Sharby
Sharby
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@MyelinXCVIII said:
As a Legion main, MFT has been pretty bad for me. I've ended up dedicating 2 perk slots to force exhaustion (current build being Blood Echo, Dead Man's Switch, Fearmonger and Thrilling Tremors) but there have still been cases where there's been a noticeable difference in how long a survivor can drag out a chase. I've gone against a few people stacking MFT with other haste perks and it's absolutely miserable, limiting haste to one effect at a time (whichever is strongest) would seriously help.
Also why is Dark Theory (a perk heavily limited by its set up time and range) weaker than MFT?
Because boons subtract a perk slot from the user and add a weaker free perk to the team. Thats the whole reason CoH was overpowered, because the free perk wasn't weak at all. Meaning killers had to play vs teams with 19 perks just because ONE person sacrificed their own to bring a boon.
Boons should be weaker than perks.
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People want build diversity from survivors but want every perk that is a strong contender to older perks nerfed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I promise you if hope/resilience/adrenaline were released today it'd be the same thing.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456626#Comment_3456626
Putting words in my mouth again? What I said was:
"Because the problems that Made For This has absolutely apply to Adrenaline and Resilience too. They're just not as blatantly overpowered."
To clarify, Adrenaline is broken when 4-stacked by a coordinated survivor team. And Resilience is broken when used with MfT. The problem with these 2 perks isn't even the perks themselves. It's a combination of things that make them potentially broken.
Btw, I'm currently too tired to dissect your previous counter-argument. But once I've had some rest I'll start picking apart everything wrong with it tomorrow.
And there's a lot of stuff wrong with it.
Calling something overpowered means that it needs a nerf. You called both perks overpowered, which means you want them nerfed.
Not sure how that's putting words in your mouth aside from saying broken instead of OP in my post.
You can pick apart my posts all you want, that's why I make posts.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456330#Comment_3456330
You guys might be too young to remember, but back in the days there was a brutal terror that reigned for years and had every single killer cowering in fear. To this very day, no single entity put the killer roster through more pain, despair and suffering, then this vicious instructor.
Those survivors under its heel, that were still learning, retained a bit of mental flexibility, but those that graduated under Dead Hards watchful eye got DH fused to their first perk slot and they would relish to taunt the killer endlessly, while dangling a juicy and bloodied/wounded morsel right before their noses, while everyone involved knew, that they were unattainable.
During the dark ages that were Dead Hards reign, survivors would cherish to taint the killers, while staying injured to activate the likes of Resilience etc.
The get of Dead Hard were more often then nor perfect loppers who didn't need it's power, but still abused it while greeding every palett to the max, always knowing they had a safety net just in case they fumbled or the unthinkable happened.
So no, being injured has never been an "adequate payoff" for the power of a minor godling.
Comparing a perk that literally made you invincible and made you dash to a 3% haste buff is laughable.
Original DH was overpowered and broken, lets discuss why.
It was overpowered because any alternative to taking it was bad, there was zero reason to not run DH, no other exhaustion perk came close. It didn't just join the meta perks, it was the meta perk.
It was broken because any player could use it to full value due to the iframes, and no killer has a counter to invincibility, on demand iframes will always be broken in this game.
Does MFT make any of the current meta survivor perks bad such as Sprint Brust, Adrenaline?
Does the haste from MFT make it impossible to ever catch survivors? Do killers not have a way to deal with the perk?
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@Shroompy said:
Can I ask you something
Yall who think Made For This is truly broken... what do you think of Resilience?
He already admitted to thinking Adrenaline and Resilience are broken earlier lol.
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Just like resilience gives you value from getting injured, the risk if staying injured. If you heal every single time you get injured, you are losing a lot of pressure.
There are four times as many survivors as there are killers, arguing that the populations are the same is what is actually poor imo. The killer is also fully in control of their efficiency due to only having one person.
Sorry to say, but "mathematically broken" is a nebulous statement that doesn't mean anything. There is no threshold for how good a perk is allowed to be unless it is breaking the game, this perk is not breaking the game.
Some perks will always be the best, that's why they become meta. Forcing every perk that pops up as strong to be useless is bad game design, the devs should be releasing perks that replace the old meta ones to keep the game fresh. As long as we don't get meta changing perks every update there is no issue.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456330#Comment_3456330
This counter argument is full of holes. I will point out the biggest ones.
"A good killer will constantly apply pressure and force survivors to use resources. If a killer gets to the end-game with multiple strong loops still intact, they failed. It isn't a perks fault, but a skill issue, excusing some of the more egregious maps of course"
While it is true what killers will slowly whittle down survivor resources over time, expecting killers to completely remove all strong loops by the end-game is ludicrous. Especially since the strongest loops in the game are based around a combination of windows and pallets. So you cannot fully remove their effectiveness. Even on the more balanced maps like Coal Tower.
And even if you managed to get rid of every single pallet on a map, the time it takes to fully remove everything is so long that the survivors would have been given way more time than needed to repair every single gen and escape.
As killer, you want the survivors to use as few resources against you as possible. Not as much as possible. If you think that's a skill issue you simply don't understand the game.
"If a survivor is intentionally staying injured, it's because they want to pressure or have perks that alleviate the massive downsides of being loud, easy to track, and one health state"
This is why being injured is such a non-issue for good survivor players. There are plenty of good perks that make staying injured less of a risk and even encourage it. E.g Iron Will, Dead Hard, Resilience, Off The Record and Adrenaline. All of which make Made For This even stronger by compounding how low-risk it is to stay injured.
"If you're going to complain about MFT, don't downplay the costs of being injured, and actually be objective in your calling for nerfs"
The whole reason I'm calling for Made For This to be nerfed is that it removes a lot of the risk of staying injured. So much so that it rewards people for it. I have constructed an objective list of everything wrong with the perk and how to fix it without outright gutting it in this post.
You might want to read that before commenting again and making points that I've already addressed.
"At this point, the perk will most likely be nerfed because of how loud people are being, but most of the arguments I see against it are terrible and could easily be applied to perks like Adrenaline and Resilience"
The perk should get nerfed because it's overpowered. There's plenty of good arguments explaining why. But if you're as attentive towards my arguments as the others, it's no wonder you think they're terrible.
Because the problems that Made For This has absolutely apply to Adrenaline and Resilience too. They're just not as blatantly overpowered.
Zoning and creating deadzones is a very common tactic in high-level killer play, most videos I watch of pro killers choose a section of the map to control, particularly ones with 3-gens, and force survivors to shed blood to chip away at the objective there. Idk why you would ever want survivors to use nothing against you, I personally, am overjoyed if I can zone a survivor into using Shack pallet at the start of a match for example.
Being injured is still an issue for even the best survivors, which is why resets still happen in tournaments. Iron Will and Off The Record are mediocre perks. And being less of a risk does not mean the risk isn't there or that its irrelevant, I don't see why this is a point of contention.
Calling something unbalanced or overpowered means that the perk removes any alternatives and is oppressive to play against due to having no counterplay. 3% haste for playing without exhaustion and an extra healthstate is balanced, very strong, but balanced because there is still healthy counterplay and tons of alternative perks that rival it in strength on both sides. The devs specifically made it not work with exhaustion to make sure it didn't completely negate the desirability of exhaustion perks.
Even if that weren't the case, the overwhelming majority of survivors are not good. And unless you are playing comp all the time, you are not running into really good survivors very often, if ever. The game shouldn't be balanced at an echelon that 99% of the playerbase will never reach, it should just be a consideration when it comes to not rendering the game unplayable in a competitive setting.
Tournaments already have tons of rules regarding perks and items, so MFT absolutely does not threaten the competitive community, whereas perks like Reassurance absolutely stirred the pot since hookstages are crucial in tourney games.
If perks that encourage a high-risk/high-reward playstyle such as MFT, Resilience, and Adrenaline are being called overpowered, then there truly is no survivor playstyle left that isn't overpowered. So arguing about it becomes pointless. Permit me to be dramatic, but at this point the devs should just stop releasing new survivor perks if the only acceptable ones are the trash we got in the previous two chapters, as it needlessly adds bloat to the roster of perks.
As stated before, the perk is very likely to get nerfed, but I am of the opinion that this will be a kneejerk reaction to overblown outrage, rather than any sort of "objective" problem like your title suggests.
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@WeakestNurseMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456317#Comment_3456317
Because it is funny to watch, I personally get bored of doing it fast, but watching others do it compilations(like jrm) is pretty funny.
Now for the killer it's not fun at all, but this game isn't about making things fun for the other team.
The overediting and also the fact that they screw their randoms out of a real game is what makes it stale for me.
If I'm going to watch someone I want to watch them try their best and be a good sport personally. I like to learn from the best.
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@miniwengsel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456330#Comment_3456330
Being lound means nothing if you are 3% faster. Also your logic fails to MFT, because the 3% allow you to use less resurses. You can take additional loops and you can make weaker Windows stronger.
Additional loops =/= not having to drop pallets. Yes, in the hands of a good player, 3% haste absolutely gives you one more loop, two if the killer loses a mindgame, but the reverse can also be true, you will still get downed if you get mindgamed. That's why claims of the perk being uncounterable or autowin are false.
If 3% haste was uncounterable, then really good survivors like Ayrun and co would never die in EGC with Hope, but they still do if they get outplayed.
The 3% becomes more or less strong depending on location as well, but that's a map issue, not a perk issue. Bloodlust also exists to make it so eventually you will need to use something.
If anything, its not the perk thats the problem, but the overabundance of safe loops that exist in the game.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
I want to add a few things to your argument.
- To the people that say the 3% difference isn't a huge deal, I will point you to Trickster. Some of his best add-ons include his movement speed add-ons, add-ons that make you faster by 1% and 2%. Those small numbers make a big difference.
- To those that say it requires you to be injured, so it's okay, but so did Dead Hard. That perk wasn't acceptable. Yes, if you catch them in the open injured, you're probably down them but you could do the same to DH by waiting/baiting it out (DH in the open was easy, if annoying, to deal with). And who's forcing them to stay injured? You can be healthy, tank a hit and then use the perk. It's not No Mither that keeps you injured forever. It works when you need it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456323#Comment_3456323
They patched that out though. If you're in Deep Wound, Endurance doesn't work. The only exception is Mettle of Man which gives a unique effect separate from Endurance.
Speaking of MoM, this perk reminds me of the original MoM. In that, it hurts M1 killers the most---original MoM did nothing against Nurse, Billy, and Huntress, the then meta killers. MFT does nothing against a good Nurse, Blight, or Spirit except maybe mildly annoy them in some cases.
They also punish the killer for dealing damage. MoM gained stacks of basic attacks, the only form of damage M1 killers could inflict which made the perk unfair to them as they couldn't avoid its effect. As for MFT that gives haste when injured by any means, well, you can't not have survivors injured, even insta-down killers will have you injured at points.
Is Resilience similar? A fair point, however, Resilience's effect in a chase only matters in really tight scenarios. Meaning, you need to be good for this perk to shine and be worth a slot, unless you favor being a gen jockey while injured (in which case, yeah, the one-shot argument is perfectly valid). MFT, you can get value from simply W-keying from pallet to pallet/window, combined with it actually helping in loops (especially if you mix it with resilience too).
I'd argue DH also wasn't overpowered, just extremely common to run into to the point where every killer was waiting it out even if you didn't have it, compounding the issue. It was also meta for years.
Based off of this, a nerf was fair, but they didn't even change how the perks works, just the condition for unlocking it, its basically exactly the same which is why I haven't taken it off since the nerf.
Healing isn't as free as it used to be, you lose a lot of crucial gen time for healing, especially in solo queue. So people who are confident in their ability to loop with one healthstate remain injured and run perks like MFT and resilience. If MFT countered some of the injured penalties such as puddles/groans I'd be far more understanding for people calling it OP, but its only use in chase is the haste. Which is very strong, but a perk being strong doesn't mean it should get nerfed. Otherwise we will stay with the same perks forever which is already pretty stale.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456321#Comment_3456321
Because unless the killer is terrible you're going to get injured at least once during a game. Usually many more times. That is why it is lenient.
Resilience is one of the strongest survivor perks in the game. And is very commonly run by good players. If you're trying to argue that survivors being injured isn't good for them, you're not doing a good job of it.
Let's follow the train of thought to the end please.
If a survivor stays injured all game, they have only a single healthstate, the later the game goes on and the more resources are used, the deadlier being injured is.
A good killer will constantly apply pressure and force survivors to use resources, if a killer gets to end-game with multiple strong loops still intact. They failed. It isn't a perks fault, but a skill issue, excusing some of the more egregious maps of course.
If a survivor is intentionally staying injured, its because they want to pressure or have perks that alleviate the massive downsides of being loud, easy to track, and one healthstate. That doesn't magically mean that being one healthstate is preferred, nor does it mean perks that offset being injured are overpowered. They aren't.
If you're going to complain about MFT, don't downplay the costs of being injured, and actually be objective in your calling for nerfs.
At this point, the perk will most likely be nerfed because of how loud people are being, but most of the arguments I see against it are terrible and could easily be applied to perks like Adrenaline and Resilience.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456315#Comment_3456315
Read the post before commenting.
I never said it was unconditional. I said multiple times throughout that one of the problems with the perk was how easy it was to access. Being injured is a really easy thing to achieve. And is not at all fair for the considerably boost in speed the perk gives you.
How is being one health state lenient?
Is resilience OP too since it gives you a permanent 9% boost to all actions? Thus increasing pressure and punishing killers for dropping chase or playing hit and run?
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Every-time I watch survivor streamers/CC's they literally spend the entire game just begging for the killer to chase them so they can spam emotes and BM. It gets stale pretty fast, no idea how acting like that is so lucrative in this community.
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Unlike any of the other haste effects, this one requires you to be injured. Having one health state is plenty cost for a boost.
Pretending like its unconditional is dishonest.
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Expose stacking yeah.
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I keep stuttering/freezing anytime I get hit by an attack with a modifier i.e expose/sloppy etc. Its really annoying.
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The only issue I have with him is the detection of his guards feels really wonky and inconsistent.
Other than that I've played against him so much when he was popular that I've become desensitized to his design and can beat like 95% of knight players without issue.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455433#Comment_3455433
You don't need to use dogshit pallet with 110% movement speed at all.
If you can't understand how big it is, you just don't know anything, literally not a single thing about the game, plain and simple.
And no, deadzone or unsafe pallet also doesn't exist with 110% movement speed, anyone can run around like a headless chicken and reach the safe zone even from the corner of the map.
Never once have I ever said 110% ms isn't strong. It is strong, that's the entire point. There is nothing wrong with perks being strong, or combos being strong.
You sacrifice an entire perkslot to make the combo work ONLY once all gens are finished or hatch gets closed.
In order for something to be "autowin" it needs to be unconditional with no skill requirements to pull off, which, even if the perk gets removed from the game. You would still be wrong for claiming its either of those.
In order for something to be "overpowered", it needs to render all alternatives useless by a huge margin. MFT doesn't work with Sprint Burst, the best exhaustion perk in the game. MFT doesn't work with Adrenaline or Lithe. Meaning even within the pool of chase perks, there are plenty of strong alternatives to MFT.
Please continue to keep telling on yourself though.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455409#Comment_3455409
If survivors mindgamed or getting hit by killer power (which designed to be counterable with just 100% speed) at 110% movement speed, they are very, unbelievably and ridiculously bad, to the point they aren't even trying to play the game.
You are thinking entire survivor playerbase as if they are 1 year old baby, they aren't so please don't.
Shockingly, the majority of the survivor playbase is bad, given the fact this game is a casual one, that's why killrates even for bad M1 killers are still high.
Additionally, there are plenty of unsafe pallets and deadzones are still a thing, acting like 110% movement will suddenly make dogshit pallets not dogshit is false.
If you are suddenly losing most of your games because of this perk, you are just not good at killer plain and simple.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455332#Comment_3455332
Hope on it's own is fine, where did I say there was an issue with it? Same with other Haste perks, on their own they're fine or even weak, the problem is when you run them together and reach speeds you're not really supposed to reach.
Who gets to dictate what speeds survivors are "supposed" to reach? 110% MS still isn't faster than a majority of the killer roster, and you are still injured, meaning any failed mindgame or getting hit by a killer power results in a down. This combo is good only in the hands of good players, who would be strong with any combo. Most of the playerbase is not getting insane value from this duo, therefore rendering any claims about it being auto-win or gamebreaking moot.
Haste stacking isn't uncounterable, it just requires a different approach just like the many other combos for both killer AND survivor.
Anyone claiming they're suddenly losing all their chases/games is coping superhard and just choosing a popular scapegoat.
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If they buff him they should limit teleports per-pod to a single time.
I don't mind being teleported on multiple times but only because I can remove his infection really easily, take that away and his power would be super obnoxious in chase which is why I assume he is the way he is currently.
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@Krazzik said:
Pretty much what other people said, alone it's fine, infact I'd say alone it's really bad, but it -can- become an issue against m1 killers if paired with Hope.
You mean the perk that only activiates after all five gens are finished? How is that an issue? Its not an auto-win combo, you absolutely should be rewarded for playing with three perks the entire game if you managed to still finish the gens without dying.
In the same way survivors aren't entitled to free escapes, why are M1 killers entitled to free kills? M1 killers will still be bad regardless if the perk is nerfed or not, we as a playerbase need to move away from the notion that everything survivor-sided needs to be watered down and balanced around M1 killers, that will never fix the issue and will just make survivor increasingly boring to play.
M1 killers just need buffs as a whole.
And for as much as people say M1 killers are unplayable, they still all have good killrates and can still all 4k more than they 0k due to how the game works, skill variance, and perks. People seriously overrate how bad they are imo.
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They should only charge up to 80-90% passively, and have a timer before they expire if being held. That way they cannot be picked up in chase and aren't just a permanent counter. But can still be used in chase and can still be picked up freely.
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I'd make David King the male survivor equivalent of Feng as far as skin frequency goes.
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If resilience or hope were released today people would be making the same arguments as for why they're broken too.
It's not op, it's a risk vs reward perk much like DH is except far easier to beat than DH because it doesn't prevent usage of lunge or power.
People dislike the perk so much because it's main counter is mindgames instead of mindlessly bloodlusting at every obstacle.
Which unsurprisingly a lot of killer players rely on.
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FYI having a counter does not mean a perk is fair.
Eruption was extremely degenerate, it was permanent on every single Gen kicked no matter what their progress was. It prevented you from doing anything but unhooking for almost a third of a Gen.
It's only counter was playing a guessing game of how good someone was in chase. That's not intelligent gameplay.
Still get nightmares about how my discord calls went during that meta.
"I'm going down let go of the Gen. Just kidding he missed. Im going down now, nevermind I dh'd. Okay this time for real get off the gen, oh I made pallet"
"Sorry I thought I'd make the window."
Good riddance.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454414#Comment_3454414
Anyone who is truly enjoying this chapter is likely not spending time online to talk about the chapter and rather playing the chapter.
Exactly my point.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454040#Comment_3454040
Is it wrong to want a killer that is fun and accessible to play by the majority of players and isn't so bogged down by the hardcoded counterplay mechanic?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/379056/why-all-the-hate-for-the-new-chapter
Survivor got genuinely neat and more universally useful perks, but killers got another slate of pretty niche perks with limited use cases or inconsistent uncontrollable uses. The best one might be Genetic Limits, but that isn't really something great. Singularity is visually cool as heck, but his gameplay's already quite difficult and disorienting to start with and he currently isn't really able to shine due to ever present emps. The average player is going to have a difficult time getting a feel for a power that they often never get to use fully. He's retained a lot of the issues he had on PTB as well such as the atrocious slowdown from cancelling out of cams when near hooks. Like if you're using the cams then you're likely not going to stick around hook.
Where did I say it was wrong?
I'm just explaining why people are being so loud with their hate of this chapter. Its hardly reflective of reality imo.
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People expecting another Wesker + last two chapters being bad + internet's hyperbolic nature = what we are seeing now.
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@MimiDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452219#Comment_3452219
Meta does not need to be broken though.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452417#Comment_3452417
Would 100% agree if the devs would actually do that. We all know they don't nor ever will. So all broken things need fixed (Nurse/Blight for instance).
I do think this is all overreaction though. I just don't like piss poor reasons not to nerf/buff things.
How is my reasoning piss poor?
There's no reason to nerf the perk. It's not broken, its not oppressive, it doesn't win games by itself, its just strong and does what it does well.
The only thing I could think of to tone down is reducing the endurance duration to make it only good for picking someone up mid chase, but even then.
Not saying you think this, but I've noticed a lot of people think that because there's 4 survivors, that all of their perks should be watered down garbage that barely has any impact or is just a troll perk like red herring/deception/etc. Its annoying. Its why I love DH and still use it, its functional by itself which allows for a lot more build creativity.
I'm sick of being forced to bring multiple perks to cover the downside of another which is why I rarely ever change my build anymore. Feels so restrictive when the majority of perks are terrible. This is a welcome change and I hope it stays.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452378#Comment_3452378
Yeah and reassurance is still very powerful despite it only being ables to activate once per survivor.
Its also not meta considering its not consistent due to relying on certain playstyles.
Its OP in competitive I'll give you that.
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452417#Comment_3452417
I’m not even saying it’s broken or op. It’s more annoying than anything. Especially on Killers walking 110% or even Nurse considering people forget she moves slower than survivors. I Just Hope this doesn’t set a trend of movement speed perks.
110 killers have the advantage of being able to down you from long range, in Trickster/Huntress' case you get like 3 chances to do so or more. I don't see what's wrong with perks that emphasize their tradeoffs such as lower MS.
This perk is really strong, but its strong in a healthy way imo, not super obvious and promotes chase/pickups which is cool.
Nerf gen perks instead of chase perks is the way to make the game fun imo.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452378#Comment_3452378
hyperfocus fogwise wiretap. background player also has its uses.
Has its uses =! strong/meta defining.
There is nothing wrong with Survivors getting a new meta perk, and it doesn't need to be nerfed just because its strong.
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452378#Comment_3452378
Do we need to bring up COH? That perk when launched broke the game with insta heals. Also killers haven’t gotten any op perks in a bit last one I can think of COB over a year ago. Didn’t survivors get a bunch of buddy perks last chapter?
My original point was that this is the first strong survivor perk in 3-4 chapters.
Leave it alone, buff stuff elsewhere.
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@Zokenay said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452219#Comment_3452219
Cause they certainly havent gotten any of them in the past did they? they nearly got 2 in this patch alone, both being OP, at least they nerfed one of them, the other still needs a hit
Of the last four chapters, only Reassurance is even remotely relevant.
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Heavens forbid Survivor gets a new meta perk for once.
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452128#Comment_3452128
Who was asking for a win? They never even tried to pick me up, I wouldn’t have wiggled. I just wanted to go next.
The killer doesn't know that.
If they're going for an achievement or challenge that requires a 4k. They'll definitely be super sure of it considering how hard getting a 4k can be sometimes. I know I would.
That being said this person probably just being a sore winner.
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Name one reason they shouldn't.
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I don't get why killer players always act like the world is out to get them.
You could just not be good at the game. Also mmr and the lobby system is heavily skewed towards killers considering you get all the information in the world.
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Survivor: David King because he's best boy and also gay like me. P100.
Killer: Nemesis because he's what got me into the game to start and I exclusively played him for my first like 200 hours. Only p9 though,
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@Brimp said:
Exhaustion as a mechanic is a boosting mechanic. Sure good survivors still use exhaustion because its extremely good if not busted but the majority of times where I lose a match because exhaustion just enables holding W to pallets or super strong windows is numerous.
How is that any different from killers Bloodlusting at every pallet turning every interaction into a diceroll?
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@Sometimes_Sage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450696#Comment_3450696
I'm certainly no top tier Survivor, but I'd assume that camping should occur at all levels; high level player would do it when they have no other chance, mid level players would do it when they think they have no other chance and low level players would do it because they have no meta-knowledge and without that it seems obvious to do.
You're right that's my bad.
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@Sometimes_Sage said:
I see maybe one proxy camper per ten games, face campers are even rarer; is this a platform thing, are there different servers, or am I just the luckiest ######### in the world?
I hate to say it but maybe MMR? Tunneling and camping are seen as a high-level strat according to some.
I am by no means the best player ever, but I would say I'm decently high mmr based on how many big streamers I tend to run into.
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Just wait until Made For This releases and people will forget any other perk exists.
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@HexBazinga said:
Weird that Any means got Killswitched instantly over a specific map bug. But merciless, sloppy etc all get abused nearly every match for over a month each and don't get kill switched.
They're so weird about how they use the kill switch.
I'm actually still shocked merciless didn't get killswitched.
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Slugging is supposed to be high risk high reward.
If it didn't have any risk then hooking survivors would be useless.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
To be fair, this guy has 2 Hooks at 1 Gen left. It is not like he is camping right at the start.
The bigger problem with camping is how effective it can be when done right away. Especially if you include Perks like Deadlock.
Not saying that Killers deserve Kills in Endgame (because they clearly dont, if they suck all game, they dont deserve to get a Kill in Endgame), but it is way more understandable that someone camps when there are all Gens done or only one left.
I get it, and I'm not faulting the player or complaining that he was doing something unfair.
My issue is that of the five or so games I played today, four of them included camping. I should also note I 3/4 escaped every single game that included camping. But even so.
Killers camped during EGC (fine.)
Killers camped during 5 gens (questionable.)
Killers camped during 1 gen left (fine.)
As you can see, camping is so frequent that its to be expected every game. What is going to happen when its nerfed to the point of not being a viable strategy? I'm actually worried. Even players who aren't scummy camp, even good players camp, its no longer a noob strategy. So the amount of people being affected by any nerfs to camping will be quite high.
Secondary objectives won't fix it, because it'll eventually reach that point again. But something is sorely needed, I don't envy the devs having the burden of unraveling this knot. I want to say that the concept of hooks is probably outdated, but idk.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449303#Comment_3449303
This isn’t a fighting game where both sides are equally equipped to be able to counter each other. When it’s 1vs1, the survivor is supposed to be at a great disadvantage. Perks and some game mechanics are meant to help alleviate some of that disadvantage. The game should not hold your hands, for either side, when you make bad plays.
The only thing that screenshot shows is that either your team massively screwed up or the killer was way better than you. It would have taken only one person on your team to bring in Unbreakable and reset the team. It also doesn’t take any perks to spread out and get picked up in a safe location.
I agree that getting left to bled out for four minutes is a problem, but giving survivors a free get out of jail card isn’t the solution. Killer won, sure, they’re being toxic by not hooking, but the game shouldn’t punish them by letting the losers reset. The solution is easy. Let the game detect if the survivors have a way to get back up on their own, if not, the killer automatically Moris one survivor and the entity takes the rest. Maybe cut down the base bleed out time to two minutes or even give survivors a concede option.
Im not against making the game fun for both sides, I’m just against making it more fun for one side while taking away player agency or punishing someone for playing well and rewarding someone for playing poorly. It why you don’t see me saying anything against base-kit BT or the upcoming anti-face camping mechanic. They punish poor killer game play but don’t really reward survivors for misplays.
The problem with your argument is that it assumes the game for survivors is built from top to bottom with the idea of efficient teamwork in mind. It isn't. That's why SWF is considered so overpowered. The game simply isn't designed for it. There's a reason we only have two emotes, 0 pre-made messages, no voicechat, unable to see teammate's perk layouts, etc etc etc. I mean up until recently you couldn't even see who was being chased or working on xyz.
From what I see, the design goal for survivor is/was supposed to be chaos with clutch moments of teamwork sprinkled in for excitement factor. It is a horror game after-all. They're only now adding in solo-queue improvements and that's pretty much entirely due to player feedback and demand.
You cannot tell people to "just be a better teammate" when its excessively difficult to have good teamwork in solo queue unless the match is already heavily skewed to where every decision is super obvious.
This issue becomes especially more complex when we factor in the reality that the stronger solo-queue becomes the worse it will be for killer players overall, which is most likely the reason Dev intervention is so slow, they have to double check every single step they make.
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@RoastedGarlic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3429383#Comment_3429383
as a killer main who happens to be a 12 hook andy, I care about enjoyment of the game overall my self. I don't think healthy hook grabs should be a thing. However I also think survivors fresh off the hook should have zero collision during their endurance. Removing collision off a hook save removes the ability to tunnel, but it also removes their ability to body block.
It would also be nice if the hooks could act like the executioners cages and move but that won't ever happen.
Tbh the fun of the killer matters too, but hook grabs are just clunky and should go.
Again, people wouldn't stress out over denying killers kills so much if killers were rewarded for hooks more than sacrifices.
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Believe it or not, not everyone cares about winning more than having a healthy game.