StalkingYou

@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958413#Comment_3958413
Still waiting~

Can I join your hivemind?

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 7, 2025

@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958119#Comment_3958119
Otz's Hardcore Survivor challenge is one of the most disgusting things in the DBD content creator sphere. A group of players that literally play for a living create smurf accounts to bully a bunch of baby killers, then upload it as "content" for all the world to see. It's the single reason why I refuse to watch any of their content.

Always found it pretty cringe

It's the same as those Noob3 clones whose entire content is just bullying baby killers and editing the video like an MLG montage, it's just not as obnoxious.

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 7, 2025

@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958307#Comment_3958307
Oh, sorry, is that a killer exclusive line of reasoning?

No

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 7, 2025

@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958377#Comment_3958377
Yet you still ignored them. (ps sorry for the ping Jesterkind)
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957855#Comment_3957855

[If you manage to guess correctly I'll get us all to do a 180 on opinions for kicks and giggles]

I always thought the forums was a place for the deranged but three people holding one account confirms it

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 7, 2025

@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958301#Comment_3958301
Welp the "more reasonable" people tried to reason with ya but you ignored them. In fact the reason you got us (shared account between 3 wackos) was cause of that (currently missing) outburst instead of…like anything else. Heck, we gave you our version of tunneling and it doesn't really handicap you beyond NOT immediately gunning for the unhooked. But go on, keep digging deeper. Were not at 6 ft yet.

Care to share who the three people are? I can take a wild guess

Also, the only reasonable person I've ever talked to here is Jesterkind :)

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 7, 2025

@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957946#Comment_3957946
That clearly means that team Invictus was not competent, since competent survivors are unbeatable.

Because one single match invalidates thousands of others and proves your point completely

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 6, 2025

@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957851#Comment_3957851
Rulebreaker's Light tunneling - going after the recently unhooked survivor until someone else eats a hit and then transferring to that one. Deviates from our "super nice" of hook carousel. The reason you have to explain is because as stated previously to TimberGoingDown, people have different versions of those words and we all (hopefully) want to be on the same page in a discussion.
If you want us to specify very well. When a survivor is unhooked don't go out of your way to chase and rehook that survivor. Ex: Unhook happens while your chasing someone across the map and you return to the hook immediately. Bad killer. The unhook happens in your face and the unhooker does nothing to help the unhooked as you go after the unhooked. Fair killer. The unhook is in your face and the unhooker takes a hit yet you still go after the unhooked. Bad killer. Unhook in face and the unhooker takes a hit but after a bit you realize it's going to be a time sink and leave where upon you stumble on the unhooked and murder them again. Fair killer. You hooked someone else and the unhook happened and you return and chase the unhooked. Rude but fair killer. Don't camp unless you absolutely know there's a survivor trying to obviously bait you into a chase (in which case it's their fault) or you've hooked someone next to a powered door (your fault but it would be completely stupid to leave without a target in this scenario). Chasing a survivor around the hook is not camping, its fair game. Don't slug people just to bleed them out. Feel free to leave slugs when they're under pallets. Dont repeatedly walk on the survivor to taunt them if they did nothing (we refuse to call it what others do as it looks to stupid to even acknowledge as such to us). All this does not apply if the survivor in question runs object of obsession (fk em).
That big ol wall of text is OUR version of "don't be a ****" and its probably missing things we cant think of. Obviously not everyone will agree or even care because everyone is free to do as they will but that's something we'd (Rulebreakers) like. Also note some of those examples would fall under our version of tunneling, yet are under "fair killer" to us such as "The unhook happens in your face and the unhooker does nothing to help the unhooked as you go after the unhooked. Fair killer." Tunneling itself isn't being a **** to us, but how people constantly use it, and at the start with 5 gens too, is. How much of the above is that unreasonable?
oh and I gotta ask, what about the survivors who are ultra efficient too and split up on gens and are good in chase? I'm sure you have the same attitude towards them and tell them to stop playing like dicks right?
Ultra efficient doesn't completely remove the killers ability to stop them and bar possibly repeated blast mines, have little else practical to do unless the killer gives them something to do. As killer, not tunneling doesn't mean your not progressing the game, survivors running up to the killer begging for chases is borderline asking for death. Bully squads are often the ones who need to stop being ****s such as full sabo squads doing everything to prevent hooks or blind squads with the same reason. Being good in chase isn't being a ****. Is the killer a **** for being good? No. Nock down and hook everyone in 5 minutes? Good for you. The asymmetrical nature of the game gives different ways to being a **** for each side. Being good at the game, is one shared where neither can be blamed.
you know, its so funny. your previous comments are basically asking me why I don't want to expand and define anything I'm saying, and ive already say why: because its a waste of time talking to you people.
Imagine how we feel…
You point out to us:
like if I'm playing a mouse 1 killer I literally do not have the chase capacity to go and play nice because that relies on downing people quickly
we responded with:
Not everyone focuses on running face first into the survivors screaming "WAAAAAAAAGH", some require a different approach.
With some examples before we said that. We gave an counter argument, it may not be one you like but it exists.

I get your message, like I said. When I'm playing Clown against a 4 man who is trying everything they can to win, I will make sure to purposely handicap myself because if I don't, I am rude and a bad killer. You are right.

(I should have known that trying to reason with someone who keeps referring to themselves as a collective and in the first person is probably a bad idea, though)

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 6, 2025

@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957827#Comment_3957827
You realize we immediately come into the problem of "what defines light tunneling" since you refused to state anything, but starting from the top.
actually hard to do if you're playing a killer who needs to do it
if you are playing a killer b tier and below there is a high chance you will need to employ some light tunneling at least to win against a team who is even decently efficient and decent in chase
Yes its hard, but not a single killer absolutely, 100%, needs to do it to win assuming everyones on an equal skill level. Hard doesn't mean necessary.
So whats "light tunneling"? Do we get to define it? (Yes we're still not over you not providing definitions to put it lightly)
like if I'm playing a mouse 1 killer I literally do not have the chase capacity to go and play nice because that relies on downing people quickly;
All killers have powers they use to hunt down survivors. Trapper sets his traps so he can cut down chase time, Ghostface stealthfully ambushes survivors and can mark for instant downs, Pig has both stealth and one of the best stalls after a down. Not everyone focuses on running face first into the survivors screaming "WAAAAAAAAGH", some require a different approach.
so whenever someone says that killers shouldn't complain about tunneling being nerfed and should instead learn to play "normal" the only thing I can wonder is how exactly they want us to play.
Can only speak for the 3 of us but it kinda boils to "dont be a ****". It ain't that complex, its pretty close to basic empathy even. If as survivor I get unhooked and run into the killer on accident, fair game as its my fault. If as survivor im hooked and the killer stops chasing that injured survivor that was across the map to come try for me (ironically its usually those "s-tiers" you bring up, aka the ones whom you claim "they do not need to tunnel and camp" yet inexplicably do), im going to sigh a "really?" to the screen as im chased practically immediately. Bonus points if at 4+ gens when the killer is running 3-4 slowdowns.
do you want us to go to one survivor, another survivor, another survivor, another survivor, and repeat the cycle? do you seriously expect people to be able to do that against any team with an IQ of 20 while playing ghostface or dredge?
See, whom here said THAT one? Know the Rulebreakers didn't~ You should have defined what you mean by tunneling as THAT sounds more like hook carousel and not tunneling to us.
As an aside, im pretty sure an survivor with an IQ of 20 would be dying repeatedly since the normal range is around 80-110. So in that particular case, yes mr. bond we expect them to kill.

light tunneling - going after a survivor once after they've been unhooked throughout the game. slightly deviating from the super nice playstyle for one second. different than hard tunneling at 5 gens. why do I have to explain this lmao?

you want definitions, I ask you to define how you want us to play, and you give me the most vague answer possible. "don't play like a dick" from my experience literally every way I play is me playing like a dick. so that doesn't help much

oh and I gotta ask, what about the survivors who are ultra efficient too and split up on gens and are good in chase? I'm sure you have the same attitude towards them and tell them to stop playing like dicks right?

you know, its so funny. your previous comments are basically asking me why I don't want to expand and define anything I'm saying, and ive already say why: because its a waste of time talking to you people. I point out and state why some killers are simply too weak to play in the super wholesome way you want them to, and you just go "nuh uh, just get better skillz" it really does prove that none of you ever had any argument and just want to gaslight players into playing the way you want them to.

"I dont give a ######### if you are playing clown against a 4 man who is doing everything in their power to win. You shouldn't be playing like a dick and tunneling anyone!"

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 5, 2025

@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956960#Comment_3956960
So if recently unhooked survivor does body block killer from going for the un-hooker, must killer still pursue un-hooker and lose time or killer may instead focus on the unhooked survivor instead? Will this still count as tunneling?
I just wonder why it's ok for survivors to play efficiently and do gens, ignoring everything else while it's rather bad for a killer to do the same and get rid of any survivor as soon as possible in the game that rewards survivors who focus on getting gens fast and does punish killer who tries to spread the hooks instead?

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 5, 2025

@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957823#Comment_3957823
Some people ACTUALLY dont differentiate any slugging. I had a team last night swarm me after a down last night as Bubba. They said I was playing like a dick for not letting them get a flashlight save. I had 3 ppl swarming a down under a party pallet until all 4 of them were downed...
I tried to let them reset after I got my hooks because... it was a 5 cake game. They all DCed.

well its just the attitude on the forums; the second the killer deviates even an inch from the wholesome nice boop pig 12 hook playstyle they want you to play as, you are a trash killer and your evil strategies should be nerfed immediately

in What the slugging, camping and tunneling changes should consist of when they release this year. Comment by StalkingYou July 5, 2025

@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957535#Comment_3957535
wow yea im totally going to believe that because the survivors are TELLING me it isn't true.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B00YINEI7FI6/1000000600.jpg
So that's my (this poor alone Rulebreaker) official stats tracked since... whenever they started. As you see it's relatively equal (achievements left are survivor ones and springtrap jump scares). Would you call me a survivor? Killer? A guy who plays both ends? What I can tell you from personal experience is that at the very least OUR definition of tunneling that we gave is not necessary to win. You don't need to tunnel from the get go to win. You don't need to go out of your way to target one survivor till they die. You can "play nice" (depending on what you call that) and still come out on top (or atleast not be a ***).
Could also deny that "camping and tunneling has been nerfed to hell" but that's also because our definition of "to hell" is very likely different than yours.

you usually do not need to tunnel from the get go,. I don't do that. but people want tunneling to be completely obliterated when its already been nerfed heavily and is actually hard to do if you're playing a killer who needs to do it

if you are playing a killer b tier and below there is a high chance you will need to employ some light tunneling at least to win against a team who is even decently efficient and decent in chase

like if I'm playing a mouse 1 killer I literally do not have the chase capacity to go and play nice because that relies on downing people quickly; most killers in fact do not have oppressive enough chase powers to make this happen which is why S tier killers exist and ignore all anti-tunnel and anti-camp. not because they can shred through anti-tunnel to begin with, but because they do not need to tunnel and camp; their powers allow them to down people quickly and brute-force chases. they CAN play nice due to that.

so whenever someone says that killers shouldn't complain about tunneling being nerfed and should instead learn to play "normal" the only thing I can wonder is how exactly they want us to play. do you want us to go to one survivor, another survivor, another survivor, another survivor, and repeat the cycle? do you seriously expect people to be able to do that against any team with an IQ of 20 while playing ghostface or dredge?

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 5, 2025

@LordGlint said:
So just so I understand this...
https://youtube.com/shorts/ar--P50IzhM?si=meFbIt_6PiHX3lpG
If a killer makes a play like this one, the first 2 downed would just...get up?

yes because killer is not allowed to down more than one person at a time

in What the slugging, camping and tunneling changes should consist of when they release this year. Comment by StalkingYou July 5, 2025

@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957063#Comment_3957063
No. It's also not unique to survivors, its an issue that effects both sides and, more broadly, games in general. In DbD some killers act like survivors want to penalize anything but 12 hooking, even when they are being told that isn't true.
A comparison to this that a lot of early multiplayer FPS games had to go through was 'spawn camping' (I suspect some version of this complaint still exists). Just for clarity, this would be in a game with respawns after death where an enemy player/team would kill people as they spawned in without a chance to defend themselves. It was generally seen as 'unfun' and 'simplistic' as the one side had no chance and little skill was being exhibited, while others worried that nerfing/eliminating spawn camping would limit 'strategic opportunities' (pretty much like the tunneling discussions).
Now even though we have a general definition, people still frequently meant different things. Did it only count if you killed the person as they spawned in? What about the door to the spawn area? Or the hallway outside? At what point was it no longer spawn camping, but just regular gameplay?
There's no official source where we can look up terms like tunneling or spawn camping to draw the line. That's why people need to be specific about what they mean when discussing game changes. Which isn't really that hard and the majority of threads on things like tunneling over the past few years are people talking past each other because they mean different things.

I have no knowledge of what BHVR will do, but I highly doubt by anti-tunnel they mean 12 hooking and we're much more likely looking at either more basekit protections off the hook or something that makes it more difficult for the killer to eliminate a survivor on three straight hooks, or some benefit to the survivors if the killer does so (I doubt the last one though it gets suggested a lot).
Maybe they'll do something more extreme than that. Sometimes they make decisions that I think are really bad, but given how they've operated in the past, I find the idea that its going to be a radical overhaul incredibly unlikely.

>In DbD some killers act like survivors want to penalize anything but 12 hooking, even when they are being told that isn't true.

wow yea im totally going to believe that because the survivors are TELLING me it isn't true. yeah im 100% going to just believe what they say when every single way to play other than bending over backwards and trying to keep as many people alive for as long as possible before actually killing them has been nerfed. camping and tunneling has been nerfed to hell and you cannot deny that. now its time for slugging. maybe if they actually implemented drastic measures to allow the "nice playstyle" to actually be effective, this would not be a problem. but people would rather gaslight the ever loving ######### out of anyone who says this by saying that bending over backwards for the survivors is actually a GOOD strategy, ur just not skilled enough. reeks of the aura of people who go "just pressure generators"

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 5, 2025

@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956953#Comment_3956953
Not sure what happened to the version @Rulebreaker originally quoted, but I'll respond to this one.
I'm not going to answer silly questions if you refuse to even talk about my point
I have already, you can see it up above in the post where I respond to your card game comparison.
you want killers to play is objectively not a good strategy and that you essentially want killers to handicap themselves.
Because that's not true.
You can play the game however you like. This thread has been going on for awhile, but I don't think anyone has been arguing for a "rulebook". People have been arguing about BHVR nerfing an overpowered strategy. You're arguing against a strawman.
Game elements get nerfed and buffed on both sides all the time. That's all anyone is talking about.
But they're adding basekit unbreakable, so I guess there's no point in continuing this loop.
Highly unlikely we're going to get basekit unbreakable. They tried that and it didn't work. It's possible that we'll get some form of unbreakable for extreme situations, but I think even that is unlikely. But I'll wait to see the specifics of whatever they roll out for their changes before I start doom posting about it.
12 hook and every other strategy should be nerfed. So that is what you are going to get.
So this is why I ask you to define things. If you think by tunneling survivors are saying killers need to 12 hook, that would indeed be absurd. 12 hooking is very different from targeting the first survivor found until they are dead on 3 hooks, its even different than the definition @Rulebreaker put up.
DbD is an elimination game. In my opinion it should remain an elimination game, but targeting a single survivor, trying to tunnel them out as fast as possible, ignoring all other survivors, leads to a bad game. It isn't very engaging, the strategy is extremely simple for the reward it can give, and it means the game is overwhelmingly decided based on the perk loadouts that the survivors bring.
The game has had many problems. Infinites, 3 genning, facecamping, hatch mechanic, insta gen completing BMPs, exhaustion that recovered while running, etc. BHVR has, as they should, tried to fix these. Tunneling is, as it should be, one of their things on the list. Whether the change they make or not will help we won't know until we see what they go with.

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 5, 2025

@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956959#Comment_3956959
Tunneling: Going after the most recently hooked survivor despite there being another equally viable target without attempting to chase another.
See how easy it is to define a version of tunneling?

thanks for the clarification of what tunneling is

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 3, 2025

@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956953#Comment_3956953
So you can't give basic definitions of what each of those are?

no because im a trash kiler who relies on those Strats every game and I know nothing

and also because these questions are redundant and are meant to distract from simple logic like I said

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 3, 2025

@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955545#Comment_3955545
We should not be writing paragraphs here
Discussions and game design are complex issues that require time, but I'll do my best to keep it brief.
FFS, can we stop beating around the bush and pretending like this is a viable strategy to beat teams that are good in chase and crank gens
I'm assuming we all play the game and have watched known streamers such as Otz be forced to tunnel or camp at least once to win a game.
1: How do you define 'viable'? As I and others have mentioned in prior threads, tunneling is really strong, that doesn't mean other strategies aren't viable.
2: Going all the way back to the origin of the thread, you aren't meant to win every game. Even someone like Otz isn't meant to win every game. I watch Otz, Hens, Scott, Spookyloopz and they win the vast majority of their killer games sometimes with extreme restrictions and challenges in place.
You want killer to spread hooks and play "normal".
You and Firellius just over-complicate this each time because it's very hard to dispute simple logic without adding unnecessary fluff to make yourself sound right.
You seem to have great insight into not just the game but the thought processes of random people on the internet.
I'm not over complicating. I'm asking basic questions. What is tunneling? What is viable? What win percentage do you think the killer should have? How to determine what a good team is or not based off the data in a single pub match?
The thing about 'simple logic' is that it prevents people from questioning their idea or preconceived notions by even addressing basic challenges.

I'm not going to answer silly questions if you refuse to even talk about my point that the way you want killers to play is objectively not a good strategy and that you essentially want killers to handicap themselves.

But they're adding basekit unbreakable, so I guess there's no point in continuing this loop. It is clear that you, numerous other players, and BHVR themselves only want killers to play super nice wholesome boop pig chungus 12 hook and every other strategy should be nerfed. So that is what you are going to get.

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 3, 2025

@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951159#Comment_3951159
You can call it "working backwards" but can you explain how my statement is actually false?
Sure. I'll start with your premise which you put at the end.
The fact that neither you or anyone else has been trying to argue that those cards are actually good is proof enough for me that you guys know that splitting hooks is a bad strategy, but you still want killers to do it.
What is a bad strategy? I've asked a couple of times for you to define what you mean and you don't and that leaves me guessing at it (which creates a secondary confusion because we don't know what BHVR will actually do). I want to say @Firellius argued this in a different thread, but you are describing something as bad in comparison to something that is way too strong.
You seem to be defining as 'bad' anything less than non-optimal strategy. Instead you should be looking at whether something is too strong to be in the game and what the viability of other options would be if it was changed (and again, we don't know what they are going to do).
The whole point of the thread is that tunneling is too strong, thus deserving to be nerfed. Once upon a time for survivors running anything but instagen completing BNPs was bad strategy. Then running anything but Dead Hard. Then for a while MFT.
Anything else was bad strategy, but they deserved to be nerfed because they were too strong (and in most cases, also boring and hurt the theme of the game).
Also to your comment about wanting 'killers to do it', I, and others, are arguing that BHVR should change it. I don't think survivors should have avoided using the above just because they were too strong, just as I don't expect killers to avoid overpowered tactics.
You can play the game however you want, but BHVR should change them.
If you're playing a card game and you've intentionally decided to only use bad cards (while your opponent can use whatever they want) and STILL win, I am going to assume your opponent is pretty bad.
So this is a good hypothetical and it shows three problems some people have approaching the game.
Problem 1: Card games, like DbD, have lots of randomness. You can handicap yourself and win, the opponents could handicap themselves and you could still lose. You would need multiple games to access the skill of the opponents (especially in DbD which has lots of guessing game elements). As the OP said, you aren't meant to win every game and so taking any loss as a failure of strategy is a bad approach.
Problem 2: You've already made up your mind on what the 'bad' strategy is. In a card game, this would be like if you believed a player should pursue an aggressive playstyle, and then you watch someone take a cautious playstyle and win. Instead of reevaluating the merits of different playstyles, you just presume the opponents they played against must have been bad.
Problem 3: Your use of bad is presuming that what currently exists is the baseline (i.e. tunneling as is). Instead you actually have a trump card that no one else has access to and you might potentially lose it, even though many people show you can still win without that card.

Anything but talk about how you want killers to spread hooks and keep the game a 4v1 as long as possible to please the survivors

FFS, can we stop beating around the bush and pretending like this is a viable strategy to beat teams that are good in chase and crank gens? We should not be writing paragraphs here, I'm assuming we all play the game and have watched known streamers such as Otz be forced to tunnel or camp at least once to win a game.

You want killer to spread hooks and play "normal". That strategy does not work against good teams while playing 90% of killers. You want only strategy that gives the killer leverage against those teams to be nerfed. There is your problem. No need for mental mindgames where Firellius asks me questions like "should the best player in the world win every game" or suggest that skill alone can get you out of any situation in this game. You and Firellius just over-complicate this each time because it's very hard to dispute simple logic without adding unnecessary fluff to make yourself sound right.

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou July 1, 2025

@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951164#Comment_3951164
I get what you mean.
The anti tunnelling mentality worries me a bit, not because I think it's fun gameplay to be taken from 1st hook to 3rd at 4 gens but because it's not a completely black and white issue.
You know those times where you just hooked a guy and let's say you kick a gen right next to them and just as you're done someone's ran up and unhooked them. No patience just "lol i'm unhooking now bozo" like the optimal play is to punish that misplay. But people would call that tunnelling despite the fact it's the other SURVIVOR's fault for not giving the killer a chance to go elsewhere and commit to someone else
(^ I've been the survivor on the hook in this scenario so many times btw and I can't say I blame Killers for punishing their opponents for bad play)

Well BHVR has only worsened the ability of survivors to get monkey saves in your face. And when that happens you're expected to completely ignore the person who just got unhooked because if you don't then you're… ???

It all centers around the idea that unhooks should be easy to get, and even more so that anyone who is unhooked should be granted complete and utter protection against literally anything the killer can do to hurt them. Almost like getting unhooked is an immediate "time out" button for that survivor, for some reason. You can be a very good survivor, but the second you're hooked that's when the killer is supposed to start treating you like you're a baby survivor who installed the game 2 minutes ago.

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou June 26, 2025

@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951159#Comment_3951159
Depends what you mean by 'Splitting hooks'.
If I focus my attention on two different survivors and make sure to go out of my way to not chase survivors who haven't been hooked previously then I don't see how that's comparable to say
Hooking all 4 survivors once each before anyone gets to second stage.

It depends on how the people I'm arguing with want you to play, and considering that one of them has advocated for basekit decisive I'm going to bet that it's not the first strategy you mentioned

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou June 26, 2025

@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950515#Comment_3950515
Well, what is anyone supposed to do?
This is the premise that -you- set. It's already been proven that for a competent killer, you don't need to tunnel/camp/slug to win the vast majority of your matches. We're talking 90%+, probably even 99%+.
You taking an issue with the possibility of losing that last 1% of matches is so far outside the realm of balance, but you're hung up on it and you shift the premise to be all about answering questions about that last 1%. Never mind that for survivors, matches can be made -actually- unwinnable, that all is fine and should be maintained with great urgency, because killer always takes priority for you.
100% winrate for killers should be fully achievable, and survivors can be left in the dirt.
I'm not going to engage with that premise because I don't agree with it in the slightest.

Are you actually saying that the chances of encountering a team that is good on gens and good in chase is 1%?

And yeah, whenever the killer doesn't play wholesome pig boop chungus 12-hook, that's considered the survivors being "left in the dirt" for this community (along with the idea that the killer is an evil tunneler) so I'm glad you reinforced those ideas.

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou June 26, 2025

@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950515#Comment_3950515
There's no way to address it because you've established a conclusion and are working backwards from it.
You basically have a non-falsifiable statement - anyone who posts video of them winning a match as killer where they didn't tunnel shows the survivors where bad. Anyone who posts a video of them as killer not tunneling, but the survivors win, show that the survivors were good.
People have taken the challenge and posted video, but it always gets met with the same response of 'those are just bad survivors'.
To actually analyze the comparative effectiveness of strategies you'd need to start by defining what you do or don't consider tunneling and how do we determine what marks a good survivor group.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950531#Comment_3950531
Sure, bad killer players exist. Conceptually they should be matched up with bad survivors, though sometimes they'll be matched out of their level, just like happens with survivors. The point remains the same, if they have an overpowered tactic, especially when considering the ease of implementation, it should be nerfed (which doesn't even get into issues like game enjoyment which are also possible discussions).

You can call it "working backwards" but can you explain how my statement is actually false?

If you're playing a card game and you've intentionally decided to only use bad cards (while your opponent can use whatever they want) and STILL win, I am going to assume your opponent is pretty bad. The fact that neither you or anyone else has been trying to argue that those cards are actually good is proof enough for me that you guys know that splitting hooks is a bad strategy, but you still want killers to do it.

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou June 26, 2025

@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950341#Comment_3950341
I refer you to Crogers' law.

It's such a funny coincidence that whenever I point out that the strategy you want killers to employ every game doesn't work against good teams, you either don't address it or bring up something else.

Or, you interpret "good teams" as "comp teams" and go "those only make up .000000001% of the matches you play so who cares"

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou June 25, 2025

@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950358#Comment_3950358
It's a statement I made a while back that @Firellius has been kind enough to credit me for:
'Good survivors are unbeatable, ergo, if the killer won, the survivors must not have been good'
Original usage.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3934304#Comment_3934304
Thankfully the word 'ergo' is not used a lot so I could use search to find it.

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou June 25, 2025

@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949701#Comment_3949701
Survivors will literally never get over when killers got 2.5% on kicks and a quarter of a second off of their pallet breaks. By the way, that was the same update that gave survivors basekit BT, which is arguably a lot more impactful than .2 seconds off of a gen kick.
It isn't, except if the killer is constantly running afoul of it.
That's part of the substantial distinction between what killers got out of 6.1 and what survivors got out of it. The killer buffs are, with the one exception being the bloodlust one, universal. EVERY killer, no matter how they play, will kick a gen at some point. They will hit survivors. They will break pallets. They will make survivors sprint upon getting hit. A lot of these will be done plenty of times per match, too.
But the only killers that will notice the basekit BT are the ones who are at the hook at the moment of unhooking.
This is a list of compounding, universal killer buffs that affect every match and specifically more impactfully affect those that are not tunnelling/camping/slugging, versus survivors being -slightly- harder to tunnel and considerably harder to camp.
If you just follow the normal gameplay loop of 'Chase → down → hook → chase', then survivors got nothing out of this, while you got six buffs.

"if you just play in the least optimal way possible, a way where any team who is remotely good in chase and efficient on gens will cause you to lose, you got six small buffs"

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou June 24, 2025

@Nazzzak said:
Pretty much. I dont tunnel at all, ever. I lose some games, I win more games, and sometimes I draw. The game is designed to give you harder opponents the more you win, and as your skill naturally develops you'll be able to overcome them and slowly face even better players. Tunnelling hinders development, and since it prevents players from developing better macro gameplay, they will feel like they have to tunnel. And after years of playing this game, I can assure you, you won't be able to convince them otherwise that this is a hell of their own making. I've been saying for years on this very forum that when i play survivor, I see a tunnelling killer in maybe 1 out of every 12 games. They're a minority imo, and i suspect it's purely an ego thing - they have to win 100% of their games. Majority of killers manage just fine without resorting to it.

do you think there are ever games where the killer has to tunnel/camp in order to win

in "Tunneling is the only way to consistently win" Comment by StalkingYou June 24, 2025

@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949695#Comment_3949695
Survivors will literally never get over when killers got 2.5% on kicks and a quarter of a second off of their pallet breaks. By the way, that was the same update that gave survivors basekit BT, which is arguably a lot more impactful than .2 seconds off of a gen kick.
These are the patch notes for 6.1, for those wondering about these "amazing buffs that killers got."
Generators take 90 seconds for a single survivor to repair (was 80 seconds)
Killers kicking a generator now immediately cause a 2.5% loss of progress in addition to starting regression
Bloodlust trigger times have been reduced to 15 seconds for Tier 1, 25 seconds for Tier 2, and 35 seconds for Tier 3 (was 15 seconds, 30 seconds, and 45 seconds)
The following Killer actions have been sped up by 10%:
Time to kick a pallet or wall has been reduced to 2.34 seconds (was 2.6 seconds)
Time to kick a generator has been reduced to 1.8 seconds (was 2 seconds)
Cooldown time after a successful hit has been reduced to 2.7 seconds (was 3 seconds)
Duration of the Survivor speed boost when hit has been reduced to 1.8 seconds (was 2 seconds)
Survivors now have a modified version of Borrowed Time as a baseline ability, no perk required
Unhooked Survivors now get a 7% movement speed bonus and Endurance for 5 seconds
The speed bonus and Endurance effect are removed if the Survivor performs a Conspicuous Action
New Term - Conspicuous Actions
Includes: Repairing a Generator, healing yourself or others, cleansing or blessing a Totem, sabotaging a hook, unhooking a survivor, and opening an exit gate.
Added a new section and description to the Game Manual.
Endurance status effect is now cancelled by Conspicuous Actions

what are you talking about, that change let me 12 hook against every 4 man ive ever gone against… perhaps it is your own skill you should be working on