Ryuhi
Ryuhi
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@DoritoHead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3160162#Comment_3160162
No, because a survivor getting downed and hooked is influenced by the killer’s skill.
Using Blast Mine is like fishing. You press the button, wait, and hope for the best. I’m not comparing BBQ to Blast Mine, instead I’m trying to contrast them. If you want a comparison, I think Dragon’s Grip would be the best thing to compare it to.
Are you claiming survivors have zero agency in chase? Or are you not aware that time is extremely relative in this game, and delays can completely change things? Or even that a killer can down a survivor and then have their hook denied through multiple means? Enough of this "only i'm allowed to, and here's a list of reasons why" stuff, both sides have the ability to prevent perk activation/usage/impact from the other, that isn't anything that hasn't plagued both sides for years.
If your comparison point is dragon's grip you're focusing way too hard on the fact it involves kicking a gen and setting a trap than you are the literally anything else.
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@HelloYou said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3160022#Comment_3160022
Showed the time and the difference is in minutes. but maybe you're right. Shame i don't have multiple Computers 😅.
I vividly remember something about the Rating decreasing due to lack of gameplay, not sure if it was from dev livestream or from a note, but either way it shouldn't matter since there is no gained MM Rating to decay to begin with.
require some games to gather data to put you at the right rating level, but they still have a base rating value to start from that is assigned by default. and since they were inactive before the introduction of the MM Ratings, then they are on the same boat ( waiting for data, base rating value ) so the system should put them in the same pool.
The only justification i see right now, is the few minutes difference between opening each account.
Even multiple computers wouldn't necessarily matter, as calculations like this are generally done in snapshots: They take a single moment in time and calculate all their variables simultaneously, instead of giving them time to change the formula while calculating. No idea how they have it set up, but it could only be checking every 5 minutes, checking as soon as the menu loads and then having updates every time the matchmaking queue is pinged by starting the search part of the lobby, etc.
They've also made it very clear that MMR decay is not in their system, but they were very wishy washy on how it would work on the killer side. From independent MMR per killer to overall for the role to some weird amalgamation of the two, the answer has seemed to change both from official sources and what people have uncovered themselves. I think it currently is based on overall killer MMR with a minor adjustment based on killer specific results, but without access to the math I couldn't tell you for certain. Most versions of how they have described this would give more variation than you might think, especially reactively.
As for the same pool, again, you're assuming the pool doesn't change every few minutes, or even more frequently than that. The matchmaking has always used an expansion of acceptable variables over time, so that players with poor matchmaking potential at any given time get thrown into presumably acceptable matches if they have to wait too long. Think of it like the conditions of the match expanding over time the longer you have to wait. That in itself can also throw off your testing attempts since there might be people changing the results of potential matches each time.
My theory on the specifics is that it is taking all of your matchmaking calculations at the time of the menu loading (maybe even when it runs a ton of checks as the menu loads, matches end, etc) and then assigning the incentive based on a snapshot of how matchmaking is at the moment of calculation. I havent seen it update automatically in any interval on the menu, so I can't speak for if/when/how often it reapplies this check. It then keeps that incentive value until it is forced to purge or update it, and stores the variable to apply the bonus after the match when BP are rewarded.
Granted they could have always just given us bonuses based on emblems and rewarded good play instead, or even on top of this system. But i can absolutely see how people can find it all confusing or random without understanding how any of it works. Even everything i formulated is operating under the assumption that the math lines up with the info that has been provided, and understanding of common applications.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159909#Comment_3159909
You don't have to hook 3 people in order to get BBQ to proc, only for someone to hide in a locker and deny it.
That's basically what Blastmine is now. Do two thirds of an entire gen so you can maybe stun a killer for 2-3 seconds if he decides to kick the gen instead of look for the person who's hiding around there, otherwise you need to do another 2-3rds for another chance.
I don't know why they didn't bring the gen progress requirement down. Blast Mine was never strong, just annoying.
You need to complete 5 gens, that number doesn't change unless the EGC starts and/or hatch spawns. You need to hook survivors 4-12 times to complete your objective of killing all 4. not only are they not even, one isn't even variable while the other is (unless you start to add in gens done by other players, but that only decreases your burden.) Not only that, but chasing, downing, and hooking survivors is a lot more work and interaction than holding m1 and occasionally pressing space over the course of roughly 60 seconds.
Meanwhile, the 4 seconds you get from the stun (on top of the time they would then spend kicking the gen after) should make you absolutely ghost. If you're not getting value from that you need to learn how stealth works in the game on even a basic level. Obviously some setups on some maps will give more or less room to vanish, but even just corn can cover you at that point. And absolute worst case? hold M1 and gain tons of ground. you don't even need to be present during the stun.
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@DoritoHead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159909#Comment_3159909
Killer perks can be countered, yes. However, their value is dependent on the actions of the killer. To get BBQ value, you need to get hooks. To get Devour Value, you need to meet the conditions to get tokens.
To get Blast Mine value, you have to hope that the killer will decide to kick the gen. You don’t have a say in if the perk itself activates.
That is an extremely pidgeonholed comparison. Using your own logic, the killer can't use BBQ unless a survivor messes up enough to get downed and hooked. Not only are they both common occurrences in normal play, if killers are kicking gens then they are not facecamping a hook which is something you shouldn't exactly want to discourage with game design. If killers got flashbanged every time they kicked a gen, they'd just stop kicking them and facecamp as bubba instead. Especially since Reassurance is apparently so abysmally awful that people refuse to use it :)
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159956#Comment_3159956
The problem with 30 meters of wiretap is that the killer has no way to know it’s active, thus preventing them from mindgaming. 14 meters is close enough to the generator that the killer can disable it by kicking the gen (although that’s not necessarily always a good idea), but 30m isn’t.
With open-handed + kindred, the killer at least knows when it has a possibility to exist, and when it can’t be doing anything. They know if someone is on the hook and where the hook is, and that’s what makes it more fair imo. Wiretap doesn’t do that at all, and can also go on for up to 80 seconds. Barring perks that can temporarily freeze Entity progression, a survivor on the hook that long has already died or gone into stage 2 which isn’t ideal for the survivors anyway.
That said, it should be made more clear in-game that these perks do not work together, because it is admittedly pretty unclear right now.
They also don't really know how to handle veritcality in radii effects, as well as compensating for inhabitable map area. multifloor maps essentially double effective ranges when considering how much of the active area of a map they can cover, while also having to deal with pathing and travel time concerns as well. Honestly all radius based effects need to have this addressed in some way, for both killer and survivor. Its just as much an issue with starstruck nurse as it is with CoH, yet it still gets overlooked in situations like this. It doesn't even necessarily mean that their range shouldn't be able to traverse floors *at all*, just that it can't be a massive bubble in all directions evenly based on its origin point.
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@HelloYou said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159936#Comment_3159936
Survivor ratings is whatever the default is since these accounts never touched that role
Killer rating is most likely the same on all of them since each account had a max of 1-3 matches in an official MM, and that was way before the introduction of the MM Ratings, so i assume they are also default. Also i believe Rating will decrease slowly if the account is inactive to compensate for the lack of gameplay. so correct me if i'm wrong but i believe that it is safe to say these accounts share majority of the variable.
that still doesn't account for the time it would take you to change accounts. Like I said, the variables are enough that its going to be constantly shifting as people log on/off, get into matches, have matches then adjust their own values, etc. And again, this is all for that level of MMR for both sides, with a relative weight applied between the two... Its not supposed to be the same incentive for days at a time or anything. Also MMR doesn't decay (for better or worse) so that wouldn't apply. Not only that, but any type of MM system that uses variables like MMR always requires a few matches to actually gather data for its algorithm, its why games that have seasonal resets in rankings generally have qualifiers for placement in subsequent seasons instead of just forgoing resets altogether or making everyone start at the bottom again each time.
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- Decreased the collision detection for Virulent Bound to 20cm (was 45cm)
- Decreased the Survivor detection for Virulent Bound to 20cm (was 40cm)
Either their original values were stupidly huge, or this is an absolutely massive value adjustment without having a playtesting period that it apparently desperately needed if the first values were that far off in the first place. Half the collision radius on both ends? That would mean its overall collision area to register a hit went from 85 to 40 with the movement data of two entities both having more room for error in the result. If it was just adjusted on wesker's end, it would have fixed the issues for both sides evenly, which is I guess why so many people are saying something in the middle between PTB and now is what would be best. Also definitely explains the rollback issues people keep reporting with it removing hits.
also semi-unrelated but: "Tentatively fixed an issue that caused performance drops for users with large friends lists."
im sorry wat
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@HelloYou said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159635#Comment_3159635
Actually i hv 8. They are not for smurfing or whatever ( i like competing against better players and tryhard, so i never smurf ) , i won dbd keys from giveaways so i activated the keys on different accounts to farm their trading cards. And sometimes i used them for modding and other experiments just in case of a ban risk.
And since today they released the BP incentives, i wanted to see if they are really dependent on region so i installed the game and i logged in to see that the incentives are actually different even when using same IP and technically same MM ratings since these were inactive accounts.
Dubiousness of all of that aside, you do realize that region is only part of the formula, right? It also takes into account things like your individual MMR ratings as both killer and survivor and the amount of matches those provide vs the respective MMR for the opposite? Random numbers to explain further, but say your survivor MMR is 200 and your killer MMR is 50. Its going to be looking for how the matchmaking is for 200 MMR and 50 MMR, then giving a shift depending on which one needs your rating on the respective side more.
Its a multipart formula thats designed specifically to fluctuate as much as its variables do. Of course this is all under the assumption that its working as intended, but seeing it vary between different accounts when its doing separate checks with multiple variables not controlled isn't outside how its designed or how its been explained.
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@DoritoHead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159601#Comment_3159601
Because the value you get from those perks isn’t controlled by the other side.
A large number of killer perks have direct counterplay that can completely nullify them. BBQ alone has half a dozen ways to actively deny it, which is part of why it lost so much of its value when the BP got removed. Hex perks can be deleted before the killer can even run to them in a straight line if spawns are bad enough, there's nothing preventing them from being disabled by the other side before they gain any value.
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NGL probably still not going to use the code simply because I don't want to reward this kind of practice with whatever redemption commission it gives them. You better be giving out auric cells or something if you're going to make people go through advertisements or other companies.
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@Adjatha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159664#Comment_3159664
A 4s stun is more of a head start than you get from Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, or even Decisive Strike. If you arm the gen, take off, and they kick it, boom: you've completely escaped. The killer will NEVER catch back up to you, and in all liklihood, won't even be able to find you. And the onerous task you have to complete to active the power?
Doing gens.
So you get it by doing the very thing you're supposed to be doing in the first place. What a terrible burden this nerf must be.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159667#Comment_3159667
Let me try to be overabundantly clear:
- People complain about gen regression perks.
- Overcharge and Call of Brine are two such perks.
- Both OC and CoB require the killer to kick a gen.
- Survivors have Blast Mine, a perk that punishes killers for kicking gens.
Ergo: Blast Mine is a perk you use to punish killers who rely on kicking gens by letting you get away 100% of the time if they bother to kick the gen.
I'm not COMPARING them. I'm telling you that if people find Gen Regression so onerous, they can run perks that screw over the killer for relying on it. And if your mine doesn't get triggered, then the killer didn't kick your gen, which means: no regression.
TBH people just generally tend to be ignorant to how buffs/nerfs to themselves affect their opponents, and even vice versa. It doesn't matter if the long term consequences end up worse than the short term result, they want the short term result to always be universally better for them personally. You can argue about how stifling killer strategies promotes the lowest common denominator of camping and tunneling all day but some people are either unwilling or incapable of understanding it. Thats not even necessarily the worst thing, but it impacts the weight of their feedback and suggestions quite a bit without them realizing. Honestly probably half the reason that forum is a damn ghost town that doesn't even get "BHVR Read" on full pages of threads.
I completely agree with you that the perk can have DS tier momentum shifts if done at the right times, and that it can punish killers very hard for willingly giving up hook pressure to try to switch over to gen pressure. Some people forget that half of DS' power was forcing killers to make a read on whether you still had it, or even had it at all. The hesitation and risk potential can do just as much as the active effect with perks like that.
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@Pukenplag said:
Can they literally reduce the grind without increasing it in another way?
The shells game is the worst part. It just feels ignorant at best and deceptive at worst. I still have little doubt that these pushbacks are executive decisions that get slapped on after people on the team work things out to be directly positive. Pure speculation of course, but the fact that every positive QoL feels like it needs an asterisk at the end doesn't instill much confidence.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159567#Comment_3159567
I mean...is it really correct E: right now when controller in this game is total ass?
I dunno.
Half the reason it was reduced was because he kept snagging on uneven geometry and just stopping midlunge. It was wider than his actual collision box which was an issue for both sides. Again, if they just cranked it to 11 the opposite way and made it tiny, thats just as bad, but im trying to be optimistic its an oversight with bad number values like Blight's camera being in his beltbuckle used to be. They got it right eventually.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I really don't know what they were thinking when they outright halved the hitbox. Clearly it wasn't playtested.
The idea of making it smaller was correct, but it sounds like they went overboard with it. I want to try to remain hopeful they just took a shot in the dark and will actually adjust it as needed.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3158972#Comment_3158972
Then the perk descriptions require changing as they do work together as perk descriptions. Survivors shouldn't have their match ruined because they loaded into a match with improperly described perks. It's one of the least fair aspects of this game. The devs do stealth sort of nerfs and then players get screwed over when they enter a match and discover it. I don't think the two perks NEED to work together, but one of their descriptions needs to be updated to specifically mention they do not work. Because as is, there is no reason they should not work per description. Balance is a valid reason for them not to work. Not a valid reason for incorrect descriptions.
Kinda feel like thats a bit of an overreaction, even if I do agree that there should be some type of notification that the synergy won't work.
Would you prefer they did the usual and nuke the perk to require the combo to get any value out of it though? I'd rather compliment them on addressing the extreme while not hurting the core value of either perk in the process.
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thats a pretty big bummer. Honestly kinda sours the recent node reductions when it gets followed by a "...but we're reducing your incentive amount" chaser. Its like every grind reduction QoL needs to have an asterisk at the end that dilutes its value to some degree.
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@Adjatha said:
Fun to see that the individual responsible for the nightmare that is the Reworked version of The Game is still in charge of level design.
"How many pallets does this map need?"
"YES"
safe pallets. Thats the important distinction.
Lots of pallets could even be a good thing for both sides IF they were almost exclusively unsafe, mindgamable pallets. Unfortunately strong pallets existing and their frequency demands the overall count be reduced.
Or we could just go back to putting two pallets on the same tile, apparently. Havent tried the live version vs PTB but that certainly wasn't giving me any hope they learned that lesson, same with the "halved overall size" of each variation.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159041#Comment_3159041
I don't have exact reasons as to why I'm afraid.
This is definitely something I'm taking some feedback on though.
This approach of stopping synergies instead of razing perks to the ground is good, can some of the more recently nerfed perks like AA and Thana possibly get a similar pass as well? Maybe overcharge?
I was honestly pleasantly surprised by it, would have expected the radius to be made so low that open handed would be required to make it usable.
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@buffcoyote said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156487#Comment_3156487
That's just not going to happen. Not until Nurse gets some kind of nerf. It is unfair for a Nurse to farm BP and MMR on us with her cheese range add-ons coupled with Thana and Starstruck, while we lose MMR and BPs.
Why would a nurse want to "farm MMR" when killers don't really want high MMR? it just leads to more matches where they would be forced to play nurse vs the growing amount of sweat.
I'm gonna be honest, from what you've said and how unapologetic you are about giving up, I don't think you're going to get matched with many good nurses. MMR itself is basically protecting you from them.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3157377#Comment_3157377
Yep! That's me lol And unless I've seriously missed something major, there's no way to change it. I keep seeing posts about how all console players need to do is change their input, but vaulting a window/throwing a pallet/healing/doing gens is the same action, so changing the input makes no difference. I tried.
To clairfy, thats a controller issue more than platform. Happens on PC as well when using one, which is annoying since i prefer controller for survivor specifically. Even called it out regarding pinheads chains ages ago and got ignored.
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@ByeByeQ said:
I actually agree with the OP on this one.
BHVR nerfed DS and made OTR not work in Endgame because they wanted to eliminate "free" escapes. These were far from free because a survivor actually had to fill a perk slot with DS and after getting unhooked had to make it close enough to the gate to be out guaranteed. This necessitated someone else to fill a perk slot with BT.
After 6.2.0 we'll see "freer" escapes than before. If the gate is open and not far from the hook and 2 or 3 survivors rush the hook against any killer except Bubba they can all handily get out without having to fill a perk slot. The 10% speed boost virtually guarantees that the team can bodyblock for the unhooked.
They've made it so that if all 4 survivors make it to EGC they can almost always all escape and the killer can't secure even 1 kill.
How will (bad) killers respond to this? They will run more slowdowns, camp and tunnel earlier in the game. Oh joy, how fun!
This person gets it.
The inconsistency of removing perk effects from endgame because they want to reduce free escapes kinda gets mitigated when they give those same free escapes at basekit without even needing a perk. And since there wasn't the 10% bonus speed in the past, its arguibly worse than it was when it was just people running BT, You literally go as fast as 110 killers for its entire duration, and it even synergizes with hope to gain even more ground more quickly.
Their design philosophy and direction are just extremely contradictory. Its almost like they never cared about EGC kills being near impossible to confirm, just that survivors had to use perks for it to become impossible.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156870#Comment_3156870
She is completely preventing me from interacting with a core part of the game and there's literally nothing I can do about it.
That's not gamebreaking?
Issues like this are absolutely a problem, but does anyone not feel like posts like this also apply to games where 1 successful sacrifice creates hook deadzones? Complete with people exploiting that to draw out the game as long as possible? This is a bug that should be fixed asap, but its kinda silly that objective denial arguments don't get carried over to there.
anyway definitely killswitch her, its worth risking upsetting the 5 people who bother to still play her, and myers players are certainly a sturdy bunch. They're used to mikey getting dunked on by players and devs alike.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156067#Comment_3156067
First off, my first post in this OP clearly says that MOST of the complaints about Nurse have been directed to Nurses using specific builds with perks that bring her to an oppressive level. I said that in relation to the statement being made that people do not want to learn how to play against Nurse, rather than trying to understand her overall power and how often perks/add ons affect her and the outcome of her opponents. I have no idea why/how you get that my post is being "aggressive" from that.
Second, I am not surprised by others disagreeing with me, nor am I surprised that they would bring the same talking point (I.E. YoU CleArLY DoNT PLaY KiLleR) to try to delegitimize what I am saying. You only involved yourself because you clearly think my post is too aggressive. Even though the one response I had just responded to, had the same amount of 'aggressiveness'. I am not trying to get through to anyone, so the mere fact that you would suggest that this is what I am trying to do is kind of funny.
In reference to what I said about you being biased was in response to you coming into a conversation (which again you are not included in until later) and supposedly calling me out? For what? For telling the one person who accuses me of not playing killer because I disagree with them, that they prolly don't touch any other killer aside from Nurse? That's where that came from. Quite frankly I could care less if you defended killers more than survivors as you just admitted. My day will be the same either way.
On the last part... AGAIN. You keep inserting quotes I said to try to create an argument, and its just not gonna work. Do your homework and read. Self reflect on that part.
I do self reflect on my posts and my conversations, regardless of their outcome. do you?
Rhetorical btw, don't bother answering. We got off topic enough as it is.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156293#Comment_3156293
Wraith is strong in 3 gen situation believe or not. And I think points I stated proves that. I don't usually use flaslights and even they get drained eventually. Maybe they would helped in this scenario but we could not know we were going to face wraith.
Cool, agree to disagree. If you want to keep trying to avoid advice you get, don't expect to have your outlook in situations improve though.
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@botany_nerd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156015#Comment_3156015
ignore him man his post history is all you need to look at to know he's not worth talking to.
Weird ad hominem stalk flex? I've noticed people using this attack against each other on here lately, kinda creepy tbh.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156269#Comment_3156269
Not every squad has flaslights and once I had wraith defending 3 gen area with overcharge + call of brine + eruption in crotus pensylvia he is fast while cloaked and can easily injure survivors so I think you underestimate him. That game lasted forever as well but that one we lost because mistakes by my teammates going down when gen was close to completed.
Nothing about that had to do with Wraith, it had to do with perks that improve gen regression. You're not really arguing with anyone, just bemoaning your point and trying to pull other factors in. My point was that he is a killer who survivors literally have the ability to stun when he is trying to traverse the map without even needing pallets, which hurts him exponentially in a 3 gen scenario. Whether you were ready or equipped to take advantage of that isn't relevant to whether its something that can and does hurt him in that scenario.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156123#Comment_3156123
She did have gen regress perks and we did heal pretty coordinatedly but if we left the gens even for few secs they were already regressed from 80% to 20%. The 3 gen situation requires perfect play from survivors but killer can make multiple mistakes. We would probably won agains't most killers this scenario. But nurse, blight and wraith excel in this situation and any killer with mobility.
Why would killer mobility matter if they need to leave the gens? Any time away from gens is time not protecting them, and wraith needs to be able to uncloak and get his hit before the survivor reaches a pallet or window, which is extremely depentant on the match up to that point. He can even be flashlight stunned and waste even more time, doesnt even need to be looking at you. Considering how absolutely awful he actually is in 3 gen scenarios, I was honestly kinda baffled he was thrown in there.
Edit: I mean i can see mobility on nurse being able to traverse floors and structures and blight being able to cover extreme distances while also having his attack ready simultaneously, but killers like billy/demo/spirit would fit better than Wraith.
Also congratulations on living through a worst case scenario. it happens with this game unfortunately.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156094#Comment_3156094
It doesn't matter if that was how the game was supposed to be what matters is that it's in the game and being used and is also ok with the devs sobthey need to address how the game is now not how it was back on release.
They are not going to nerf swf ever it makes no sense why you would be penalized for playing with your friends. Of course you would have to buff killer but you can do it vs 1 group of survivors because solo is almost as good as swf otherwise you have to try and balance around 2 separate groups and it's never going to work.
Not to call you out, but I specificied swf potential, while excluding casual swf. I'm talking smarter caps and sanity checks that don't affect your average player or even group on comms. They are very selective about the things they consider gamebreaking in regards to balance, and its a big part of what makes swfs actually strong. The communication is strong, but the strategy is stronger.
Its important to take this misunderstanding into account when considering their balance adjustments. The nuance gets missed for the sweeping change, which often introduces more issues than it resolves. All it took was missing a small part of my statement and it would have taken an entirely different direction. I wouldn't even blame bhvr for making so many balance mistakes if they showed they were actually learning from them.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156119#Comment_3156119
They've said several times SWF was always intended, just not ready at launch. If that is accepted as true, I'd say maybe whey underestimated the impact of the voice comms part?
I'd call it underestimating if it was just from the early days of the game. The fact that they regularly, to this day, overlook extreme problems from either swf comms or synergies on either side makes it feel like they're never going to understand that lesson. The PTBs feel like they know people are going to break their own mechanics, and they're just deciding how bad they think it can get based on that sample size.
Its baffling that CoH went live with boons being able to affect multiple floors, while letting people heal fast enough to keep trading bodyblocks to extend chases then heal the moment the killer picked a target. That was after it was so bad that survivors could create a group hug and pick each other up faster than the killer could down them purely based on blade wipes and their healing bonus could stack with overlapping auras. They addressed the absolutely horrendous oversights and use that action as excuse to ignore the rest like travel distance, vertical effective range, lack of a permanent basekit response, giving perk-tier functions to other survivors, etc.
Their oversights just don't feel like they learn from or understand them, they end up being biased at best, and reactionary at worst.
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@hiken said:
She is the only killer with lack of counterplay, or at least that makes it to other level. she is just unfun to go agaisnt that simple, and people know that sky rocketing her kills is how killers get nerfed so its the way to go.
This is why i never want to see kill rates in balance discussions ever again
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"Here's one aspect of a killer/perk/addon that is universally problematic, which even the killer is willing to let go of in exchange for more healthy compensation"
"ok but what if we just made them feel like absolute trash to play instead of compensation"
Its the BHVR School of Porcine Fisticuffs. Its why stuff like the Thana and AA whiplash inducing reactions don't even phase me anymore. They are extremely stubborn about lacking nuance when its needed.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156074#Comment_3156074
Not such a hot take from my perspective. I think that’s a fair evaluation of SoloQ.
Its kinda funny that apparently BHVR put out a tweet recently trying to make fun engagement around "who carries your swf." Its like they know all these issues but refuse to address them.
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@Akumakaji said:
I wouldn't dream about listening to even the slightest whisper outside of my killer gameplay. Chasing survivors is very demanding and you need to be able to notice the most faint of moans or cracking of dirt. The chase music is so loud that I at least can't afford to listen to some music besides the game ^^
Yeah like i can throw on spine chill and put sandstorm on loop while playing survivor, but sometimes sounds don't even work properly as killer and they're kinda important as it is without being drowned out by a tasty jam.
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@Deathstroke said:
Nurse is just bit too strong now defending 3 gens. Last match agains't her she started to do that once survivors started getting upper hand. The match lasted very long and eventually she won. We almost got two gens in that area done but it was not enough she missed multiple swings but even if she landed one that was enough pressure to gens to regress down and we had to heal. In soloQ this games was imposible to win only very good swf could won this scenario.
or just a patient group with the ability to heal away from the gens. Countering 3 gen strats is boring, but as soon as healing or coordination come into play anything less than instadowns will lose most of the time. Base gen regression is painfully slow, and if the killer doesn't have gen kick perks even self caring via the perk or CoH can keep up if multiple survivors can juggle properly (which does NOT require comms, just bodies that are alive, vertical, and know what they're doing.)
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I'm almost disapointed the term "kneejerk" hasn't been brought up yet.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156074#Comment_3156074
There would definitely be some but it would also make facing them not as bad sometimes because you can change your build addons and strategies going in.
You're not supposed to have strategies between players in the first place. The entire lore behind why tiles are procedurally generated is supposed to be because you're not even supposed to remember the previous trial (IIRC, its been ages.) Its one of the few things they actually try to balance the game around, even knowingly having a system that negates it. I don't believe solos need to be brought to swf levels, but more the peak efficiency (NOT casual presence) of swf specifically needs to be addressed. Buffing solos would require buffing killers, which just gets us back in the same place but with more steps.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156007#Comment_3156007
How many people do you think would do that though plus they are really just wasting their time. Swf already have that level of coordination so it's already in game.
Bringing solo as close to swfs as possible is the only real option they are never nor should nerf swf.
How many killers do you think would dodge to not have to go against an swf, regardless of size or skill? Again, I'm simply applying the dev's logic when they expressly made that decision, they don't want to give players any reasons to shop for lobbies. Its already bad enough people do it with prestige <9's but at least that'll (hopefully) normalize out in time.
Also hot take: Solo is nowhere near as bad as people complain about it, as someone who plays it almost exclusively. The reason it stings so bad is because you can do everything right and still lose (which can happen to a degree with any match even in swf or as killer, but happens most often in solo.) You could get every tool in the world and still be awful, but people overrate themselves every chance they get. There's just too much pride in this game, and it seems worse with survivors since you have teammates to carry you and toxicity gets worshiped instead of (rightfully) admonished.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155982#Comment_3155982
What exactly have I said that you think is aggressive? Maybe next time you should bother to read the context of the response that was given, rather than entering territory in a conversation you were not a part of, and giving your 2 cents because you don't like the way someone carries themselves rather than what is actually being discussed.
I am willing to bet you don't do that for your side's responses, because of the bias that you seem to have. Even though I was just told I "must not play killer" simply because I as both a killer and survivor player, I have a difference of opinion.
I would suggest that you follow your own advice and learn to take someone else's opinion as just that....... opinion. Not personal.
You literally started this post with an aggressive response. If you're not capible of self reflecting even that little, you shouldnt be surprised if other people disagree with you. Like you even go on implying I'm talking about stuff that doesnt relate to me, when you already did the same thing to one of my posts earlier in the same topic. If you can't stop being so emotional than you'll never get through to anyone unless they already agree with you in the first place.
Like, how do you not see what comments like "I am willing to bet you don't do that for your side's responses" actually say. I don't complain that the game's balance should cater specifically to me, so I don't have a "side." If anything, I end up defending killers more than survivors simply because of mindsets like yours that do put their own gripes before game balance.
Also what the hell is that "no u" at the end? You keep trying to state your opinions as facts, then try to fall back on "but theyre just opinions man." I respect other people's opinions, even when i disagree with them entirely. as opposed to stuff like "I can tell you don't play much of anything, but Nurse." By contrast, my first post was literally about how Nurse's differences are part of a larger issue in the game (agency denial) that affects BOTH sides.
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Not only would it be a bad idea balance wise due to how many things break with coordination, it would open the way for lobby shopping by people refusing to play with other survivors whos builds "arent meta enough."
It would hurt both sides more than it would help survivors, same reason (supposedly) killers can't see if SWFs are present in lobbies. Both would be great QoL changes for coordination and organization, but they create too much room for people to cherrypick matches.
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That stress and anxiety comes from knowing that your skill might have no bearing on the outcome of a match, before it even starts. A lot of Solos feel it as well, but its one of the reasons I wish this game was actually balanced and not balanced by averages. People who are susceptible to it create worst case scenarios in their mind the whole time they're waiting for the queue to pop (and considering most of the complaining topics on here, this is a lot more common than one might think.) Have an anxiety disorder of some kind? good luck!
The only way to really get over it for any role is to acknowledge that you will lose games where your agency is denied. Ignore all ego in the results and do your best to ignore the BM that will come in win or lose. Or just quit and play games that are more mentally healthy, as this one purposely refuses to address its effect on its players and community.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155806#Comment_3155806
So she is only viable because she can play around pre-drops? Totally not because she can use aura-reading perks and teleport through walls to hit a survivor? No, not that at all. 🤣
On the second part. Wrong. If you know that a survivor has already used resources, the next survivor being chased will not have those resources to use. You would have to be a pretty bad killer to not catch a survivor without a strong pallet.
I can tell you don't play much of anything, but Nurse.
Ima be real, I hate calling people out for their posts, but you're pretty aggressive about other people's perspectives not lining up with your own. I get that part of it was a response to someone acting similar, but the way you've been carrying yourself in this topic kinda encourages it. Stop arguing fallacies for five seconds and consider experiences you're given instead of dismissing them because you want to argue.
There are people who don't play nurse who also don't think she is broken or even op. Hell, they might not even play killer at all. If it seems like its only Nurse players who think she is fine to you, maybe that might be because people who play her will have plenty of experience seeing how survivors shut her down, or even just waste tons of her time. Maybe you could get that same info by playing as her and getting stomped by players better than you. Just learn to take anyone else's experiences as experiences, and not arguments.
Like this topic is about people refusing to learn to play against her, and you're proving OP's point with every post.
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@AtlasHammer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155336#Comment_3155336
The range should be large considering how often slugging happens vs hooking. 6m is way too small for something that isn't a guarantee. The amount of value you would be able to get from it is entirely dependent on how the killer plays. And yes, I'm aware that at higher MMR slugging is often essential for the killer to keep up pressure, however, I don't think my change would be enough for Buckle Up to enter the meta especially when something like Unbreakable is in the game.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155340#Comment_3155340
That's a fair change. Though I would make the grace period smaller like maybe 5-7 seconds. That way survivors outside of the immediate vicinity knows what's going on.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155390#Comment_3155390
I don't believe SWFs existing should kneecap solo survivors from getting niche info perks. I do like, and agree with, the suggestion that someone made above about a grace period between getting downed and the aura reading activating. I don't believe it 100% kills slugging, but rather heavily discourages it. The killer is in complete control of how much value survivors get from it.
"I don't believe SWFs existing should kneecap solo survivors from getting niche info perks."
Whether we agree or not, the devs do it against perks getting synergy with specific killers all the time. I can honestly say they simply overlook when SWFs can exploit things all the time, and only address it when it becomes absolutely gamebreaking like the boil over nonsense.
These changes would bring back designated UAVs in swfs again, especially with the right map offering and saboing a hook here or there.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
Idk the majority of complaints I see are because most of the Nurses people complain about have the Starstruck build with her OP add ons.
It is clear she breaks the game whenever the devs decide to introduce a new strong perk or do universal buffs to killers in general. The complaints are legit. It isn't just "refusing" to learn to play against her.
Why not both? People always use legitimate worst case scenarios to try to act like everything less from the same killer is automatically hopeless. Thats like a killer saying "why bother chasing anyone when god loops exist in the game?"
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3151590#Comment_3151590
I mean, sure, but doesn't that mean "quick play" basically doesn't exist? Other games use their MMR systems for both queues, the difference is in how strict it is.
Also, that's how this game worked before as well. Emblem based matchmaking actually was a series of ranks used to match you with other players that you were expected to engage with actively in order to make them increase. That's way closer to ranked than the current system, which is totally passive and based off how you normally play.
many games do not have ranked progress affect unranked modes. They exist entirely separate, with the unranked mode often just having connection based matchmaking. In this case its all ranked, but stays ranked and tries to switch over to quickplay style matchmaking while still keeping ranked tracking. Its probably the worst possible way to handle it, but they know how much separating the two would splinter matchmaking entirely.
Also the only reason its based off of how you play is because you have to play within its expectations? You can play well and die and play poor and get a 4k, the current system's only results matter approach can be anathema to good play more often than not.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3151540#Comment_3151540
But what makes it ranked mode? There's no like, ranks, there's no restricted rules, there's no rewards, there's no requirement to play [x] amount of the regular queue, there's no regular queue to begin with...
Seriously, I'm asking you. It's lacking literally every marker of a ranked mode and has been brought more in line with more standard matchmaking compared to where it was before- what am I missing that makes it ranked mode?
It doesn't have visible rank anymore, but its still a "ranked" system as long as MMR exists. The outcome of each game contributes toward what the game recognizes as your "skill" and thus, attempts to match you with similar opponents. Quickplay would be if MMR was off entirely, as it would not be using those types of considerations in matchmaking and instead focusing on speed. Any system that uses any type of MMR is ranked in all but name.
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@friendlyant1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3151395#Comment_3151395
I think having the number though would either be a 'wake-up' call to some people who think they're much better than they are as well as be useful to those who appreciate the info. I'd certainly appreciate it.
It wouldn't, unfortunately this game is so terribly balanced that its not even an accurate measurement of a player's skill, so it will always come with a big "ok but what if" at the end for most people. I dont necessarily doubt you would use the information in a more positive manner (im sure many of us would) but the ones who wont pretty much ruined it for everyone.
If you ever want examples, just check any topic the devs release any type of stats for. or even just posts referencing said occasions. They get misused and misrepresented constantly, when they're not even complete stats to begin with.
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Because they don't want people to have a number assigned to their skill, because most people would end up lower than they expect. They also definitely don't want to encourage all the mental gymnastics that come with it. either "why is it so low" "oh, thats just because x/y/z" "I must have hit the soft cap" etc etc.
This community is far too egocentric for any type of verification about standing. Which is a shame, because im sure there are plenty of people who are honest with themselves who might appreciate that info.
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tbh its probably Pentimento.
Hex perks are still garbage, but at least you can now dedicate another perk slot to having a useful yet extremely fragile backup tool for if/when they get taken out. Assuming they don't get booned of course. Unfortunately its one of the best slowdown perks at the moment, so people have been trying to work it into their builds more. I even see people run undying with it in order to try to get more totems cleansed to apply it on. Nobody ever gets to 5 stacks of course, but being able to put it on multiple ensures the first tier sees more active time.
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@Audiophile said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3150160#Comment_3150160
No I didn’t. But it’s inconceivable that a gaming company, built in the digital world, is not collecting and using data to understand their game. If they collect data to understand it, they can release what they know. “Not factually accurate” is ridiculous. They either don’t want to release what they know or feel they can’t properly explain it or have horrible data analysts. Either way, fail BHVR.
Oh they're collecting it, they're just not willing to do so properly and knowingly letting it be corrupted. They have commented that they do not have any way internally of separating hook deaths from hook suicides. That in itself makes those stats inaccurate as they knowingly ignore crucial data, especially since one hook suicide can often be a massive contribution to the fate of up to 3 others in the same game.
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I think they meant that you're basing the hyperbolie off of the wrong perk's distance, since there's a 10m gap.