Thoughts on making some perks only nerf/buff on certain killers
I don't know if this has been brought up before, but with the nerf of thanatophobia because of how it's really powerful with Legion and Plague - what about only nerfing a perk if it's used by a certain killer. It doesn't matter what perk a survivor uses - they all have the same power play. However once you throw in killer - they all have different powers that makes certain perks OP for them.
So in the case of Thanatophobia - if you use it with, say for example Myers, it has the old 4.5/5/5.5% and if you use that same perk on Legion it has 1/1.5/2% with 12% if all 4 survivors are injured. Right now Thana is useless on any other killer and I don't think that's fair when it's only one or two killers that it's broken on.
It's also like with Nurse and Starstruck. Almost every nurse I go against runs it along with Infectious Fright because it's OP IMO, but the answer shouldn't be nerf Starstruck or IF to the ground. Maybe nerf it a bit only for Nurse because of how broken it can be. Maybe with the perk description say on the very bottom something along the lines "This perk has different values when used with X killer." Or when you are that killer looking at a perk that has a nerf/buff it can say "This perk has increased/reduced values with this killer".
Someone told me (so don't know if this is true or not) that they read a lot of new perks are reworked or scrapped before being release because of how the Nurse plays. Imagine all the perks we are missing out on because of one strong killer. This would fix that. What do you guys think?
Comments
First of all, this is a nightmare of balance and consistency issues to do.
Second of all, neither example is a problem.
The thing that moron told you is absolute nonsensical garbage with zero evidence. BHVR regularly buffs and releases perks for her that are amazing.
Why do you sound so agressive with your "First of all and second of all and your friend is a moron for saying that". I just posted this asking for constructive opinions on it. I know you can't read tone, but Jesus.
It's not a nightmare if done right. What if they left Thana alone but only nerfed it for Legion and Plague? The only reason they nerfed Thana was because of those killers - right? Everyone complained about it being nerfed so hard. It wasn't necessary because it's OP on only a couple of killers.
I guess lets just continue nerfing perks to the ground because of how OP they are on certain killers but not others.
What perks were regularly buffed just for Nurse? Not talking add-ons. Like did they come out and say "we did this because it buffs Nurse". I feel like they release perks and then they get push back from the community and go "uh oh. We are nerfing this perk. Sorry guys" when it was only a certain killer making it OP but not others.
Thanatophobia isn’t overpowered on anyone. It should be reworked again though to be more front heavy so it’s useful on more than exclusively 2 killers. Eg, first is 8%, second is 6%, third is 4%, fourth is 2%, for a total of 20%. But even 2 will be 14% and 3 will be 18%, making it not useless on most killers.
Perks don’t need to be nerfed to the ground.
Examples of perks amazing on Nurse that were buffed: Retribution’s aura reveal duration, No Way Out’s duration from PTB, Lethal Pursuer’s recent buff, Dead Man’s Switch losing obsession requirement, Pentimento having slowdown moved to first token, Gift of Pain, Eruption, etc.
Examples of perks amazing on Nurse that were released: No Way Out, Starstruck, Deadlock, Pain Resonance, Pentimento, Floods of Rage, Lethal Pursuer, Gift of Pain (post-buff), Infectious Fright, Eruption, Plaything, Grim Embrace, Call of Brine, Darkness Revealed, Terminus, etc.
Not specifically for Nurse, but done so regardless of Nurse’s existence. Which completely disproves that myth that she holds back balance or perks.
The game is supposed to be accessible and consistent because at it's heart, it is a casual party game. They're never going to add arbitrary rules governing what perks work what way on what killer. Aside from the obvious issues of them not having the dev bandwidth and the QA nightmare it would be.
Thana now isn't overpowered, but before the nerf it only was on Legion and less so on Plague. So many people complained and DC when they got a Legion because they knew gens would take forever because his power base is to quickly injure people. It made games almost unplayable for a lot of people - so they just nerfed it hard when it didn't need it for other killers. I feel like with what you said with the rework you suggested for Thana that it would be how it was before with Legion. So instead of 22% when all survivors are injured, it's now 20%. It's not a problem with other killers, but with him/her they are easily able run around and get Thana stacks quickly.
No, I get that. It is asking too much for the devs. I'm not suggesting every perk gets reworked for every killer, just ones like Thana with Legion. I also see a lot of people complain about Nurse being OP and wanting her to be nerfed which may very well happen. In my experience of playing this game, the worst nurse games are ones that run starstruck with IF. You just get slugged and lay on the ground bored hoping someone brought Unbreakable, but only for it to happen again and their UB is gone. Is the answer nerfing her or just those perks on her. I don't know. I just know a lot of people are complaining about her and it may be enough that BHVR listens like they have in the past with other killers that got nerfed.
20% for keeping all 4 injured is fine, and 14-18% for other killers just spreading injures normally is also fine.
Starstruck: Survivors should be split up regardless of Nurse’s perks anyways, and running away from a slug when someone goes down. Even with Agitation, this still works.
Infectious: Run away/be out of the TR/hide after/etc.
Nurse: Mindgame the blinks.
Each source has its own built in counterplay. Before you bring up Midwich or The Game, yes, those are both badly designed and need reworks as well as to be made larger.
I don't see why this is necessary at all.
So what if some perks like Thanatophobia are only powerful on some killers like Legion/Plague? There are so many perks now, you can easily find an alternative for someone else. And the number of available perks will only increase over time.
Oh, I misread your post then.
A better solution rather than evaluating every perk is to look at the base problems. Perks are good on nurse? Well no perks are good on nurse as well because she ignores entire gameplay elements. A moderately experienced nurse can win with her meme addons and no perks cuz of just how she is. This is a problem with nurse, not perks and should be addressed.
Being slugged for four minutes sucks. So after a period of time survivors should be able to bleed out much faster. Stuff like that.
I would like to bring up the "devs reworking perks because of the nurse" since you're not convinced this is the case. This is their update to Awakened Awareness. They didn't flat out say it's because of nurse but like, cmon, who else are they talking about lol
"Awakened Awareness: This perk grants the Killer aura reading while they are carrying a Survivor. On the PTB, this effect also lingered for 2 seconds after the carried Survivor is dropped, hooked, or wiggled free. This effect could be a little oppressive on certain Killers, especially when paired with Lethal Pursuer to extend the aura reading effect and Starstruck to make Survivors Exposed. For the release, we’ve removed the lingering aura reading from Awakened Awareness. As a result, Lethal Pursuer will no longer extend the duration of Awakened Awareness’ aura reading"
So why not make this update from the PTB to those certain Killers only instead of every killer?
You might argue then that certain survivor perks also need to be nerfed against certain killers since they counter some more than others
I mean they did update spine chill for that reason. I don't think survivor perks are much of a problem making them OP in certain situations, because all survivors play the same. Those can be looked at as a whole. Plus killers already have an advantage since they are stronger and can't be killed.
They did recently nerf DH, IW, SC, etc already. I can only think of one maybe two survivor perks that really messes with one killer. I know SC was very strong against silent killers before the update - not as strong now. Plus when you pick that perk you're not guaranteed that killer. So you can bring calm spirit to counter doctor but never get a doctor game all night and it's a wasted perk. And I've played doctor against someone with calm spirit - making them yell isn't the only power he has. They can still be crazy and have to snap out of it and also get unhinged skill checks. So it doesn't counter everything.
DH no longer can be used over traps - I think at least. I haven't tested this. So that's why I don't think it should be done to survivor perks and not every killer perk. Just the one here and there that might need it. I dunno - I still think it's a good idea but looks like I'm the only one so it will never happen lol but interesting to still talk about it.
Because it creates consistency issues when people have to memorize different versions and the devs also have to balance different versions? There is 100 killer perks and like, 29 killers. And this is constantly increasing.
AA didn’t even need the nerf anyways. It was bad even on Nurse.
But it does prove my point that they nerf new perks because of certain killers, i.e. the nurse. I mean they literally said that's why. They said especially when paired with other perks, not only when paired with other perks.
And you're telling me the PTB version of AA was bad on Nurse? Where you can run Starstruck, AA, Lethal Pursuer, and Distressing. So with those perk combos - anyone that was in the Nurse's terror radius as she is hooking someone, she can see their aura for 4 seconds after the hook and blink to them while exposed. That's bad for nurse? Hell even with just AA alone being able to see a survivor that is in your TR while hooking someone for 2 seconds that you can quickly blink to is bad for Nurse? I don't buy that. Pair AA with BBQ and you can see any survivor after a hook unless they are able to get to a locker. Yeah you can say run away from the nurse as she picks up or hooks someone but there are times you can't get away or even think you're outside of her TR and you still get SS. I know this has happened a few times. I strongly disagree with you saying PTB AA was bad for nurse. It was amazing for her and I'm sure if they kept AA the way it was, every nurse would run it.
I don't mean to be rude but with you saying PTB AA on nurse is bad makes me think you're trolling now.
AA is 20m. Not Terror Radius. A survivor that starts 0m away from Nurse can run out before of the 20m before the pickup animation even finishes, meaning the Nurse can’t even look around or walk yet. The linger only applied to people who were still in the 20m when the killer hooks or drops, not people running out before then. If you’re in a corner and can’t get out of 20m, hop in a locker for a little bit while they hook and then leave, and you dodge the aura read meaning they won’t know where to look for you with Starstruck anyways.
BBQ + AA is in 20m and outside of 40m. 20-40m is complete safe zone, and locker is a safe zone at any distance.
I dunno, I still don't see why they need to nerf a perk to the ground just because it's OP on one or two killers and now the perk you use to enjoy playing with on a different killer is now practically gone. It seems like it would make sense to only nerf that perk on those killers only ::shrugs::
Some killers benefit more from some perks than others. With the amount of killers and perks in the game, balancing each perk individually for every killer would just be a too large investment to be worthwhile. The devs want perk diversity. Letting some killers use some perks better than others helps perk diversity.
My bad, I thought it was terror radius. I apologize. Doesn't make it as powerful as I thought it was. So it's not AS strong on nurse. I'll give you that, but I still don't think it's bad on her but now I can see why you think it is bad, so I'm sorry for thinking you were trolling. I think I'm just frustrated with them releasing perks - updating them and then nerfing them to hell because of one killer that it may or may not be OP on and them doing it now to AA because of Nurse, regardless if we think it's bad on her or not.
I mean the reason they nerfed Thana was because of Legion, right? I'm not saying update every single perk or adjust for every single killers, just in small situations like this.
Oh I absolutely agree with this and not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about perks in the sense that are TOO strong on a certain killer. So it would only be just a couple of perks that are treated this way. Just a solution to nerfing perks to the ground because of one killer. It's fine if a perk is stronger on one killer, but not too strong.