Tarvesh
Tarvesh
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Because the devs don't want survivors to be frustrated when they make a mistake. So they buffed DS to make it so they can have a free minute to play without the big bad killer trying to play the game with you included.
A 5 second stun is there to punish the killer for outplaying you in a chase, or to reward you for screwing up.
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@Peanits said:
Golly, that's a lot of data. I gotta' commend you for taking the time to note all of that down, it must take a lot of time. It's very interesting to read through and see the different outcomes based on what's used.
Wait.... Do you guys NOT consider data based on what's used? Because you say things like Dead hard, Decisive Strike, Adrenaline, Unbreakable, Sprint Burst and all the other meta perks aren't in 80% of all matches. But right here we glean data that it is used in almost 70% of all matches from rank 15 to 1, and in 90% of games in red ranks.
That's MORE than Ruin across all ranks AND in red ranks. But you're planning on buffing more survivors perks and announced essential nerfs to killer slowdown perks when slowdown is precisely what killers need (especially in the early game).
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039057#Comment_1039057
In terms of usage rate alone, it would be the closest, although it is still significantly lower.
But you guys are telling us that out of 16 perks in any given game (remember, four survivors bringing 4 perks each), 80% of games have NO Dead Hard, Decisive Strike, Sprint Burst, Adrenaline, or Unbreakable?
I would love to see the proof of that.
You can't say it doesn't count if every survivor doesn't run it. So long as the killer has to go up against it, it's still in the game. So saying that 1 survivor out of 4 in a game didn't bring one of the meta perks is NOT equivalent to a killer not bringing ruin when the other 3 are likely stacked with them.
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It's been listening to the devs recently justify their decisions based on NEW survivor frustration or even veteran survivor rustration while announcing intents to nerf killer perks and their synergies.
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I think once two survivors get on a gen, good/great skill checks shouldn't grant bonus progression. That way you still get the speed bonus, but not the bonus from multiple survivors hitting checks to make the progression jump.
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@nick_larking said:
damn, almost 3persons with DS per match, not bad for a survivor DLC/Shrine perk.
But according to the devs, DS, BT, DH, Unbreakable, and Adrenaline don't show up in 80% of games.
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@nerdguy5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1028768#Comment_1028768
Oh poor guy 😥 2 toolboxes is just to much for me. How dare I have to play better.... and y’all wanna complain about survivors DCing but killers dodging is ok? 😂
A true sign of maturity, right here. Empathic to the distress of others and mature enough to consider a differing opinion without resorting to insults or mockery.
Truly, this is an example of what game balance discussions should look like.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1028774#Comment_1028774
Ahm... As a RANK 1 killer trapper main and rank 2 survivor... No man... This childish attitude doesn't solve anything, the posts should be about "maps need reworks", "specific killers need buffs", "pipping sistem needs to be adressed", and not about "let's make each other life's misserable" threads. This is not the propper way to attract attention, cause if we as killers get heard this way, how do you think survivors will then complain about somehting?
Hate promotes hate
It's sort fo arrogant of you to call someone childish who knows that they won't have fun against a specific team set-up so they choose not to play against it. It's not your decision as to what people should and shouldn't have to put up with.
People have their own standards about what they'll play against. Just because they're not the same as yours doesn't make them childish. People don't want the frustration of going up against SWF, or multiple toolboxes which make fast gens even faster.
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Devs need to get it through their heads that buildings with two open doors can't have multiple windows. It turns the thing into a free escape god loop.
It takes no brains to exploit them.
What's worse, though, is that the Wretched Shop will actually have AT LEAST one safe pallet around it, but can have up to three. THREE safe pallets surrounding an infinite, and all of those are a quick few steps from a jungle gym or TL wall combo that you can run to get back to the safe pallets and infinite.
"Working on it" needs to be "we're turning these off till we fix them". We'd have a smaller map pool, but at least it wouldn't be brain dead maps.
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@Spooky13 said:
Well, devs have said they are planning on reworking more survivor sided maps, so hopefully Haddonfield or Coldwind finally gets changed soon.
They did say that. this is true. But a map that is so bad that the survivors don't bylame you for DCing on seriously needs to take priority and be turned off till it's balanced.
Hell, I just realized today that Lery's rework looks amazing but was giving an ungodly amount of new safe pallet spawns. The made it look amazing, but made it functionally trash.
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@Almo said:
I am confident given the data we have that Pig does not need a buff. As stated before, there are a few weird things to fix, but not specifically to make her more powerful.
We can't go into huge detail about the information we have on this because it becomes too large a discussion.
Recall I am a Pig main... I promise I am not trying to keep her down just for the hell of it. :D
Weird things like not being able to pick her traps back up (like Trapper can, or get them back after use like Hag)?
The end game nullifying her traps?
Roaring BEFORE she charges to warn the survivors of it?
Hers being the only stealth that ISN'T instant (even thought Ghostface can also crouch AND go stealth at the same time like she can AND peak around corners, while ALSO having an insta-down)?
What about how survivors get to ignore her traps with the free escape hatch?
I find it absolutely hilarious how you balance the ENTIRE game's primary band-aid fix around the frustration of NEW survivor players, cite that NOED isn't a problem if you cleanse it (like old Ruin but apparently that's a selective solution based on new survivor frustration levels), then have the unmitigated gall to point to high level players as proof that there isn't as much of a problem with a character's balance.
Pig is a little of every other type of killer but all of their weaknesses and none of their strengths. And it saddens me to hear you defend her current state after consistent nerfs or just pretending she doesn't exist. I'll link a video to some ideas I had for her improvement. Maybe you can consider them as a rework since you somehow don't see the problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d331jMmxoFU&t=17s -
OP is correct. If the killer took the time to down someone else and hook them, DS should deactivate since you weren't tunneled.
It should also deactivate if you do anything other move or heal.
Get on a gen? You clearly feel like you're safe enough away from the killer to do this so you no longer need the protection/immunity that DS gives you.
Hop in a locker? You obviously feel like hiding will help you avoid the killer so you don't need the protection/immunity DS gives you.
Search a chest? You seem to think you're a safe enough distance away that the killer won't find you and interrupt you so you don't need the protection/immunity that DS gives you.
Allowing it to stay as it is punishes killlers who don't tunnel and simply kill efficiently, and rewards survivors for doing literally nothing but getting hooked and getting outplayed after the hook.
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They realized after the fuckery they did with Ruin that there would be literally zero killers in the game for hours at a time after all the DC's, so they decided not to implement it. XD
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Face camping and tunneling killers (can't even blame them) while survivors get all gens done and escape. BHVR has truly ######### their own game in one easy step.
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Tell them to get used to it now that the main balancer perk is gone.
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@Peanits said:
Do devs think that chasing survivors is not a challenge anymore?
I'm not sure where that was mentioned, but no, that's not the case at all. The hooks on Lery's were previously very abundant, so they were toned down slightly. Now they'll be more in line with other maps.
Survivors still have it rough, though. I mean, hooks were so close, people used ruin, and there are STILL kilelrs in the game. When will this be addressed so survivors can be happy?
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@EZ5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1020396#Comment_1020396
But they aren't. Because you the killer have the option to open said gate as well, meaning you can easily just start the EGC yourself. If you didn't have that ability, then I'd agree with you, but it's literally impossible to hold the game hostage at endgame now since both sides can open gates and use/close hatch.
But they are. Because you as a killer have other things to do. If they could open the gate and chose not to, they're holding the game ostage while you are busy trying to get down and hooks. You act as if the killer has nothing else to do.
You're once again arguing that the killer should just leave the survivors alone and LITERALLY OPEN THE DOOR FOR THEM to let them escape, or it's the killer holding the game hostage instead.
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@EZ5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1017642#Comment_1017642
I'm going by the dev's definition. For a survivor to hold the game hostage, you'd have to open the exit gates, and just hide or run infintes. You can't do either as the EGC will force the game to end. Neither of which is possible to do thanks to the timer
And yet, we're talking about just 99'ing the gate. So in that way, they're holding the game hostage when they could have simply ended it.
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@EZ5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1016230#Comment_1016230
Again, not holding the game hostage, stop trying to rewrite a definition. Holding the game hostage would be the hatch standoff, intentionally blocking survivors in the basement, opening the doors and refusing the leave while hiding in the map (no longer applicable due to the EGC), or defending a 3 gen so intensely the game goes on for more than a half hour.
So, by your definition, only the killer can hold the game hostage? By doing what they're supposed to do? XD
3-gen: "You're holding the game hostage by protecting your generators. You should just walk away and let us do them so we're no longer hostage." That's pretty stupid to say.
Blocking Survivors in the Basement: "You're holding the game hostage by trying to stop us from leaving the basement and hooking us here. You should just walk away and let us get out for free with no resistance." Also pretty stupid.
Opening the doors and refusing to leave: Standard survivor practice. So survivors do currently hold the game hostage with the endgame. You at least admit that.
But otherwsie you're saying that the killer should just let survivors get away with doing gens if the last three are close together, and get out of the basement without a fight.... because it holds the game hostage?
Now who's trying to redefine something.
If a survivor 99's a gate then goes back into the map to do anything, they're holding the game hostage. They could, by your definition, simply taken the fraction of a second longer to open the gate and leave without the killer stopping them (because it's what they're supposed to do). But instead they prolong the game by keeping the gate closed. Using your logic, I've proven that it is holding the game hostage by your definition.
I rewrote nothing and played the logic along your lines. You're welcome.
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@EZ5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1015318#Comment_1015318
That's not what holding the game hostage is. Holding the game hostage would be like Bahroo staying behind after the gates were open just to keep running the same infinite until the killer dc'd
It is holding the game hostage if they had the option to end it (by opening the gate and leaving), and instead delaying the end so that they can continue going for saves or bullying the killer.
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@kreeper124 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1015232#Comment_1015232
2 minutes instead of 30 sounds pretty good to me
it's 2 minutes if the killer isn't around anyone.
4 if they are. And if they want to try and guarantee kills with survivors staying in the game to try and rescue hooked survivors or just to farm survival points and bully the killer.
Either way, the game is still held hostage.
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@EZ5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1011334#Comment_1011334
The EGC is literally designed so the game can't be held hostage at the end game, it's one of the very few actually good changes the devs have made with a high enough impact.
Except it instead gives a specific amount of time that the game can be held hostage.
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@Almo said:
We're aware of the problem and working on it. The fix turned out to be more complex than expected, so it's not slated for the imminent release. As usual, I can't comment on when it will be fixed, but we will definitely fix it.
You're record so far will more likely be that the fix will make it easier for survivors to do this since it's frustrating for new survivors to get get by the killer when trying to unhook someone.
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The irony being that these read like BHVR patch notes.
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@Adeloo Poor solo survivor then. Guarantee you the 3-man SWF doesn't care how loarge of an advantage they have. Whining about the 1 solo getting the debuff when not acknowledging the massive debuff to the 1 killer with any number of SWF is just biased.
We don't have to worry about that, though. BHVR wants solos to be as close to a SWF team as possible. So the bias in their design is already there.
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If OoO is disabled, then the first survivor can't have it.
I would also go further and slow gen repair speeds down by 5% for every survivor currently team up with another. You get the huge advantage of communications, then you'll need them with the possibility of a 20% gen progression slow down.
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Upset.
Upset at its execution.
Upset at the clearly biased and profit-focused reasoning behind it.
Upset at its implementation while ignoring the absolutely oldest and core issues with the game.
The bias is so heavy that the game might just be called Dead by the end of the year if they startthrowing the killers some very large bones or dedicate themselves to overhauling game balance.
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Uh oh! They used they keyword to guarantee an Immediate nuke-level Nerf. He's "frustrating" to play against.
His nerf will now be on the level on Ruin. Get to it devs. survivors aren't happy.
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They do read through suggestions posts and they do respond. Though from what I've seen, most responses are slightly defensive in nature.
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Sorry RE fans, but it's time for the big man to join his fellow horror brethren in the THE horror survival game. Jason just walks/forces his way through walls. It's kind of a signature. It. Is. Time.
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@WRussoW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/987059#Comment_987059
I feel like I shouldn't have posted my idea like that, people really only see the first two paragraphs and ignore the rest.
People would still focus on the idea of survivors wasting time to go back and grab items during end game. It's just dragging out the match, which is what end game was supposed to prevent.
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Yeah. No.
Killers are already forced to wait for when the survivors want to leave. If anything, the End Game Timer needs to be a quarter of what it currently is with no slow down. They opened the doors, time for the game to be over. Not time for the survivors to drag out more time.
If anything, I'd be all for a 30 second timer. Open the gates and leave in 30 seconds or die. Spend more than 5 seconds within 10 yeards of the exit gate and be sacrificed automatically.
Get out or die.
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If they want it to say a Hex, it needs to ruin literally everything. it should auto regress generators, slow down healing, cleansing, sabotaging, and searching speeds. Make its strength be worthy of a Hex totem.
You could take away the Hex part and instead have it automatically regress generators at a speed based on how many totems (dull or Hex) are still up. Perhaps .5% per totem. This would increase its initial power, but still make so that cleansing totems will still effect it so that survivors can eventually be rid of it, and it can keep its traditional ability of effecting the game for a longer period of time.
I think this would still honor the perk's ability to slow down the start of the game and give more power to survivors to make it weaker over time.
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@S_Panda said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982464#Comment_982464
"surge because it doesn't require you to kick a gen, just like the new hex:ruin".
You can misquote yourself is you'd like but screenshots are awesome.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982440#Comment_982440
Not really. Because then you can ask, why only Iron Will removes grounds of pain, but not other Perks. Or why do I have to be injured for the effect of "This is not happening", when nearly every other Perk does not require to be injured?
Perks provide something - Ruin provides automatic Regression. Other Perks dont, because they do other stuff.
Like S_Panda, you're confusing "This perks does this, why don't others?" With "All of these perks have the same requirement, why does only one work with ne w Ruin and the others don't since they have the same trigger?"
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@S_Panda said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982440#Comment_982440
I'm mentioning surge because it doesn't require you to kick a gen, just like the new hex:ruin does. Or is your point only to a single perk of your choice at a time?
New Ruin doesn't require that you kick a gen. Not sure where you're getting that.
You're confusing a perk that has an effect on downing a survivor that affects gens, with perks that only have effects if you kick gens. These do not equate.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
You are comparing Killer abilities with Perks. This does not really work.
Consistency in design is consistency in design. It works.
@S_Panda said:
With Surge you aren't required to kick the gen, they should make it consistent.
I'm wondering what your point is because I didn't mention Surge since it doesn't require you to kick a gen.
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@Peanits said:
It could be interesting. If it does, surely that would encourage survivors to slow down and do totems to prevent that from happening.
It's almost like new survivors could have done that with Ruin too... Huh... It's almost as if you selectively use your logic.
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@Saitamfed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/977082#Comment_977082
BHVR wants to close the gap between solos and swf not making them stronger, they want solos to have more info. Kindred as an example was buffed at the point that if you run it then you'll notice if the killer is camping if you're not the hooked one. That info doesn't really makes them stronger and it's the same info that a SWF would have anyway.
Solo survivors having more info does make them stronger. Any time you give them more info to use, they will use it to outplay the killer. This makes them stronger. Closing the gap in a solo survivors play to the level of a SWF team is literally making them stronger.
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@No_Cluie_Louis said:
We all know that against a decent team, it is nearly impossible to do well without ruin as killer. However, this just goes to show how ruin is probably the strongest perk in the game. Even more annoyingly, its a hex perk, which means its luck wether your game goes well as it depends on if survivors end up finding ruin early or not.
Without everyone using ruin after the nerf, game statistics will show how killers are struggling more against the speed at which survivors complete generators, and so (hopefully) appropriate changes can be made so that its not as easy for survivors to 'gen rush'. This way, it will be as if we still have the improved chance of success that ruin gave us, but without relying on a truly unreliable perk, that is primarily luck based.
TLDR: Updates will (hopefully) slow down gen rush as killers start to do worse without ruin, so that we no longer rely on a hex perk to do well
Except that you're forgetting that BHVR wants solo survivors to be as strong as a full SWF team, or as close to that as possible. So they will in no way bring down survivor effectiveness regardless of what the data tells them.
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@Peanits said:
The worst that comes to mind is combining it with Surveillance. Any time a generator is being worked on, I would know. The instant you get off it, I'd know. Normally cleansing Ruin is the only way to counter that, so removing the hex aspect means that the killer always knows where you are and has no counter.
But new Ruin activating Surveillance isn't consistent. And all of a sudden you're big into consistency.
Without new Ruin, Surveillance doesn't start automatically start tracking generators if survivors stop working on them. You have to KICK the generator to activate it.
But new Ruin doesn't care about that. But it DOES care that you need to kick gens fro PGTW, Overcharge, and any other perk that requires you to kick a gen.
So it seems to me that you Devs have a decision to make. Stop Surveillance from working with new Ruin, or make ALL gen kick perks work with it.
Cause remember, you nerfed Legion for "consistency". So be consistent.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/972538#Comment_972538
It doesn't combo with Surge at the moment. This is something that's being debated.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/972565#Comment_972565
It's 0.25 charge per second, not %. A gen is 80 charges, so it takes (at normal speed) 80 sec to repair it, as normal repair rate is 1 charge per sec.
So if you repair a gen for 10 seconds, and leave it to Ruin for 20 seconds, it will be at zero again. Ordinarily after a kick it would take 40 seconds to regress all the way.
So run this easily cleansed nerfed version of a perk that will prevent you from using perks like Pop Goes The Weasel, Surveillance, and Overcharge so that your kicks actually regress things faster than this perk, or give you bonuses for kicking the generator.
But wait! There's more! You actually USED TO BE ABLE TO RUN THESE PERKS TOGETHER FOR SOLID GEN DEFENSE COMBOS!
But new survivors who had no skill or anything else felt bad. So all of our killer players have to suffer for it.
We have no plans on actually fixing maps, fixing gen times, or fixing killers (unless it's to nerf them). Our priority is new players who feel bad about mean ol' red skill checks.
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New survivors didn't like red skill checks.... So your response was to ######### the entire killer community. A bold strategy...
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/972271#Comment_972271
Because Ruin + Surveillance = Super Discordance
This doesn't work because with the new Ruin you can't kick the generator, which is what triggers Surveillance.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/972262#Comment_972262
That's exactly the type of comment that doesn't help our communication with the dev team and by consequence doesn't add anything to make the game better.
What? Truthful comments aren't helpful? I'm intrigued. Which sort of comments are helpful?
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/969386#Comment_969386
Hey mr Dev, good evening :)
I'm not gonna get into the merit of it being OP in the late game or not, because I haven't tested the perk obviously. But did you guys talk about why Ruin was getting used that much in red ranks at all? Like, it seems weird to change something 80% of players use without tinkering with the reasons why it's used in the first place, especially considering it's less useful against very good survivors.
It's easier for them to make things easier for survivors then balance the core issues the game has.
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@Almo said:
New Ruin is extremely powerful late game. It must be a Hex Perk, or it would be OP as hell.
It will never get to the end game to be powerful BECAUSE it's a Hex.
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Nope. Still a totem. It can be cleansed away.
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These are the changes I suggested for Pig changes to bring her more in line with the movies and buff her at the same time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d331jMmxoFU&list=PLJL0InSAvePOXw19kGlUasPywa32PpFJI&index=8