SuzuKR
SuzuKR
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- SuzuKR
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Comments
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146444#Comment_3146444
It definitely isn't. I think everyone is ready for Nurse to be a D-Tier killer for a while, except for the Nurse mains wanting easy wins.
I’m sorry that you are bad at playing against a killer and want to make them utterly garbage. Nothing should ever be made garbage, that is straight up moronic. That is not how good game design works.
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146411#Comment_3146411
1 Blink and no add ons or offerings.
???? Is this a troll post?
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Part of the reason it looks off is because they move hyper fast, which looks weird on ping + survivor hitbox reasons. Example:
Nurse blinks at 13.333m/s for a max range blink and swings. Blight runs at 9.2m/s default. Then you factor in the killer’s ping to send the information of said movement and attack to the server, and same for the survivor’s movement to the server, and getting the info back. In that time, there will be distance disparity.
Factor in that all survivors have the same size hitbox that is basically always a pill shape that doesn’t match the visual model, and you get weird looking hits. Nurse actually has the smallest lunge range of all killers after a blink (0.333m shorter than default of 6m), while her non-lunge is slightly longer (0.333m longer than default of 3m).
As for Blight, it’s wide at the start and then on attack, narrows down to a super narrow lunge forward. This is so people don’t just get a free dodge by being right beside him.
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@WeakestNurseMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146411#Comment_3146411
I have yet to play against a single Nurse in my 1k hours of survivor that has used anything aside from recharge/range/3 blink, no one uses them, so why waste the time to create new addons when range and 3 blink are inevitably nerfed when you can just delete all of them.
So? Removing variety is bad.
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@WeakestNurseMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146406#Comment_3146406
I guess I need to be more specific, I'm saying she would literally not have any add-ons, the only thing you could equip on her is perks and offerings.
That’s just an outright bad idea. It gets rid of fun/meme/playstyle changing add-ons as well as recharge. Just rework range and 3 blink instead.
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Her basekit is perfect. Recharge is strong but balanced. Range/+1 blink shouldn’t exist.
The rest are meme-level at best.
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Range and Torn Bookmark need reworks to the effects entirely.
Recharge is strong but balanced.
Certain maps need their size increased/decreased (for too small and too big respectively).
The basekit is completely fine.
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Have you tried learning to play against her instead? It helps.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146150#Comment_3146150
Yes exactly the problem, no counterplay is allowed, you are given a maximum 30s timer. With that people think an S-tier killer needs more bugs and exploits to potentially shorten it? That is insane.
You can counterplay both bump logic and hug tech via mindgaming.
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@jayoshi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146149#Comment_3146149
Thana now isn't overpowered, but before the nerf it only was on Legion and less so on Plague. So many people complained and DC when they got a Legion because they knew gens would take forever because his power base is to quickly injure people. It made games almost unplayable for a lot of people - so they just nerfed it hard when it didn't need it for other killers. I feel like with what you said with the rework you suggested for Thana that it would be how it was before with Legion. So instead of 22% when all survivors are injured, it's now 20%. It's not a problem with other killers, but with him/her they are easily able run around and get Thana stacks quickly.
20% for keeping all 4 injured is fine, and 14-18% for other killers just spreading injures normally is also fine.
@jayoshi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146153#Comment_3146153
No, I get that. It is asking too much for the devs. I'm not suggesting every perk gets reworked for every killer, just ones like Thana with Legion. I also see a lot of people complain about Nurse being OP and wanting her to be nerfed which may very well happen. In my experience of playing this game, the worst nurse games are ones that run starstruck with IF. You just get slugged and lay on the ground bored hoping someone brought Unbreakable, but only for it to happen again and their UB is gone. Is the answer nerfing her or just those perks on her. I don't know. I just know a lot of people are complaining about her and it may be enough that BHVR listens like they have in the past with other killers that got nerfed.
Starstruck: Survivors should be split up regardless of Nurse’s perks anyways, and running away from a slug when someone goes down. Even with Agitation, this still works.
Infectious: Run away/be out of the TR/hide after/etc.
Nurse: Mindgame the blinks.
Each source has its own built in counterplay. Before you bring up Midwich or The Game, yes, those are both badly designed and need reworks as well as to be made larger.
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@jayoshi said:
Why do you sound so agressive with your "First of all and second of all and your friend is a moron for saying that". I just posted this asking for constructive opinions on it. I know you can't read tone, but Jesus.
It's not a nightmare if done right. What if they left Thana alone but only nerfed it for Legion and Plague? The only reason they nerfed Thana was because of those killers - right? Everyone complained about it being nerfed so hard. It wasn't necessary because it's OP on only a couple of killers.
I guess lets just continue nerfing perks to the ground because of how OP they are on certain killers but not others.
What perks were regularly buffed just for Nurse? Not talking add-ons. Like did they come out and say "we did this because it buffs Nurse". I feel like they release perks and then they get push back from the community and go "uh oh. We are nerfing this perk. Sorry guys"
Thanatophobia isn’t overpowered on anyone. It should be reworked again though to be more front heavy so it’s useful on more than exclusively 2 killers. Eg, first is 8%, second is 6%, third is 4%, fourth is 2%, for a total of 20%. But even 2 will be 14% and 3 will be 18%, making it not useless on most killers.
Perks don’t need to be nerfed to the ground.
Examples of perks amazing on Nurse that were buffed: Retribution’s aura reveal duration, No Way Out’s duration from PTB, Lethal Pursuer’s recent buff, Dead Man’s Switch losing obsession requirement, Pentimento having slowdown moved to first token, Gift of Pain, Eruption, etc.
Examples of perks amazing on Nurse that were released: No Way Out, Starstruck, Deadlock, Pain Resonance, Pentimento, Floods of Rage, Lethal Pursuer, Gift of Pain (post-buff), Infectious Fright, Eruption, Plaything, Grim Embrace, Call of Brine, Darkness Revealed, Terminus, etc.
Not specifically for Nurse, but done so regardless of Nurse’s existence. Which completely disproves that myth that she holds back balance or perks.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146007#Comment_3146007
To be more accurate the lack of skill and dedication required compared to the results received. Also you found it necessary to comment on this proving deep down somewhere in your ego you couldn't let it go, and it matters to you to some degree. For most people the need to be recognized when pulling off something difficult is a core need. I am recognizing a lack of skill for Blight bug abuses, and the need for a crutch such as exploiting on an S-tier killer is more sad than impressive.
Have you tried leaving the surface? Hug tech is simple to counter in return for the upsides being using less rushes/looking flashy.
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First of all, this is a nightmare of balance and consistency issues to do.
Second of all, neither example is a problem.
The thing that moron told you is absolute nonsensical garbage with zero evidence. BHVR regularly buffs and releases perks for her that are amazing.
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Is this a joke?
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@YourWifeSamantha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145869#Comment_3145869
IS BORING . and takes zero skills. basically camp cause u can't play the game . this is how i see it as surv main. fair/unfair it makes me wanna stop gaming after meeting this behaviour continously.
I don’t know why you think anyone cares how you see gameplay strategies. Do you think it’s unfair for a person to go for headshots in a shooter? Or to play flankers against a team with no characters to protect against flankers?
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@I_am_Negan said:
You can't force a camper to play the game fair.
Just like nobody can force someone to stay in the match they don't want to play.
You got to do, what you got to do.
That has the erroneous implication it’s unfair to camp.
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@mizark3 said:
This would be treating the symptom rather than the cause. Don't put a band-aid over an infected wound, sterilize it first. Why are people quitting early? Is it the 12th Blight/Nurse in a row? Introduce a killer ban system or no repeat killer system. Is it due to lag? Add an option for maximum latency in matchmaking. Did the killer immediately camp or tunnel off the instasave? Make it mechanically punished instead of rewarded.
A short term fix might be removing DC penalties if anyone else DCs first, or if the first survivor to be killed is killed before a single gen pops. However this may have unintended side effects, so I can understand it not being implemented.
Why are you bringing up non-gameplay reasons in this context? They are literally irrelevant to the topic.
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You have this weird idea that camping or tunneling makes someone bad/is unfair. They are literally strategies with risks and rewards this game is balanced around.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145769#Comment_3145769
Gameplay sure, human reasons, plenty.
??? Like what lmao.
The only valid excuses to DC are cheaters, game breaking bugs, and IRL reasons (eg need to do something/emergency/etc)
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@Metronix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145773#Comment_3145773
A killer running around, because he's definetly not camping does not generate pressure?
If survivors don’t have timed hook states, there’s no reason to grab them before finishing a gen/heal/etc. Which is literally the point of the timed state, to force that.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145320#Comment_3145320
Supalf has over 300 wins streak on nurse im not sure did he get bored and let survivors escape. He posted video AFK:ing until all gens done so I think that's it then.
mfw 7200h nurse main comp player using super strong builds in pub games stomps almost every lobby
clearly this makes no sense
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The entire reason hooks have timed states is to generate pressure. It makes people have to rescue instead of just ignoring them to do something else.
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@mizark3 said:
This would be treating the symptom rather than the cause. Don't put a band-aid over an infected wound, sterilize it first. Why are people quitting early? Is it the 12th Blight/Nurse in a row? Introduce a killer ban system or no repeat killer system. Is it due to lag? Add an option for maximum latency in matchmaking. Did the killer immediately camp or tunnel off the instasave? Make it mechanically punished instead of rewarded.
A short term fix might be removing DC penalties if anyone else DCs first, or if the first survivor to be killed is killed before a single gen pops. However this may have unintended side effects, so I can understand it not being implemented.
There is no valid gameplay reason to DC other than cheaters or gamebreaking bugs (like being permanently stuck in a hill).
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@TeleportingTurkey said:
Blight's "fix" is going to be him having the same mechanic Wesker has - inability to use his rush if a collision is in front of him within 1 meter more or less.
So sliding would be physically impossible because you would never be able to enter the range at which it is performed.
There’s absolutely no way something isn’t going to get bugged.
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@Onyx said:
I love how all the killer mains in this thread are like: Bamboozle? Perfectly fine perk, just adapt, survivors!
But god forbid there were a similar perk for survivors, even if limited to a timer or being an exhaustion perk. It's only fine if survivors have to deal with dumb mechanics, like blocking windows whenever you want or Endfury, but killers should not have to deal with any such annoying mechanics.
You know what I want? a Franklins equivalent for survivors, when used (maybe when stunning a killer with a pallet) it makes them drop their addons, which they have to pick up. It also removes charges from addons and makes them get disabled if they are on the ground too much. I mean, when people complained about Franklins I saw a killer just say "just adapt and learn to play without items", well then I think killers should learn to play without addons.
I agree, let killers drop pallets on their own so that they don’t have to wait for a survivor to drop it to break it. Then the killer can get rid of all the good pallets on their own first, wouldn’t that be awesome? We should also give them a Sprint Burst perk so they can run at super speed towards survivors without using up a mobility power.
Oh wait, maybe it’s almost like survivors and killers have different standards applied because this is an asymmetric game where each side plays completely differently, and so stuff does not translate over identically. Wow, who could’ve possibly ever imagined that? Makes no sense.
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lmao, no
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The direct and obvious skill/practice-to-reward growth as you improve.
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Yes, good players will win almost every single game because most players they will face will only be average, and MMR will not have enough people of their level to ever consistently give even-skill matches. This is why there's huge escape streaks and kill streaks on every single thing in this game.
This is not news.
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I foresee it will either break Blight's collision and sliding, collisions for all other killers and survivors too, or both.
If BHVR adjusts Blight's collision mechanics, it'll likely ruin regular collision for bump logic, as well as for sliding, which is an intentionally created mechanic (this is not up for debate), just because they wanted to get rid of one specific unintended method of sliding.
If BHVR adjusts map objects, it'll likely screw it up for all killers and survivors both.
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If it glows, it goes
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Her basekit is balanced. Range/Torn Bookmark need reworks. Recharge is fine. Rest is negligible.
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Ah yes, vault a god window that the killer has literally no way to continue the chase on and block it. Genius design.
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Fun/boring/etc is all subjective and irrelevant. What some find fun, others will find boring, and vice-versa. As long as there's no balance issues, there's no problem.
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Maybe one day, people will actually understand how burden of proof and evidence of absence works.
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No, but it takes longer than that to figure out a solution that isn't completely stupid and abusable.
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@ByeByeQ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3144265#Comment_3144265
I disagree. @SuzuKR is in every thread making claims that the Nurse's base kit is balanced.
He's made claims. It is right for him to be called out to provide proof. Especially when @Gandor has a provided proof that @SuzuKR swiftly calls "statistically insignificant." Well at least it's something, which is more statistically significant that all the proof he himself has provided.
If BHVR doesn't include DCs in the stats they provide then their data isn't statistically significant either. The Nurse having the lowest kill rate in all the stats they've ever released could be countered by her having the highest DC rate. I think DCs should count as kills for calculating kill rates since survivors are DCing from games they'd usually die in anyway, unless they actually unintentionally DCed.
So they're literally is no real proof.
The only proofs Nurse is overperforming we have are nearly daily threads of "Nerf Nurse," the tier lists that almost unanimously put her at the top, the fact that she is the best of the viable killers in high level competitive play and that she has well above average stats on at least one aggregate site out there. On that site today she has a 62.65% kill rate vs the average of 56.12%, which even with a generous margin of error is clearly overperforming.
The only proofs we have the the Nurse not overperforming are the posts of a small and loud group of Nurse mains that post in every thread and data provided by BHVR from a long time ago before the significant bug removal for Nurse in 5.5.0 and the balance change in 6.1.0 while ignoring DCs.
Defending Nurse right now is like defending the Earth being flat. They even use the same strategy of ignoring any and all evidence.
You do realize that in rage DC games, it would follow suit that the kill rates are much higher, right? An early 3v1 is completely unwinnable for survivors, regardless of killer, if the killer isn’t completely incompetent.
Majority opinion is irrelevant. The majority consensus used to be the Sun revolved around the Earth.
Being number 1 is irrelevant, there will always be a number 1 and that does not mean it’s overpowered, just that it’s the best.
Ah yes the aggregate site that relies entirely on people who self-report to a site like that. I couldn’t possibly see what kind of sampling bias issues could possibly exist. Makes no sense.
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3144337#Comment_3144337
If you're using nightlight, they have several thousand games of data per month, so I would say you are getting relatively accurate overall data for the game. With the knowledge that most of the players submitting stuff to it are probably above average and are more invested in the game.
Voluntary self-submission is biased.
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This game is balanced for the absolute majority of players.
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DBD is better player-sided.
This game is balanced for the absolute majority of players.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3144386#Comment_3144386
Then read my other comments. I provided convincing "proofs". It's just that they COULD be wrong (same way as you COULD win lottery tomorrow)...
Anecdotes and arbitrary opinions of random non-BHVR people not based on objective stats is irrelevant.
Also, how is it convincing when you yourself literally admit they could be wrong? The cognitive dissonance is insane. You can’t even convince yourself.
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You do realize she walks at 3.85m/s, right? Her basekit is completely fine.
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@Risky12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3143669#Comment_3143669
She doesn't need a nerf??? The massive killer buffs have made her a menace. Blink hits have less cool down now and that allows for faster blinks. Slap gen defense with her and it's a no win situation, Your screwed, Dead.
Do you not realize her blink fatigue not only overrides the attack cooldown, but is longer than the normal attack cooldown?
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Statistically significant proof of her over performing in kill rates in games where players of even skill are matched together, please. If you can’t offer proof, no reason to listen to meaningless conjecture.
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Awakened Awareness is garbage on Starstruck builds. Starstruck will make survivors scram from a slug the second someone goes down if the survivors aren’t complete morons. AA only reads in 20m. If carrying ends and someone is still in the 20m, their aura is read for another extra 2s. As in, does literally nothing to people who leave the 20m before carrying ends.
Guess what? Nurse fatigue after two blinks into a swing is 3.5s. Pick up takes 3s. Guess what a survivor can do in 6.5s even if they start literally beside the Nurse? Run 26m away. Let’s be even more generous and say the survivor in chase misplayed and went down to a single blink. That’s 2.5s fatigue then. 5.5s is 22m.
Which begs the question, what in hell are you doing not leaving the area?
Before someone brings up Gideon/Midwich, those are both terribly designed maps that are way too small and need to be increased anyways in size. On basically any other map, this is a complete non-issue.
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She doesn’t need a nerf. With the exception of range addons and Torn Bookmark, she’s perfectly fine.
What you are asking for already exists in the form of Blight lmao.
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Unhooking someone is meant to be a risk that draws attention.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3143640#Comment_3143640
Some ppl enjoy this game by playing sabo build and it's not entirely swf thing (but it's true that it works in SWF much better). If you take a toolbox and killer decides to go for your hook (and he does not have iron grasp, agitation, ...) and you are fortunate to be on some hook-sensible map (so no saloon or game or some other hook-dense map), then you have a chance to actually pull it off. Sometimes even without getting hit.
But it is true, that there are a quite a few maps that are way too hook-dense (killer can down survivor exactly in the middle of 3 hooks (longest path), decides to go for your hook, it gets saboed "to his face", he can still turn around and decide to go for NEXT hook and make it in time even if you take a hit).
Wow, it’s almost like preventing a hook is meant to be extremely difficult and not in your favor, because punishing the killer for a down would be insanely stupid if it is even remotely reliable in the tiniest bit.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3143480#Comment_3143480
Check every larger streamer killer list. I am sure you are unable to find one who will not give it into top 3 (she is TOP 1 btw). That's proof #1.
Check this forum and count how many times people suggest that this killer actually needs nerf. That's your proof #2.
Or try to play her somewhat seriously (give her at least 200 hours) and then play ANY other killer and compare which one is stronger. You might get some competition with blight or artist or spirit or someone. But still she will be the strongest. If you invest 2k hours.... There is no killer that can compete to her powers (especially with addons).
saying this as someone who mostly played her with her meme addons (short blinks with short lunge). What other proof do you need?
- Appeal to authority/Failing to understand streamers’ opinions are not objective proof of stats/Failing to understand #1 =/= OP.
- Appeal to majority/Failing to understand mob opinion does not determine objective reality like performance statistics
- Failing to understand strongest =/= OP/Failing to understand any good player will decimate most matches because most players are average and not as good
Is that really the only things you can come up with? That’s kind of disappointing.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3143366#Comment_3143366
This is a complete lie. Survivors, regardless of how good, aren't juking nurses in open area let alone any other killer. Do you even know what open area means.
So then why are good survivors achieving exactly that? Get good?
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Nurse’s basekit is perfectly fine. Range and Torn Bookmark need reworks. Recharge is fine. The rest is negligible.