Seraphor
Seraphor
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Just make illusionary doctors move please.
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As long as the killer appears to each survivor as a copy of one of their other team mates, it could still sow some chaos in a SWF. It would have them second guessing who's who, particularly if they're grouped up and you're there with them. Think back to xmas snowmen.
But it wouldn't be enough of a power on it's own, more of a secondary power.
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While I agree with the premise that dying survivors lacking agency is the main problem, it is entirely by design thst dying survivors cannot further objectives, even side objectives. This is what generates pressure to rescue dying survivors.
Even having actions at reduced rate could be problematic. Imagine you down someone repairing a gen that's at 95%, and another survivor is right there ready to finish it. That is probably the most understandable scenario to slug someone for pressure, but it would be a lose-lose scenario if the dying survivor could finish those repairs even at a third of the speed. The whole premise seems to be punishing the wrong kind of slugging, as it's not going to help in the most egregious cases of killers bleeding you out in spite.
I think what they need to add for dying survivors is a way to exact personal agency. So that you have more control over yourself and your positioning, and your chances of survival.
By allowing dying survivors to 'sprint' with a cost to bleedout time, you may only be adding one single action, but it's still an action that can be taken.
- Hold sprint to crawl twice as fast and bleedout twice as fast.
You can find a safe spot where you can be rescued, which also costs the killer for leaving you if they're then unable to find you or prevent another survivor rescuing you, however this doesn't eliminate the pressure of slugging that something like Unbreakable or the abiliy to further objectives would do.
It would also have the effect of providing a quicker route out of the game if the killer is just bleeding you out obnoxiously.
This shouldn't impact the value of Tenacity, as that would still provide simultaneous recovery and eliminate the bleedout cost.
I do think there should be another effect that only triggers when ALL survivors are slugged, which allows ONE survivor to be able to recover themselves. As this would only cone into play when slugging is used not for pressure, but for 'checkmate' when downing all four at the start of the game or preventing the hatch from spawning.
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Not everyone plays the game every day, and some take weeks off at a time, particularly if there's travel involved.
You can always go back and do old challenges, and there's daily rituals too.
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I personally don't find 5K BP to be any kind of incentive at all. It's so little it may not even exist.
However, if every 4th or 5th node was something like 200 Iri shards, well that's a medium-term goal to aim for, but it's not FOMO because you earn the same just from playing and leveling up anyway.
Hell they could probably still get away with making every 10th or 15th node another 25 auric cells. That's still not going to add up to a single cosmetic peice, but it would be a great incentive.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817452#Comment_3817452
Green Maps should be removed, including all their Add Ons.
@Topic:
Maps and Keys, but I think it is pretty hopeless for Maps. Maps are just not really contemporary anymore, they were decent back in the day, but nowadays the only relevant thing they track are Gens.
Maps and Keys, outside of hatch access, both do the same thing, they reveal auras. They should be merged into one item and buffed accordingly with the traits of both.
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As someone who runs this build regularly, getting 3 tokens rarely happens and costs you so much time it's not worth it. You get 1 token at a time if you're lucky, if you try for more you lose gens.
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@AGlassOfOJ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816856#Comment_3816856
BBQ is definitely one of the more healthy perks to discourage camping, but I feel like it does a little too much for just hooking survivors, which you'd be doing anyways. Not a huge nerf, just change the distance around a little or have it guarantee you see the furthest survivor or something. Idk, maybe it doesn't need a nerf, but it can be insanely strong in the right killer's hands and pretty annoying as survivor.
Also there's no way you just called Devour healthy for the game just because it slightly suggests you shouldn't facecamp lol. You can still somewhat proxy with it decently well and as soon as survivors realize you have it, it completely butchers the pacing of the game as every survivor is thrown into a tizzy trying to find it.
There's no way you're proxy camping at 32+ meters.
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There are a lot of decent killer perks that trigger on hooks as well. As someone who plays for hooks over kills, they're incredibly useful. But there could always be more.
Personally I'd like to see a perk or perks that increase in power for each hook, but decrease in power for each sacrificed survivor. Make it strong enough to be meta and it could be one of the healthiest things for the game.
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@AGlassOfOJ said:
Honestly distortion deserved the nerf, 100%, but now that it's done, some killer perks should get nerfed too. BBQ and Nowhere to Hide are stupidly strong and give huge aura reads for doing things you'd usually be doing anyways.
Can we please not suggest nerfs to one of the few perks that actively prevents camping and tunneling please?
BBQ, Floods of Rage, Devour, Make Your Choice and Friends Til the End are some of the healthiest perks in the game.
The only killer aura perks thst could do with nerfs are Weave Attunement and maybe Nowhere to Hide. Weave needs a range reduction or maybe sone kind of time limit, Nowhere to Hide just needs to be centered on the gen instead of the killer.
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@ErebusSurge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816567#Comment_3816567
the argument that distortion made it too easy for survivors is equally as pathetic when a killer can have aura reading for start of game, aura reading for people who escape chase, aura reading for gens and aura reading for any noise / disturbance.. you don’t need any other perk when you have 4 perks that at all times give you the location of a survivor.. because base kit gives you speed boost / teleport and arms that reach 20 meters to attack you.. killers crying because distortion let survivors play the game is pathetic..
Distortion didn't just 'make it too easy for survivors'.
Firstly, yes Distortion was too effective at what it did. For all of the complaints in this topic about the sheer number of aura perks and add ons that killers have access to, they're still all individual perks, and to get to the level that you all find to be 'problematic', killers have to run four aura perks. Meanwhile survivors only needed one perk to counter all of that. One single catch-all meta perk to undo an entire catalogue of killer tools. That's a problem.
But in addition to the imbalance in that, Distortion was a problem for other survivors too. By being so effective at masking the aura of it's user, it meant that other survivors were disproportionately targetted, leading to unnecessary tunneling. To be the only survivor singled out while the other survivors hid all game was awful. By being too effective of a counter, Distortion only made killer aura perks even more problematic for the survivors that didn't use it.
You don't see that kind of dynamic with most other counter perks. Running Devisive Strike doesn't make it easier to tunnel other survivors. Using Reassurance doesn't reduce the time other survivors have on hook. Triggering Adrenaline doesn't steal a health state from a team mate.
Distortion needed greater cost, so that it didn't disproportionately harm other survivors, and so other aura countering perks could compete.
Object of Obsession is a good perk, it has a fair trade off.
Off The Record is a great perk, it has a relevant situational activation that protects you when you need it most.
And take it from me, as someone who will use aura perks when I play killer, these two can be just as much of a hindrance to the killer as Distortion.
And now that Distortion is finally in a decent spot with it's 15 second charge time. It's going to be just as effective as the old version, providing you get into chases. There's your fair cost.
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@hacendado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816646#Comment_3816646
Object of obsession is not a counter. It gives you problems when you are the obsession. Your aura is automatically revealed to the Killer for 3 seconds every 30 seconds. It increases your chances of being the obsession and if you are not, you can become it just by pure luck with Friends Till the End. It is too unpredictable and it is not worth revealing your aura just for the killer to find you.
3 seconds every 30 seconds is actually very manageable.
Most of the time the killer doesn’t see you because they're not looking for you, because it's not their perk that's causing it. The rest of the time your aura can be hidden behind a gen. And if you're really worried, just step into a locker for 3 seconds, the perk warns you when it's going o happen.
OoO is a top tier perk.
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I agree that the new Distortion is a little too much of a nerf. It could probably do with being 20 seconds of chase.
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@UndeddJester said:
So anyway, getting back to things that might actually happen... 😏😏😏😏
J/k, but at this point how do you reverse this?
- People who buy/bought DLCs for perks now get fewer perks on new characters, you can bet that'll be a complaint.
- How do you handle Adepts? 2 perks now?
- Fewer opportunities to introduce something new/shake up the meta. Make chests better? They suck why bother. Invocations? Not strong enough. Are obsession or Hex perks? They are crud, don't use em. If every perk is meta, that means every perk has to extend chase/self heal or have strong auras/slow down gens. How many flavours of the same crud do we have to have?
Having 3 perks gives 3 chances for something interesting to stick. 2 perks means fewer chances to innovate and more pressure to ensure a perk is strong in the meta...
We're seeing weaker perks getting buffed to shake up the whole game constantly right now... there is always meta for those want to be boring and not think about builds, but this game is very fun to bulld new things around... not sure why we want to diminish that.
Having 3 perks gives 3 chances for something interesting to stick. 2 perks means fewer chances to innovate and more pressure to ensure a perk is strong in the meta...
We don't realistically get 3 chances though. They always play it safe with one or two of the perks on a new character, and in fact the last few years that safe perk has usually just been a slight variation on an existing one.
I know it's not particularly realistic for other reasons, but from a gameplay/variety angle there wouldn't be anything of value lost by going down to 2 perks. There's just so much chaffe to sort through as it is and we could do with culling more of it.
The only way I can think of pulling it off is to find some way of doubling up on perk effects that doesn't rip people off. Like new characters come with 2 new perks plus a new flavour of an old one. But that would require a new mechanic whereby you can toggle different versions of the same perk. E.g. Flashbang and Firecracker, mechanically identical but one gives you a firecracker effect instead of the flash grenade. However there's probably only so far you could take that, there may only be half a dozen perks that could work for.
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@SoGo said:
Or maybe the amount of chapters per year could be made smaller.
In my opinion, ir's better when we get 3 better polished and more thought out chapters, than 4 full and 2 half-chapters filled with mediocre content.
No hate to bhvr, ofc.
Their business model is based around 4 chapters a year, it's their main income stream outside of cosmetics. I doubt they're likely to want to cut that by 25%.
However characters with a third less perks are going to be less desirable and probably shouldn't be priced as high. So it's a tough call to make.
But I agree the character and perk roster is getting a bit unmanageable now. New playrs have no hope of learning everything.
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The way it's worded, I would guess that there was a window at the end of loading whereby a survivor DCing wouldn't kick everyone out but would instead load into the game as a bot, but with a bot that 'wasn't there'.
Tbf I have had a fair few killer games lately where survivors appear to load in AFK, then DC shortly after.
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I'd agree with 30 minutes. There's definitely some form of hostage holding going on if you reach 30 minutes.
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@Azulra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/429047/lets-talk-about-ghost-face
Actually, Ghostface's kill rate on NightLight suggests he has a balanced kill rate with 0-1Ks being at 44.08%, 2Ks(which is the middle ground) being at 12.46%, and 3-4Ks being at 43.46%. This means that his average kill rates are balanced out and you, typically, don't have to do the maths for this by just simply checking to see how much his 2K percentages are in the middle of the bar and it is also why NightLight averages his kill rate out at 50.91% because it is just searching for the middle-point of his 2K percentage in all of that.
In the context of almost all other killers having a kill rate of around 60%...
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3812220#Comment_3812220
For Killers and Survivors? Or is it only for Killers?
Everyone
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- All increases are additive, so that they don't stack exponentially.
- All decreases are multiplicative, so that they don't trend to zero.
The confusion with movement speed is due to the fact that killer movement speed is often referred to in relation to survivor movement speed, i.e. 115% relative to survivors 100%.
Haste is still additive, but it's additive to the base movement speed in m/s terms. It's +10% of 4.6m/s. Which is not the same as 125% relative to survivors 100%, but is 4.6m/s + 0.46m/s, so is 5.06m/s. Which is equivalent to 126.5%.
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MMR doesn’t drop if you don't play for a while, but it becomes more 'volatile'. Which is to say if you come back from a break, your first few games back will have more of an impact. Lose your first game and your MMR will drop significantly, and vice versa.
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@Wibwob said:
Tbf, assuming the user can last at least 30 seconds in two chases throughout the game, they still get to block the killer's aura reading 4 times. And that's on top of knowing what aura reading perks they have. I don't think it should be able to completely deny a Killer's aura reading for the whole match.
I feel like 30s is a bit long though, I'd say most chases average around 20s, which would be a better number for this.
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Without knowing what the charge time is it's impossible to say. 30 seconds of chase can be quite a lot.
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Please understand, there is no middle ground here. It’s one or the other. The two styles of play are, by definition, diametrically opposed to each other.
We can answer this as soon as all survivor players unanimously choose the same option. Because both exist, and can exist in any given match, so balance has to account for both.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811370#Comment_3811370
… Isn’t the point of 2v8 to play with another killer present? Not just separated into two 1v4 pens?
The point isn't to stick together like glue, and it certainly isn't intended that you should be unable to hook survivors without the other killer present. That's like making it impossible to repair a gen except when with other survivors.
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@Science_Guy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811370#Comment_3811370
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811371#Comment_3811371
Why do I get the feeling that all of you doomsayers are forgetting that the only way survivors ever have a flashlight in 2v8 is by looting one…
This didn't stop my 2v8 games devolving into chain pallet blinds all the time. With so many survivors and so many chests, it's a numbers game and the flashlights have it.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811358#Comment_3811358
Yes, which are called such because someone like Freddy who can't hit over a pallet has to break them. Even at BL37, that pallet is getting kicked. That's not a reason for BL spoiling every other pallet that is perfectly playable. A Killer BLing the 2 car pallets outside the preschool shouldn't be a thing.
What exactly do you think should happen at that loop if you don't want to leave it but also don't want to get hit?
Without a chase power or bloodlust, there is no mindgaming this loop because you have full visibility, so a survivor with sufficiently fast reflexes is just going to instantly mirror your movements and keep themselves on the opposite side of the loop the entire time.
How is this not asking for infinites?
Unsafe pallets are supposed to exist. You're supposed to use them to chain other loops and to have a resource to stun the killer with. Not run around it a thousand times while 5 gens pop.
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@AssortedSorting said:
Or maybe if it's too much a problem, that other mysterious being you're queued up with could try to intercept/harass the flashlighters. In an almost… co-operative fashion?
So now you're forcing the killers to go around together the whole match and double-team every survivor, or else be descended upon by a flock of flashlights.
I thought getting double-teamed was unfair and boring?
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Missing M1s*. I should probably edit the post, but it's an important distinction. Power cancels bloodlust, missing a basic attack does not
Which is a good thing because aim assist can make you miss M1s you shouldn't have.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810558#Comment_3810558
So are you saying Nurse Blight and Wesker don't need bloodlust?
Any killer that is using their power in chase, is not using bloodlust anyway. It is a non-issue.
That's precisely why Bloodlust is a good and healthy mechanic, it works where it's needed, it doesn't work where it's redundant, it's self limiting.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811225#Comment_3811225
No, I am not complaining about that. Nice Strawman.
The problem with Bloodlust is that at this point in the game, it is either not used (strong Loops) or used with not being needed (weak Loops). How you translate this into "you are complaining you cannot run a Killer indefinitely" is funny. Shows that there are not really arguments.
And yes, there are Killer players who prefer bloodlusting over using their power. And it is super-boring to play against them.
How are you not arguing that when the use of bloodlust 2 or 3 means you've already had a long chase? You've already used pallets, or at least you should have. You're not getting outplayed by bloodlust, ever. If bloodlust is in effect you're already winning and gens are popping.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811164#Comment_3811164
It is used by strong Killers as well. Just not the ones which are good at the game.
Using Bloodlust means you're not using your power.
Using bloodlust means you're playing an M1 non-chase killer, whichever killer that happens to be.
Using Bloodlust as Blight? You're not using your power, therefore you're a non-chase killer. And you're still playing worse than if you used Blights power.
Bloodlust is not an issue, it is the last resort and the least effective way to play killer. Waiting 35 seconds until you have a chance to hit the survivor you're chasing is already going to lose you the game.
You're complaining that you can't run a killer indefinitely, which the game is not designed to allow you to do. Survivor resources are supposed to be finite, the killer is supposed to catch you eventually, because it's an asymmetrical game. You are not supposed to with a 1v1 scenario under normal circumstances. Doing so is supposed to require additional resources, perks and/or teamwork.
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@Jacknalls_Paw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810558#Comment_3810558
BL is used for high-mobility/chase killers too that makes them even stronger.
What about these?No it's not. Bloodlust is literally worse than just using their power.
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Making gens faster is a lazy way to tip the scales and will likely just make playing killer with a friend (the whole point of the game mode) a miserable experience once you fet to sweaty MMR with survivors who are efficient on gens. Which was what made 2v8 killer miserable the first time, having 3-4 gens pop before you've got more than a couple downs.
What they should have done is come up with a novel way of allowing survivors to counter a double-team attack from killers. That's what was unfair for survivors and what made playing survivor miserable the first time.
2v8 needed to give survivors something new, and some kind of power that activated when being chased by two killers at once could have been interesting, and give them a chance in an otherwise no-win situation.
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Remember when flashlight saves required precise timing and if it didn't work you chalked it up to skill?
Now the game gives them to you for free it's an outrage the odd time it doesn't work!
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@Aven_Fallen said:
At least Bloodlust 2 and 3 should be removed. I see it more and more that Killers just Bloodlust loops which they should not Bloodlust. They dont try to mindgame them and they dont break the Pallet either. (Not talking about something like Shack or Jungle Gyms here)
And this is just boring and way too effective, since you dont get as punished for that as it was a few years ago.
EDIT: I also think that whiffing should remove Bloodlust. If the Killer is so bad that they miss a few times, they should not be rewarded by getting faster.
The game can decide to whiff for you thanks to aim dressing, completely out of your control.
At most missed attacks could have a slightly longer cooldown (like 0.4 seconds), but removing Bloodlust is way to much of penalty for something you can't control.
BL 2 and 3 could comfortably go back to being 30 and 45 seconds respectively though.
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@Ayodam said:
It was meant as a temporary counter play solution to infinite loops, which no longer exist.
And ended up being a simple and elegant equaliser for low-mobility/non-chase killers.
Removing bloodlust now would see those killers struggle even more, and force us back into a Nurse/Blight/Wesker meta.
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@Nazzzak said:
Did they say it was to combat camping and tunnelling? All I remember is they felt it was necessary after increasing gen times by 10s a couple of years ago and observing the results of that
I believe the official stance is that camping can be a valid tactic, whose counter is for survivors to slam gens and take advantage of the killers lack of pressure.
Increasing hook times gives survivors more opportunity to do this in light of increased gen times. Therefore all it does is allow survivors the agency to counter camping in the most basic way possible.
It's about as innocuous as you can get, it's not a direct anti camp mechanism like the AFC gauge or running anti camp perks like Reassurance.
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Distressing is a support perk, it's absolutely fine for it to be weak on it's own because it has a multiplicative effect with it's synergising perks and powers.
It's like Lethal Pursuer, a limited effect by itself but a staple for any aura builds. Or Hex Undying, weak on it's own but protects your other Hexes.
Making perks like these more powerful on their own leads to balance issues when you stack their effects.
What I will say is that it's a little odd to still have perks with Bloodpoint modifiers. I would have thought they'd have removed this by now and adjusted the Deviousness scores for some of the struggling killersn but maybe they've put that on the back-burner for the time being.
If and when this does happen, then I can see them replacing the BP bonus with a more tangible effect, but still something that isn't too impactful on it's own.
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If you don't camp then the hook timer is entirely inconsequential....
Keeping a survivor on the hook long enough to go to second stage shouldn't be the killers objective, outside of pressuring other survivors enough that they don't get the opportunity to go for the save.
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Except for all those people with friends on other platforms who communicate via Discord etc.
The point is to be able to invite to/join parties with them.
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Scratched Mirror is the single most fun thing in the game.
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Prove Thyself does stack, but so does the coop gen efficiency penalty:
What this means is, if every survivor working on a gen has Prove Thyself, each stack is mitigated by the efficiency penalty, so you don't get increasing gen speeds.
However if survivors are crouching next to the gen, they're giving you stacks of Prove Thyself, but they're not triggering further levels of efficiency penalty, so it will increase your repair speed above baseline, making the bar yellow and repairs faster.
This is still slower than just having everyone repair then gen though.
Fun fact: I once had a gen right next to a hook, upon which a survivor had Prove Thyself. I got the bonus and finished the gen faster with his Prove Thyself bonus while he hung there. In this one scenario this was probably more efficient as the gen was repaired right before the unhook, avoiding a tunnel attempt interrupting the gen.
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Certain bloodpoint rewards, typically those you can't avoid accepting, will exceed the cap. But if your BP is above the 2mil cap you won't receive any more BP from matches.
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Not one perk, but a killer perk format, designed to reward spreading hooks and dissuade tunneling:
- When a survivor is hooked for the first time, gain 1 token.
- When a survivor is killed or sacrificed, lose 1 token.
Then the resulting effects for each individual perk:
- For each token, your movement speed is increased by 1%.
- For each token, survivors repair generators 3% slower.
- For each token, your terror radius is reduced by 8 meters.
- While you have 4 tokens, reveal the aura of any survivors within 8 meters of you.
- While you have 4 tokens, the auras of generators indicate their repair progress.
- While you have 4 tokens, survivors suffer from Mangled.
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You prepare an EMP ahead of time, ideally holding it while you work on a gen.
After you get hit with a sac, use the EMP to both remove the sac and the biopod that gave it to you. You've just undone the killers power, and forced them to walk all the way back over to you in order to chase you off the gen and reset his pod. The killer is now an M1 killer who wastes time looking through cctv cameras instead of progressing their objective.
At least that's how you counter the static biopods that the killer sets up near objectives. When it comes to chase you have much fewer options, which is how it should be as the chase power involves more skill expression. You might get the opportunity to cancel one mid-chase biopod if you have an EMP and that's it.
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Survivor bots exist to give the remaining survivors a fighting chance. Otherwise it would be an instant 3v1 and the game would be lost.
I do however think that in the unlikely event that ALL survivors DC, the killer should be given the option to end the game, immediately sacrifing all remaining survivor bots. After all, the equivalent for survivors, the killer DCing, results in four escapes.
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How about when I want to play a chill Mirror Myers games with random perks that usually affect my terror radius, and therefore am essentially playing a perkless, M1 killer with no chase potential, and I bring an indoor map offering just so gens don't fly by in 2 minutes?
I play Chaos Shuffle for the fun of it, and for a match without full meta. Where I can still gain a modicum of control over the direction of the game and can let the survivors goof about with their quirky perks too. But can't really do that on a wide open map.
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Kinda both, it starts high and is angled down to the center at it's farthest point.
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/168a34r/xenomorph_tail_hitbox_visualized_over_large/
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"Basekit Cypress Mori" was a common request as an alternative to the "Finisher Mori" they tested a while back.
But they couldn't just implement that without also making changes to mori offerings that nobody asked for.
There's frankly no reason to remove the additional options to mori from the Ivory and Ebony mori offerings, there's no balance considerations to be made, as being able to mori the last remaining survivor has no impact on any situation in which you would want to mori a survivor before only one remains. Removing the ability to mori earlier in the game is entirely unnecessary, and goes against the motivations to make Cypress basekit which is to make mori's more accessible, not less accessible.