Saiph
Saiph
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@PapaEmeritus69 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3513179#Comment_3513179
Totally see your point but that isn't really true in the same sense. Many perks on both sides are aura perks that only that player knows about and no one has an issue with that. Once Hubris is activated and you go down, you know. If you get hit by Coup and see it, you know, NOED too, bloodwarden, no way out, they are all revealed and not a mystery at that point. Pretty much every exceptionally strong perk can be gleamed by context clues or you at least know when it is finally used or activated. The issue with MFT is that it really can't be, other than the endurance effect and even that could be several other perks. Its really hard to tell if someone has it or not at any point and you might only find out at the end.
Not sure if giving a hint is the right thing to do but it certainly is tricky to sus out sometimes. Its almost like the subtle speed hacking. You can guess all day but you don't know until the end really. I've been hitting air on short loops a lot recently so it can be pretty sneaky.
For me though the endurance is the only super annoying part. The haste is wild with hope but I look at it like most end game perks, I'm the reason it got to that because I couldn't end it before the gens got done. Kind of like old DS. I personally thought it was fine that you could use it at EGC cause you shouldn't be punished for the killer doing poorly. However, stacking haste could get crazy later. It should be watched closely.
You can sort of guess MFT though if you don't see any other exhaustion perk, since all exhaustion perks have very obvious effects except Head-On.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3513207#Comment_3513207
"then you as killer should be fine with MFT because you aren't going to lose the game on one chase either."
This statement is not completely true for killer. If you take the wrong chase at the wrong time you can competely lose a match because of that chase. You may down that survivor yeah but it most likely costs you a lot of pressure and the other 3 survivors finish gens and either get a 3 man out or even a 4 man depending on the hook state of the survivor you downed. On the flip side if a survivor has one bad chase the team can easily recover and get out with no issues. Chases and mistakes have a much bigger impact on killers than on survivors bc it's a 4v1 game.
I don't really defend one or the other. But to me, they are very similar in nature, and so any argument against one but not the other will lead to contradictions.
These 2 perks share the same fundamental concept. They give you a small advantage in chase that is not noticeable until the moment where the other party is screwed. So, if one is problematic, then the other must be problematic too.
For example, you're saying that MFT is stronger than Coup because it's a big deal when the killer loses a chase, but this is completely paradoxical as their effects are symmetric: if MFT is strong because it increases the chance of a game-winning scenario happening, then Coup is just as strong because it reduces the chance of this same scenario happening.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3513179#Comment_3513179
It mainly depends on the strength of it's initial effect, and how easily one can recover from being hit by it.
You aren't gonna lose the game to a hubris, or a coup (although they can be annoying being the first one hit by them). NOED is the outlier, however ever since they changed it to reveal the totems aura it's sometimes easy to recover from. Pre-aura NOED and pre nerf eruption are examples of how a MFT situation could happen on the killer side, you can't see it coming, and when it does proc, its incredibly hard and sometimes impossible to recover from.
Both have the same effect though? MFT makes the killer miss a hit that was very close, Coup makes them succeed a hit that was very close.
I'd much rather have Coup against a survivor with MFT, rather than both of us having no perk. So Coup is stronger than MFT in chase.
So, if Coup is fine because survivors aren't going to lose the game based on one chase, then you as killer should be fine with MFT because you aren't going to lose the game on one chase either.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3513166#Comment_3513166
I will gladly take the visual cue so I know which chases to commit to and which ones not to. That's my main issue with the perk.
If MFT gets revealed to the killer, do you think perks like Hubris, Coup de Grâce, NOED should also reveal to survivor or not? Because the situation is kind of similar, you can't really know the other player has it, until you get screwed by it...
I agree it's bad design to have perks like this but it's how it works for many of the killer perks at the moment, seen from the survivor side, and yet I bet you don't find these perks as unfair?
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Tbh I wonder the same, and I think the reason is that some people just value their own time very little, if not to say that some are actual sociopaths/sadists. I think it makes sense that people who are disturbed irl would particularly enjoy playing a game that lets be a horror killer.
I know it sounds exaggerated, but watch this.
While doing challenges, Hens found a killer player who was LITERALLY BLEEDING OUT THE BOTS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bebJOAqN8zg&t=2105s -
I sort of disagree with your list placements. For me "Hard" means that if you put a player with little experience with this killer (say 5 hours), then they would get little value out of their power, and overall perform poorly. In contrast "Easy" would mean that the power gives a lot of value even if you don't master it.
By that definition, most of the killers you've placed in "Hard/Hardest" are in fact quite easy. Legion, Myers, Ghostface's powers are honestly braindead and will give you great value during the first hour of trying them. You need a good understanding of chases, but that's the case for every killer except Nurse, so I don't know why we would put these specific ones in "Hard" or "Hardest". Then you have killers like Clown or Trapper who require definitely more knowledge to utilize their power correctly, but at the same time you'll still be able to do the right thing in 90% cases by just doing the straightforward thing, their power is not particularly difficult to understand, nor execute.
For me, the only killer I consider "Hard", is Billy. His power gives barely any value without practice, and it's still difficult to execute even once you know what to do. But disclaimer, I haven't tried every killer.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511477#Comment_3511477
What would prevent people to sweat in Casual Matches?
Nothing, there will always be people who queue for casual, and then play in a very sweaty way. But there are also people who seek a competitive experience, and don't want to be matched against casuals. Like all those streamers going for win-streaks. If these people queued for ranked, it would contribute to make the casual queue less sweaty, at least a little.
Let me give you an example. Yesterday I tried a new killer. But for some reason my MMR is super low and I'm getting matched against babies (I don't know why maybe because I bought the killer a long time ago). I've played 10 matches, all stomps at 5 gens. This is not fun for the survivors or for me: I want to play sweaty against other sweaty players, and they want to play non-sweaty against non-sweaty killers. Yet, neither of us can do anything about it except play the match until MMR adjusts. If there was a ranked queue, I could at least speed-up the process.
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Yeah many survivors are literal douches. Once, I even got teabagged by the person I gave hatch to. I don't have any explanation, I think some just have such a low IQ that they don't even realize that you played nice.
However, most of my survivors are not like this, they behave cute in-game or in chat, sometimes give me their item. Which leads me to often give hatch.
From my experience killer players are A LOT more toxic than survivors, and I'd say the killer role also has a lot more potential to be toxic with things like slugging/3-gen merchants etc. It doesn't excuse the toxicity on either side, though.
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We got it, the game is so hard for killers that you can't even find a screenshot where you lose. thanks for making the thread
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Claudette is literally faster than the killer at 4:23 and 6:23, and obvious wallhacks at TL walls despite constantly running into stuff -> cheater 100%
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Thanks for making this topic OP. We understand that the mafia has held you hostage and will shoot if you dare missing a pip in the video game Dead By Daylight. Make sure to play the game 24/7 and gather enough virtual points, the CIA will soon come to your rescue and give a $1,000,000 payment as a reward for your effort.
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@catslayer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3507442#Comment_3507442
true; i don't necessarily mean that you have to "communicate" with others for the game to turn out perfect, i mean't as in having at least one player who knows how to play normally. i'll try this method, but it's still a bit awkward adding someone "out of nowhere" after a match for some reason
I'd say half of my DBD friends are people who sent me random invites after a game, because we've had a nice interaction together. Like a flashlight save or I gave them hatch as killer, etc. I found it weird at first but then I took the habit of doing it, too. If you find someone who you'd like to play with, just add them after the game, you don't really have anything to lose and I'd say they accept more than 50% of the time.
I wouldn't recommend using official forums/discords for DBD. I've done it for previous games before, the issue is that there's always a mismatch, either the ping is too high, or we end up not playing at the same schedule, or the skill difference is too big. While if you add someone after a match you usually know what to expect from them.
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You don't absolutely need comms, the main reason to get a SWF is primarily to avoid the horrible matchmaking, that alone will already improve your survivor games drastically. Getting even one reliable teammate makes a tremendous difference compared to solo, as there are many situations where the game forces you to have 2 competent people that know what they're supposed to do (without having to be in comms). For example to hook saves in endgame, or bodyblock if one of you is getting tunneled etc. So maybe try inviting people at first without comms, you'll be surprised how much it will improve your games.
As for how to find people to invite, I just tend to add good/altruistic players when I play surv or killer (on Steam), so now I have 10+ people online permanently. I send them in-game invites when I launch the game and usually I have a 2-3 people group. I don't know any of them personally but I usually get good matches.
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Just give a "Give Up" button to survivors, say after 1 minute of being slugged. This also has the benefit of fixing most of the stupid hatch scenarios.
I've seen people suggest that for the last SEVEN YEARS, no exaggeration. You can find reddit threads from 2016 pointing out the exact same problem as OP and the exact same solution. My guess is that we'll have it by 2030
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DBD is not the most bugged game I've seen, but I'm impressed how often the updates break stuff. And especially, how often things that break are completely unrelated with the update changelog, like there is someone in the dev team who changes code at random every update.
I played Legion yesterday, in one instance I was in Frenzy and I did not get killer instinct on any survivor. I had to cancel the frenzy and then it worked fine again.
Next game I played with Hex:Pentimento and after survivors broke the rekindled totems, I saw the aura of the broken rekindled totems in white (which is not normal). So I had to keep track of which totem was a regular broken totem and which one was a broken rekindled totem (both were white).
Neither Legion or Pentimento received any change, so why do they suddenly break?
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Good. Now add a 150ms ping limit for killer and maybe I will consider attempting vaults again
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You might have missed an edit I made to the post later so just rewriting it now;
Grades like Ash, Silver etc. don't mean anything about your skill. There's no ranked mode anymore, it has been reworked a few years ago so don't make any assumption based on grades, they are basically just representative of playtime. (More precisely, they are based on emblems, but you'll always end up Iridescent each season if you play a lot)
It's very possible that you're already at top MMR even when the game displays you're Ash 4 (ie. you're facing the best survivors) and inversely, somebody can be Iri 1 and be at the lowest MMR (face baby players). The MMR and grade systems have nothing in common.
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Grades mean nothing about skill. There's no ranked mode anymore, it has been reworked a few years ago and now grades like Ash, Silver etc. are roughly representative of playtime.
Regarding the "difficulty" of the game, I'd say 2 things have changed: 1) Players have got better at the game and 2) The player count has decreased, so less casual players on average, and more sweaty players, on both sides.
It's true that killer is indeed the easiest it's ever been in terms of balance (at least based on public statistics), but matches feel tougher than 1-2 years ago, because of the factors above. Sadly there's not much to do about it except playing during event or early evening, when most casuals boot up the game.
Is it only the killer experience that sucks, or is your survivor experience much harder than before as well? The latter would be my expectation.
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She's become another example of braindead and unfair design, where the things needed to counter her are much more difficult than what the killer needs to do to play her.
She can literally spam the teleport button and still win against the majority of players now. The "grab a tape at start" thing works if every single player does it, but in soloQ you'll often have a teammate that messes up, so you end up 3v1 after 2 minutes, without having seen the killer once. Great design BHVR!
I think her killrate must be the highest it's ever been. The worst is on indoor maps, it's literally impossible to beat her there. You have to traverse the map to get TVs, but at the same time you keep getting hit at random corners if you try. I think everyone who has faced stealth killers on RPD knows how much these maps are a pain, but now imagine that the killer in question keeps teleporting every 15 sec at different locations, while at the same time having a power that forces survivors to traverse the map...
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@UnavailableName said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498758#Comment_3498758
1. Here is a screenshot of my stream record for yesterday, nothing has been deleted in-between the two streams, i was just eating. It is 8 games in a row, 8 escapes, 100% escape rate. You can add 2 unexisting games if you want and think i would have lost them, anyway it would still be a 80% escape rate. The 3 extra minutes were testing OBS to see how it goes.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MCV3ABODMGHT/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DZW6K3JQA8Z1/image.png
2. For the last 20 games i have played, i have died 3 or 4 times, it is a 75/80% escape rate. Believe it or not, that's my result in soloQ. Also, i have a life and i do not play 10 to 15 games in a row without pause even when playing with my SWFs, believe or not once again, some ppl have a life outside of DbD 😘
3. "the way i play" as you say is the most effective way to play the game at high MMR. To win at that level, there is no place for the shiny fancy greedy looping where you blind the killer at every pallets and when you greed the hell out of a loop for entertainment, taking the risk to get hit. I play safely, a mix of stealth/strong safe loop/hold W gameplay and i sit on the good gens (solo-gening + preventing 3 gens situations).
4. Looping a Spirit for 1 minute while injured and without using a single pallet
Looping a Wesker for 1m30 while being injured at the end of the trial (less pallets left)
Looping a Nemesis for 1 minute while being injured at the end of the trial (less pallets left)
Do gens when not in chase
Perfectly use checkspots everywhere on the map
Perfectly time the stealth gameplay
Know when to drop or save pallets
Perfectly know all timing to the point i know if i can reach a loop and when i can change the loop i'm in
Many great mindgames and good decision making in the games i have played
--> Random survivor player from the forum that barely escape in soloQ : "the way you play is terrible, you are a liar"
5. if you think the way i play is bad, you should re-think how effective is the way you play the game cause if your escape rate is under 50% in soloQ, the problem is on your side and you clearly have skill/mindgame/poor decision making issues. In the chases listed above, the reality is that you would have fallen in 20 seconds as 90% of the playerbase
6. the survivor player that posted his videos above me play exactly as i play, using checkspots extensively. He is more greedy cause he wants to do cool videos on Youtube but off-recording, if he plays for the win, i'm pretty sure he is less greedy.
7. you are now checking on youtube what a checkspot is cause you have no idea of what it is
It is insane that after all the content i have provided you still believe i'm lying. This shows 3 things about yourself :
- you are immature thinking a 35 years old guy has nothing better to do than lying about a video game
- you might be the kind of person that lies a lot, that is why you think everyone else would behave like you
- you are delusional regarding your real skill level and you believe that you are way stronger than what you actually are
I have proved enough here, you are an entilted player, refusing to accept the plain truth, you are not as good as you think and some ppl are way better. If you are loosing most of your games in soloQ, you can blame your teammates or the matchmaking, you are obviously the weak link cause if you were better, you would carry the game, at least by taking chases.
We've told you multiple times that screenshots prove nothing.
Anyway, regarding your claim that "This is high MMR gameplay", let's examine how your killers play.
The spirit that you "looped for 1 minute", apparently doesn't know how to pick a survivor at a window:
https://clips.twitch.tv/FuriousCrepuscularQueleaPartyTime-bUibu3MHe1o6B-GEWhile we're at it, let's also look at the hook stages in this clip.
We're at 2 gens, and that spirit has exactly 4 hooks on 4 different survivors.
I think anybody who plays soloQ can tell you, killers like this are rare. Definitely not the majority of your games. That Spirit is not trying to win, she's trying to be the nicest killer in DBD.
And yet, almost every single of your killers played like this. Out of 8 games, 7 featured no tunneling at all, with killers unexplainably dropping chases and handicapping themselves to hook every single survivor, not killing anyone before 5-8 hooks.
Game 7 was the only one that featured any sort of tunneling and that wasn't hardcore tunneling at 5 gens.
None of the games featured camping.
I don't know if your streak is legit or not, but regardless, this was extremely lucky matchmaking, and you know it very well, that's why you're so defensive about recording it again. You won't be able to sustain games like this on an extended period of time.
10 games in a row would be like 2-3 hours of streaming, that's too much to ask? For someone who says that "you have a life outside of DBD" you sure like spending a lot of time on these forums.
The first thing I requested in this thread was that when you record the streak you keep the whole VOD, and you must record at least 10-15 games, I asked for that before you even started streaming.
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@UnavailableName said:
Guys, as screenshots mean nothing for you all and as many called me a liar, i have recorded (streamed actually) all my trials of the end of this afternoon and evening.
This morning i have played 4 trials, escaped all 4 of them.
High skill - no talking - soloQ :( - Twitch
High skill - no talking - soloQ :( - Twitch
1st is soloQ only.
2nd is some soloQ and then duoQ.
Nothing fancy, there are some good chases, some trials without any chase at all or pretty much. This is the high MMR experience.
I know you will say those killers are terrible but they all play META, for those i could see the playtime they all had between 1500h and 3000h.
Same for the survivors i was matched with.
Whatever, enjoy :)
Appreciate the effort, we're getting somewhere.
But there are still massive holes in your VODs, so we don't know what happened in between / if you deleted some games. How do we know you didn't just discard the games where you lost?
I'll be honest I highly doubt you can get 50% escape rate with the way you're playing, and I still suspect something fishy. 4 wins in a row would already be nice, but lucky streaks happen. Next time tell us in the thread when you start to stream, so we can check afterwards that you didn't delete VODs (or PM me then I'll confirm in the thread that you didn't cheat). Ideally record like ~10 games in a row, if that's not unreasonable.
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The main problem is that the format is a Best of ONE. Eternal getting a penalty for breaking rules is fair. In a normal tournament, the admin would have given 1 point to the other team as a penalty but the match would continue and this wouldn't cost Eternal the match. But here's there's only one round so the admin has no choice but to give the win to the opponents.
Huge fuckup by the admin team. While rules are rules, this ridicules the tournament. This also illustrates why you don't do Single-Elimination. It is even more ridiculous that Eternal won basically 4-0.
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@UnavailableName said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496765#Comment_3496765
Be careful, most players here will call you a liar, ask you to record your next 500 trials to prove it cause for them, an ER above 3% in soloQ is impossible.
Nobody asks you to record 500 games.... but record AT LEAST a few to prove this is not bs. Right now this thread is just bait. 0 evidence of anything you claimed but random screenshots. And what are you claiming even? Seems like you still lost a bunch of matches.
Why can't you install OBS and record it? This is your thread. Seems like a lot of people here are interested to see your escapes.
Me personally, I'd love to see your solo streaks. I hope you're motivated. Funny coincidence, AlbyAround started a soloQ streak series this week, with Sole Survivor etc. The games were so bad, not only he kept losing the streak at 2-3, but the last game made him so angry that he decided to cancel the series entirely (it featured 2 teammates DC'ing at 5 gens and the last one cooperating with the killer). He also deleted some of the VODs because it was "unfun and unwatchable". The rest of the night he was talking about TCM...
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So, you managed to escape 4 times in a whole evening? That is not impressive at all. You only posted 5 screenshots. what were the results of the other games? I have a hard time believing you only played 5 games in a whole evening, especilaly with a SWF. Since you didn't share them, it could very well be that you lost 10 other games that night.
When I went for killer streaks, I would record 15+ wins per day, and as many screenshots. That you shared only five, makes me believe you chery-picked the best games. If you want to prove anything, record the whole VOD, and aim for 5- or 10-winstreaks otherwise it could have been a lucky night.
And finally, 3-man SWF is not representative of the survivor role, as most people play solo. You say the game is "survivor" sided not "SWF" sided, so show us some of your solo survivor gameplay please, I'd love to see your results.
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@appleas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487495#Comment_3487495
Removing the DC penalty means the amount of people DC-ing will increase because there is no punishment to DC and no incentive to not DC. In the long term, this will mess with the data gathered from trials which may lead to more balance mistakes from the devs because there is a bot in every other game.
People getting annoyed at the DC penalty works both ways, a Survivor can also get annoyed at the Killer DC-ing because they will have to spend more time waiting for another game or might even depip at higher ranks because the game did not go on long enough.
Maybe instead of trying to argue the validity of DC penalties with shallow points, you could think of the long term advantages and disadvantages removing the penalties would have on everyone?
You still lose all BPs when leaving, and then you have to sit 5 min again in queue. That alone is already a big penalty, and normally enough to have the vast majority of people not DC, at least that's what we see in most other multiplayer games. The fact DBD has such a massive problem with DCs is not a problem of the penalty being too low/too harsh, but the consequence of poor game design. DC penalties can already be circumvented by suiciding on hook anyway.
And yes I'm all for killers DC'ing for free, if someone is having such a bad game that they're even willing to sacrifice all BPs to get out of the match, then they should leave ASAP. The goal of a game is to have all players enjoy it together, not to have someone get humiliated. I think that if killers DC'd more often it would naturally solve a lot of problems with bully SWFs etc.
The advantages/drawbacks are known already. We just can't know if the cons will outweigh the pros, and I doubt anyone can tell without experimenting it. But there have already been periods of times without DC penalties, and the quality of matches felt better to me, yes you'd be in 3v1 more often because someone tantrum'd. And queues were longer for survivor. But the actual survivor gameplay felt good because killers were no longer camping/tunneling every game.
It's true that knight mains or people who have 90 pages of -reps would no longer be able to play with human players, which would make this forum very sad. But is it really a problem?
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How ironical, the same forum crowd who regularly explains us how facecamping/slugging are valid strategies and "Your fun isn't my responsibility", is now also claiming that DC penalties are very important and BHVR must do everything in their power to prevent survivors from dodging their matches. Of course we understand that it's important for you, that the person who gets facecamped for 2 minutes is a real player and not a bot. But don't worry I'm sure you will "adapt" and find a more healthy playstyle after 10 games of facing bots.
Also good to know that "lobby shopping" is apparently a big problem when survivors do it, meanwhile killers were able to do it for years, why did I not see you guys complain before?
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This is DBD in 2023. What you have shared in your screenshots has not only become a normal part of the game, but it keeps getting worse after each update for some reason.
Before you could face a killer with 300ms and the game thought this was a totally normal way for someone to play the game. But now, you can also get matched on a server that automatically adds 300 ms to everyone! Fun guaranteed. If that happens you better pre-drop every single pallet on the map because the game favors what's on the killer's screen. I have fiber with 20 ms, and I'm getting hit by things way worse than what you shared.
I have yet to find a game where lagging gives you a more ridiculous advantage than DBD. Funnily enough, using a VPN is considered cheating as it gives you an unfair advantage - which makes sense - but having a naturally terrible connection is totally okay, despite it giving the exact same advantage. The game won't even show you the killer's ping in 2023 so you have to guess by taking hits in-game. When I move to the countryside I can already feel my survivors play way more sluggish and miscalculate pallet distances way more than usual, and I only have about ~100 ms. I think anything above 150 ms is not even worth playing. Skill issue you say? Nope. Once I played a game as killer, I hit a guy twice in a row within 20 sec, he pallet stunned me twice, but still got hit both times. Then he instant suicided on hook. Then I saw in his profile, that he was the finalist of a 1v1 chase tournament. So he could last 2 minutes against the best killer in the world but couldn't last 20 sec against my ######### connection.
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If you think it's that OP then equip Made for this and do it as survivor?
I'll challenge you to record ONE clip where you "loop a killer on a rock for 40 sec"
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I turn her away too. I don't like jumpscares.
Initially you could use the trick to prevent the jumpscare completely, but the devs patched this out, which is baffling... there are better ways to spend dev time than to patch this kind of useless bugs, especially when it was the only thing to prevent people from being uncomfortable.
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@Uxoxe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3474375#Comment_3474375
The 60% plus kill-rate is still the same. You can keep an excel spreadsheet and see it is.
Also, SBMM is programmed to keep a 60% kill-rate. Nerfs and buffs don't affect something programmed into the games match-making system.
Saiph is correct.
Where did you see that SBMM is programmed towards 60% winrate? To my knowledge, the devs have never said that.
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3474273#Comment_3474273
Don't tell others to practice to get better at a certain killer they choose to play, ok.
Well thanks for your advice.
That's not at all what I meant. I said that you should not play with the goal of seeking revenge. Practicing because you like the game is perfectly fine. But practicing with the hope that you can ultimately be strong enough to beat bullies in DBD, is a super inefficient use of your time. You'd be competing with people whose entire life goal is to make others waste their time. And even if you end up beating them, then what? The game will be forgotten after 5 minutes, and then they'll go bully someone else.
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@I_am_Negan said:
You mean DC'ing?
Yes you'll get a time out for a couple minutes to start and the time goes up the more you DC.
It's how the the player-base is toxic killers create these toxic groups
and these toxic groups create toxic killers. Endless cycle
Trapper might not be for you try Wraith.
Wraith is who I used when I started playing until Spirit came out.
Keep practicing and learning from your mistakes, sooner then later you'll be able to deal with theses type of groups.
I would really not advise people to "try to get better and eventually you'll be able to deal with this kind of groups". That's very unlikely to be true for most people unless they invest thousands of hours into the game. Ultimately, you'll always end up facing players that are way better than you, and whether these guys decide to be toxic after they win is out of your control. In fact, getting better will increase your MMR and make it maybe even more likely to run into 4-man squads, so it might make the situation even worse. You should aim at becoming better at the game because you like the game, not because you want to seek revenge against some guys over the Internet. Spending 1000 hours for that is not worth it I'm sure OP has much better use of this time.
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This is not a perk/playstyle issue, this is a matchmaking issue. It seems you went against a good 4-man SWF + map offering while being still fairly new yourself, believe it or not these perks are not meta even on Eyrie, and you would have lost just as hard if they were playing normally.
Unfortunately, there's not much you can do about the game matching you against better players, this will always happen from time to time, so just play the game normally and try to get BPs. That said, if you think these players were trying to intentionally be toxic and it annoys you then I would say the whole situation becomes different. In that case a DC is perfectly justified imo. It's a shame that it's the only thing you can do but the penalty is very light (1 minute) and unfortunately the game tries very hard to protect its most toxic players so there likely won't be any other solution soon. Though I would be careful with labelling people as toxic too early since the definition changes a lot depending on who you ask to. Even from your perspective these guys might be bullies but in reality they could just be a bunch of friends trying to laugh at the game and not at you.
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
It does seem like a lot of killer strategies have been pretty much removed or greatly discouraged (gen defense, hook defense, etc) which I think can be fine if there has been buffs to encourage other strategies (make hexes more feasible, making killers able to track more effectively naturally, able to chase more effectively naturally, etc) but I haven't seen a whole lot designed to buff those areas or to make them a greater possibility besides "well you cant really defend hooks or gens now".
Anyone else kinda want more playstyles encouraged directly rather than indirectly?
Can you elaborate what you mean by "hook defense"?
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Bloodpoints as survivor work in a very funny way. The game rewards you for doing excessively useless things or playing unoptimally like doing gens with 3/4 people, and in contrast gives you little for things that actively contribute to the win. If you're getting tunneled from the start, then you're also guaranteed to be bottom score regardless of how good you performed because the chase category maxes at 10k, so you can physically not get more than 10k-15k total unless you escape.
Coop actions give absurdly high bonuses, if you do a gen with 2 teammates, you'll get like 5000 BPs. Doing the same gen alone will give you only 1250, despite taking 2.5x more time. In general, and despite being your main objective, gens are the least rewarding thing in the game. Repairing a gen gives 13 BP/s while for example opening a gate gives 60/s, healing gives 30/s, and even opening a chest gives 25/s. So you have to choose what's more important, gaining BPs or not throwing the game. Coop bonus also works for healing, so it's better to wait until you can be 2 people to heal the injured person, even though that makes no sense.
Finally, cleansing a totem (even a dull one) gives you more points in "boldness" category than being in a chase. So the next time you're getting chased and see your Meg doing a useless totem, the game thinks they are contributing more than you.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3473425#Comment_3473425
It's pretty much one of two main arguments that Survivor mains or low MMR killer players use along with ''official'' kill rate chart numbers. They don't consider any secondary factors, including location zone, time zone and basic human factor. Trying to maintain the debate against such argument is extremely tedious process, on par to trying to convince the flat earth believer what the real shape our planet does have.
You literally ignored the official kill rates shared by the devs. Then you ignored streamer gameplay which show the same killrates and ridiculous winstreaks, while it's clear that these streamers struggle much harder to do the same thing as survivor. Then when I proposed to share my own winstreaks on killer you also ignored that, and now conclude with a message of pure ad hominem.
Who is the flat earther here?
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@robrob909 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3473566#Comment_3473566
You’re comparing someone who competes in tourneys (momo) with casuals. Yes mmr is broken you don’t consistently get people your level. Rarely people your level are playing against a comp team. You know they got things to do like practice. It doesn’t work the same way as killer. Your stats are including tunneling camping the very things you seem to think are not needed cause killer is so strong yet every killer has to resort to them and so will you. I look forward to your tunneling and proving my point. Getting a 1k streak def isn’t easy but it’s impossible without tunneling I can tell you that 100%
Oh so we already went from "try to do a streak as killer" to "try to do a streak without tunneling", for no apparent reason. Tunneling invalidates streaks now? As I said no point even bothering to record since you'll dismiss it for arbitrary reasons.
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@robrob909 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3473536#Comment_3473536
Talk to me when he has a comp win streak. Your argument is weak. 700 or more of his games came from eruption era prob the strongest killer has been. All you would need to do is play an average killer and link your vod very easy to do. You don’t need to upload anything stream it link the vod easy.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3473536#Comment_3473536
Love it. Everything is so easy with you. Streaming is so easy, just link the VOD bro. Getting a 1000 winstreak is so easy just equip Eruption.
You know what I'll stream a 10 winstreak during the week, even though it makes my ######### laptop run at 30 fps. Meanwhile you will stream a 10 escape streak as survivor since apparently everything is so easy for you (I hope you already have OBS fully setup'd otherwise prepare a good afternoon).
The "comp win streak" comment is hilarious. Someone has a 1100 winstreak and you manage to even dismiss that. It's true that killer is hard because you're always at risk of facing Team Eternal and then maybe you'll lose the game. My bad for not considering that OP is a tournament player.
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@Exxodus21 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472256#Comment_3472256
The 60% number contains matches where survivors suicide on hook which almost always ends in the other 3 survivors dying as well unless one gets the hatch. So 60% is artificially high.
iirc the kill rate at high mmr, or maybe it was when a swf was invovled, was around 40% - 45%
The 60% number also contains hatch which has 1/2 chance of giving an escape to the last survivor for free. You could have your whole team die at 5 gens and get slugged then have the hatch spawn below you still resulting in an escape. So the killrates are artificially lower due to hatch, approximately by 25% / 2 = 12.5%. In reality the adjusted killrate would be 72.5%. See I can do the same.
The kill rate at high MMR was not 40% or 45%, no. It was 61%, shared by the devs themselves.
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@robrob909 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3473475#Comment_3473475
Again terrible comparison if the streamer is playing solo q there are a number of variables. Last time I saw Momo play in a comp match he had 1 kill and was lucky to get that. You can always tell who’s a survivor main by the way they talk. They bring out all the xyz streamer and use insane examples like nurse and blight win streaks. Like u said u have no hours on killer so why not go play killer and come back when your opinion is coming from a place of personal knowledge. Let us see your insane win streak on every killer 🤡
Momo has a winstreak on most killers in the game not just Blight. Otz has a 50-winstreak with every killer in the game, and yes he's better than most players but he did it with no offering and no perks so there is a lot of margin. By using perks and exploiting things like map offerings, VPN and lobby dodging average players can easily do winstreaks too. As said I reached 30+ with Nurse (don't remember if it was 36 or 46).
I then reached 10+ with Spirit, Trapper, Clown, Trickster, Huntress and Artist.
Not worth uploading any of these because it's literally wasted effort, it will take me 2 hours and then you'll immediatly dismiss it because either the killer I used was too strong, or add-ons were too strong, or the survivors did not use enough BNPs, or they weren't enough SWFs, or whatever. You deny the official killrates of 60% but when somebody gives any other sort of evidence you say they are a survivor main lol. Devs must be so survivor biased since it's them who published the killrates.
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@robrob909 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3473355#Comment_3473355
Gotta love how killer is easy because streamer xyz with 5k-10k hours gets a 3k,4k. Yes let’s all quit our jobs stop living our lives and play dbd all day long to prove your point. I have less then 1k hours and go up against 3k-5k hours nearly every game. So you’re tellling me that’s fair as someone casually playing the game. Very flawed logic
How weird though when these same streamers play survivor suddenly they barely even escape 50% of the time. By your logic since the game is so skill-based then we should see plenty of survivors with a consistent ~80% winrate too, right? The survivor playerbase is 4x larger than killer, so statistically, you should have no trouble finding several of them, can you even name one? Momo is at 1000-winstreak right now, SupaAlf at 100+, but how weird, nobody is even attempting a streak as survivor?
And the neat part, you don't need to have 5k hours to achieve these results. You just need to play killer and tunnel the f*ck out of every game. I have ~200 hours at killer and my killrate is above 80%. The first time I picked Nurse I won 30+ games in a row.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472246#Comment_3472246
My point is that there's no sense in bringing killer kill rate or win streak as an argument for balance when there are so many factors that can contribute to those numbers yet are completely ignored.
I don't know what kind of streamers you do watch that 4k every game. Must be some gifted pro players out there. The ones I used to watch would get from 0k to 4k and 0e to 4e respectively during the course of the entire stream session.
Sure, just from last night:
D3AD_plays https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1863439587 4 hour stream, every game 3K+ except one (2K). Killrate likely around 85%.
Hens333 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1861363179 3 hour stream, every game 3K+ except two (both 2K). Killrate likely around 80%.
Otzdarva https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1863248408 5 hour stream. Lost 2 matches (1K). Killrate is 70% (I did the math). Plays with random perks.
Note that I'm not even talking about pro players or those on a ridiculous winstreak like SupaAlf and Momo7th, those would very likely all be above 85%. And the only reason their killrate is 'only" 85% is because they don't sweat for hatch.
And finally, you don't even need to watch killer players. You can literally, watch survivor mains, who warm up as killer.
Just from last night:
Skermz: 4K, 3K, 4K, 3K (killrate 87.5%) https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1863708637
Alby: 4K, 2K, 3K (killrate 75%). https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1862508562
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@appleas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472183#Comment_3472183
While BHVR isn’t the best at sharing interpreted data, I would be in favor of looking at recent up to date numbers instead of dropping 60% casually. Given how much changes the game has undergone such as the addition of the Survivor HUD, the rise and fall of the gen kick meta, dead hard nerf and heal changes, the Kill rates not fluctuating much would be a surprise.
Your thoughts on streamers getting decimated by Killers may have some weight, but streamers don’t make up the entire playerbase.
I'm "dropping" the number 60% because it is the latest and most reasonable number that we have, once BHVR gives us a new numbers I'll say the new one. Personally I don't believe this number makes any sort of sense, there is MMR in this game so the killrate should be 50% - the fact it's not is already an absurdity by itself. It's possible that the game has become so easy that MMR can't even achieve 50% anymore, or it's possible that BHVR data is completely nonsensical and cannot be trusted at all (wouldn't surprise me given that Nightlight killrates have almost always been at ~50% regardless of patch, which makes much more sense).
But the point is, this number was recently at the highest it's ever been, and we're in the middle of an event, so killer gameplay is likely the easiest it's ever been. If OP finds the game hard now, they might as well stop playing already because it's going to be much, much worse in 2 months when the playerbase will drop by 50%.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472183#Comment_3472183
Potato or chill streamers, people who suicide on hook for whatever reason, trolls, people who refuse to do totems and die to noed, people who are left to die by griefers and so on.
You still do wonder how the kill rate is 60% on average?
What is your point? apparently the whole survivor playerbase is so bad at the game, and yet killers need to be buffed even more? How easy do you want this game to be? We are already talking of players getting HUNDREDS of wins in a row.
You are correct, 60% is an average. Personally when I play killer I win 80% or more, which is still pretty mediocre compared to what I see on Twitch (including survivor streamers who are so bad at the game but weirdly enough when they play killer to warmup suddenly they 4k every game).
The first time I played Nurse, I won 46 games in a row. Then I posted the VODs here to show that balance is a joke, and the first reply I got was a PH main saying how bad I was for getting only 46 wins because he got 100+.
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@appleas said:
Lol people still quoting 60% from almost a year ago.
At this point that number is just a meme number.
To OP
I suggest not playing Killer if you aren’t having a fun time. You decide what your definition of fun is, be it using meme builds and getting 0-1 kills or meta strats and sweating for 3-4 kills. Don’t let others gaslight you into deciding what’s fun. Some people may have a different Killer experience from you, but region/time that you play/Killers that you like will influence the experience that you have.
If you don’t like Killer already, don’t play the role for your mental health. This game isn’t worth it. You deserve better.
Funny, because last year I was quoting killrates of 50% and people like you were telling me "there's no way the killrates are that high, these stats are outdated". Then the official killrates were revealed and were at 60%, lol.
But keep being delusional I guess... There are dozens of streamers routinely getting 10+ or even 100+ winstreaks, one Blight player is at 1000+ right now. How weird they never face the OP survivors you guys keep complaining about on these forums. How weird that when these streamers switch to survivor, they suddenly get spanked by killers who have 1/50th of their hours, how weird, almost like killer is ez mode.
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The killrates are at 60%, the highest it's ever been, and we're in the middle of an event with tons of casual players.
So no, if you want to chill as killer, you can. It's literally the best time ever.
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To be fair the BP bonus was stupid. You could spend 30 sec on a generator in coop and get as many bloodpoints as someone who did 2 entire gens by themselves. And because the bonus is included in the scoreboard you'll be almost always top score without doing anything, just because you equipped a perk.
Though I wish they would increase overall BPs for generators in compensation. Especially solo'ing gens. Currently doing gens solo gives the least amount of BPs despite it being the optimal way to play.
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Skull Merchant is such a giant red flag, it's very unrealistic to expect a fair game. It's just basic psychology. No reasonable person likes this killer, on both sides. So if you're facing someone who picks her, especially during anniversary, then you're most likely against a maniac. The SM player either plans to ruin your day or hold you hostage. There's a reason why your teammate DC'd
(btw please don't unhook in a 3v1 your teammate almost certainly wanted to get out)
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In July 2022 I sampled random solo queue streams on Twitch and the average solo queue escape rate seemed to be around ~30%. This is my experience in solo as well. Although keep in mind, 30% average can mean you win 5/10 matches one day (50%), and then you lose 9 matches out of 10 the next day (10%).
I do not believe the official killrate of 60%, at least not for the vast majority of players. It has become comical that simple challenges like "escape 2 times with perk XYZ" or even "open the exit gates" have become so tedious that we regularly see people complain about them on the forum. I'm frustrated about solo queue and I don't even play to win, I can't imagine how it must be for people who actually try, lol.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/381442/rant
Survivor is a team game, meaning your team will cost you the game. You have to accept that if you play survivor.
A team game does not "mean your team will cost you the game". I know DBD recently has become more of a 1v1 with 3 spectators, instead of a 4v1, but that's not how team games are supposed to work.
In other team games like Overwatch, you are at a severe disadvantage if your team sucks, but put the best player on the planet against randoms they would still be able to carry a bad team and win. These games also have voice chat or at least a basic communication wheel to facilitate teamwork between strangers.
DBD does not have that. You could be the best looper in the world and you would still lose half of the time because the game expects you to literally do telepathy.