Thr_ust
Thr_ust
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- Thr_ust
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This gotta be one of the worst tier lists I’ve seen.
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This would kill any form of build diversity on all nurses at all levels of skill . Unless you enjoy playing against 4 slowdown perks. This is a bad idea.
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Probably for the same reason They nerfed the bleach bottle. Clown is just too OP in chase.
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@Tryharder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2975903#Comment_2975903
Artist is not hard tbh, you can snipe people or shotgun the birds. Clown can’t throw 3 bottles at once that can go through the entire map.
The fact that you think shotgunning the birds is a viable strat in any way just shows how oblivious you are to how artist works.
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@RisingTron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2975377#Comment_2975377
He was "unfun" because there was almost nothing you could do against him. If you got caught in an area without a pallet you were basically dead and even WITH a pallet his lunge would hit you through it before you could even drop it. He did nothing but hit and run and even with Spine Chill + Sprint Burst there wasn't anything you could really do. On top of him basically being hug tech blight BEFORE hug tech blight and swinging around every loop. Yeah, he was "unfun."
They made him more fun by nerfing him, making him less miserable to play against. Sorry to the Wraith mains ig.
So to address your critiques
- there is not a single killer in the game that can be countered if a survivor is out in the open with no resources. That’s not how the game works.
- Hits through pallets have been almost completely fixed. If you were to go down to his super lunge at a pallet now. Then it was deserved.
- Like I said In my post, hit and run hasn’t been a viable choice for a LONG time and even if wraith got buffed it still wouldn’t be.
- I don’t spend enough time around here to know what the Hug tech is. But I’m assuming you mean uncloaking when he was close enough to breathe down your neck, and to that I say, it was on you if he was able to get that close, his snarl has always been extremely noticeable if you know you’re against a wraith.
- if a wraith was “swinging around every loop” then they’re probably bad at wraith, because being that predictable loses you games.
And as a side note. I think you fail to understand the weaknesses wraith has always had if you genuinely thought players couldn’t do anything. Vaulting a pallet over and over so he’s forced to uncloak to break it has always worked, vaulting a window over and over because you aren’t in chase when he’s cloaked has always worked. While more situational flashlights and flashbangs to make him back off have always worked. And abusing the fact that most wraiths respect pallets when cloaked because of the super long stun has always worked. I can accept that some people found him annoying. But to imply he couldn’t be countered is simply wrong.
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@White_Owl said:
I don't think the nerf was too harsh (but still... ouch), but they definetly panic-reacted to his increased lethality, despite them saying they wouldn't repeat Freddy's mistake. My theory is that people weren't accustomed yet to Wraith but him being a noob stomper by default could make it too hard for newer people.
I’d definitely say they went too far. Sure he’s faster now by default but his chase power is worse than addon reliant wraith. Which is just absurd.
@RisingTron said:
He was extremely unfun to go against. On top of the fact that whenever there's a better killer, EVERYONE and their mother latches onto them. Spirit, Freddy, Wraith, Blight, Legion. It's insane.
I don’t mean any offense but I’ve never understood the “he wasn’t fun” argument. At least in regards to this. Saying he’s unfun implies they changed something about him to make him more fun. They didn’t, they just made him weaker and easier to beat. That’s not how you address something that players find “unfun”
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@Chadku said:
Wee bit OP.
Going from 1.25s speed after uncloaking to 1.00s speed and keeping basekit Windstorm´s slower uncloaking was a 20% nerf to his lunge.
It really just feels so unpleasant now. The only time it was worse was when the update first came out and the lunge was bugged.
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@BenOfMilam said:
imo, Wraith is pretty close to unplayable without chase perks. M1 is just not viable in 2022. I run Spirit Fury + Enduring on him since you're going to be eating a lot of stuns as a basic M1 killer. I also run Starstruck to get giga value from stealth hits.
Taking away his super lunge was a not so good move, imo. Being able to cloak + uncloak midchase to get a big lunge was a big time investment and very counterable. If Wraith is ringing his bell mid chase, just camp pallet or sneak away from the loop.
Edit:
If you miss "Le Epic Big Lunge," I humbly direct you to Spirit, Myers, and the perk Coup De Grace : )
Yeah the super lunge is what made Wraith so appealing to me. I’ve tried Coup a couple times and it’s not bad but it just doesn’t feel the same y’know?
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@AnnoyingNarrator said:
One of the most annoying parts of DBD design is the fact that survivor teams are, on average, bad. This makes killers that are weak but have a couple of strengths that are good against solo q seem very powerful when they are not.
Wraith is a good example of this. Against a competent team, his lack of chase power is devastating. However since, most survivors don't know how to loop correctly (I don't blame them for this, looping is very hard to learn) this lack of chase power does not really come up.
Wraith did not get nerfed because he was powerful, he got nerfed because the average survivor team could not deal with him. It also did not help that all of the freddy mains who just abused the lack of bt moved over to wraith for their camping and tunneling needs.
I genuinely feel that Wraith wouldn’t have gotten nerfed if it weren’t for ex-Freddy players tanking his reputation. And while it’s painful to admit it you are probably right that he got nerfed because of bad players. It’s just so annoying that they’d nerf a killer that took years to be remotely viable.
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I thought his base kit was fine. He had problematic addons (All seeing blood especially) that were overtuned due to the fact one slot always had to be windstorm for so long. But ultimately yes when compared to the rest of the roster, his base kit was just on the higher end of the middle of the pack.
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@Emeal said:
Not all Killers have a chase Power, Wraith has some good power regardless.
Late game when there are few pallets, Wraith is a beast.
I don’t think he’s the worst in the game. He’s still who I play in the majority of my games. I just can’t help but compare him to what he was and be kinda bummed out.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789243#Comment_2789243
Never seen so many ever before lol, I assumed it was bugged as iv had many use that addon but god damn
Nah it’s wild but it’s not bugged. I’ve personally seen it happen multiple times. Usually it happens when I walk through my own chains since the game counts that as environment.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789235#Comment_2789235
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789228#Comment_2789228
I thought that addon only added 1 chain when 1 broke via an object?
He did have it but I was pretty much in the open and just got swamped with chains (none being his attack) and it took a good 5 odd seconds to remove them all lol
1 chain spawns after an environmental break as basekit. The addon makes multiple spawn.
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Did he have that purple addon that makes additional chains spawn when they’re broken on the environment.
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If you outplay a Bubba he WILL take it personally.
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Even though this was a change that should’ve been made between PTB and live. I’ll give credit where it’s due, because this is a bette change than what I expected.
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@BenihimeWrath said:
In fairness, and feel free to disagree with me about this, but if a player (killer OR survivor) commit their entire build to doing something, they should have a high likelihood of doing that thing. For example, if they are running Boil Over, Unbreakable, No Mither, Soul Guard they SHOULD be practically impossible to slug. The same if a killer uses Ruin, Undying, Pain Resonance, Corrupt Intervention they SHOULD make it very difficult to finish gens.
Unfortunately the buff that Boil Over got is too much, and they probably knew that, but at the same time we cannot change the meta without putting powerful things in it TO change it.
It’s not just anti slug though. It’s also anti pick up, it creates a lose-lose situation.
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@SomberNokk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785228#Comment_2785228
You often dont know how to read between the lines, huh? Maybe "working as intended" but unfortunately everything surrounding the perk such as map design makes it unhealthy.
He’s a bait account. Not worth entertaining him.
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3 minimum take it or leave it.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785421#Comment_2785421
No, I get your point.
I just don't think your analogy holds any water - at best, it's just whataboutism.
The differences are:
- There are multiple ways to counter NOED. Not all of these involve perks.
- NOED doesn't allow the killer to trap all the survivors in the game.
There isn't really an analogous killer perk to the new Boil Over. It's like...imagine No Way Out, but it lasted 10 minutes.
I can agree boil over is different from anything we’ve seen before. I don’t like noed but I can fully agree counters to it exist. Again my issue with it is that I do not want that type of counter perk mindset to become the standard. First it was just noed, now that mindset is spreading to boil over for some. I don’t want this to become the standard response people give to problematic things in the game. Because while people like you and me are able/willing to differentiate between these two perks and any others there are without a doubt those who are not.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785353#Comment_2785353
The issue isn't 'can it be countered?' (although RPD with further hook offerings - even Iron Grasp+Agitation do not counter this).
The issue is that players shouldn't be forced to dedicate literally half their perks to countering one thing that may or may not occur. This is why boon stacking was removed.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785377#Comment_2785377
Whataboutism means you concede the original point.
But - here's the difference.
Let's say NOED is totally broken and allows the killer to win easier. Okay.
BO allows survivors to basically trap the killer in the game.
One is imbalanced, one is a tool to allow griefing.
Imagine if killers had a perk that stopped survivors from leaving the exit gates unless they had Red Herring and Empathy equipped. That's basically the scenario you are talking about here.
i think you misunderstood the point I was making. When I say it’s a slippery slope I mean the exact same thing you just said in that if you continue down that path you’ll have 4 perks that only exist to counter the other perks people are using which will become stale quickly. And I brought up noed as an example of where this being X to counter Y mentality is already present. I don’t think the perks themselves are similar but the statement “use iron grasp agitation to counter boil over” is completely similar to “bring small game to counter noed”
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@El_Gingero said:
They aren’t going to kill switch it because although there are some issues with maps, from their perspective the mechanics are working as intended and they didn’t put in the work only to disable it right after launch.
I agree some maps are stupid and it can be annoying to put up with, but in most cases you can just slug them and carry on as normal.
I use Boil Over with no Mither so that won’t work on me, but most people don’t do that :x
While you are correct the amount of ppl purely using it for abuse is low. When ppl are using it for abuse they will typically build an entire build around it. So something like no mither, unbreakable, soul guard, boil over and another dude using exponential is not uncommon in these abuse situations specifically.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785353#Comment_2785353
It's not just countering perks. BT and DS have been nearly mandatory for a long time to counter tunneling. Tunneling is definitely not fun, but it's part of the game. Not saying that there aren't some pretty egregious maps though.
Yeah but like as an example let’s say Noed for example. Most ppl agree the perk is unhealthy even if it’s not OP. But when ppl bring it up others say “do bones” and when ppl bring up solo queue a common response is “well use small game” and I don’t want more situations like that to occur.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785365#Comment_2785365
Its easier to revert / change boil over to do something else.
If we use the kill switch on this, it would open up a floodgate of people asking to kill switch stuff they don’t like
I do think most people who argue for the purpose of actually presenting opinions and not trolling are capable of seeing what sets Boil Over apart from other perks currently in the game. Maybe I think too much of the community tho.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785342#Comment_2785342
It wasn't meant directly for you. It's my standing argument to everyone frustrated by BO.
Bringing perks to counter other perks is a slippery slope.
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@thrawn3054 said:
So run Iron Grasp and Agitation. Perks exist to counter your opponent/fill in for your weaknesses.
I do most of the time, for reasons unrelated to boil over. But even tho it doesn’t affect me personally as much I’m still able to see the flaws and feel frustrated for the lack of action.
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@apathyinc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785298#Comment_2785298
Went down the stairs, out to the lobby area and got the hook, it wasn't that far. It's also possible to drop the survivor from your shoulder to the ground below preventing the 25% loss, then go for the hook.
I’d assume the survivor had to mess up in some capacity to pull that off but still congrats. I might also test the dropping off ledges thing with some of my friends later.
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@bm33 said:
Boil Over is working as intended so I understand not using the killswitch on it.
The problem is RPD. Before the Boil Over buff it already had hook issues that should've been addressed, Boil Over buff has just made those issues worse. Ideally they should killswitch the map until they fix the hook issues. Unfortunately they've needed to disable that map multiple times since release - I think that mixed with it being a licensed map is why they are not using the killswitch even though they should. At the very least they should disable the offering so players can't send themselves to the map.
I do agree it’s mostly are RPD issue. I don’t care too much what they have to end up disabling to get this thing in line. It’s the lack of ANYTHING that annoys me.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785269#Comment_2785269
I doubt it’s intended but it also doesn’t impact kill rates significantly which is all the devs care about
That reasoning does seem awful enough to be something BHVR would do. No offense.
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@apathyinc said:
The patch has been out a week and I've had 1 survivor try to abuse the RPD Boil Over thing, and I was still able to hook them right outside the library. All the other uses I've seen have been fair play, making Boil Over a useful perk but not OP by any means. This isn't a priority, it's an overreaction to a 1 time gimmick.
The frequency of unfair interactions should have no impact when discussing how balanced something is. And while I am curious how you managed to pull off a hook we also cannot make decisions based on the experience of only a handful of people.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
When did they say they were “working” on it?
Last I heard was they were monitoring it along with DMS.
Two very different things.
I was referring to changes in general. Did I phrase it wrong in my post?
edit: oh yeah I messed up didn’t I.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785266#Comment_2785266
they probably won’t, and they will likely change it.
If they have intentions to change it then why the delay. We’ve known the perk was gonna do exactly what it’s doing now since the PTB.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785261#Comment_2785261
How is it impossible? They will still die either way
You can’t hook them. And they’re gonna be up in a matter of seconds with an anti slug build. I don’t see boil over as holding the game hostage but I fail to see how it’s use on RPD could be the intended use of it.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785256#Comment_2785256
Your not invincible. It’s dumb, but what they want of BO is what’s happening; nothing is mechanically broken; just poor map design
if you can’t make it to a hook and they got anti slug perks. Especially with exponential, you might as well be invincible. I genuinely want to hope that BHVR doesn’t expect you to bleed people out for 10 minutes and call it good balance.
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@Phasmamain said:
But nothing is mechanically broken
It’s not broken in terms of the perk doing exactly what it says it is going to do. But it is broken in terms of the perk creating impossible situations.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785246#Comment_2785246
They are, should something need a kill switch, BO definitely needs to be changed, but it’s working just as intended, a drop from high enough gives 25% wiggle progress, now if it gave 50% or something, than I’d by all means have a different take on the subject.
The intended purpose in terms of what is written is being met. But as low as my expectations for BHVR are I very much doubt that invincible spots are intentional.
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@GillyBeannn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785246#Comment_2785246
They used it for Haddonfield.
Could’ve sworn that’s because they’re re-working it.
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@Tr1nity said:
this is why the devs shouldn’t have let the community know about a kill switch.
They shouldn’t have even added it if they aren’t gonna use it.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
Killer mains: "Perk being abused, killswitch!"
Yeah literally. How is that a bad thing.
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@tippy2k2 said:
So a four man bully squad running Boil Over, Soul Guard, Tenacious, and Boon Exponential isn't game breaking because while it might take a hour of you knocking someone down, waiting for them to get up with exponential, having to chase them again for (at least) eight seconds in order to knock them down again and having to repeat the process multiple times ISN'T taking the game hostage?
Like...I suppose you're technically right in that the game will eventually end as long as you're willing to do this for a good twenty plus minutes PER survivor...
Does BHVR not realize how utterly ridiculous this sounds or do they realize it, they just don't really care?
I am convinced it’s just an ego thing at this point. They know if they back down now it’s openly admitting their players know more about the game than they do despite all the statistics they keep under lock and key. And it’s clear with what happened with the twitch shirts that the devs aren’t exactly humble.
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I don’t think anyone truly WANTS bloodlust to be in the game. Bloodlust is a necessary evil due to flaws in map design. It’s a bandaid fix plain and simple. I’m sure if the maps were actually fixed the majority of players would be fine with bloodlust being removed.
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@Tiufal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785028#Comment_2785028
Sure. Always just bait if its true and you cant argue against it. Same procedure as always.
Nah it’s bait when you intentionally make your argument awful in an attempt to rile people up.
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@Tiufal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784989#Comment_2784989
The result is the same. The killer wont get hooks.
Bad bait.
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@Tiufal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784929#Comment_2784929
And with respawning hooks survs can still prevent hooking with sabotage. Sabo/Breakout is still in this game, nobody is asking for killswitching it. The same goes for Boil Over and map offerings. Its not abuse. Its a strategy to max utilize the perk. And you can still play around.
the difference between a sabo build and boil over is one requires teamwork and at least one other survivor to get off gens in order for it to work. Where with boil over the other players don’t have to do a single thing for the downed person to wiggle off.
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It’s absolutely massive, finding gens is a pain even if you know what you’re doing, pallets are either so useless they could not exist and you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference or are so strong that they’re borderline god pallets. The map is so completely unbalanced and yet it’s such an awful experience for both sides that even bully squads will rarely choose it. The only killers that actually have fun on this map are wraith and stealth Myers.
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As of right now I think it is over the top. Even if there are situations where it’ll be useless having a perk capable of creating impossible situations will never be ok. Also I don’t think the map specific argument holds any weight when you take into account that map offerings exist.
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@Mandy said:
We are continuing to monitor the situation with both perks - I am aware that certain maps are more of an issue than others with Boil Over in particular and it's something that has been brought up with the team.
Why was it not brought up before the update went live when multiple people who played the PTB had dozens of examples of Boil Over creating impossible situations.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2774947#Comment_2774947
It really wouldn't. It'd hard mandate everyone to run the busted stuff in order to have a chance and the entire game experience would just become a mess of escalating bullshit.
Ok but hear me out. We give plague permanent corrupt purge.
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I’ve been of the opinion for a very long time that when you have a game like this where the map you go to has both a direct and extremely large impact on whether the match is balanced or not. Giving people the ability to choose a specific map is completely broken.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Funny that you complained a few hours ago about all Survivors running the same Perks. And now they are running Boil Over and it is not correct either.
You cannot win with Killer players.
Bad bait. But hey it worked.