Sluzzy
Sluzzy
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How does survivors enjoy the game? How is it possible to re-queue knowing your fate is determined by the power of the other side?
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My fun meter drops to zero as well when I see him.
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To allow the entity to punish killers for not following orders.
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@SMitchell8 said:
Watch all the horror films over the next few weeks. You won't see people trolling killers and tbagging them. Pretty sure nobody does a decisive strike against Jason.
Decisive strike was used against Myers, when she was first caught so it was a lot stronger in the movies. To be honest, Laurie is an embarrassment in DBD, was far stronger in the movies.
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@douggie123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1714312#Comment_1714312
Mate the games broken. We have lost half of the original killer Playerbase with ruin nerfs another many thousand of the Playerbase left very recently.
Do they want the devs to kill the survivors for them? Ruin is way stronger than it was. Undying paired with it is like switching on god mode.
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No. You are not supposed to be in "control" of matches, because that means there's no opportunity for the other side to win.
If you are so in disbelief that killers are overpowered, watch any killer streamer and you'll see the carnage. There's not a single other game you can switch to on Twitch and find such a win rate, absolutely none. This is a result of 4 years of continuous nerfing to one side and buffing to the other side.
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I can attest fully that killers are not just "still overpowered" but extremely overpowered. Stats is also evidence. It's up to the devs to improve the quality of gaming experience for the inferior side.
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There's no counterplay to all-seeing map-wide presence that debilitates you. Just surrender your soul. If you look up the definition of Pay to Win, his picture is there for an example.
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Playing either side, I haven't seen a 0K in at least 3-6 months maybe a lot longer, I honestly don't remember so I have no reaction either way. It should be a lot more common to be able to 0K.
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@ZaKzan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1711244#Comment_1711244
You're failing to understand the issue. Bloodlust is much more valuable at lower skill levels than higher skill levels. Higher skilled killers know that if they are bloodusting against a survivor, they are losing, due to efficiency. Lower skilled killers do not need to concern themselves with efficiency, so bloodlust is much more valuable. The problem with this is that since the game is so poorly designed, bloodlust was needed to combat poor map design.
If 3 survivors are experts and one is not, they may die if the killer is good, but they won't die if the killer is not. The average survivor will die, then the 3 others will likely escape, which is what is expected.
Your argument about team cohesion is fallacious. You are assuming that the killer is also not trying, but this is false. Ideally, the survivors each should account for about 25% of the killer's power. Only by working together does the survivor team have a chance against the killer, as a 4v1 this is fair, do you not agree? Standing alone against the killer, the killer should be 4 times more powerful than an individual survivor.
If 4 good survivors fight 1 good killer, ideally each side should have about a 50% winrate. This means, as the devs have stated, 2 kills. This is not the case, the case is that a team of good survivors will average 0-1 kills against a similarly skilled killer.
This game is not CoD, and comparing it to CoD is just a waste of time. Since it is a PvP game, it is, by definition, a competitive game. There is a hunger for fairness in PvP games, and this game is not a fair game.
Ideally, if you are not a competitive player, you will be placed in ranks with similar players. This is also not the case with DBD, red ranks should ideally be reserved for the strongest players in the game, but this is not the case.
It is a colossal failure by the devs to not properly rank and gauge players' skill. This is the core issue of the game. The devs do not play the game at a competitive level and they do not listen to players that do, so we have what we have today.
Was bloodlust actually added because of map design or to give a helping hand to new killers? Given by your assertion and from my own experience, rank 1 killers never seem to need or use bloodlust so this means maps are fine. Now, this brings me to my point previously, new and for the most part average casual survivors don't have much to lean on. They don't have anything to give a little rush of adrenaline during a chase to extend it (the opposite of bloodlust). Most of the so-called god loops have been removed so if you are not an expert looper then you are going down fast and depending on the killer you might be going down regardless.
The tournament example doesn't match up to how a typical match plays, where camping was not allowed, certain perks not allowed, etc. You get my point, tournaments are fun but it shouldn't be balanced around that because nobody will ever live because 99% of the time 4 is not on comms with a mission to genrush and leave.
I think the devs made a change around 2017 that drastically caused this discussion - killers don't seem to rank up in red ranks unless they play an amazing game and get 3-4 kills. Is it even possible to rank up with 2 kills, which IS and SHOULD BE the balance target? This might be why killers are so stressed, feeling the need to 4K when in reality it should be a rarity. Unfortunately, it is a common ending.
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@ZaKzan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1710141#Comment_1710141
The average survivor, and for that matter killer, player is barely cognizant. The issue you bring up is exactly why this game is so survivor sided, and it shows where the devs have chosen to base their balance decisions.
The average killer is better than the average survivor, because the survivor needs to take advantage of their environment to elude the killer. If the survivor cannot take advantage of the environment, they just die.
The game is then tailored to this playstyle, which means at higher skill levels, survivors are completely broken, and there is actual evidence of this, especially with hexy's tournament where the best players played against each other, and the strongest killer players in the game playing the strongest killers could only hope, on average, one kill that they had to tunnel and sweat very hard for.
I really don't know why people think this method of balancing is in any way healthy for a PvP game, and I don't know why you bring up those stats like they mean anything to the balance of the game. I understand that you're afraid of survivors becoming too weak, but the error in your thought is that the things that need changed at high levels survivors at low levels aren't doing, they aren't minmaxing pathing, they aren't getting every second they can out of a loop and then holding shift W when they get hit, gaining as much distance as possible from the killer, they aren't exploiting god windows to their fullest, they aren't running the strongest perks in the game. Low skill survivors are being chased and run down because they inefficiently navigate loops and windows, even if the efficiency of loops and windows were changed, this would still not affect low skill survivors because they aren't even looping in the first place.
Please stop using anything the devs post as a source for your arguments, as they are very very unhealthy for the game, and the devs do not play this game at a level that is required to fully understand it and balance it and they don't take advice from the players that do.
"The average killer is better than the average survivor"
Assuming this is true, then that is very bad. I actually believe this is true. Killers are able to down survivors too quickly if they are not an expert looper and because of the perks killers can use, it can paralyze the others to not get the objective done. A perk like infectious freight also has a domino effect.
I don't think you should treat DBD like COD or some other tactical game where both sides are equal. It is asymmetrical and I don't think you should balance where the 4 plays totally perfect, because that leaves no room for everyone else. What if 3 survivors are like experts but one is average? As I understand, the four survivors have no knowledge of each other and they are not necessarily supposed to work as a team but they can as needed. If you balance so all four plays perfectly with no mistakes, then that automatically makes killer so powerful that nobody will ever win unless they are in a SWF purposely genrushing and ignoring everything else. Think of the casuals that only play occasionally or a few games a week, I don't think anybody would play a game if they know their individual experience doesn't matter because only the other side matters.
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On average, Freddy kills a jaw dropping 3 out of 4 survivors every match at red ranks. I don't think that is survivor sided.
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Practice and it won't bother him. Killer at this point in the game history has never been easier. He needs to accept he can't win every game, especially being new.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1705222#Comment_1705222
Lol, ok, and what about literally every other killer in that list. They all average more than 3 kills per match in the Red Rank chart. You're telling me that literally every killer is getting 3+ kills most of the time against full red rank groups?
Yes, and that's with hatch.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1705195#Comment_1705195
I get that you think killers are overperforming, but do you honestly think Clown and Legion and Plague and Demogorgon are -averaging- 3 kills per match against red rank survivors?
Yes I do, Clown is amazing at slowing survivors. Shouldn't they struggle some if it is a top group?
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I'm pretty sure that was all players in red ranks. Killers are overperforming. The only thing keeping Freddy at 75% is the hatch.
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Slowgen perks, the fact he teleports to the survivor objective at the drop of a hat, survivors passively sleep in like almost no time at all, makes him so overpowered. 3 kills every match at rank 1. If the hatch didn't exist he would be a 4K killer every match. Waaaaay too overpowered.
He should be nerfed before they buff another killer, which btw is well above 2k per game.
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If there is any incompetency it is not buffing survivors so they have a reasonable chance of escaping.
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Freddy kills 3 out of 4 every match at prestigious rank 1. Wow!
Where is his nerf hammer?
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You are overacting. Myers was like rank 5 in killrates at rank 1 with around 70% killrate. He's a super super strong killer, but happens to have fair counterplay. I hope they don't touch him tbh. Survivors need buffed before he needs nerfed.
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Survivors die 88% of the time.
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The last DLC was not fun at all. Survivor perks suck, Killer perks with power unfun to verse. I huge bleedout doesn't surprise me.
Having said that, DBD is like a war tank, its going to be ok...
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It's almost like the way it should have been from the beginning.
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It all boils down to one simple statement. Killers just want a super ez game. Where a 4K is absolute.
There you go, that's why they would dodge SWF.
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So for challenges only, it is still showing a major imbalance. 4 survivors finishing every match and 1 killer. The escapes shouldn't be so low because that's 4 times the amount for survivors compared to killer.
I think escape rates are extremely low.
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I approve of this. Tinkerer needed it far worse, but ok. A killer shouldn't be privy of what is going on at the opposite side of the map.
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Balance landing was already ruined so killers didn't have to try too hard on the map and most windows are now sealed. I don't think anything else needs done to it.
Dead zones are not fair and balanced.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1687930#Comment_1687930
What do you mean "getting worse at an alarming rate". Based on what?
Yes, the game should be about 50:50 -- at the highest level of play. Which, these stats are not, and they certainly should not be 50:50 at rank 20. Rank 20 will be over the place, because newbies are newbies and do not know what they are doing.
These statistics are not from competitive play.
Let's use your example: That rank 20's are spoiling the stats:
Now we could make up every excuse in the book say that it's because killers are somehow "too hard" for newbie survivors and so because newbies are newbies and don't know how to play, that this is somehow killers being too "overpowered".
OR, maybe it's just that this game's tutorial simply sucks and does very little to teach survivors the actual proper knowledge they need to play the game and survivor, while a killer can go in with very little knowledge, and easily 4k against a group of survivors that don't know what they're doing, since an environment where survivors are constantly making mistakes and not pushing the objective is where killers are strongest in.
YOUR suggestion is, instead of actually providing the proper tools and mechanics to teach people how to play and let them practice -- is just to nuke the power dynamic so newbies can win 50:50 despite not knowing how to play -- which would completely destroy the integrity of the game beyond any balance above people who have more than puberty-hours worth of play time and have even a remote semblance of idea what they should be doing.
Stop trying to push this political narrative demanding for survivor buffs. Nobody's going to fall for it, and anyone who actually has reached the highest levels of skill play -- which you apparently haven't, and also has actually played kill for a decent amount of time worth their salt -- which you also apparently have not, knows how rough killers can have it when they're up against an actual good team. Not even a great team -- just a good one.
That is not to say killers should not get nerfs in some areas, or that survivors should not be buffed in areas -- especially when it comes bringing solo queue to be closer on par to SWF level, but your ridiculous mantra of taking the most basic statistics as this gospel that killers are overpowered based on nothing more than a couple of numbers with no context comes out as far reaching and depressingly desperate and only proves to me that you have no idea what you are actually talking about.
I'm saying if the game is balanced where both sides have equal and fair chances then the sacrifices will equal the escapes. How is that not reasonable? The last time stats were released for red ranks (competitive rank btw), Freddy had near 80% killrate. Billy and Spirit was over 70%. Since then, maps were significantly reworked to benefit killers even more, they nerfed gen progression so the skilled skillchecks can't get the additional progression, and I believe it is when toolboxes were nerfed along with medkit addons. Killrates are definitely higher now. Undying and Tinkerer is also here now, two perks that stop the objective and it hurts average and new players even more. I have a good gut feeling the killrates at rank 1 is well over 3 kills per game so that means hatch is their only hope to getting out. This is where all five players have played a lot.
I have played plenty of killer, I've only been playing solo a lot more the past few months and it is mindblowing to me to see what I see and how quiet survivors are about the issue. The issue is most survivors are the ones that are not vocal. They are afraid to speak out against the grain because they think they just suck. No. Killers are simply so overpowered that it takes a well coordinated and highly experienced team to beat them.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1687542#Comment_1687542
I don't care if you "don't remember". It happened, and we even have people on the forums who will still complain about disconnecting not because of the killer, but because of other survivors.
88% kill rates doesn't scream "unbalanced" because again, these are all time statistics. Statistics that were gathered over 4 years which does not represent the current state of the game now, and statistics which have absolutely no context behind them.
You are basing the entire notion of a game's balanced based on a number and a political narrative and nothing more.
Quit being biased.
I'm not saying it didn't use to happen but it is getting worse at an alarming rate. Ideally, the killrates should be about 50:50. 2 escaping and 2 dying. It is about 3.50 dying every round and most of those are hatch. The chance of opening the gate is as close to zero as it gets in any given match.
You could say that it is because rank 20 is spoiling the stats and they don't know how to do their objective. That simply means it is too ez for killer to do their objective and too hard for survivor to do their objective and avoid the killer. Anyway you look at it, it means killer is definitely way overpowered.
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@ToxicMyers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1687706#Comment_1687706
yeah, because you can hold m1 and occasionally press space and win the game, but im guessing thats not an issue for you.
If it was that ez, the killrates wouldn't be so high.
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@ToxicMyers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1687654#Comment_1687654
You do realize most content creators have thousands of hours, meaning its their skill that wins the game, right?
A survivor doesn't have that luxury of winning with their skill.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1687604#Comment_1687604
though these stats provided vastly differ from any of my gameplay experience, as survivor and killer, aswell as from any content creators experience ive been witnessing.
0.16 gens repaired on average (given OPs numbers are correct) is exceptionally low and, at least in my (high rank) games, extremely unlikely to ever happen. that would mean that the killers kill all 4 survivors before a single gen is repaired in majority of their games, which cant be right, at least not in high ranks (i know down in the low ranks killers can dominate survivors relatively easily, but even for that 0.16 gens on average seems very low)
even when i, as the killer, absolutely dominate the survivors, they get an average of 2 to 3 gens done. heck, by the time you get your first hook they usually already got a gen done / have multiple progressed to the point where you can only defend one and need to let the others go.
so 0.16 seems very very unrealistic to me and needs to be heavily influenced by lowrank numbers or simply false.
that would imply that eigther the numbers dont say anything about high level play (and should therefore not influence balancing decisions all that much), or that the number 0.16 is wrong and eigther OP or the Devs made a mistake.
your conclusion that killers were way too oppressive is something that is only taken out of these stats, yet does not at all resemble the actual gameplay experience, which is why stats like those can be very dangerous, as they usually get people to draw conclusions from them that might differ greatly from how the game actually is - in low ranks you might be right, that killers are a powerrole that has quite an easy time, but in high ranks that conclusion is the opposite of whats actually going on.
your comment implies that said oppressive role (killers) needs to be nerfed heavily to create a balanced game. it makes sense that you'd think that, but such a decision would probaply end up breaking high rank gameplay.
and high rank gameplay should imo be taken as the balancing standart, as everyone is going to end up there at some point - and i wouldnt like one side being basically invincible / unbeatable after reaching a certain skill level.
In my experience playing solo at red ranks, the killer has a stomping victory 9 out of 10 games. I can switch to killer and it is the opposite. It is not fair to balance for a coordinated SWF team that plays well together because it leaves everyone else out and that's what we have now. I can watch 'content creators' and I see them create a bloodbath every match and when they lose that one game of the entire day they scream "THEY MUST BE SWF!" You shouldn't have to be in a well coordinated team to have a slight chance at beating the killer.
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It is always easy to ignore stats and claim they are bad if they don't match your beliefs or your role. But the truth of the matter is, stats are most likely accurate and it shows a very bad unbalanced game where one side completely overshadows the other.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686818#Comment_1686818
Uh, no.
There was literally a thread a couple days ago of someone boasting that they suicide on hook if any of their survivor teammates didn't save them by second stage because they believed they were entitled to being hooked 3 times.
Literally had nothing to do with the killer.
People suicide because they are entitled to believe the game should always go their way and will screw over everyone else's match while doing so (or because the game is already over). That's not a balance issue -- It's a moral issue.
Survivors would suicide on hook back since the very beginning of the game when survivors could literally self care themselves so fast with We'll Make It's 300%(!!) healing speed bonus which stacked with self care that they could heal themselves faster than the killer could physically smack them inbetween wipe animations -- while being able to instantly fast vault with no entity blockers.
I hardly remember that happening a few years ago. It is getting worse every year and it is definitely gotten worse lately with all the slowgen builds and ability for killers to slug easier now because of aura perks. 88% killrates scream "unbalanced" game.
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@AvisDeene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686783#Comment_1686783
This doesn't tell you anything at all. For all we know 49 million of those kills could be Survivors killing themselves on first hook.
It just means the survivor feels they can't escape due to oppressive killer, etc. A suicide also means player is not even having fun which is even worse.
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Now that is an eye opener for the devs to re-buff survivors and maps and nerf killer slowdown and aura perks. Those killrates are totally unacceptable!!
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With killrates I know as high as they are, killers need a lot of nerfs instead of buffs.
Balancing around a top SWF will bury the game. At this point, I have no idea how and why casual survivors even play. They don't even realize their disadvantages. Ignorance is sometimes bliss.
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Just imagine for a minute thinking killer is still stressful after being handed a fast mobile killer with virtually no cooldown and the most broken perk build AND a wall hack add-on for sweet icing on top. The devs can nerf survivors so they can't run and killers will still complain and threaten to quit.
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He needs some nerfs first.
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Looks like nothing survivors can bring will stop a Blight with that slowdown build. Way too overpowered.
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You forgot to check on the gen in the shack. You get a notification it is almost done. You are rewarded with undetectable status so you can go sneaky and stop the objective from being completed. Killer got a second chance for being bad at the game and the survivor doing a good brave job trying to get the objective done is now unable to do so.
Killers have a lot of second chances.
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Myers is fun, fair and balanced.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1680445#Comment_1680445
Wait, you like playing against Myers?
I always do. Nothing is more spooky and satisfying than to casually look up and see his face watching.
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I always tell daddy myers thank you regardless how it ends. :)
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1680302#Comment_1680302
Are we playing the same game? 🤣
You can tell how busted a map is by how often one side uses an offering for it. That alone is conclusive proof that Ormond is busted as hell since survivors are burning it non-stop these days.
Is it busted or just a little more fair? With the current killer meta, I would say it is a little more fair in this case, not really busted.
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With Undying and Tinkerer, it almost balances out.
Considering how many maps are so killer sided with so much deadzones, survivors do need a map or two to have it easier.
After a Spirit brings in the most ridiculous build and slaughters everyone because of auras all over the screen on the tiny McMillan map, an Ormond map is a breath of fresh air.
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From the looks of it, survivors with perks is no match to an Oni with Infectious Freight, Undying, Ruin, BBQ. You still won, with your own powerful perks helping you.
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As someone else mentioned, the devs are much better off not listening to fog whisperers or anyone that tries to suggest to balance the game for around high ranks. A top SWF should not be required to play the game and the game should not dissolve to genrush team vs. killrush killer every match because that is the direction it is headed. In the current balance, a solo survivor does not stand a chance because they have already listened to their community and buffed killers too much and nerfed survivors too much. So I am highly recommending to the devs to stay steadfast, reverse some of their balance changes they have done, and stay true to their core concept of the game that made it popular to begin with. The devs know their game better than anyone because they created it.
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They'll never make it ez enough for killers.