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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3936677#Comment_3936677
How can people unironically say this? There have been made A LOT of improvements for Killer. Killer was much harder years ago, and I am not even talking about 2016 or 2017. The game just got better for Killer over time.
wow they patched the game and changed many of the busted ######### that survivors could abuse such as old dead hard and boon: circle of fairness, I guess any complaints from now on are invalid
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@Jacknalls_Paw said:
Out of all the buffs he's going to receive , you are obviously focusing on the only needed nerf.
Vecna is not weak and not is not a bad state, and it will certainly not be this adjustment that will plunge him into a F tier.If you read my post, you'll see that I'm not against nerfing the ability to balance its new duration/speed, I just dont like the way they did it.
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@ad19970 said:
I main Vecna as well, love playing him, but I think if they buff the movement speed and duration of Fly, this nerf is absolutely needed. Otherwise it would be too easy to just fly on top of a survivor, cancel the ability, and get a hit. We'll see by how much they are increasing the cooldown, but if they increase the cooldown duration from 2.5 seconds to let's say 3 seconds, I think that would be completely fine.
Vecna is not in a bad state currently, so him getting a bunch of buffs needs to be counterbalanced in some way.
The current attack cooldown is long enough to prevent you from doing that anyways IMO. I don't think speed or duration would really matter when balancing that cooldown. But it seems like they only increased it by .25 seconds so whatever I guess
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@ArkInk said:
These changes do worry me. I feel like Vecna was in a stable and working state, and such large scale adjustments could very easily throw him off, whether it's making some spells feel bad to use, some magic items being much stronger than others (already kinda a problem tbh), or just making him too weak or too strong in general.
I don't really think he can be too strong with these changes especially when Dracula exists and the magic item buff, they would need to do something very drastic to make him too strong
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PUFAUUS2RNKS/image.png
That's false.
This concern is false in regards to one of the most played. He's below average on his pick rates and has been for a long time. I think them reducing the hit cooldown after his fight will be fine. Its way too long as it is right now. They will have to tweak the addon though with it of course so it doesn't stack.
I think you're misunderstanding. He is one of my most played killers, not the communities'. And if you don't like how long the hit cooldown is now, the change I am talking about is making it longer, not shorter, which sucks.
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@Brokenbones said:
I'm guessing they want Fly to be used more for either map traversal or catching up to a survivor who has a lot of distance on you, rather than trying to use it quickly mid chase to pass through a pallet/window
I'm learning Vecna right now and I prefer not to use fly mid-chase myself since I don't like how it controls/I prefer to play tiles normally or use the other chase spells instead so this change doesn't bother me personally.
I'm fine with them trying to switch it to a mobility tool but this is a bad way to do it in my opinion. The worst part is that it doesn't just nerf your ability to use it in chase though. It heavily nerfs the ability to get hits after using the Spell, period. So if you ARE using it for map control and you use it right to Fly towards a group of survivors on a generator, you will have to just stare at them for a couple of seconds despite using your ability correctly. That is just one example.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
Everyone cries too much about ghost face being so "weak" when he in fact is quite strong. His main "counters" all involve the entire team being a coordinated SWF (spoiler: ALL killers will struggle with this!) where no one touches gens until someone can spot him, and one person basically follows him around and keeps him out of power.
Sounds so terrible for ghost face at first, until you realize that all that time, it means survivors are not doing gens, and if someone is always following you and knocking you out of stealth, that is a free chase you get to start without having to search for the survivors.
Frankly I don't care where big streamers place him on their tier lists. He needs to be fair to go against, and removing him from power at most once before he just face stalks you and gets a free instant down isn't fair.
everyone cries about trapper being so weak when in fact he is quite strong.
except trapper actually has a power that cant be taken away from him and can deny some loops.
ghostface is m1 trash and against swf he struggles more than literally any killer in the game, stop with this "every killer struggles against swf" nonsense as if they are all equal against 4 mans. lots of killers, even b tier killers, have a chance against some swfs but ghostface does not. he has no map mobility, no anti loop at all, and his power can be removed from him in less than 2 seconds. he is mouse 1 in its purest form, but I guess youre right, hes so strong, -
@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
Sure, do all that, but make it so that he cannot build up any mark progress on a survivor while they are revealing him, and also have the mark progress decay like it does for trickster.
yeah lets make the d tier killer even shittier
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931116#Comment_3931116
They said they buff killers when it impacts kill rates and I‘d rather play skillful and in fun ways and get buffs for that than what we have right now.
my bad for not having hope in that very open statement where they said they'd "buff killers" … even when the devs buff killers they do nothing. for example look when they buff a trash m1 killer they just give them some useless 2 second cooldown reduction or something look at ghostface or legion or trapper or trickster still in the pits of hell after their "buffs" because the devs are very open to give survivors anything and everything to counter tunneling but are very stingy to give killers, even the worst ones, anything meaningful
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931111#Comment_3931111
Not tunneling requires way more skill. Tunneling makes the game a lot easier for yourself and miserable for survivors.
so what it requires way more skill? am I gonna sit there with my 9 hooks and 1 kill while the survivors are tea bagging me at the gate and be like "well at least I did the skillfull strategy instead of tunneling which would have got me the win!"
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@NarkoTri1er said:
alright i will break this in quite some arguments.
However, tunneling and camping are almost as strong as ever, with little effort required on the killers side. These strategies are very easy to pull off, and strong, which is why quite a few killer players resort to these strategies.
okay how, just how can tunneling and camping be stronger than ever when anti-tunneling and anti-camping tools are also stronger than ever? I just need to understand this logic.
I think this will cause problems in two ways. For one, the potential gain of new, long term players will be less because of these strategies. New survivor players will play some matches, go against a tunneling and camping killer one too many times, and be done with DBD.
there is something called learning curve in games. For example, CS2 has a very steep learning curve, did it lose many players because of that? No, because people who decided to play it clearly understood game has a steep learning curve. Now what about dbd. Dbd is very known by killer role being easier to play at low skill levels and getting more difficult the more you play with current matchmaking until you are stuck at specific level or you decide to improve. Survivor role is kinda difficult at the beginning, but gets easier and easier the more you learn because of understanding how to use beneficial aspects of your role to get advantage. If you leave the game prematurely, you are simply not ready to improve nor you want to.
And this will also lead to the problem of longer killer queue times, possibly for more than just the first 1 or 2 weeks after Springtraps release. Because many of the new killer players will have less reason to not be interested in DBD after they play some matches. Of course, killers also have to deal with certain frustrations every now and then, but none of them are nearly as prevelant as tunneling and camping are at the moment.
this is such an one-sided argument and kind of fearmongering community with a good ol' "if you don't hold my hand i will leave".
I just think it's a shame BHVR wasn't able to address these issues before the FNAF chapter. I do think that once these changes do happen in the second half of the year, it will bring back quite a few survivor players, which is of course a good thing. But it would have been nice if tunneling and camping was already much less of an issue for the new players that are going to come with the FNAF chapter.
if matchmaking existed in this game and tunneling/camping were properly punished by players, those strats wouldn't be nearly as much present at "soft MMR cap" nor would content creators push tunneling and camping as "only" ways to win.
Veteran players can build a better game for newer players, yet they chose what they want to do.
Also, two side notes: I personally think the go next prevention shouldn't happen until these anti-camp and anti-tunnel changes happen as well. Unless the go next prevention can somehow account for not wanting to go against such strategies.
so your suggestion is that giving up shouldn't be punished more until tunneling and camping (which are already punished hard at actually high skill levels) are addressed (they already are, but you are blatantly ignoring it).
The main way to make specific strategy appear less in your matches is to counter it so hard that people understand they can't win by spamming those strats every match.
And second, I can only pray that Springtrap is very fun to go against on the survivor side. If we get another Kaneki situation, good luck even finding killer matches.
honestly, average survivor nowadays finds majority of killer roster unfun to face nowadays simply because "omg, my opponent doesn't have personality (doesn't let me win)" mindset.
"okay how, just how can tunneling and camping be stronger than ever when anti-tunneling and anti-camping tools are also stronger than ever? I just need to understand this logic."
something something "those tools aren't good enough" something something "any good killer can work past them" something something "if a killer really wants to push past them they can" something something "me and my bad solo q teammates cant use the 70 meta anti tunnel perks at my disposal well so I complain about tunneling because I know people like me will agree" -
are you serious? where did you get the idea that tunneling and camping require no effort on the killer side? unless you are playing an a+ tier killer or the survivor youre tunneling is trash, tunneling actually takes skill nowadays because of the amount of anti-tunnel perks that reset chases and hinder you. try tunneling a survivor who's good in chase with OTR + DS as a m1 killer with no chase power. people need to move on from the mentality that tunneling is a free easy OP win strategy lol
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931087#Comment_3931087
Yes. But this is no argument. 99,99% of games are NOT against such teams. And if you only get 2 Downs in those 99,99% of the games you play, you are just not good. (Let alone that with Pig after the first Down you should have someone who cannot do Gens for some time)
yes I know im just saying… it was more of an example of how strong those teams are/ the disparity of strength
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930484#Comment_3930484
If you only manage to get 2 Downs while 5 Gens are done, you are playing the game wrong, lol.
this is rare but I am not joking when I say if you go against the most cracked team in existence (tbf once in like 200 games) full of comp players on their map it is possible that you can get only 2 downs with 5 gens done IF youre playing a m1 killer. that's how efficient they are in chase and on gens; none of your tools which would usually work do anything against those players
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929045#Comment_3929045
I'm currently attempting a hitless SL1 run of Dark Souls 1….so yes, I would come back for that.
can you send some killer gameplay so I can become as good as you
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928919#Comment_3928919
the perk was bad. I get why you killer mains keep saying it was good (because it was easy to deal with) but damn give it up already it’s been at least a year since it got buffed
why was it bad? because you tried using it against trapper and were shocked to find that it wasn't effective if you ran in a straight line?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928936#Comment_3928936
Alright, man.
I've made my point, I think we're just going in circles here.
the only person that could possibly explain and make sense of what youre trying to say to me is Firellius, I do not listen to anyone else
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928919#Comment_3928919
2 second DS was a bad perk. Even now, DS isn't the greatest perk, but it's fair.
Ad hominem attacks do nothing for your point. It seems all you have are feelings and no facts.
I mean ur asking me why I won't have a discussion with you when you ignore everything I say about DS by responding "it was a bad perk" when it wasn't it was still a meta perk it just required a little more brainpower which survivors are allergic to
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928930#Comment_3928930
Blatant absurdism fallacy.
If you want to actually have a discussion, let me know. If not, I'll save my energy.
you dont have enough experience on the game to have a discussion with me I can tell by your points in previous threads
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928932#Comment_3928932
Absolutely, in most multiplayer games there are strategies that require skill to beat.
In most other competitive games, the amount of skill required is proportional to the amount of skill your opponent is putting in. Some scrub-killer things are fairly easy to perform, but they're also typically not that difficult to counter either once you know what the trick is.
That's why tunnelling gets the complaints. There's no trick, and the skill required to beat it is extremely disproportional to the skill required to do it.
You don't have to be a Master rank tournament winner to beat E Honda's headbutt. It's a knowledge check, not actually massively unbalanced.
idk what to tell you, its balanced out by the fact that 99% of the killers who do tunnel and need to tunnel like m1 killers will eat ######### against a player that knows how to counter it and it will result in a loss. there are plenty of strategies in every game that are easy to perform but if your opponent knows how to counter it it will screw you over and they'll get the win
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928929#Comment_3928929
What about before you're skilled enough? When you're just average at the game like everyone else, should you just be expected to lose by default until you're out the other end in the top ranks of players so you actually get to play the game?
There's a degree to which scrub-killer knowledge checks can be reasonable in a game, but it should be within your power to counter them if you actually have the knowledge, which you can't with tunnelling. The killer just gets a massively easy chase on you… end of sentence. There's no "but you can do X". You just have to be better than them by orders of magnitude.
when youre new to the game, you die alot. some strategies require skill to beat and new players don't have that. don't see this complained about in any other competitive game
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928925#Comment_3928925
Having to be exponentially better than the opponent to see value is not how proper counterplay works. Likewise, even if you ARE exponentially better than the Killer and do successfully take them on a run; you still need your teammates to do gens, which is completely out of your hands.
ok ur right the gens should do themselves while im getting tunneled
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928925#Comment_3928925
Well, that wasn't the question, though.
The question is, if the counterplay is significantly harder for you to perform than it is for your opponent to do the thing you're trying to counter, is that not unbalanced? Additionally, if the counterplay requires specific perks on top of being difficult to perform even with them, is that not unhealthy for the game's variety and player expression?
Those are the two questions being asked here. Hell, if you think the killer needs to run gen slowdown, surely you can understand how that's not great for the game and should be adjusted.
no, it is not unbalanced, because if you become skilled enough and can do it then it causes the killer to lose the game. next question
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928922#Comment_3928922
I've never understood this argument. Isn't it obvious that you're agreeing it's unbalanced and needs changes?
I mean, survivors have to be significantly better in chase to beat tunnelling than the killer needs to be to attempt to tunnel them, AND they have to only run three perks for the rest of the game. Is that not a very clear-cut example of something heavily favouring one side?
no u silly billy… that's how countering something works…. and if you counter it the killer loses the entire game because ur teammates do generators while you fend of the tunneling POS. and both sides need to run certain perks, just like the killer has to run gen slowdown, this is not old news
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928918#Comment_3928918
That shouldn't really be a controversial statement, honestly.
What counterplay do YOU have, specifically, to tunnelling? Specifically I'm talking about solo queue survivors, what do they have access to, reliably, to beat tunnelling?
the counterplay is called getting better in chase and running either DS or off the record instead of just joining the bandwagon of people who try to imply that tunneling is the most overpowered and heinous thing in the entire game
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926066#Comment_3926066
That 3 second stun was functionally 2 seconds after animations.
"Good Survivors"
As if good Killers wouldn't either avoid it outright (like me) or eat it tactically.
Can't believe I'm seeing someone argue that 3-second DS was OP in the big 2025.
3 sec ds was still s tier meta perk, people didn't know how to use it correctly so we had people like you saying it was bad and it got buffed again. such is the case with many many survivor perks in this game
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925869#Comment_3925869
I mean, yeah, the killer's objective is to kill, but if they're able to do that too quickly with too little counterplay, that's a problem. That's why tunnelling needs changes.
As for not touching the objectives on the other side, they did. Three years ago, in patch 6.1.0. They haven't done it since then because there generally hasn't been any need to, the base progression speed of generators isn't really a problem anymore. If there are problems, it comes from the other side of the equation (how well killers can perform, most typically stymied by maps or specific perk combos but occasionally from their own power level), or from progression tools.
Now that we've narrowed it down that far, we're back on track for what a reasonable complaint would look like - if you wanna say toolboxes are extremely overdue for a rework because they've been problematic for years, I'm on board, I'll agree with you. You just do need to be that specific or all you're complaining about is your opponents doing their objective.
The fact of the matter is, if you want to talk about how fast survivors complete their objective vs how fast the killer can build pressure, the first part of that isn't the problem anymore, not for a long time now. Where problems exist, it's with the other half- with how fast/effectively killers can create their pressure. For some killers, on some maps, there are some problems there.
It's not a problem because of slowdown perks being nerfed, though, they're not supposed to be the main source of pressure and they already aren't for a good chunk of the cast at this point. It's more to do with how well a killer's power can engage with the fundamentals of the game, or how the resources/layout of a map are constructed. If those two things don't get in your way, you don't need slowdown perks, they're just nice to have.
no way you just said tunneling has very little counterplay… you silly billy why would you think that…
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925790#Comment_3925790
I just explained why that's not a double standard, yeah.
Killers going for their objective quickly is unbalanced on a system-mechanics level.
Survivors going for their objective quickly is unbalanced only if they bring a specific build.
Complaints about those things are completely valid as long as they're levelled at the thing that's actually unbalanced.
so are you implying that tunneling is just an easy OP strategy that anyone can win with by saying it is unbalanced? because unless you are playing a killer above A tier, tunneling is actually hard if you would like to fathom that due to the amount of endurance, body blocks, and other mechanics you must push through.
and ok, you are right. they simply dont compare. so when I load into the match as ghostface or trickster and see three survivors split up on three generators I can rest assured that it is balanced because they didn't bring a specific build. are you seriously saying that the only way gen speeds can be unfair is when survivors bring specific builds like 4 BNPs? because that tells me everything I need to know -
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925775#Comment_3925775
Still waiting for an answer to "what should survivors be doing other than gens?".
Because killers can spread pressure between multiple survivors, and have comeback builds and mechanics. There are end game builds designed specifically around all gens being completed.
As I mentioned, survivors, apparently can stand afk in the open, unlock chests, and maybe cleanse dull totems (as long as you aren't running inner healing/strength and not every totem, in case the killer has noed).
there are two ways survivors can do gens just as there are two ways the killers can do their objective. survivors can group up on gens which is less efficient than splitting up. if you want to go tit for tat then this would be the equivalent of a killer spreading out their hooks because both strategies are less efficient. or they can split iup on gens and completely assfuck any killer who doesn't have mobility (haven't seen any basekit changes for that yet). the killer equivalent is tunneling and camping, because that is more efficient. you just want survivors to be able to play however they want and want the killer to be beaten repeatedly with a club for wanting to match that efficiency in any way
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925775#Comment_3925775
You're phrasing it in a very aggressive way but like… yes?
It is reasonable to be annoyed at killers leveraging a basekit problem to get people out ASAP, and it's not super reasonable to be annoyed at survivors for just doing their objective normally.
The better comparison to tunnelling would be survivors bringing toolbox builds, because they're are massively unbalanced and give huge reward for little effort. Complaining about that would be reasonable, complaining about survivors just generally being efficient isn't, really.
im not phrasing it in a very aggressive way lmao… when the killer goes for their objective quickly in response to survivors doing the same thing it is seen as a problem that must need fixing with 2 million new meta anti-tunnel perks and mechanics. if you ever complain about it as killer you are gaslit by others who will tell you you're just a bad player and those strategies are never needed ever.
its funny not only due to the fact that the same treatment (behavior-wise and balance wise) is NEVER given towards survivors, but in fact killers are blamed for complaining about survivors doing their objective quickly. it is literally never the survivor's fault -
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925750#Comment_3925750
"Tunneling gens" is an ignorant statement that doesn't try to even major differences, let alone nuance, which I clearly outlined in the post you didn't read.
BTW, survivor "rule book" only exists because it hasn't been addressed. The "killer rule book" stopped being talked about because the devs targeted and eliminated all of those complaints already, many of them years ago.
ETA: and exactly who is allowing them to finish a gen? Seems like there should be someone in the game with the job of pressuring survivora and giving them side tasks so they aren't able to just do gens, perhaps.
survivors complain about killer going for objective as quick as possible = reasonable, here is 700 anti-tunnel and anti-slug and anti-everything that the killer can use to gain leverage on survivors
killers complaining about survivor efficiency = killers fault, stop complaining, what else are survivors supposed to do
lol -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924637#Comment_3924637
Do we know what the new systems are?
I can take a wild guess
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924637#Comment_3924637
I might have to tunnel or camp. But my point is, not every game I play will be:
- With a weak M1-Killer
- on Garden of Joy
- against a 4man SWF
Those are three quite specific requirements. Yet you people act as if it is the norm to have those kind of games. I can also play with Nurse on any Map against a bunch of poor Solos. And nobody needs to tunnel or camp there, yet there are players who are still doing that.
ok, you WILL have to tunnel and camp. not might. you will.
except that its near impossible to do it because m1 killers cannot shred through those defenses.
these are specific requirements, so what? some games are simply unwinnable and we are just fine with that? -
@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924623#Comment_3924623
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZGPJRP3Z4RPT/dbd-killer-prestiges.jpg
I took this picture to show what my killer prestige levels look like.
I play killer. I prefer it to survivor.
Survivors are not very efficient on generators on average.
Skill issue.
checkmate!
"If you think they are, that's a skill issue."
top 5 gaslight statement of all time -
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924625#Comment_3924625
I said you dont need to tunnel and camp CONSTANTLY. I mean, you thought you had your "Got you!"-moment here, but you ignored a very important word. And yes, I stand with that - you dont need to tunnel and camp constantly. Do you need to do it sometimes? Sure. But this is not an issue.
But there are people who do it in every game and this is not needed.
ok then answer my question. if you were in that game then what would you do now that survivors have all 5 infinity stones in terms of anti camp and anti tunnel (and are only getting more)? you can't tunnel because your killer can't shred through those defenses, and you can't 12 hook because the survivors dont go down in 20 seconds so what is the solution?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924605#Comment_3924605
Yeah, thought the same. With most maps not really having many strong Loops anymore. And I dont really know how it can be 2025 and people are still thinking they only lose when facing SWFs.
In the end it is the great picture - Killers claim that they feel that they have the need to tunnel and camp (they dont need to tunnel or camp to win games, at least not constantly), so the Devs are trying to make it harder to tunnel and camp. And if there are issues and Killer experience gets worse, they will adjust the Killers. Which is a win-win overall.
Yet people are doomposting that Killer will be unplayable. I can only imagine that those players dont really play the game for a long time.
play a m1 killer against 4 man garden of joy and come back to me saying you dont need to tunnel and camp and can 12 hook against that
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924616#Comment_3924616
No they're not lol
If you think they are, that's a skill issue.
I try to play for 12 hooks as much as humanly possible and limit my regression perks to no more than 2 and I still win most of the time.
we have our first gaslighter
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924598#Comment_3924598
Because tunneling and camping is the meta in comp DBD, because all four survivors will be ultra-efficient on generators, cracked at looping, and locked in trying to win as hard as they possibly can, something that doesn't happen in pub games basically ever. If you do that in pub matches you will win basically every match. This is how we get stuff like MomoSeventh winning literally over a thousand games in a row.
And I know and I don't care, Babysitter is a purely altruistic anti-tunnel perk. You can't use it to bodyblock for allies since it doesn't extend the endurance effect or allow you to get off the killer's shoulder like DS, you can't use it to extend gen time like Reassurance. Even Blood Rush is more abusable, since you can use it to immediately reset Sprint Burst right before healing or getting on a generator.
The entire point of Babysitter is that the unhooker is trying to get the killer to switch targets to them. That's the only way in which it can be used. The benefits it provides the unhooked survivor are only useful if the killer is trying to tunnel them directly off hook.
I'm sorry but if you have a problem with that, you're playing kinda scummy.
tunneling and camping is the meta in pubs too, survivors are equally if not more efficient on gens in pubs because everything is allowed, and 4 mans do contain players who are cracked at looping.
babysitter was an S tier perk and it was still buffed.
it was one of like 50 strong anti-tunnel perks the survivors have and it was still buffed.
but you are 100% correct, I only have a problem with S tier perks being buffed because I "play scummy" :D always the scapegoat argument -
@crogers271 said:
its a whole other can of worms to point out the fact that not a single thing here addresses the killer's fun by nerfing survivor efficiency. I dont find it fun when I'm playing Legion and 4 survivors are split up on 4 different gens with nothing I can do about it, where is my anti-genrush feature?10 seconds where added to gens once upon a time, that just seems to be forgotten.
But it also sounds like what you find not fun is not winning, and accepting that you might win/lose is part of a multiplayer game. People want gameplay elements that don't leave them stuck not doing anything for long periods of time.
Also every player is entitled to what they find fun / not fun, but BHVR has to consider their overall audience.
yeah, if you can take away anything from my post its the fact that I hate not winning
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@Garboface said:
Killer gameplay is just fine for me. The game would be boring if the killer was guaranteed a hook when they already move at 115% speed compared to 100%. If that is insufficient, I don't know what to tell you. Killers have some pretty strong perks and abilities.
Intellectual
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924567#Comment_3924567
Literally nobody cares about what the invisible MMR regards as a draw or loss.
Yes, it's silly that the MMR regards the survivors abandoning the match as a draw for them. Yes, that should be changed. But also, nobody actually wants high MMR in this game, I guarantee you that the survivors who abandon would much rather regard the match as a loss so their MMR will go down.
"Quick, if I hit the abandon I get to avoid losing this match!" -said no sane survivor who is currently slugged or on hook ever.
If you downed all 4 survivors and they abandon, you win and they lose.
Also, complaining about Babysitter? Really? The most unproblematic, least abusable anti-tunnel perk in the entire game? Yes it's banned in comp, but you shouldn't really use comp rules to determine what's fine for pub matches, they are not playing the same game as everyone else.
why should we not use comp as a metric to determine a perk's strength? if the perk is banned then I'm going to assume it's pretty damn good. I assume you haven't seen the clip of the survivor on twitter going mach ######### after getting unhooked?
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@Lixadonna said:
We don't know what any of those features entail and surely things like that will come with a catch. It'll lead to Survivor nerfs after that.
If history repeats itself I can't be confident.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3890369#Comment_3890369
If you think that in the year 2025 that being hooked is somehow a "misplay" on the Survivors part, I really think that says everything about your argument.
It is not 2017 DBD anymore. Getting hooked is a part of normal gameplay. Survivors are not meant to be able to run the Killer the entire game. Being hooked is not a misplay, just like a Survivor being unhooked is not a misplay from the Killer.
lolol. put that there because I knew you would nitpick it and just ignore the rest of my argument.
im convinced none of the people who disagree with my stance (that spreading hooks is a bad strategy) actually have an argument for why its good, because nearly every person who disagrees with me has either tried to gaslight me and my knowledge of the game, ignored what I said, or in your case just nitpick one random thing and ignore the core of my argument. some have even done all three! -
@CrypticGirl said:
u r us vs them incarnate
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3890369#Comment_3890369
And the pot calls the kettle black. If you're having to resort to insults, it's time to stop commenting in this thread.
except my comment actually focuses on something to do with the game and my argument, which is efficiency from both sides and the hypocrisy surrounding it.
yours focuses on insulting someone, making broad statements about one side, and encouraging someone to quit the game because you disagree with them. -
@Cataca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3890506#Comment_3890506
Op is full of it and this thread has derailed and if you believe him your gullible. Its easier to tunnel get someone out and drop the gen efficiency then going for the 12 hook no camping, tunneling experiment those ccs do
care to explain why or do you just feel like saying something with no real argument/support like the countless other people who have disagreed with me here
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3890363#Comment_3890363
What exactly did that statement accomplish?
You have managed to completely ignore all of my points, which only serves to hurt your own argument.
it shows the hypocrisy between survivor efficiency vs killer efficiency.
apparently we need literal godmode for survivors who are unhooked (when being hooked is a result of their own misplays lmao) and if anyone disagrees then they should just "not tunnel"
just pretty sick of people suggesting the most obnoxious things in order to prevent the killer from doing their objective efficiently when I never hear anything that stops the survivors from doing the same -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3890316#Comment_3890316
It's very much addressing what you said.
If you choose option A, you are not stopping gen repair in general, just that one survivor doing gen repair. The other three survivors are also free to do generators in this scenario and will most likely loop around to do the one that's nearly finished.
If you choose option B, you are not stopping gen repair in general either, just the survivor you're chasing… except if you're not nearby for the person who just got off hook, they could at least feel the need to reset, which keeps them off generators a little bit longer.
The literal only difference is that picking option A is trying to tunnel for the easier chase, it doesn't have anything to do with gen repair.
u can try to justify it, but what im saying is that it is simply not fun to see a survivor running towards a gen after getting unhooked and you know that there is nothing you can do to stop them because both situations allow that survivor to either make you suffer from their perk/godmode or allow them to do the gen. its not fun especially when its enabled by you doing your objective. and people wonder why killers are slugging, because situations like that are unfun.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3890302#Comment_3890302
Have you considered chasing the person who unhooked them?
I'm not sure how I can make the intention any more clear. If you simply, idk, don't tunnel; this system will never affect you.
Someone is going to do gens, that's kind of inevitable. It is better for you if someone injured does gens.
basekit deadlock… if you simply dont genrush, this system will never affect you
