Talmeer
Talmeer
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- Talmeer
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Oh, please no. They should not listen to the community.
They need to listen to parts of the community who knows about what they talk.
You just need to read the first page of this forum, to learn why I make here a distinction. The worst patches of dbd have been came out because they have listen to the community and never ask the people that used the perks/killers/abilities most and have true main something.
Aka. they should start to listen, to the "experts" and stop doing what the next crywave says in the forums about whatever topic.
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@Lordofweed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2133693#Comment_2133693
I know ._. There are so many Killers i want to try but well, if i play them the first few times and without meta perks, while getting matched with bullies, its very frustrating so i always have to stick with Nurse if i want to get some BP and tbh Nurse is way too sweaty to play her like 1 hour straight or 2 hours.
So in order to farm Bloodpoints to get other Killers' teachable Perks, i have to hard spam Nurse and that ruins the whole point of having fun for me as i dont want to be matches with red ranks and sweat like them.
Seems like i havent found my true main Killer Character yet but i also dont want to grind out the whole stuff against bullies.
Well, you can watch on YouTube tutorial videos to many builds and killers, or ask here in the forums for help.
I am there not a big help, since I have never really watch on my bps (I have more see them as things that "automatically come in - sooner or later" and play most of the time just to have fun and chill.
The only thing I have ever done in dbd on purpose (what winning and ranks and so on matters) was to de-rank on purpose, because staying 1-2 weeks in the red ranks was just too sweatie for me :).
Better going down a bit into green, yellow and purple and messing around with the survivors was my slogan :D
Just pick your killers, you like to try and ask here in the forums for advice, or watch some videos on YouTube, hm? Maybe it works out at the end, nobody can't know it now...
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2133675#Comment_2133675
nah, people already complain how annoying his power is.
I'm pretty sure devs will gut him sooner or later.
I think the same. To read the forums tells me everything I need to know.
Imo, the reasons that something is "unfun", or "boring", or "annoying" etc. are the most stupid ones, to nerf something.
I mean, it is a multiplayer game, with a ton of content. It would be naive to think that everything, that one enjoys would also everyone else enjoy and vice versa.
There is always someone who dislikes something and always someone who likes something and that is the reason why I have the opinion, that every nerf, based on this is unhealthy for the game, since it robs part of the playerbase their fun and the game attracts less people, because the game can't offer future "X" anymore, to a potential customer.
On this think the crybabys of course never and that is to be expected, but that bhvr also sometimes takes that as a reason to nerf something is totally incomprehensible for me.
Imo, things should only be changed for a real reason and then not on a way that the feeling for this specific thing gets lost (and with that I mean everything, not just killers).
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@Lordofweed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2132729#Comment_2132729
You mean you enjoy whats left of the Power (after the base kit nerf).
For me another Problem (which is a bit OT) as Killer was the fact that the Kits of the Killers are kinda limited in playstyle if you can say so. So you have to play in a certain style which is so boring after a long period of time, so i started switching and tried other Killers if i like playing them. I enjoyed playing twins as they are so versatile and they offer a well rounded kit.
I had Freddy all the time on like lvl 3, because even he is/was considered to be OP, i never had fun playing as Freddy because his playstyle is so dull. Its like Bubba... Man, who the hell can enjoy bubba for longer than 10 Matches in a row? 😂
Survivors are not bound to a Base Kit or something like that in terms of having special abilitys, so i can play whoever i want and can still be Top Tier...except for bill i guess lmao. The fact that i can build my very own Survivor and Gameplay Style is game changing for me.
As Killer im always bound to my kit. I have to playlike the way, that is set from the devs and cant break out of that pattern to play like i wanted to. That may sound weird because Killers are all about their Abilitys, but as i mentioned before: After playing a Killer for 100 or even 500h+ i cant imagine having fun anymore.
I would like to know how you keep your Killers Kit & Playstyle fresh and enjoyable...?
By me was it just exactly what I wanted and it had maybe also help that I could personally relate to my main.
I know, that is not much explaination, but I don't know what to say more. If you really like something, you stick to it and if it goes away, for whatever reason, nothing else can compare for you to that.
So that you have a bit about of data from me: I have play to my high times around 4-10 matches each day, depending on the time I had, or also my mood, until the killer got reworked and beginning with shortly after release of this killer chapter.
90% or more of that time was with this one killer. The rest was with mostly Meyers, Clown, or Trapper and in rar cases Survivor. I have for sure sometimes also play other killers, but that is not comparable to my main, or the other killers I mentioned.
You see... If you have found what you like, you have no problem to waste with this character your time, imo :)
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@Profezia said:
Am I the only person who uses this as one of criterias of choosing a main killer? Like, ever since they gave Nurse double CD, I just can't main any killer that even potentially seems to be a target for a major/semi-major nerfs as practice showed post-nerf killers almost always feel like a pale shadow of its former self.
You get used to something, push it to its limits, actually get good with it and then in one of patchnotes you see your main killer being handicapped and gutted by another stupid cooldown mechanic or receiving horrible addon pass or getting straight nerf and that's it. Even if you play that killer again, even if you play well, you just keep comparing them to their pre-nerf version only to come to the conclusion it's pointless to try regardless of your results. It just feels worse.
Killer nerfs are really much different than perk nerfs.
That is exactly why I see a new killer not as an option for me.
I was pretty good with the pre rework Legion, without addons and exploits (and yes that needed skill, it has a reason why so many have never play the Legion on this way). Wouldn't say it was easy, but after some time I was very good with it.
Then the rework patch got released. Besides my problems with this patch to this day, I have also see this as a lesson towards other killers.
The last chapter I had bought, was the Ghostface chapter and I was thinking to make him to my main, but there is just no point. Sooner or later, he will be nerfed, as every killer about what survivors complain and he will not be nerfed on a way you know it from other companies, -> no, he will be nerfed so much on his basekit that it just makes no sense for getting good with him.
Sooner or later, he will be completely played differntly anyways, because bhvr goes into panic mode. So why the hassle?
Better is to lean back and to look sometimes if the game has improvet, or not. Needless to say, it hasn't in the important parts and if you try to say this to a dev, it is a pain in the a** to get from them a comment in the first place and secondly, they mostly just confirm your worst fears.
... So yeah... Leaning back and waiting for better times, or a other game that goes forward where bhvr is too afraid, are the only options someone is left with, if he plans to main something for a long time and not always with those thoughts in mind.
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I tried to be fair and nice to survivors as a killer main in the forums.... What should I say? It didn't worked out and I drowned into thoughtless 1-liner comments of the survivors until I accepted that there is a "us vs. them mentality" and the only way to stand against those mindless comments, was to pick a side.
I bet the same counts also for survivor mains tbh. Can't imagine that they haven't saw the same, just vice versa.
If the people really like to see a change in this behavior by me and many other users, then they should stay away from those stupid 1-liners and also learn to accept others opinions, especially if killer mains talk about killer things, or survivor mains talk about survivor things, since mains know usually their side best.
If someone is not ok with this and prefers to go still down this road - it is ok for me, since - as said already before - I have pick my side.
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Your logic has an error, Thread starter.
It are the newb players who call for nerfs all day. The good ones don't do it, they just do their counterplay. Saw it by myself more as I can count. So... To go to rank20 and just ruin the fun for everyone would be self harming, on the long run... Because you know... The nerf crying.
TL:DR: Your frustation doesn't pay of thread starter :).
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-Not being the clicky, clicky flashlight guy.
That would be all from my side.*
But... The worst on survivors is for me to see on the forums.
-The constant cry for nerfs of killers (that are also sooner or later get most of the time done by bhvr then),
-The total disrepect of them towards killers, not important of what they are saying, or what their motivations are,
-That they only think on their fun and most of them not a second also on the killers fun,
Is the reason why I doubt that dbd will ever develop in a healthy state for both sides.
I understand every game, not important if single or multiplayer game so, that it has different characters for different type of players. Much like in tv shows, or movies (it is not a secret that the different characters in tv shows and movies are there to make differernt type of people watch the movie - aka more people).
If you take 1 of those characters out, the danger is that you take away the reason for a part of the playerbase, to play this game and to have fun (in relation to dbd).
While this potentially could also be said about survivors, so is the impact on survivors usually smaller, because usually not their basekit gets nerfed. Just their perks and so can the guys who want to be stealthy, still being stealthy, the guys who want to run all day long in circles, still doing their looping and so on.
That is not the case by killers, because they usually getting nerfed on their basekit and so comes the problem from above more often up. I would be happy if survivors would finally consider this and as a consequence, also think more on the killer side.
Edit: *I have nothing against a normal use of flashlights, but "click, click, click, click, click, click...." Whoa, that had always kill me as I played dbd regularly, back in the day.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2113037#Comment_2113037
cmon man you know the rule
killer good survivor bad
That would be a cocky comment, if... If not exactly happened that in the past :) Comon you should know that killer players got banned in the past, exactly for this, while we in the meantime magically never saw the same on the survivor side.
That said, it would be better here without that "us vs. them". On the other hand, you can do what you want, -> at the end of the day, you will be sitting on one of those sides. Some random guy in those forums always makes sure that this happens.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2109494#Comment_2109494
Alternatively:
-Complaints are heavy about thing
-Thing gets changed in response
-People who liked old thing are now vocal about their disapproval of the change
-People see these new complaints and now are convinced that the old thing was changed for no reason
Touché :).
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2109392#Comment_2109392
Back then, the complaints heavily outmatched the praise.
It's always the same by such patches:
-Something gets changed.
-Complaints starting to get heavy.
-People leaving if the changes getting not undone.
-Then some guys come up and say something like "everybody likes the new XYZ, curse the old one!".
-New players coming in and say the same, because they didn't know it better.
And that makes it harder and harder to explain the whys, while in the meantime, the game suffers because it got 1 step more simplified.
TL:DR I prefer to believe the old Freddy mains, but I don't mean that offensive.
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Even I had never play the new Freddy and only know the old one and never mained either of them, I feel with you guys. It's always sad if the devs decide to simplify things, how they did it with Freddy and many other things, just because they think some people will like it.
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@PeaceNGrease said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2095494#Comment_2095494
Actually, the way they are describing this I think it would be less effective than playing Legion as he is played now (with the added benefit of giving him SOME agency when he needs to actually go for a down)
Legion already loses scratch marks in Feral, so it's a complete lie to say he can't be countered out of Feral frenzy if he were to regain this trait. His momentum can work against h and a well timed juke will trigger a miss and long stun (as he works now) so I think giving him some incentive to re-stab the same survivor (for some benefit, whether that be reduced mend time or some other debuff. Hell, maybe even a buff of some kind instead for Legion) wouldn't be a big deal, especially since you can no longer moonwalk chase survivors to get cheesy downs (which was the only real issue of old legion as far as being unfair to play against goes)
Right now, the counterplay to legion is simply spread out, rush gens when you see the mend bar under someone, and if he finds you first and rushes, just tank the hit so you can get back to rushing gens while he ######### off into the sunset. Good legions who aren't getting any aura triggers after a hit will just try to cancel out and chase you anyway, but they have to deal with the stun that's usually enough time to get to a loop if you're aren't on the dead zone, meaning he gets meager reward in getting an initial hit from frenzy. Giving him back some incentive to stab someone multiple times not only makes a lot more sense from a character and lore perspective (Unless I missed the part about commiting multiple hit and runs) but it would make his power more useful than simply being a melee attack with a minor inconvenience and a decent tracker mechanic attached.
You got it to 100%. Makes me after this discussion more happy as it should maybe :).
If we tear it down it would really be just:
-That nothing changes for the survivors, besides that they getting stabbed now more often as before (depending on the playstyle of the Legion player - he can of course still ignore everything and just m1 everyone on the traditional way).
-Give some Legion players finally a reason to use Feral Frenzy more often.
-Give some Legion their fun back, almost without consequences, because all of the control mechanism of bhvr over the Legion would still be intact.
Because nothing else will change. It is that simple.
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@StibbityStabbity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2098091#Comment_2098091
I think it's fairly obvious we won't see any major rework of Legions power, so most Legion players only ever ask for QoL changes anymore. You still see a few people that ask for radically different reworks, but MOST people agree that simply removing his power penalty for M1 and reducing his fatigue based on the amount of targets hit would be enough to make him a solid mid-tier, which would be fine. Imagine penalizing a Killer for trying to be lethal...
As it currently stands, however, his performance tends to be below-average, with SOME scenarios cropping up that boosts him, though these are few and far between.
I hope I read it one day on the patch notes. Even I am not sure if bhvr ever touches again the fatigue after frenzy, because it seems to be their major control mechanism for the Legion. Sadly. But maybe I am wrong with that. Every change would be appreciated, I assume.
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@Angelicus23 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2097641#Comment_2097641
You can't tell me a 23 minutes video of the day 1 of Legion's PTB from a killer main youtuber is a counterplay, you still didnt specify what it is, people just pressed find match with the new killer selected without reading the power description beforehand. Try again.
Really? sighs
What you have seen there was the Legion without op addons. Aka. that was the Legion outside of the 2 exploits and outside of using powerful addons.
Every guy who has experience with the Legion without those things will tell you the same, if he is honest too you.
Do you really think that all those attention catching streamers would have not shown a addon-less Legion without addons, if a op playstyle with it would have been possible? o_O Sure they would have. That you can believe. Even bhvr itself has multiple times said that the pre-rework Legion was weak, especially also after the rework. They haven't said this with Franks Mixtape in mind, or the exploits, -they have said it with the basekit in mind.
And what should I tell you more?
I have wrote my idea here multiple times down. Imo, the idea is easy to understand if someone really reads it and know the Legion of today and if you ask me for counterplay to the Legion of the past, or to the Legion today - then the video helps you to the Legion of the past and if you want to, I can even write something to the Legion of today, but it will be a long posting and since you haven't even understand my idea, it is questionable if you would read a even longer posting, since then we speak not anymore from just an idea.
Btw. where is your evidence that the Legion was op without addons? Where are the videos? Anyways, it was just a rhetoric question, since you can't give me, what not exist.
You mean I should then ask one more time? *head on equipped*
I only visit these forums now and then anyway, since I was part of the "leaving-dbd-wave-after-the-Legion-rework", which was to see on Steam before you ask.
Sometimes I just like to know if dbd has gone more open towards new playerbases (as always the same), aka. with the necessary new concepts for it, or not. If yes and they would put something like my idea (or also others) in the game then yes. If not, then no and I stay again like perhaps others away from DBD.
Almost every idea I have read here on the forums where good, besides the ones that let the Legion change through their members, imo. Because then I fear that swf's have a too easy play with the Legion, since they just need to warn their mates via a mic. if the Legion switches to a other mate, or depending on the idea - to a survivor.
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@Dragonshensi said:
There’s a reason why anytime I encounter a Legion they never use their ability. They just go straight for the M1. The ability is pointless except for quick travel across the map lol
Sort of... If you are lucky you can still find people sticking together against the Legion, or if you for whatever reason can't find any survivor it still has its usage. But besides such rar situations I have also never use frenzy with the new Legion.
You just have no advantage in a average situation like other killers have (most of them) with your "special" abilitie.
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@Angelicus23 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2096043#Comment_2096043
Dude I had read enough with your first essay in this thread chile can you like use short sentences and paragraphs. I'm not complaining about anything, you are. You want old legion back and I'm saying that's not happening for obvious reasons you refuse to accept, but instead, you're just saying "uhm yeah there was counterplay I swear I played legion back then" like ok me too, but there wasnt any counterplay, any example you try to give is useless unless you show actual footage, and if you don't own any of those days, drop it.
If you think that my ideas would bring the old Legion back, are your memories full of gaps. Or you don't know how the Legion today works. Anyways.
Btw. I know that I lost myself sometimes in long paragraphs, but changes on a game should be detailed as possible and also I need to debunk the lies, that coming over and over again in those forums from people who do not like to let other people their fun, if they have not the same attitude like them.
So... If you have something against long paragraphs, start to not exaggerate. Would some of my lines shorten.
A pattern I have always seen by people who were against it is, that they always wanted to see evidence, while they have never evidence by themself, to back up what they are saying. That is why I have no problem at all with that.
A counterplay video to the old Legion can you find here (it is also a good one since no Legion in this video uses exploits, or op addons, far as I remember and so we can stick to the truth, instead on obvious things that went wrong):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oy7ZmFrsIEThat sounds terrible, but I need to admit, that I have never play DBD on a console. I don't even have one.
Many people see the long stun after frenzy as something terrible, that has gone too far. Once I had done it by myself, but imo, this long stun can also be a opportunity. Aka. he could also be the reason to throw the mentioned stun from you away.
The stun after frenzy is long enough, so that the Legion lost its target in the most chases. It is also the longest stun in the game, far as I know and that should come with some benefits, imo.
Especially since the Legion makes nothing wrong, besides using his power, to get punished everytime with this stun.
Edit: If the Legions in this video were op to someone... Well, then are left without words.
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@Angelicus23 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2095473#Comment_2095473
I don't accept "ideas" that are unhealthy for the game and were proven like that by receiving one of the biggest nerfs in the game, just like decisive strike.
You haven't even read the idea, so you have no reason to complain about something.
If you complain about something, you should at least know about what. That is the bare minimum. Btw. as someone who had play 99% of his Legion matches without any addon above brown, I can tell you that there was counterplay.
Not without a reason have the people say that the Legion was weak. Maybe that was also a reason why some people have so often run into Legions that have have either exploit, or use the op addons, because again... Otherwise she was weak. All the "op Legion videos" on YouTube have 1 thing common: They are played by someone who has either exploit and/or use the op addons.
To pre rework times, I have seen nearly a dozen of such videos and really in every single one of those videos I had either saw the Legion player exploiting, or using a Legion with op addons, never without or as a maximum the brown addons.
I have not 1 video saw, where a Legion player said that the Legion is op, while he was playing without addons. Not 1!
And that should us left with the question, why?
As said before, because of my playstyle to that time, I know why.
Btw. what the topic unhealthy matters: Pre rewok Legion times, Steam has not shown high peaks of leaving players. Afterwards, we have seen such a peak.
Sure, some people have rant here and in other forums, but the most people rant without consequences.
With that I wanted to say, that all the people that have complain over the Legion still play the game, some that have not complain don't play the game anymore.
What me matters, so I have play since the rework ... Mhm ... maybe 10 games. All have in common that they were test matches for me.
A test if I can have still fun with this new version of the Legion or not, or later as if I were sure about my opinion to that, if the one or other change of the Legion is still in the game.
I for my part will not play this game, as long as I can't have with a killer such fun again, like with the Legion before.
And again, I don't need to have a op killer for me. You can see as evidence even this thread: I have nothing write in here that would be op. I doubt even that the average survivor would notice such a patch, besides "uh, why needs the Legion now 3 frenzys to hook me, instead of 1 like before".
But you can breathe now. I see that here in the forums are still some unhealthy guys for the community so I have uninstall DBD again.
If the devs ever decide that there is also a place for people like me in dbd, who like to stab things and a faster gameplay, I will might come back if I am aware of such a patch and not some other companie has already grab that idea up in the time between, but without any chance to have fun I can't play that game, since fun is for me the only reason to play a game.
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@FrenziedRoach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2095519#Comment_2095519
Problem with your logic is that the Legion has every reason to keep going after that wounded survivor at this point like the old Legion.
If this power wasn't coupled with the ability to ignore Windows or Pallets, I'd consider it. But because FF is tied to it, it's a automatic no-go.
We tried the ability to keep stabby stabby on the old Legion, it sucked and the playerbase hated it. You aren't going to get any support for this idea.
Even back in the days I had people know who had like it, but that is besides the point now.
Today the Legion does either:
-Frenzy dw, stun, m1 finisher.
-Makes everything as pure m1 killer, because the long stun after frenzy makes you often think if you really need frenzy now.
With the change (I don't even use the words buff, or nerf on purporse because it wouldn't be either the first, nor the second in my eyes):
-Frenzy dw 2 stabs, stun, m1 finisher.
or:
-Frenzy dw 2 stabs, stun, frenzy dw 2 stabs, stun, frenzy dw 1 stab.
If you now think about it, survivors would even better of with the last solution if we just go after what is succesfull and what not.
And if you now would like to ask me, why I should use the worst option over the better? Because of fun. Fun is not always rational.
Edit: Of course "-Makes everything as pure m1 killer, because the long stun after frenzy makes you often think if you really need frenzy now." would also still work.
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@Axe said:
I too like to play against killers with 0 counterplay. very fun and interactive, yes, yes.
And now say me where I write something about 0 counterplay?
Have you even read my last posting? *head shaking*
Reads nothing, but puts his line here in :|
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@FrenziedRoach said:
While you are technically correct that the new legion has some counterplay, I believe bringing back the ability to stab somebody in deep wounds again would be a mistake.
The purpose of Feral Frenzy is for team-slowdown and mobility - it's not there to shorten chases. What you are proposing just makes Legion a better tunneler. And while I personally don't have an issue with tunneling, I'd rather you don't give a killer an ability that makes tunneling the most efficient way to play them. Legion is already a bit of a one-trick poney. Your proposal will just turn him into a one-trick pony that tunnels.
I don't believe so, because:
-After every stab, a survivor would still move fast forward, how he does it by every m1 hit from every killer I know. That is the reason why you can only stab someone 2-3 times in 1 frenzy (have old frenzy times in mind, don't know how much would be possible with the new frenzy time, but that is ptb stuff).
-The Legion would still have this mega stun after frenzy. If you have now in mind that the Legion needed 5 stabs in the days back then, we talk here about 2-3 frenzys (depending on luck and skill of the Legion and the survivor). So, with that in mind is tunneling pretty unattractive in my eyes.
How I see it - you make your two stabs and the survivor is gone - thanks to the stun (if he stays not on purporse somewhere near the Legion, but some guys you can't help, no matter how many penalities a killer has) and then you need to search either the survivor again, or go over to the next.
It would be even less effective in my eyes, as to do it on the traditional way: Aka put deepwounds on him and m1 the survivor after a loop. The only benefit for the Legion would be, that it makes for the player fun, if he is into stabbing and that is with the Legion in mind something, that should be possible, because that was something the Legion could do in the past and also the Legion is getting advertised as such a killer still today, if you watch the longer Legion trailer who is still on the DBD - YouTube Channel up. What I wanted to say is: Some people may like to play after what they have seen in this video.
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@Angelicus23 said:
Old legion was literally a compete chase carrier for anyone and it literaly didn't need any skills, addons made him even worse to verse.
-Multiple stab attempts without cooldown which didn't reward the survivor for dodging and didn't punish the killer for their mistakes.
-Fast speed killers are meant to have a difficult movement in order to use their power, hillbilly cant fully move the camera during chainsaw for example, while legion can move freely in faster speed.
-With the previous point, old legion was able to down survivors easily with three stab wounds, every chase used to be less than a minute long.
To you and anyone like you: Please don't exaggerate. It isn't good for the discussion and it shows that you didn't know about what you are talking.
I know that are people out there, that dislike the Legion, but that is normal. There are also people out there that hate Nurse, Wraith, Meyers, Huntres, David, Kate and so on. Legion would be a bad killer, if the killer would not also have some haters.
As first, why need to be in a ->game<- punishment? Is this game a job, or some part of a prison program for inmates? I tell you guys what: Games have to make fun. If you wanna have punishment, well... That does not like everyone.
The Legion today has counterplay and the Legion back in the days had also counterplay. Also I have the feeling that some guys here have not really read my postings and more important: understand them.
Alone the argument "counterplay" shows that. So go please back and read or I will just mark you guys in my mind as people who do not know about what they talk.
I have the strong opinion that dbd is ill, because of the community. Everybody in the community has its wishes, but as soon as they talk about them, guys come up and try to talk them down and thanks to this behavior - the toxic and bad mood in the community will never change.
If you guys are interessted in a better community, you should raise your voices - but also accept other ideas and players, not only the ones in your years old circles. Thanks.
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@HectorBrando said:
Problem is not everyone is like you, me too I try to give a decent experience to the other side and my games even if I 4K Survivors end up with a ton of points (unless they behave like jerks then its sweating time) but there is always going to be a bunch of people ready to use and abuse wathever they can get their hands to stomp as fast as they can.
Old Legion main problem was little input from Survivors, whoever gets targeted first gets downed wathever he tries, there was no way you could escape a decent old Legion by yourself, you could only escape if the Killer made a mistake. I understand you like that kind of gamestyle but that kind of game mechanic was easily abusable by a bunch of jerks.
In any case I may be wrong and the change would be unconsequential, they could give what you suggest in the next PTB and see what happens.
I would love to read that they test it on ptb, but I hope that they talk then a bit about it.
I am 100% convinced that it would work but it wouldn't hurt if also Legion Mains look over it, that know the killer - best if they even know the real killer first hand before the rework -, so that they don't add op things again, but make it also not worse.
My trust in bhvr is damaged since the rework and I would feel better if they would be a bit more open about ptb things with this.
Honestly I have never really look into blood points to my time. I have only judge the matches over, if they had make me fun or not. Blood points come automatically if you just play enough and if you have also no deadline until something had to be finished, you can play very chill ;) .
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@HectorBrando said:
Yeah I understood you want only the ability to drain Deep Wounds meter with sucessive stabs until people are downed and thats exactly what I dont want, for the Survivor it was impossible escape Legion for they outrun, outvault and ignore pallets, for Legion it was a slow way to down someone (similar to what happens with Deathslinger) so people knowing fully they couldnt win a chase and the chase was going to be slower than usual they genrushed. Also to reimplement that they would need to adjust stuff like timer on Feral Frenzy and stuff.
In the end games went like this, Legion found someone, people saw Deep Wounds, went into genrush overdrive, Legion being slow at downing people with their power and being a 110% speed Killer took their sweet time downing them and hook but people were commiting fully to gens because it was a pain to play against and wanted out. People ignored saves just to push gens, thats how disliked Legion was.
Old Legion was so disliked its said it almost killed the game.
I had made other experiences as Legion main to that time, but as said before - I am not a tryhard and usually I just tried to have fun and let the survs their fun.
I need to say - what you say would not come back, even with the things mentioned from me, because compared to the Legion pre-rework, has the Legion today a long stun after frenzy (longer as before, more as double - far as I remember) and a stun after a missing hit. Also a bigger tr and changed frenzy speed.
Honestly said would this change only make people like me happy, that are into the stabby guys. Legion player who play on success would still play the Legion as they play it already today. Aka frenzy - dw - m1. Beeing the stabby guy today would mean frenzy - changing target because the old one is already on the other side of the map thanks to the long stun after frenzy - frenzy - changing target because.... - frenzy.
Or also maybe frenzy and then m1 if the Legion want to combine multiple stabs with m1 playstyle, but that would change for the survivors nothing, because that is what they already got today (aka one frenzy and then a finisher with m1 inclusive looping and so on).
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@HectorBrando said:
There is a reason people speak of old Legion as the most unsufferable Killer to be released ever both as play as and against (then Twins got released and took their throne as the epithome of bad game design).
I play Legion a bit and I dont want the old one back.
That was mainly for 3 reasons:
-The Legion without addons was weak.
-The Legion had 2 exploits to this time, that a unknown number of Legion players have use over and over again until the rework got released.
-The Legion had 2, in my opinion 3 op addons to that time.
I don't want to have anything of it back. I just talk from this one abilitiy.
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@Mr_K said:
So its just to be stabby stabby with zero benefit in a chase?
Almost. You can injure the survivor, or even down him... After 5 stabs (if I think back then). That would mean 2-3 feral frenzys on one survivor. With the stun after feral frenzy and the stun after a missing hit in mind, I believe that it would still not lead a Legion player to tunneling, at least not more as the Legion players today tunnel, because it is not a one shot ability (as mentioned already) and the stun after feral frenzy gives survivors time to leave.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2084588#Comment_2084588
It was fun. Really fun, even if it wasn't really effective.
Exactly. I have also other killers play to that time (almost everyone besides hillbilly and doctor) and nothing could even compare with the fun I had with that.
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@Mr_K said:
I have play a lot Legion to pre-rework times without addons and without addons, you were only able to stab a guy 2-3 times. That were back then not enough to down someone.
Why you want it back then? Explain the benefits.
I talk just about the mentioned ability.
The rest can be, as it is now, but I would like to be the stabby guy again. Of course, still with a chance for the survivors to come away from the Legion. That is why I am ok with the stuns and have also mentioned to be aware for the devs of the addons.
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I wouldn't call 1-2 streamers + their audiences + a handful of mindless guys who have follow them "the community", but go on :). I had in my endgamechat more people as they people, that have actively watch their streams and I was nothing special -_-.
@Vetrathene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1794851#Comment_1794851
But this just illustrates what problem SWF is, not problems with killers.
You are right, but you can't do anything against swf in a multiplayer game. Everyone expects to be able, to play with his/her friends a multiplayer game.
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The problem with all the "Gang" ideas for the Legion are: Swf.
Even the locker thing mentioned aboved could easy be told to other survivors via coms. Like also where one has seen some other Legion member staying and so on.
While I admit that it is an interesting idea, I don't know how that could be balanced against swfs.
Also the Legion had always 2 advertising videos. The second and longer video had shown the pre rewok Legion and even if this killer was far away from being op - how also the killrates stats of that time have prove - he was what some people miss.
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@WorstKillerNA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1793809#Comment_1793809
What? No. I love Legion! I absolutely love the idea and aesthetic they have. Legion is the only killer that i truly love playing and can conform to the idea of "maining"
It was definitely not a myth that legion was so unfun to play against it stagnated the community (no not ALL their fault lol but they were icing on the cake lol). And any game i got to actually play them was like christmas for me, whether i won or lost.
I was personally happy with the nerfs they recieved because if it meant i could play with people dcing on me lol but i do think they all they needed to do was address the main reason they were broken which was moonwalk tunneling and death marking. I would love for them to bring back the on-hit interaction frenzy had thats what allowed them to have more fun options with a power that isnt meant to be lethal itself and i think ot was fine for them to have it.
As someone mentioned they are technically mid tier which is TECHNICALLY balanced even if they just dont feel like it. theyre unsatisfyingly "balanced" but they could just use... SOMETHING ya know?
Also if youre a Legion main, HUG ME, BROTHER! ♥
Sorry for the aggressive approach, but I had think I would write with one of the lying and toxic people that have rush the forums in the past, because their lords (sorry streamers) told them to do so.
A stagnation I can't neither denie, nor verify. The only thing that I have saw was a negative spike in the steam stats a few days, or weeks after the rework.
The survivors I had talk with to that time in the endgame chat and 1 I had also as a friend to that time (he does not play dbd anymore), were happy to had a distraction from the usual killers. I mean besides nurse were aside from that no real reason for them to play differently.
So that they have to behave differently to their usual behavior, if they face the usual m1 killer. They were happy to do other counterplay and also to do it fast, because to face the Legion to that time has force the killer, like the survivors to a faster gameplay.
Of course everyone was against the exploiting people. That is also why I am ok with the banwave towards Legionmains. With what I am not ok is, that the devs have indirectly support the dcing people (because they have done what they wanted) and not ban people that have exploited and were no Legionmains (like the survivor-perk exploiters shortly afterwards the rework).
For me the Legion and also dbd had die on the day were I was not anymore able to be fast and to stab people multiple times. I have seen this as a scam, even to this day because on this way the Legion was advertised to new players - that I was to this time and I know for certain, that I don't be alone with those feelings.
In my opinion dbd would have had more win with letting the Legion in the game as it was, but fixing the exploits and op addons, towards the situation today.
Because on this way they would have stay open to new players that would have liked to play something different as always the same (usual m1 killers), or to play against.
Instead they decided to cater the small toxic minority of 1-2 streamers, close the door for those potentially new players and gave those dc'ers what they wanted.
The outcome of this trade of playerbases plagues dbd to this day and I assume it has cost dbd more players as the Legion ever could have.
But as said before. Dbd totally deserves it. Who ever does what dcing people want, deserves to drown into dcing matches. That is just my opinion.
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@WorstKillerNA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1792337#Comment_1792337
Are you sure youre talking about the same game everyone else here is talking about?
Pre nerf Legion is the reason the devs are so scared and cautious with killers now because they were the most broken and unbalanced thing to ever be created and it killed their playerbase more than anything, even more than the Drought of 2017 did (the content gap between Hag and Doctor.)
There was even PTB 2.5 where they BUFFED frenzy into a two-tap on injured survivors with franks tape and for just that brief moment they were Nurse tier. If they found you, you were down. At least 1 person at a time was garunteed to not be able to play the game if they were playing against Legion. Obviously that never made it out of ptb lolol
They were strong but for completely all the wrong reasons.
According to the steamstats, the "kill" of the playerbase came after the rework, not before.
And I have shorten my posting via. editing. As a former Legionmain I don't need to reveal the lies anymore, put in place by the toxic part of the community to that time.
I just need to lean back and giggle sometimes about the state of dbd how it is today because, the roots to that lay back in this rework and because of it, dbd has totally deserved to be the game it is today :).
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@siren_sorceress said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1793178#Comment_1793178
Spread out and never heal, yup. Everyone is forced to be injured or waste time healing against a killer that gets yes, free hits. You can twist it anyway you want, they are free hits. Are there weaknesses around it? Yes, as there should be. But they are still free hits. His counterplay to his actual power in chase is boring bc there is none.
As I said, he's basically fine just poorly designed and thus a buff would not be healthy. I know people that play Legion and do more than fine. I'm not advocating for a nerf or buff, simply a reworking if killers dont enjoy him. I find that hard to believe though so I see him so often.
If he is mid tier, good. Not every killer needs to be a god like Freddy and Spirit. Especially when solo survivors rely solely on rng for their quality of team mates.
Besides, he's most think hes trash bc most killers dont run tiles well at all and they rely heavily on their powers these days. I have 5k hours and rarely come across a killer that runs tiles well at all. They are out there and they are usually m1 pigs and trappers who know how to actually kick ass in tiles.
And who are you, to decide, if a killer deserves to be top tier? That is toxic. You just say to the playerbase behind it "I don't care for you, I like to life in my own bubble, obey to it or stop playing".
Every killer deserves to be top tier, because every player behind it matters. Like it also is on the survivor side. There deserves also every survivor to have the same chances, or would you like it if every survivor besides Claudette would move slower next patch about 20%, just because not every survivor needs to be top tier?
Every killer and I mean EVERY killer, should be nearly on the same level, to give the players the maximum on fun they can have with this character and in this game.
You survivors talking so often about fun. Nearly every day comes a thread with that one up, but if we talk about killers questions come up like "is it really necessary?". Yes it is necessary to have fun.
Until bhvr starts not to pay the killerplayerbase we need to have fun, clear now?
And Legion is not fine!
The Legion rework was a betrayl on the playerbase where bhvr decieded to exchange 1 part of the playerbase with another and this decision curses dbd to this day (well deserved in my opinion - everytime someone dc's = say thanks to the devs because they have done what the toxic part of the community wanted and not what the more calm part wanted).
And it was also a scam. Don't know how it is in other countrys, but in my you have to deliver what you sell and no matter how you think about the Legion, they don't deliver anymore what they sell and there is no justification for it, if you are not biased to only your own enjoyment.
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@Felnex said:
They only have 600 employees, don't be too hard on them.
Is that correct?
I thought always they would be just be some small indie dev team (what do I know... Something between 10-30 + freelancers from time to time), because... well... of the "speed" with what changes coming in the game.
Well... Then I better say nothing anymore, because it is hard to find kind words under this conditions. Especially towards the Legion situation, that was a betrayal on the majority of the playerbase, just in favor of a toxic minority, but also other points staying then in a completley new light for me, like that this game still has no new game modes and stiuations in dbd still exist where 1 side can the other totally outplay, match making, bugs... Need I to go on?
I just shake my head instead.
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As long as the devs have not set up for me the conditions to have fun and instead bring patch after patch that are unfun, why exactly should I do that? Nobody pays me for that (luckily because it would still feel like a curse), so... nooop.
Just here for my own curiosity to see how long dbd will survive :).
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1777319#Comment_1777319
Pretty sure the "I hit you and look at the ground and no matter what I or you do in 20 seconds you're dead" was a pretty significant problem with his base kit. His add ons definitely excacerbated that problem though. The double mend stack bug was awful as was franks mix tape.
You are right. But what you have described was part of the exploits and addons. Not even everything. Most people wanted to see there a change. Also me. I just had hoped that it had stopped after that and the other problematic addons.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1777274#Comment_1777274
Legion couldn't stay in their launch state. That would have done more to speed up the death of DBD than any other decision the devs have made. The amount of oversight there was in regards to deep wound and moonwalking outright killer survivor gameplay for the entire time leading up to the rework.
That said I'm not even remotely satisfied with the current version.
1) That can't nobody know. Since nobody knows the future and with what the devs in the future will possible come up.
2) I had only seen a high peak of leaving players shortly after the rework patch. That is understandable. Nobody to that time thought that all of the posted ptb changes will go live. It had more look like a list from one dev about the things that could be possible done with the Legion, where they then in a meeting pick 1-3 things out.
But they haven't pick and just done everything as we know today.
3) The part of the playerbase that was against the Legion, was a very toxic, maybe the most toxic one in DBD. They tried to voice their opinion with the help of dcing, lying and denying of the real abilities of the Legion, towards the other parts of the playerbase that was either ok with the Legion, or neutral towards it and even towards the devs. Also in some forums, like the steam forums, they changed very often their forumnames, to fake a larger number of complaining people.
I had seen through it by accident, as I by accident discovered that their names got even in old threads changed and if you could remember who had written what in old threads, you could trace them, no matter how often they changed their names.
4) That said, you are right in parts. The Legion had annoying parts. For the people who have play it and against it, but that would have been the exploits and the addons. Not the basekit.
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I would say that the Legion thing is still hurting, but it would be a lie. I am just mad about it and hold it as a bad example of game companie decisions in mind. Since they gutted the Legion with intent to cater a specific part of the core audience (also a very toxic part imo) and forget about the players who had fun to play, or to play against the pre rework Legion (they have exist, despite how much even the named toxic part still trys to denie it today), I just chuckle sometimes, that a game that solds so well, can't hold its players.
Usually I would have sympathy with the game devs (hell I still even speak good about Bethesda), but not if they on purpose stomb game features and frighten away parts of their playerbase, just to cater a small part of their core aduience.
I am curious how long this will be enough. At least on this way I have something to read while I am searching for new things to buy on steam, or amazon :).
Edit: What the rest matters, so I think that is a good list, besides by 2 or 3 killers where it seems at least to me a bit exaggerated.
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Imo the problem of bhvr are not really the bugs (as long as they are not gamebreaking like ctd bugs and so on), or even the coding that some people lead here in the field.
Everything of this is ok, if you have fun with your game. If you have fun, you like to wish those bugs would be gone by the next update, but on the other hand - you will still play the game if it makes fun for you, even if the next updates comes without bugfixes.
The problem is, that bhvr only caters a small core audience. They said by themself, that they have sell DBD over a million times and if you look at the steam charts, most of the time only 20-40k people playing it, world wide.
I assume (I don't know), that their income comes also then only from a much smaller part of this audience, how it is by every game that lives from a ingame store (imo, the dlcs are just there to lure you in, the money is made with the cosmetics).
And for reasons I can't honestly understand - maybe I am just stupid - they stick to this core audience. Instead of trying to branch out towards other possible playerbases.
Some will say, "but they have bring DBD on consoles and so on" - that is not exactly what I mean - they catch there also only after the same type of player and fighting a battle that they only can lose on the long run (long run means here years imo), since from their prefered playerbase some will stop to play the game over time - how it is with every game.
The only helpful solution would be to branch out to new type of players. Why they don't do that, I can't understand.
Of course, it would be much work at the beginning. New gamemodes that attract other players, or killers with abilites that were unthinkable before and maybe also collide with what the core audience likes, would be what is necessary imo.
I have already speak from that for years and I haven't read 1 good argument against it.
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Legion. Doesn't saw the changes comming, as a newbie that I was back in the day.
A bit Freddy, for the same reason as by Legion. Other then that, nop. But I haven't buy much. Before I spent much more money on something, I like to have fun with the product and also to be sure, that I get for my money a product as it was advertised.
That is not ment to be a rant. Please don't let us do it here. Just my point of view.
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I can only assume it is because many survivors run on pc always some sort of second changes perk.
But if you dislike this perk, just do totems. As killer, I wish we had just something simple as this to take the second changes perks completely out of the match. Don't get this please as ranting. It is just a comparsion.
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Were serial killers ever really wanted?
In all the years I watching those forums by now, I can't remember seeing much threads about them. Not even a handful in this time...
I personally would not like to see them. I sometimes like watching documentaries about them, but thats it. Wouldn't like to be one. Also I think that would give those more attention as they already have and that is imo not a good thing.
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If you really playing Legion for a longer time, you will find the limits of the Legion.
Survivors can basically outplay you, if they know how. I don't think that Legion is a favorite killer for rank 1 killers, without having the killer rates yet in mind of rank 1, but I am not afraid to search them, if it is necessary.
Sure some guys still running there around with them, but they aren't the average and serious people should ask themself why?
Some survivor mains will blaim everything on the player, since they are gods and every killer is either a cheater, or a newbie, but for the people that like to spent this situation honest thoughts, they must come to the conclusion that might the Legion is a bit weak.
In my eyes, Legion is not comparable with Doc, Freddy, Oni, Hag, Huntress and some more.
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With the old Legion, but that was for a long time the only killer I had play, besides a few hours as survivor. So there was not much place for anything else, in the beginning.
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A mix of a real rework and undone of the already done rework, with the aim to max fun and this time please also for the Legionplayerbase and not only the audience of 2-3 streamers, thaaanks bhvr waves, thanks^^.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1715976#Comment_1715976
compltely agreed, we need legion in the spotlight not this garbage survivor roleplayer that ethan refuses to acknowledge is bad because 1. he cant admit his failure 2. he genuinely doesn't understand
They have done everything what a bunch of survivors and their 2-3 streamer-heros in the past wanted. Since then they tell everyone that it was great what they have done, even if there are dozens of reasons why it is not. I don't believe that they will ever openly admit, that they have on purpose destroy the fun for a part of the killer and survivor community, just in favor of another part of the survivor community.
To "fix" the Legion would actually easy, since they have just to redo stuff I guess.
Still I also hope for new game modes. Many players on those forums had the idea to search for generator parts, instead of holding always m1. Or also completely new game modes, like "escape" from other games would be great. Maybe also something like "try to survive 10 minutes or so".
The mainreason why I dislike playing survivor is, because it is so boring for me. Different killers are no help here, since they always "hunt" after the same scheme (aka. looping - m1 hit - looping - m1 hit), but different game modes would make it maybe interesting enough to give it again a try.
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Old Legion back without exploits. New Gamemodes. Bugfixes. The 3 things that still lay deep down in the fbi offices as x-files I guess :).
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-That they fixing more bugs and faster. Maybe giving 1-2 more people a job bhvr, eh (and best a good paid job, so that they like to work in the companie and not curse over every day they have to move, to the office)?
-That they implement 2-3 new game modes.
-That they stop nerfing perks (killer and survivor perks).
-That they maybe instead work on a different system how perks are used in dbd - so that not everyone sees always the same in every match.
-That they buff the majority of killers, so that the average player can have fun with them - not just streamers that play dbd 24/7 as a job.
-That they undone the Legion rework in parts.
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-Bugs
-And that never anything changes. Neither the survivor objectives (gens), nor the killer playstyle (m1 with pallets and stuns)*.
It will be a slow death.
That said, I don't see it coming in the next years, if not another game comes up, that can really challenge dbd in form of the variety of killer and survivor characters.
*I know, nurse does not care, but she is the only one. So we can see her as a design mistake, even she is one of the design "mistakes" that dbd needs more as anything else. Sad that creativity only comes in such a small extent and every other killer who had a chance to break this circle of m1 looping style got nerfed down :|.
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Don't know how to balance killers without red stain and tr, but if those 2 things would go away, I assume, I would love to play survivor because not knowing where the killer is and that he could be in every second behing me - that would finally something thrilling.
Maybe dbd could make out of it a second game mode. The people who find killers then too op could still play the old dbd and the people who need that little extra, could play the second game mode without tr and so on.