Seraphor
Seraphor
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Some killers could be pretty annoying to play this way, but it might work out ok.
But only if add ons aren't spent when used. It sucks having to grind out some of the rarer add ons and to have your small stock of them used up by chaos shuffle would be a pain in the ass.
Offerings probably shouldn't be random, unless we go with no offerings at all and give everyone a default +200% BP bonus on top of the role incentive.
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@upsideinsanity said:
I love reading the comments that come from the obvious killer mains when the question was at people who actually play survivor.
I agree with WolfyWood… I don't care what your perks are even if they give away how sweaty you are going to play. Its the playstyle that is the problem. Don't hard tunnel. Don't hard camp. Don't intentionally make the game miserable for the survivors.
"Don't be an arse on purpose" is the absolute best way to sum it up.
As someone who plays both roles, both scenarios are valid.
Yes, I'm sure most survivors just want killers to not play like complete #########. For example I had a survivor game last night in Chaos Shuffle, a fun additional game mode with little real incentive for competition, in which one survivor had No Mither and another had Weaving Spiders. Killer immediately tunneled the two broken survivors. All I would have liked is if they didn't tunnel the obviously handicapped players.
However, it's also true that survivors exist that are simply never happy. That you can explicitly avoid tunneling and camping, even using perks that work against it such as Make Your Choice. You can even let survivors go, you can down a survivor you know is on death hook and leave them slugged instead of eliminating them, and then later watch the survivor walk out of the open exit gate, having passed up numerous chances to have killed them, and they will still hurl abuse at you after the game. I have plenty of first hand experience of this.
The attitude you're bringing here is tantamount to "not all
mensurvivors".It's very easy to say that "everyone just wants everyone else to play fair", bit that's disingenuous. Just as there are killers who will always tunnel and camp, there are survivors who will never accept anything less than killers throwing the game. There's also an additional factor in the games asymmetrical format, in that the killer has the agency to be able to play fair and is therefore expected to, meanwhile survivors are more subject to the actions of other players (killer and other survivors) and therefore lose more when playing fair. Which is why you never see survivors slowing down gens or offering up free hooks whenever it becomes apparent the killer is struggling. Killers are expected to play fair, but survivors aren't. Is that fair?
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@A_T_E said:
Yeah, "wallhacks" in a game with built-in "wallhacks" (aura-reading) is always funny to me. Just gotta not care. Kill 'em, move on, happy times.
I've even been accused of cheating with wallhacks when I played Scratched Mirror Myers.
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@Caiman said:
I need bedsheet ghost Dredge, 90s desktop Singularity, and trenchcoat detective Unknown.
Nothing else matters to me. Not a big fan of most of the survivor submissions, and most of the badges and banners are good.
But those killer designs are 11/10. Singularity and Unknown really need new cosmetics, too.
Exactly what I voted for too.
As for survivors I went Adam, Gabe and Jake. Wasted votes because Sable's obviously going to win.
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I second the comment that this is sort of backwards because killers should be aiming for short chases while skilled survivors will ultimately score long chases and thereby be punished for playing well. Also that the numbers are a little high.
But this could work as an obsession perk.
If tokens are only gained while chasing the obsession, meanwhile downing the obsession turns another random survivor into the obsession.
That could be fair; tunes down the potency a little, provides survivors with a workaround that requires them to give something up, and disincentives tunneling. Plus it kinda synergises with PWYF and/or Nemesis, maybe even Dying Light.
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Sure, but then add another 15 seconds to gen times.
You'll still screw over hit and run killers, but that should balance out the time saving.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799537#Comment_3799537
There's a reason you completely base MMR off of the results of one match.
In your "2k" example, sure, maybe the survivors soundly beat the killer and the killer managed to get 2 at the exit gates or something. Killer got lucky once. (Also possible the 3rd survivor dies to complete final gen, and the survivors barely escaped at all. I've done that personally) But over time, as more matches get played, that same result isn't going to happen every time.
If you have similar MMR survivor teams, and the killer is consistently getting a 2k, even if you don't want to call it a draw (for some reason), you have to admit that the game was close. Again, this isn't a one off "got lucky" match, those happen as well, but if this is happening consistently, then the matches could easily go one way or the other and the killer and survivors are, at minimum, well matched.
A 2k is usually the least likely result of the 5, and most game are either a 1k or a 4k.
most game are either a 1k or a 4k.
But do you not see the implications of this?
Most killer losses still acheive 1 kill, most killer wins snowball to 4 kills. If you took these two games, you'd have a 50% win rate for the killer, but a 37.5% win rate for survivors and a 62.5% kill rate. If these are truly the most likely scenarios, then they have an impact on the average win/kill rates.
Combined with what I said above about most 2K games being mostly a survivor win up until one final mistake, average kill/win rates are not in sync.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797479#Comment_3797479
its blatant that bhvr considers 2k a survivor win. bc if they didnt theyd buff survivor.
i dont know whats not clicking there
A 2K could very well be a survivor win depending on the circumstances.
At the very least a 2K means the gates are open, which means the survivors have played well enough to acheive they main objective. If it happens that the killer has only scored a couple of hooks on different survivors up until that point, the survivors have clearly outplayed the killer. If it then turns out that the survivors make an overly altruistic play that results in two of them getting hooked and the other two escaping, while it's technically a draw, the gameplay leading up to it is anything but.
Can you understand how regarding this kind of play as a draw would be overstating the killers performance and skill? And how regarding this kind of gameplay as the ideal middle ground would be a miserable experience for killers?
I'd wager the majority of 2K games play out similar to this to varying degrees. Meanwhile killer 'wins' are more prone to snowballing into 3K and 4K results, and even when the survivors clearly win it's usually possible to seure at least 1 kill. It means kill rates are inflated relative to the experience of the players.
This is why I previously said that survivor and killer perceived win conditions are at odds (and asymmetrical in an asymmetrical game). Killers ideal balanced state, as far as how the game is currently formatted, is an average 2.5K (62.5%). While for survivors, a 2K (50%) average is the fair middle ground. Which means to keep both sides happy you need a kill rate between 50% and 62.5%, and both sides will perceive themselves to lose more than they win.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797673#Comment_3797673
If you haven't been hooked, then why are you worried about anti tunnel?
If you have been hooked, OTR is better in every conceivable way.
Do you understand what "versatile" means?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797662#Comment_3797662
it is stealth perk. it is design to hide away from aura perks. not engage with the killer.
Its not designed to be the only stealth perk worth running and cause the killer to inadvertently tunnel your teammates.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797662#Comment_3797662
Distortion is useless as anti tunnel. OTR is simply, objectively better, since it gives endurance, makes you silent, lasts longer than 12 seconds, and consumes all aura reading during the duration, not just the first instance.
And that's on the off chance that the killer doesn't stay near or return to the hook. Distortion does nothing if the killer is there to watch your feet hit the ground when you're unhooked.
Off the Record only works off an unhook though, Distortion will be more versatile. It's a trade off, instead of one being objectively better like current Distortion.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797517#Comment_3797517
should be opposite. you only recharge tokens outside chase like stake out and diversion. that way, you stop procing tokens 24/7 vs like cigar box clown and other add-on like it. rat poison, so on.
Recharging in chase means it rewards killer engagement, and also serves as anti-tunnel, because what were you doing right before you got hooked? Being chased.
Recharging out of chase means the Distortion user is even more incentivised to just hide and scurry away while all their teammates die for them.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797381#Comment_3797381
Your Distortion change makes too much sense. That’s why it won’t happen.
I mean, I typed this before I saw the changes we're getting, and it's honestly not too different. It's probably a bit more of a nerf than my suggestion, but at least the 'reactivates in chase' aspect is more consistent and less reliant on the length of chase, which means it's not disproportionately more powerful on higher skilled survivors.
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@AssortedSorting said:
Still a bit skeptical of the trigger conditions for the final Mori (given the offerings were redesigned, and I’m unsure how they were made obsolete in the first place, Ivory and Ebony both had the unique feature of letting you perform a Mori before the match has ended, and Ebony enabling multiple), as a “balanced” match might not see the Killer getting one (though that might be incentive for the player to play another round). Of course you could try to curate it by slugging and pushing out other survivors to isolate the last remaining survivor. Though no more Mori parties with survivors t-bagging around during the animation. (At least without the use of a Perk). I do like that it’s keeping its “dynamic placement” and the player having the choice to hook if for whatever reason they wanted to, not railroading the sequence, but instead acting like a Cypress Mori.
I agree, I don't think this warrants getting rid of Ivory/Ebony Mori's.
I think if they want to add on a bloodpoint bonusn then they could just replace the Cypress Mori offering with the BP bonus, then add the bonus as an additional effect to the Ivory/Ebony Mori's with a 'first mori performed per game' condition.
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That's a lot to consider but at a glance:
Poised: Does this activate every time you start a gen? It doesn't trigger each time you let go and then start again right? But alternatively that means you get one aura reveal per gen, which kinda only makes it useful if you're already on a safe gen. I think I would have preferred a cooldown rather than limit once per gen.
Genetic Limits: how will this work with Overcome? Does it counter it completely or is it useless against it?
Distortion: kiiinda similar in effect to what I'd like it to be (regain tokens while in chase) but I'm not sure if it's weaker or stronger. Initially it's weaker, you get one 12s window instead of 3 10s windows. But it makes regaining tokens more consistent, once per chase, so it doesn't matter how long the chase is. Less contingent on player skill. I think it's the right direction, not sure if it's too much of a nerf or not.
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Damn. It used to be "killers only ever run slowdown perks and it's ruining the game!" Or "it's pointless running anything but 4 slowdown perks if you want to win'", while I always argued that info perks are actually more useful and less problematic because you can use info to inform your tactics and be more efficient at direct pressure rather than passive/automatic slowdown.
Now info perks are considered toxic.
"What's left?" They say.
The answer is that everything is fine in moderation and the problem is stacking things can make those things too strong. One slowdown perk is fine, one aura perk is fine, after all these perks are generally balanced in a vacuum so are fine by themselves. Mirror Myers is fine, because you're trading strong info for no real chase/looping ability with limoted lethality.
The problem with Distortion is that it's too good of a counter to that one aura perk that's 'fine on its own' but can be overwhelmed by, you guesed it, stacking 4 aura perks. (It's also mildly problematic for survivors too, if you don't run Distortion and the others do, you're likely to get tunneled)
Distortion should be nerfed a little I think, but in conjunction to some buffs to other aura defence perks. This way survivors have more options besides "you have to run Distortion to survive" and if they want to be completely immune to auras then they have to invest in more than one single perk.
Meanwhile the killer perks that reveal auras the most frequently could also do with a bit of a nerf, so that no single perk can burn through the new nerfed Distortion too quickly. Gear Head and Weave Attunement being the worst offenders I think.
Roll the arms race back a little.
How should Distortion be nerfed?
Change the token recharge condition from "within the terror radius" to "when in chase". This not only means you have to engage with the killer to regain tokens, but it means it serves as a pseudo tunnel counter similar to Off The Record, and it also means you can regain tokens against stealth killers with no terror radius, such as Mirror Myers. This makes it less problematic for both sides; survivors can't hide indefinitely meaning other survivors don't get tunneled, and while you can be more efficient at revealing survivors with Distortion, they regain their stealth after you've engaged with them, allowing you to swap between survivors and avoid tunneling.
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Players should be free to leave up until the moment they load into the match. So I don't agree with locking lobbies or punishing for leaving lobbies. You either keep it as is, or you load straight into the match the moment a fully party of players is matched, cutting out the lobby entirely.
The latter could have technical issues to iron out first, we don't know.
There's also some niche situations where I think the lobby does serve a purpose:
- While it's not really available on console, survivor communication is useful and if there's any chance of coordinating perks before hand, that's a good thing to keep. Without the lobby this is only available to premade SWFs. But, is it used often outside of SWF? Maybe not.
- Some killer perks are very situational and the choice to use them can be informed by the survivors. The biggest culprit probably being Lightborn. Virtually useless unless multiple survivors bring Flashlights. This perk will flat out never be used if you can't see the survivors in the lobby because it's too much of an investment to gamble on.
I'm not claiming these outweigh the negatives of lobby dodging, but they're factors.
Personally I'd rather them come to a solution for backfilling before they make the rash decision to delete the lobby. If lobby dodging didn't affect matchmaking, I can't say I'd have much of a problem with it.
For example, the only time I really dodge lobbies these days is if I'm playing a friendly game of killer and want to match with a couple of PSN players so I can send a GG after the match and share some clips with them. Unlike the in game chat, PSN chat interactions I have are mostly wholesome.
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They should probably just be included in the base game at this point, but it's better than nothing.
I'm not sure why anyone would pay auric cells for them anymore when it's only a minor iri shard grind.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796150#Comment_3796150
Counterpoint:
- The devs constantly release kill rates and various other stats that people care about from a competitive point of view.
- The game has MMR and matches you based on that
- They make balance decisions from a competitive point of view (I.E. they nerfed blight hug tech, something that casual blight players never used, but was very important in competitive play)
How many party games use MMR? Do you think mario party uses MMR, or mario Kart?
A lot of online games use an MMR system, and most of them don't do so as a measure of competition, but in recognition that some of the players are more competitive than others. It's not that the game is either competitive or It's not, it's that it has to be either/both and serve all of those players.
It's used to seperate the competitive players from the new/non-competitive players, which is exactly how DBD uses it and is why there's really only three distinct brackets; new, below soft cap, and above soft cap.
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@WaveyTrey said:
My experience in DbD was far better prior to MMR.
As survivor I end up with incompetent players because all the better ones are pairing up even more to increase their odds of escape. Since escape boosts MMR.
As killer it’s either 4 lemmings, or 4 navy seals. So the trial ends super fast either way. I learn little to nothing these days. That’s why I stopped learning new killers.The best killers out there may agree that SWFs are a hit or miss. It’s because average SWFs abuse comms and perks (exploit) to reach higher brackets against average killers, but that can only take you so far.
That’s why we see big streamers stomping so many groups. Those players they face boosted themselves to the top via exploits, but are no match for a big fish even with their boosts.
MMR makes us obsess, and sweat over something we cannot see.
MMR doesn’t allow people to learn. Especially new survivors, or whenever you want to learn a new killer. You sink and sink and sink.Essentially all MMR really does is force us to get paired up with and against players we shouldn’t be with... The exact opposite of its original intention.
Why can’t everyone realize this?
We all need to demand that the devs change MMR in some way...
1.) Let us see our MMR once upon every reset.
2.) Rework how we rank up. Pipping should still count.
3.) Remove MMR altogether.My experience in DbD was worse before MMR.
Earning emblems and pips, and more bloodpoints in the process, invariably raised your rank. Once you got to green ranks as killer, you were prone to being matched with rank 1s (who could only match downwards), losing most games, and thereby being unable to progress higher, while also not losing enough pips to derank out of this matchmaking limbo. Average/midling killers were forced into this sweatfest. The monthly reset would then result an about a week of even more sweating as everyone rushed to rank up.
Under MMR, you get the games you deserve. If you sweat, you get sweatier games. If you play chill, you don't get inadvertently catapulted into higher skill brackets just because you play often enough.
MMR makes us obsess, and sweat over something we cannot see.
No it doesn't. Nothing in the game tells you MMR exists.
If you ignored MMR (as intended) and played towards earning emblems and pips (as intended, and the only tangible score the game provides you) then you wouldn't need to sweat all the time, artificially inflate your MMR via cheap and boring tactics, or end up in an MMR bracket far above your actual skill level.
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Speaking of, if BHVR even acknowledge that Commodious is the best toolbox, why is it still green?
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795918#Comment_3795918
If someone wants to tell me 90%+ of their games on some killer is swf seal teams, yes.
'Seal team SWF' was an colourful way of describing the calibre of survivor, I have no way of knowing if they're actually a SWF most of the time. The point is, I've been around long enough to judge a survivors skill by their actions, not just by looking up how many hours they have, and there is a marked difference in the level of skill these survivors have compared to my Myers games, and it's at least 90% of the time.
I can't even remember my last Myers game that was against competent survivors (i.e. survivors that know you can loop things instead of running in a straight line until they go down) and I've been reluctantly stomping the last few days in an effort to raise my MMR. It is not just because Myers is a powerful killer (if there's anyone who even thinks that) I'm not talking about game results and whether or not I win or lose, I'm talking about evident skill levels demonstrated by gameplay.
That is my experience. Believe it or don't, up to you, but if you choose to not believe people just because they disagree with you, that's a reflection on you.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795896#Comment_3795896
Because you are lying.
Not even streamers who play this game as a career see SWFS in their lobbies at any high rate. We are talking 1/10 games for those people. And their MMR is higher than yours.Meyers is a pub stomper because of 3 addons his kit has. Any soloQ team loses to him if he is running stone/stone piece or mirror. Or hard skill issue on the meyers….
Ok, sure. I'm just making up the very noticable difference in lobbies between killers.
Why even bother discussing if you can just call everyone a liar?
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795763#Comment_3795763
Im very sorry you think MMR works, that is …. thats an opinion to have for sure.
It doesnt even work correctly for people that play this game as a career and have higher MMR than anyone in this forum. And THEY CONSTANTLY, every match almost, get people that are 100% not supposed to be in their lobbies.
Yes broadly speaking in some cases it does but in the grand scheme of things lobbies are filled more for speed than MMR. Hence the bonus system working against it.Gotta get lobbies filled quickly seems to be a pattern that BHVR wants to keep pressing, rather than quality games; now with the removal of prestige in lobbies (terrible decision).
Hours for the most part are correlated with game knowledge and skill. But im not just solely basing it off their hours played, you see in game how plays/chases are done and then at end game you take a look and its just there clear as day.Please explain how 90%+ of my Myers games are against potatoes but 90%+ on other killers are seal team SWF, without MMR.
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You're already rolling the dice as to whether you get a favourable map or not anyway. Why not just consider "will I get a player who plays a map offering or not" as one of those rolls?
Why not just look away when the offerings come up so you're none the wiser as to whether you ended up on that map by chance? The result is the same. You could have ended up on that map anyway.
I played a Dredge game the other day. I considered burning a Midwich offering, but at the last minute decided I'd rather take the BP than the map advantage and switched to a cobbler. We loaded into Midwich anyway. I lost anyway.
Balanced or not, there's already RNG involved, and you're just psyching yourself out by obsessing over them.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795709#Comment_3795709
Yea unfortunately speed is what is prefered. As a comment I posted above… you get qued with people that are 1000000% not in your MMR every single match.
So it may have been said "MMR plays into it" … but thats also what they say about how lobies are made and welp….
Sometimes you get people that have 20, 200 or 14k hours in your lobbies. Its all just nonsense.It's not every single match at all. In fact it's not always even that often.
I've recently found that my MMR on Myers is significantly different to my MMR on other killers (likely from playing friendly mirror myers games).
My lobbies as Myers are significantly different to my other killer lobbies, more times than not. In fact I struggle to find competent survivors as Myers these days, usually going against survivors who have never heard of looping or even pallets. I recorded a game last night where three of the four survivors literally ran loops of the outer map wall for 5 minutes 'trying' to hide or find someone to heal them. I just stood in the middle watching them, gens didn't get done, I just stood still.
Meanwhile my other killers get full flashlight mobs who have lightning fast looping reflexes and can greed every pallet without fail. And this is playing at the same time of day.
MMR works.
Don't look at play time, that's not always an accurate reflection of MMR. People can get good at this game fairly quickly, while others reach a plateau after a few hundred hours and never improve any further.
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The killer can absolutely make it to the exit gate after closing the hatch in time. If they choose the right exit, which means the survivor still has a 50/50 chance. Considering the survivor would have to forego attempting to find the hatch to pull this off, it's still only one 50/50 coin flip.
Some killers can even make it to both exits in time, forcing survivors to attempt a staggered openning and hiding nearby. While others can trap/monitor exits with their power making such an attempt impossible. Or detect the last survivor with perks to remove any chance of chosing the wrong exit. So it's already in the killers favour more often than not.
The last survivor has to have a fair chance of escaping, so as to not have the 2nd kill determine a 4K, and turn every 2K match into a de facto 4K match.
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Allowing it to work on every hook would facilitate tunneling.
But having it only work once per survivor does nothing to promote spreading hooks either, as you now want to defend the hook and prevent needing to hook that survivor again, especially as the perk works passively while you complete your main objective.
Unlike Pop which for one requires you to leave the hook to use it, and secondly works on every hook, meaning you get more use out of it if you hook everyone 3 times.
The middle ground would be better. Have Pain Res remove 12.5% for the first 2 hooks of a given survivor. This means you have to allow at least one unhook to get value from it, and you get no additional value for hooking a survivor a third time so tunneling isn't incentivised.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795041#Comment_3795041
There is nothing else taken into account for role bonus. Its just whats in most need. Has nothing to do with MMR
Except your MMR will affect how many people you can queue with, thus what role is in need for your MMR bracket.
It hasn't happened often but I have played with people who had a different incentive to me before.
Meanwhile my incentive has been solidly on 100% killer every evening this week.
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@Halloulle said:
half agree. - Though, there is one thing to keep in mind: the dc penalty is, above anything, a managing system. Managing what? Who is in Q at a given time.
So while I agree removing the dc penalty altogether would do a terrible job at keeping people who dc for the silliest reasons out of the matchmaking Q, I think capping it at, say 15 minutes per role, would be alright. Got too tilted playing surv? Take a breather - maybe try a killer match in the mean time. Got too tilted as a killer? Take a breather - maybe try a surv match in the meantime. Even if that person keeps dcing every match (which I assume would be quite the outlier to begin with) they would have a pretty minimal impact on the overall matches, I'd assume.
I would also pair it with reworking the 4%; someone somewhere suggested removing the hook-time-reduction and replacing it with a cooldown; you still get your three attempts but you don't get them in rapid succession, except if you have a perk that is self-unhooking-related or only one surv is not on hook. I kinda like that idea.
Might have been me. I've suggested a couple times; giving the hooked survivor an unhook attempt every 10 seconds, but reducing the penalty for failed attempts to 10 seconds instead of 20 seconds.
This works out exactly the same penalty over the course of the 60 seconds of the first hook stage, but it means a hooked survivor is on that hook for a minimum of 30 seconds.
Some one attempting to take themselves out of the game on first hook would then have 30 seconds for first hook, about 15 seconds for second hook if missing skillchecks intentionally, plus about 10 seconds of cumulative animation time. 55 seconds totel to quit the game.
This would still be the quickest route out besides DCing, so no one is feeling 'forced' to stay in the game, however it gives cooling off time. A lot of people who give up on first hook do so in a fit of frustration, that can dissipate after just a few more seconds.
I've had times myself where I've been hooked and jumped to the rash conclusion that the game is over, only for the other survivors to change tack and rescue me, in time that had I not taken my unhook chances I would have still been on first hook. 30 seconds to cool off and evaluate the state of the game can make a difference.
Similarly, I think DC penalties need to stay, but I think 72 hours is excessive. That's not a cooling off period, that's a punishment. I think they should probably cap at about 12 hours, or at least reserve the 24/72 hour bans for a higher DC count, say around 10 DCs within 24 hours rather than the 6 it is now.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795272#Comment_3795272
They just want you to play perkless and like a bot so they can get easy clips of flashlight saves and tbags at exit gate.
As killer most of my kills these days are survivors who run at me clicking their flashlights, and failing to do gens because of it.
More and more of my games consist of chaining pallets, breaking palllets while getting blinded because that's a guaranteed blind, and repeat until outpositioned and downed, at which point all the other survivors appear to score a flashy save.
It doesn't work most of the time because it's so expected, and I can either feign a pick up as Ghostface/Pig or see them coming as Mirror Myers.
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I'm sorry but adding the trap back to the lobby would constitute a buff to Pig and we don't do that around here.
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1% might be a bit too low. Maybe 8/6/4% would be better. But otherwise yeah, it's not going to make it a strong perk but it could make it actually useful for new players.
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@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794859#Comment_3794859
Wdym? My point is in the first post? I'm not gonna do this 10 times, it's boring.
Even if I did, I'd just be told,
" I can't do this 50 times".
Then take a break for the day and try again when you're in a mindset to play well enouh to survive.
Losing a few games doesnt warrant a "the game is universallly unplayable" catastrophing rant.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794849#Comment_3794849
I have 4500 hours in this game and my kill rate is 89%. Do you want me to keep a spreadsheet of my games and send it to you? Or do I need to record myself playing killer to prove it?
I find it hard to believe someone with that much experience in both roles would be that deluded.
We all know, that the game can tilt strongly to one side or the other given the circumstances, that there are aspects of the game that can be broken or abused and tends to snowball. But it goes both ways and generally evens out.
The only people who think the devs are biased towards one side or the other are people who only play one role.
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Cool
I can play 10 back to back games and that doesn't happen.
What exactly is your point?
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Please play killer for a week straight then come back and say that once your MMR is out of the gutter.
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@Paternalpark said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3ACDVAU39CUJ/20240908-202247.jpg
I just don't see the point in this.
No I don't see the point in picking out individual games as if they're going to be reflective of the game as a whole.
You hit an unlucky streak, it happens to all of us now and then.
But if this is happening to you often, then perhaps you need to reflect on what the common denominator in those games is. You.
Those of us who say we escspe a fair amount aren't lying.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794673#Comment_3794673
Sure. So what do survivors feel? These are the people who make up the lion’s share of consumers, no?
That a 50% escape rate is fair. I just said that.
And no, survivors don't make up the lions share of consumers, unless you're assuming all players only play one role.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794663#Comment_3794663
TBH it’s inconsequential what players feel. The people who program the game have identified it as such.
When we're talking about why players feel a certain way, I think what players feel is probably relevant.
Its probably also relevant to the people who want their consumer base to enjoy their product.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794629#Comment_3794629
Peanits said the kill rate and win rate are the same not long ago.
Only if you consider each game to be 4 1v1s and each survivor kill/escape a discrete result.
This might be how the game has to function behind the scenes, but players don't think this way. Survivors, even solo, still strive to rescue team mates, and don't generally consider it a "win" if they escape solo while their 3 teammates die. And killers don't look at a 2K and think "I won 50%", a 2K means the gates are open, which is a failure to secure your secondary objective, which is a loss. Killers don't count their wins by the number of survivors they kill in an evening, they count their wins by the number of games that result in a win. Games are treated as wholes, not a group of individual 1v1s.
The format of the game is built around an all-or-nothing goal. You can't win by just repairing some of the gens, you need to repair all 5 to escape, there are no half measures. So you can't peicemeal it into 4 1v1s when it comes to player experience and win perception.
The asymmetrical nature of the game also extends to the win condition of the game. The win condition is asymmetrical. For this reason an average win:loss for killer would actually be 62.5% (or 2.5K average), while for survivors it IS 50% (2 out average). This inconguence is one of the reasons why balance is so difficult and why the community can never come to any agreements, and why everyone feels the game is 'sided' against them. There's a 12.5% overlap in the middle where both sides perceive themselves to 'lose'. And this is also why the game becomes insufferable when it's too tightly balanced (strict MMR), because more people are squeezed into the middle where nobody is happy.
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Dropping pallets is a contextual action, so it helps to know the context. Two things that can be over looked:
You need to have the pallet in your field of view. You could be standing in the right place, but if the pallet isn't mostly visible in your screen, the prompt won't show up.
You can't drop a pallet if another player is already occupying the space under the pallet. This is why killers can bodyblock pallets, but it's also worth knowing that a killer who is in the process of lunging through the pallet can also occupy that space, in which case it's a matter of being too late in dropping the pallet in your part. This is the part that server latency can affect, but knowing that it's a possibility you can try to mitigate it by dropping pallets slightly earlier. It can take practice to learn the timing, and there's always the chance that latency is just too much to work with.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794279#Comment_3794279
I agree there should be balancing around hooks but we have an issue with the MMR system in that it's not an advancement mechanism; it's a mechanism to theoretically ensure you're adequately placed into a match. Emblems was an advancement mechanism that did encourage multiple hooks but it's only used for BP now.
That's why I think the focus has to be on overhauls to game mechanics if the MMR system is to be kept.
There is nothing in the player interface of the game that even hints that MMR even exists. And even what we know of MMR from knowledge circulating the community, paints it as a system you should just ignore.
Emblems still exist and contribute to your only tangible reward system; bloodpoints.
The focus is already there. It never left.
The problem is the community brain rot caused by a viral obsession over MMR.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
isn’t the general consensus still that noob mmr is killer sided and high mmr is survivor sided
In a very general sense yes, because survivor skill expression scales exponentionally when you factor in coordination.
Survivors have the capacity to improve much more as a group than killer as a single player can.
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Slugging mid game for pressure, while other survivors are still in play and therefore able to pick you up, is not the problem, or toxic. It's a legitimate pressure tactic for the killer, and the survivors have all the tools to deal with it as basekit.
Deleting all that pressure by reimbursing the survivors sunk time with gen progress is far too much. It's not much different to basekit Unbreakable that removed the pressure from slugging because no one needed to help you get up. Not to mention that further repair speed buffs will be stackable with existing repair speed buffs and lead gens popping even faster.
This is not the thing you want to be punishing killers for, as that just makes camping and tunneling even more desirable.
The only time slugging is a problem is if you're intentionally bleeding out survivors, or camping a slug for a 4K. In both cases, repair buffs aren't going to be relevant, because there won't be any further opportunity to make repairs.
The tools survivors need to combat slugging should be ones that help you get back on your feet when there's no other survivor to help you.
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So the screen is full of auras and every action you take gives you all the buffs and all the debuffs.
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But the whole point of side objectives is to slow the game down.
Considering that doing chests and totems can even give you repair buffs with perks/toolboxes, If everything you did contributed to repairs, they'd have to balance that by increasing gen times even more. 120 charges or something at least.
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@For_The_People said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793753#Comment_3793753
genuine question because I don’t play killer and don’t know the it nuances and intricacies from a killer perspective but, when you say it is harder now for killers than before, what makes it so?
Aren’t maps generally smaller compared to before? Aren’t certain perks that many agreed needed nerfs such as dead hard and mft nerfed? Aren’t gens longer co complete than before? CoH and medkit nerfed?
Like I said, genuine question - am asking not asserting.
I do know that gen regression perks have been nerfed. But is this the main thing counteracting all of the other things above? If not, what are the ultimate factors causing the game to be more difficult for killers than before?
Killer is objectively in the strongest place it's been since I started playing.
Maps are smaller, loops are weaker, base regression is better (5% instant regression and no gen tapping), base chase mechanics are better (multiple buffs to action durations), survivors have slower vaults, can't cheese instant blinds, and are generally more restrained in how 'broken' their abilities are. (With maybe one exception being the latest buff to flashbangs, I've been seeing more of those)
Average Kill rates used to sit at around 50%, now they're at 60%.
I'm not saying killer is OP, on the contrary I think killer is actually in the most balanced place it's ever been after years of the game being generally more survivor sided.
And yet despite this, killers still camp and tunnel.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793704#Comment_3793704
Gen defence perks "aren't necessary" because they've become obsolete. It's no longer the case, "I can win without gen defence because I'm just that good." 4 chase perks will serve you better than 4 gen perks. Maybe even 1 chase perk would be better than 4 gen perks. It definitely wasn't a crutch when it was a thing.
And this has always piqued my interest, that we demonize killers trying to win, calling them "desperate" or using sweaty as an insult against them, like that would fly in any other game. But I don't see survivors being interrogated for their priorities, which are the exact same. People want to win.
Tunneling is playing smart, with strategy, for the purpose of winning. Until there is a better alternative to tunneling, which I highly doubt these devs will ever consider, people are gonna keep doing it.
I play plenty of killer. Have done since 2019 so 5 years now.
I've never relied on gen regression perks. The most I've ever used is, Jolt, old Pain Res (which I stopped using after the info was taken away), or Call of Brine and Thrilling Tremors. Never all together, only one at a time.
I never intentionally tunnel or camp, because it's boring and I'm still in the mindset that 'more hooks = bigger win'. In fact I'm actively disappointed when a survivor dies on second/first hook because that's a hook I missed out out.
And yet I don't struggle to win games as killer. I'm still sitting around a 60-70% kill rate. Regardless of whether it's due to my skill or my opponents lack thereof, my MMR is clearly where it's supposed to be because I'm not artificially inflating my kill rates through crutch mechanics such as camping, tunneling, or stacking regression.
So I can't help but feel bewildered when killers, constantly, complain that "tunneling is necessary" or "regression is too weak".
MMR is a thing that exists, even if it's not perfect or consistent, it is on average in effect. It's purpose is not to be continuously inflated in order to boost your ego, it's purpose is to give you the matches you deserve. By trying too hard, you are making the game harder for yourself, that's why you "need" to camp/tunnel/stack regression.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793534#Comment_3793534
Thanks for commenting!
To be honest with the Scourge Hook, I added the Haste to make it even more random and because I was running out of status effects. The self-unhook part was kind of a last minute addition, but I may remove it later.
With Fakeout, I don't want it to be completely passive, but making it so it works like Freddy pallets (spawning at pre-determined spots) would maybe work better.
There may also be issues with different killer powers and their controls. So that's why I'd be wary of making it manual.
Have it light up in a different colour aura for the killer, that at least allows you to play around it, (like defending it in order to dupe survivors into thinking it's an important gen to finish) and that can make it less passive.