Thusly_Boned
Thusly_Boned
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The game isn't dying, and player counts aren't plummeting. The drops aren't a mass exodus, they're regression to the mean, which has been pretty static for years.
Are they all the same players? No, people are leaving, and people are coming in. That's just the churn that has become normal. It'd be nice if the games wrinkles got sorted and the mean grew over time, but it's not dying. It seems like every other week someone is talking about how all the survs are leaving and the game is dying, a refrain that's almost as old as the game itself. Particularly since 6.1.0.
And the yeah, the game is buggy af, but it always has been and always will be; it's build on spaghetti code. Just like it will always be imbalanced.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/434719/im-tired-of-slugging-for-no-reason
Why i being slugged less fun for you? A hook timer is 70 seconds, meaning you could sit there for a full 3.5 minutes, with slugging its 4 minutes AND you can move around.
I never understood the survivor argument that being slugged is boring. When i play survivor and get slugged its better than getting proxy camped on the hook.
I don't know about boring, but it's more aggravating to be bled out because you know the killer would get more points if they hooked, but choose to leave everyone on the deck for no discernable reason other than spite.
At least if you are on a hook you have some degree of control of how/when you exit the match (of getting the 4%). And it is marginally less boring as at least there is some interactivity via skill checks. Crawling around isn't exactly a blast.
Leaving people on the ground for four minutes is the tiniest of tiny d behavior; I always take it as:
- The killer is just being a power tripping douchenozzle
- The killer isn't confident they can down everyone more than once
I definitely think there should be a basekit UB mechanic that kicks in after a couple minutes.
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Nurse can't be meaningfully nerfed, not without changing her into completely different. Her power itself is the problem. And a ground up rebuild won't happen because it would render the thousands of hours many have put into her totally worthless.
And the reason her killrate is low is because her skill floor is relatively high and most nurses suck. And lots of new players who hear she is the strongest killer try her out thinking it'll be easy, get fed their lunch for a while and then move on. However. the ones that are really good are basically uncounterable killing machines.
I don't have a huge issue with her, as many Nurse players are bad, and while she essentially becomes a cheat code with enough experience, I don't lose any sleep about the occasional 5 minute beatdown.
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DBD is one of the few PvP games where you don't really have to be good to win.
There are a number of killer tactics that a trained monkey could use to win consistently against most teams (like running LP and flying to the first surv you see and tunneling them out, for one). Likewise, there are a number of ways an absolute potato surv can escape while their much better teammates die.
Now all that said, telling them they're bad after they win just reeks of saltiness and insecurity, even if their play was pretty bad. Just go next.
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It was fine in 2v8 because it's a casual mode, it has no place in 1v4.
It does make me think about some sort of mechanic that could serve the same purpose, but isn't a free as simply increasing gen speeds the more your teammates fall. Like a "desperation" mode where you can increase the speed at which you repair a gen as teammates die, but with a requirement, like being afflicted with Oblivious and an onslaught of skill difficult checks (as if you were actually desperately focused/rushing the repair).
But I don't think we need a catch-up mechanic that simply hands survs a bonus because the killer is doing well.
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@DancewithmeKate said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3853088#Comment_3853088
It's free value tho, killer is doing nothing to get value. Just lose generators and get your free down. Hatch is also free but it has rng part.
It's not "free" if you have to spend a perk slot on it. If the criteria is that it's "free value" if you don't have to do anything to activate the perk, like half (or more) of all perks in the game would qualify.
But spending a perk slot is a cost, and typically a cost good players aren't willing to pay (because they are confident that they can win the game before the gens get done). Survs have 16 perk slots, killers have 4, and playing the 90% of the match with only 3 perks isn't insignificant.
Hatch, otoh, is just built into the game, and requires nothing of the player for it to spawn, like anything else that is basekit.
I'm not defending NOED as a perk, but the "it's free kills" narrative is really dumb. And I don't know about other people, but I am not seeing games lost due to NOED on anything but a rare occasion, so I am not sure what the major issue is here. From my perspective, it's a perk that will occasionally allow a bad killer to salvage something from a lost match.
I don't want to sound like that person, but if NOED is consistently a thorn in your side, it might be a skill/experience issue.
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- It's petty AF
- I will locker myself most of the time anyway, lol
But seriously, jumping in a locker to avoid the tombstone mori makes sense early in the game, but if the match is all but decided, especially if you're the last surv up and he's mori-ed everyone else, it really is just a petty, pointless thing to do.
Particularly after the latest rework, and the achievement is harder to get than ever.
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I don't like NOED, and haven't run it since like 2019. But even with that being the case, I believe the following are true:
- NOED isn't a free kill. This is something people say that I've always thought was silly. Stupid, even. It's not like a surv drops dead as soon as NOED procs. You still have to get found and hit.
- Now that the totem is revealed, getting rid of it isn't a huge deal, provided your teammates don't panic and leave
- Most killers who run NOED are (in my experience) not good. I'm not saying that to be mean, but I have noticed a clear correlation between how bad the killer plays and the likelihood that they're running NOED.
I think a lot of the salt about NOED is from survs who got cocky and caught out in the endgame (and then have to live with having lost to a bad killer due to their own hubris). For me, the worse a killer is playing, the more I prepare for NOED.
And honestly, if you just play as if every killer is running NOED, it's not a big deal.
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Anything your opponent has or does is a crutch when you're a giant diaper baby who just lost. Pay it no mind.
I mean there are things I view as crutches, or hedging against what the player knows they don't do well (like killers who hard tunnel the first surv in every game), but I don't call them out, I just think it really loudly.
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It'll be nerfed, no because of unjustified whining and whinging, but because it should be. It's perfectly fine in most circumstances, but on certain killers it's totally broken, with no meaningful counterplay.
I've had a few games recently that approached OG SM three-gen levels of unfun due to TotH.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849918#Comment_3849918
Because they cling to the narrative of, "Stealth is the intended gameplay!" only when it benefits them. When Distortion was targeted for a nerf, suddenly a lot of them took up that position. But it's led to a real downgrade of the discussions on here. At least before, you could reason around a lot of gobbledegook. Now, you can't get past the starting line because of commonplace nonsense like, "Killers seeing aura is OP, full stop!" I laughed at that opinion like 2 years ago, when someone said Clown's Cigar Box was OP. Now they're the ones laughing, because they've conned people en masse into believing it. Yes, the killer should use their eyes and ears to find survivors, without the use of aura perks. But you know, that only gets you so far. If someone's wearing a dark cosmetic on MacMillan or Dead Dawg, you straight-up can't see them sometimes. If someone is running in front of you on Ormond or Eyrie, you literally can't hear them running or breathing, and that's without Iron Will/OTR. Scratch marks are never consistent, and either show up way late or stay for way too long. So sometimes the game gives them Iron Will or Lightweight for free, randomly. That's why the "use your eyes/ears" argument falls flat. In addition, others argue essentially that killers are entitled for wanting info. Yeah, I'm entitled because I can't see or hear anything when I ought to be able to, like in any other game. Way to support your hard of hearing/poor vision crowd (I'm neither, but still).
I play a lot of killer and am hard of hearing but have no issue with Distortion as it was. Mainly because the aura reading meta we are in is fact kinda out of control. A few years ago when there were only a small number of aura reading perks that saw much use, now there are tons, and some killers stack them. It's kind of a brain rot scenario where waves of new killers just depend on them, and have almost no idea how to do any tracking.
Some degree of aura reading is totally fine, but it has really proliferated over the past couple of years, to the point of absurdity, and it is continuing. You're not supposed to see survivors auras constantly, that's just silly.
And the whole "it negates a whole class of perks" is really disingenuous, being that it has stacks that can be exhausted. Anyone who has run Distortion against a Huntress, Nurse, etc. with 3+ aura perks can tell you there are plenty of matches where you get like a minute or two of value out of it, at best.
Now my opinion may be skewed because when I've run Distortion I didn't also stealth around, I played it as much (or more) for the info (quickly knowing which aura perks the killer was running) as for the actual effect.
As for the OP's mention of Counterforce, it's almost necessary right now, but it'll fade back into the background once the Thrill buff is reverted.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3846113#Comment_3846113
You don't need a perfect team though. A good team can keep up with a good killer.
Yeah, even in solo queue with no comms all you need to be cooking with gas is 3 good teammates. Not god-tier teammates, just good.
Of course, the problem is that MMR rarely gives that to you. But the "you need to be on Seal Team 6 to win" stuff is laughable.
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I agree that the old version of the cage mechanic was better. In most cases it's not a real problem, but some of these killers have figured out where the cages will spawn and how to proxy camp them.
And because MMR is essentially nonexistent in 2v8, you have a lot of teammates who have no idea how to deal with this.
I'd much rather the cage move after a few seconds of the killer being near than the current iteration. As it is, it just leads to the same sort of boring crap we see in 1v4.
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@jesterkind said:
A lot of newer perks lately have either been just flat out good, or designed in such a way that a simple buff can make them flat out good, so I don't think that's a good reason to call for fewer perks.
I would be interested in seeing fewer chapters, though, which would have a similar effect. More time to work on things that aren't the next few upcoming chapters would be a good thing for the game overall, though I don't see the business overlords signing off on it any time soon, sadly.
Either way would be fine with me; I just feel like we're getting content shoveled at us on a set cadence but with little regard for how good it is and it just becomes clutter.
I would rather pay the same amount of money for less content that is of high quality than twice as much content that is just kind of mid. So while recent perks have been decent (or have the potential to be), I'd still rather see them cut back a bit. And really, it takes them years in some cases to address perks, so a perk having potential doesn't really mean much. Just make fewer perks and really tune them well.
But I do think there are too many perks (especially to a new player), but you can't just delete the trash ones, so throttling the influx of new ones somehow seems like the best solution.
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@SuspiciousBrownie said:
The perks only never get used because people want to constantly sweat and use meta every single time. Nobody wants to play for fun, they only want to win. The vast majority of perks are useful but not meta, so people won't use them.
People hate invocation perks because frankly they aren't that great but they are definitely useful to a degree and a fun risk to take. People say Boon Circle is trash when it clearly isn't, it's just not overpowered anymore so people don't like it.
Shoulder the Burden is great, Treacherous Crows (combine with Eyes of Bellmont for 4 second aura reads) is useful and fun but has a huge downside, Clean Break is literally goated and is a free gen rush perk.
Exultation upgrades your kit AND recharges it which is good, Eyes of Belmont is good as well especially for fog wise and troubleshooter and Moment of Glory is bad imo but still useable although I think clean break is better and the former should be changed.
In the grand scheme of things if you go strictly meta, then yes most perks are dead. On the other hand if you just play for fun then almost every single perk is useable.
I think it's well beyond just people being slaves to the meta at this point; there are just so many perks, many of them non-viable (not only not good, but not even fun and/or interesting to a casual player). And going forward, it's only going to get worse.
I don't lean on the same perks all the time, but there are probably no more than 25 or so on each side that I will realistically use. Maybe 30 (so maybe 60 out of almost 300). Most perks are just filler that people have to sift through to find the useful ones. And there are so many that it's pretty evident that even the devs miss how they play off of each other, and potentially broken interactions.
But more than anything else, you can tell that so many of them are just phoned in in order to give each new character three perks.
I would just rather see a couple well thought out perks than getting 6-9 new ones every 3 months. I love variety, but there is a limit and quality > quantity.
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Yeah, like a store will often honor the too-low price of an item that was mislabeled, they should honor the 20 days since the expectation was set.
Own it, lol
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I'm feeling fatigue with some aspects of the event, mostly I am sick to death of the same killers match in and match out. Like I would be thrilled if Wraith were killswitched for like a year after this.
But I also love how simple, relaxed, and non-sweaty (relatively) the mode is, and I'll miss it when it is gone.
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@Sngfun said:
Sound like a controller issue honestly. I mean, should we lower a killer's skill ceiling because controllers suck?
- It's not a "skill" issue, it's an exploit that is limited to one platform
- The majority of DbD players are on console, so considering its unfairness to them is reasonable
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@GeneralV said:
I miss it for the visuals and aesthetic, but the actual gameplay was never really good.
First it was extremely survivor sided, and now it is extremely killer sided. This map has never been balanced.
Reverting it back to one of its previous iterations could be a good first step, but the map would need further changes.
I think the old (OG) version was hideous in addition to being the most survivor sided map in the game. Every time I see old footage I am struck by just how bad it looked, and addition to having ptsd flashbacks to the gameplay.
The new version, imo, is aesthetically great, but hella killer sided. So I guess on balance, I'd take the new version if I had to choose.
Now I actually think it wasn't really all that imbalanced before the latest changes, where they made the houses much weaker for survs. Before, I think it had a realistic sort of vibe where they houses were strong for survs, but the center of the map was strong for the killer.
Now the whole map is strong for the killer. I think if they just reverted the most recent changes, I personally wouldn't have any issues with the map.
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I think some weird stuff is going on, some really generous hits.
I was playing a match earlier where I twice got grabbed at a vault after I hit the ground on the other side (I checked the killer's ping and it was like 60ms, so probably not that), which was really bizarre looking. Had never seen that before; hits yes, but grabs?
Got chainsawed by a Billy from the opposite side of a dropped pallet, without the pallet breaking.
And a number of other similar instances; even my wife who was watching was like "how the f- does that happen?" on multiple occasions. Lots of weird hits, dsync issues, and odd graphical stuff in recent weeks, and it seems to be getting worse.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843435#Comment_3843435
I like to say that camping, tunneling, and slugging are situational. I generally don't like any of them if I'm playing survivor and try to avoid them as killer, but there's a time and a place.
I've done all of them myself too, but sparingly and it's usually very rare that I feel it's justified. Almost always late or end game, never out the gate, for example.
I generally feel like people who say "tunneling is necessary" are overusing it and probably go into a match with that as the plan. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. I feel like it's a measure of game sense and player skill to know when those strategies are actually needed, and not just resort to using them all the time.
Totally agree. People who say tunneling is necessary are above all things, lazy.
I mean that the fallacy that it is necessary is used like a mantra by people who can't be bothered to actually assess each match as it is developing, or lack that analytical skills to do so. And of course, also a simple justification for taking the easiest route to a win every time without any other consideration.
And when one always employs the laziest method to do anything, doing it any other way feels like a ton of work, so they just revert to the easy way.
As for me, I simply don't care enough about "winning" to just indiscriminately crap all over other players. I'd much rather misread a team and get a 2 or 3K than absolutely curbstomp some poor potatoes because I sold myself on the lie that every team is so good I needed to play that way.
Even at "high level" (which almost no one who thinks they are at actually is), hard tunneling is only necessary in a fraction of matches. And it does without saying that "necessary" is a relative thing, assuming your family is being held hostage and will be executed if you don't 4K, which is how some people play.
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Yeah, I think when there are only a gen or two left and most of the survs are alive, people just wait for someone else to finish things, and nothing gets done. I think people just assume that since there are so many survs, someone else will take care of it.
One such match I died in I spectated and saw two survs just waiting by the exit gate with seven gens done, but no gens were even in progress. Everyone was just hiding and waiting for someone else to finish the gen.
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2v8 is by far the easiest time I've had as a solo queue survivor. Every once in a while I'll end up with 7 absolute potatoes on my team, or go up against a pair of really good killers, but I escape at least 2/3 of the time.
On the other hand, I haven't played as killer this go around, because quite frankly I don't want to wait in a lobby for 15 minutes just to play a 10 minute match where I watch 4-6 survs escape (which is how most of the games I play in end up).
This mode has some issues, but being killer sided isn't one of them.
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Nurse remains broken because the only way to effectively unbreak her is by totally scrapping her power and replacing it with something entirely different.
And that is a lot of work, and would leave all Nurse mains kind of disenfranchised. So we're stuck with her, for better or worse.
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Outside of matches against Billy/Blight/Spirit combos, it's fun, easy, and light. I would say I'm escaping in 60-70% of the matches I am in.
In addition to the design, I think that is mostly down to a lot of people who don't normally player killer are playing the role with a friend (and just not that good).
All that said, I wouldn't want the devs to add more mechanics than they did for this iteration, as I think the simplicity is the feature here. It's hard to take it seriously, and that's a nice departure from the 1v4.
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I know it's inevitable, but the last thing we need is for people to start trying to "optimize" strats to win in 2v8. Taking 1v4 seriously is silly, taking this mode seriously is absurd.
It's total chaos, and that is what makes it fun. Like some killer teams stick together all match and try to "combo" survs, which isn't effective at all when it comes to "winning" the game, but I bet it's fun as hell for a while. And I think that sort of thing is the intent here.
And as totally grab bag as the matchmaking is, getting all competitive in 2v8 just seems like an exercise in total futility.
Now it sucks that killers have to wait forever to get into one of these goofy-ass matches, and I hope they find some way to fix that, but if you're sweating in these matches you're doing it wrong.
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Yeah, this is not fun so far. They should make it so only one high mobility killer can be in each match. Having two of Billy/Blight/Spirit in a single match is too much.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839150#Comment_3839150
This would only be reasonable if
a) The Totems cannot be used for Pentimento and
b) All other Boons would be significantly buffed (with old CoH as well)
With the state of boons atm, I don't think it's necessary.
But if boons were buffed, agreed on the no Pentimento bit, but I think it would be justified even if the only strong boon was OG CoH. OG CoH was problematic, as setting up multiple healing zones around the map that could be re-lit ad infinitum was not okay.I even think that if you make breaking the boon totem take a little bit longer and you could justify making shattered hope basekit without significantly buffing boons.
But again, all this is theoretical. As is, boons are little more than an afterthought.
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@TWS001 said:
The average age of gamers is probably going up and up as time goes on. I'm 45 and started in the mid 80s. Probably a lot of people my age and higher that have grown up with it and won't stop. It helps me relax when I'm not working, being a dad or playing sport.
For sure. Later Gen X was the first generation to really grow up on video games. I'm also in that range, and my whole life I've been working, reading, playing sports, or gaming.
I also think people playing games until they die is going to be the norm going forward. Technology is becoming embedded in all phases of life, and games are no different.
Not only that, but I think outside of certain games that require really quick fast twitch (which I do not consider DBD to be), "older" gamers aren't an worse than the under 25 set. My heyday when it comes to fighting games is over, but I feel like I can hang with most people in just about any other genre of game.
And when talking about DBD specifically, not only is it not technically demanding, but I'm not sure how you have a game with a bunch of the icons of 70's and 80's horror and not expect a bunch of middle aged people to be playing it, lol.
And like anything else, there's a trade off in that what you lose in some areas, you gain in experience (call it general game sense).
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@MechWarrior3 said:
Im 31 and I still play. I dont care <3
I read somewhere a few years ago that the average age for gamers (at least people who when surveyed listed gaming as one of their primary hobbies) was 31, and that number was likely to go up.
Years and years ago it wasn't as "acceptable" for adults to game, but as times have changed and games gotten more diverse and nuanced, that has changed considerably.
Plus, as others have mentioned, gaming actually helps the brain as we age. I know I have no intention of ever stopping.
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@GeneralV said:
Circle of Healing can only have the same level of strength it originally had if killers get Shattered Hope basekit. Then it is fair.
The perk was never the problem. The Boon mechanic around it was the problem.
Yeah, boons should only have that kind of power if they can be permanently broken, like hexes. Making shattered hope basekit was my preferred solution to the CoH problem before they nerfed it.
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Sorry, no can do. If the result of the match is still in doubt (at all) and I see you trying to self-sacrifice, you're coming off that hook. You're obviously not respecting your teammates, so I am not going to respect your wishes there. And you're not entitled to a free pass, if you want out that badly, eat your penalty and leave the team a bot.
I'm not really sure why this is so hard for people to wrap their brains around - all kinds of crap happens in game, we all know it, and if you're not prepared to play the hand you're dealt, don't queue up. Don't. Do. It.
Play something else (preferably single player) and stop acting like your time is so much more valuable than everyone else's.
And everyone has at some point been the reason someone else wanted to bail on a match. We all should remember that when considering bailing.
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@SuspiciousBrownie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832054#Comment_3832054
Even with that she still has one of the lowest kill rates in the game so she definitely needs some help.
Nurse also has a low kill rate, and she sure as hell doesn't need help. Like the Nurse, Huntress' kill rate seems low because she's a commonly used killer with a high skill ceiling. Bad Huntresses are awful and good ones are an absolute menace.
I remember when she got a full number of iri hatchets, and that isn't something we need to go back to.
She's not S tier, but she does not need buffs.
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CoB should be buffed, it's literally less effective at regression than a surv missing a skill check at this point. Certainly not to its old strength, but to non-joke status.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831881#Comment_3831881
I really don’t care if the survivors don’t get an escape count for getting the trap door if you don’t do all the gens you should never be able to escape.
Better a hatch escape than to have an endless standoff. A trained monkey can hide almost indefinitely, and I'd rather just take my W and go next than deal with that nonsense. 4K isn't that important, and there needs to be some mechanism to prevent an hour long stalemate.
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I have noticed an uptick in slugging, but not a major one.
What I have noticed with the finisher mori is that killers almost never let the last surv go anymore. Both when I am the last one, and when I spectate.
@Royval said:
blowing it out of proportion if they wanna stop slugging for 4k remove the trap door.
Or just do like many do and set 4k or 3K plus hatch are your win condition, because it absolutely is. Just like a hatch escape isn't a win as a surv.
I don't have the time nor inclination to scour the map for the last surv, and I don't understand people who do, frankly.
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I would agree that the primary reason that kill rates are high is that most matches have at least one bad surv in it, but that's down to MMR being trash.
When I play, I see all sorts, including what can only be brand new players, in my matches. And I have about 5K hours. I've faced entire teams of them as killer, and it makes me sad to know that people just breaking into the game are getting checked right into the meat grinder. And I have been on the other end of that; sometimes you're the hammer, others you are the nail.
But balanced matches are rare, and it takes only one outlier the blow up an entire match. I also think four good survs will beat an equally good killer more often than not, but that's a rarity, as there's always at least one potato in the bag.
Even watching streamers with 10K+ hours you see absolute potatoes in their matches as well (though some of those streamers like to delude themselves into believing that they face only golden gods).
People DCing and self-sacrificing on hook only exacerbates the problem of trash matchmaking. It exasperating because it's hard enough as it is in solo queue without angry diaper babies deciding they want to take their ball and go home at the first sign of adversity.
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@MikeyMyers666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831816#Comment_3831816
I agree. Easy solution is to allow survivors to pick themselves up after a period of time. Maybe 90 seconds. That would pretty much solve it.
Yeah, I think that if you've been on the floor for 90-120 seconds, odds are the killer doesn't intend to pick you up, and at that point you should be able to pick yourself up. Maybe with a a bit of haste/endurance if the killer is just sitting on you.
I would further augment this by stipulating that multiple survs must be down, so one surv can't game it by just crawling off to Narnia (or punishing one bad actor abusing Boil Over, etc.).
This won't punish killers for tactical slugging, but will all but prevent four person bleedout nonsense, for which there is no good reason.
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I agree that a lot of survivor behavior is primarily responsible for hated killer "tactics", but I would say that much more about camping (proxy camping) than slugging.
Choosing not to slug is much easier than just vacating the vicinity of the hook when there are survs all around like they are entitled to you leaving. It's just a bridge further than not slugging, imo, and slugging is much more of a decision than a logical reaction (like proxy camping when the survs all descend on the hook area).
I only slug in a few scenarios:
- Hook sabo
- Abuse of Boil Over/Flip Flop/etc.
- The killer's power kind of demands it (Twins, Oni)
And there are plenty of reasons to hook instead, as has been pointed out. Beyond that, any movement toward a slugging meta will lead to an anti-slugging meta from the survs, and the anti-slugging will win that war easily. Even just 1-2 of the newly buffed WGLF will ruin any attempt to slug all survs, even in solo queue (if the survs are decent).
Over the past couple of weeks, every game I have been a part of where the killer attempted to put all four of us on the ground has ended in a killer loss.
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I'll say what I've been saying for years: If you've been playing this game for any length of time, you know what each match can bring, and if you queue up to play, play the damned game.
If the game just isn't fun, or if you're not prepared to deal with whatever you load into, just play something else. If you can stand the state of the game and it makes you miserable, step away.
Yeah, you bought the game and you have the right to play as you want, but none of this takes place in a vacuum, and we all have four others to consider in every match.
And sadly it seems like the longer I play, the lower the bar to justify quitting gets.
Don't get me wrong, I really want to quit a lot of matches, but so long as at least one other live player is still in the game trying to advance things, so will I.
So yeah, I fully support finding some sort of punitive measure to combat doing away with yourself on hook.
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@Seraphor said:
As a mirror myers player, I can unequivocally say that ALL bots have Wallhacks during chase. As soon as the chase drops they go back to being clueless.
It's not a per bot effect, it's a situational response to the conditions in the match.
Additionally, every bot with a flashlight will eventually stand still and attempt to blind you mid chase.
One of the most wild experiences I ever had in DbD was with a bot in a very good chained tile in endgame that also happened to have Hope and resilience. All the other survs were dead, but it took me forever to down them. I basically 1v1ed this wall hacking bot for 20 minutes. I was playing Huntress and the damned bot wouldn't even let me get line of sight; every counter was perfect. And being 4.4 versus a surv with haste, I couldn't even keep chase going long enough to get bloodlust.
No joke, no live player has come anywhere close causing a stalemate like that in the five years I've been playing. If I didn't know better I'd have thought it was not just wall hacking but reading my button presses.
Eventually I just left and then caught them at the gate, but it was wild.
And yet, it seems like all the bots I get on my team fold like a lawn chair, lol.
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Aura reading is out of control, and I fear the problem is that now so many killer players (especially new ones) will become so conditioned to using them, that they'll riot if they're nerfed.
Of course I'm an old fart who cut my teeth actually tracking survs and making predictions, but it is tempting to throw some of these perks on. But I retrain myself to only one per build most of the time. Back in the day there were really only 2-3 aura perks you saw with any regularity, and aside from old OoO, they were easy enough to counter if you were paying attention.
Now you you have to assume most killers are constantly seeing your aura (even if they aren't). It's absurd.
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I mean it's not rocket science here.
- Some killers would be dodged almost every time, and killers like SM would never get a match. Ever. Lobby shopping would be out of control, to the point that it would effectively kill some (maybe most) killers off.
- Unlike survs, killers are mostly unique, and if you knew what killer you were going to face with certainty, you could really make their lives miserable with loadouts catered to them. This is waaaaay beyond being able to see the survs' items in lobby.
I can see an argument for making both sides blind, but there is no good argument to show the killer in lobby.
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Flashlight saves used to be the bane of my DbD existence, but OhTofu (as others have, I am sure) made a great video on how to counter flashlights that I watched in my early days in DBD and it changed my life, lol.
It's not just staring into a wall, but positioning, situational awareness, and how to fool the survs into putting themselves out of position. I still have flashlight saves work against me, but like 99% of those that do are coordinated teams. Most solo survs just can't pull it off unless you screw up somehow.
And yeah, sometimes you'll get blinded from a seemingly impossible angle by what must be a nuclear powered flashlight with the "face of god" add on (or they're cheating), but those are pretty rare.
Now I do run Lightborn sometimes (rarely), but only when I see four flashlights in the lobby, or otherwise get a vibe that beamer shenanigans might be afoot (like multiple TTVs).
But overall I don't find them to be a huge nuisance. As others have said, if these goobers want to follow chase around trolling for a save they'll almost certainly crap the bed on rather than work on gens, I am all for it.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827203#Comment_3827203
So many survivors escaped my grasp via the void. There are many ways to get some distance, its not as easy as last year with that busted instant teleports, but the void itself is extremely convoluted and its easy to loose line of sight there. Also, there is that window vault at the top that catapults survivors past all that rickity bridges, while the killer falls just straight down. So while you are right that the Void Crystals are the best thing here, evasion via void is still pretty strong.
Yeah, I've jumped out of the jaws of death by entering the void numerous times. If the portals are opened early in the match and you can sort out where they all are, it's essentially a TP for survs, and makes evasion/misdirection much easier.
Not being able to enter it when holding certain items is a pretty big oversight.
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Yeah, those window hits will never not feel awful as a surv. Especially when you've hit the ground and taken a step or two when it registers.
But 90% of the time it looks fine from the killer side, so they have no idea, just like survs don't know when they just got totally bailed out by auto aim. But I have landed a few of those latency/vault hits as a killer where I could see how bad it was, and all I could do was laugh at how dirty it was.
Not sure they're really any worse than other latency hits, it's that they're just so obvious there. Kind of like when a Huntress hatchet whizzes past you 3 meters to the side and it registers as a hit, or when Wesker grabs you from around the corner. What can you do?
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As has been explained already, semi-unique killer MMR exists (which is why getting your killer adept when that killer first drops is always easiest).
I think that for new killers or killers you're playing for the first time, your MMR should be 70% of the average of all your other played killers, not your top one.
I mean it should be fairly obvious why; a basic M1/looping skillset is fairly interchangeable for most killers, but not all. There are some killers who are wildly different, or who have limitations to offset their powers (if you've even seen a baby nurse try to play her like other killers, you know what I am talking about).
And vice versa, if you are super strong/experienced with one of the more unique killers, you're going to have a hard time at even 70% of your MMR for that killer with a more basic killer. Or if you are used to killers with anti-loop and try one with nothing in that toolbox.
I mean I play most of the killers (save for one or two), but I certainly am not nearly as good with some as others. I think more people would play more killers if the system were a little more forgiving.
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To me, someone who plays not just to win (everyone wants to win, of course), but as if their very life and honor and family name depend on efficiently winning every match.
As opposed to someone who balances winning and having fun (i.e. not treating it like a job in which your pay and job security are metrics based, and optimum performance is everything).
DBD is such a messy, imbalanced game that treating so seriously is just kind of silly.
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Qualifier - I don't think there are any truly OP perks right now, but there are annoying ones for sure.
Franklin's - It's not even so much that I lose the item in the moment, but that I lose it permanently if I die or can't find it.
Knockout - I play exclusively solo queue; enough said there
Lethal Pursuer - Yes, it burns all of its value at the start, but on super high mobility killers, it's pretty cheap. I've been in matches where the killer was on me within 5-10 seconds of the match starting. Even worse since many of the maps were reduced in size.
On the other side:
Boil Over - not a big deal on PC, but I play 90% on PS5, and it sucks so much more on console. Not nearly as rage inducing as it used to be (when RPD library was a thing), but annoying.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822686#Comment_3822686
Slugging is no more a dick move than leaving your teammate on the hook to commit to a generator.
Leaving your teammate on a hook for an extra 20-30 seconds to finish a gen isn't a dick move unless they lose a hook state because of it.
In fact, rushing immediately to the hook as soon as a teammate is thrown on (and expecting to be unhooked immediately and trying to self-unhook) is in my top 5 list of worst mistakes bad survs commonly make. I have seen countless games thrown by teammates who rush for saves, or flip out because everyone didn't come running in their first 10 seconds on the hook.
In most scenarios a killer slugging can only be construed as a dick move because it sure as hell isn't effective. Leaving the surv on the ground as opposed to hooking is usually the wrong move for a few reasons:
- It gives the other survs more time to work on/finish another objective. Hooking forces survs to jump off other stuff more frequently. I've got four minutes instead of 70 seconds? Imma finish that gen, thanks killer.
- It doesn't burn a hook state, which aside from time itself is the most valuable commodity in the game
- There are multiple perks that may allow them to get up on their own
Since this uptick on slugging happen, I have seen it cost killers far more wins than it got them. And even in some of the killer slugging wins I've seen, the matches went on far longer than they would have had they just hooked. I had one match just today where the killer DC'ed because they were trying so very hard to slug us all, but just couldn't keep us all on the ground, a game they could have won had they just hooked.
I think some killer players are more slugging out of protest of recent surv buffs than they are actually trying to win, and just annoying people.