Sava18
Sava18
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724668#Comment_3724668
You mistake the cause for the consequence. In your good soloQ games nobody quits precisely because they are good games, so there is no reason to quit. When survivors quit, it's usually because the game has a minuscule chance of a win, and therefore they decide it's not worth it staying here. The game is already bad and that causes survivors to quit as soon as they realize. And it might not be so obvious to you, and might seem as if the survivor let go with no reason, but that survivor just might have a better game sense, or seen something you didn't see, like auras of the other 2 teammates doing nothing, or one teammate staying AFK for a minute since the trial loaded, or he might have been sandbagged, or he was on a gen with the console Bill in green sweater who was missing skillchecks, and so on.
Outright wrong.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725697#Comment_3725697
So you are completely okay with the idea that DC penalty is only eaten by those who have legitimate reasons to quit? Because real quitters can just die and go next, without penalty.No I don't want hooks suicides to be in the game, that's what my first comment was.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724300#Comment_3724300
This is kinda why I think the forums are horribly biased, because I can't even state an opinion without being attacked for things I never said.
Since you only want to talk about the survivor side, then sure: I have a consistent opinion about that too.
There's nuance to giving up on hook, exactly like dropping from lobby. Sure, some people drop for bs reasons. Maybe they are getting burned out, got downed in 10 seconds, or maybe they didn't get their perfect map. Those things happen.
But there also times where, again, people have something come up IRL, or they're letting go to give the last survivor a chance at hatch. Maybe they're one of the players that has an actual visceral reaction to plague's power and hearing vomiting, or get motion sickness from clown's bottles (i.e. an actual accessibility reason).
So here's the thing: I don't know of a way the game can discern between these options. And so far, no one has said anything other than 'remove it completely' or 'give a DC penalty'. You've certainly given no answers yourself, and I don't know of any options that would only affect the bs reasons and not punish legit reasons as well. Because both of those options certainly impact legit reasons to drop.
That's not the case for lobby dodging. Removing prestige from the lobby hurts literally no one, unless you're specifically lobby dodging and are part of the problem. It doesn't hurt legit reasons to drop. Ever. And they tested it, but haven't done anything about it.
If it's legit reasons then they can eat the dc penalty. The penalty is very lax, if you have to give up to the point where you can't play because of legit reasons you really shouldn't be playing. If you have to dodge 3 times daily, I don't really seem how you can complain about the total of 20 min if even timer you get for it. It's absurd to think it's ok to freely ruin other people's game on whim in a pvp game.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/415050/blights-new-collision
Felt the same for me, before you had some tiles with weird collision where you bumped for no apparent reason, but now it is basically every tile that works that way...
Yeah, it's really unfortunate. Not being able to pre turn most of the time is just painful.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
The volume on certain things like this makes more sense when you understand that the forums in general have an incredibly high number of killer players compared to the total game population.
Not only that, but people who tend to use the phrase 'power role' give the vibe of 'we're done when I say we're done', and are extremely offended that survivors didn't ask permission to leave the trial. For some people, it's just a power trip, not a game, unfortunately.
To the actual topic: I feel like lobby dodging has only one purpose and that's shopping for an 'easy' game. There are legit reasons to drop a lobby, don't get me wrong: things happen IRL, so it's not like dropping from the lobby ever, for any reason, is a heinous crime.
But dropping for the purpose of manipulating the game difficulty is what we're talking about here, and that's ruining the game experience of 5 other players in a match you are dodging at that point. I don't necessarily think a wait/DC timer is necessary, personally, but the literal least effort solution that hurts nothing at all is hiding prestige in the lobby.
The fact that they trialled this and it's been months (almost a year?) and it's still up in the air, tells me that they either don't care to do literally anything about it, or perhaps there's someone at BHVR who thrives on lobby dodging and has some direct influence over the decision.
People want to actually play out a game past one min without being guaranteed to lose, somehow that's a killer player issue? I'll give it to you, killer players are slightly more competitive than survivors on average. But that doesn't somehow discount neutral or survivor players who just want to play out games, MAJORITY of which suicides take place are winnable.
Why do both you and the general player base think consistently playing a semi-competitive match is a such a bad thing? How does it always equate to power role and killer and not just I want a shot at winning without my teamates inting?
Everything you said about lobby shopping applies to leaving the game in any way but especially the free way 10 fold.
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I think a more mismatched game because of dodging isn't nearly as damaging as the game being auto over, don't think I need to explicate on that. That being said though I'd take this trade in .01 seconds, they are both bad for the game regardless of which ones worse.
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@Rogue11 said:
Weird, I was reliably informed that bump logic was in every way superior to hug tech and I would rue the day BHVR took the "only for fun" exploit away…
Actually watches any amazing comp blight or the 2k winstreak guy
Sees them hug tech once every two games
People act like him bump logic didn't get nerfed as well. They took the (stickyness) of collision too far and now it's actually detrimental, blights still good ofc but the glue is absurd. Imagine your curve on billy and collide because you decided to turn 3 degrees past 0 while doing so, does that sound fun? Does that sound better? No it's not fluid and it sucks.
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@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723042#Comment_3723042
Let me reiterate; I am not, was not, and continue to not talk about another game in another genre in a topic that is about Dead By Daylight. They're two different games, of two (completely) different genres, that by their very nature require different types of balancing - that's not an excuse, that's completely relevant, whether you choose to hand-wave that or not.
We're not talking about Siege, we're talking about Dead by Daylight. One is an FPS, one is an asymmetrical game — a genre notoriously hard to balance — that relies heavily upon its sound design for part of that balancing.
This is the first paragraph of my response to you, minus the one apparently correct part. According to you, this is a topic about Rainbow Six Siege, Siege is not an FPS and Dead By Daylight is not an asymmetrical game. It's also apparently a very easy genre to balance, despite all the evidence to the contrary. What's wild is that you came back to a topic that was pretty much dead to, "Nuh, u r actually wrong" and start an argument out of a normal conversation with such a ridiculous statement that it makes me question whether or not you're even reading things. That paragraph was 55 words long and you didn't read 38 of them.
If this conversation hadn't reached its conclusion before, it has now. I don't care for your unearned arrogance, your projection and your condescension. I don't care either for whatever backtracking or scrabbling you'll do in response to this post to make yourself look correct, so don't bother responding because I won't waste my time reading it, nor will I give you any further attention.
I'm genuinely not going to read past your self quote. DBD actually relies far less on sound for it's balancing and you keep bringing it up. Siege was an example, a far more extreme example, that's far more competitive and sound means far more. That's the point, my entire example supercedes your own because it simply takes everything your talking about and pushes it up to 11 compared to dbd. DBD doesn't rely more on sound and it's most definitely not balanced around it more with the immense variance on killer and survivor sounds.
It's like you don't know how to directly address and keep deflecting into an easier to handle conversation for yourself. Even your last paragraph where you just claim I'm arrogant and condescending is deflecting. Every time you replied to archol it was the same thing, nobody can have a debate with you if you push all their arguments away, ignore every real thing they are saying and continue on with your day.
Your argument has been "it's an assym" this entire time and that's not an argument, it's an excuse lol. I don't need attention. Your entire conversation with archol is a testament to your inability to actually civilly debate with someone.
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@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722462#Comment_3722462
That's clearly not what I said or even remotely implied. If you wish to infer that, you're welcome to do so, but you've clearly given up on the pretence of having an actual discussion at this point.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722446#Comment_3722446
We're not talking about Siege, we're talking about Dead by Daylight. One is an FPS, one is an asymmetrical game — a genre notoriously hard to balance — that relies heavily upon its sound design for part of that balancing. What another dev, that created another game in another genre, chooses to do is up to them.
"Knowing what to expect" doesn't suddenly make specific brands of headphones with filtering hardware, that Behaviour has no involvement with, first-party. They're still third-party, and they're still allowing you to manipulate the game audio in unintended ways.
ummmm, let me reiterate, siege is infinitely more meaningful in regards to sound. You bringing up assym is just an excuse.
Bhvr didn't choose anything as I said it's up to them to somewhat adapt the major hardware devs not the otherway around. They know in advance.
These headset programs existed consistently before dbd, it's not on the players at all. Considering it legit cheating is just trying to make yourself feel better or you got slighted in some other game.
Something everyone has access to easily and isn't against the rules is not cheating. Just accept it, you have very weak arguments here. Your entire first paragraph is just straight up wrong besides the very last sentence and it's not even a debate, it's wild you even typed that out.
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@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721829#Comment_3721829
Using something outside the scope of the game to gain an unfair advantage is quite clearly cheating. Behaviour simply chooses to avoid addressing certain things because it would achieve nothing but flood the system with reports that would go nowhere. To ban something that you know, I know, and they know is unverifiable and unenforceable would only make them look ridiculous. To make it a reportable offence when you know, I know, and they know that 100% of those reports would have to be discarded would only further the ridiculousness.
To any reasonable person, it's still cheating. It just can't be proven and is easier for Behaviour to ignore it.
It's not an unfair advantage if everyone has reasonable access to it. It's why something like nvidia filters are fine because ALOT of monitors are capable of something similar these days.
Sure it's not enforceable but again everyone has some access to it.
@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722217#Comment_3722217
If a game is capable of being run at 120hz, then all that monitor is doing is allowing you to avail yourself fully of what the game is capable of. You're using your hardware to play the game in a way that was intended. A refresh rate of 120hz isn't going to do a damn thing if a game couldn't run beyond 60 hz, and any attempts to mod that frame rate to be higher A) Has nothing to do with the monitor (because frame interpolation isn't handled by the monitor), and B) Would risk causing significant issues, including latency.
The game does not come with audio sliders to raise or reduce the prominence of certain sounds, it does not come with hardware to filter sounds. If you own the best set of headphones in the world, you might be able to pick up more subtle sounds, but that is not the same as having specific hardware or software to manipulate the levels of those sounds for an advantage. That is not an advantage specific to headphones, it's an advantage afforded by specific headphones with specific hardware and software that allows you to interact with the game audio in an unintended way.
You know this, you're not dumb. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.
In a game much more competitive and FAR more sound based like siege the devs have known about it and even encouraged it forever ago. It's not even really third party as all devs should know what to expect from the software of major hardware companies.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Annoying and IMO outside of a challenge not really worth it. Especially if not all Gens got done, the Killer clearly won with a 3K. And even if the Killer does not slug, they have the higher chance to find the Hatch anyway, the Survivor at this point can only escape when they become lucky.
So yeah, wasting the time of everyone around just for a small ego boost is annoying.
True, couldn't be me wasting that time ever. BUT, the survivors could also just accept the worst outcome every game, get FAR more value in terms of fun(one last chase) and not potentially hold the game hostage.
Again I don't have the care as there is no value in getting the 4k but why blame someone for going all the way? How is that ego? It makes less sense from survivor when survivors do it and BOTH sides are in the same predicament.
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In terms of map traversal it was good, in terms of optimally chasing it was on average mid. What it was really busted at was making mid-bad filler tiles really blight sided. "Oh no the already killer sided filler tiles for m1 killers can be blight sided that doesn't make sense!"
So in reality devs heard crying, literally don't know any
better because there's probably not a single dev who is really good at blight or really good at survivor to actually put down these dumb claims.
Go watch that 2k win streak on blight, go watch comp blight before it got removed. Be amazed as it rarely got used if at all by the best teams in the game period. But people on the forum will still argue it. All it did outside of some filler tiles was allow FAR more interactivity and would it be dbd if immense interactivity was allowed by the devs or player base? Obviously not LOL
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717521#Comment_3717521
Like I already said: Good luck trying to prove they are throwing the game.
Imagine if "playing bad" was a reportable offense? Is there a game that does that? lmao
"i had matchs as survivor that were so close winning and escaping but teammates plagued by this "just go next" mentality giving up on hook and RUINING matches for us"
ME TOO! And many of these matches were saved because someone escaped the hook as a last resort! WOW!
"Like I already said: Good luck trying to prove they are throwing the game.
Imagine if "playing bad" was a reportable offense? Is there a game that does that? lmao"
HAHAHAHHAHA
Yeah, literally every other game. This game has mmr, so it can detect based on previous behavior if you are throwing the match. But that's kinda not true because they also encourage game ruining challenges and behavior.
Also games saved by 4% vs games ruined by it are so uncompilable it's beyond laughable you brought it up.
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@Marioneo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717563#Comment_3717563
makes sense i cant find anyone else and theres two fully visible healing im at least getting the unhooker
Sure but a ton of people drop chase to come back.
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Killers very much come back to the hook a lot more these days, so generally I wouldn't unless the killer is in chase.
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@Pulsar said:
180 Blight and Hug was definitely far too good.
Now, you could've made the argument that the fun/skill-expression to power ratio was fine, but you didn't.
Hug tech can be argued but I really don't think 180's were ever too good or even good relative to blight for that matter, oni's near instant 180s are a lot better but even those aren't breaking his kit.
For the post: At this point I just want the killer to be a bit less sticky, you can't turn 3 degrees towards an object without colliding and it's quite obnoxious. I know the hug tech will never come back even if it was never that strong, I just want the killer to be fluid still.
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It's a very useful perk so that you don't get screwed over by rng and pallets that have been dropped without your knowledge. It is sort of a crutch once in a while when new players use it to insta drop every pallet but I don't actually see that often.
Also pick rate can be an indication of strength, not always but it is most definitely a factor.
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@Blueberry said:
This is a people thing, not a killer thing.
"Too many killers complain that the game is unfair but they don't work to
improve their game by watching tutorials or run the perks needed to
balance their weaknesses. Sometimes you are the main cause of your own
demise during a match."You could just as easily take this entire statement and replace "killers" with "survivors".
It's just human nature to be this way, not specifically one side.
Yeah it's def both sides but in regards to the human nature thing it's really bad in this game compared to others.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715768#Comment_3715768
Maps definitely haven't been turned into massive deadzones, unless you are talking about outliers like Torment Creek. The map balancing has actually been very good on average in this game at the moment, with only a few mess ups, like the new Haddonfield.
I do agree that OP's post is wrong though. Killers have been eating pretty good at the moment.
Every single change they have done to Mac and Autohaven have been for the worse in the past 3 years besides the edge map filler tiles on auto and I guess the car wall split. Coldwind was too strong with those S tier fillers but I think they went too far.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714164#Comment_3714164
DbD is semi-competitive? If you say so…
But the main difference between the discussed kinds of games, and the reason why quitting is generally more acceptable and tolerated in DbD community than in actual competitive games, is because DbD gives greatly more reasons to want to leave in the first place. In CS, you won't want to quit in order to avoid a 45-minute long 3gen SM standoff, you won't want to leave from never-missing nurse who booted up a single-player game, from lagging killer, from teammates hiding in bushes, from Legion's mending simulator, from og iri head huntress, etc. DbD mathematically can't ever be balanced, but it's also half broken most of the time, and a lot of things in it are unfair and frustrating by design. In CS and other actually competitive games, no matter how bad your match can be, at least you get to actually play it every time all the same, without just wasting your time into the void. In DbD, it's not the case, asymmetry only adds to the imbalance and to the "your opponent will decide what you get to play" factor. These are only some of the reasons why comparing DbD to competitive shooters is as ridiculous as comparing it to hockey.
The fact that so many people in the community actually want the ability to leave without punishment (and leave anyway) should tell you something. You can't explain and justify everything with just "well, the community is just entitled and toxic in itself", because the community was formed by the game. Telling "it's the community to blame, not the game" is just a tautology, it's literally saying "dbd players are bad because they are bad", without trying to look for the actual reason why this game brought up such a mindset in the playerbase.
Never compared it to a shooter game, you keep bringing up cs because you've likely played it but that's one of many semi-actually competitive games.
3-gen SM standoff - A lack of agency due to a teamates incompetence, skill and potential a player is throwing because of the nature of the game(just like someone giving up early). I don't like SM but the killer is not the same as before.
Nurse - Can't defend that killer is by intention completely broken.
lagging killer - Lag like this applies to all games but mobas and some fighting games with extensive systems designed around it, servers are particularly bad in dbd though without ping limits.
Legion- not exactly enticing game play but all comp games have very similar games all the time, killers not even strong just not too fun (boo hoo, things can be far worse in more popular games)
Og iri head - I've been playing this game for over 3 years and just mentioned something I've never seen, what's the point?
As a over decade long league player (a game far more popular than anything mentioned) let me tell you a scenario very possible in every game below the low ranks. You go top lane into a counter matchup because you picked after them, they happen to be a strong early game champ and due to that fact they get full control over how the waves will play out. With that in play the only thing that can change the outcome of your lane is the jungler impacting it and you forfeiting a ton resources in order to be somewhat relevant. You have 0 agency and rely on another player on your team to put themselves at a disadvantage in order for you to be able to play(WOW does that sound familiar???).
The game has a couple things that are very frustrating to deal with, but it's doable and people shouldn't' be queueing up to the mental breaking point of "I'm just going to leave 35 seconds in because I can".
Also dbd players are bad. The average player is so bad that even great streamers have gaslit themselves into thinking it takes 6k hours to be good player. k
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714103#Comment_3714103
Imagine comparing DbD to symmetric competitive shooters like Counter Strike and Siege. What else would you compare it to? Hockey?
Let me break it down for you. It doesn't matter that it's asymm, it's a semi-competitive game where one person can ruin the other four peoples game, every game without consequences.
This two sentence pittance is all I can put into the argument at this point because logic is never involved on the opposing side.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710112#Comment_3710112
Does balanced = fun? Do you think balance through nerfing is more fun than balance through buffing?
By your own admission, the game used to be way better for survivors, and they fell off hard, so what's a reason why survivors should continue to play?
Not trying to load these questions, but I'm genuinely curious because it seems like people imply survivors should be grateful they got kneecapped.
All of the old things survivors had that were op were also extremely frustrating, dh, IW and CoH. That's just what is was when I started playing not to mention the far more absurd things before that.
Now lets move to killer. Eruption/CoB/OC was just as frustrating to play against, it invalidated plays.
So lets say all those things are still in the game, blight, nurse and spirit get reverted. They buff all the low interactivity mid or lower killers up to what is now A tier and then buff all the the bad perks up to current pain res level for both sides. What happens?
Everyone is even more frustrated and there is less interactivity.
Thus you dumb down the perks and the strong killers so the base game play comes through more which makes a lot more sense. The game would be even more of a mess like it was in the past if bhvr(of all devs 😂) were allowed to go through with your ideal.
What's the problem right now? A few perks could be tunned down and the game needs to address the ability to leave for free, tunneling, too many gen perks, backround player having very little interactivity.
It's far easier and healthier to fix things that are too strong than to buff up random things that aren't designed well enough to be good without being beyond frustrating.
Anyway if you reply to this please address multiple points and not just one point where you dismiss it. That would render your response to beyond worthless. Thank you.
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Apparently wanting players to not be able to leave a competitive game that instantly loses their team the game is very controversial here.
I don't even try and argue with people about it anymore because they don't actually put up an argument and regurgitate the same couple things.
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Gens are boring, but making the game hide and seek is not the answer. Gens are there to prevent that, the problem is coming up with a suitable replacement for them.
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@Blueberry said:
Distortion is unhealthy design in its current state. We want to encourage killers away from just stacking 4 slow downs but Distortions existence encourages it. It reduces the perk diversity we currently have which is already very low as it is.
Think of it this way. What if killers had a perk that just 100% turned off all Exhaustion perks? Is that fine? Like the logic most people are using to defend Distortion, well if the survivors don't bring an Exhaustion perk then the killers perk is a wasted slot as well now so it's totally fine right? See how that logic doesn't go both ways?
No one would be okay with a killer perk that 100% turned off Exhaustion perks, but are totally fine with a survivor perk that 100% turns off Aura perks.
Yep, this is the answer. Everyone defending this terribly designed perk just won't admit it.
Is it op? Not quite.
Is it extremely unfair? Yes.Killer perk that turns off all items, all exhaustion, all healing. Anything. People would throw the largest fit ever.
But killer aura reading, something that's not really that strong it's ok for.
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Always a blast watching people try and argue against this. Really shows how twisted the mentality of this community is.
The game does not function when one side of it can leave on a whim. If what op said came to pass the game would heal to a great extent and that's a pure fact.
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@goodfriday said:
All these reply of this is not fair to killers who do not tunnel. I am sorry to say but I cannot remember a time a killer does NOT tunnel/slug/camp because its been such a norm for me that even if there is a chance they dont well I simply have ptsd that it will happen and never accept the fact that it will not happen. Worst is when a killer brings a mori and your a streamer like myself its a strong indication its a sweaty tunnely camp/slug/killer.
Funny thing is those saying it gives me a reason to tunnel/slug more as if that was not always a thing that exist, I swear there is always some useless counter point about these killers who say why they tunnel/camp/slug which is the same as those that complain about distortion or any survivor perk that negates some of their plans.
You all know yall always tunnel/camp/slug for anything and everything, ds or not , distortion or not because any one thing a survivor do like stunning you with pallet/flashlight/flashbang save a teamate/blast mine/or head on you or overall just outplayed you in a way you do not like, your ego is so harmed that tunnel/slug/camp mode is activated. Goodness am so glad identity v community is not like this. Hunters actually do not even complain about body blocking or anything survivors do lol. That game is balanced on both sides anyways so makes sense.
"wahhhh, I'm facing the exact opposite of what these killers are experiencing on the other role and that makes my experience more valid".
You realize people who don't tunnel unless ds is forced upon them likely play both roles and they are just left with 0 options unless heavily winning? It's not another counter point, it's THE counter point. You can't in good faith argue it because it leaves the killers with few options.
"You all know yall always tunnel/camp/slug for anything and everything, ds or not , distortion or not because any one thing a survivor do like stunning you with pallet/flashlight/flashbang save a teamate/blast mine/or head on you or overall just outplayed you in a way you do not like, your ego is so harmed that tunnel/slug/camp mode is activated"
Bro listed off frustrating things for casual players on both sides and thought he had a point.
Like I get it, killers and survivors play in the same monotonous playstyles that are seen every game but at least try to be a bit fair.
FYI I mostly play survivor these days I've just done both so I can actually be unbiased.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710436#Comment_3710436
You're right, I should know to use the appropriate language for my audience
Take the hit for your teammate on death hook. It's not as black and white as it's made out to be mate
The strat you are referring to was something I saw, understood and knew the counter play of by max 30 hours on killer. It's just a simple as you said, have ds and not be on death hook = take hit for death hook teammate.
There's not a lot about this game that is extremely advanced in comparison to other games, there are some things but that's something I watched happen to otz on my first youtube video of dbd before I actually started playing.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710218#Comment_3710218
If they are offering themselves up to you, then why does it matter when you can ignore them, just slug the body blocker, or give them the attention they want if you're inclined. They are not doing gens during all the time they try to catch your attention. And as long as you don't pick them up they can only bodyblock once with endurance.
Also, if I'm a surv with DS, and I have fewer hooks than the teammate unhooking me, then why shouldn't I be bodyblocking for the teammate? Especially in scenarios where the unhooker is on death hook? That's just advanced strategem.
"advanced strategem"
Bro, it's dbd
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710218#Comment_3710218
So OP, in this, there is already the decision made to tunnel. But, if you body block with DS, he WILL tunnel. See? So, again….
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710232#Comment_3710232
Just follow this rule and try to enjoy the game, because "Since the DS buff, I've tunneled a lot more." You will get tunneled because BHVR buffed a survivor perk. Its what you deserve for being in a trial.
But I am curious, what would make you go out of your way not to tunnel? Something has to happen in game? You just need to be in a good mood? Lemme know! @Xernoton
The point was there was never an intention to tunnel until ds was attempted to be forced. I think you misinterpreted something pretty heavily here.
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@Mag1cian said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708444#Comment_3708444
Well I do agree that sometimes it's more enterteining to play against against Hug Blight but when Blight is experienced tryhard it's not interesting at all and feels awful. If they could like fix Hug partially and fix "V1" I would agree but I doubt that's possible because they kinda connected to each other.
Cuz how can u say this is fair:People who's saying this is like "skill issue" and removing hug "doesn't even do anything except make Blight less interesting" just want to justify this broken exploit that gives them significant advantage.
I mean the problem with all of these clips is that v1 completely eradicates the .75 second windup of the hug tech. If the blight bumps into in object near point blank it's pretty obvious he's going to go for a hug tech and you have a couple options to deal with that, not to mention quite a lot of tiles will blind a blight for doing so. Standalone it was perfectly fine. Filler tiles could be blight sided, neutral or once in a while even still survivor sided in the context of blight.
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I don't play killer much but I still run shadow born bbq most of the time, I literally forgot what shadowborn does now but I don't care to take it off.
Sometimes I want to not challenge myself so much and run a slow down.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707792#Comment_3707792
It's almost like a relatively small game like dbd would benefit from just mindlessly listening to their top content creators at this point which isn't the case with every game.The thing is, its not a small game. Sure its not league, but when they hit the 60 million player mark in November they also said they had 300 people working on the game every day.
I usually defend BHVR pretty heavily. I get the balance issue, the meta is very different depending on region, SWF vs soloq is a huge challenge, that the level of sweatiness is left up to the player, and the ultimate goal is not a balanced game but one that is tilted toward the killer. That doesn't mean I think they make the right decisions on it, but I at least understand the problems they face.
But the bugs? If it was just one bad patch I'd say to give them a break, but its like every patch we get completely new things that are broken. I usually disagree with the idea of an 'Operation Health' style patch, but if every update is going to have bugs it really should be considered.
The whole reason Starbreeze had its publishing rights bought out was specifically because of their crunch culture issues, so why is this still such a large problem?I think its all the platforms. Releasing a patch on something like PC is pretty easy, but things have to go through testing on consoles (not for bugs in gameplay, but I think to ensure compatiability). That means there needs to be firm dates that probably can't be moved.
"The thing is, its not a small game. Sure its not league, but when they hit the 60 million player mark in November they also said they had 300 people working on the game every day."
That only helps my argument to a laughable extent. 300 people and they couldn't produce consistent even semi-competent patches.
"I usually defend BHVR pretty heavily. I get the balance issue, the meta is very different depending on region, SWF vs soloq is a huge challenge, that the level of sweatiness is left up to the player, and the ultimate goal is not a balanced game but one that is tilted toward the killer. That doesn't mean I think they make the right decisions on it, but I at least understand the problems they face."
Yeah league faces the same challenge on level far greater than swf vs soloq. Champs preform so extremely differently at different ranks that they have to decide to balance for the higher or lower end sometimes. Garen, one of the most simple characters in the game shouldn't be functioning above a 50.5% at high ranks, that means he's over tunned. The hundreds of items factor in to each champ and the runes that heavily impact the meta at any given rank need to be taken into account. DBD by comparison is easy mode unless their personal spaghetti that much worse as a game that came out 7 years later. Surely bhvr with an easier game to work with, with such a large amount of devs should be preforming FAR better than their current standard. Clown can't be buffed in dbd because of how simple he is and frustrating he would be to play against as a high level survivor if he could actually compete with them. You have to admit they make very few changes and half of them are typically irrelevant, maybe more every single patch, which takes a month and a half. 300 hundred people, 300 and they do next to nothing to change what matters in their game.
I don't actually think they want the game to be skewed towards killers when both sides are going all out, they just are that unaware of their own game. 60% makes sense when thinking about the many ways survivors throw the game by playing for fun, but it doesn't translate well. Tunneling is extremely frustrating for average survivors(almost all players) and they have openly stated they don't intend to deal with it. They buff ds back up to what it was but the damage is done, killers know it doesn't matter that much.
@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707792#Comment_3707792
I really don't think content creators should give marching orders to professional game developers.
Those professional game devs preform very poorly. I'm not saying comp players should influence balance but quite a few of the top content creators know far better than the devs. It'd be quite odd to think otherwise at this point. Otz would literally nerf blight into a b tier killer given the chance as he hates him, but I'll take that L for the greater good of the game. Nurse exists because "it's fine for her to be op we know and want her to be that way".
I'm not even a giant fan of any given content creator anymore but they do know better than the devs, they would take the game to a better place in just a couple patches.Good on bhvr they spent years making a twins rework just to **** out something that looks like a middle schoolers last night final project. Props to them though! They reverted it and kept some number buffs! Really exceptional.
They have or had a fog whisperer discord for years and almost all suggestions got out right ignored so it was just worthless.
So in some games you'd be right but not this one, they should be giving marching orders because they would make the game exceptionally better!
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707774#Comment_3707774
I think that might be the worst part of it all. With the Twins rework being reverted, the DS buff and Haddonfield rework are basically the only changes worth noting (ig aside from the new shop UI and UW)
With such relatively small content for a mid chapter, it feels all the more insulting that they still updated to UE5 and introduced Pandora's Box of Bugs on us.
There definitely needs to be more balancers and bug fixer's hired, although I imagine the spaghetti code means training new employees is a nightmare.
I can't specifically say the balance team is large but bhvrs team in general is very large. I bring this up often but league is a frustrating game that has probably at least the top three most players in the world outside of mobile games. But it has a two week balance cycle that keeps such a large system somewhat fresh. Let me be clear league has a higher level of frustration potential but not the frustration consistency of dbd. That stems from how little the devs know about their own game and how infrequent they balance.
I'm pretty sure league has no more than 10 people that come up with and implement changes on a two week cycle that averages 15 changes a patch working on a terrible 32 bit game from 2009 so I don't really think spaghetti code is an excuse. Overwatch is in the same predicament as dbd right now and it's also due to their balance/change/design team, they've been running that game into the ground for years.
It's almost like a relatively small game like dbd would benefit from just mindlessly listening to their top content creators at this point which isn't the case with every game. But I'd trust some goofy person who barely cares about balance like jrm more than the current team.
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WIth how little changes they make a ptb like that shouldn't come into existence. They spend literal months and come up with blantently bad changes, small amount of changes and just bewildering changes such as the mere idea of the twins rework, soul chemical and summoning stone going from mid but interesting to trash and lame, DS animation being removed. This patch amounted to almost nothing, years spent talking about the twins rework for them to get slight number changes and nothing else.
You don't spend 1 and a half months to make nothing changes and when one big patch a year. I'd like to think there's no more than 2 devs on the balance team, one that thinks up the changes and one that implements them into the game.
The reality though is that frustrating games can be ever growing if they get properly updated but bhvr even if they have some how upped their game since I joined in 2021 is so below expectation that it isn't the case.
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@sonata93 said:
Adrenaline is still a strong perk and I will still equip it.
The question is: did it really need a nerf? Like anything in this game, it’s quite a complex issue. Like most strong survivor perks, it was easily counter-able by A tier killers (Blight, Nurse, etc) or one-shot/NOED using killers. But then it’s really harsh on M1/low mobility killers like Trapper who could have any end game pressure removed, particular in SWF’s when it’s not uncommon to have 2, 3, or even all 4 survivors running Adrenaline.
I did always think it was very powerful that an unhooked survivor running Adrenaline could heal instantly off the hook. An argument could be made that it incentivises tunnelling in the end game even more now. Now I know people did abuse old DS in the EG, but devs have made their stance pretty clear that tunelling is fair game in the end game… no DS, OTR, and now Adrenaline off the hook? Call it “game health changes” or whatever you want, but devs are essentially saying that it’s ok to tunnel in the end game. Which I guess is a whole other conversation.
It's not really countered by strong killers though, they can just deal with it's affect better. The preassure is still removed for a bit, just not an instant loss.
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Regardless of the hug tech blight is far too sticky, playing around tiles feel very not fluid.
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@BrightWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705466#Comment_3705466
Oh agree, killer strategies are just boring af at the moment either due to meta or because people can't be more creative or are try-harding for no reason. Like I'm not saying don't play to win, do that, play to win, but at least use your brain a little. There's more to the game than just soft/smart tunnelling out one survivor, patrolling/guarding a 3-gen and then just chasing survivors away from said 3-gen.
Play more than Devour Blight, SM/Perma Tier 3 Myers, Gen guard Insidious Slinger, Caitlyn 3-genner, proxy camp Huntress or Impossible Skillcheck Doctor (NGL, I do find Impossible Skillcheck Doctor super fun, but it does become stale after a while). Please do more than just run back to every hook once you get an unhook notification or chase survivors away from a 3-gen, only to not engage with survivors after chasing them. Stop being so boring.
ETA: To add onto this, as I also play Killer a lot too. Survivor stratrtegies are getting just as boring, but I whine less about that because what else is there for them to do? Unless they're doing a daily or a tome challenge, all they can really do is just complete generators. I'm not advocating for survivor snot to play to win either, but I would be a hypocrit to admit that even Surviors have boring gameplay as well. Just pick meta perks, hold W on a gen, press the skillcheck and pan the camera around, occasionally take chase. Then is you're feeling liek a sore winner, TBag the killer at exit gate, because the killer playing more casually or not running meta is worthy of being "shat" on.
"There's more to the game than just soft/smart tunnelling out one survivor, patrolling/guarding a 3-gen and then just chasing survivors away from said 3-gen."
Don't get me wrong when I say this because I despise ego, but any real killer playing a killer with skill expression doesn't need any of that. I mained many killers before blight and only hag I give way to because playing around a web is the only way to play her.
I've been a hybrid player for almost 2 years now(6.1.0) and the amount of rot dealt to the brains of killers via the gen kick meta has made me dislike killers far more. Every, single, game a killer will take a kick over a free hit or EVEN A DOWN on me. I can't deal with it, it makes me so mad. My macro that peaked in 2022 is far better than 95% of killers while being under the influence and I don't even use it.
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It's been a long time since I got a heal teched but it really shouldn't be a thing.
BRP has no place in game.
Distortion is an overtunned remnant for what it is from a different game.
I don't play killer much these days so nothing else comes to mind right now.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Dont get your hopes up. A "Meta Shake Up" for Killer will just mean that they switch from Slowdown-Perks A, B, C and D to Slowdown-Perks E, F, G and H.
Remember, during the 6.1.0 Patch Eruption was buffed into being insufferable for a few months. If they would do another Meta-Shake Up you will probably see PGTW and Pain Res nerfed only to
a) being replaced by other Slowdown-Perks which are at least as equally strong and
b) being buffed again a few months afterwards
I know it's not going to happen but the solution is to allow killers to take only one gen slow down perk into the game exclusively and balance around that fact.
It becomes really hard to make any of these perks strong when something like current pop+pr turns out to be so horribly oppressive, even though stand alone they are worse than previous iterations. Although it becomes a bit hard to say whether this would apply to gen blocking and gen regression. It's easy to put them in the same one perk limit as regression but many of them are worse than majority of regression.
Again not going to happen but I think it's the right route to go. I'm not sure what's directly comparable to killer slowdown besides exhaustion and that's already pretty much capped to one perk slot, but I know for a fact killers would be asking for reparation's even if pain res was buffed to 40% as a standalone slowdown perk.
At least if this happened it could open up the killer meta more.
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@BrightWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704937#Comment_3704937
I certainly feel that way about Blight currently, the last three Blights I've played against were terrible with their map presence/gen pressure and were either tunnelling arseholes or back-to-hook Andies. They were also easily the easiest Blights I've ever been able to spin and that's saying something cause I'm bad at playing against Blight or maybe I'm getting better, I can't tell, lmao. All of them had been running some form of NoEd+Devour+NWO+Surge/Pop/Pain Res/Overcharge/Lethal, on top of using some of the Add-Ons that help with him missing his rushes and recovering faster from missed swings. All in an attempt to make up for their poor map control, on top of them tunnelling to force value out of Devour, but w/e it works for them right so therefore it must be good and is "balanced".
Sorry, I don't mean to sound salty, and I have massive respect for people who play Blight in unscummy ways. But when you see it a few times in a row, you begin to really really hate Blight or at least some of the people who play him.
I don't blame you for disliking blight because of it's players, it's why I dislike hillbilly now. They just run the meta and more importantly go back to every single unhook, with hillbilly it does feel worse for me since he can just get a free insta down if he has awareness on game state. I went against a nurse who went back to every single unhook last week and was just bored, she wasn't technically tunneling but the game was actually more boring and uninteractive than if she did.
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@Feetusgod9 said:
has anyone ever had the unfortunate circumstance where you are queued against a good player who is playing your killer main? I always find myself losing against Xenomorphs and singularities on the very off chance that I get one (Dammit people, use killers other than bubba, billy, nurse, and blight, PLEASE!) btw I am a Xeno, singularity, and unknown main yet I hate playing against them, why is this?
The idea of losing vs a character you main in any game doesn't feel too good(unless mirrors are allowed). Also your mains aren't exactly fun to play against in general.
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Unfortunately there's a lot of uninteractivity in this game. Killer and map designs create situations that so heavily favor one side it's boring.
rant: It's unreasonable for most gamers and especially dbd players to be asked to look into blight and get to the point he's exceptionally fun to play again(in the 1/10 chance he's not running pop/PR and going back to every hook LOL). Going against blights who just play for chase and reading their available bump logic, factoring in potential plutos(although that might be gone next patch for 0 reason) and playing around that is the highest level of chase possible for BOTH sides.
Many low tier killers suck to play against and honestly there are few in the general A tier that feel bad to play against, It's pretty much just spirit, chucky and xeno(although xeno might not be considered that strong anymore).
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Nurse is one of the most unique Killers in the game, like it or not.
She is the ONLY killer from ALL 35+ killers that you have to play differently againts and as her. You have to change your playstyle.
She was nerfed like X times in row, like almost every year she gets nerfed. How much you people want? Do you want to make her just bad killer to play? She is one of the few killers if not the only one who even the most skilled Survivors have to respect (her power).
Her power is poorly designed. If she was the hardest killer it could somewhat warrant her strength but she's not.
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2 Years if it's 5 out of 7 for sure.
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Any real dev team would be on a far faster patch cycle(excluding reworks[bhvr doesn't make real reworks LOL])
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Nurse obviously.
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Bp means nothing a dc isn't worth playing another second.
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I started getting hardcore into dbd killer in early July 2021, sbmm was added september 2021.
I played hundreds of games per month until sbmm and had a 90% win rate. Don't kid yourself game was free.
Edit: I want to make it clear I didn't play blight until much later.
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4 out or 4k dead is the only fun part of the game and it's very rare.