Rumplestiltskin
Rumplestiltskin
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@TheSingleQuentinMain said:
I'm a killer main, so please don't interpret this as some angry survivors rant about how unfair that last bubba camp was. I'm trying to figure out, why do people do camp builds and such? I personally have never really bothered with it because I don't think it's fun to fight, or to do, and I realize some people just do it for the meme or to tick people off. However, I want to know if anyone actually finds it fun, and if so, do you want behavior to make it more viable or give killers new camping options?
Different strokes for different folks? One might ask why you think it was fun to make a thread like this? What purpose does it serve? It clearly exists only for you to pass judgement in a passive-aggressive way. Is that fun for you? What kind of emotional fulfilment do you get from it? What people find fun is what THEY find fun. Most people don't do things they don't find fun. The only question that seems new and out of place is your last one, where you ask if these people you don't understand, the ones who camp as you define it personally, want Behavior to give them more camping options.
A variation of this question comes up ALL THE TIME whenever someone wants to comment on a behavior they don't like but are trying to seem like they aren't commenting. I've seen this question asked for nearly every kind of tactic or strategy in DbD (as well as other games too). It doesn't work and we all know exactly what you mean and are saying. So my question to you, made even more plain, is do you find talking about how other people play the game fun?
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782262#Comment_3782262
Besides all your sarcasm, I indeed think killers should consider the fun for their opponent in some situations (survivors should so too, don't get me wrong). If the killer mobbed the floor with the survivors, and earned many many points with them, then (extended) slugging the 4k can be very unnecessary. You already proved you are clearly better than the survivors, no need to rub it in their face by being extra sweaty to guarantee a meaningless 4k. It's just an ego thing as this point.
So if you are not required by some daily or challenge to slug to find the last, pls put back your ego, hook the second to last and take the gamble for hatch. Hatch escape is still a crushing win for the killer, what more do you want?
Unironically, if the game would be changed somehow to always let the last survivor out, it would effectively remove slugging for 4k entirely. If one surv is guaranteed to get out, killers won't need to use tactics for "ultimate defeat".
I don't think you understand the nature of competitive games. The fun comes from striving to be the best. Most people, growing up, learn some game from a parent (or both); mine was Chess. There is that moment of disgust and anger that comes when you get good enough to figure out that they are taking it easy on you. Almost all of us say the same thing, "I can win on my own. Don't do that." The pride and joy comes from that first real win, that victory wherein you know you beat them on your own. Nobody wants pity. You and your opponent will always know the truth on some level and it grates upon the pitied person. It is a insult, albeit one that supposedly is born of kindness.
A competitive game is just that, a contest where both sides give their best in the attempt to win (or achieve the objective). It is disrespectful of your opponent to dumb down the game for them. It is the same as saying, "don't worry kid, you will be ready for the real thing someday. Until they I'll carry you because it pleases me to stroke my own ego." Your opponent doesn't want fake wins. They want to earn it. They will be overjoyed if they are doing well up until the moment they figure out you are toying with them. Your intentions don't matter; the road to hell is paved with so called "good intentions." I would consider it an insult to be treated as such, and thus I try not to insult my opponents thus.
The fun of "competitive" games is in striving against adversity, to overcome and achieve. You bring your own fun with your mindset. Your only responsibility is to bring your best for your opponent, and them do the same for you. You only get out of game what you bring into it. Your fun, and their fun, must be brought and maintained by the respective parties. If you don't find fun in the contest itself, hard and stressful, you are playing the WRONG sort of game. There are countless games out there that are not competitive or at the very least, are not Player Versus Player. There are cooperative games. There are games against AI designed to be no harder than you, yourself, set the difficulty slider. Do you get my point? Two generations of people playing video games wherein they get to "set the difficulty" has evolved a mindset, a sense of entitlement, wherein many Players think they get a say in how difficult their game should be, even when matched against other Players. Hubris.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I play a p100 Sadako religiously and get a mix bag of levels. Usually fairly low. I play Oni and all I get is P100's a P70, a P90. I barely play him…What gives. Sadako I almost get babies. I also lose A LOT with Oni. I hardly win. (Hes just fun)
How does MMR work. I just dont get why my more experienced killers get lower levels and my less experienced killers get swfs and high levels. Its awful.
MMR doesn't work most of the time. That is because it is secondary to the lordship of the Que. The game will TRY to match you with the right MMR, but there is a timer on it and if said people aren't available almost immediately, you (or your opponents) are going to get thrown to the lions. It is one of the reasons I never thought setting up MMR was worth it in the first place. I like the idea of a much more detailed, and specific MMR, but also one that will simply make you wait until you have appropriate opponents. The DEV feel that keeping the Ques moving are more important, and thus they invalidate MMR even as they use it. Their logic is that "something" is better than "nothing" and that it working some of the time is better than it being totally random. I disagree at this point and would rather have it entirely random if it isn't going to provide the service it promised. I don't blame the DEV for trying. I understand the demands of the Que as well. They have to try and placate both issues and when it come down to it, the Que is always going to win.
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@NerfDHalready said:
what's the correlation between "slug an entire lobby" and "getting a 4k"? if the killer slugged all 4 (or however many) next step is hooking them but some killers will refuse to do so, and i'd suggest a surrender option just for these cases. if unanimous, all survivors die on the spot.
oh but if you mean slugging for 4k in a 2v1 you just gotta eat it as long as hatch exists. if survivors have the right to hide to get hatch, so does killer to prevent that. you can bring ub or expo if it bothers you this much.
The correlation depends on the Killer. The Twins, for example, seem almost designed for slugging. It is their most effective strategy. Likewise, a Bubba was clearly intended for dropping multiple Survivors at once, and slugging for him is natural. I'm sure you would rather fight him slugging around the map than camping, which he is also good at. Then there is a Myers in Tier-3, who would be wasting his limited power by spending time hooking people. Trapper, when the plan goes right, has his best shot when one is on the hook, and one or more is in a trap. The rest will be running to help the trapped one get free and slugging is ideal at this time. Plague, likewise, infects people when played correctly and hopefully gets everyone ready for an instant down. Wasting her one-shot ranged attack when in her power is insane. I could go on and on.
The important thing to remember is that every match is different. Some Killers are pretty much designed for one tactic or another. Sometimes Killers not so inclined also have tactical reasons to do it. Imagine you get into a match with a bunch of really good Loopers. Let's say you have a high MMR, and you are fighting some serious talent. You work hard to get one down and see a chance to get another. If you hook, and go about your business you are letting them reset. You have to run the same nearly impossible chase again. If I get SWF who are clearly coordinating and communicating with one another and hard to catch, I would rather slug and use their team mentality and info against them. I have a better chance bagging the lot with the odd slug here and there. Again, it depends on how the match is going. Sometimes you have to slug them all or face all four reset and rolling you. I'd rather have a win than a loss with a few more hooks.
All that being said, I don't go into a match with slugging, tunneling, camping, or whatever on my mind. I do whatever I have to in the moment. No plan survives contact with the enemy, so there isn't much point in having a full strategy worked out before you know who or what you are facing. For that reason, I don't judge Killers or Survivors for whatever legal tactic or trick they use. That is their business; mine is how I will react to counter. I don't think trying to complain or shame Players for using allowed, LEGAL tactics is ethical or has any class whatsoever.
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@Naiki said:
Hi, so I don't really tend to speak on the forums but I feel like this issue is getting out of hand. I've been playing dbd for a while now and even though I'm not the best player by far I've always been able to play and enjoy the game both on my own and playing with my friends but recently I haven't been able to play without being tunneled out of the game. By tunneling I mean being the first person to go down and hooked and then getting chased straight off the hook until I'm out of the game, no matter how many teammates try and stop it the killer doesn't seem to care and just wants me.
Last time I tried to play with my friends I got tunneled 4 games I'm a row and I just stopped playing because I wasn't having fun. Even if I'm not the one being tunneled I see a teammate in the same situation at least once or twice every couple of games (think about 1/2 times out of 7/8 games).
Again I know that I'm not the best at the game and I could get better at running the killer around but I shouldn't have to become the best at the game or play at a competitive level to just have fun, to just play the game I payed for. I don't have a solution for it but if anyone can think of something to stop it it would be great, I really like playing dbd but if this keeps up I don't think I want to go back to it :(
The only person that can ruin the game for you is you. We all play the same game and deal with the same obstacles. Step up.
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I don't think any information (including names) aside from seeing the Survivors standing there holding stuff, should be visible until after the match. It would make it much harder for cheaters to coordinate getting in the same match with the Killer to work with them for one thing. :)
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I take whomever is tactically viable at the time. I don't give any thought to Tunneling as a strategy, although I could care less that there are people who do. If you are in front of me, and I can get the hit/down, I'm going to take it. It isn't my job to keep up with anything beyond that.
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@menacing_goose said:
Genuinely wondering why a lot of you complain about meta as if most of it is caused by killer. Anti tunnel is meta because tunneling is seen so often, even after the nerf pop pain res still remains in the killer meta and people who “gen rush” are viewed as boring as if they’re doing something wrong. I could want to run meme perks but it wouldn’t matter and would be pointless because killers 9 times out of 10 will never be for it. “It’s not being toxic we want to play the game as well” don’t get me wrong I understand when you guys say that but how are you gonna go and say this but then be upset at survivors when they just run meta and play the game instead. Meme perks are pointless if no one wants to meme and bad perks just aren’t worth running at all which you know because I’ve heard it many times “pop pain res is meta because there’s no other regression worth running”. So I’m just curious as to why there are so many complaints as if killers can’t control most of the game.
You are operating under an incorrect assumption. Real tunneling doesn't happen that often at all (once you are outside newbie Players). Many of the changes implemented have more to do with how loud and often some people scream about things. Many things in the META exist purely because, annoying as it may be, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. It holds true for both roles, Survivor and Killer. People complain about something long enough that it annoys the DEV into doing something.
Let me give you an example. Face Camping was never a huge issue out of newbie Players because it was a bad strategy. But endless wailing about it eventually got the current setup where you might unhook yourself if the Killer stays too close for too long and nobody else is about. The reality is the only time you unhook yourself is when the Killer wants you to do it. Killers who utilize the hook for bait, and know what they are doing, have always proxy-camped or intercepted based on timing so they aren't affected at all. The reality of the change is bad Killers learned proper technique because some people couldn't stand the Killer's breath while they sat on the hook. It was a big win for the Killer role, and three steps backwards for the wailing Players complaining.
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@Survivor_Main_2000 said:
I REALLY wish if survivors can be more than just different skins. The best idea I think would be if every survivor had their own "abilitie", Kinda like how every killer has their own "power". Every survivor will have their own abilitie that is not tied to their perks. The sooner the dev team starts working on this, the sooner they will be able to come up with ideas and push it out, the more they postpone the more survivors they will add and the harder it becomes for them to be able to make a significant gameplay change like this.
I've always felt the same way, but it would have to be some very minor specialized ability to maintain balance so everyone isn't wanting a specific Survivor. In general, they could probably liquidate a lot of the never taken Perks and convert them to a version of special ability. They won't of course, but it is a nice idea.
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TheArbiter above echoed my thought on Crows and I think his additional idea of the Killer instinct also works. I still think that if this issue really needs addressing either of these will work, but I wouldn't have this kick in until down to two Survivors or less. To be honest, I don't think this happens often enough to require man hours and coding to do. So just like I tell Survivors who get annoyed about being slugged now and then, I 'm going to tell Killers to just grin and bear it. Just keep looking.
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I think the easiest way to add a mechanic IF one is need, and I'm not certain it is required, is to have the system start triggering crows on Survivors who haven't worked a generator for a few second at least in over a certain number of minutes. I don't know what would be a good amount of time to decide. Remember I'm not certain this is necessary. I would also stipulate this to only kick in when down to 2 or less Survivors.
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The two Survivors hiding is simply the Survivor-side version of slugging. They are dragging things out looking for another option. The difference being the Killer slugging for a 4K is at least still advancing toward his/her objective. Hiding for an hour and still losing since you don't get out is counterproductive. All that being said, just as I feel slugging is a valid tactic for Killers, hide and seek is a valid option for the Survivors. Perhaps they think they can make you quit and win by attrition. :) There are Perks to help you find them. I run into this frequently enough when I sacrifice the first two while there are still two or more Generators to be done. You will eventually find them. It is just the game.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780068#Comment_3780068
Oddly hostile comment, especially claiming I'm sweaty and miserable when I haven't insulted you at all.
The top MMR players aren't just 1% by the way, there's no way on earth I'm top 1% MMR, but I've reached the point where I go against map offerings very regularly and it's extremely unfun. There's a reason why so many people complain about them and that's because they're a net negative on the game experience for a lot of players.
In my experience, when I play against casual players, they tend to bring BP offerings, not map offerings.
I expect my MMR is just as high as yours and I LIKE map offerings being in the game. Variety is the spice of life. If map offerings were removed, rather than simply tweaking a few problematic maps, entire builds would be extinct overnight. The META would rigidly be defined to ONLY those builds which are all comer, reducing the number of overall Killers you see and the builds they have. It would be, in a word, very tedious and very quickly. I don't think he intended to be hostile in his response to you but to emphasize a point. Why make suggestions that take away options from other Players rather than suggestions which provide ways to mitigate the things that you see as issue?
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He doesn't need to spawn with all his Traps. There is an add-on for that. However, I agree he should be spawning with at least (4) of his traps considering he is bigger than Pig and she starts with (4). I also think the remaining traps should be hanging in lockers and gathered there rather than spread out across the map. Just like Trickster and Huntress, the Trapper should have to go to a locker to get more traps, with only one per Locker until all are out on the field.
*An add-on could be updated to say that traps start on the map rather than in the lockers, and already set randomly.
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How about neither of your suggested options, as if those are the only alternatives. ;) I like map offerings, and I'm dubious about the logistics of blocking maps and Que health being compatible. Simply tweaking maps over time still seems like the most sensible approach. Not all maps are going to be great for every Killer or Survivors. There is nothing wrong with that.
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@I_mean_yeah said:
Comparing DBD to other games, the changes happen so slow, and they're usually so small, it's like they're afraid to make changes. Even when a new patch comes on, it doesn't feel like a big difference.
I understand that the community has strong opinions on stuff and once they got used to something, it's hard to change that cause they will rage, but we have the PTB.
I just don't understand why don't they just implement a bigger number of changes to the PTB, and just add the ones that felt good in the new patch, leaving the others behind.
It's a bit mind boggling to me that they only introduce a bunch of small changes in each PTB, that should be the place where chaos ensues, you can easily make changes to 10-15 killers in the PTB and then only implement the changes to 5 for example. And you can continously test all kinds of stuff.
Having the PTB be like 80-90% similar to the live game seems counter-productive to me
The DEV make slow, incremental changes to maintain the game. Remember, while it is a game to us it is their job. Killing the goose that lays the golden eggs due to impatience masquerading as "courage" would be a tragic consequence. The fact the game slowly making its way toward the decade mark, still going strong, I think their method of approach has proved to be successful overall.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3779161#Comment_3779161
In defence of the ramblings of the OP, it either gets better, worse, or BHVR does a nuanced change that doesn't make the perk worse overall.
It ain't getting buffed, and BHVR isn't known for it's nuance with game balance lmao. I'm gonna guess nerf.
If, and it is a big if, there is going to be a nerf (rather than just a lateral redesign) I expect they might require a longer time in the Killer's terror radius to rebuild tokens, and/or and have the max carry capacity of (2) Tokens at a time. I rather expect the latter only, however, as they like to test incremental changes and an immediate drop to (2) Tokens satisfies the people complaining about the Perk as a substantial change, without gutting the Perk.
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I think the issue with MMR is one it isn't a broad enough spectrum before people are lumped together, and two the system still favors Que time over everything else. MMR is fine but the second they can't get a lobby right away, they throw one side or the other to the proverbial lions. My MMR is right up there but I still get Potatoes regularly based on the times I play.
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No, a map ban system is not a good way to approach the overall issues with maps and Killer mobility in the game. The best fix would have not to have created such a HUGE discrepancy between Killer mobility, so that some huge maps are nothing to some Killers and nothing but heartache to M1, slowpokes by comparison. That ship has sailed however. The next best fix would be for all the maps to get a rework wherein the M1 aren't playing from behind. It isn't perfect fix, but probably better than having to redo all the damn Killers. The only OTHER way to fix it, which I think would work would be to make it impossible for certain Killers to get certain maps. That would be problematic in different ways.
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@RenoPro said:
The result of sbmm and mmr is getting the same boring matches over and over and never improve bc you encounter only pp of your level.
I propose to remove it completely and add a system where player with less than n° of hour will only match themself until they reach the cap of h° and will get trow with everybody else.
The logic of you argument is questionable. If you are playing people at your own level (or better) you are forced to improve. Playing people inferior to yourself in no way leads to improvement. While I agree the MMR system needs some tweaking, it is far better than the alternative.
Although I see in later posts you are arguing the opposite. I can't follow the context.
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I don't track my games to the extent you do, but anecdotally the percentage of pathetic quitters seems about the same to me as it has always been. The only difference being now a Bot comes in for Survivors that jump ship, and it is a coin toss whether you get the juiced super-bot a normal one. ;)
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There is a lot of nonsense in thread so far. Let's start with fun. You bring it yourself. It has nothing to do with who the Killer is, what the Killer brings, or what your teammates do or bring. Fun is entirely a mindset, and you either bring it with you or you don't. You either dig a challenging game (win or lose) or you don't. You either enjoy facing adversity, being behind the eight ball, and seeing if you can achieve the impossible, or you don't. Dead by Daylight is a stress engine. Just like a horror movie, it wants to keep you in as continuous state of stress as possible. Some people love horror movies, while others do not. The artificial stress created by certain types of films and games are intended as a release. However, if you are one of those people who doesn't get fun from that, and cannot let go of the stress after the match. If you are one of those people who just gets more and more emotionally tilted with each progressive match, one would have to ask why you are still playing.
Going on to the other nonsense, there there is just as much skill in doing stealth right as there is in looping. Some people are better at one thing or the other. The best Players work both aspects. I find statements about looping as if it is the only real skill, because some people are biased toward it both funny and a reflection on the people who make them. If you like looping, and are good at it, great. If you are doing your job wasting the Killer's time, awesome. Kudos. Don't get an inflated opinion of yourself or the role you play on the team. I assure you that I'm far more interested in those stealthy types cranking Generators for less points at the end. If the Generators don't get done, nobody gets out.
When I'm doing Solo, I always see the self-appointed Loopers who follow the Killers around trying to get them to chase. Most seasoned Killers can identify these Don Quixote types almost instantly and proceed to pretend to chase them or ignore them all game, until the end. Why? These wanna-be Looper Superstars just want to be chased. They don't get on the Generators, and insist on continuing to try and get the Killer's attention. Good Killers know that person is already dead weight. Why waste time chasing him/her? You would think this idiotic Don Quixote behavior would be rare, but due to the mindset many people have about looping, that is it he important, fun part, it is far too common.
Lastly, Tunneling, Camping, and Slugging are often the most misidentified behaviors in the game and people complaining about them are almost always WRONG. I wish there was a nicer way to say it, but there isn't. You get downed for a variety of reasons, but the chief among them is that the Killer caught you when you made a mistake. Wars are not won by the side that does the most right. They are won by the side that makes the fewest mistakes. Dead by Daylight is, by nature of it being a stress engine, is a game of attrition. You don't become a decent Chess Player until you can see at least seven moves ahead. You don't become a good player of Dead by Daylight until you can count the costs accurately, and thus make efficient choices. It is silly to complain about one Killer or another. The two you picked out are different from those others would choose. Why is that? It is because it isn't a problem with the Killers. It is YOUR problem. You learn to deal with it, or you don't.
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@Tamo said:
I just realised this actually got put in the game, after the last update hooks that a survivor is sacrificed on get brought back.
I hated this idea then & hate it just as much now, this isn't fair at all. Survivors struggle to wiggle off anyway (for good & obvious reasons) it shouldn't be easy but a swf or just a toolbox - let's be honest - will make it that much worse. My problem is for 1, Breakdown actually removes the hook for longer. What!? 2, we argue about play styles & skill level, if you make a dead zone by not strategically or just in general thinking about hook placement for a survivor you down I can't stress enough how that's then on you. Plus saying that you can counter said problem by slug-ing if you need to.
It was something entirely avoidable & didn't need to be implemented, the fact it made it past the PTB is shocking to me. It doesn't tend to be a problem (dead zone of no hooks), it's occasional. So just the same I bet it didn't seem to matter to anyone that the change happened but now that I've seen it in the game I was just in I can't stress how humerous to me it was how quick it came back & how silly I think it is they actually added it to the game or how bad it could end up being. For something so situational it wasn't necessary & I really do hope this gets changed back. Maybe it is just me, but I'd like to think others can see the issue & also understand the argument that where other things we blame on playstyles this somehow wasn't just seen as player error before.
I don't think you understand the unmentioned reason they are doing it. Having hooks return gives them design space to buff certain Perks which don't see a lot of use. More specifically Perks which lengthen the amount of time a Hook is down or anything to do with sabotage and so on. A dead space created by a destroyed hook would create horrible situations where the Survivor would just run back into it and the Killer had the choice of bleeding them out, or wasting time over and over again trying to get them to a hook. Certain SWF using synergized builds could amplify this effect.
Having hooks return, and thus no permanent dead spaces on the map means that they can create new Perks dealing with hooks or buff existing ones. For the DEV it is all about incremental changes to affect the Meta. The only people that are going to be affected by this change, and marginally at that, are people who utilize the strategies I mentioned above. To get the results of a wiggle out due to damaged hooks, the DEV want other Survivors actively creating the situation rather than it just being bad luck.
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@Jim_Tonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778156#Comment_3778156
I dont fully agree on the two questions. Yes you are right in a rough sense but in my case for example i love this game, i do enjoy it while i play it and i have fun playing both sides…
But i absolutely despise BHVR as a company, i could rant about all the horrible decisions they have done that are so totally bad for their players, there was a LOT of shitstorms over the past years, LOADS of things they handled extremely bad. The reason why this game is still alive is that there are no real competitors. And thats the sad truth, BHVR acts exactly like a company that has a monopole. Only the recent trickster visual bug and the cheaters faking ID's and getting wrong people banned debakles are good examples for recent mishandlings, mishandlings on BHVRs end. Remember first they tried to downplay it and act as if it only affected a minor part of the playerbase before they even fixed it, when things like these should be top priority.
And i could go with dozen other examples that dont affect the game in itself but the surroundings of it. Im not even mad at balance because its an asymmetrical game its never going to be completely fair. But i really dont like how they dont take their players serious. Thats the impression ive got from my 3 years im dealing with BHVR now..
So i am still playing a game that i enjoy in my free time, while having to hold my nose tight closely to not smell the bad taste that comes from other things involved with it.And I would suggest, with only good intentions, that despising BHVR and letting it run rampant in your emotions doesn't hurt them, but it does negatively impact YOU. I know it is cliche but your fun will go up and your stress will go down when you simply stop worrying about the things you have no power over, and focus on the things you do. The hackers thing is a pet peeve of mine too, as I think that with a game as successful as this they could, if they so desired, go for a more effective (if more expensive) form of anti-cheat. That, however, is an example of something I have no power over, so I just ignore it. When the hackers become too big an issue for me I stop playing. That I have power over.
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@bluesidesoul said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778217#Comment_3778217
Dude, just admit you love holding survivors hostage so you can call your parents and tell them your apparent killer accomplishments. Congrats, if you haven't heard from them yet. Good job! Please slug more, and BM why don't you. I'm done with a conversation with a brick wall. Hope you get bled out if you play survivor and we'll see how much you love slugging then.
Heh. No, actually I don't play a Killer that profits much by slugging. In general, I only slug when I get to the last two, and more often than not it is a very short wait for the person on the ground. My interactions with you are a courtesy to you, not particularly interesting to me. I've had this SAME conversation perhaps 20-30 times over the years. It always goes the same way, and those Players I had it with either leave the game or eventually realize they made a mountain out of a molehill for the sake of being dramatic. I can assure you at 8+ years that the squeaky wheel does NOT get the grease. If it makes you feel better get back on that soapbox and rage against the dying of the light. Accuse those who disagree with you of whatever you want. :) In the end, it will all amount to the same thing, a tempest in a teapot. The game will remain the game. You either learn to not get tilted over little things, or you let yourself remain miserable. It isn't any skin off my nose. I am honestly trying to help you.
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@bluesidesoul said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778200#Comment_3778200
First of all, I never stop trying to do generators so miss me with that scenario. Also, the killer is supposed down me and then hook me, so the other survivors not at fault here. The killer is called the power role for a reason. I feel the same way about slugging for the 4k that I feel about survivors teabagging at the gate when they already won. It denies the killer the opportunity to go to next match to keep playing.
Actually, no. The big bonus the Killer gets is for nobody getting out. At eight hooks the Killer is already going to get all they need for that. Since you know the game, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. But the Killer earns Pips by destroying lots of stuff, getting a certain number of hooks, making the game last as LONG as possible before the gates open, and by making sure nobody gets out. In that respect a Killer who quickly and efficiently sacrifices everyone will get fewer points and is less likely to double pip. It is strange that being an effective Killer, and getting you on to your next match, is less lucrative than making the matches last, but that is how it works. ;)
As to the Killer being called the "power role" that is a matter of opinion. In point of fact, the so-called power role shifts over the course of your experience. The Killer only enjoys being top dawg while hunting relatively new Players, potatoes for lack of a kinder term. The power role flips to the Survivors as they learn what to do and when to do it. The power role is defined by who calls the shots in a match, sets the tone and pretty much makes the other side react to them. The DEV fixed it so that there is a maximum amount of time you will spend on the ground. You will bleed out. The delay for you to get to your next match is measured in minutes only, however long it may SEEM to you.
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@bluesidesoul said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778118#Comment_3778118
Please don't act all high and mighty. I'm fine getting killed and not escaping. What I don't like is laying on the ground when I could have been in the next match getting more points and having fun. But here I am, slugged for the killers ego. That's my problem. Its annoying
I think you are lying on the ground for the Killer Player's desire for a double Pips actually, not ego. On that note, how do you think Killers feel about those last two Survivors who stop trying to do Generators and try to hide forever in hopes the Killer quits. Is that for their ego? :) I'm not acting, "high and mighty," but rather pointing out entitlement of a kind you usually see in a Starbucks when a barista is being yelled at about something not under the barista's power.
In regards laying on the ground, I would direct your ire at the people actually responsible for picking you up, not the person who is supposed to put you down. And of course, a little self reflection on how you got on the ground in the first place. I'm sure your own choices weigh in as well as the Killer's move. I've been a wiggle worm on the ground too, and I'm aware it isn't fun. It is just part of the game and you simply have to get past that.
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@Jim_Tonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778128#Comment_3778128
Well i wouldnt be sad if hatch was gone, then they would also replace these obnoxious survivor hatch challenges
Well, yeah. If they did a big change like that they would have to replace/retire some challenges. I've watched Hatch go through a long evolution, and it changing again is possible. I doubt they would ever remove it from the game entirely though. All in all I, I don't speculate or advocate much on what I want to see (or see removed) from the game because it feels like wasted energy. The DEV do what they do based on their business model and many other things we will never know or likely understand. I doubt they get any warm feelings after all these years when they get praise, nor do I think they even notice heckling. There is so much of both, that one would simply become immune over time.
All in all I think they do a good job. They tell us roughly the target numbers they are looking for and are close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades to those target goals. They tweak things for the most part, rather than making big sweeping changes because this isn't a game to them; it is a business and who wants to accidentally kill the goose that lays golden eggs? Incremental change, when needed, is safer than getting hit by the anvil of "unintended consequences" of massive overhauls. If we are to judge Dead by Daylight, there are only two things that seem relevant:
- Are you still playing the game, angry and complaining or not? If you are they are doing more right than wrong.
- How do their numbers look as far as their Player Base? Are they consistent despite normal ups and downs? If so they are ok.
The individual and the mob are the only two measurements that really have meaning. You and I are here talking about the game. Even the people here venting about the game are still playing the game. Clearly the game is more right than wrong. ;)
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778059#Comment_3778059
If I had to make a guess I'd say someone feels called out. - But no, it's not psychoanalysing anything. It's making a character judgement based on the behaviour I see.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777991#Comment_3777991
I do understand the game system - I also understand that there are challenges that require a 4k. However, it has no effect on my opinion of these people.
True. You have every right to jump to conclusions about other people playing a video game within the rules. Make all the assumptions you want, because you know the old saying about assumptions right? ;) I had to consider whether I feel called out, to make sure I wasn't responding due to personal bias. I quickly reached the conclusion that I do not feel that way. The truth is I play video games for fun and the rest of you are just flashing lights on the screen. I don't take anything personal, either what happens in the matches or the spraying bile here. I think people who get upset over what happens in video games, or those that try to draw real life information from the same, must be most unfortunate indeed. I feel for them, but there really isn't anything I can do other than point out the obvious.
The evidence I give you now, for your consideration, is anecdotal entirely. I'm absolutely ruthless in matches, unless a weird mood takes me I'm going to 4K every time I can. I rarely give the hatch. I don't just want to win, I want to obliterate my opponents. I enjoy the matches more when they are hard, and I'm glad we have MMR and want to have to sweat. Games like that are a hoot. Away from the game, I'm considered friendly, reliable and very mellow. I would go so far, self serving as it sounds, to say that I'm well-liked and get along with others. I don't have any enemies, that I know of. The people I'm "competing" with in the real world are nameless faces whom I never meet directly. I suppose they don't care for me much, although it is unlikely they know my name anymore than I know theirs. If what I am saying is true, I would be a statistical outlier in so far as how YOU make assumptions about character and ethics. I would disagree, however, as know a lot of the most hardcore Players in this game (and other games) and most of them are great people. It is almost as if being competitive in video games has nothing to do with anything else.
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@joeyspeehole said:
I was playing with a friend and they were upset about the cage retuning killers. I was like, "I never know where the cages are when I play killer, other then when I randomly happen upon them." They replied that the killers down someone and then run straight across the map. I didn't believe it until I saw this happen five games in a row. What's going on? I thought 2x8 was suppose to be chill and stuff. Why are killers acting like they do in 1vs4?
What made you think 2v8 is supposed to be chill? It is the same competitive game, only with twice as many Survivors and twice as many Killers. I think you are operating under an incorrect assumption. My guess is that the code tends to throw the Survivor to the cages furthest away from were downed. Killers have figured out the pattern and now cut across the map by the shortest route (a straight line) toward the section of the map furthest from the point where they stomped. This gives them very good odds of getting there fast. I've seen the Wraith doing this job very well given the speed. The Wraith then proceeds to take a free hit on the one unhooking, and then decides which to run down from a selection of two targets.
When you have really good coordination between Killers they have a 100% accurate rate of getting to the cage since the Survivor ends up at one of the two furthest away cages, so if in communication they just make sure one of them goes to each. Then the moment a sight-line is established the one who got the right one can relay the info to the other Killer and get joined for a conversion.
This is the reality of the 2v8, and a very effective tactic. You have to expect that Killers are going to get better at maximizing their performance. They KNOW that with such a large number of Survivors that a rescuer is already on that side of the map or on the way. It is efficient, therefore, to be where your targets are going to be.
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@Jim_Tonic said:
OR remove hatch. That would also make slugging for 4k unneccessary. You would be never slugged for the 4k again if hatch wasnt there. sounds good right?
This is factually correct, even if humor was your primary goal. A Killer who wants to try and earn the big BP bonus for no one getting out, slugs because stopping to put someone on the hook gives the other Survivor a great chance at finding the hatch. They can use that time to move off, hide and begin the search. The hatch is open and it become a coin toss at best for the Killer. Thus, it makes sense tactically to leave the 2nd to last on the ground and hunt down the other Survivor first.
If the Hatch were removed (and many used to suggest this loudly) they would have to have the End Game Collapse start as soon as there was only one Survivor left in the match (rather than closing the hatch). This would mean who has the advantage, Killer or Survivor would depend entirely on how closely the Gates are situated from one another and whether or not there are Perks selected which help in the end game.
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@bluesidesoul said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778054#Comment_3778054
I hope every survivor you slug always gets hatch and that every match is a 4 out. This is insane. In a non competitive mode that's supposed to be fun, still survivors can't escape killers that need "8ks" as if their whole family will die if they don't.
Ok, let's consider carefully what you just said. It brings up questions such as, why do you think any format of this game is non-competitive? It is a 4v1 or 8v2, where one side is supposed to try and escape, and the other is supposed to kill them all. That is the entire game in a nutshell. It doesn't have a non-competitive mode. While some matches happen now and then where the Killer and Survivors decide to farm, that is a mutual choice and not really by design. Next, fun is what you make it. You get out of a game, exactly what you bring into it. If you have decided you can't have fun if the other side is going to bring "maximum effort" as Deadpool would say, it your mindset that is getting in your way.
Your fun should never be predicated on the outcome of the match. Your fun should come from the journey, regardless of the destination. If you don't enjoy the process, then you might have to consider your choice to be in that match in the first place? They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. Do you catch my meaning? There is no Survivor's Rulebook for Killers. You have no authority or entitlement to tell other people how they should be playing. You have the right, of course, to complain and try to shame others all you want. Is that really the way you want us to see you? -
@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777148#Comment_3777148
What? Micromanaging is EXACTLY what people do when they put in a map-offering. What are you even saying? You know what, don't even respond to me because I have absolutely zero interest in wasting more of my time on someone who is constantly talking against their own point, makes baseless statements, and isn't good enough to play the game without needing to decide an important factor of the game for 4 others. Then talk to ME about micro-managing for wanting map-offerings not be a thing LMAO. OKAY BRO. Bait and whatnot, huh.
The difference between you and I is you want to take options away from other Players. I just suggest ways you can mitigate what you don't want. The problem with your arguments is that they are not logically sound. Just admit you want to enforce your views on other people. Doing that is you micromanaging them. I say let people put in their offerings. You can put in yours. What happens, happens.
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@CaulDrohn said:
If you think slugging for the 4k is bad, in 2v8 I had multiple killer duos slugging TWO ppl and trying to find the third one to secure their 8k. THAT is obnoxious!
I know, right? How dare they try to fulfill their objective 100%. Don't they know they are supposed to let some of you go? ;)
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778030#Comment_3778030
Then there is no reason survivors can't have fun, I'm just staying on the line with this post
Everyone preach "you can't play the game without anti tunneling perks" or "you can't play the game when survivors genrush in 3 minutes", so it is quite common and if anything pretty "normal" for majority of players, of course some people can have fun even in those situations
But like, you should know I'm talking about common sense, and not about extreme outliers who feel fun in literally everything of the any games
Commonsense isn't all that common, and you should be made aware that your arguments are poorly constructed. That is why they are not landing as you would like. My point is that spending one's time here ranting and/or venting isn't really all that productive toward having fun in the game. It also isn't particularly effective as an attitude when trying to get better at the game. The first step in dealing with a problem is realizing that YOU have it. People never want to take responsibility for their own enjoyment in the game, or their performance when they fail. I think you should take pride in your victories, but you should also take wisdom from your defeats. Own those losses just like you claim those wins. There is no point whatsoever in lamenting how other people played or the nature of the game itself. If you don't enjoy it, find one you do. I'm assuming you do enjoy it or you wouldn't still be playing. If you are still playing, attack those things vexing you head on by becoming better and overcoming. That is the challenge, and for me personally, that is the fun.
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@Neaxolotl said:
"only play killers" is such a broad terms and basically means nothing, if you play weaker sides of killers consistently, there is no way you can have fun
Really? I play Myers and Trapper mostly, and those are considered to be two of the weakest Killers in the game. I have a blast. Of course, I'm the competitive sort, and enjoy the challenge of overcoming adversity to achieve triumph. What is interested to me is that you seem to feel or imply that "fun" is somehow only possible with having the biggest or the strongest.
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What? You mean I don't already play against nine year olds on a regular basis? ;) I hate to tell you buddy but that ship sailed a long time ago. On a daily basis you play against people barely out of the sandbox, and some so old that they are about to be buried in one. The new Franchise will be just like EVERY franchise that comes to this game. It will breath some new energy in for a quarter while people get new content. People who love the franchise will get their personal hobby horse to ride. The others will just go along, neither here nor there.
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@Xord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778006#Comment_3778006
That's why no one is advocating for punishing players who tunnel, it would make no sense.
We're advocating for changes to be made so that tunneling is either not possible, or not a good tactic anymore.
If tunneling exists but can only results in 3 escapes i'm fine with that.
It's the same thing when in ma multiplayer game people ask for a nerf (even if sometimes people ask for that without data going their way). If a character in, idk, league of legends, is way too strong, is constantly first picked and wins almost all of his games, when asking for a nerf, we're not saying "people shouldn't pick this character". We're saying "people picking this character shouldn't have an automatic win with no skill involved".And as I and others have pointed out most people scream Tunneling when it isn't Tunneling. In those extremely rare cases where it is Tunneling that too is alright. There are strategies the Survivors can adopt. The game is the game. The Dev will decide if and when it gets changed based on whatever mathematical alchemy they utilize. It isn't a great mystery; they tell us what they base it on. The game is going on a decade soon, and have listened to the same tired cries of outrage and salt since it started. It all comes down to sour grapes, and trying to blame one's own losses on other people or the game being unfair. I even was ONE of you when I first start playing the game.
That's right; I took my turn at the podium raging at the powers that be against the cosmic unfairness of the tactics, the bad game design, and anything else I could vent my spleen at. Everything wrong with my gaming experience was someone else's fault. I look back on those days (and posts) with disgust and cringe. Do you want to know what changed? I realized that, "In the immortal words of the ancient Roly Poly elder lords. I had to git guud and stop being a scrub."
I started worrying about what I did in the match. I started trying out strategies, perks, and adopted a style that works for me. Rather than running from maps, or complaining about the other side's tactics, I saw every rough situation as a chance to practice against it. After awhile, I found I was no longer getting tilted, and having fun. Imagine that. It seems that when you spend more time playing the game, rather than ranting about it, you have more fun. That is my advice to you and any other angry person stepping up to the podium. If you stay with this game, you will one day have to look back at your posts and groan. Learn from our mistakes, and just play.
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I honestly believe people can do anything they want within the rules. I don't feel I get to add extra ones or try to shame people for doing things I don't like. I guess I'm ready for the funny farm. :)
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Yes, Dead by Daylight is still fun to me. If it wasn't I'd already be gone. People who continue to play games they hate are weird.
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@Jim_Tonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777760#Comment_3777760
I know all the maps and i dont care which map it is, some are better for certain killers, some favor survivors lol.
Good for you that you get alot of them. I play since 3 years and i have extremely low number on that specific offering, doesnt matter that they are green. And having your own map offering is a 50/50 game if there is another one.
Im indifferent to maps, i like their aesthetic design and i dont have issiues navigating on them either. Only one i despise is hawkins since it follows map layout rules that have been a thing before i started playing this game, when maps were alot more frustrating than they are now.
Suggesting hand offerings doesnt help the people that hate map offerings though.That depends. I can't help them with their "hate," no. I can help them by giving them unvarnished, pragmatic truth. Map Offerings aren't going anywhere. They might as well be demanding that the DEV pay them to play the game. That has just as much chance of happening as Map Offerings going away. What I am suggesting to people who hate map offerings is that they simply learn to live with it, take steps to mitigate it, and accept that there are things in this game that we have no control over. There are lots of things I don't like in the game. I don't generally mention them here because my not liking them, doesn't mean there is anything WRONG with them. It is personal bias and I might as well keep it to myself.
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@Jim_Tonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777090#Comment_3777090
These hand offerings are extremely rare to get, let alone have them every match available.
All due respect, no they are not rare. They are GREEN. I get one every couple of blood webs. I have a TON of them and I actually use them frequently. If I am a regular user of them, and I don't run out, then someone who only uses them every now and then will have some. And no, you shouldn't have to throw them in every single match. Or throw your own darn map offering in because it has just as good a chance of winning over the other map. I'm sure you have LOTS of maps.
Seriously. Learn to play ALL the maps. Then this won't be an issue for anyone. If you learn all the maps why do you care which one you are sent to, regardless of whether it is random or some other Player's fancy? If you find a map hard, you should WANT to play it more often. It is the only way you are going to overcome your limitations on it. As a Killer I used to hate getting Ormond. I started putting it in MYSELF and forcing myself to play Scratch Mirror Myers there. Now I can fight there despite the advantage to Survivor side. Instead of demanding the maps be somehow locked out as an offering, learning to play them is a better option.
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I always slug for the 4K when it is down to two people. Survivors get their big bonus just for escaping as individuals. The Killer only gets it if he kills ALL four. Why don't we change that big bonus at the end to Survivors only getting it if all four escape? ;)
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Definitely Myers. I say that because the force that animates the body of Michael Myers is NOT the boy. It is something else, ancient callous and evil. It "is" the boogeyman. It isn't driven by trivial matters and suddenly becomes active over long periods of time, if/when it feels like it. In that respect it is not unlike Pennywise which might be active for awhile and then go dormant for decades. The motivations and victims chosen are at random, perhaps or perhaps not.
My point is Myers chose to enter the Entity's domain. The door was open, Myers recognized what it was, and didn't care. it walked in willingly and one would presume if/when it wants it could leave too. You have to be careful about what you invite inside your front door. The force that animates Michael Myer's body, like Pennywise, might very well be a cosmically powerful, alien entity itself. Like several other such potentates, Myers kills whenever he wants to do so and is not reliant on the Entity's permission.
I say Myers because we still, to this very day, don't know what is behind the eyes of Michael Myers and in that "not knowing" there is an iceberg of which we can only see the tip.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777135#Comment_3777135
What a baseless argument you're trying to make. You do understand that EVERYTHING in this game is RNG based, right? Just because your BW happens to have a lot of sac wards, doesn't mean everyone else's does. And again, the sac ward doesn't block the map always, there is always a chance of you STILL going to that map. I even have screenshots of it happening multiple times. Case in point:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OWSM6LLAI448/afbeelding.png
Yes, I answered this already above. Scroll back and you will see. However, what we are talking about is whether or not there is a statistical issue or are these statistical outliers? Map Offerings are not a problem, nor have they ever been a problem. You have tools to try and mitigate them. You could also take your own advice and play custom games if you don't like the fact people might try to influence where you go. Statistically, you have a better chance (far better) of stopping a map offering if you try than they have of forcing it. You may indeed stop it, and then randomly get sent to that same map. It is ironic and funny, but very true.
I never understand why people get so passionate and want to die on some hill over these kinds of issues in the game. There are actual problems like hackers which deserve attention. Getting sent to a map you don't like now and then is just well, a nothing burger.
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It is true that when you use a Sacrificial Ward you MIGHT still get sent to a map offering someone put in, but that doesn't mean the Sacrificial Ward didn't work. It just means you randomly still got that map. This topic comes up off and on over the years. If you don't like Map Offerings, you can try to stop them. There are lots of things I don't like seeing put in, either as add-ons, maps, etc. but I accept it is part of the game. Sometimes I like to throw in a map. Sometimes I ride the lightning to do it random. Usually I end up going where someone sends me with their offering. It has not affected my enjoyment of the game.
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@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777143#Comment_3777143
you literally called me entitled and made assumptions on my thought process.
"makes you a busybody who feels entitled" ~ you
That isn't a personal attack. It is a statement of fact, which I can support by quoting you over and over again throughout this topic. I'm not making any assumptions about your thought processes. I'm taking you literally at your words/posts. You seem fixated on what other people are doing in their matches. You feel they shouldn't be doing certain things. That is the definition of a busybody, and your beliefs about what should be is also the definition of entitlement. We are, however, getting away from the point. Do you find any fault in my suggestion that your time would be better spent worrying about your own playstyle rather than that of other people? Can you explain why you feel you are the person best suited to decide how other people should not be playing? I'm not being mean here. I'm trying to make a point, because I believe personal bias is clouding your judgement and taking you down a road that you neither intend nor realize.
We have all had bad games where the tactics rubbed us wrong. We all get tilted from time to time. These experiences do not mean there is a problem with the game, nor with what the other Player did. I just go by what I was taught in Kindergarten and remember that my personal say and responsibility is ME. I am not the boss of other people.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777090#Comment_3777090
No, the ratio of sac ward and the players who bring map offerings differs a lot. There is literally no need to allow one side choose a specific map, if you want to do it that bad go play customs where you can micro-manage the entire lobby.
My point is that it doesn't have to differ. Someone could bring a Sacrificial Ward every match they they so chose, and certainly as often as someone puts in a map offering. It is a choice. Micromanging a Lobby would be trying to outlaw choices, kind of like what is being suggested here. The DEV give us tools to do MOST of the things we claim we need. It isn't their fault or a failing of the game that we choose not to use them more often than not. I use the Sacrificial Ward all the time. :)
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@bleep275 said:
yes they do balance it around the results. however, tunneling is a behavior that directlt effects the results of a match. so, if the behavior effects the results, and the results are what is being used for balance. then this is a behavior that can be influenced by balance changes. If the results of killers losing frequently, result in the behavior of tunneling. then the opposite must be true.
also what's with the personal attack dude? chill
I haven't made any personal attacks on you. I have addressed your arguments and made a statement of fact about your insistence on policing other people. For example, what you said above is not logically sound. I could break down those sentences, line by line, and show you why that doesn't mean what you think it means, and why you are simply wrong, but that would be mean and over the top. The DEV have stated, MANY times, the overall Kill/Escape Rate they are looking for and have even provided percentages. Those numbers are being hit by the game in a fairly reliable way with all the current tactics in the game. As it happens, the DEV favor a slightly higher Kill rate than Survival based on the theme of the game itself. So if the game ain't broke, they don't try to fix it. Seems like a reasonable approach. I'm going to point out, again, that you should focus on what YOU do in the game.
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@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777111#Comment_3777111
If youre not gonna be constructive dont comment. im not talking about last minute desperate kill. im talking about those who only ever tunnel the entirety of the match. noone will be mad if one dude is tunneled at the end of the match.
What are you talking about here? His comment was to the point. He may have delivered it with humor, but what he is suggesting is quite correct. You are making the suggestion that the game never requires any tactics YOU personally find toxic. Moreover, you indicate that you are a Killer that never had to use said tactics and manage to achieve great results. The person you are responding to is, far kinder than me, and is at least giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are honest in that regard. They constructively point out that most people are NOT able to get consistent results playing by your version of the Survivor's Handbook. The argument is sound, even if sarcastic.
I'm more direct and less kind. I don't believe you when you make such statements, an opinion which is entirely my own. And even if I did believe you, I would point out that you don't get to decide how OTHERS should be playing based on yourself.