Rulebreaker
Rulebreaker
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While we agree with most points, we feel that most people think he's weak because once survivors have the momentum, Hux is effectively a m1 with security cameras.
He can be downright oppressive in the right hands and is definitely hard to use (we sure as **** haven't managed to learn him well enough), but as everyone keeps saying EMPs can be everywhere [with a bit of prep] and kick most the strength out of him against competent survivors. EMPs clean slipstream off everyone , can be used on the run, and cause a minute of downtime to any pod within range (dont know exact time but its a looong while for a killer) with no cost to the survivors other than running to grab one (or speed up printing but since they also auto print...) and just to add salt to our wounds they dont even need to drop their item.
Just our 2 cents
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The point is everyone has different views. There are some who just enjoy "winning" by any means necessary, everything else be damned. Not saying it's the best mentality but it's understandable in that they will do whatever they want, which in this case is to 4K everyone, anyway.
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In addition to many of the above, vaulting into a locker. We want over the wall not into the coffin.
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It's not AS bad as people complain but it's definitely not a nice map for killers. As survivor we get confused but that's more due to it being new.
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We dislike some of the loops as killer (double window to pallet) but it looks stunning. It even is slightly interactive (shot a plant and it got ....sad?)
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Sadako turns into The Keeper from Evil Within. Teleport to safes and making everyone suffer with the metal screeching~ (and mallet. never forget the mallet)
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449667#Comment_3449667
"Why nerf it to begin with?"
Because knowing where every map resource is at all times is a massive advantage.
Because as I said before, the game isn't balanced around running optimally every chase.
Because it incentivises braindead hold W chases instead of taking full advantage of whatever tiles are closest to you. Without GPS guiding you to the next resource, you have to weigh the risks of leaving your current tile where you know you have something to work with vs the next tile that could have nothing. You might even have to consider taking a few seconds to check your surrounding tiles instead of immediately slamming the closest gen.
@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450231#Comment_3450231
I'm not here to say nerf windows but zanshin is far less useful for killer than WoO is for survivors. A survivor can't see every pallet that gets dropped by their teamates but a killer can remember every pallet that's been dropped.
Yet at the same time Zanshin can tell when theres alot of resourses for survivors to use, meaning drop them after burning some resources (or keep going cause theres little). What we've been hearing is that Windows is "OP" cause of things like this:
@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449667#Comment_3449667
"Why nerf it to begin with?"
Because knowing where every map resource is at all times is a massive advantage.
Because as I said before, the game isn't balanced around running optimally every chase.
Because it incentivises braindead hold W chases instead of taking full advantage of whatever tiles are closest to you. Without GPS guiding you to the next resource, you have to weigh the risks of leaving your current tile where you know you have something to work with vs the next tile that could have nothing. You might even have to consider taking a few seconds to check your surrounding tiles instead of immediately slamming the closest gen.
Its just getting...sad? Theres ways to counter it, ways to play around it, hell theres an EQUAL for killers if they use their heads, yet we see nerf this and that.
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We know that this might distract from the topic, but those saying nerf Windows, what about Zanshin Tactics? Does it not effectively do the same thing as windows?
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Rarest this year (all 6 months) is Hag. Have seen everyone else including twins, but not a single hag (not counting customs).
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Depends on what the situation is. For example if we hook by a powered gate then we're not gona leave, but if they're hooked far enough away we'll happily go hunting.
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Yes, but somethin odd might be happening to the servers or something as well. I've been kicked from lobbies saying i've been disconnected while my wi-fi is stable (discord still running, checked other monitor for connection and still there, no storms in the area, havent had any problems with other games)
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In fairness to the OP, this has happened to me too (enough that im now sitting on a 13 min timmer from the past 2 days and am pritty much done for the week)
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@SirCracken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447334#Comment_3447334
Yeah, a dumpster fire of poor arguments. I had no idea I'd be kicking the hornet's nest when making this thread.
Later I'll be creating a massive complication of all of the counter-arguments in this thread and the problems with many of them. If I don't die from a brain haemorrhage in the process, it should be up later today.
Get a medkit ready
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@illNicola said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445888#Comment_3445888
Pop right now has no value, it will have value after the patch
Thana useless
Call of brine and overcharge both 0 value
Eruption is decent but 10% without blocking gen is not that much. For a down, if it doesn't block the gen at least a decent regression since 10% is nothing
Pain resonance in my opinion was better with 15% unlimited, but I need to try it
Deadlock is countered by genrush, my last matches ended up with 6 gens made so deadlock was useless
For pentimento you need to run a specific build, and against swf is useless/not strong since they remember which totem they broke during the game
Corrupt gives no value, since in my opinion it's just stupid that it goes off after the first down, since you as killer want to down survs as quickly as possible, so I don't see why a perk should deactivate if I'm doing my job well.
Am I forgetting something?
Yes. yes you are but we dout you'll listen:
Pop has value now and is getting more soon
Brine and overcharge have value if they stay off the gen long enough
Eruption is still decent
While we prefer old pain, this one is also good
Deadlock both works and slows down genrush so idk what your doing there
We dont realy count penti as a slowdown but if you want then yes it requires a specific build for a good slowdown and even swfs will have a hard time finding it depending on when you light it (aka dont light it asap)
Corrupt gives a blocker, meaning they cant be worked on, meaning value. Also since its on down and not injure if you spread pain to everyone then on 1st down theres 1-3 others injured and 3 garneted non touched gens.
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Well this is amusing. From this post and the last we read, it seems you just do not like the game period.
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@illNicola said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445074#Comment_3445074
Since slowdown are useless right now... No.
I hope pop remain with 30% after the next patch, finally it can shine again
You realize the only slowdown thats "useless" right now is Ruin correct? Every other slowdown is still useful, just not to the extent as before.
Besides we answered the question, heck we even answered correctly~
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The point of using slowdowns is to slowdown the game.
Are we helping yet?~
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@MimiDBD said:
Wouldn't buffing survivors if the killer hooks the same survivor back to back help? Let's say for example survivors repair 5-10% faster if the killer is not spreading hooks? Like wise survivors repair slower/Mini GE (gen block) if they are spreading solve the issue of tunneling. Suddenly tunneling is not the best strat and killer lower tier killers can finally get the buffs they need. Wouldn't game health be at an all time high? This idea took me 5 seconds to think of so please tell me I am missing something.
Side note - % subject to change/update.
Problem 1 is that when a survivor either throws themselves to the killer. Are killers supposed to just ignore the prey throwing themselves up or slug (which is often complained about)?
Problem 2 is those unlucky enough to run into the killer again. Despite them not specifically going for the unhooked survivor they found them after a minute or 2 without finding any sneaky teammates. Similar to the above.
Problem 3 the buff to gen speed doesn't solve the problem of 1 guy being chases the whole game or that it requires the others to be on gens. On the other hand adding a reward like slower gens would have to be better than having a survivor out, which would be pretty hard.
Having both would hurt tunneling but not really stop it. Still disappointed that most think tunneling is the only way to win.
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It's oddly balanced in our opinion (though we personally hate it aside from aesthetics). The main building is super safe if survivors know how to run it while it and the "town" needs prepped by everyone but nurse unless they want to spend a lot longer in chases. That said after everything is done it's a small open map with few safe place to loop except the saloon.
It's survivor sided that becomes killer sided like the game. Only easier to make it that way.
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442678#Comment_3442678
I’m very passionate about how dumb I can be. But it’s been on my mind for a bit and needed to rant. I’m just trying to figure out why killers never get huge QOL changes while survivors seem to get them every few months.
BHVR does something like nerfing gen kicking builds, fair enough pure gen kicking was annoying with some killers. But they don’t buff some of their lesser used chase or defense perks. Making it a Harder nerf than is needed. A simple QOL would be a Killer Perk update to the lesser 50% used perks.
Killers have been asking for a rework for hexes for years now. Considering how easy it is to destroy one or boon one, but they don’t talk about it.
It just feels like they do things for survivors without thinking about the next step a lot of the time. Kinda like the Basekit unbreaking they talked about last year. It sounds good on paper but in practice would’ve ruined the games central core. (I know slugging is an issue but could you effectively down three people and chase the forth and still have enough time to hook one of them before 45 seconds?) I agree slugging needs to be looked at but that was just not going to help. It would just make killers not want to play.
To be fair, universal killer buffs need to take into account each killer as they all play differently. Survivors are basically costumes stuffed with perks and can be easily enough changed without any major outliers.
As for the anti-slug, that's what the PTB is for.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442463#Comment_3442463
that would be so sick
We see it now. Clucking instead of screeching~ And chicken noises for swarms~
(DEVS PLEASE MAKE THIS HAPPEN)
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@NerfDHalready said:
artist? but those are crows
Does this mean we're getting a rooster 🐓 skin? We wana be a OP birdie~
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Varies by what we got burnt out by. Toxic players? A day or 2 of something else and back to cleaning. Seeing the exact same thing 10 matches in a row? Give us a week and good as new.
This is a long the lines of a "default" game for when we got nothing better.
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@Sometimes_Sage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442397#Comment_3442397
Only focusing on gens while ignoring everything else... having tunnel vision aimed at the gens, so to speak... I just can't think of a snappy term for that...
Ohh let us guess
Was it gen tunneling? Rush gen? Gen vision?!
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438496#Comment_3438496
To begin with, questions are not implications. That is a personal interpretation, and in this case, not accurate to the motive.
You state "we responded". Who is "we", in this context? The community as a whole? No, see both thumbs and comments in agreement with my position. So, who are you referring to, exactly? Less than a half-dozen out of tens of thousands of players?
The question itself is extraordinarily simple and honest; "Do you find playing Killer fun?"
If the answer is "yes", there is nothing to discuss. It is an impasse. If there are a significant number of players who agree with you, enough to keep the game healthy and viable, there is both no problem and no real warrant to argue against a fringe position. Who cares about an insignificant minority?
If, however, the answer is "no" ... there is an issue worth debate.
In short, you state playing Killer is fine. I am offering feedback on how to keep more Killers, which you assert isn't necessary as the role is fine as-is. So what is the point of argument? By your own definition, everything is healthy and there are no problems, ergo my stance is irrelevant.
If everything is great, why bother to respond to me? You have plenty of Killers.
First questions can be implications and these seem as such and accurate to our motive. Your intention is unknown to us and as such we interpret them as implications.
The "we" is this account (shared by 3). Nobody can speak for the whole community. Thats just obviously stupid.
"So you feel removing Locker saves made the game notably more fun for you to play Killer? Because that was the question, right?"
This is the question that sparked us and reading back you also said this:
"The changes have not taken into account enjoyment of the Killer role. All changes have been centered around increasing the enjoyment of the Survivor role. If you change the core of your game mechanic (which is fine), you have to ensure the new core is still fun for both sides.
Killer isn't fun as it is now. (Well, most Killers.)"
We have not seen "feedback" as more "statements" saying nothing is geared towards enjoyment of killers. If we missed something, by all means point it out directly and will happily eat our words (our brains are simple, should be direct and easy).
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Personally I want a blend of the two or something like dead dawg. Its to dang bright for a game like this but all the small things look better in my eyes. Like and actual farmstead in the country instead of one near a bog (maybe it was near blackwater).
For us (as in the 3 stodges of Rulebreakers) we don't have much nostalgia due to how we see alot of players play lately (first hook suicides, every killer running and doing the same damn ****, you get the drill) but we do miss the crazy things we could do in the past (instant heal drive by, jumpscare Freddy) along with little things (spirit phasing through windows). Everything is slowly becoming....standardized? Probably not the word we'd want but good enough.
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Sadly the cycle will go on and on till the game drops dead. Though there are better players out there, so there's a sliver of hope yet.
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Inserting our opinions and reasons now:
- Artist worst would be grim pantry. The various elevation dips and rises makes hitting longer shots alot harder than the game which is 2 flat floors.
- We don't disagree really but could argue rotten fields for worst as there's nil to bounce off of but shack.
- Cannibal would argue lerys or mother's dwelling as there's a lot to collide on easily as worst. Best we argue rotten fields as most survivors will be dropped if not near a usable loop.
- Slinger we argue for Campbell's chapel as worst due to there being just enough to always block out shots.
- Ghost face worst would be borgo or the saloon as there's little way to stealth to survivors.
- Hag we think lerys is best while boneyard is the worst. Easy to set traps that cover multiple paths on lerys while easy to spot and go round on eyrie.
- Legion worst feels more towards RPD. Harder to chain hits there than azarovs at least.
- Nemesis worst probably isn't borgo (we do well there and zombies do work without risk of being stuck on it's own) but we don't really have any particular map in mind for being awful for him. Best also probably isn't Haddonfield but again, nothing specific comes up.
- Pig we think the best is lerys as we can choose stealth or normal and keep flipping.
- Shape we feel entirely depends on what your running to make a best or worst map.
- Spirit we'd say temple of purgation or some other huge map. She can cross distance easily enough but she can't see targets while moving super fast. The game is annoying, but not really awful for her.
- Trapper we're arguing for boneyard as worst for similar reasons to hag. Best map we could argue midwitch. Long as the trap is up in the right areas survivors eat hits or downs with narrow halls and easily blocked loops.
- We always play trickster with bouncing blades so we're going to skip this for this reason.
- Wraith doesn't really have a good or bad map to us.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438071#Comment_3438071
So you feel removing Locker saves made the game notably more fun for you to play Killer? Because that was the question, right?
Or do you feel like it was deemed exploitive, and was a needed "patch"?
Do you feel like it wasn't needed?
Do you also feel Killer has become more fun over the games history? All of 'em? Hag, Sadako, and Trapper, too?
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438102#Comment_3438102
Whoa, were did I type any of that?
I asked if that poster felt it made the game more fun for Killer, and you projected everything else, lol.
Why do so many posters on this forum project argument the quoted poster didn't make? It was a question for the person responded to.
I'm assuming you felt that change made Killer more fun to play?
As to PH, I don't even own that Killer. I don't see how any specific changes to him make the role of Killer more fun in the general sense, but if I am missing something, please let me know.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438046#Comment_3438046
What changes, since 2018, do you feel have been geared toward the enjoyment of Killers?
Nobody finds gen regression perks "fun". Nobody ever sat mid-game yelling "Ruin!!!! OH YEAH!!". They were a crutch to help offset the long chases and/or long setup times required.
You also realize I'm not the sole voice of this stance, correct? Just see this page in this thread alone.
Do you honestly find most Killers "fun" if you are even attempting to be competitive in-game?
The implications of each is that killers fun had no impact on any of the decisions made or has made the game fun for that side.
And we responded to this despite not typing it because we dislike (as in reaaaaly dislike) how lately everything we read feel like nonsense.
Yes, having locker saves removed definitely made it better and more fun.
As for the pH, you didn't specify in general (that we saw anyway so we may have missed it) but it's a change that's geared towards the fun of a killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438071#Comment_3438071
So you feel removing Locker saves made the game notably more fun for you to play Killer? Because that was the question, right?
Or do you feel like it was deemed exploitive, and was a needed "patch"?
Do you feel like it wasn't needed?
Do you also feel Killer has become more fun over the games history? All of 'em? Hag, Sadako, and Trapper, too?
So taking into account how miserable those locker saves could make killers feel had absolutely no impact on the enjoyment of killers? What about the various changes to DS and recently DH? Not geared towards what most killers want as it technically wasn't needed since it didn't break the game? Needed and making it fun for killers can fall under the same category.
Lets throw something from the ptb notes. Pyramid head can soon inflict torment with punishment. Is it needed? Nope. Does it make him more fun to play? For us its atleast a yep.
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@Bartlaus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424237#Comment_3424237
Some people also confuse belief with knowledge. However, as long as the semantics do not change, we will continue to distinguish between facts and opinions.
Bright side sometimes it makes a hilarious show
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@Mr_K said:
Devs gave survivors a perk to deal with camping and they abused it to annoy the killer instead of punishing a camping killer.
That is why you can't have nice things.
The story of everything in DBD
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Personally, we feel it's the players (cheats, DC/suicide, general toxicity) followed by maps.
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424024#Comment_3424024
The earth revolves around the sun. Thats a fact. What is so confusing to you?
To be fair, the fact (ha) that most people think their opinions are facts makes it seem like the definition of fact is in fact changing.
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@Jejune said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423593#Comment_3423593
I dont see people healing others with medkits so they failed.
*shrug* don't hook the messenger, we're just parroting what we heard.
And to be fair, we do use medkits on others often enough
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Honestly we feel it's a wash overall. Street is death while it's easy to get a 3 gen even by accident while the houses are PAIN for a lot of killers and can burn so much time.
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We heard from somewhere that the devs were trying to push medkits to being more for altruistic healing rather than selfish but wanted it to be an option. Whether or not it's true, who knows.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423530#Comment_3423530
1) Killers got a lot basekit buffs too.
2) A lot survivor perks gutted as well.
3) This perk is pretty meh. You can not even activate it for basement camping without being seeing by killers which will end with hit or down.
4) Nurse nerfs did not fix her issues. She is still ignoring all core game mechanics. She nerfed from S - tier to S - tier.
5) This was good first step for making solo-q better but ofcourse this is not good enough.
6) I don't know why you added this lol. This mechanic added for people who has hearing issues. You were already hearing killer's TR, it is not survivor buff. It is QoL change.
- While true, survivor got the equivalent of a watered down "meta" perk which frees a perkslot.
- Also true which is why we would like to point out both sides got perks nerfed and buffed.
- It does it's job and baring things like a 99 Meyers or going injured headfirst to basement, the killer isn't going to get a hit or down easy.
- This is opinion based so to each their own
- Why not?
- Think they added this because some tr like slingers are hard to hear unless close. Also I'm pretty sure some leave it on for a easier warning.
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May we ask how many times you've seen irri tag? May we also ask how many times you've seen dh save a survivor from a down?
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To sum up, engaging interactions with some unpredictably.
As a killer we want a hunt and to play with the prey. We like to see if the survivor have skill (or brains) to out play or outsmart us. A chase where we see everything coming is dull. A survivor running towards us and taunting us to chase them is dull and particularly dumb. Can they lose us or rely on a super strong loop? Can they chain loops or predrop? Can they flashlight save proper or are they going to waste time being obvious with it? We enjoy a chance with surprises.
As survivor we like being able to do things and be surprised. We like taking some risks for fun and style like end game saves with the timer going but simply getting camped on hook (or seeing someone else camped) isn't really engaging or can have many surprises.
We can have fun even if we lose long as it was a good game.
To the last paragraph, both sides tend to have a good number of people who just complain because they "lost". Better to ignore the haters.
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On the off chance that you and your team are competent enough to win? If nothing else you really should see how the game goes before calling it an instant loss.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423429#Comment_3423429
Survivors: camping and tunneling are a problem.
Killers: gen speeds are too fast
Devs: adds base time to all gens
Killers: DS is unfair
Devs: nerf DS into obscurity
Killers: dead hard is op
Devs: nerf dead hard
Killers: dead hard is still op
Devs: nerf dead hard again
Killers: healing is too powerful
Devs: obliterate circle of healing and global self healing nerf
Survivors: so, uh, can we do something about the camping and tunneling thing?
Devs: here's a HUD so you can see your teammates opening chests.
Killers: since this works so well, gen speeds are a problem again.
This is the definition of moving the goal post.
You realize that survivors effectively did the same thing right?
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We've recently come back from a valheim binge so its abit mixed. Averaging around 8 hook states almost every game as killer while kills vary (abit rusty). Solo survivor feels the same (teammates seem to be throwing slightly more but thats hardly new), swf feels slightly better but that maybe due to us doing "finish 3 gens" rift challenge and seeing first hand how hex totems can heavily backfire (was disgusting and hilarious how fast 2 people can burn through a gen with overzealous and prove).
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In terms of amount of hate they get, Blight is probably the least hated by both sides from everyone listed as most people only have problems with his add ons and seeing him too much from what we've seen. Honorable mention goes to Dredge, It doesn't get much hate from either side either and is more recent than blight.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3419305#Comment_3419305
It's not assuming it's a fact by now, I see it all the time 8/10 SM's are camping 3 gens. I go in a match and ask myself why the killer didn't come to our area so long? then I go and see 3 drones far away and realize "oh again .. nice"
By your admission, 1/5 (2/10) sm are not camping 3 gens. That means your not guaranteed to a camping one. Fact is that she can do it, not fact that she will or is competent enough against the survivors facing her.
We get you (and 90+% of ppl) do not like the 3 gen camp. Does not mean scorched earth policy is needed for her just because other players are uncreative.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3419245#Comment_3419245
They say it because u know the outcome of the match which is boring. at least against nurse she will destroy u in 3 minutes and u move next but with SM u gotta wait 20-30 minutes or just dc or suicide.
They think they know. Even if the merchant camps the 3 gen straight away, if they suck then it's not even a 30 min game. People just assume that every merchant plays the same. While we can't deny a lot of them DO play the slough game, fact still is it's a player problem, not on merchant herself.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3419226#Comment_3419226
Many people agreed she's worth deleting. in other posts as well, but I also suggested a full rework while she's killswitched by the time it's done.
True but look at the reason why they say it.
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If someone hits another with a bat, do you blame the bat or the person? Merchant herself is fine, but the way people play her is annoying. Not worth deleting, reworked maybe, but not deleted.
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There still can be a diversity of styles, it's just most are scared to learn and try. There still are sabos, medics, loopers, etc, but most just feel like the only way you can play is efficient and anything else is a loss. It's like the opposite side of the coin for killers thinking tunneling out a person immediately is the only way. People don't want to risk "Lossing" which leads to both sides complaining about "boring gameplay". But that's just our thoughts on the mater.
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If we may request a recording? That would seem entertaining to watch.