Toystory3Monkey
Toystory3Monkey
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Break into internet to validate my worldview.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788399#Comment_3788399
It's not meta, but you really can't argue that the perk isn't the problem here.
You only bring knockout for one main reason, and typically people who do bring it play 100% with the slugging "for a ######### experience" play style in mind.
Similar to boil over, tho I can at least say that boil over was dealt with quickly when they considered changing it, and it's also been severely hindered by hooks respawning. No such changes have been made to target slugging like this.
ofc it's problematic, but not because it's strong.
it's one of the few perks that actually fit the definition of anti solo q.
I wouldnt mind if knock out just doubled down on its secondary effects and made recovery / crawling speed even worse and for longer. Without the primary basekit blindness effect.
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that looks terrible.
fog concealed bad graphics and made the maps atmospheric. now it all looks naked and you can see how bad it is way easier
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788261#Comment_3788261
The thing is, I am very convinced that people who play like that dont care if they win. I went against a Legion a few days ago who tried to slug the whole team. It was a long and tedious match with 3 escapes in the end and I guess nobody had fun in it. And the only reason why we had 3 escapes (one person bleed out) was because we were at least a 2man SWF, probably 2 2man SWF and had the last Gens basically in every corner of the map, which allowed us to work on them when not being slugged (even tho it also meant to travel long distances for a pickup..).
I asked the Legion why they play like this just to be annoying and they said that they do not care about winning or having fun anymore and just want that Survivors have a bad experience. Great.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788266#Comment_3788266
100% this.
Knockout and Boil Over will never be good and they are only really "useful" in an unhealthy way. Knockout is a bit easier to use, because you would need a full build for Boil Over (and probably a SWF), but both Perks will never find themselves in Loadout of players who just want to have a normal game.
obviously people do it for trolling, but OP talks about it as if it's meta. It isn't.
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@dwight444 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788306#Comment_3788306
you're assuming matchmaking works (it doesn't)
it's as much 'their problem' as it is you cheesing your way to a mmr where you feel this is the only way to play…
so matchmaking doesnt work (i know it way better than you) which leads to survivors being more prone to being underskilled than killer and how's that killer's issue?
devs have stated multiple times they arent going to balance the game around bad players. if survivors are severely lacking compared to killer, they are not meant to win.
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@dwight444 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788294#Comment_3788294
I didn't say too op, it's too rewarding for the effort and the relative amount of coordination required by the 4 random players. F o u r random players, each with their own perception of what to do, what the match objective is and varying skill levels
it doesnt require much coordination or effort.
3 people need enough gamesense to not drop all their gens and waste time running around proxy camped person.
if they cant use their status HUD to see whether or not other people doing gens and make a decision based on that, that's their problem.
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@dwight444 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787895#Comment_3787895
'do gens' is easier said than done in a swf or at higher mmr
at lower or where the avg survivor plays mmr, a survivor or 2 will immediately get off gen when they see someone even go down because they think he needs to be saved asap. If killer decides to camp, these guys will just surround hook waiting for who is going to actually save. You might know the optimal way to handle this situation but 9/10 times the randoms do not
either way, game is over most of the time here because there are way too many people off of gens for way too long and you're unlikely to recover from this
camping is too viable in solo q because too much coordination is required amongst a group of 4 uncoordinated players due to them having very little tools to coordinate besides a hud which most don't know how to use to make an informed decision
so survivors cant stop themselves from being greedy for insta/fast unhook (something you should really rarely do) to the point they dont understand it's more profitable to finish gen and then go for unhook than go for unhook and backtrack and you think it's the issue with killer's playstyles being op?
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damn, who should I believe, y'all make such compelling arguments
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You're wasting time and not removing vital resources from survivors.
Whenever they pick up / reset you don't get any progression towards your objective.
If you slug like that and dont slug the whole team / bleed them out, you lose the game with 0 hooks.
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Skill issue.
You dont understand how apply his powers in chases efficiently and lose because of that.
Get good at using the powers, learn when it's the appropriate time to use each form, how to shutdown tiles with both abilities, how to navigate with bat and you'll have marginally better results.
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Map offerings plague this game and need to go.
Best solution is to make them ban a particular map instead of increasing chances for it. Way less potential for abuse.
If some niche map dependant builds / rpd 20 escape farmers suffer, unlucky, I dont think they outweight the benefits of not letting people affect one of the most important RNG aspects of the match to gain unfair advantage. Especially if most of these map dependant builds are toxic themselves (boil over abuses, darkness revealed midwich nurse, etc)
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@upsideinsanity said:
It seems you all forget about the killer playstyle of proxy camping, downing the rescuer, leaving them in the death state and tunneling the person that was just unhooked.
And don't give me the "but there are anti-tunnel perks" response because no one should have to run a full build of anti-tunnel perks that might only give you a little bit more game time to get around this playstyle while someone else is then bleeding out on the ground. That now makes the game unfun for not just one but two survivors.
all hinges so much on survivors not being able to hold chase for a while
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People complain maps are too big / long, devs make them into squares, people complain maps are too small and square.
sounds like there's no winning.
i personally enjoy the variety. different killers can shine depending on map's configuration as some mobility powers are better for travelling long distances at a time and fall off in smaller square maps where more medium range mobility powers get to shine and vica versa.
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@ChuckingWong said:
If you mindlessly camp in pubs, the only reason you'll succeed is because your opponents have no clue what to do and will gladly throw the game for you if not give up right away. otherwise, you'll lose gens, get a trade, end up in a terrible position.
Thats not the "only reason". Or even a reason at all.
Solos cant communicate who to go save. Or even when its safe to save. Not all killers have a TR, even if they did have a TR, that doesnt mean everything; what about multilevel maps or walls that would make it safe?
Theres so much at play here to save from a camp on the survivors end.
Not everyone brings kindred, not everyone brings reassurance, or we'll make it. I cant see that on my end even if that is the case. I dont know my teams perks. Do you somehow?
Camping requires you to look at your screen, see an aura that tells you where the survivor you hooked is, and wait for any pixels moving around or towards the hook.
Now I dont know the solution to rid this game of this; short of making survivors that are unhooked just untouchable for 2 minutes or invulnerable. I dont see a way to really fix this.
We see a little bit of it in 2v8 where it teleports the hooked survivor somewhere else, which would be nice but there are other things that need addressing balance wise before something like that happens. And it would also need to rid the noise notification on unhook as well.yeah, solos are not very optimal, thats just how it is. which is why the game has lots of very powerful perks that pretty much shutdown proxy camping if used right.
there's no way to fix this, uncoordinated random survivors suck and if the killer is good & sweaty enough, they'll easily breach holes in their teamwork.
they will always underperform and make macro mistakes as long as there's any form of macro skill expression in this game so unless you'd want it being removed & streamlined into 1v1 simulator, I suggest you get comfortable with it staying as is with occasional nerfs every year.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787895#Comment_3787895
Learheface, trickster, huntress, hillbilly, deathslinger, etc. are all killers that can camp extremely well. I just picked leatherface because he is the most notable example.
In soloq, unless someone has kindred, there is no way to know a killer is camping until you have been there and seen it which wastes a lot of time.
Camping is a base feature. It requires neither a high amount of skill nor any specific perks (though there are camping support perks like deadlock), however for survivors without comms, as explained above, just getting the info that a killer is camping wastes a lot of time and the only real counter against campers like leatherface, trickster, huntress, etc. is, as you have said, perks or trying to pull insane stunts just to counter someone standing in place.
The amount of effort the killer has to put into camping vs the amount of effort and coordination survivors need to counter it are in no way comparable, which imo isn't good game design.
Proxy camping requires decent gamesense to know when it's feasible to do so. Just because something doesnt take mechanical skill, doesnt mean it doesnt take any skill at all.
If you mindlessly camp in pubs, the only reason you'll succeed is because your opponents have no clue what to do and will gladly throw the game for you if not give up right away. otherwise, you'll lose gens, get a trade, end up in a terrible position.
and, as I said, there's a plenty of countermeasures and nerfs being made to make proxying unviable in any close skilled games except rare exceptionally fortunate scenarios like huntress getting a hill hook inside a 4 gen 30 seconds into the match.
lots of things in this game take less effort to do than to counter. frankly, most of the time that means that if you do implement that effort to counter them, the counter is reliable enough to ensure consistent or nearly so success. that's just how this game works for the most part, including the overall killer/survivor balancing dynamic.
anticamp system, 70 second stages, all the possible perks you have to fight camping and make it as risky and unreliable for killers in general as possible makes it really hard to take complaints about that seriously. at some point you just need to accept you/your team cant make correct decisions or execute them and no amount of balancing will aid that.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787876#Comment_3787876
"Plentiful counterplay"
Please explain what plentiful counterplay there is (without comms) when a leatherface stands 16m from a hook and moves in whenever he sees someone get close.
wait till he gets distracted and trade. also do gens, granted now survivors spend 145 seconds on the hook including all animations. if killer doesnt lose 3 gens for camping, you cant blame anyone but yourself.
as for builds you might want to have if you're playing to win, use a sweaty perk called reassurance. or its lesser known alternative camaraderie. perks like babysitter or DS help to ensure the trade is secured.
did i say do gens? do gens.
also dont cherry pick examples. dbd community loves doing that so much and it's not really a good way of arguing.
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10 minute of voicelines for Singularity.
Voicelines for entering overclock, voicelines specifically addressed to Gabriel, voicelines for grabbing people, separate voicelines for being stunned and blinded, voicelines for downing people in exit gates, etc,etc.
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why should they? it's a legitimate strategy that has plentiful counterplay and risk to it.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787821#Comment_3787821
I hoping they resolve the issue tho, the game is well past the point where visibility should be a balancing factor.Serious question: how do you have a game where stealth is a major component without visibility being a balancing factor?
You dont and dbd isn't mainly focused on stealth.
We're well past the point where sitting in a bush and killer walking past you because you blend in.
Stealth in this game is expressed by not being on the killer's screen / in their line of sight in the first place, meaning you dont need to care about killers being in endless darkness.
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Im glad I stopped using the brightness filter a while ago.
It made the game easier on my eyes but I just felt I shouldnt get used to it.
I hoping they resolve the issue tho, the game is well past the point where visibility should be a balancing factor.
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it's so funny watch people do these power scaling mental gymnastics when dbd essentially puts 4 protagonists of various horror stories against various monsters that are all (survivors&killers included) are made equal by the realm's host.
it doesnt matter now.
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Dredge just got fixed and killers like Nemesis or Singularity are meant to have loud proximity noise because they arent meant to be able to sneak upon people.
Plus that's the case where competitive disadvantage is something devs have to deal with so that the character gets more flavour and that's completely fine.
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"you just had to ruin it by getting good".
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Idk, I play singularity and I get enough skill expression for fair payoff.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787273#Comment_3787273
So basically its up the killer if they want to win or have a fun game for Survivors and the Survivors basically have to do whatever the Killer wants? Wow I'm glad you're not in charge. I will say again though I appreciate your honesty it seems you're saying out loud what many Killer mains actually want but are savvy enough not to say.
killer is the power role. they are also the singular player for their side which means they naturally have more agency.
if multiple survivors stack together with an intent to sweat, they'll have just as much control over the match.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787248#Comment_3787248
You literally said that the game is balanced around Killers being inefficient and that's a good thing, but earlier you accused Op of wanting the game balanced around Survivors being inefficient and somehow that's a bad thing. Hmm I wonder if you main Killer or Survivor. Do you understand why this may come off as biased? I mean I do appreciate your honesty though.
killers playing inefficient = killers being nice - not camping, tunnelling, slugging, etc.
survivors playing inefficient = survivors being uncoordinated and not doing the objective at all.
big difference.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787227#Comment_3787227
Well if that's true no wonder the game balance is so out of whack. They might as well buff Survivors enough to have a decent chance of winning if the killers camps and tunnels and uses every cheesy tactic since they're going to do it anyway. And that's even more reason why the 60% target is completely ridiculous.
good thing you arent in charge, the game has been pretty fun in the last years on both sides for me specifically bc of that balancing
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787141#Comment_3787141
Right now the game is balanced around Killers playing inefficiently and bad. We want it more balanced try to keep up.
Correct. Because the game tries really hard to be playable for killers when killers dont camp, tunnel and slug as hard as they can every game. It still isn't at some point, but it's definitely doing a decent job at it.
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OP wants the game to be balanced around people playing inefficiently and bad.
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Penti is fine. If your issue with anything is people being dumb, then you're targeting the wrong thing.
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People think they won in unfair circumstances against all odds (sweaty killer, op perks, op killers, 4 man COMP SWF, unfair map, bad teammates) and that makes them feel entitled to acting like douches if they did in fact won because they think their opponent was trying too hard and deserves to get treatment like that.
A concept of good sportsmanship is known to these people only by name.
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I dont think survivor can be really fixed.
Not just in this gamemode, but overall.
The reason survivor is boring is because that's the most stale thing in this game. Lights out, 2v8, etc didnt bring anything new to the table for the survivors and they most likely won't.
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Game becoming PvE the moment killer gets a good start lmfao
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It's fine. It has a bunch of unique yet playable tiles and god pallets to use.
If your fellow survivors cant last 20 seconds, it's a skill issue.
if your opponents cant last 20 seconds, it's a skill issue (theirs, not yours).
It's also decently big.
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@Burniebotss said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786805#Comment_3786805
it’s not immersed, the game isn’t immersive, you worry more about gems, and you can’t see 10 dollar cosmetics
idc, i like my first person perspective and im not giving it away so i can have half of my screen covered with a model i dont care about.
and since lots of killers have FPS mechanics, I especially dont want / dont care about having 3rd person. Cool that some killers have it, keep it to them.
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1st person is one of best parts of playing killer in this game.
you feel so immersed.
no way i would trade that for slight comp advantage.
wouldnt mind 1st person survivor modifier.
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@totallynotamegmain said:
that’s more of a rework, he will probably get number tweaks, but I honestly would have loved a crawler instead of another ranged killer
being ranged killer makes unknown's playstyle in that lurking horror he's described to be.
plus it's just an insane fun ability. wouldnt ever trade it for an unoriginal crawling idea community is so obsessed with.
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Havent noticed that much, but yeah, deli is very strong if people know it's in play. Luckily, that's usually not the case and they either go to unhook deli user or dont let them unhook themselves to charge the perk and it makes it rarely useable.
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@KeonLennedy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786260#Comment_3786260
I feel like to me personally the issue is slowdown in general. IMO gen slowdown and gen repair speed buffs should both be gutted and gen speeds should just be standardized and consistent so the game can be balanced around other things instead. I never run slowdown because I find it to make games extremely boring, like even if they helped me clutch a win against a super sweaty gen rush squad I didn't exactly have fun stressing in a match like that, whereas if I hadn't steamrolled a below average team with my slowdown Perks that probably would've been a more fair, chill match. But that's just how I like playing. I understand why other players feel like slowdown is a necessity. I just think it shouldn't be THE meta period.
Yes, but this is very unlikely to happen because that's how casual players can cheese a win on more skilled player (who may not be using said slowdown or not enough of it because they would be tempted to use more fun options).
That generally goes for a lot of still persistent things - if you streamlined things like that so killers play optimal regardless of how mean they intend to play, then survivors will have a very hard time as a lot of pub killers dont play optimally for various reasons.
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@KeonLennedy said:
They're bad design IMO. They're only relevant at the very top level when both sides are equal, but in most normal games, they either help a Killer win more when they're already at an advantage therefore making below average squads have no chance of a comeback and they just get 4k'd at 4-5 gens, or they're completely useless against super SWFs that rush 4 gens before a Killer can even get a single hook anyway.
The issue with pop/pain res is that they suffer from success. They implement the most healthy working formula for regression: reward killer for winning chases&getting hooks (ideally separate) which, inevitably, results in these perks being better when used with killers that exceed at doing their basic job already.
Slowdown perks that dont require you to get hooks resulted in excessive slugging.
Slowdown perks that dont require you to get downs resulted in hit&run and killers never truly committing to chases.
Slowdown perks that require killer to just kick gens to make them work resulted in killers endlessly kicking gens
Slowdown perks that dont require killer to do anything result in killers camping/tunnelling even more freely.
Slowdown perks that required killer to get a kill for them to work resulted in killers hardtunnelling a targeted person.
Current slowdown meta is the best we can get. It just works better on meta killers and remains useful in 3v1 (doesnt even become better, just remains useable).
Either you have perks that reward killer for winning and then killers inevitably start snowballing most games with them or you have perks that give killer value regardless and you have killers getting clutch wins with the perk value.
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@FixTheLegion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785945#Comment_3785945
I would add a new legion ultra rare add on called “Frenzy Slash” that makes it so every second hit with feral frenzy on the same survivor is a guaranteed instadown
??
all my addon suggestions offer big buffs and even bigger nerfs to make up for that.
your mockery is completely misplaced.
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Singularity:
Soma's family photo is ultra rare again. gives 7% haste and reduces overclock duration by 50%. (rough numbers, the idea is the same as old-old soma's photo - you get haste, but your overclock runs out way before you reach survivor so it's mainly a tool to catch up faster).
Denied requisition form is very rare. No longer makes EMPs take extra time to generate.
Iridescent Crystal shard: Biopods automatically infect any survivor within half of their their view range at 0.1 rate (same rate as when survivor is near hooked teammate, 6 seconds of being in LoS to infect). Increases camera cooldown (time between infecting/teleporting to people with cameras) by 10 seconds. - Big nerfs, mostly useless, but can make singularity way easier to play as biopods tag survivors on their own if they're careless. Biopods have normal range for manual use, but it's cut in half for automatic infection. Main usage is to pressure survivors across the map and make them spend more EMPs, however at the cost of greatly losing in ability to build up infections.
Also would switch plant fibers with hologram generator. Hologram generator (very rare) new effect - whenever you lock on or teleport to any survivor through the cameras, all survivors see the corresponding visual effect on them. - Singu's version of Freddy's / Sadako's global fake TP addon
EDIT: another iri idea:
Increases the amount of supply crates by 4. Decreases the amount of time to print EMP by 30 seconds. Removes internal camera cooldown. - An addon for crazy people. Gives survivor excessive amount of EMPs to the point survivors can mindlessly spam them. The reward? Teleports within 1.4 seconds, no cooldown for infecting people, essentially the ability to infect the whole team within seconds across the map and force survivors to pre-emptively destroy cameras. Basically permanent effect of the now patched camera tech.. Balancing stat - the amount of crates and time it takes to pick a EMP (if it proves to be not enough, there can be more crates or even less time for EMPs to be passively printed).
Xenomorph:
Acidic blood - the effect is applied upon losing crawler mode to turrets and until crawler mode is restored. - same idea as old version, but a bit more fair and easier to use as you dont have very short situational window to activate it. Also makes xenomorph lose crawler mode on purpose as a strategic move which makes survivors feel more rewarded for using turrets & gives xenomorph an option to play as m1 in certain cases or ignore turrets and dont feel as bad.
Cattle prod - Increases the amount of control stations on the map by 7. Decreases resistance to turrets by 50%. - gives xenomorph tremendous versatility and much easier access to tunnels however at the cost of becoming greatly vulnerable to turrets to the point any turret in the open burns xeno out. The idea is to encourage heavy tunnel usage even in chase.
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I'd love a minor update to xenomorph's animations.
His tunnel exiting animation is horrible, his crawler mode animation in the trial is really silly. Devs have a perfect animation in the endgame screen where he keeps the head straight and the tail is straight, but it's just not used.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785545#Comment_3785545
Turrets are meant to knock them out of power. Even just a sliver of flame should IMMEDIATELY bring him out of power. I dont complain about losing my power as plague if I get stunned. Same applies here. You get flamed = you lose power.
For some reason that just doesn't translate in BHVRS balancing. He just keeps going as if they didnt do anything, still in power.turrets are meant to be broken by the xenomorph. knocking xeno out of power is a punishment for ignoring turrets. the reward for survivors is slowing xeno down, making it hit turrets instead of survivors.
it's a pretty simple concept to understand, really.
as for your plague example, her losing her power from pallets is also a punishment to her for not respecting pallets, which pushes her in a playstyle that makes her red puke just slightly bit more fair.
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Nemesis got buffs and people decided that it's the best time to bite off the whole arm while it feeds them.
Wait till devs decide to bring xenomorph up (judging by available info and overall community feedback im seeing, it's very likely, not this year tho), all platforms will be filled with people complaining how xenomorph needs a brand new power instead of appreciating their killer being made nicer.
Im glad for Nemesis mains, though I dont think the latest buffs should've been done without them being through PTB first. Makes me kinda envious as xenomorph main, whose power's only upside at this point is hitting crouch tech at pallets and powercrept tunnels.
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@danielmaster87 said:
The reason there's no variety in survivor perks, even though there's tons of other good ones, is because the 7-8 years meta is so much stronger than everything else. And even when new stuff gets brought in and gets nerfed, it's still ridiculous. Like, Buckle Up now gives a sprint burst to the person off the ground, and doesn't cause exhaustion.
The reason there's no variety in killer perks is the opposite. They legitimately don't know what to run, because everything is so weak, so they just use the least weak thing at their disposal. They hold onto the pipe dream that gen defence will always be good. No, gen defence is not good, none of it. You're better off running chase perks, endgame perks, and Rancor. So while it might seem like the majority of what you're facing is "Ugh, more gen defence," it doesn't do anything vs good survivors.
it's not that it's stronger, but that's pretty much what most of the community has agreed upon being tolerable and relatively the most healthy.
anything new they add is either way weaker to be even considered or is strong enough to make ppl immediately realize they prefer old meta over anything especially that and, usually, rightfully so.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785519#Comment_3785519
The only person they distract are people that just picked up xeno and played him for like 10 minutes.
bruh, have you ever played xeno?
you MUST break turrets otherwise you lose power and get slowed.
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@ChuckingWong said:
Yea I mean flame turrets for some reason do nothing to him. Its a meme at this point.
they slow him down and create a distraction. incredibly good if used right.
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Never.
He might get a few balance changes sooner or later like all killers do, but rework will never happen as his power fits him completely.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785462#Comment_3785462
you look more interested in arguing semantics and nitpicking on my words. keep it going, i wont interrupt
That's just my side hobby, my primary interest is being right… I know it can be difficult to understand for new players :)
saying that you're right and being right are two different things.
first one is what trolls usually do. i think i'll do something better than wasting my time on you because your way of talking is filled with red flags like that :0 have a nice day