Slowpeach
Slowpeach
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- Slowpeach
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It should still cause the offering to backfire meaning instead of being sent there there is now a 100% chance you do not go to any of the maps offered.
Map offerings in general should be map bans rather then 'go to this obviously killer/survivor sided map' anyway. The fact that the item that counters them still ultimately means there's a slightly less then 1 in 20 chance you get sent to that map anyway is too high. Also for all we know it could very well be bugged to make the chances not what they should be anyway.
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All of these 'mutations' to use a left 4 dead term should be available in customs if people want to mess about. Occasionally the 'mutation' should be available to play in the main game from a bunch available that get added to.
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No. Actually I would change it.
Unpopular opinion? I'd actually change Windows to be a base perk at yellow level with Windows increasing the range of the vision so that purple is the same as it is now. Just so people aren't paying a perk tax. I'd also make it so that it no longer sees breakable doors which have no meaning whatsoever to survivors. I play 80% killer so don't go accusing me of being a survivor main :D.
Playing solo no matter how good you are also means you have no idea what has been dropped and what hasn't unless you run windows. Alternatively, the reverse of windows could work as base kit. You know what pallets have been dropped already.
This game has terrible new player onboarding and kill rates are much higher at lower levels then at high. Such a change would help with this immensely. Not to mention it'd stop being a perk tax when playing solo.
At the end of the day pallets should be a stall and using them wisely is a skill players learn as they get better. Simply having windows and running and dropping every pallet you see without playing each tile properly still loses the game.
Realistically if Windows is too big of a problem, it's probably because the map is poorly designed rather then the perk being too strong. Windows simply gives information that should honestly be public knowledge, using that information wisely is the skill. Windows doesn't do that for you.
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Perk should be reworked entirely. I have a special place of hate for Boil Over and I usually let one person out no matter what. Boil Over users do not get this privilege. Unless they are Kate's who are doing adepts (I see Dance with me and no other obvious perks, though running like they have Windows is also a possible sign but Windows is extremely common so hard to know).
As solo 90% of the time it's near useless. 10% of the time it gets value through dumb luck of how the wiggles work/hook placements. As a SWF if the whole team plays around it, it is extremely broken and deliberately used to make other players miserable. Perk absolutely needs to be reworked. It's from a time where the game design was more of Almo's nonsense of 'Insidious Bubba is pretty cool actually' where the goal seemed to be to make the other side miserable through sadistic torture. Everything like this needs to be thrown out.
The fact alone there are places on certain maps where you can go down and no matter what the spawn is and never be hooked is absolutely ridiculous. Even solo you can pull this off. Example is the center building on Disturbed Ward. Going down almost anywhere in there on the top floor with boil over makes reaching a hook impossible. It's not the only spot but it's one of the most common.
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Favours survivors but only if they are competent enough to take advantage of its layout and size. Otherwise it favours killers.
I think considering how many god awful maps there are the fact this one is both visually appealing and relatively fair makes it popular.
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A lot of the feedback on all the threads has been very solid and good. I hope this actually goes somewhere and isn't seen to be doing/false appeasement because that would be a shame (yet completely unsurprising).
Like this map by far is overwhelmingly one of the most that needs to be changed majorly and has been since I started playing almost 2 years ago so probably a lot longer. If this doesn't happen meaningfully at the very least or somehow is even made more survivor sided (which again would be completely unsurprising) well the occasional bit of faith that I have in this game that happens when a step in the right direction is taken (like these threads) will be extinguished (again).
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3638593#Comment_3638593
Pop got a nerf, as people can't tap a gen meaning less gens are available to be popped when you have that timer ticking down to get a kick in before it expires.
However, I will say, a generator being repaired is NOT regressing, so surveillance SHOULD immediately let you know someone is working on it. If they let go before 5%, then it'll hop back to regressing, but surveillance I would assume still glow yellow for 16 seconds. After the 16 seconds, if it's still regressing, it should show in white, again. If that's not working that way, you should put in a bug report.
It doesn't. You can HEAR people repairing on the 'white' generator and then it'll turn yellow after they've passed the threshold. I almost never used this combo it but I gotta wonder whether Surveillance+Ruin is also gutted for the same reason/bug. Honestly, I am feeling a large amount of 'why bother' when it comes to feedback or bug reporting. Don't exactly have a good record for follow up with things I report. Then of course the PTB and the issues here are exactly what people predicted there'd be. Massively overpowered meta perks while niche perks get completely gutted when some really good ideas were in the PTB thread.
I honestly hoped it would work the way that ruin+surveillance used to/does. If a generator gets worked on then the survivor gets chased off, you immediately know when someone else touches it because it turns yellow.
I suspect though that the game considers the generator as 'regressing' and thus not a valid target for surveillance (or kicking) until the threshold is passed then it is being 'repaired'. This bandaid style fix without thinking of the consequences is typical and it's how a lot of their bugs happen.
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Honestly I'm so sad that Surveillance got double nerfed. Not only because of the kick limit but also because it does not tell the killer anymore when the generator is being worked on, it ONLY triggers once it is past the regression point which is a net negative because that's 5 seconds of repair time (or rather an extra 2.5) that survivors get without surveillance triggering.
Even worse this means combined with the bug, a survivor could make surveillance do absolutely nothing. What did this perk do to deserve this? It's an intel perk, not a slowdown.
Really hate these changes and I said as much during the PTB even though it wasn't active. Just pushes killers to use meta perks even more and leaves niche perks like surveillance, brutal strength, trail of torment, dragons' grip and others in the dust.
I could easily record a bot game where I hit the kick limit using my usual build and that's without three genning: Surveillance, mad grit, agi, awakened awareness, no slowdowns outside of surveillance if you count that.
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Yeah this got through meanwhile lets nerf Surveillance guys. Doesn't even work now when people touch a generator, it's only when the 'tap period' is passed. So you are more likely to hit the kick limit, which I hit on two generators at 3 gens remaining, so not three genning, I just do something called using my perk which tells me when someone is on a generator. Thank you so much for nerfing my relatively harmless perk while leaving this utter nonsense in.
As I said then, all these changes do is push weaker perks out and put meta perks in even more so then they were.
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I'm getting a different issue but it 'may' be the same though I made a separate thread. I honestly thought it was a DDos attack or something because that's what it felt like because the timing in all four cases was suspicious. Game would play normally then this sort of thing would happen. In two cases I had to force quit and all 4 I got a matchmaking penalty.
Happy Anniversary indeed...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpF0MnbxY5I -
@camping_site said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3465640#Comment_3465640
Blinding killer doesn't contradict these points. Some challenges are killing teams but many can be organically implemented into gameplay. I would suggest that survivors try not to do whole challenge in a single trial to stay as close as possible to points 1. and 2.
P.S. Endgame is a good time for some challenges.
I was happy with progressing ONCE. Ironically most of my progress was made in large strides of 2-3 and in one case 4 where the killer was running overcharge with a heavy regression build and very happy to kick blast mines. Of course some games killer ran ruin and I had to deal with that totem first rather then play the game optimally if I wanted to progress at all. Whoops killer is guarding it like crazy and losing gens everywhere else... no progress again.
The problem isn't trying to do it all in one go, the problem (at least in this case) is that the killer basically has to allow it for it to work or you have to go out of your way to throw and if they have lightborn, you 100% cannot progress. Which is also why I stopped bringing flashlights and settled on something that would help progress the game (blast mine). As I also said, some killers were actively throwing the game to avoid blinds. It was maddening.
It's neither here or there though. It was a recent personal experience and I did digress as I said. There's far more challenges especially those with 'do this in one trial' that are far more obnoxious.
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Keep in mind several challenges ask survivors to throw the game. Chests and totems fall into this category. There's a lot of them that are dependent upon what the killer does.
For example I had 'blind the killer 10 times'. In theory you could do it in one game. Unlikely but in theory. It took me 15 and only one of those was with a flashlight. The rest were flashbangs and blast mines because they kept equipping lightborn to deny me progress or in one killers case, they literally did not break a god pallet for 60 seconds so I could not blind them while they did so. That was the only flashlight blind I did get.
I digress but if a survivor is doing something that is so utterly useless that you have no idea what they are thinking, it could be a very difficult challenge. If I had my way I'd seriously overhaul these and remove a lot of the ones that are dependent upon the killer doing something. Most of the killer ones in theory can be done if all survivors are afk only things like break generators can't. Many survivor ones are dependent on either another survivor or the killer doing a certain something.
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@Saiph said:
The problem with camping/tunneling is that they ruin the game for casual players but are actually needed and balanced at top level. So if BHVR gets rid of it, they will have to seriously rebalance the game. I hate tunneling/camping as game mechanics, but I acknowledge that it is very hard to win for killer against a good SWF without tunneling.
I don't think BHVR even has the ability to do such a rebalance based on what we've seen in the past years (esp. DS duration nerf, totally backwards...). I still wish they tried more. The casual playerbase is what's the most important for a game ultimately. If there are no casual players left then the game becomes a sweatfest and both sides won't like that. This is what we've been seeing in the past 2 years where both sides think the game is becoming more and more difficult, without realizing that it's not due to balance changes, but rather that the playerbase is half of what it used to be so on average they are playing against much better players than before.
This.
Also their proposed fix won't stop camping, they'll just find the sweet spot and camp there instead. You can rescue them sure, but they'll just end up on the ground again most likely. Also certain addons and perks that cause exposed/one hit downs will still be a thing. For example Huntress could throw her one hit down hatchet while being outside the camping circle at the unhooker.
I honestly don't like posting on forums anymore because of the us vs. them stuff and inability to see things objectively then on top of that BHVR seem completely oblivious to their own game (Trapper is fine lolol no) but this really sums it up. The game is balanced around camping and tunnelling these days. Take them away and survivors win every game at higher levels.
You could very easily kill camping and tunnelling by using pyramid mechanics on hooks and making it so there's no unhook notification, interface doesn't immediately and the killer cannot see the survivor and certain unhook related perks (make your choice/devour/floods of rage) are reworked, but that would basically make the game impossible for killer. I still think this is a good idea but you'd have to overall the whole game balance to do it and that will never happen.
It is a dream that will never get fulfilled.
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@philward1953 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364226#Comment_3364226
"She tunneled and camped but I don't see this as that bad"
🤨
Guy would fit right in at BHVR. One guy is quoted as saying on video 'Insidious bubba is pretty neat actually'.
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@Utilitarian_Belt said:
Idon'twanttoreadlikethis
Was kind of the point of the politician/car salesman style ad. They tell you a lot of crap between the lines and are hoping you don't read or pay attention.
In all seriousness it's just complete... resignation of the situation we find ourselves in. How can they not have meaningfully at least attempted to fix camping and tunnelling considering the damage it does every day and if anything continue to make game design choices which make it worse like nerfing Make your choice which is arguably one of the healthiest perks in the game.
Even the fact people are unsure whether they consciously nerfed those perks or they are honestly so incompetent that they only cared about artistic 'consistency' gameplay be damned.
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@Bwsted said:
It's a general bug. Select another challenge and play match, it doesn't matter if you complete it. Then you can go back to this one and it should be fixed.
That didn't happen. I think I got the rewards for it because I got a few rift things and bloodpoints when I next loaded the game but it's still not completed.
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In my case not only did it not complete, it prevented me accessing the archives unless I went in through the main menu. The tab that lets you access it was no longer present. Can give screens if need be.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318891#Comment_3318891
I already run Make Your Choice so as to not tunnel, and this change would prevent me from capitalising on Make Your Choice, and thereby prevent my own anti-tunnel mechanism...
Not least, sometimes camping or tunnelling is simply the correct play, particularly at or near endgame where it's not something that ruins the game for survivors. As such, camping and tunnelling should always be a choice the killer can make. That choice just has to be sufficiently costly, and not free.
Another idea for counter tunnelling specifically, could be a chase perk that triggers after you've been unhooked. Something like "For 60s after being unhooked, your next Exhaustion status only lasts for 5 seconds." Which would give freshly tunnelled survivors the opportunity to double up on Exhaustion perk use in that chase and make it cost the killer more time.
Alternatively, you idea could be a survivor perk. This way the survivor is spending a resource to use this counter. Something like "You are unable to unhook yourself, attempting to do so will instead move you to another random hook and hide the aura of that hook from the killer for 30 seconds."
I mention perks that work on unhooking needing to be reevaluated and I also mentioned that because there are one or two issues with this that could be dealt with in time it won’t happen. For make your choice I’d give a delay of 10 seconds and then the survivor screams and you get aura reading on them for 3/4/5 seconds or something as well as the 60 seconds expose time. And yes, I’d want to entirely change what scourge hook floods of rage does but people hate long detailed posts. Make your choice should be changed from in some situations being better at tier 1 anyway. Unless they want to make it so you can select lower tier versions of a perk.
My hope is low for anything like this to actually happen. Still let’s try to suggest things that will actually fix this and not do more bandaid survivor perks that survivors almost never use because the situation where they are relevant doesn’t come up in most games which makes the perk feel useless so they don’t run them. Hi reassurance.
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Teleporting survivors to different hooks on hook even basement hooks and not notifying the killer of where they are OR when they are unhooked would help immensely (including on the interface which would have a delay). In addition to hiding their grunts of pain, blood, scratch marks etc. for a short period after that. I try play nice as killer and I have to sometimes go out of my way to avoid finding a weakened survivor fresh off hook I get so many gimmes. Grunts of pain, a massive unhook sound, scratch marks if I return to that location. Please.
Obviously this can’t be done in a vacuum because certain killer perks would have to be changed as to not notify them of the unhook for a delayed period not to mention that it would significantly buff survivors which means this will never happen because it doesn’t magically fix everything in one go and leaves a few issues even if this will significantly help a long standing issue and could be good in the long run.
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@Pepsidot said:
Best idea I've heard is to spawn the survivor on another hook across the map if the Bubba is too close. Just like how survivors are spawned across the map to another cage if a pyramid head comes too close.
If anyone didn't know this, the "cage" timer is actually paused for a few seconds when the survivor relocates to another cage. Giving survivors more time to unhook them.
If this is implemented, they should make it so a hooked survivor stays put when all 5 gens are done, though.
Unsure how to deal with basement hooks though. And unsure if this could be too beneficial for survivors (or the dreaded SWFs) purposefully baiting the bubba to be near the hook, so another survivor can get an easy across the map unhook.
This. It should be a staple rule for hooks and general and done immediately on hook, even if it’s a basement hook. Obviously can’t be done in a vacuum and killers would need to be buffed too but fun first. This is a major issue that’s never been resolved because people are looking to solve every problem in one go rather then make incremental progress. Game is notoriously imbalanced anyway, crying over having it be temporarily imbalanced is like crying over spilled milk.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318868#Comment_3318868
I don’t know. I’m positive I’m low MMR and more often than not I don’t do too bad as killer on that map.
Eh it’s a guess. It does depend on the build and killer you use too. Certain killers have it easier there then others. Playing an m1 killer though against a survivor/s running windows of opportunity is pain. Even if you win, it’s not fun.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318868#Comment_3318868
You don't have access to kill rates on that map at lower MMR though, so you have no idea if it does indeed have those issues.
It’s a logical conclusion though. Or an educated guess. Before Otz said something most people would have said the game is survivor sided. That’s why he made the video after all. Most people honestly aren’t as good at the game as they like to think. Also even if I had the numbers I’d still question them because I wouldn’t know how the game rates player skill. It’s not as simple as kills and escapes, I’ll say that much.
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@Krazzik said:
It's more killer-sided, Otz said.
While I agree with this it only applies at the higher levels of play.
Lower skilled players do not loop effectively which means the game covers up their weaknesses in their skills better because running to a 100% safe pallet and dropping it is a lot easier then looping the killer efficiently or even leading the killer to an area where you have the advantage is a skill many survivors don’t have unless it is an extremely obvious advantage and those maps are notoriously survivor sided.
The map should still be changed. It’s just boring to play on it on both sides because of the immense amount of pallets and lack of gameplay options for both sides.
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Lastly the tome.
I tried to keep the tome style in the sense of the word count but admittedly I couldn't fit everything I wanted to such as how things go based on whether Joey goes survivor or killer at the end which is based on whether Joey stabs the cleaner at the hardware store or not. If he doesn't Frank ends up stabbing Joey after a scuffle and both are taken by the entity but they use a video for some things and that may work. There may be errors, I haven't had anyone edit it. Again, I'm aware all of these may be rendered obsolete in a few months :D.
Perseverance
- Part 1
One of those days had turned into one of those nights. Fired from his retail job at Ormond Electronics, a scapegoat for things far above his pay grade. Now the night of his graduation prom the girl who he had finally worked the courage to ask out had been lying to him the whole time as an elaborate plot for her and their group to bully and laugh at him.
Covered in fruit punch as one last final insult from her actual boyfriend he sat there and reflected. No one came to his aid, it was all Joey’s fault after all. As far as the staff were concerned he was a ‘problem’ child.
“You look like someone who wants to plot revenge” a young female voice draws Joey from his thoughts
Joey looked up and saw a girl around his age in a black hooded coat, hazel eyes, freckles, a firm expression
“… Could be… Never been very good at that. People tend to blame me for things I don’t do”
The girl smiled knowingly “Well maybe you haven’t had the right teacher. I’m Julie”
“Joey…”
Some strategically placed objects behind the wheels of cars, some sauce and syrup on car doors and a more surprises inside their vehicles gave Joey at least something to salvage the night. Perhaps in more ways then one...
- Part 2
“I’ll be there earlier then planned…” Joey held the payphone receiver closer to him so he could hear and be heard over the noise of traffic and construction outside.
“That doesn’t sound good…” Julie detected the disappointment in Joey’s voice
“Got laid off…”
“Really? They seemed so pleased with you”
“Business is folding… Nothing they can do but sell and the new owners are hiring their own staff”
“Damn… Well hey I guess I’ll see you soon then”
“Yup” Joey flatly answered hanging up
Joey couldn’t hide his disappointment. This was a good job, on the road delivering things from one end of town to the other, the hours were weird sometimes at all hours of the night but that was an advantage as far as Joey was concerned. Simple, easy, to the point and he didn’t need to deal with people, neither customers nor staff members gossiping behind his back.
On the plus side Julie’s parties were great, Ormond had to be one of the most boring desolate places to live and by contrast Julie was so full of life, rebelled against the standard in ways that nobody else in his life seemed to. In the short time he had spent with her he had learned more about himself then he had his whole life. More importantly perhaps that it wasn’t him who was the ‘problem’, it was Ormond and the sheep who lived there. All content to live the same way, do the same thing and shun anyone who dared to be different.
- Part 3
Julie’s parties were not large affairs. Only a few close friends. None of the sheep.
“Hey you” Julie greeted Joey with a warm smile “I haven’t you introduced both of you yet. Joey this is Susie, Susie Joey”
A small girl with a timid expression with short black hair wearing a pink cardigan and a short old fashioned flowery print dress. She looked extremely out of place here, though Joey was not one to judge.
Before Joey could say anything Julie continued “We are going to give Susie here a makeover…” Julie’s grin widened
Susie timidly laughed “I… really doubt Mom will approve”
“That’s the entire point… Come on! I will make you a star… or at least… someone else”
“… I’d like that…” Susie smiled in a sinister and cheeky way that made Joey immediately see what Julie saw in her
“I get what you mean… I needed a make over of a different kind”
“You meanwhile need to crush those boys at that game” Julie remarked to the arcade machine in the living room. “They are getting unbearable”
“Time to show my expertise” Joey smiled knowingly
Julie clearly had a gift of seeing potential. Before meeting her he was so tense, so hung up on invisible rules and social structures that the sheep had. He hadn’t broken free completely, he still needed to earn money to support his Mom but perhaps one day things would change forever.
- Part 4
Almost a year had passed since meeting Julie and Joey’s fortune in the job department had not changed. He had been a labourer, worked at the theatre, a box hauler, even had a brief job as a guard at the local bar but the owner was forced to fire him after Joey got into a fight with a his former school bully who then threatened to sue despite Joey following the rules to the letter.
Julie shook her head and sighed as though disappointed in Joey as he told her the story “Funny thing about rules. The sheep decide what the rules are and change them whenever they want. Now a job at the supermarket… bleh…” she stuck her tongue out and pointed to show her intense disgust
Joey wordlessly agreed. The owner was a tyrant.
“Hey guys” Susie entered Julie’s living room “I have a date for the prom. I can’t believe he asked me out, I have the biggest crush” She beamed from ear to ear
Joey’s heart sunk… it sounded too good to be true and it was “… It’s a trick… he’s just setting you up for a fall”
“No!” Susie folded her arms outraged “He confessed his feelings for me, he’d been too shy to say anything and I’d been too shy to ask and well…” she beamed again
“Nobody hopes I’m wrong more then me, but I don’t think so”
“Julie?”
“I’m with Joey on this… something smells”
“Fine then… You don’t believe me, but I’ll prove you both wrong” Susie stormed out of house
After a moment of silence making sure Susie was out of ear shot Joey spoke up
“Don’t worry I’ll look out for her”
- Part 5
Joey finally finished his exhausting eight hour shift at the supermarket, he still had time to make Susie’s prom. He was in the back fixing his tie before putting his suit on. He looked in the mirror and felt like he was Atlas Flint about to infiltrate a masquerade ball. He didn’t have an invite to Susie’s prom of course, but was confident he could sneak in.
“What are you doing?” Mr. Robinson the owner stepped in
“Got a date tonight…”
“You have to stock the shelves before tomorrow”
“I’m in early tomorrow. I’ll get it done before we open”
“No mister. Now”
This was not the first time Mr. Robinson had pulled something like this. Well not tonight. Julie was right, the sheep change the rules to suit them. Joey looked outside at the rain, stole an umbrella and headed outside with no intention of coming back.
He drove up to the function hall and saw Susie in a gold gown running out from the building clearly distraught. Joey quickly parked the car, opened his umbrella and dashed out into the pouring rain to Susie who was in tears.
Susie gasped in surprise when she saw it was Joey “I’m sorry Joey… you were right… of course were right. Why wouldn’t you be?”
“Shh… shh… shh” Joey pulled Susie closer to him under the umbrella and held her with his left arm.
She sobbed into his shoulder and Joey silently comforted her.
- Part 6
Susie looked to Joey apologetically “I didn’t know I got you fired, I’m sorry”
Joey shrugged indifferently “I didn’t get fired. I quit. You were more important”
After hearing about what happened Julie held a party to console Joey over losing another job. Julie then introduces someone. Frank. It’s immediately obvious that Julie is very taken by Frank and it doesn’t take much to figure out why.
They discuss their taste in foods, movies which then goes onto serial killers, Julie’s favourite subject. Frank was not from Ormond and it showed. He had a very similar liveliness to him that Julie had but unlike Julie he had experience to back it up.
Julie often talked a big game and Joey respected her a great deal but when it came to following through most of their antics were at best… amateur. Joey of course was hardly one to criticise because it’s not as though he could do better but it was evident that Frank had a lot to teach all of them.
As the night went on and Frank and Julie were still talking Joey had to leave for a job interview the next morning but it went unnoticed. He didn’t mind. He was pleased that Julie had found someone that was on her level, that it wasn’t her teaching but it was her that was learning.
- Part 7
Something was wrong. Usually messing with the sheep and destroying their social structure brought Susie such joy and a cruel little smile but currently she seemed deep within her thoughts and an unshakeable frown across her face.
“What’s going on?” Joey removed the street sign from the ground
“Nothing…” Susie answered unconvincingly as she put the incorrect street sign in place where the old one had once been
“… It’s still going on isn’t it? That damn cheerleader”
“I really want to slash her throat” Susie seethed sharing her darkest thoughts that she would only ever fantasise “Still… Just leave it…”
Joey wouldn’t. Whether emboldened by Frank or just unable to tolerate it any longer, Joey wanted to get her to back off. Pranks wouldn’t send the right message. No. He wanted to make sure that if she even thought about messing with Susie that she’d remember what Joey had done to her.
- Part 8
A few weeks passed and tonight was the night. Her parents were out of the house on a trip somewhere. His prey was alone. He waited in her bedroom having set up his plan. Predictably as she entered the room she tried to turn the light on, nothing happened. She then moved to her bedside chest and turned on the lamp there.
“Deidre Summers” Joey announced himself sitting in the open window wearing a skull mask, black bandanna and hoodie tossing the removed light bulb up and down.
“Who the hell are you!”
“Your worst nightmare. I don’t think your parents would approve of what you’ve got in the cabinet there”
Deidre opened the closet and found some drugs in a plastic bag. She wasn’t sure what it was but knew it did not look legal.
“Those aren’t mine…”
Joey laughed evilly “You hold a lot of value for the truth for someone who spreads so many lies about others”
She remained silent and Joey continued “Just like you didn’t cheat on your boyfriend last night. Or didn’t cheat on your exams” Joey threw two photographs at her revealing her in a compromising position with another guy at a restaurant. He had set it up to make an innocent fall look like something else. The other was acquiring test answers from a corrupt teacher, an actual truth.
Deidre gasped finally figuring out what was going on “What the hell do you want? Just stay away from me!”
“Oh I will… if you stay away from everyone else. I hear about you being a jerk to anyone and you will learn just how much you stand to lose...”
Without waiting for a reply Joey leaped from the window and made his exit
- Part 9
Susie seemed in better spirits laughing as she and Joey entered their abandoned cabin hideout with a bunch of stop signs with photos included of how the easily the sheep collapse without their structure.
“I got a new job at the hardware store too”
Frank eyed Joey unusually “You won’t hold that for a month”
Julie laughed “I’ll take that bet”
“Done deal”
“I’ll be bold and say he’ll hold it for at least three”
Julie eyed Susie “Very brave indeed”
Joey sighed “Really guys? You are betting on how long before I screw up?”
Frank shook his head and sighed “You care too much about money”
That was easy for Frank to say, he only had to worry about himself. Joey had responsibilities and had to take care of his Mom who only had him to rely on. All his talk about ideals, the corruption of education and all that stuff was all very well but in the end it was just ideals and talk. The world was a conveyor belt because it couldn’t survive being any other way. Still, Joey did wish he could break free of that reality.
Julie changed the subject on hanging the car emblems she and Frank stole and adding Joey and Susie’s stop signs to the collection.
- Part 10
Mr. Richards the owner of the hardware store approached Joey clearly in a rage “You and your friends have been stealing from here. I saw you stealing a chocolate bar just before closing”
Joey knew what was coming next he might as well answer back give at least some satisfaction “Really? Search me then, search my stuff. If I stole it you should be able to find it. So where is it?”
“I don’t know! I never have proof but I know it’s you. Things have been going missing ever since I hired you. Well no more. You’re fired”
“There’s a surprise! I’m a little insulted actually… If I was going to steal something from here, I’d aim much higher then a chocolate bar…” Joey shouted back outraged
Mr. Richards visibly fumed “GET OUT!”
Joey turned on the spot rising a middle finger behind him as he left. He couldn’t believe that it had happened again and so soon. He had tried his best, persevered against all the things he hated to try and survive but in the end it didn’t matter.
Upon sharing the news with the group Frank collected on the bet and then Julie suggested they get payback, raid the place, get supplies and set it on fire and let Ormond know the wrath of the Legion.
Maybe Frank was right after all. Ideals were better then trying to adapt to an environment hostile to him. Maybe it was time he let go and embraced who he really was.
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Perks
These Perks are more designed as flavour. The values and effects, I don't care about, merely the name and the theme of the perk reflecting my take on Joey's survivor personality which I'm aware could all be rendered moot with the rumoured visual novel.
Special Interests (Based on Joey's interest in cosplaying video game/comic book characters).
You've always paid attention to every fine detail in subjects others care little for.
- Whenever you start to fix a generator, bless or cleanse a totem, you always know where that generator or totem is. This works for up to 1/2/3 generators and/or totems at a time. Totems and generators are also highlighted when within 6 meters of you.
“Time to show my expertise” - Joey
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Originally designed as an anti NoED but since it’s nerf (goes to show how long I've been thinking about this) it’s another perk that can be used to track totem or generator locations. Also useful for finding pesky hidden totems if running boons albeit with a much smaller range then small game.
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Scapegoat (Based on Joey's history of being fired)
When things go wrong, people blame you.
- Whenever the killer would receive a noise notification, you also receive it, it is targeted at your location instead and your aura is revealed to the killer for 9/7/5 seconds. This effect has a cooldown of 30 seconds. In addition when you and another survivor are working on a generator and they miss a skill check it will look as though you missed the skill check.
“People tend to blame me for things I don’t do” - Joey
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This is for players who wish to 'engage' with the killer and draw their attention from more vulnerable survivors. More flavour then anything else.
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Defiant Resolve (Based on Survivor Joey refusing to give into peer pressure)
You are willing to take a hit in order to protect someone vulnerable no matter the personal cost.
- When taking a protection hit that doesn’t inflict deep wounds any survivor (including you) within 30 meters makes no grunts of pain, leaves no pools of blood, leaves no scratch marks and gains 5% haste for 10/12/14 seconds.
“Better a sheep then a directionless madman” – Joey’s final words to Frank
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Designed as an anti tunnel perk but also useful for a protection hit play style.
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@Mooks said:
David King because of alcohol abuse, problems accepting himself and having anger issues and random bar fights, take away his friend helping him get in line and everything..
Feng Min also had some serious self harming issues and a competitive spirit, she is also described as a lone wolf and I can see her turning against other survivors..
Yui kinda already has her tome story with another killer version of her or something, right?
and yeah Yun-Jin for obvious reasons.
Ooof yeah. David King probably hits too close to home for people though to be a killer though. Wasn't aware of that about Yui. Feng would be interesting. We know how popular she is, let's give her a killer version with a metric ton of cosmetics too right? Yun-Jin is indeed the most obvious where she has a partnership with Trickster instead of 'ignoring' things.
How would these function as a killer? Feng would likely have some form of 'alternate reality' as a power where she warps perception and creates things that hinder/hurt the survivors though if she was basically a toxic gamer that would REALLY hit too close to home though be a good way of holding a mirror up to some people :D.
@OrangeBear said:
Haddie Kaur due to community mistreatment
Ouch.. I felt that. I actually like her potential, it's just she wasn't done very well. Considering the nature of what she interacts with, she could very easily become a killer.
One I read where someone did a basic sketch of everyone switching sides was Jane using her celebrity status to lure people into to being sacrificed to an entity cult as a sort of cultist where she would gain the alias 'The Red Woman' though her killer name would be either 'The Cultist' or 'The Celebrity'. Given her drive and desperation to succeed it would be pretty easy for her to turn this way.
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There’s several things that are questionable about the data. Like how mmr is calculated to begin with? We all know there’s more to skill then kills and escapes but we believe that’s how skill is rated so ‘high’ mmr might not mean anything whatsoever. After all we know how wildly inconsistent a players skill level can be one game from the next. How many games are played with each killer? Low amounts of games means not enough data.
Someone else pointed out the fact a lot of the higher end killers are ones that punish a lack of coordination. So swf vs solo is a thing too not put into this graph.
Ultimately I’ve learned not to put much stock into numbers that are difficult to validate how they came about. All too often they can give a very misleading picture.
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@Coordi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226578#Comment_3226578
I wish I could go down the list of add-ons (The Hillbilly, anyone?), perks, accessibility, and other changes made with the help of community feedback. I understand your question is forum specific, but we don't get our information from only one place. The Dead by Daylight community does not exist in a forum vacuum. We use every tool available to us, including Twitter, Discord, Facebook, Reddit, and even Twitch to make sure we have a gauge on how something is going over, ideas the community has, and collecting that to make sure it's communicated properly.
It very much is not the latter. You would be surprised the visibility that is achieved via these forums! Not a paper shredder, in the slightest as things like the Suggestions forums are invaluable! 🎃
Sure I wouldn’t argue in general that anything we say is a paper shredder, just that forum. Ironically because you don’t get your info from one place the more people that see it the more a good idea will spread. By putting a good idea into a forum that gets low traffic, it won’t get seen and falls into the void.
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@Coordi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3225809#Comment_3225809
There isn't quite enough time in my day to list every time the team listened to and implemented feedback. Changes have been reverted, accessibility options implemented, and of course the countless adjustments from PTB feedback as well. Not everything suggested can be implemented, of course, as we have balance and other things to consider, but we absolutely do read everything.
Obviously things in that forum (or any forum) can sometimes be contradictory, it's physically impossible to listen to everyone. Still I asked for one example not every example ;). Many things get talked about in many other places that get listened to or adopted. That doesn't count. I'm referring to any one specific idea that came from that forum and got implemented in direct consequence.
In other words, is it a suggestion box? Or is it a a paper shredder marked 'suggestion box'? Cus it feels like the latter.
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Wasn't this fixed just this update? Or is this still a thing and worse somehow?
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If this is intentional, well played. I want to buy Jeff now.
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@Coordi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3225451#Comment_3225451
The feedback received on the forums is always read and reviewed to see what we can address and implement. Obviously the team cannot act on every suggestion, but we do read everything and make sure things are passed onto the appropriate people as necessary.
Serious question not snarky. Can you give one example or more of where something posted in feedback got acted upon?
A lot of people feel that stuff that goes there or gets forced there is a dead zone. It doesn’t have as much traffic and all the rest of it,
I ask because I have an idea I’m putting a fair amount of effort into but I feel putting it into feedback is going to be less impactful then putting it in general.
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I don't play either because Hag is just unpleasant to go up against and Twins while you can play them without being a jerk it's not particularly enjoyable and for me at least. I try to make the survivors have fun too.
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@roundpitt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3223953#Comment_3223953
I consider solo que improvements to be a balancing problem, so that would go under General Balancing.
Hmm that’s pretty vague though. One of the problems lately with their direction is that the balancing is an arms race between swf and killers with solos being left in the dust. General balancing as far as they are concerned may not address that.
It might even the discrepancy in the fact that low skilled killers against low skill survivors have much higher win rates then high skill killers against high skill survivors. Neither here or there though because neither issue is my first choice.
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I think realistically the people on the ground are doing all they can with what they’ve got with regards to cheating. I mean honestly if those free epic store accounts or whatever are the issue there’s nothing they can do now unless they want to make dbd 2 which has its own problems. No matter how good the anti cheat is, if they’ve got a huge amount of free accounts they can just jump to nothing you can do will matter. The arms race will just continue forever,
Camping and tunnelling on the other hand are results of poor design choices that haven’t been corrected and is an easier problem to address. Provided they are willing to let go of said bad design choices and not be caught up in their outdated ‘vision’ of how they like to see the game.
Another interesting thing not into this list is solo queue improvements. I still put camping/tunnelling above that but not by much.
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It’s a beginner perk which is locked behind a survivor you have to pay for. Genius. Even worse the generic perk Deja Vu is straight up better almost always and has the added bonus of preventing 3 gens.
Frankly I’d make Visionary a free perk or rename it and make it a free/generic perk and give Felix a new perk entirely.
If they must keep it the way it is, removing the restriction on the timer and make it so that it tracks the closest 2/3/4 generators and on top of that it shares this information with your team within 32 meters.
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I really wonder about FOMO though because people who get into the game later have no chance of getting something in the first place. That’s lost sales. I got into the game March this year and some things I didn’t realise were time limited I missed out on but would have bought. Other things too from before I was around I might have bought. All that is lost sales.
I mean maybe the amount of new players who buy isn’t high enough to counter the effect of FOMO on the current player base but still… it feels scummy. If they really want to exploit FOMO simply make such things half price on release then jack the price up later as to not block out people who want it but never had a chance.
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In general: Killer sided at lower skill levels, survivor sided at higher ones.
Maps, killers and other factors can vary this but yeah, Solo obviously gives the killer a massive advantage too.
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This question was on the survey they did not long ago. I really hope they don’t use that as a justification to undo the blood point changes and instead make it easier to spend them. Better still remove a lot of the crap offerings while they are at it.
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@Nyxsie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222948#Comment_3222948
Wouldn't it be simpler to say that they weren't taken that night, instead of suggesting different universes? If they use Joey to further the story and explain what happens next in the woods, they could clean up the mess easily and the rest of the lore falls into place.
It actually makes perfect sense to me that they hired Jeff to do the mural. Being an artist doesn't mean you enjoy, are willing, or even can do any type of art. Sketching people is entirely different from letters. If Julie didn't want to do it, I'd relate to that as an artist who has always hated lettering. However, that's not to dismiss the possibility Frank could have simply got caught up in the moment, liking Jeff's style.
(The Lunar Year was Feb 1996, year of the rat. my bad)
Fair enough. Obviously not an artist, wish I was. I suspected that as an explanation but yeah.
Anyway that would mean retconning written words but I guess if you don’t use multiple universes you are forced to either retconning Jeff’s lore, the base lore or Julies tome. I’d pick Julies tome and make them come up with the name of the Legion sooner. Even though the name is part of the whole point of that story it’s not a big deal.
Also considering the seriousness of what they just did as well as hiding the body in the car of the person who had got fired from the store that day it’s likely they’d get caught very quickly unless they went on the run and even then. Frankly I wouldn’t like that direction. It simply changes too much that is well established.
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@Nyxsie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222711#Comment_3222711
Hopefully they will introduce more lore with Joey, and fill in the gaps in a way that makes the story clear.
Now every way I come up with to make sense of it feels like a stretch and like I'm trying too hard lol.
I actually wrote a tome for Joey or at least in the style I thought it could be using Julies as a base going over some events and some of the occupations Joey held and why he got fired. I’ll show eventually when I put out my Joey to survivor idea out there in earnest with lots of art, the premise being in an alternate universe Joey does not stab the janitor and thus he and Susie get taken as survivors instead. Making good use of the multiple universes thing rather then an excuse to justify 4 Kates being in a game, make a mess of lore and sell cosmetics.
See some things I can justify or like explain like why Frank’s base lore of the stabbing is drastically different from Julies memory of it. Trauma or moments like that can cause people to remember it differently.
Unfortunately other things I cannot explain. As I mentioned earlier according to Julies tome they only come up with the name of the Legion when plotting revenge on the hardware store that fired Joey, but then how do they hire Jeff to do the mural? They are taken by the entity that night. On top of that Julie is an artist in her lore so why hire Jeff at all? I mean maybe she’s not confident in that style but that sounds very unlike everything else we know about Julie.
I mean if it were up to me and I had to clean up that mess I’d simply say different universe, the Legion came up with their name earlier and Julie is a musician and not an artist in the one where Jeff did the mural. However I’d establish that on the most part the base lore and tome comes first (at least for Legion) It’s a hand wave sure but what else can you do. There is still some good in it.
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@Nyxsie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222560#Comment_3222560
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222558#Comment_3222558
It is impossible that they were taken that night. The lore doesn't actually say they were, it is just easy to assume that because of how it's written.
Susie's student ID is 1993-1994. It's most likely her Sophomore year ID.
There is a photo of their whole friend group that is dated 1996. (28 August 1996)
Also, this is an assumption: the Lunar Year was most likely the year of the pig.. which was 1995.
This is from the lore page on the wiki and it's the same in game as of current.
All four were digging in the muddy snow to dispose of the body when Frank spotted something moving through the woods. He grabbed his knife and broke from the group to check it out. The Fog thickened around Frank, becoming so dense that he soon could no longer see ahead. He retraced his steps and stumbled onto an ominous trail. He followed the eerie path, as if called by the darkness. Julie, Susie, and Joey finished digging, but Frank was nowhere to be seen. Julie spotted his muddy footsteps in the snow and the three of them followed the trail, which took them deeper into the woods. When Julie, Susie, and Joey did not return home that night, their parents thought they'd run away with Frank. Each family came up with a different theory. The mood in the town changed, however, when a body was found by an abandoned lodge up Mount Ormond.
There is no other way to interpret that as that they were taken the same night they killed the janitor.
Honestly it's a mess. Part of me likes a lot of what they've got but they need to straighten it out. Especially what is reality and what is 'wishful' thinking. I mean I think I've heard cosmetics aren't canon and I think that's to justify someone wanting to turn Susie into a school age serial killer rather then the base timid girl that she is among other things.
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@Nyxsie said:
Frank and Julie had already touched the topic of killing together. Even though the Janitor wasn't planned, they were on the same page. Susie wasn't, so she was shocked. That's the origin story lol. Just because she was shocked and hesitant at first doesn't mean she stayed that way.
In the years after that (from the point of the origin story until she was between 18-21 and taken by the entity) we know that she went after the cheerleader that bullied her, the neighbors that she envied the happy life of, literally paints with blood, and even stabs an unsuspecting stranger in back in an alley... "She left him in the cold street, bleeding." just to impress Frank.
Frank may have forced her to take that first step, but being a killer was something she embraced afterward. She kills to impress / fit in with her friends, but also for her own pleasure and revenge.
Except according to Frank’s or the base lore the entity takes the group that night while burying the body of the janitor. Susie doesn’t have time to develop this way. I agree though her time in the entities realm would likely grow her this way or if she had the chance to develop she would embrace her darker nature.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222414#Comment_3222414
The cosmetic is her lunar new year knife, though her midnight artist set and the cheerleader set from one of the recent rifts both have some "Susie was very violent in her school days" information or at least implications. The new year knife definitively has her stabbing a random dude.
Also, yeah, Julie's tome clashes with Frank's lore and makes her sound like the main instigator in the Legion. Personally I liked them as a group of troubled kids who started out screwing around with lowkey vandalism and egged themselves on way too far, not a bunch of irredeemably messed up anarchists who united in their mutual desire to watch Ormond burn.
Ah the knife. Didn’t look at that, looked at the other two. I dunno even that description is so ridiculous and exaggerated compared to the rest of the lore that it makes me think it’s wishful thinking. It is definitely really odd to put it in such blunt terms though.
As for the tome honestly I think it’s based on perspective. Everyone is the hero or protagonist of their own story so the fact Julie sounds like the main instigator isn’t surprising seeing as the story is told from her point of view.
Admittedly the video of the stabbing puts me off more because even if you didn’t have Frank’s version it’s simply weird because the killing was not premeditated. I do tend to be an innocent until proven guilty kind of guy though so I just believe that this is Julies way of remembering it. To hide her shame and further her romantic belief with Frank.
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@Tony_ said:
The best example is Legion. In their main lore they were kids who wanted to terrorize Ormond not by killing, but by making chaos. They stole ,,Stop" signs, wrecked some stores and robbed some places. Never intending to hurt anyone. Then they kill a Janitor, but its becouse Frank made them do it. Also he was saving Julie. But in one of Suzie's cosmetic we learn that she STABBED a random seller to steal a Jacket.
What is the point of making a lore for lost kids manipulated by ,,Older cooler kid" into killing one person into making a lore about generic 4 man swf with knifes. Doesn't make sense at all
I think with Susie she has a lot of dark thoughts but doesn’t act upon them. When push comes to shove she’s the timid girl who doesn’t want to kill. Granted I’m having trouble finding the cosmetic in question but a lot of Susies cosmetics imply a lot but implication doesn’t mean action.
I mean Julies tome as it stands has several contradictions with Frank’s lore and things such as the mural that Jeff did. I mean different universe magic maybe and simply remembering things differently but yeah.
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I honestly believe there’s someone at BHVR who gets some sadistic pleasure out of this. I mean making it like this to start with is questionable but understandable but keeping it this way for as long as they have without even trying workarounds or public experiments and solutions? Yeah someone loves the survivor salt and gets enjoyment out of making others miserable and resists any positive changes that endangers their salt supply.
This needs to be stamped out hard. The only thing offered is bandaids like reassurance which would do next to nothing in this scenario.
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Yup this feels like the suggestion box with the shredder. Makes salty people feel better but ultimately does nothing.
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You put a load of effort into this. I liked the read. I only read the killer thus far and I’ll read the rest later. Paragraphs would have been good but maybe it bugged on you.
I hope you get a lot of feedback on this. Creations can be a bit of a dead section so don’t be discouraged if not many people reply.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209735#Comment_3209735
Good lord this. Clicking is annoying as killer but it's survivor where it really irritates me. Having some Dwight click at me like he's the airport runway guy trying to direct me to land, or something.
Oh so that's what they are doing? Wish I could land a plane on his face.
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Yeah on both sides of play I’m happy about this. As killer it’s obnoxious but I actually hate it more as a survivor. People use it as a means of getting attention when I’m already well aware of them and I stop repairing a generator or something because I think they want something and they just run off and they are just saying hi. It’s very off putting and gets me out of my zone of awareness.
Its even worse when it’s not clear what they want because I’m not fluent in rapid flash light clicks or I know there’s a reason I don’t want to follow or whatever. Nope, click click click click like an impatient little child until they get what they want and then they cry like a child when they learn the reason I didn’t follow.