Scarlett1111
Scarlett1111
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@Haildamage93 said:
Well, that's where you're wrong. As I said in this thread I am enjoying it. I don't expect to win every game, and I understand that when I get camped or slugged my team will just have to escape without me. Queue up again for the next match. The difficulty of survivor is where the fun is. Trying to outplay a killer who is tunneling or slugging is very difficult, but man, nothing in this game beats the feeling where you are able to make a killer regret tunneling/camping.
Where are you getting these numbers from? You keep referencing "the numbers" in this thread claiming BHVR lost 30%of it's player base. Based on previous posts you've made, I'm inclined to believe that you are just making these numbers up in an attempt to make a point.
Simply the queue times? That happens every killer release because people want to try the new killer.
Steam player numbers, Thursday had 115k, last night at the same exact time I checked of 7PM EST, there was only 70k on, that is a 30% loss. Which is peak time for central and eastern NA.
And that's where you're wrong, because the majority does not want to try their ass off to just play the game. They want to have fun and not act like their literal life is on the line sweating every single match. DBD is not a competitive game, there is no place for people trying that hard in publics. Actively making the game unenjoyable for 4 people; which is exactly what survivor players deal with every single time they load into a game, is what killers have been doing with their "legit" tactics. If BHVR took even a second to realize the majority of the community is not the top 1% sweatlords, and just want to have fun, then we wouldn't even be having this conversion to begin with. -
@killer998 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954569#Comment_3954569
like what was said, that doesn’t show much, given your input on the conversation who can be blamed for thinking you’re a salty survivor main?
Your contribution to the OPs post was nothing but an attack on killers players and the devs whilst showing a victim complex of the game not helping survivor players.
The maps were made smaller to help low mobility killers yes, some of the maps were simply too big. Red forest? You’d have games where you never even saw the killer. I’d just be on the gen either chatting away to my friends while one is being chased or bored holding the repair button. Not to mention it enforced camping for low mobility killers as well since they knew they’d never be able to pressure the map so tried to force survivors to come to them by camping.
The whole excitement of survivor gameplay is not sitting on a generator, it’s being chased. Sitting on a generator, while it can be relaxing just chilling, is boring. Smaller maps mean more intense matches, more killer pressure and the survivors need to put in more work to survive.
Strong loopers don’t really feel map changes anyway. Sometimes the tiles and loop spawns mean you can still solidly loop the killer for a long time if they don’t even change target. Like a shack spawn into a jungle gym etc.
Big maps enforced camping. While camping is still a problem, it is less of one since the maps were made smaller. It’s a step in the right direction for the health of the game.Survivor players have been being ignored and abused for years and BHVR doesn't care and hasn't cared. Nothing has been done and the queue times show. Games are ending in less than 5 minutes for the vast majority of the playerbase and part of that is because the maps are so tiny now killers don't have to think before they are on top of a person. There is nothing "intense" about being tunneled and camped the entire game because a killer player decided you were their target. I have spawned in the killers terror radius more times than I can count now, I have been hit less than a minute into the game. All of that is because the awful map decision of making everything smaller.
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@Haildamage93 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954361#Comment_3954361
I didn't say don't play the game. I said don't play the event. Two completely different things. I didn't say people can't have a different opinion either. In fact you're the one acting like I'm some villian for enjoying the event and quite literally telling me not to comment. You should really check your passive agressive, sarcastic attitude at the door.
That's the problem. The game is awful in its current state. Absolutely miserable. There are no survivor players enjoying the game. Which is blatantly obvious when you look at player dropoff and queue times for killers.
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@DarKStaR350z said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954402#Comment_3954402
But they don’t make say headshots easier to hit with Widow for example because average players can’t reliably hit them, because as you get better you can hit more of those shots and it would make the gameplay super oppressive at higher skill levels. People can always improve no matter how much or little you play.
You can’t buff killers because average players get looped too long because they can get better, you can’t balance around teammates not doing anything because at higher ranks they will, you can’t add extra pallets because survivors don’t know how to use loops because better players will be able to use them too effectively.
Games aren't balanced exclusively around the top 1%. They are balanced around the majority. You can read any of Riots patch notes for any of their games and they explain it there, or any of the hundreds of hours of them talking about why balancing for everyone is the best solution. Overwatch does the exact same thing, the game is balanced for the majority. Something BHVR doesn't do. They balance almost exclusively for the top 1%, that's why there are barely any changes to solo queue when that is the vast majority of players. Killers don't get nerfed in their base ways, they get their high end brought down.
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@killer998 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954511#Comment_3954511
Calm down survivor main.
I'm sorry? What am I again? Because my stats for the last 30 days tell a different story.
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@CruelLimits1982 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954546#Comment_3954546
We're talking about things that are necessary vs unnecessary that isn't necessary whats up with this rules for me but not for thee mentality? Just leave why do I have to push YOU out and watch YOU teabag? Ok if you're slugged on the floor get up/alt tab and go do something else then
No, actually. That's not how it works whatsoever. You need 4 survivors to live out your ENTIRE game that gets "ruined" less than 10% of the time. Slugging is never necessary. Tunneling is never necessary. That is the demand for free wins, which no one deserves. All killer mains need to realize they are being coddled by the devs and have been for multiple years now. Your role is disgustingly overpowered and you barely need to be looking at the screen to play it. Don't forget you have the ability to quite literally kill them, on any killer, just to salt the wound that much more. So why is it okay for killers to be toxic and have the ability to kill the survivors directly, when that's not their job, its to sacrifice them. But survivors aren't allowed to gloat that they won their rare game because crazy concept, the game is balanced in the killers favor, survivors escape less than half the time as intended by the devs, and that scenario you just mentioned barely. happens.
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@CruelLimits1982 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954387#Comment_3954387
Its also not necessary for survivors to stand at the exit gate till EGC finishes im not trying to turn this into Us Vs Them but I hope if they find a solution to the slugging for 4k situation they do the same for what I just mentioned
It is your job as the killer to push them out or kill them then. Why are you sitting there letting them elongate a game? Killers always control the state of the game.
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@spagz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954522#Comment_3954522
I get where you’re coming from. Survivors constantly get nerfed and told they're entitled just for wanting fair matches, while killers tunnel and slug solos at 5 gens and still act like the victims. That narrative gets used to ignore legit survivor feedback, and yeah, it’s exhausting.
But not every killer is sweaty, just like not every survivor is a cracked SWF. A lot of people on both sides are casual and just want to have fun. The game leans killer-sided, especially against solos, but that doesn’t mean every killer is some high-skill monster.
The real issue is the game itself. Events like this one feel punishing, feedback from us gets ignored, and survivors are left dealing with burnout. But pointing fingers at each other won’t fix it. Survivors and killers should both be calling out the systems and use their voice so that the devs do listen. Yes, there are toxic killers and survivors though.
If BHVR wants this game to survive, they need to start listening to both sides and stop treating survivor feedback like background noise.
I am very aware its the game itself, and I don't disagree in the slightest, but unless they come out with anti-tunnel and anti-slugging measures next month with the release of the next 2v8 iteration, I genuinely don't see the game lasting to 2026. The last time survivors on their own was strong was 3 years ago. The last time survivors got real content, not a new skin for the same exact thing, was what, when hatch was changed to spawn when there was only one survivor left? Yet there have been 2 killers released just this YEAR. Entire new playstyles and things that are done differently, killer "mains" get new ways to play the game all the time, survivors get new skins. There is a severe issue with the game when everyone I have personally asked say 2v8 feels like a better DBD and that they just don't play survivor when its not around.
And while in a perfect world that would work, you can look for yourself on the killer mains subreddit, they want nothing to do with survivor enjoyment, a post that was made since the anniversary is saying they will hard tunnel everyone who doesn't bring a cake, sitting at over 300 upvotes on a subreddit that only has . When they are well aware cake drop rates for survivors is abysmal. Or just looking at any post about tunneling having a multitude of comments saying "It's a legit strat, git gud", or even the plethora of killer players complaining that survivors are "gen-rushing". Whenever survivor enjoyment is brought up every single time they go "Oh but you're allowed to bring 3 friends and bully" exactly what I said before, and knowing BHVR and their constant catering to killer players to keep them happen (when they are the minority) we will probably see nerfs to survivor soon too. -
@spagz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954477#Comment_3954477
Yeah of course! I can go on about the event and the remote hooking, same old event every year, etc. but I’ll tell you why I think they ignore us. Which could also be some things you feel need change that have been ignored, I’m not sure. I feel like BHVR keeps ignoring a lot of the issues us survivors (even some killers) have been bringing up for years. Things like tunneling, camping, and how miserable solo queue can be just don’t seem to get the attention they deserve. Survivors have been asking for real solutions or systems to help with these problems, but BHVR either brushes them off or gives band-aid fixes that don’t really solve anything long-term.
At the same time, killers keep getting perks that feel super oppressive to play against. Stuff like Scourge: Pain Resonance gives free gen regression, Deadlock stalls progress constantly, and Nowhere to Hide or Ultimate Weapon basically remove stealth or safe plays altogether. Add Call of Brine, Overcharge, and NOED on top, and it starts to feel like survivors are punished just for trying to play the game normally.
Solo queue is a huge part of the problem too. There's no way to coordinate, no team info, and if one teammate messes up or gives up, it’s basically over. Survivors end up getting the short end of the stick, while BHVR doesn’t seem to prioritize making solo play more viable or balanced.
That said, I get the killer side too—playing against really strong SWFs or top-tier survivors can be rough, and it’s not like killers have it easy every match. But the bigger issue to me is just how often survivor feedback gets ignored or downplayed, even when it’s about core parts of the game that clearly need attention.
But the killers do have it easy nearly every match. This false narrative that every game is against sweats is built on lies and barely happens. Majority of killer games are against solo queue players. Killer mains just think they are deserving of winning every single game no matter what they do. Its being entitled, exactly what killer mains have been saying about survivors wanting literally anything that makes the game more enjoyable. But instead we get whatever the hell this event is, forcing survivors to stay in games (that they on average are forced to lose anyway), and half baked afk crows that needed over a week to fix because they didn't take any feedback from the PTB.
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Yeah, just another change in their arsenal to baby killers so they never have to actually think.
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Lets be completely real, you get significantly less BP playing survivor anyway. Shutting your brain off and 8 hooking as any killer gets you an easy 250k-300k per match. Meanwhile 90% of survivor games are with a tunneling or tryharding piece of work so you have no chance to begin with. A full survivor game nets less than 150k on average, there is just no reason to play this role whatsoever, the game are miserable, AND you don't get rewarded for it.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
I don’t really like the event on either side, it I will agree that it feels a bit too killer-sided. I just do my event achievements and then go back to normal mode.
I get that certain people are frustrated about the event or the game in general, but at the same time, BHVR must being doing something right because the game is still hitting 100K+ player count peaks on Steam in the past few days. There are obviously plenty of survivor players who are enjoying it enough to keep up those numbers.But that's exactly it, is there aren't enough survivor players, killer queue times are up at almost 10 minutes at every point of the day. We're seeing 30% drop in players on a weekend compared to when the event launched on Thursday, and killer queue times prove it. What's insane is how BHVR aren't capitalizing on the immense interest people have in the game. On youtube and twitch and tiktok the game is bringing in hundreds of thousands of views, yet those people aren't playing the game. You can basically not play with your friends without being a killer mains punching bag. There are so many games out currently, better games, better live service games that are releasing new and fun things constantly. A new survivor is 3 new perks, a new killer is an entire new character into the game that killer players get to experience because it is directly different from what we have in game currently. Where is the gameplay changes for survivors? Why is the system exactly the same all these years later when obviously its gotten stale years ago.
I can't see how BHVR is doing anything correct except profiting off licenses that they frankly don't deserve with how they treat the majority of players.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953785#Comment_3953785
Then don't play competitive multiplayer games. Or lose your way into an MMR where everyone just wants to goof off and paint rainbows.
It also doesn't help that survivors will absolutely take any and every chance they can to rub every loss in your face. So even if I'm feeling good about a loss, it all ends when I get a dance party in the exit gates and bm in the EGC. I'm sure survivors go through something similar.
Where in that comment did I say I am not competitive? I have been playing competitive games for over half my life with video games for 80% of it. I actively play some along with dbd. DBD is not a competitive game, its a horror themed party game. The game just isn't fun, that's why we keep having posts about tunneling and how unfun the game is, on every single forum the game has, reddit, dbdrage, this forum, twitter, youtube, steam, anywhere people are talking about the game there is talks about how unfun the game is from survivors, about people quitting the game constantly with proof.
You act like every single game a survivor wins they immediately trash talk, which is just not true? The vast majority of my games have either no messages in egc, or the only thing that is said is gg. And I can contest that that is the majority of players experience, its not a common occurrence. -
@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953779#Comment_3953779
Lol. I'm sorry, this isn't Barney and Friends. People like to win. Gamers, especially. That's why they complain when they lose.
No, the vast majority of people do not do that. They go "that game was fun, lets play another" or they go "that game wasn't fun, I don't want to play anymore". People want to have fun, which can come from a plethora of reasons, someone does something cool, you goof off with friends, someone does something funny, etc etc etc; all of those things can happen and they can still lose, but because they HAD FUN, that is what matters. This isn't real life, you don't have to "win" every single time, have you ever heard of a good loss? Because I have. In my years of playing actual competitive games I have spoken with thousands of people who go "I might have lost, but I had fun and learned something, so I don't feel I wasted my time".
The exact same thing can be said for the other side, sometimes its just a slog and you don't enjoy it whatsoever, but you win by the games terms. That is directly what drives addiction, continuing to do something to try to grasp at the enjoyment you felt at some point, even if you hate it, even if you never actually do get to enjoy it for any reason. Any number of reasons can make a game a bad one, and can lead to a bad win that makes you feel worse. Play against a character you dislike, play on a map you dislike, play with people who are rude. etc etc etc. That's why people will say "Glad that ones over" they aren't "happy" they won, they are relieved they don't have to suffer through it anymore.
Obviously enjoyment is subjective, but if you only play a game for the endscreen you are not correctly playing a game. You should be spending nearly all of your time enjoying your time doing it, the world can suck, that's why games are an escape for a lot of people, that's why they want to have fun before anything else. -
@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953768#Comment_3953768
"if you aren't hyper competitive"
Nobody plays to lose. Nobody. Everyone likes to win. Winning gives us that nice little hit of dopamine.
No actually most people play to have fun. No matter if they win or lose.
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@UnicornMedal said:
These topics are always interesting to watch because they only reinforce how asymmetrical horror as a genre just doesn't work.
Really the core of the argument is that one side can accept losing more often than not as long as their time is valued. Meaning that anti-tunnel wouldn't need to outright delete tunneling, it would just have to limit its potential so that individual players could have more time in the trial. While there are a handful of ways to do that that could all be successful, the immediate concern is that the other side would not win often enough. To me, that reads more as entitlement but that's neither here nor there.
Ideally, the end goal for an asymmetrical game should be equity. Both sides are very different and come into the game with different strengths and weaknesses, but ultimately they should meet somewhere in the middle. Yet every time a game strives for that, it's not good enough. Barring BHVR's own issues, could DBD realistically thrive when fairness is such a dirty word?
The answer directly is no, asymmetrical games should never be able to thrive, and there is a good chance without the addition of Michael Myers early on the game would have gone the same way as every other of its kind. It's pretty obvious the game is riding extremely heavily on licensed content and pulling people in because their favorite character is in the game. The game has a horrendous retention problem because of how difficult it is to play with your friends, and because once you reach a certain point the game is just not fun anymore from any side if you aren't hyper competitive. But in reality games like this can never be truly competitive, the competitive scene has such a high amount of things banned that you basically can't even consider it the same game at that point.
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@Haildamage93 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953709#Comment_3953709
"The average hours of people in my games has been over 1k"
Another bold faced lie lol. You have a habit of asking each survivor after a match how long they've played the game? No? Just making something up again trying to prove a point. Just stop lying. I'll give you that on the play time, so tell me, how many hours do you have playing killer?
The reason those killers aren't enjoyable is because of how incredibly weak they are. M1 killers are notoriously weak, and the power discrepancy between high tier killers and low tier killers is at an all time high. But killer is so easy, it plays itself right? Surely you could just do it to prove yourself right…
You.. do realize you can see someone's time played, correct? It shows it right there on the steam profile. The average time of the people I have been facing of the steam profiles I check (which is all of them cause I'm nosy).
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The average hours of people in my games has been over 1k, not to mention the stats on BHVRs end are known to be wrong, they have admitted themselves they aren't portraying the correct time played. And no, I will not play those killers, because I don't find them enjoyable, that's the entire point of the game is to have fun.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952777#Comment_3952777
How many games are you playing, on average?
15-20 games a day. I have over 100 hours over the past 2 weeks on steam alone. The vast majority of them before the anniversary was with leavers.
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@XtremeDBD_YT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953677#Comment_3953677
I think the 2v8 stage reduction machanic can be put into the main game.
@Shroompy its definitely a noticeable problem as of the 9.0.0 update. Its a huge topic rn since killrates on all killers have dropped by around 10%, which is not good
Where did BHVR say killrates have dropped? Because last time I checked they have released absolutely nothing. Are you going off nightlight? A site that is known to be completely wrong in almost every sense?
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@Haildamage93 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953628#Comment_3953628
Not going to lie, I simply do not believe your claims here. Let's see your stats. Pics or it didn't happen.
Legion I was farming the event with, as blatantly shown by the amount of hooks and BP earned.
And here are my most recent games along with my kill rate. The bill from the 4th game killed himself on hook almost immediately, every escape was because I gave them hatch.
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@Haildamage93 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953145#Comment_3953145
Posts like this, where you pretend like there can't possibly be any strategic play to being killer, discredits anything you say. You act like the killer role plays itself. I don't like tunneling or camping either, but I'm not delusional and saying there is no scenario where it makes strategic sense to do it. I play both roles btw. I don't understand why people have this us vs them mentality in this game. "I play the skilled role, and the other role is unskilled easy wins". It's okay that you don't view this as a competitive game, that doesn't mean others can't.
The killer role does play itself. Yet again, I have almost exclusively been playing the role for nearly 2 weeks now (played 50/50 before then) and have only "lost" games when I have purposefully let them escape. 100% of my games are hard stops at 5 gens no matter the killer, I consistently get 10-12 hooks a game with all people alive until the end. I have never once tunneled or slugged and still have a near 80% kill rate on every killer I play. The "role" is a joke, it does entirely play itself, which is exactly why survivors have such an awful time. Why the escape rates are getting lower and lower. You have to actually try to play Survivor in this game meanwhile killers can just do whatever the hell they want the entire game. Survivors have to deal with 3 completely random variables when the killer doesn't, Survivors have to know how to loop correctly, know every single power of every killer, know every add-on of every killer, know every killer perk, know where generator spawns are so they don't 3gen themselves (if they make it to that point, which they most likely wont), when safe unhook times are, on top of having to trust in their RANDOM teammates to be able to do the exact same thing. This is and will always be an "us vs them" because one side is coddled and babied when the other side has to play nearly perfectly every single time or they will be miserable.
Just rename the entire survivor role to punching bag at this point, not like its anything different. -
@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953145#Comment_3953145
ah, you one of those people who think that if a pvp game isnt esports its automatically the most casual thing to ever exist and competitive terminology cant possibly apply to it.
im sorry for speaking with smart words expecting you to understand the breakdown of fundamental parts of the pvp elements of the game that do in fact make it fun.
No. i don’t immediately think that. Very telling you are accusing me of the exact thing you are doing. DBD has always been a for fun game. Remember when getting 0k had a message that demoralized killers so badly they had to change it? Because I do. There has never been a true competitive mode in the game because its unsustainable. You are acting like just because its PvP its competitive, Fall Guys is PVP yet thats a casual game, Among Us is PVP and thats also a casual game. You still never once explained what macro was, you just threw the term around randomly. Is macro sitting on your 3 gen because its an easier win? Is macro using your power to down someone? I’ve played league of legends for years and understand what macro actually is, and how it doesn’t just randomly apply to things just because you used the word.
I’m not even going to get started on how you blanketly state that those exact elements make the game fun, because fun is subjective. You have no idea what every single player finds fun.
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@Hexbadboy23 said:
- Killer isn’t easy by default – While some killers (Nurse, Blight) are strong when mastered, most require multitasking, game sense, and strategy. It’s not a braindead role.
- MMR is inconsistent – Matchmaking often puts killers against sweaty SWFs or weak solo queue survivors. Not every game is “equal skill.”
- Kill rates above 60% ≠ balance – Low survivor escape rates show the game leans killer-sided, even when survivors play well or use meta perks.
- Techs like Oni flicks and Blight hug tech aren’t exploits – They’re high-skill mechanics that add depth and challenge. Calling them “exploits” ignores the skill expression behind them.
- Killers don’t fully control the match – Survivors have gen pressure, map rotation, healing, and body-blocking to fight back. It’s not just “killer dictates everything.”
- Tunneling and camping are lazy but effective – Killers can win without it, but tunneling is easier and faster. That doesn’t mean it’s needed—it just skips skill expression.
- Survivor coordination is rare in solo queue – Most survivor games aren’t full comms teams. SWFs are strong, but they’re the minority in most lobbies.
- Survivor meta perks are defensive, not overpowering – Dead Hard, Adrenaline, etc., help survivors survive, not dominate. They exist to compensate for killer pressure.
- Killer builds are just as strong or stronger – Killers have extremely oppressive builds (No Way Out, Eruption, Ultimate Weapon) that dominate solo queue with little counterplay.
- The real issue is design, not skill – Many killers rely on tunneling or slugging because the game rewards it too easily. The devs need to shift rewards toward fairer, more skillful play.
They are completely exploits, an exploit is something that is abused and not intended, you are meant to stop when both Wesker and blight hit walls, Oni is suppose to have a max cap of 90 degree turning. You can try to construe it and which way, and I never once say they are no skill. But they are most definitely exploits.
You named 2 killers that you can’t just pickup and get 4ks brainlessly meanwhile Ghoul has existed for months and dominates at every level no matter the skill level of the killer. The amount of “skill” required to play most killer is significantly lower than the skill needed to play survivor effectively and not be a walking bloodbag.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953118#Comment_3953118
No I dont act like that but keep putting words in my mouth.
See, this is the problem with people like you, you are substituting concepts and acting like asking to have agency is the same as asking for free wins.
Notice how I talk about both edge cases, I dont find neither unloseable games vs bad survivors nor unwinnable games vs good survivors to be a healthy thing, but you're kinda too self absorbed in your "entitled killers" narrative to realize that.
if you dont find any of these things “healthy” you are not playing the correct game. Dbd is a horror themed party game not the up and coming competitive masterclass with millions of dollars in it. It never will be. You constantly throw around the word “macro” which means practically nothing in a game that is so one dimensional, what macro other than killer powers even exist? Because it doesn’t, patrolling gens isn’t macro, tunneling isn’t macro, slugging isn’t macro. Using terms from much more complex games to confuse isn’t a good strategy to get people on your side about gaslighting devs? Apparently? And yes I do directly call out how you blatantly talk about “playing against better players” because its a rare occurrence. Not something that is happening every game, which is exactly what your incredibly confusing comments portray.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953096#Comment_3953096
I always noticed how people like you make up this collective gaslighting voice that genuinely makes the killer role into exactly what you describe it - low effort high reward.
>claim playing macro takes zero skill and is low effort
>claim that the only acceptable skill expression on killer is playing chase>gaslight developers into removing macro skill expression from killers
>because instead of adding viable strategies they just remove and limit them as any macro = bad unhealthy low effort high reward
>compensate with another equivalent of a slowdown perk basekit because killers do need more time to chase
>act surprised that killer takes even less skill to win vs bad survivors because the game plays itself even more
>blame killers for acting entitled when they rightfully call out how it's even less fun or realistic to try to win versus good survivors because they can do even less
You either dont understand or choose to ignore that this game is not winnable with pure chase pressure anytime the chases are not 2 taps under 30 seconds. The game does not work like this, when it does, it's rigged against survivors. Look at blight/nurse gameplay with 3-4 slowdown perks.
I cant wait how next developer update reveals the new anti systems and with 99% another nerf to generator speeds / buff to slowdown perks that would make stomping bad survivors even easier and take even less effort and which would make killers have even less skill expression.
I wonder if it really is what people want the killer to be - low effort sealclubbing at the price of hopelessly losing once in a while or they just dont understand it.
Killer is inherently made to be extremely easy. There is no arguing that whatsoever. You act like every single game is against the 4 best players in the world, when it just isn't. You are on average playing against people of the same skill level, or lower. Every game the average player is the majority. If every game was as you say so survivor sided then the escape rates would be 80% or higher, but it isn't. You are on average playing against "good" players 1/10 games, you aren't playing against comp wannabes bullying you out of the game every single match. And you keep saying "macro" you mean, literal exploits? Oni 180s are an exploit the devs have kept in the game because last time they removed it there was so much backlash that entire side of the community would have imploded, the same thing as "hug" techs, both exploits, it sounds more like the devs are scared of killer players when they try to remove blatantly unfair mechanics they get met with heavy criticism because "its been in the game all this time you can't just patch it!11!!" And you say when the game is 2 taps under 30 seconds its weighted to survivors, its not? Whatsoever? If the chases are ending after 30 seconds every single time, like they do with nurse and blight, then its entirely killer sided. Killer gets map pressure, killer gets free time to do whatever the hell they want. A killer always dictates the game.
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@Hexbadboy23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953096#Comment_3953096
- ‘’Tunneling Means You’re a Bad Killer”
Not necessarily. A skilled killer may tunnel as a tactical decision, not out of desperation or lack of skill. For example, if a survivor is on death hook and the gens are nearly done, it’s not unreasonable to prioritize removing them. That’s strategy, not a lack of skill. - “Killers Are Entitled”
This paints with too broad a brush. Most killer players don’t expect a 4k every game—they just want a fair match. When you face strong SWFs with full meta perks, it can feel suffocating on the other end too. The entitlement argument cuts both ways. - “You Don’t Need to Play Killer to Know It’s OP”
You don’t need to be a killer main to comment on balance, but first-hand experience matters. There are many pain points for killers that survivors just don’t see—gen speed, boons, flashlight saves, body blocking, or SWF coordination. Without playing both sides deeply, it’s easy to underestimate the difficulty of killer gameplay. - “Every Killer Wins Most Matches”
That’s just not true across all skill levels and MMRs. Some killers require good pathing, power timing, and perk synergy to win. A low-skill player using Hag or Trickster won’t win consistently against decent survivors. And not everyone is a Blight main with 2,000 hours.
1. If you are putting someone on death hook early into a game you are tunneling them to get a 3v1, that is a cheap strategy and abusing that for an easy win is incredibly unfair in every way. Obviously you went after the person directly off hook, when they were already weak.
2. 90% of games are against solo queue or non-bully squad swfs, you do not need to actively try every single game to make it as miserable as possible for the enemy team because they simply exist or want to play the game with their friends.
3. I do play killer, and its disgustingly OP, I'm not a good player, fairly below average, yet I can get consistent 4ks and winstreaks without even listening to the game, never going to hooks until people are healed, or slugging.
4. The majority of killers do win their games, a 2k is a win.
- ‘’Tunneling Means You’re a Bad Killer”
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To preface, I played 50/50 survivor and killer before swapping almost exclusively to killer recently.
Your first two paragraphs are reasonable, and it shows a bigger problem with the game overall which is how big the difference between high tier and low tier killers are.
Your third paragraph is where everything falls apart though, these killers don't "need" to tunnel to have a chance. Seeing the game itself treats a 2k as a win in the endgame screen. Gen rushing isn't a thing, survivors playing the game against a killer isn't a "strat" its them.. playing the game, exactly as intended.
If you are at 2 gens remaining with 0 kills you either have quite a few hooks, are playing for endgame (some of the strongest builds in the game), or are not playing the game at all. A full gen takes 90 seconds with one survivor on it, meaning in that scenario specifically the killer has both, spent too long on a chase and did not attempt to patrol the map checking gens. If that is such a problem for gens going fast, then gen regression perks exist for that exact reason, to elongate the game, you can see what tools survivors are going to bring, and if you really want to win that badly, you should be adjusting your build to counter them. And yet again, gen rushing doesn't exist.
90% of games are against people either not trying to exclusively win, or are solo queue and have no idea what other people are running, on average you should expect every person to run at least one anti-tunneling perk (so they get to play the game for longer), and one haste perk. Meaning you have at most 8 perks to worry about for exclusively them doing gens with, which is even lower chances if you see someone bringing a flashlight, you can expect them with good chance they are running a perk that synergizes with it. Yet again you should be planning accordingly if you want to win. So normally you can cut this down to about 5-6 individual perks. Which most of the time they will be either useless, for a challenge, or overlap. Acting like every single game you play the survivors all have complete comms and know each others perks is insane, I have played hundreds of games where I look at my teammate setting up a wiretap and having to mentally note that.
"Anti-tunnel" perks are not anti-tunnel at all, they are delaying the inevitable perks, killers don't care if they get DSd, 4 seconds of running unless you have a haste perk ready is not a lot of distance, if a killer wants a kill, they will get the kill. And these perks are completely useless if you don't get tunneled in most scenarios; have DS when you get off hook but the killer is in a chase? You have lost it now unless you want to risk being actually tunneled for trying to get use out of your perk. This ties back into what I just said about survivors taking useless perks, in most matches the DS, OTR, or any other anti-tunnel perk is completely useless, because you aren't always the one taking the tunnel. What does buying your 2 remaining teammates 30 extra seconds of a chase if you are at 3 gens left? Absolutely nothing.Imagine bringing a hex build to a game and 75% of the time you lose all of your totems at the start of the match, that's what its like to play survivor currently. 2 of your perks are there just to play the game because of the killer existing, and your other 2 perks could be completely useless depending on a multitude of scenarios. Did you bring blast mine and wiretap but never get to touch a gen? Useless perks. Did you bring head-on with quick and quiet, but the killer never once came near a locker during a chase because you played solo without friends? Useless perks. Tunneling is a cheap tactic to win games easily, its exactly why killer players can consistently get hundreds into the thousands of game winstreaks, because they can use cheap tactics like tunneling to do it. There is another thread here that states it perfectly, if tunneling is the "only" way to win games, then its a bad mechanic. You shouldn't be winning every game, no one deserves to win every game, yet people still are.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953053#Comment_3953053
They aren't working to "fix" them, and we don't even know what they are doing yet. They are working to deter them. There is a difference.
You can down vote me all you want - the only correct statement is mine, and you know it, bud.
Good one! Except I have one account, and it seems that multiple people are downvoting you, so your statement can't be all that popular, or correct for that matter.
And you can try to say they are only trying to "deter" these things. Because obviously the multitude of perks in the game that are "anti-tunneling" are doing so much to "deter" the problem from existing that we have posts on every single forum for the game, and that yet again, they are actively working on a fix for it.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953003#Comment_3953003
It is a legitimate strategy though. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it less legitimate.
Legitimate Strategies don't have the devs working on exclusive fixes to them. Yet again.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
with all the complaints about people “not having fun”, you would think nobody is playing the game anymore. Yet somehow it just hit an all-time high player count. Super weird…
The game has had over 60m sales. Yet only has a peak player count of 100k. That is telling in of itself. The game is fundamentally not fun from the side that it needs to be. Killer mains will never go play anything else because there is only one game that you can bully 4 individual people ad nauseum. Meanwhile survivor players and their friends they would want to play this game will have hundreds if not thousands of games that will both respect their time, and they will have fun playing.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952992#Comment_3952992
The amount of air quotes in this post becomes more amusing when you realize I haven't typed a single one of those words. I honestly think you might have selected the wrong post.
Nope, I responded to the correct post. Because what you responded to was a response about survivors genrushing.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952992#Comment_3952992
Let me post this quote… AGAIN.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DPJTFXRS2BDR/image.png
If its not a reportable offence, it cant be punished…
Just because something isn't bannable doesn't make it a "legit strat", because yet again, if it was a "legit strategy" they wouldn't be **ACTIVELY CHANGING IT**.
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I have almost exclusively played killer outside of a very few amount of games over the past week and it has been absolutely miserable. Games so unbelievably easy I don't even have the game sound on anymore, I just listen to youtube or music. 4Ks at 4-5 gens after hooking 9-12 times, 20 game winstreaks without even trying, I specifically went out of my way to stop even killing survivors because the games have been so easy, just letting them all escape after 8 hooking. Didn't even tunnel a single time (did have a few people kill themselves on hook though). Playing multiple killers. The game is extremely easy, killers are basically handed games on a silver platter.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/449514/tunneling-killers
Here we go again…
Tunneling is NOT an offence. While its annoying, it is a legit strategy.
You cant punish something that is not an offence.
If it was a "legit strategy" it wouldn't be being looked into to be changed, it wouldn't be the reason hundreds to thousands of people quit the game as their complaints of it fell on deaf ears. "Legit strategies" have counters that be accessed any time during the game, tunneling is not something that can be countered any time in the game, you HAVE to bring perks before the game even begins to counter it. "Just play better" there is no playing better when a killer wants you dead. They will forgo bodyblocking, and everything a team does to stop them, but it doesn't matter all it does it prolong the inevitable. Killers innately have the tools to tunnel and make the game easier and in turn purposefully make the game less enjoyable for survivors.
@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952863#Comment_3952863
Its not so much the amount of people who make these types of claims for either side, its the fact they might honestly believe that their experience is the only experience.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952966#Comment_3952966
DBD is an elimination game. The killer eliminates survivors to complete their objective. The survivors eliminate gens to complete their objective. Apples and Oranges are both fruit.
Genrushing doesn't exist and it never has existed. Survivors playing the game is not "genrushing" just because they aren't all actively trying to flashlight save every down, or sabotage every hook doesn't mean they are "genrushing" they are completing the objective of getting blood points. Tunneling someone is not "completing" anything for the killer, it actively hurts them because it gives them less BP, the shorter a game is the less you receive. Which last time I checked the only "reward" you get in DBD is BP, no ranks, no visible MMR, you get BP.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
How often are you seeing DC’s in your matches? Your have a valid point if DC’s occur in like 50% of matches, but in my experience it’s not even close to that. Especially now with the harsher DC penalties.
I’m a very mediocre solo queue survivor player and I manage to escape around 40% of the time according to my stats. I don’t believe the escape rate stats are wildly inflated.
80% of games there is at least one person DCing. I can sit there getting a 8 hooks and letting them all leave and someone will leave the game, I can be playing survivor and someone will leave as soon as they are on the ground for longer than 15 seconds, or left on hook for longer than 10 seconds. The vast majority of games have at least one person leaving before abandon is even given as an option.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I disagree…I have been having a lot of fun on survivor. Escaped out of 8 matches. Well…. would have been 8…Last match had a Dedicated Servers issue. I even forgot to bring a 4th perk and item on one of my matches xD
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"winning" and "fun" are not always the same thing, I escaped 3/4 games I played earlier, it doesn't mean any of them were fun whatsoever. They were slog fests of annoying killers and games back to back to back to back.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951995#Comment_3951995
To be fair, I made a similar comment a few days ago, and I ended up getting crows in one of my games after that comment. The killer was Knight, and I received crows after having multiple chases with his guards. Endgame builds can also be problematic with the AFK mechanic as well (looking at you, No Way Out).
I was one of the people who said it was half baked and didn't once receive crows until the night before the patch. Blight with No Way Out, I'm on death hook and he's patrolling exit gates, I completed 2 full gens from start to finish by myself that game and still got crows before I could open the exit gates which just gave me away and caused him to get another kill that was not even close to deserved. Glad the system has been changed, but I don't understand how it even went live to begin with.
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@HeroLives said:
just play killer instead, it’s so much less frustrating to play. I legit had to stop and switch roles because playing survivor has been AWFUL.
Said the same to my friends, we played 4 games all goofing off and having fun with silly builds, only to be met with killers that play like their life depends on it and they will win millions for winning the game. On top of the powers that are so killer sided its laughable. Overall an awful event, yet again another day of playing 4-5 survivor matches before having the most unenjoyable experience and swapping to killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/449342/why-are-killer-so-sweaty-in-event-mode
Ill go in and play some matches now, as killer.
Ill promise to let you go (and everyone else).
Honestly I don't even wanna be let to leave. Just 8 hook while we finish gens, get downs, let some people heal. The point of the game and mode in general is to have fun, there is no reason why people should be running around tunneling and slugging for 4ks every single game, especially when people aren't running meta builds and are just trying to goof off in a silly mode.
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Spent 1mil on Legion and got 27 cakes, same with Spirit. Sounds like rng being rng
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@CLHL said:
Unfortunately, that's how this game is played and it's not going to change because it's all about being efficient. And it's not just the killers, I got rushed so badly in my first few matches that I already decided to save all my cakes for another time.
It's not about "being efficient" you actively get punished with less BP for rushing games by tunneling and slugging. People just only care about the "win" and until BHVR does something about that nothing will change.
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@cheesentoast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951243#Comment_3951243
Not unlike a survivor player to either blatantly lie or just attempt to ragebait, I guess. I'm not sure what universe a consistent 50k average daily is "no players", but I assume you live in your own world anyway, oblivious to facts and going off "killer bad bad he tunnel me" (which is literally necessary to do anything on this game) Almost every single map is survivor sided, very few killers are even playable on every map. You disagree, and you're unfortunately just wrong
I have the same playtime on both killer and survivor, nothing I said was a lie, and yes actually, 50% player drop off after a week is absolutely atrocious! Tunneling is not even remotely close to being required, it is the path of least resistance, do I have to remind that this is a party game? There are hundreds of competitive games out there that people to need to win every single game can go play without bullying players out of the game constantly. Killers need to have maps they are bad on (average kill rate for every killer on every map is still 60%+ btw) that is how balance works, if every killer was good on every single map then you would get 4ks every game (what people are already doing anyway). Not to mention if tunneling was a "necessary" thing to do as you say, then BHVR wouldn't be actively changing it. Player enjoyment and satisfaction with the game is always more important than kill rates and escape rates. If people don't have fun, they quit. Survivors haven't been having fun for years. Being killed after playing the game for less than 5 minutes is never fun. Killers always get to play a full game out, survivors don't.
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@cogsturning said:
I agree with all of that and, yeah, things have been grim on survivor side lately. I'm a mid-ish survivor and I'm getting slugged about every five games, often with 0 to 1 gens done. I'm a worse killer and I get 4k against better significantly players. They need four times the amount of players picking survivor yet they make the killer experience easier and better. I get that the IP killers bring in the money but I think people will still play those killer even if it isn't a guaranteed 4k.
It's pretty much complete proof that this is the case. IP killers don't need to be 4k every game, Michael, Ghostface, Pyramid Head all have very decent playerbases that play them almost exclusively. They don't even spend a ton of money on the game, because their killers have almost no cosmetics. But instead of balance we get 2 killers back to back dominating lobbies that do the most annoying and unfun strats in the game and core game changes they go directly in the killers favor 100% of the time. Instead of fixing the reason Survivors would go next constantly (minimal killer/map bans, making solo queue more enjoyable, tunneling/slugging fixes) we get half baked AFK detection (that wasn't needed outside of fringe scenarios) and "Go Next Prevention" that was so well tested it caused hundreds of people to get warnings and penalties for being tunneled. On top of Springtrap not having any of his bugs fixed for over a week, all that work entirely in his favor, some even being completely gamebreaking, just shows how little the Survivor experience seems to matter to BHVR.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951154#Comment_3951154
The situation also matters. I expect people to engage with the game. It often comes down to me and one other person and I'm working on gens, being chased, cleansings hexes, and doing whatever else I can. Meanwhile, their HUD is totally inactive and, once I get finally downed, I immediately see their aura creeping around the basement. They've checked out long before I was downed. Instead of hiding, they could have been doing another gen and we might have had a shot. It's not behavior I like to reward. I spectate on a lot of people like this too. They're now just coming out long enough to touch a gen and avoid crows, then going back to hiding. Meanwhile, their teammate is actually playing the game.
And like I said, if I'm the killer, I'm not camping the hook, I'm roaming around. The other person has plenty of time to get to the hooked player and get somehwere to heal and re-engage with trying to do gens.
But I also know I'm not the average killer.
I agree the mechanics are an issue, but so are players. Killers choose to camp hooks and slugs, survivors chose to hide in the basement.
The chance you have to even escape is astronomically low at anything less than 3 survivors left, even at 3 survivors it is extremely low. They were entirely correct to stop interacting with the game and hiding to try to escape. 1 person is never going to be able to hold chase for the entire 2 minutes needed to finish just one gen + opening exist gates. Even swapping who does chase, the chances you make it out is so low you are better off not even trying. Is this solution fixable? Extremely, but does BHVR seem to care? Not at all.
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@cheesentoast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951232#Comment_3951232
"Strongest state ever" still being massively weaker than survivor says a lot. Also, not even true
That's why this game is losing players at a rate faster than literally anything else on the market? Killer queue times are at a bare minimum of 5 minutes at every time of day. No one is playing this game because of how disgustingly unfun the MAJORITY of the game is. killers are being fed on a silver platter, and then complain every single time they don't get a 4k that it was an SWF (which btw, it isn't, it never was and it never will be). Killers got 4 changes ALONE this patch that made them even stronger for absolutely no reason, they already are excelling with kill rate and survivors escape rates are already below what the devs want. Slugging and tunneling happen in half of all games. 50% of all players who even logged on during the release of the chapter have already left. But enjoy your queues as they go into the sky I guess?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
So what it is that is making this killer get 3-4k every game with 3-5 gens remaining? Am I so out of touch that I can't tell what's op at this point? Are survivors just not playing correctly rn? What do you guys have to say about it?
Bugs.
Springtrap has a lot of bugs and glitches that actively benefit the Killer or are actively detrimental to the Survivors. The Killer itself is fine, but these bugs singlehandedly make the Killer insanely frustrating to play against, especially when people go out of their way to use perk builds that exploits these bugs to gain an advantage.
Is the balance in the room with us now? Full map awareness off 2 add-ons? One of the fastest first hit to down speed in the game? Semi-truck sized projectile hitboxes? 2 Instadowns? He is disgustingly broken in every sense of it, his bugs make him by far the best killer in the game. Braindead easy, disgustingly broken, and BHVR doesn't care in the slightest or they wouldn't have ever allowed this to even go on for a single week.
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Sounds like its working exactly as intended then. They want people to think that the game is in a decent spot, even though its not even remotely close. Survivor games are found in seconds, with or without incentives, while killer queues are so long people are able to play entire different games in queue. You expect that kind of queue time from a competitive mode in a shooter, not a party game.
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Just had to sit there for a full 4 minutes after I was hit through a wall due to lag. Dude didn't even have the decency to put me on hook (I was death hook) that I crawled to in the first 3 seconds.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
I swear you guys only want to play against Ghoul or something
I would rather play 1000 games against Ghoul than a single game against Springtrap. Doesn't even matter how OP any of them are, Springtrap is absolutely miserable to play against. At least I know when I go against Ghoul I won't get perma camped and tunneled and actually have a chance to loop him instead of having to wait for Springtrap to hit me with his semi-truck sized axe that he slammed into my face.
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@IrisLP said:
They can't change the Plague's vomit for the same reason that there's no "anti-clown" mode for people who suffer from coulrophobia (and a likely remote anti-arachnophobia mode, if the rumors are true). If they made any of those changes, they'd start asking for the same thing for other game features.
As sad as it sounds, the reality is that if you don't see yourself capable of playing against something like this, then you have to either DC or simply not play the game. The options are there, unfortunately, and without sounding mean, you can't be thinking about the dislikes or phobias of each player.
Are there other games that have these mechanics? Yes, but they're generally single-player, or if it's in a group, it's not against a main character. That is, for example, the most common case: arachnophobia in Lethal, the spider is an enemy but not a main one and can be ignored. The Plague, The Clown, and if they made a spider enemy, they would be main characters. And adding an option to "not be drawn against a clown or plague" isn't possible because the queues for killers are long, and over time, people would ask (they already do) to have a mode that allows them to dodge certain lobbies, and due to the gameplay, that's not going to happen.
Besides, doing all that would cost the company money... Personally, I don't like clowns and I do DC every time I have to fight one. Fortunately, I almost never encounter clowns, lol, so my penalty doesn't increase.
If DBD is really striving to be a "competitive" game like how the devs are pushing it then they seriously need accessibility in place for these things. If not for the players, but for the watchability of it. Lots of PVP games have accessibility options that range from small aim assist to cod outright putting outlines on a enemy if you have the setting turned on for visibility reasons. There is no reason other than ableism that phobias cannot be contained in this game. Clown does absolutely nothing a typical clown would do, why is there any reason he needs to look like one too? Plague is very obviously Egyptian based and could have her entire kit be swapped to some sort of bug (locusts is thrown around a lot) and it wouldn't change anything from her design. The same way that maps do not need an obnoxious filter over them when it is known those are causes of headache flare-ups. On the same topic, obviously the "dark and ominous" setting isn't exclusively what they are going for now that there is a brightness filter in the game. Forcing someone to take a penalty because of something out of their control is absolute madness and shouldn't never exist in any game period.