moths around the light fixtures look like for other platforms, but on mine they look more like rendering glitches or artifacting than flying insects.
@magic1236 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3401077#Comment_3401077
Could this be a pc thing as I haven’t exprinced this issue yet on Xbox. Or maybe I have but I don’t realize it
PS4 Pro. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it can be distracting enough to get me killed.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3401067#Comment_3401067
players like you give me so much joy. i should make more ammo captures in my new base i'm building.
Personally I run with the Volt Lancer and either the Arc Barrier or Plasmabow. The Plasmabow won't destroy traps but it'll reveal Holocubes, and it has more than enough ammo to waste.
I do wish BHVR would improve their graphics so the textures would stop flickering. It's really annoying. I'm considering turning the game off after this weekend and not playing it until they start fixing this stuff, there are too many things that are just broken.
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I do it because sometimes I can't see the holographic effect very well and even ones that are normal will look like they're flickering (thanks to the glitchy textures), and it's quicker to just shoot it than to stop and look closely at the thing. I can shoot and walk at the same time and it doesn't slow me down, unlike carefully studying every piece of bedrock in the walls.
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As others have said, customer support is not going to know the answer.
If the question is, "Is the Second Wave Corrosive Cube behavior intended?" the answer is almost a definite no. I say this because:
Bolt Shot Traps will no longer detect Raiders through Corrosive Cubes.
is in the Launch Day Patch Notes under "Raiding"
https://support.meetyourmakergame.com/hc/en-us/articles/14596921595796-Patch-Notes-Launch-Day-1
It doesn't mention only first or second wave, it just says Bolt Traps won't detect Raiders through Corrosive Cubes in general. That suggests this is a bug.
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The thumbnails give me warnings about holo-cubes in the Outpost's front area. The bright green really stands out.
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A new low? I've experienced Builders hiding traps behind second-wave opaque Corrosive Cubes, suicide bombers dropping from the ceiling, and Incinerators behind wedges where if you even manage to get to it you won't be able to get back out and will have to restart. Destroying HRV at the beginning doesn't kill the Raider, it's just to encourage playing the maze as it's intended (and the good ones will have hints for Raiders who pay attention) or to encourage someone to explore (my friend built a base that destroys HRV, and it's not a maze at all but it does have a very short path that branches off to a Tomb and he wanted there to be a chance Raiders might actually go that direction, otherwise it's a very straightforward Outpost).
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@chezpizza said:
You only lose about 30 points of ranking even if you die 100 times.
Outposts can hurt your Rank, too. No one was running my Brutal Outpost, and my Dangerous and Normal Outposts were getting a lot of players who were looking for easier levels to farm. I'd be Raiding and complete an Outpost on the first try and see negative Rank points because the Outposts were doing poorly. Between hardly getting any Raiders and the ones I did get hurting my Rank, I've disabled my Outposts for the foreseeable future.
MYM's reward system has got Builders trying to create unfun death traps and Raiders trying to avoid dying. Its at odds with itself. BHVR created a level designer with a huge grind that they also want to be nastily competitive and it's hurting the game. I'm not saying Builders shouldn't try to kill Raiders, I'm just saying that the reward system shouldn't be based around it. Players should be able to build what they want and die an infinite amount of times, and as long as they're playing the game they should be making progress towards the seasonal cosmetics.
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@magic1236 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3399864#Comment_3399864
I get not punishing raiders for persisting but on abandoning raids that should be slightly punished. Now if the person died a lot or took a lot of time before they abandoned then the punishment is less severe.
that should be slightly punished
I thought that too at first, but after a I played more I changed my mind. Punishing players discourages behavior that MYM should be encouraging. BHVR trying to treat this like a competitive game will hurt it. Neither Builders nor Raiders should lose rank points. Builders should feel encouraged to build fun levels that get Accolades, and Raiders should feel encouraged to challenge themselves. Any loss of rank points discourages attempting harder Outposts. I myself pretty much exclusively stick to Normal because I'm trying to avoid dying to avoid my Rank going down. That sucks for the Builders, who are getting a Raider who probably doesn't die once, because the Builders do lose rank points for that. I should be encouraged to go to an Outpost where I'll die, and I shouldn't have to die a certain number of times to be punished less. Leaving an Outpost without stealing the GenMat should just award zero rank points.
Anyway, this thread is about some players wanting Builders to have to beat their own level. I don't think they should need to, but that means Raiders shouldn't be punished if they can't complete it, either. That's fair.
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This has been suggested a lot, and a dev addressed it in a Reddit AMA: https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/12cszga/comment/jf39myf/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
The dev is correct: you don't have to beat the base. You can leave without collecting the GenMat and then after having attempted the base even just once you can Abandon the base from your Command Center.
Builders don't need to be able to beat their own Outpost, but Raiders shouldn't be punished if they can't beat it, either. What the devs need to do is make it so players don't lose Rank points, because as is dying a few times and/or abandoning a raid absolutely punishes Raiders when it comes to their Rank. Going backwards in Rank is not okay in a game like this.
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I try to give an Accolade to most everyone (really good bases get two, like if the traps were really well done or effort was put into making the base look nice). It sucks to have Raiders come through and not give Accolades. I try to assume the other console players are skipping past the screen thinking they did give an Accolade because BHVR screwed up the buttons/UI so bad, but the idea the players didn't enjoy my base still stings.
The times when I won't give Accolades: the Tombs are blocked off or use Corrosive Cubes to steal the loot; the layout is designed to steal my ammo; the map is Corrosive Cubes and one or two other traps spammed everywhere; the Outpost is nothing but cramped corridors and Warmongers; the builder used second wave Corrosive Cubes to hide traps; the builder uses a ton of wedges everywhere (not a few, I mean covering the base with the things) to make traps really difficult to deal with. I know the devs prioritize kills over fun because BHVR never learns its lesson, but I'm not blocking people for using strategies I find cheap, I just don't reward them for it.
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@chezpizza said:
Yeah, the Reset button is a bit misleading. Sounds like I'm about to dump the prestige points I have recieved.
You lose any unspent Prestige points, you just don't lose your Prestige levels. Which makes it even harder to reach the next Prestige level. I don't think any Outpost I've had to reset has recovered, they're all stuck at that Prestige level, now.
I do wish the game explained anything when it comes to what these different options/mechanics do. It's so unnecessarily opaque about things players need to know while over-explaining its lore in the Codex. Freaking backwards.
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@Seraphor said:
Ok this is ridiculous. Apparently adding basic blocks increases difficulty rating as well.
I manage to tweak an outpost to where it was right on the cusp of Dangerous/Brutal, then proceeded to fill out the outpost with bricks so it didn't look like a complete mess.
Somewhere along the way it crossed over into Brutal and now I can't get it back.
Yup. Sometimes the algorithm decides that this one wall cube I replaced is somehow more dangerous than 3+ traps, because that's what it takes to get the Outpost back down to Dangerous: deleting a bunch of traps.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3399027#Comment_3399027
Also it just rewards brushing through easier content instead of trying to play harder content. Having a base at Dangerous Rating or Brutal Rating is already bad enough considering the lack of people raiding on those difficulties, but Ranks just increase the lack of players even more.
Yup, I never go past Normal for raids. Each time I try I regret it. It's slow going forwards, but it's better than going backwards. I'd practice doing Social Brutal raids but the grind is unreal, even Tombs have been awful at rewarding Synthite, I get like 5-10 Synthite and the rest is Parts.
It feels like the game is trying to chase away its players with how discouraging the entire sum of its mechanics is. Between the rank system, the grind, and the lack of raiders to my own Outposts when I myself raid so much, I'm pretty close to uninstalling.
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@Cyba_Zero said:
It would also be nice to have a skip-to point in replay for tombs, much like there already is for grabbing the GenMat .
You get to skip to GenMat, nice. You must be on PC. Console doesn't have skip or rewind at all. We can go forward at double speed, that's our quickest way to get through a Replay. It sucks.
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Earning negative points and rank being able to go backwards isn't an incentive, it de-incentives players: it discourages people who are trying to learn or challenge themselves from playing. And once you hit Master rank, you're better off just not playing at all until the new season.
I've been complaining about Grades on DbD since it changed to the rewards-for-grades system and they came and made it worse for MYM.