RonMan32
RonMan32
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- RonMan32
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Gotta say I really like the Light & Heavy pallets. Reminds me of a crumbling window idea I saw here in the forums. Both would make really interesting additions.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212493#Comment_3212493
"Honestly that's one of the reasons there's nothing for Deathslinger. I just don't know enough about his kit, but unlike Artist I've never tried to learn more either, so didn't feel at all comfortable making any changes (and sadly I will not ever willingly revert the nerfs without changing a lot because that version of Slinger made me want to tear my hair out in frustration)."
From a comment on Page 2. You'll notice that Ghostface and Legion are also lacking (and probably some others) - I simply don't play them enough to know what I'd change, and I've never tried to either.
For Legion it's slightly different. My Legion consultant was my ex and since we broke up like 3 months ago (?) I haven't played them nor do I have someone to speak to about it lmao.
But genuinely, I don't know enough about Deathslinger to make proper changes and I'm not reverting the nerfs simply because I absolutely despised old Slinger.
Despising old 'slinger is fair. Poor guy needs changes more than most of the killers you did actual propose changes for though.
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@kizuati said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212493#Comment_3212493
Removed Deathslinger's ammo as having a gun proved to be too strong.
There,the unspoken change we all wanted
Thanks.
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"It literally does not matter if Shadowborn being implemented as a base kit 15° FOV slider gives an advantage."
I hard disagree with this statement. It does matter. The question is does it matter enough that a slider should not be added? I think so. I don't consider FOV an accessibility setting (in other games it's a graphical and visual preference option) and since the devs seem to be caring about accessibility to some extent lately I think they agree. You seem to think of anyone who disagrees with you as inconsiderate, claiming the main counters of "those people still have the option available in the game as is" as a "not an even remotely defensible position". In other threads about this issue you often use strawmans to further disregard the takes of someone other than yours.
I'm mainly putting this message here as a protest for the devs to see incase this post gains any traction. Since you are clearly uninterested in starting an actual dialog with those who see value in the intentionally designed tunnel vision of the killer role I won't be responding further.
All of that said, as someone who struggles more with Killer than Survivor I ultimately would benefit from the addition of an FOV slider. What I would lose as survivor would be overshadowed by what I would gain as killer. My stance is that ultimately adding an FOV slider would be a move to further kill stealthy plays, but not one I would mourn much and I'd almost approve of it's addition even if I think it qualifies as a survivor nerf/killer buff that moves the overall balance undesirably. I don't want an FOV slider to be added but if it is the TANGIBLE ADVANTAGE of having a slider would keep me quiet basically. If I only played the one role (survivor) I would EXTREMELY oppose this change.
At least replace Shadowborn with an actually good teachable (ALL of Wraiths teachables suck) and give Monitor and Abuse a different additional effect.
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I'm a tad baffled at the lack of Deathslinger changes given the sheer amount of killers you did tweak. Every killer you mentioned needs changes and Deathslinger is perfect? You have a lot of interesting changes but as a 'slinger main I was disappointed to not find any wacky cool changes for him.
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@Sharpefern said:
OhTofu did a video on sabo squad and it doesnt seem to work any better than it does now. Like current sabo squad its annoying af but the killers were consistantly getting 2+ kills
I'll check it out. Thanks for the info!
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/348763/the-responses-to-flashlight-changes
I'm not surprised. I will never forget that thread earlier this year where a guy claimed his nephew or something had a seizure from stuff like this, and some of the most upvoted posts in the thread were people blaming the guy and his relative and defending keeping stuff like that in. Genuinely the one thread here that has made me angry.
Of course, a lot seem to have pivoted to the argument that it's not REALLY about accessibility. Usually these posts show the poster doesn't really understand photo sensitivity at all.
I'm honestly on the line of thinking that they did this change mainly for the sake of removing it as a DMing tool and the Photosensitivity as a bonus they focused for PR. That said, I'm just gut feeling here against the words of the devs. Everyone should assume it's for accessibility, Regardless of if that is their reasoning or not it's a change that should be kept for both reasons. That being no Flashlight Macro and no seizures induced by flashlight. Either on it's own is a good enough reason to keep the change/make it in the first place. There's no reason someone could provide for removing it that trumps either, especially not the photosensitivity concerns.
There's no way survivor mains are going to be able to complain their way out of this one. BHVR would look like such pricks for backpedaling on an ACCESSIBILITY change they already announced just because some jerks on twitter wanna BM.
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@dugman said:
This actually does probably belong in the PTB forum since it’s all about comparing the PTB version of the game with the current version. But that’s up to the mods. 🤷♂️
Anyway, I agree that the new system isn’t really going to change most matches. There are some corner cases with the slugging changes where sometimes a survivor can get up that they might not otherwise and with dedicated sabotage Unbreakable swfs being a bit annoying but most games won’t be those. And the Last Standing Mori wins are all games that the survivors were definitely going to lose soon after nobody wS standing. I have yet to see a game on the PTB where the survivors could feasibly have come back from that. So all the new Last Standing does is speed up the cleanup part of the endgame where the killer hooks the last dying survivor or two or chases down a last straggler.
If they move it I'll just post my findings from the live game by themselves, linking to the new home of this post.
Anyway yeah I agree. I think it could use some tweaking though. I think Twins is going to suffer and the opportunities the new auto-end might kill is a bummer.
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@C3Tooth said:
2 survivors, Dwight is dying crawling close to Exit, Clau tries to heal tech, tank hit.
- Old: Clau can take 1 last hit and both crawling out.
- New: any moment Clau exit before Dwight result Dwight moried, or unlucky enough if Clau down backward, both die
Huntress aim a survivor running close to Exit at range, and hit them.
- Old: there is a chance that survivor will able to crawl out if Huntress if far enough.
- New: Moried
Trapper with Honing stone, 2 survivors left, Dwight running to gate, Clau in chase. Dwight steps on a trap at gate, Clau down not long later
- Old: Dwight could escape from trap, dying, crawl out and escape
- New: Moried
2 survivors left, Killer forcing the Clau out for the game, while the Dwight dying in trial.
- Old: there is a slight chance of God RNG will spawn hatch right next to Dwight, and escape
- New: Moried
2 survivors left, Dwight dying on the ground, Clau down near Dwight, killer pick up Clau.
- Old: there is possible play of Unbreakable to flash light save and both of them escape.
- New: Dwight has to pick himself up and escape, or die if Clau down.
2-3 survivors down and crawling to exit
- Old: killers have to pick up, drop, manage hook play to get 2-3 kills
- New: 3K
Probably more of these scenarios. But I can only think of these for now
I think situations like these happen often enough, and trump over the utility of old Moris that you could accurately describe the auto end mechanic as a buff to killer. That said it's not a tremendous one.
That last situation I actually had happen not too long ago. Had 3 people slugged at gate. They all made it out because I got greedy and kept picking them up and dropping them, hoping for EGC to get them. New conditions turn that game into a 4k instead of a 1k.
The new conditions would also turn a Deathslinger game I had the other day from a 2k to a 3k. I forced a Rebecca out, went back to pick up an Ada I had to drop and then she got the wiggle, beelined for the exit gate and I beefed my shot to stop her.
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At the moment crossplay off only puts you in matches with other people that have crossplay off. It should try and put you into matches w/ people who have it on if there is hardly anyone with it off.
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@ShinobuSK said:
One day you will be able to leave and be replaced by a bot that will stay on hook to the last second.
Would be funny if killer wouldnt realize it
Devs said no in the Q&A.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208829#Comment_3208829
In a way sure. Your completely skipping the giant tentacle that comes from him. Also I wouldn't call any off the killers in dbd scary. Is pretty obvious you haven't play much if any RE because I think you would have a better understanding of wesker himself.
I love RE4 playing it both on PC via remaster and the VR version. I've seen a full playthrough of RE5, which is what this version of him is based on. He's a dork. RE5 is more like an action movie than a horror. Truly an odd departure for the series.
I'm willing to admit that whether he fits or not is not only subjective, but doesn't even matter at this point because plenty of the killers in this game don't fit great with the original vibe trapper set up. But I don't have a worse "understanding of Wesker" than you. Your opinion isn't more informed than mine, it's just different.
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BLTN? Never heard of that perk.
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@jesterkind said:
To be fair, it's not as though they can actually meaningfully test any new balance or content changes considering there's the gigantic and tenuous anti-slug and finishing mori changes in this PTB.
This is a fair point actually. Anything to be learned from a bunch of perk or basekit changes might be irrelevant or at least overshadowed by the mori system stuff.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207677#Comment_3207677
He's a highly trained super human that has murdered many many people. Sounds like a horror character to me. Trickster is still a mass murderer. We have killers like Trapper,huntress , even nurse that are human looking and almost every way. Wesker isn't really that out of place.
He's a super villain basically. A super villain in an evil mastermind suit with leather gloves. Maybe in the 60s that was terrifying.
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eventually every perk in the game will be basekit and no one will have any idea what the hell is going on
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@Edilibs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207772#Comment_3207772
It is because lets say im running a Sabo build (which i do) that is adamant about saving people from getting hooked. If the exit gated are powered and or opened and the killer "tries" to hook the survivor they cant because im on it as a master Sabo user but because they have a mori (offering) i cant save that person and they are just dead.
Same thing goes for flashlight masters. They cant get the save or rather get the opportunity to go fot the save bc of the mori. Do you see why this is a problem and why i say its a lack of skill and or ability?
Last gen about to get popped and i have DS/Unbreakable? Doesnt matter because the killer just waited for the unhook and waited out the base bt and downed the survivor and then they deserved that kill they will get with the burned offering (mori)? I dont think so. This is my stance on moris and i doubt you or anyone can change it because i have been able to counter every argument justifying its usage.
I can kinda see that but calling it a "crutch" I think is still inaccurate.
There's nothing skillful about facing against a wall, running madgrit or iron grasp, dropping the survivor infront of the hook and getting it later or just creating pressure with a slug. Flashlight saves and sabo plays are kind of last ditch desperation plays that only consistently work at mid and low MMR that I personally find kind of luck based at times? Sure Mori's kill even the opportunity but "crutch" is hyperbolic. That killer still wins that match (or at least secures that kill) with or without the Mori. It just skips a step and denies the possibility for plays on the survivors part that usually only work against less skillful killers or if it's a full sabo SQUAD doing something more coordinated.
But again as you said earlier this is just my experience in the game and you've found something else to be the case. I don't think Mori's need a "nerf" but they're getting one. I hardly care either way.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207859#Comment_3207859
For free? No way
But for auric cells? Definitely, it could be a gold mine for them if they were to sell them in packs or individually
Actually good idea. I could see them doing this and I'd be cool with it tbh. As long as they're not like legendary skin prices.
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@roundpitt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207854#Comment_3207854
I didn't claim they are doing that. There was a question mark at the end of that sentence.
I see. Well anyway I'd love 3 per but I don't seem them even giving killers ONE extra Mori.
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@roundpitt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207843#Comment_3207843
Yea I don't think they are going to do that, but if they are making Mori's happen more frequently then it's something that needs to happen. Those Mori's are going to get old REAL quick.
I agree but where does the claim that they ever said they would make new Mori's come from?
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There is no way they said they would add 10 per killer. If you can find proof I'd be very interested. They don't make their workload bigger. They love recycling or making very simple animations. 10 moris per killer would not happen before they'd make something like Nemesis's injection an actual injection instead of the self-care animation.
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I hate DCs as much as the next guy. This cannot be done. After lots of reflecting I actually changed my mind on the idea of increasing the DC penalty. They should keep it as is. The state of DC-ing and giving up would get worse not better. Adding something for killing on hook? Hmm not a penalty no. I think pop ups that give reminders to try and give people perspective would be nice. 3rd unalive on hook in a row, pop up that says "Dead by Daylight is a team based game and relies on all 4 survivors working towards a goal" what have you. So many people seem to lack perspective and understanding on what the game is supposed to be like.
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High MMR swf I think is pretty brutal. My swf actually play about on par with soloq (it's usually only a 3 man, and 2 of the 3 of us can't run the killer for sh*t but at least we stay on gens)
I think soloq does need a "buff". That could come in all sorts of forms tho and we should really take the debate there. Is basekit kindred too much? Could hud status icons be helpful? Should a feature literally only activate if you did queue by yourself or is it just added to all survivors as something that MAINLY benefits soloq? Do we not do any of that and just buff perks that come in clutch for the lack of communication (like kindred or aftercare)?
All and all I think swf makes a pretty nasty difference at higher MMR and if we can't or shouldn't find a way to "nerf" them buffing soloq seems fair to me.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207668#Comment_3207668
It could be fun, though I don’t know how it would be much different from Sadako. It’ll be the killer just jumping from animatronic to animatronic, not unlike teleporting from tv to tv.
The spite in me wants the devs to do their own copycat version and use creepy dolls like this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FMNL18UBNZCK/a63d30f8-f5e9-424c-b86e-abcc6fb24288.jpeg
Oh? I've never heard up this concept for his power "from animatronic to animatronic"? That sounds cool.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207698#Comment_3207698
Yeah i get you! Well your experience with dbd is just that, your experience! I personally give no props to mori users (not you bc you say you rarely use them) and nor do i respect them if they constantly bring them in matches because this "to me" signifies lack of ability ie they are not that good at the game and need a crutch.
As far as Devour Hope goes i have success with it 80% of the time and usually get 5 stacks. Well that's because i use Undying/Devour Hope and if i want to gamble to keep it up longer then i run Undying/Devour Hope/Haunted Grounds/Retribution or Undying/Pentimento/Devour Hope/Plaything.
I hear Rancor is getting nerfed and goodness knows why!
Mori's aren't much of a crutch tho. All they do is save on you having to carry them to hook (which doesn't even save time most of the time since Mori's are pretty long). They can deny DS, Boil Over/Flip Flop value but other than that the utility they have is pretty minimal. Mainly for funzies as far as I can tell. You got the kill all the same. Most of the time it doesn't make getting the kill any "easier".
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207677#Comment_3207677
Horror is pretty diverse and horror can simply be more than an individual character being scary. It would be far more limiting to the game if the devs had to make sure every character fitted some arbitrary meter of scariness for their character designs.
Wesker is from a horror franchise and he is one of the main villains in the franchise. He fits perfectly fine.
It's not something people can really quantify objectively. I don't think he does, that's my opinion. My friends all think he's the funny "just a guy" killer. Not some monster or serial killer or faceless masked mysterious person. Just a dude who says dumb crap mid match. I love him.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207681#Comment_3207681
Just use Devour Hope then and earn it. Even the way moris are in they're current state its still not earning the mori kill.
Imo burning mori offerings are a compensation for lack of ability.
I'm not worried about not feeling like I earned it. I just don't use them because when I don't get any Mori's after trying for some by 2 hookin' it bums me out and makes me feel like I wasted the offering.
Using Devour Hope would be even worse because going for it would be harder (as you said, "earning" it) and then instead of feeling like I wasted an offering and wasted time playing around an offering it's just the same but for wasted perk value.
I hoard Mori's to never even try and use them basically. The few times I do bring them into a match it's usually the lower rarity ones and it's when I'm kinda memeing and my objective isn't "go for the 4k" it's "get dat mori baybee".
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Just a small note. I don't consider myself a main of either side but I end up playing more survivor. Mori's are never "unfun". I actually like seeing ones I haven't seen before. The only reason I don't bring Mori's into a match is it sets me up for disappointment if I get a sweaty swf or something. I'd prefer to not play for 2 hooking people to try and Mori.
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@Crowman said:
Not sure how Wesker is considered out of place.
But the argument that "x is out of place" has always been trying to justified someone's personal opinion. Ultimately the devs can add anything they feel like adding to the game.
Do you find the man in the sunglasses and leather jacket who spits one liners with his cartoon deathray villain voice scary? Sure he's from a horror franchise but he is not a horror character in of himself. And horror as a theme is something that should be maintained.
All of that said, I don't care if something is "out of place" or not. It's all good fun. I legit want a Scooby-Doo tie in (not a chapter really, just cosmetics. Although a chapter would be cool, if maybe too extreme of a level of silly even for DBD)
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@Huge_Bush said:
Giant Spider won’t work unless they could figure out how to animate it to travel through narrow pathways.
SpringTrap won’t work because it’ll divide the community since the fans of the series were super annoying about it and have left a sour taste in many mouths. Also there’s some controversy with the creator supporting certain political groups. I hope it never comes because I’m a spiteful bit*h and haven’t forgotten the ruckus fans of the series caused when we were speculating on who the next killer before Cake Daddy Pyramid Head dropped.
I don’t see why we can’t have an alien. It would probably be as large as Demopuppy. They’d just have to come up with interesting ideas for its powers and abilities. Something like The Forgotten Twins powers would work, just less clunky and dependent on slugging.
We can’t have a killer that disguised as a Survivor. Everyone thought that would be Legions power but SWF is a thing and it wouldn’t work in this game.
They have lots of possibilities, it’s just not easy to make them all real. While I like original characters, Licensed ones are the money makers. I just hope for Chucky one day. Oh, and Oppai Vampire Lady from Resident Evil.
I unironically still would like Springtrap. Also yeah that Legion trailer is really misleading huh?
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@GannTM said:
So what you’re saying is, Shrek can be a killer in DBD?
I think he is. And he's right.
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I like a lot of these changes but this seems needlessly complex? I'd just remove hook grabs on healthy survivors and have basekit kindred "kick in" after the killer has been within' 20m of the hooked survivor for more than 15 seconds (with these 15 seconds counting back down after the killer leaves at the same rate, and back up if they enter it again) remaining for 5 seconds after the killer leaves the radius.
Maybe a few other changes could be made where if a killer stays within hooked survivors for WAY to long and often all survivors get a diet basekit boil over until the end of the match and this would be combined with basekit breakdown where maybe if a killer was within' a 20m radius of a hooked survivor for more than 30 seconds that survivors hook is now weakened and will break on unhook even if the killer leaves the radius for the rest of their time on hook.
And yeah getting camped/tunneled out of a game should somehow always at least grant a safety pip because that can happen to someone of any skill level really. (I know pips don't count towards MMR anymore it just sucks to lose one just because the killer didn't like the way you looked at him)
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202588#Comment_3202588
The issue isn't slugging. The issue is the problems the Finishing Mori will create in game that only basekit Unbreakable can counter. The two go hand in hand. Basekit Unbreakable is the bandaid solution to a new endgame mechanic that nobody asked for, and that has the potential to make hooking a secondary goal when it's supposed to be the primary goal. Basekit Unbreakable is about forcing killers to hook. The whole thing is just a mess of an idea
Maybe not but that's now how everyone wants to think of these changes. I don't like this new Mori as is, and I do see how basekit unbreakable is supposed to extend matches that could otherwise go really quickly with this new mechanic with slugging. What I really think they should do is remove the basekit unbreakable and make Cypress Memento Mori basekit along with this "moves the mori to a set part of the map" idea specifically for when you kill the LAST survivor.
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The game is getting plenty of Anti-Tunneling attention. In addition to all of the really good Anti Tunneling perks in the game, basekit BT has really shaken up the meta and works fine for Anti-Tunneling. Tunneling shouldn't be straight up removed like there shouldn't be a mechanic where the killer is basically led to water and FORCED to pick a different target for the next several minutes. Getting players out of a game fast is a strat and while I love the basekit anti-tunneling we have so far, we don't need much more nor should we get much more because getting survivors out of the game fast is NEEDED at high MMR. Unless they can rework it so 2 hooking everyone was somehow more viable (the only way I'd see that happening is if someone fresh off hook cannot work on gens for like 1 full minute) we need MAYBE one more anti tunneling basekit baby step, plus anti tunneling perk buffs.
Face camping is a WAY bigger issue imo. It needs to be made not at all viable. Against 4 competent survivors a 1k should be all that is possible and unhook grabs should be removed. Tunneling isn't great but at least you get to play the game. Camping is just sitting on hook being a time waster so your teammates can do gens. Fun.
Out of the 3 ""problematic"" play styles survivors complain about (Proxy/Face Camping, Tunneling and Slugging) Camping is the only one worth trying to COMPLETELY destroy. I think the other 2 are valid ways for killers to play but they can often be a tad too powerful and slugging is pretty annoying when you have to wait for the bleed out.
And the dumb thing is the Devs might have the exact opposite stance? Because it's the only one they're not really addressing. Reassurance doesn't count because it's a bandaid perk fix that doesn't even solve the problem when someone is running it. It just makes it slightly less bad.
I agree with the standard "remove hook grabs and have powers start to loose charges when close to a hook" fix for camping. With maybe those disabling during the EGC because a hooked survivor is the only bait the killer has at that point. Camping during EGC actually IS valid. Shouldn't be BUFFED or anything but Noed I think should be reworked so it's not THAT easy to turn a losing game into a 4k from one camp.
Anyway I rambled but Tunneling IS getting actively addressed and at a decent pace. It's not as big of an issue as camping imo and it should still be viable/possible just maybe less so.
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They can close the gap. If you give Solo Q a bunch more information and balance around that SWF callouts won't be nearly as comparably powerful. They need to bring Solo Q up to SWF standards and then balance around this new Solo Q. Then SWF won't be such a pain.
And yeah as people have said removing SWF would kill the game. I for one would stop playing survivor all together and honestly wouldn't be invested enough in the game on the whole anymore to play killer.
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@RoastedGarlic said:
maybe if you killers didn't constantly slug this wouldnt need to happen. you reap what you sow.
Slugging for the 4k should be addressed. But not like this. And specifically Slugging for the 4k/slugging everyone is the issue. Slugging in general (as in just leaving one or two slugs while all 4 survivors are still alive) is something I personally think needs to stay and this kind of kills that too. I'd buff all of the anti slugging perks and maybe give basekit unbreakable once everyone is on the ground. But just always being able to get yourself up? Always, really? Yuck.
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I find it so odd they feel the need to make changes this big this many years in? Like some things they just need to leave ALONE. Maybe these changes are actually for the best, maybe no one would have complained if the game was always like this. But the reality is, they have so much content built ontop of the old systems of moris and slugging that SO much stuff is about to break let me tell you. They should have just made Dead by Daylight 2 with something as drastic as this.
They can barely keep the game balanced as it is! For really big fundamental changes they need to keep moving in baby steps, changing perks, basekit killer stats and addons along the way. Frankly I think if they are really serious about adding these new Moris and unlimited basekit Unbreakables to live they should at least have it as a "gamemode" like option in live for 3 months or more.
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I on the whole don't like the sound of these changes and I expect them to break the game in multiple places. As some people already mentioned poor twins is getting particularly shafted. Anti Slugging is something the game probably needs but this is not how I think it should be addressed and it is not as big of an "issue" as face-camping is at the moment.
Slugging is a valid strat it just needs to not have this toxic air around it with people being forced to wait and bleed out for several minutes. I think leaving No Mither, Soul Guard and Unbreakable as hard counters is good. The way I'd address this is buff all 3 of those perks (especially No Mither) and then make it so if all remaining survivors are on the ground or hooked for more than 20 seconds only THEN does this base kit Unbreakable kick in. Also the luck system needs a complete rework but that's another topic.
But anyway I still think face-camping needs to be addressed FIRST. Face camping should basically mean 9/10 times you only get a 1k. It should be debuffed and destroyed such that getting more than a 1k with a survivor who isn't DCing on hook (doing the right thing and buying time for their team. Those who DC against face-campers are why they can get 3 or 4ks pretty often) is basically impossible against 3 survivors who are smart. And proxy camping should be effected by whatever changes these would be as well, maybe not as harshly (somehow).
The Mori changes also seem kinda lame? If a killer wants to do a funni Devour Hope build and try and Mori everyone they should be allowed. I like the Mori cutscene idea but I don't think it should REPLACE the Mori system. I think that you should just always be allowed OPTIONALLY to Mori the last survivor (maybe last standing instead of last in the match? And that would end the match in the vain of what this change is suggesting? No probably not I really just don't like it) basekit (with it moving to a preset part of a map and all) and they just have every 2 Cypress Memento Moris turn into 1 Ivory Memento Mori and if you have an odd number you get 2000 blood points refunded off the top.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198096#Comment_3198096
Maybe, but even so this would only punish camping on weaker killers anyway. Nurse, Blight, and Billy can be outside of the radius and then be on top of the hook in seconds. Huntress and Deathslinger can both proxy camp from a pretty big distance (Huntress moreso). Oh... and then there's Hag, who can camp from up to 40m away.
It's a good idea on paper but it just doesn't work.
Personally I don't think proxy camping is the big issue. Proxy camping should be a tad less viable sure but I think facecamping/camping RIGHT next to the hook is what should be addressed first, then proxy camping. Most proxy camping usually leaves open enough windows to go for the save without risking a trade.
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@FreddyVoorhees said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198099#Comment_3198099
Maybe if we combine bloodlust with this it could work. If the killers did not chase in a while the survivors will be buffed. It will literaly force killers to hunt them down.
Reverse bloodlust? I like it! I don't know how long for it to kick in would be fair though. It would have to be long enough for it to never come into play in a match where the killer wasn't camping but also short enough that it would actually kick in before the person being hooked died.
Or maybe it's not simply "duration without getting into chase" and also depends on other factors like proximity to the hooked survivor.
It's worth noting that I consider most forms of "proxy camping" acceptable and they really shouldn't be too terribly nerfed by these changes. The way I see it is as killer your primary objective is to kill players. One of the best ways to find players to kill is patrol their objectives. When you hook someone you create a new objective that is arguably higher priority than gens. So patrolling this new objective along with nearby gens is fine and is a valid strat. I don't think by design killers are supposed to NEVER go near that hook again. There is a specific line what is and isn't acceptable as "camping" and we need to decide what that is and put debuffs, nerfs, paused hook timers, whatever the solution is precisely at the problematic unfun, disapprovingly viable face camping and proxy camping. And leave other things that some people might still call "camping" by a stretched definition alone.
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I do like ideas like this. Here's another more specific one.
I think if a killer is within a 20m radius of a hook for longer than 20 seconds straight (if they leave for at least 5 full seconds it should reset, killers trying to dodge this system would end up leaving BIG open windows to go for the save eventually) the progression slows down, starting at something like 25% slower and over the course of 20 more seconds creeps up to 80% slower and remains at whatever percentage it reached for 10 seconds after the killer leaves the radius. In addition to this perhaps the furthest gen away receives progress 25% faster after the killer has stayed in the radius longer than 45 seconds and this gen is shown to survivors in a white aura or something.
Not sure what the best way to address this is. But camping needs to be a lot less viable. Perks aren't gonna cut it. We need basekit changes.
Maybe skill checks during the struggle phase don't get harder if the killer is within a 30m radius for longer than 15 seconds? Skill checks should still occur so people at least have the option to leave the game faster if they're sick of being camped. Maybe base BT increases to 15 seconds if the killer was within' 15m for more than 20 seconds and doesn't go away even if they leave?
As for perk changes maybe Adrenaline gives you a 50% chance to get yourself off on the first hook state if it kicks in while you're on hook and slows your struggle phase progression by 25% (If you take the chance in the case of the first hook state you don't get healthy as soon as you get off). Deliverance grants a 30% reduced struggle phase progression if you didn't get a safe unhook use out of it before your first hook.
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🔨hatchet
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He's fun to play as but really isn't much of a threat to play AGAINST unless it's a 'slinger main or high MMR dbd vet. Even then a 2 man escape most of the time, or their build carried them (maybe NOED).
Had a half decent 'slinger sweat and slug for the 4k on the last 99'd gen. I take it the man doesn't win a lot of games so he takes his 4ks in whatever form they come.
I think he needs a rework. Personally I'd be happy with a 28m TR, 4.5 m/s (while the redeemer is unloaded), a slightly snappier (shorter/faster) ADS animation and a bunch of add-on changes. But he might be due for more than that.
And maybe, at least for the sake of getting console people playing him again (They should do this and aim assist), they should make the hitbox on the projectile bigger? But like how they did for Wesker's bound hitbox. They leave the environment collision hitbox alone, but they make the survivor hitbox a tad bigger.
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I'd like guns added to sorta bring the gameplay into seeming more like resident evil, if only for an event. I don't think the game needs it but I really think they could work it in, in a way that wouldn't be broken. Maybe instead of a stun in flashes on their screen and gives them a brief slowdown?
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It's worth noting that a lot of the obsession related perks ENCOURAGE tunneling. There's a killer perk, I forgot the name of that gives you the aura of the obsession I think after every gen is finished, but once the obsession is dead it gives you the aura of the other 3 survivors at once. So the best way to get use out of this perk is to tunnel the obsession out of the game.
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Anything with wide spread appeal is going to collect people from all walks of life. I think the devs just need to continue to improve how they police it.
The only other thing that might play into it is it being an asymmetric game with lots of things to balance is you drive a wedge between the two sides. So called Killer and Survivor mains. I don't see people get so heated over PvP multiplayer games where both players are playing the same type of game, in the same sort of role.
When you lose you get frustrated all the same, but it becomes harder to tell if your opponent actually outplayed you or if the odds are just stacked against you.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3186975#Comment_3186975
I don't agree on the core concept that no accessability options should require a sacrifice by players to employ them, regardless of role or perspective. Conceptually you are literally punishing that person for their condition, and treating them like a second class customer besides. Life isn't fair and people will always have different difficulties, but games are a medium where they are designed rather than encountered. Not to mention enjoyed.
I just can't agree with putting that much effort into something like that based on its core premise. Obviously thought and consideration went into it, but its missing the bigger consideration that its forcing them to trade one handicap for another, all around something they can't control. I also don't think the low effectiveness of abusing FoV really justifies it, as its a type of mechanical exploit that is illogical: Most movements and interactions aren't tied to your vision. If someone was trying to FoV tech you in real life, you'd just crack them upside the head or swing your weapon in the general area they are in. Its a twofold issue in regards to relying both on the fact that the killer can't currently see you, as well as the fact that they can't blindly cover that area without needing to look.
That especially becomes important with abilities that need to be aimed, which is why it makes a last ditch effort vs killers like huntress having a hatchet wound at point blank works. Sure, it makes you harder to hit as you would expect, but its kinda silly when you think about the fact she could just decapitate you with the damn thing while you're dancing around trying to stay away from her line of sight, and highlights how unrealistic it is that she is locked into having to throw it at the very middle of where she is looking. I just can't see any reason to keep it other than personal preference.
Alright. Agree to disagree.
Honestly I'm unsure if FOV has historically always been an accessibility option. In my mind it was always a preference thing for first person shooters. Some people like high FOV to see as much as possible, some people prefer a lower one to have everything at a more immersive less fishbowl angle. If it was added into games explicitly to address motion sickness then I'm willing to concede that it should be an option in every first person game and mechanics should not be built around low FOV.
But that's not been my understanding up until this point.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3186911#Comment_3186911
Surprisingly respectful and level headed, even if the take itself isn't. Gotta give credit where due, you're being surprisingly mature about holding an immature perspective, and im saying that unironically. Felt the need to mention that because civility is always refreshing, especially when faced with more emotionally charged topics. Cheers.
Thanks. I'm not trying to be mean. It's not as cut and dry as "people who need FOV for motion sickness should just deal" for me. It's just been my experience that the tunnel vision the killer has plays a lot into the outcome of a match. People who need more FOV for motion sickness struggles should be accommodated, and they are with a perk. So I call it solved there. I think since so many people find it an accessibility issue it should at least be more accessible.
I've said it a few times but to call everything out completely this is how I would do it. Make Shadowborn a non teachable that is available in the blood tree for all killers from the start and give Wraith a new perk in it's place. Shadowborn activates the Shadowborn FOV slider in the settings. Not sure what would be a good max for this slider but I'd be cool with 120 I think. Shadowborn should also have an additional effect that changes with the 3 rarities. Not entirely sure what would be good here. Maybe survivors visible within' your field of view suffer a debuff of some kind?
Now regardless of if you think FOV should be locked behind a perk or not, if they did all above that would be a lot BETTER than how it is now, right?
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3186802#Comment_3186802
The devs did it for the same reason they make a lot of similar bad decisions, they overlooked considerations when designing it, and its a killer only issue. I know people like to use that to complain about outlandish things, but it actually carries weight in this case: Their reaction to spine chill is extremely telling, especially when compared to something like flashlight macros affecting photosensitive players. Both were accessibility oversights, and one has been an issue for years while they suddenly pivoted and snuck in unrelated buffs with the other. Accessibility is a topic that especially seems to have some extreme bias internally, likely due to how it is sometimes used intentionally with balance decisions.
Also, lastly "I agree with their continued choice to leave it the way it is, despite the large group of people who will keep getting nauseous playing killer." is a horrendous take to have if I'm being completely honest. You're flat out admitting that it makes the game near unplayable for a significant portion of people, but that they don't matter compared to things working how you want. You're allowed to have that take but don't expect anyone with a degree of empathy to endorse it.
Fair. I get it's not very compassionate of me. I don't usually have motion sickness in games but I do have worse motion sickness than most. I can relate when it came to VR. I'm not trying to say people who need more FOV should just stop playing the game. I just think that yeah, all the people in this thread that play "3 perk killer" should just have to deal with playing 3 perk killer because for people who don't need it, it's a big enough advantage. I would love and support Shadowborn being buffed and given an additional effect to make these people feel like they can actually get use out of the perk instead of just having it steal a slot because it's something they see as a locked accessibility feature.
This will be the last post I make on this thread because clearly I lack any additional power to support my point, and even if I can fully support it when it comes down to it I just care more about keeping close range FOV jukes than the comfort of strangers/strangers right to feel like they can use all 4 perk slots. Does that make me an unempathetic jerk? Probably.
This is just how I feel and if an FOV slider was finally added I really wouldn't mind much. I'd love the advantage it would provide on my favorite killer, Deathslinger.
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I like removing the precondition and sound queue. But I don't think it should work for all skill checks. It would stray too far from the name and original idea. I think it should also provide 5 seconds of aura reading on a person who FAILED a gen skill check. Failed and great skill checks are both less common than good skill checks so I think covering those bases would make it more usable.