Rumplestiltskin
Rumplestiltskin
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777125#Comment_3777125
Cool, please try to double check and actually learn the game before trying to call someone out, and I never said anything about how often it happens so please stop moving goalpost when you are proven wrong by official description
Absolutely. I said Touche didn't I? I called out your silly rant. You called me out on getting that offering wrong (however slightly). But the fact remains your original argument holds ZERO water. You already have a way to block map offerings. You simply have to choose to use it. They give the Sacrificial Ward out like candy in the Blood Web. I have well over a thousand. You have the tool; use it. There is nothing wrong with Map Offerings.
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@NerfDHalready said:
i know 10k is too many to worry about and i'm not planning to spend one more bloodpoint on my p100 characters anyway but i'm just wondering what happens if someone reaches 10k item limit on a character?
do they get any benefits like the elimination of said item from further bloodwebs or refunds for the item they will have to buy in the future?
there are players with 15k commons, will they get refunded for their losses?
and of course why was the limit needed? it looked weird in the menus but i don't think the very few players affected would rather this.
Hrm. Good question. I'll have to check my Michael as he gets the most of my points. I suspect I must have some things reaching that limit if they haven't already. But again, I don't think 10K as a limit is a problem. At that point you will always restock the things you use long before you ever drop even to 9K. ;)
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777109#Comment_3777109
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZWMXYN556T4Q/sacward.jpg
Since you definitely aren't talking about this offering, there should be some special offering I don't know of, can you please teach me the thing I haven't learn yet?
Actually I was and I recall it blocking even four. So either I misremembered it or they updated it. Touche. :) Even so, I don't recall the last time in the last EIGHT YEARS that I ever saw a SWF put four of the same map offerings in. And between my various Alts I am approaching 25K hours. So, just how often are you seeing four of the same Map Offering put in? :)
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Again, no. Just, no. The game is not balanced around behaviors within the game. The game is balanced around results of the matches. The DEV have told us this again and again. They are seeking a certain success rate, and as long as Survivors and Killers linger in that general vicinity, there is a rough balance. How Survivors get there and how Killers get there isn't a factor. My suggestion is that you worry about YOU. What can you do inside the match to get the results you want? I realize you seem to care very deeply about what other people are doing and how they play, but that just makes you a busybody who feels entitled to decide what is right and wrong for everyone else. That isn't your job. That isn't my job. Our job is to decide how we play personally. I never complain at Killers or Survivors for their legal tactics. The only time you are going to hear me get heated is when I see hacking, or someone using lag to throw things off, or some dirty Survivor that decides to work with the Killer. Beyond that I say have at it! And while REAL Tunneling is extremely rare, when it happens it is still just a legal tactic where the Killer is choosing to sacrifice all other pressure to chase one person down. It is rarely that profitable once outside of Potato levels.
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@bleep275 said:
Let’s ignore the usual “it’s toxic”. This time it’s about the growth and player retention.
So through this event I got several people to play the game and try it with me. About four. At first they were loving it. They were terrible, but having fun despite their mistakes. There was laughter.
And then the tunnelers came.
Now they quit. Now they won’t get back on. Because “how can I play and get better if I’m hunted off hook”.
Yes there are perks to help but the thing is. They don’t have them. They don’t have any DLC they’re new.
Now with experienced players. It’s a big reason not to play survivor. I typically refuse to play unless I’m begged or a challenge.
Tunneling is not only detrimental to game health, but also to player retention. Something desperately needs to be done to minimize the effectiveness or something to heavily punish it. So NEW players can have a chance and have fun too.
What are your suggestions to minimize this issue?
Mine would be: point penalty, heavily increasing length of endurance, heavily increased haste upon endurance activation off hook
Uh, no. Tunneling doesn't do anything of the sort. This game is rapidly closing in on a decade. People have been complaining about anything and EVERYTHING since day one. People throw around terms like Tunneling and Camping (and make up new ones all the time) without the slightest understand of what they actually mean. If Tunneling was killing the Player Base, given how often the loudest among us complain, Dead by Daylight would have been dead and buried long ago. The game is healthy and still going strong. It has the normal ups and downs which have more to do with the desire for new content, but the behaviors inside the game which people call "toxic" have nothing to do with it.
For that matter I've had a crazy guy call me toxic for bringing cake. Throwing around assertions like this with zero data to support them might seem appropriate in this election season, but it is in fact silly, unethical, and in no way supports your argument. REAL Tunneling is actually quite rare as it happens. And no behavior inside the match that is within the rules is toxic.
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@Belzher said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777090#Comment_3777090
Yeah but that literally prevents me from using the ones I actually like using, like for example points for everyone.
That is a choice you make. If you don't like map offerings, block them. Otherwise you roll the dice and take your chances that you might get a map someone wants to play.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777090#Comment_3777090
You still can't do anything against worst kind of users, the one who takes four of offering as a SWF
Yes you can. Learn the game. The offering that blocks map offerings blocks ALL of them. A SWF could all take the same map and your one offering would still block them. Learn the game before you start saying there is a problem or that you need something.
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@Phantom_ said:
All it does is make killers hard tunnel 1 person and for survivors it's often used to get an "advantage" over the other side, whether that works out or not. Usually leading to the survivors hook-suididing when it doesn't work out in their favour.
It adds zero value to the games. Can we please just get rid of them already??
This is not necessary. If you wish to block Map Offerings you can ALREADY do that. Use the offering which counters all Map Offerings and you are set.
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There was a demand (although I have no interest in it) for this franchise to join DBD. They did the math and decided to do it. For the same reason I still read and enjoy Harry Potter, I expect people will enjoy Five Nights regardless of the politics OUTSIDE the IP. That's it; that is all there is to it. I'm not going to write you an essay, although this topic could certainly support one, but I am to be clear, for many people they are able to separate the art from the artist and do not want to make politics their entire lives. Some people just want to read books and play video games. They can be good people, people who agree with you on issue, but do not leave and breath, 24/7, politics. I say give them and Behavior a break.
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@Peanits said:
On colourblind filters, I do want to take a moment to clarify that they are not a perfect solution to scratch mark visibility. The filters apply to everything in the game. If someone has a hard time seeing scratch marks on a surface that has red tones (such as in the example we shared), shifting the colour of the scratch marks also shifts the colour of the surface they're on. This can cause them to still be very difficult to see. These new scratch marks have a white glow to them, making them stand out regardless of the colour of object they're on.
I'll leave it to all of you to discuss, but to be clear, it's not meant to be easy to lose the killer while sprinting around. The entire purpose of scratch marks is to reveal your location. If you want to sneak, you shouldn't be sprinting. This is by design.
Thank you. That puts it to rest. As I and others said earlier, if you are concerned about scratch marks, don't run everywhere.
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@deckyr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3775852#Comment_3775852
knowing that your aura has been read is far stronger than not having your aura read. feeding misinformation to a killer can be extremely rewarding for a survivor, and i am doing it constantly in 2v8, the game mode that tells me that my aura is being read.
Uh huh. If you think this is stronger than hiding one's aura in the first place, you and I have nothing to talk about because we apparently are from two different realities.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
With the introduction of the 2v8 game mode and the presence of near constant aura reads, the devs created the mechanic that pops up showing that your aura has been read. If I had to guess, Distortion will no longer hide your aura but rather let you know that your aura has been read and for how long, possibly having even more tokens or maybe no tokens at all since it doesn't block the aura read.
I think that this might be even stronger for the perk as you know the killer can see you and wont get caught by any long range shots at all and can actively mislead the killer by faking a direction and then changing directions after the aura read runs out.
Knowing that your aura has been read is in no way stronger than not having your aura read in the first place. I hope that isn't the change as Perks like No Where To Hide would have no counter whatsoever. In that case you will know instantly that your aura was read because they are going to hit you immediately. :)
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@Octavice said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3775604#Comment_3775604
I guarantee you its not a "me" issue. I get 1 server sided D/C maybe once every couple days. Don't be so quick to make assumptions.
If you get only 1 Server-Side DC every couple of days, that isn't an issue. That is par for the course and normal in online video games. That is a non-issue. I did make assumptions, i.e. that you were being disconnected regularly, and multiple times in the same day. That would be an issue, and it would a YOU issue. What you describe in correcting my assumptions is a non-issue.
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@Octavice said:
Would really enjoy having an option to reconnect to the match, I've had so many matches where the server disconnects me in the middle of a round, and it feels crappy… especially in matches where you're doing really good. A reconnect option would be greatly appreciated for those whose D/Cs are not from ill intent.
With all due respect, it isn't the "Server" that is disconnecting you in the middle of the match so often that you need a way back in. 99.9% of cases like yours are connection issues on YOUR end. Everyone gets disconnected from the server now and then, but it is rare enough not to be an issue. Clean up your issues; rest-assured they are YOUR issues. It isn't fair of you to be putting yourself into games where you lose connection all the time. It does a disservice to the people playing with you.
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@Link_whale said:
I think the DC penalties do more harm than good right now, sure it discourages people from disconnecting but that just makes those people run at the killer and die first hook anyway. The people that DC penalties really affect are those that disconnect because of a technical issue, for example I've been having an issue with all of my unreal engine games randomly crashing and it's something that I have not been able to fix but each time that happens I boot the game back up and have to watch my friends screen share as my bot is playing instead. In any other game this isn't an issue because I am able to easily reconnect and suffer no penalties.
Removing DC penalties would also make it so people can play with the bots instead of someone that just goes and kills themselves on hook, even if the bots aren't the best I would rather play with 2 bots that do gens than be stuck in a duo at 5 gens remaining and either camp for hatch or have a 1v1 for 5 minutes just to die and go next.
When it comes to killer I do think the penalties make more sense however I feel like a reconnect button could still be implemented if for example the killer was taken over by a bot for 1-2 minutes after disconnecting and if in that time the person doesn't reconnect the game is terminated.
I know I am in the minority here but it's been really frustrating to suffer penalties for things I don't control and not be able to play my favorite game for up to 24 hours lately because of it.
They make perfect sense. They work well enough; I wish they were harsher.
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I got the achievement long ago. The only time I bring a Tombstone Piece of the Tombstone is if I'm doing a Daily or Rift that says kill by my own hand. It is a convenient quick way to get them out of the way fast. In general, I don't play with them because you either go against Players that have no clue and juice you up so fast you feel guilty about it, or Players who are smart and never let you get that Tombstone going until it is too late to win with a 4K. So for me, it is kind of a lose/lose even when I win. :)
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3775491#Comment_3775491
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism but that doesn't mean you cannot make decisions based on the information available to you at the time, and the morals you currently have.
I don't disagree. I believe I said the same thing, i.e. if it is important to you, do so. I'm just pragmatic about it.
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Uh, no. This is a bad idea, nor is the issue it claims to address a statistically relevant problem.
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The simple truth is, in this modern interconnected world, that you cannot buy anything (product or service) without putting money into the pockets of someone that disagrees with you. If any of you have watched "The Good Place:" you will also understand that almost every action you take has negative consequences as well, even when you don't mean for it to do so. Sometimes when you donate to a charity you find out that hardly any of the money went to the people you thought you were helping, and a lot went to people you don't like. Sometimes you put the money directly into the hands of a homeless person thinking you bought them dinner, only to find out later you bought them booze or hard drugs and they died because of it.
The world is complex. When it comes to intellectual properties there is always someone connected that you don't know about. Likewise, some of the greatest IPs are connected to people that had questionable if not downright horrific beliefs in their personal lives. If you feel better, get a satisfaction from denying yourself access to something to deny someone else money, that is a reasonable enough reason to do it. If you are able to divest the IP from the creator, then likewise that is a perfectly respectable reason to feel comfortable enjoying that IP. For my own part, I largely do not follow nor care about the creator's of IP (even those I particularly enjoy). I don't care about the creators, only the work. I think good people are quite capable (and have) done terrible things, and that bad people have, from time to time, produced good things. With that in mind I judge the the art, not the artist.
All that being said, I could care less about Five Nights coming to Dead by Daylight. It isn't an IP I associate with horror, a fun video game, or most recently a good movie. I consider it all B-Reel material at best. It won't bother me to run from a mechanical mascot, nor will it impress me. The new arrivals will join the ranks of many other Killers that are just kind of "there:" for me. I realize this is personal opinion, but I've never understood the excitement around this IP. I won't buy it unless the Perks seem so good that I don't want to wait on the Shrine. ;)
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@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773620#Comment_3773620
What am I wrong about? I've played 6 years and have a good idea of how to use my scratch marks to bait the killer or misdirect.
I think it's disingenuous to say this isn't a buff as well as a bug fix. If killers got slowed down near hook and I told you just don't camp how would that go?
@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773620#Comment_3773620
What am I wrong about? I've played 6 years and have a good idea of how to use my scratch marks to bait the killer or misdirect.
I think it's disingenuous to say this isn't a buff as well as a bug fix. If killers got slowed down near hook and I told you just don't camp how would that go?
Because it isn't a buff? :) Killers that use scratch marks to track can see them NOW. Having them brighter will lessen eye strain but it doesn't mean some Killers will be like, "huh what are these… I've never seen these before." Do you get my point? In short, you either see them or you don't. Seeing them without going bug-eyed is just a courtesy.
If you are suggesting that Killers will be less likely to lose the trail as they rush along behind it, I'd have to say that you are exaggerating the effect. This might help NEW Killer players a bit, but seasoned Killers don't lose that trail. The only effect this change is going to have on the game is training wheels for new Killers while they learn to backtrail a running survivor. If you are concerned about it, there is Perk for you that will make your scratch marks fade quicker. :)
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@Paternalpark said:
How is no one talking about this?
It's a massive buff that makes the stealth part of the game even less viable for survivors.
New tile designs plus this? You just supposed to rush gens then?
All scrach marks needed were color blind filters.
Will be meta like stretch rez was for survivor.
Because you are simply wrong? Just don't run. Survivors that play Stealth know when to run and when to walk, and often mix the two up in ways to mislead the Killer. Clearer scratch marks actually make that easier.
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
As the title says am I the only one? It gets very frustrating playing with potatoes and if they let me get to second state WITH kindered they don’t deserve my help
Nope; there are plenty of people like you out there. I'm not one of them, but you do you I guess.
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Sadly, it isn't really the game mode that I was envisioning. There are too many issues even disregarding the buggy nature of it. My main issue with it, which destroys my enjoyment is there is little to no mind game. This is very much a looping game for the majority of it. With all auras being revealed every time a Generator is popped there is no ability to do any mode but Looper. The only way you could try to avoid being instantly revealed is if you are an all SWF team calling out warnings of when a Gen is going to pop so everyone could jump in lockers except the one finishing it.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768894#Comment_3768894
I wouldn't include the killer. It simply won't end well and become huge sweat fest.
But it would be amazing soloQ improvement feature in my opinion.
Agreed. Although I suspect the original poster's interest was primarily for rematch with the same Killer. That would be better done as a custom game if all agree.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768801#Comment_3768801
It doesn't really do anything different than SWF.
I would definitely want part for survivors at least. Everyone who press "stay" is just going to get inserted into next lobby, or just create / join them into one group as SWF.
If it included the Killer it would be fundamentally different as far as the Que is concerned because it would pop them all to the front of the line. Another Lobby could be waiting for a Killer.
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If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting an option at the end of the match where the Survivors and the Killer could all be offered a "rematch" button and if everyone is in agreement and hits it, a new game will initiate? It isn't a bad idea, except for the fact that Dead by Daylight uses a Que system, and this would screw over people waiting for a match. :)
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Probably not how people envision me listening to music but at the moment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHjpOzsQ9YI -
@cheapslurpiee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766494#Comment_3766494
Uh yes that may be true however they are not and should not be guaranteed kills simply because the game thinks survivors should all be tied together with chains. So you think it's fair the killer can play to the games obviously blaring stale section in which a survivor is tasked with looping for an additional 4+ minutes because the game can't punish killers for leaving a survivor on the ground for that long? It's completely OK to you that someone's game is effectively over but they have to sit in the game an additional 4 minutes so you (the killer) get a few more blood points? 4k's and 4 outs for survivors should not be easy to get.
Yes. That is the game. Those are the risks that Role takes on. The Killer has different ones. I'm perfectly ok with someone being on the ground for four minutes (I'm been a wiggle worm myself a time or two). You roll the dice and you take your chances. If you sit on the ground until you bleed out that is fault primarily of yourself and your teammates. You got downed. They failed to pick you up. The Killer just did his/her job. I find it annoying just like you do, but I don't blame the Killer for something I am equally (if not more) responsible. I joined the lobby. I played the game.
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@Anonyshadow said:
I know this is most likely going to be a bit biased given that one side has more of the playerbase behind it… buuuuut…. this is more directed at people who play both roles anyway…
Which is worse to go against… An Entitled Survivor or a Scumbag Killer (Not saying all killers are scumbags but some play like scumbags… in my opinion lol.)
I play as both with a leaning towards killer and have dealt with frustration on both ends.It isn't a fair comparison or question because the roles aren't equal. A scumbag Killer (however you define that) is just doing his/her job regardless. Nobody relies on them because they aren't part of a team (at least until we see 2v8). So good manners or bad manners, a Killer that is playing within the rules is still is functional and carries his/her weight. Even when the Killer DCs the Survivors don't suffer (pretty much only the Killer does).
An Entitled Survivor has a team he/she can let down with bad behavior. The Role is responsible to other people and every hissy fit, disconnect, and so on impacts other people playing the game deeply. Entitled Survivors also go outside the game and attempt (far more often) to create unofficial rules, moral and morays they expect others to play by despite them having no basis in the rules. They are far more detrimental.
All that being said, in the real world a bad sport and jerk is still a bad sport and jerk and I wouldn't want to hang out with either. In the game, however, there is no competition as to which is a problem.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766852#Comment_3766852
eh. I already said there doesn’t need to be an anti-tunnel mechanic for failed tunneling attempts. That doesn’t mean the killer wasn’t trying to tunnel.
Also? Easy tunneling outside of your strict definition, hook one survivor twice, at next unhook event, down unhooker, then down tunneled surv, then hook unhooker and then hook tunneled surv.
I would still say that was tunneling. Sure, a good team may be able to work against that, but it’s a game, there are not only coordinated teams that will prevent this kind of tunneling. Just one simple example. And there are more.And for the record I don't think there NEEDS to be an anti-Tunneling mechanic. I merely made the suggestion of the only one that would be remotely workable. I think it isn't needed and that real Tunneling is rarer than people think and has plenty of in-game counters already. I merely gave the only possible suggesting, remotely related to how the bug works. I'm not advocating for it. ;)
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@ProffessorTV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766795#Comment_3766795
But for them to just be face-camping?
What else would you want them to do? If everyone else is in the gate there isn't an objective there. The Killer's only guaranteed kill is the on on the hook and the hope that the others will come for a rescue to give them a shot at a 2nd or more. ;) It would be monumentally stupid for the Killer to leave the hook under those conditions.
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@Rumplestiltskin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766847#Comment_3766847
Unlikely because the Killer would have to be in on it and unless the Killer is going for a specific person, he/she will hook someone else. Attempted tunnels don't count. A Tunnel is strictly defined and you wanting to expand that definition is a subjective way is what makes this a problem. Tunneling is the Killer going for one individual and ignoring everyone else. That is the ONLY definition of Tunneling. You would have to be monumentally unlucky (and a bad Player) to accidentally get hooked three times in a row. And with this suggested rule the Killer would simply ignore you for the third one and hook someone else first. ;)
You don't get to telepathically guess that the Killer was intending to Tunnel. That is self-serving entitlement. Only actions count. Did the Killer hook a single person three times in a row until they sacrificed without going for anyone else.
And for the record I don't think there NEEDS to be an anti-Tunneling mechanic. I merely made the suggestion of the only one that would be remotely workable. I think it isn't needed and that real Tunneling is rarer than people think and has plenty of in-game counters already. I merely gave the only possible suggesting, remotely related to how the bug works. I'm not advocating for it. ;)
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766855#Comment_3766855
But it’s not really respectful to talk op’s feedback down based on something they specifically said wasn’t their suggestion.
What exactly about this post is so thoughtful that it deserves any respect?
OP likes the bug, didn't think at all about it and decided mostly targeted group are tunneling killers, said they want something like a broken bug in the game as a feature.
There is no effort to deserve respect.
And I know how it is to play swf. Though that doesn’t really have any relation to this at all so why bring that up?
Then you should know, how easy is to abuse this bug...
What exactly your "assumption" about my soloQ experience had to do with this, why bring that up?
Two wrongs don't make a right? :)
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766835#Comment_3766835
i don’t agree that 3 times hooking one survivor without any other being hooked is the best indicator for tunneling tbh.
Could still be a 3 man swf throwing the 4th random surv under the bus, while they avoid hooks by any other means. Or the one survivor is just running into the killer. Or the killer happens to find said survivor that often and can’t find/catch the others even though they are trying.But… this is indeed happening a lot and in a lot of tunneling attempts the survivors may succeed in getting in between killer and tunneled and that’s the only reason why it’s not 3 consecutive hooks - doesn’t mean that there wasn’t an attempt to tunnel (also doesn’t mean there need to be an anti tunnel mechanic being triggered when the survs succeed like that either)
Unlikely because the Killer would have to be in on it and unless the Killer is going for a specific person, he/she will hook someone else. Attempted tunnels don't count. A Tunnel is strictly defined and you wanting to expand that definition is a subjective way is what makes this a problem. Tunneling is the Killer going for one individual and ignoring everyone else. That is the ONLY definition of Tunneling. You would have to be monumentally unlucky (and a bad Player) to accidentally get hooked three times in a row. And with this suggested rule the Killer would simply ignore you for the third one and hook someone else first. ;)
You don't get to telepathically guess that the Killer was intending to Tunnel. That is self-serving entitlement. Only actions count. Did the Killer hook a single person three times in a row until they sacrificed without going for anyone else.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766764#Comment_3766764
I don’t have a concept for it.
And guess what, I don’t have to have one to say that some mechanic would be healthy to address the issue currently in-game.
I am pretty sure the devs could come up with a mechanic that would be better than the current way and other than the bug.
But i also agree that you and other will find something to complain about. Good thing is, it’s not about just pleasing you personally.
As for the trigger - nowhere in the op is it stated that this should be the one and only trigger.
Here is the ONLY concept that is not abuseable and actually targets real Tunneling. If one Survivor is hooked three times in a row and sacrificed without anyone else getting a hook, the next Generator will be worth two (one time bonus). That's it. That is the only remotely appropriate way to do it. Will it come up often? No. Real Tunneling doesn't come up often. Entitled Players just call nearly anything the Killer does Tunneling, Camping, or Slugging. :)
When it comes up however, it would be a nice bonus to the other Survivors who should be Gen-Rushing while the Killer chases that one Survivor to death. It will all but ensure a 3E which is a win for the Survivors, INCLUDING the one that gets sacrificed. A win is a win, and being team player that runs the Killer as long as possible for the tunnel is an honor.
Now all that being said, would this setup I mention above satisfy any of the people screaming Tunneling all the time? No, because they aren't being Tunneled, they are just bad players.
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@BlueDragonHatch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766780#Comment_3766780
My question still stands, what qualifies as "holding a game hostage" if "leaving all other players in a state unable to do anything to impact the game for 4 minutes, when you are fully capable of winning the game at any time" does not?
Holding the game hostage is a reportable offence, that is not interpretation. It is listed as an example of griefing here: https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408586278676-How-to-report-a-playerThis is a good question. These days it is VERY difficult to take the game hostage. Safeguards are place to time out the match. Once the gates have been opened a timer starts counting down (it wasn't always so). Once someone is downed they will eventually bleed out. Once the hatch is closed the same timer starts counting down. Yadda yadda yadda.
In general you only see a game taken hostage by hacks these days. Hacks are sometimes used to keep people locked in a match. The only real exception is if the Killer has killed all but one Survivor and blocks them in a corner, effectively locking them into a part of the map they can't get out of. The gates don't get powered, the Survivor won't bleed out since they aren't downed. They are stuck there until the Killer decides to let them out. The Killer isn't letting you progress, nor is the Killer doing it for any tactical reason to progress his/her objectives.
The only OTHER way of holding the game hostage requires the Killer be working with a Survivor. The Killer blocks one gate so it can't be powered up, and a Survivor blocks the other. Or I suppose two Survivors working with the Killer could block both gates from being powered while he torments you. Both of these are rare, but do happen every now and then. That's pretty much it. In short, if the game can end, the game is not being held hostage.
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@BlueDragonHatch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766731#Comment_3766731
It is, quite literally, against the rules.
From the rules of conduct: "for example you may not: … Interfere with the ability of others to enjoy playing a BHVR Service"
Additionally, there is an option for reporting holding a game hostage. If this does not qualify, what does?
Yes, there are bigger, more impactful problems…
But, while hacking and lag spikes are difficult problems nearly impossible to truly fix, this is quite easy - let people leave, suicide or otherwise end the match when everyone is downed.No, I'm afraid not. That rather liberal way of reading that statement would mean that someone can say I'm not enjoying playing the game because Killers are hooking me. :) So no, you don't get to interpret it that way. But you don't have to trust me, you can do a search here or simply write the DEV. Report someone for doing it and see what happens.
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@BlueDragonHatch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766607#Comment_3766607
There is absolutely a problem with the game: There is no punishment for artificially lengthening a game after winning.
Yeah, the survivors in this game were outmatched, but bleeding out takes more than 4 minutes from the last person down, it is one thing if the killer let them bleed out, as that would be ending the game, but purposefully letting the timers get low before interrupting the bleedout is "intentionally using game mechanics to the detriment of the game" and "taking the game hostage".
Nowhere on the report page does it mention you can only report teammates for griefing.Punishment? Language is always a good indicator of intent or emotional intent. A little introspection never hurts. Nobody is defending making them crawl around on the ground for a few minutes. It is rude and bad manners. It is not, however, against the rules, a detriment to the game, nor any kind of offense. It is, like many types of bad manners, simply a barometer of the person you played against. For all you and I know, that mean Killer felt he was punishing evil Survivors for torturing him with a Bully Squad the previous match. That doesn't make it right, but I've seen that too. The Killer who did the same thing to me said (in the after game chat) that he was punishing us for the unfairness of the game.
I laughed it off. Was it annoying? Yes. Was it fair? No, but whoever said life was fair? It is a statistical outlier and best ignored. People like that have a way of bring on their own just rewards and neither you, I, or anyone else need be part of it. Bad manners are just that, and you just have to let it go. The game is eight going now on nine years old. This Forum had posts from people complaining about this behavior all the way back. The first time it happens to you it is infuriating but after that it is like a Blue Moon, few and far between. Think of it as a Unicorn of Bad Manners, or a Burger King Myers getting a 4k. ;) But you have to let it go, because nobody is going to punish anyone for it. There are far more important, meaningful problems out there. Hackers, people who lag spike, people indulging in the worst kinds of hate and ism, harassment of an evil nature. There are people out there who still engage in DOS attacks. Those are the things that require action, not some insecure moron getting his jollies by being a jerk.
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@shizzy_Pooh said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766567#Comment_3766567
the fact that you think slugging two survivors at 4 gens until we both bleed out isn’t an issue is disgusting to me. And yes I know what tunneling is he tunneled out the first two survivors 123 out and me and the other survivor that were left we didn’t get hooked not once and he just left us on the ground at 4 gens even if we did have unbreakable he would’ve still left us on the ground. Points are points? No sir that is foul to just leave the last two survivors on the ground I even crawled right infront of hook and he just shook his head no and kept ringing his bell, that was toxic behavior and it should be punishable. What you said is typical killer main mentality and it’s not right slugging all 4 survivors to see who has unbreakable like what? It’s not a contest to see who gets up
What I think is weird is that your teammates didn't pick either of you up before going down. I suspect there is also the high probability that you and your teammates were so far outclassed by this Killer that you are confusing your poor play with there being some problem with the game itself. Remember, the first step in solving a problem is admitting that YOU have one. There isn't a lot of profit to be made blaming a failure/loss/etc. on other people or the system itself. We all are playing the same game you are. You are the person you have power over. Focus your energy on what YOU can do better next time. It is a win/win strategy.
No, you clearly don't know what tunneling means, not even close. But be that as it may, have you considered that if you are this easily triggered by misfortune and adversity that Dead by Daylight might not be a fun game for you? I would venture a guess that nearly everyone who reads our posts has been slugged (probably many times) and while we might fight it annoying at the time, let it go at the end of the match. There is no need for anymore anti-slugging mechanics. There are plenty of them already.
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@shizzy_Pooh said:
I just played a match against a wraith, he started to tunnel at 5 gens, slugged me and another survivor we were the last two alive at 4 gens, and just left us on the ground the whole time until just barely before we were about to bleed out and then proceeded to hook us after wasting all that time after taking the game hostage by leaving us on the ground just walking all over us banging his bell. Since the anti face camp mechanic was made can there be a anti slugging mechanic? This is unacceptable that the killer can just bleed us out and there’s NOTHING a survivor can do about it.
So I'm a bit hazy on this. You say he started to "Tunnel" at 5 Gens, slugging you and another Survivor. How is the Killer tunneling if he was chasing two different Survivors, even going so far as to down them? You go on to say you were the only two still alive at four Gens. So that means the Killer also went and downed (and sacrificed) two other Survivors. I don't think you know what "Tunneling" means.
There are plenty of anti-slugging mechanics. Most of them of are Perks and if you feel this is a problem you can take precautions against it. Moreover, if a Killer is slugging, it means that other Survivors have a chance to pick people up off the ground. Happens every day, thousands of times a day. Slugging Killers are often their own worst enemy.
In regards to the Killer choosing to "bleed you out," that is a rather unfortunate behavior and I've seen it now and then. It is hardly a common thing. Some Killers slug you down to see if anyone is going to get up. After all, they don't know what Perks you have. Getting you all down, waiting for someone to jump up, allows the Killer to maximize points and get another chase and down in with minimal risk. Some Killers slug and then go around breaking walls and cleaning up pallets. Points are points. Some are just rude. All that said, it isn't a big deal and it isn't taking the game hostage because you will bleed out. You have made a mountain out of a molehill.
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@cheapslurpiee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766409#Comment_3766409
I don't think we are thinking of the same thing. In my idea it is down to 2 survivors and one is on the ground while the other is up in the situation where the killer leaves you slugged to go find the other person. The downed survivor dies early so the other survivor can find hatch. It's an altruistic OPTION if they think the up survivor won't be able to get them back up and instead will just cause all 4 survivors to die instead of 3. You don't have to do it if your game calls for waiting and playing it out.
I'd have to give a big fat NO on that one. We clearly were not thinking the same thing. I don't have a problem with someone on the ground taking themselves out so as not to have to wait to bleed out (particularly if the Killer is being a jerk or simply can't find you), but I have a BIG problem with you taking yourself out to give the other person the hatch. No, just no. The Killer has just as much right to try and earn hooks and points as the Survivors and you looking for a way to short that Player is not right.
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@cheapslurpiee said:
I've thought about this for a while but I'd like to hear any downsides I'm not seeing... How would you feel if the game allowed a downed survivor to take an earlier leave than the 4 minutes (?) On the ground after they have been slugged? I think that would help with games where it feels like the survivors are holding on to another's ankles and dragging them underwater with them. I would say the context to activation could be:
1. Potentially only available if you're 1 of 2 survivors left in the game or if all survivors are downed.
2. Only available after maybe 2 minutes on the ground so the last survivor up doesn't have to survive for a full 4 minutes with a potential end game set up where most pallets have already been dropped.
3. Opens up more tactical game play for survivors so you allow the individual to at least feel more empowered as it's a race to survive that 2 minutes or so then find hatch. Makes both killer and survivor equally anxious as they have a shorter time until the game odds shift if the downed survivor drops.
4. Can count as a kill for killer but now you don't get to just rejoice as you run around the map letting survivors bleed out for 4 minutes.
Any adverse side effects?
@cheapslurpiee said:
I've thought about this for a while but I'd like to hear any downsides I'm not seeing... How would you feel if the game allowed a downed survivor to take an earlier leave than the 4 minutes (?) On the ground after they have been slugged? I think that would help with games where it feels like the survivors are holding on to another's ankles and dragging them underwater with them. I would say the context to activation could be:
1. Potentially only available if you're 1 of 2 survivors left in the game or if all survivors are downed.
2. Only available after maybe 2 minutes on the ground so the last survivor up doesn't have to survive for a full 4 minutes with a potential end game set up where most pallets have already been dropped.
3. Opens up more tactical game play for survivors so you allow the individual to at least feel more empowered as it's a race to survive that 2 minutes or so then find hatch. Makes both killer and survivor equally anxious as they have a shorter time until the game odds shift if the downed survivor drops.
4. Can count as a kill for killer but now you don't get to just rejoice as you run around the map letting survivors bleed out for 4 minutes.
Any adverse side effects?
This would only be a good option, in my opinion, if we are down to the LAST Survivor. I don't see any reason the last remaining slugged Survivor in the game shouldn't be able to accelerate the bleed out. However, none of this 1-2 nonsense. Just because you want to give up doesn't mean the other Survivor doesn't want their chance to look for hatch. Nor do you automatically know if they have something that would let them get back up.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766333#Comment_3766333
"The devs said so" is not a compelling argument. "It's their game" implies that the game would continue to exist after pissing off a sufficient portion of the players. Revenue from players keeps the game alive, not the benevolence of the devs allowing us to play out of the goodness of their kind hearts.
An argument based on "muh horror aspect" is logically inconsistent with every other trend in their design decisions over the same time period.
I'm not arguing with you, nor are they. I'm just stating a fact. You can accept that fact or you can go take it up with the DEV. The game's design and balance doesn't have 50/50 in mind. You don't have to like it, but pretending it isn't true or that changing it is even open to debate is simply in error. I agree that they company is based on profit. I think they understand their own business model far better than you do. It stands to reason they make their choices based on sound policy and results.
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@Itadori said:
Behaviour, please, I'm asking "PLEASE", improve this match banning system, man I was banned for 70 hours due to an internet outage. But the problem is that this damn system thinks I left the match because I wanted to , but my internet went down in the middle of the match, already knowing that I was going to be banned. So I ask you to improve this. I believe I'm not the only one who has suffered this, so I think you should fix it. (You really don't care, so I don't think you're going to do anything about it)
I'm kind of curious because this explanation leaves a lot to be desired. It takes a hell of a lot of disconnects in to work yourself up to a (70) hour ban. Did you just ignore all commonsense and keep trying to play despite not having a stable connection? If so, that is on YOU. It is rude, if you do not have a stable connection to keep playing and subjecting other players to your constant dropping out. In addition, each time you got disconnected it would have shown you the new delay to reconnecting and playing. You had to see the time was increasing. If this is not the case, please explain how you got directly to a (70) hour ban.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766116#Comment_3766116
So every time brightly colored meme outfits/charms and characters that don't fit the game are complained about we're told "DBD isn't a horror game after your first 4 hours". When animations are reworked to look like survivors are going for a morning jog instead of running for their lives we're told it doesn't matter because DBD isn't a horror game. When map reworks completely remove fog and make them bright as day to the point the killer and survivors can wave at each other from across the map we're told it doesn't matter because stealth is boring and it's not a horror game.
But you're telling me when it comes to the core game balance, suddenly we need to make the game unfair because "muh horror aspect"? No, that ship sailed years ago with every other element of horror atmosphere being discarded.
That is exactly what I'm telling you, or rather the DEV tells us that. Game balance is specifically tilted toward a number the DEV see as correct for escapes versus kills. They do not intend them to be 50/50. :) They have released their intent and why. The reasons I listed are THEIR reasons. It is their game, we just play in it. As I said, the game seeks to invoke the tone and imagery of horror films, and in that respect, the Killer normally gets most of the victims.
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@WitchWalpurga said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766116#Comment_3766116
The amount of hours is not related to my points. But i am happy to answer, i have around 3k hours of true playtime and i know what true tunnelign means. I play SWF mostly with a mixture of experienced and less experienced players and due to that my average encounter rate of true tunneling is quite high. Typically we never play sweaty with 4 toolboxes or any kind of that stuff. But killers decide often to start tunneling at 1 or 0 gens done, even on maps which are quite empty or the new type of pallet between two trees or where the long side is 3 meters is your average :). And this is still my only problem. You don't NEED to tunnel that early. You just decide to do it because you want an easier win or to ruin the fun for the other side (same thing is ofc true for the survivor side when you bring 4 toolboxes and some hyperfocus/stake out loadouts, but again, as a killer you can adept to that and i would not be mad if you tunnel early if you see 4 toolboxes but your average game is not like that)
I absolutely disagree with the horror game. DBD is not a horror game, maybe for the first 5 hours where you get jumpscared by a stealth killer. But after that, DBD's horror aspect is gone. DBD is a purely strategic game at this point where your decisions lead to escape or death. If horror would be the main aspect of the game, the main mechanics owuld not be looping and sitting on gens. It would be stealthing and getting jumpscared/brutally killed in a mori. This leads to one major problem: there is no space for error. With all recent changes to maps and the big killer update two years ago the need for efficient gameplay just increased if your goal is to survive. Bus this is not related to any kind of horror aspect, this just leads to strategic gameplay and again, this isa huge problem for SoloQ and especially low MMR. And I absolutely understand that people like to win. Remember when the gen time went up to 90 seconds? Camping+Deadlock more or less guaranteed a 2k (especially if you played bubba) and if the survivors did not understand that, you maybe got a 3rd one. If there is room for an easy win, people will exploit that, because again, DBD is not a horror game, DBD is played like a strategic game and as such we have to treat it. DBD is balanced around a 4vs1 situation but if you are abe to make it a 3vs1 winthin a short time because you werde able to do that (by skill issues, empty maps or no anti tunnel perks) than this initial balance is gone and in my opinion the game should have a design to prevent that from happening too early.
Yes, I'm afraid your hours are related to your points. Our experience shapes our opinions. However, 3K is respectable enough. It is more than enough hours for you to understand the game. Your attitude, however, is one I associate more with people in their 500-1500k hours of playing the game. Many years of listening to after game salt and peeking at hours has shown certain patterns. Let me ask you this, "Why do you think that you know better than other players what they NEED to be doing?" That is a bit entitled isn't it? I think it is very noble of you and your "experienced" SWF to never play sweaty (or any kind of that stuff as you put it), and that is entirely your purview. You get to decide what is right for you. You know YOUR needs better than anyone. When did you get issued a badge to judge the play of other people, particularly when the choices you are passing judgement on are perfectly acceptable within the game. I put in the caveat that I still don't believe you when you say you see REAL tunneling as often as you do. The hubris and entitlement you display is not uncommon but still funny to me after all these years. Why don't you worry about you and let other people make their own choices?
In regards to the horror aspects of the game. You are simply at odds with the DEV themselves. They have stated repeatedly (and recently) that the mood, tone, and theme of the game is still to pay homage to the horror origins of the game. They have kindly told us roughly the percentages they would like to see as outcomes and how they use those goals to tweak the system toward that end. So, if you don't like those facts, you need to take it up with the DEV because this is their world, we just play in it. What they say goes.
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@bluesidesoul said:
Idk, how long have you been playing? I used to hate tunneling when I first started, but now accept it when it happens. I actually find that killers are far more likely to not tunnel in my matches. And since I've gotten much better at looping and my solo queue teammates get better, tunneling is actually already detrimental, especially since taking hits and body blocking is normal.
Between four alts I have 18K hours. :) And and I also agree that Tunneling doesn't come up that often. A good Team of Survivors can make bank off a Tunnel in popping Generators and so on.
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@Mooks said:
I actually kinda agree.
I had a few matches where a survivor either got tunneled out super quickly or gave up super early and this bug did help out to make those matches seem fairer/not a complete lost cause.
Though obviously, it shouldn’t be implement exactly like it’s happening now. I don’t think anyone actually defended this bug as it is and in the op it is very clearly stated something SIMILAR to this bug…
(Also agree there should be a mechanic for killers in matches that feel completely lost…)If a mechanic were implemented that registered a extra Generator if (and only if) one person is hooked three times in a row (and thus sacrificed) without anyone else spending time on the hook, I would agree. Only under those conditions would it be targeted at Tunneling. It can't trigger because someone dies on their 2nd Hook because they gave up or they didn't get there in time. It has to be TRUE TUNNELING that provides that bonus Generator popping and nothing else.
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@WitchWalpurga said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3765933#Comment_3765933
I have two main issues here. First, MMR. It does not work, everyone knows that and we all live with that. Once you play against baby killers and today i got matched against someone from team eternal (playing spirit). My escapre rate is higher than the averages stated from december but you cannot win that as a normal SWF or a Soloq :D.
My problem is that tunneling is a stragegy that survivors cannot prepare AFTER the game started. DBD is a game for fun (at least i hope) and that is a big problem. If you focus on anti-tunnel, you cannot do other stuff anymore. Killers on the other hand can always apply the best strategy (including the less fun ones like slugging, 3gening, hit and run…)depending on the current state of the game. I would argue that survivors can adept to everthing exept tunneling as you cannot expect everyone to do 5 gen loops. Early(!) game tunneling is just a cheap way to make your game easier as killer, which you can do, but this is also a guarantee to take away the fun of a minimum of one player and this should not be part of a well designed game.
Which brings me to the next issue: the desirged kill-rate of 60%. What does this mean? This means that on average less than 2 survivors escape somehow. With 2 survivors a bit more frequent than 1 survivor escaping. The devs recently started a trend of buffing weaker killers, which is fine and also nerfed many maps to achieve that. Fine too. But this affects lower MMR much more than higher MMR. And i would not enjoy a game where i constantly lose, because the people in high MMR don't die often enough (which, according to the stats, they don't).
You did not answer my questions about how many matches and/or hours you have logged in this game. The answers would have given me better context on how to help you. You are making a great number of assumptions above. We do not know if MMR works as intended or not. The DEV created MMR to work in a framework they understand. It could be working exceptionally well from their standpoint and in regards to statistics. The fact that you don't like your matchups is anecdotal evidence, not anything that can be measured. For my own part, it works quite well. When I play I'm up against the best Survivors they can match me with. The fights are, for the most part, hard. That is as it should be. The nature of this game is that you never know who and what level Player is going to be logged in at a given time. The MMR system is going to do the best it can with what it has available. The limitations entirely based upon the pool of available players.
I don't think you truly know what tunneling means. Don't feel bad, most people complaining about it don't know what it means. To be tunneled ONE Survivor has to be hooked and chased and hooked again and chased and killed to the exclusion of chasing anyone else. That is tunneling. There are no half measures. If a Killer is out and about trying to get other people and you happen to get caught twice in a row, doesn't mean you were tunneled. It means you were either unlucky or played badly (or your teammates didn't pull their weight). Actual Tunneling is very specific and happens rarely. The problem is we have a whole bunch of players who don't understand this and cry "TUNNELING" anytime they are feeling singled out. So unless the Killer is ignoring everyone but you, don't cry wolf.
In regards to your last question, the DEV believe that maintaining the horror aspect of the game means that the Killers are likely to get more of you than get out. It is slightly (very slightly) weighted that way. That is a design choice on their part and one I happen to agree with. Dead By Daylight would not feel like a horror movie if the bad guys were always inept or stymied. That would make it Fraggle Rock.
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@WitchWalpurga said:
tbh, my games were much more enjoyable as well as i encountered much less early tunneling. Ofc such a system would need failsaves such that it only works within the first 1 or 2 gens done but there is no need to tunnel at 1 or 0 gens in low or medium mmr. This game should absolutely not be balanced for the small percentage of tournament players who ruin the casual gamers fun by just bulldozing them in public lobbies.
What makes you think this game is balanced for the best Players? The DEV firm believers in statistics. Everything they do is based on numbers. The so-called small percentage of tournament Players are an insignificant number when compared to the population of Dead by Daylight Players, and thus they have very little impact on the numbers. The game is balanced on the averages, and some preset ideas of the game designers.
If you are getting bulldozed in your lobbies, the only person you should be taking to task is yourself and your teammates. How many games/hours do you have under your belt? I'm curious.