ReikoMori
ReikoMori
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The feature hasn't even been tested yet, can we wait for like another week so we can actually see how it plays out?
Like I understand the concern, but it is getting to the point where folks keep asking for features then complaining about the feature because it doesn't ultra punish [insert killer] enough. The entire point is to mitigate but not completely eliminate and it definitely isn't to just punish a Bubba for daring to chainsaw near a hooked survivor or at a freshly unhooked survivor.
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@1ettuce said:
Bubba, hillbilly, oni, plague, huntress (particularly with cooldown addons or iri head), trickster, pyramid head, stbfl, myers, pinky finger, original pain, etc.
All these killers/tools allow killers to pretty much guarantee or near guarantee a kill for free just by camping someone on the hook. I can understand the anti-camp system being disabled in endgame being more fair for the average killer, but that's not a luxury these other killers should get.
It is so unarguably stupid that a bubba can get their first down in the endgame and then guarantee they die just by camping the hook. As survivor it doesn't matter how good you are or how well you played the rest of the game, if the killer has someone hooked in endgame, they're gonna die and that's that unless someone has deliverance.
I have no problem with the general endgame camping scenario where survivors can coordinate a 4 out if they work well together, it's when these tools are involved that it's a big issue.
Obviously I don't mind if any buffs are implemented to compensate for any of these things becoming worse at camping, especially myers, I definitely don't think Myers needs a net nerf.
Maybe a hot take but getting to endgame with 4 survs alive is way WAY more deserving of a 4 out than getting 1 hook is deserving of any kills, as to say, getting a single hook doesn't deserve a kill *in the slightest*
The game isn't over just because y'all have finished the generators and you're not owed anything. The endgame literally refers to the endgame collapse which is only triggered when you open a door or hatch is closed. If you want more time to make more saves then don't open the door. It is extremely simple, but even if it didn't function like that the killer's objective literally becomes only defend hooks to secure kills. The anti-camping feature addresses the situation adequately when it needs to, but if you're in egc you aren't anymore entitled to have the game help you than the killer is entitled to camp you. Just because y'all survived to that point doesn't mean you should suddenly be less immune to consequences of bad decision making and clutch outplays or even someone just getting lucky.
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@ryz said:
im not sure about that but i've heard Haddie is a very disliked survivor but why? her story? her look? why is she disliked? i personally didnt notice any difference in my games when i play her sometimes. the killers or survivors in my lobbies are the same as always... but actually while writing it reminded me of someone who once said "ehhw a haddie" that was the only time i got a stupid comment about her.
so... whats the problem with haddie just curious 😅
I can only speak for what I've personally seen and it has been a range from people just generally not feeling her aesthetic/looks to people just being real racist. Though the racism related stuff is real rare to see unless you're like me and very terminally online and spend too much time really digging through dbdtwit. I rarely see her played when I do play and I would put it up to people just generally flocking to licensed survivors more and generally just not being in the mood level another survivor with relatively low cosmetic support.
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Ah finally the realization.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
Genuine question. I came back to DBD this past week so I've not familiarized myself enough with SM yet. From what I understand her strength is 3-genning with the drones as well as locating survivors.
Earlier I had a game on one of the cow farms where we were 3 survivors with one more gen left. But we never managed to break her 3-gen and she got us all.
Is there anything you can do in solo other than always bring a gen focused build in case you end up facing her?
You have to find and break up her three gen early on in the game. You basically have to prioritize do that and kinda risk getting downed in the process. Like the strength is in the fact that people just let her get away with holding the gens by rather than forcing the issue. You as a solo player will more than likely struggle a great deal with this because it requires teammates to do drones which will give her haste for a bit. If you have a gen that you can consider fairly close to popping just keep hammering it even if you go down. She's pretty cooked once it is popped.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433109#Comment_3433109
You're not hearing me, I'm not saying just put him back exactly how he was. There are ways to make him powerful than he was and making it harder for coordinated survivors to wake up, the more times they wake up, the faster they fall asleep and longer it takes to wake up using alarm clocks (with removal of skill check wake ups)
And no. I don't want sadako becoming another Freddy where she isn't thematic and is weak, there's no need for that. Right now though, she's in a better state than freddy
She works best as a hit and run killer, not a chase killer
She's not good at hit and run because she kinda can't run. Her mobility is severely capped so she can't outpace survivors. You can attempt to use tv's to make up for it, but generally speaking they usually don't spawn in ways that make sense to use them like that. It works on small maps, but not consistently enough to be proper viable. It definitely gets worse on larger maps and on those maps which there are more of she often doesn't have a choice but to chase straight up. This is where copy/pasting a bit of Wraith movement speed increase while de-manifested would have been a good idea. She's the worst of the hit and run killers in the game and the worst of instant death killers.
Now to Fredboi again, I get you're saying make him more powerful, but understand how that functions for everyone involved with what you have suggested. Alarm clocks exist so people are incentivized to get off gens and go wake up with them because it is faster than constantly having teammates wake you up. Making those take longer will just make people not use them which is bad, you want people to use them more than they do teammates. It's a direct cut to efficiency for them which gives the killer more time which he needs.
Making people fall asleep faster on paper sounds great, but I am pretty certain that is something that ends up being the first thing changed as you making people fall asleep faster and faster needs a very tight cap or else his power becomes unmanageable for survivors. Also balance wise having his sleep be a more consistent timing metric is good for both sides as you have a better chance of avoiding weird situations like a Forever Freddy 2.0 where people are constantly fighting with the waking mechanic to the point the game grinds down to halt not because the player is doing well, but because the game just went past an arbitrary time limit. Making it harder for coordinated teams to wake up isn't binary, it's going to affect the uncoordinated even more which is what consistency checks like a clearly understood and rarely changing timing help with balancing out.
His old power wasn't particularly interactive and also didn't have much in the way of counterplay. You couldn't dodge being put to sleep with his laser pointer of doom which generally from a gameplay feel wasn't good. Now the downside for killer is that because his power just worked as long as he could vaguely point straight he couldn't interact with survivors in anyway unless he did point at you. Which made it so at crucial moments during the game he was stuck waiting for folks to nod off unable to do anything about it. Currently he can approach the game normally, people fall asleep at a consistent rate (which is thematic as he never made people sleep he just controls their dreams), and when he hits people they go to sleep which is much more interactive for both parties.
I'm not gonna pretend I know how to make Fredboi a good killer, but trying to fix his old power wasn't and isn't the way.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432956#Comment_3432956
Sadako is fine imo with her iri tape and ring drawing, but yeah she does need those to basically become playable, like trapper with his bloody coil + honing stone, simply is miserable to play without
But Freddy he doesn't have any redeemable addons, they could bring back old Freddy while making him stronger in the dreamworld, while also making it increasingly more difficult to wake up as the match goes on, and falling asleep much quicker
That was part of the problem to begin with though.
Waking up being insanely punishing when not playing with people who understood the mechanics of waking up. Putting basically all his power into the dreamworld like they did with old Freddy just made games flatout terrible for both sides most of the time.
Against competent players who literally didn't exist because basically no one was staying asleep long enough for him to do anything and since old Freddy literally could not interact with survivors who were awake he got wrecked. Against players who weren't aware of how he worked and what to do he still wasn't good because the only thing dreamworld offered was passive slowdown which on its own wasn't that great either. The only thing he had going for him was Forever Freddy which was one of the most mind numbing things to play against. Playing really long, slow, dull war of attrition matches against any killer just isn't fun. It also made him harder to learn how to play than he needed to be considering who he is.
There is not a single thing that is redeeming about old Fredboi. He was a perk and addon reliant mess of a killer and arguably still is, but at least he do the normal functions of the game rather than his power being "Play regular DBD"
Sadako's basically hard limited to Condemned strats which are overly feast or famine considering how bad her tv spawns can be and the general size of most maps in the game. I don't consider being insanely weak in chase due to having a lullaby that ruins her stealth and being addon reliant to an iri addon as being fine.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427151#Comment_3427151
Probably because that's thematic? That's pretty much the main thing in the movie, as well as the Robert Englund ones, he can only hurt you in your dreams
Mabye he was weaker like that but he was thematic, now he's weak AND not thematic
Honestly when I first played against Freddy I 100% expected that the Dream world actually did something like allowed you to be attacked by him, because yknow that's what the movies were like
Nope, turns out there's basically no detriment at all and a waste of time to even find an Alarm clock unless you were already there
That was his original power in the game. It's bad in basically every way because when you center his power around being completely non functional unless people are asleep he only power can be put you to sleep. Which isn't thematic because Freddy couldn't force you sleep he could only pull you into the dream dimension should you go to sleep. At least in the later Robert Englund films he started to develop more powers that had less conditional usage restriction or were at least more interesting if put into a game.
Being weak yet thematic isn't a good thing long term. Look at Sadako, she's extremely weak and extremely thematic on top of just having to deal with the normal issues that come with being a character in DBD. The goal is to find a balance of theming and functional gameplay. When they're as out of balance as old Freddy was you can only redesign it. He still needs a lot of work in my opinion, but I don't see where they go with him.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Q6E84VTXH321/aibr97mbh1y21.jpg
Why do people dc or unalive themselves on hook on the first down? I can understand something like that part way through the game when it's clear the killer will win and you just want to get on with the next game. But when you do that right at the start of the game you throw the game for everyone else. As surv I'm like "great, another definite lose because someone had a tantrumn" as killer it's like "oh look another game where I don't need to try" like why even load into the game in the first place?
The game is only fun when they get to just do whatever they want and they are too godlike at the game to make any mistakes or suffer from any bad luck that results in them being the first to go down and get hooked.
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@neighborlyleah said:
With Nicholas Cage being added to the game, is there any slight possibility that we could finally get Shia Labeouf as a killer based off the iconic song "Shia Labeouf" - by Rob Cantor. Just an idea to throw out there ;)
no
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Freddy K. is, in my opinion, one of the most boring Killers in the game because their power is fundamentally barebones and other Killers do what they do but significantly better.
After Freddy's buff, they saw a surge in killrates that promptly forced them to get significantly nerfed, and now we are stuck with a boring and hollow shell of what was there before, but even then, Freddy was and still is boring.
I think my fundamental issue comes from the idea of Freddy being a "dream demon" but never really fitting the role, with original Freddy, for how garbage he was, he did fit the role to an extent by pulling people into dreams directly, but aside from that, nothing really fits the role of a dream demon.
The issue is that, for balance sake, they have the hold back a lot with Freddy, but even with balance considered, I feel as if Freddy has a well of creativity that people can take from and use to improve them, but nobody really cares enough.
Now, I know by this point all 5 Freddy mains have raised their pitchforks and torches by all the
slandertruth I have said. So, let me leave this off with a question. How exactly do you make Freddy good AND interesting in DBD?Freddy's sort of limited due to myriad of reasons that aren't exactly easy to work around.
The version of Freddy we have is from the remake so it rules out giving him powers he displayed in the old movies. DBD needs to have Freddy do things that can be understood and countered so he can't do anything too crazy.
I would start by making his Teleport just a permanent feature that isn't limited to unfinished generators. He'd just be able to teleport to any generator. I think dream snares are functionally better than dream pallets, but the pallets fit his theme more so I would make those base and just put a status effect on the pallets. I generally like how his sleep is currently handled and its mechanics are pretty well understood. After that I am out of ideas
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@betelgeuseyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430927#Comment_3430927
Not true. A team of survivors can all have the perk and unhook eachother on second phase. And there's no way of telling who has the perk until they've freed themselves. That's why slugging is THE only method to counter it.
That's such a unlikely edge case these days, I don't even think I've seen people go for that in literal years.
If you want to slug them you can go for it, but it ultimately is just a waste of time because you can't time out deliverance you can only deal with the situation of whether they use it or not. That perk is the least of your problems of this I assure you, but you could just run Make Your Choice and force hook trades if you're that concerned. I don't feel it is worth it, but is another option.
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@betelgeuseyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430908#Comment_3430908
Is there another way to beat deliverance? How else do you stop 3 survivors from unhooking one? I'm pretty sure THE only way to beat deliverance IS to slug.
Well only one survivor can unhook at a time so by default you only have to do deal with maybe one or two deliverance users at a time. Also Deliverance on it's own just isn't very good as a survivor perk so people tend not to run it which means you're less likely to see it to begin. Playing around it doesn't really require anything special as the survivor just unhooks themselves only to be in a position to get put right back on the hook unless they have DS and even then that isn't a big deal.
One thing you will learn if you're new to dbd is that it is better not to put a ton of thought into beating survivor perks as the killer. It's better to focus on how to deal with them regardless of the perks they bring. Deliverance doesn't take any special tactics to deal with, but something like Adrenaline or Mettle of Man(when it works) are more the sort of thing you have to actually put thought into. Deliverance is never really going to require more thought than just downing and hooking the person again.
Now if you specifically just want to try and do something specific you could just not hook the person you suspect has deliverance until the end game. If they get hooked last then they just die, but that isn't something I would take the risk to do when just rehooking them is so easy.
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@sluc16 said:
I got a friend that is new to the game, he is trying to learn killer, and I was watching him play yesterday, he was getting nothing but experienced survivors and bully squads. He kept getting saboed and flashlight saves like it was nothing. I have been survivor main for years now, and he just kept getting matched against survivors on my level of experience. That is not the kind of team a new killer should be matched against, is completely ridiculous and unfair. He just straight up gave up on the game cause is just not fun to play.
Time he plays can be a strong factor as the game will try to match you up with folks around similar MMR, but if it can't find a group of survivors that fit the bill you just get whoever is in queue. If a group happens to be a full stack swf that has been in queue for longer than the game would like they are likely to get dumped on you to deal with for a game
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@betelgeuseyes said:
If slugging is a problem, wouldn't the survivor perk 'deliverance' only exacerbate the problem? If it does then shouldn't deliverance be scrapped?
Deliverance doesn't really offer such a strong amount of value to play around it. At least not by slugging.
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@indieeden7 said:
It has been stated countless times on here, by BHVR themselves even, that they do not want to add Jeepers Creepers because the creator is a convicted paedophile.
I'm starting to think folks keep asking for this precisely do the problematic nature of Jeepers Creepers.
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@Rudjohns said:
Killer have scratch marks and the loud noise notification
If any hearing accessibility is added to the game then scratch marks and loud noise notification need to be removed
That is an absolutely nonsensical statement to make.
Loud noise notification is highly specific to a very limited set of actions. Scratch marks are by design meant to be more misleading than leading. You can even see this in action as a survivor if you run Fixated and see how they generate and again they only come from a highly specific situation, survivors sprinting.
The actual thing that would need to change is Stridor as it would be another instance of people who are hard of hearing most likely using a perk in place of an accessibility option. Survivors got an accessibility feature without losing anything in the name of "upholding game balance" which was the right call. The accessibility feature they got was created in DBD mobile without taking away anything which was the right call. Porting the feature killers have access to there to the main game can be done the exact same way.
The changes to balance do not outweigh the need for proper accessibility.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430697#Comment_3430697
I am not hearing impaired but I use the feature in order to dunk on sadako even more lmao.
Why are you bullying the poor girl. she's even good XD
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@Ayodam said:
Basekit killer instinct isn’t an accessibility feature. It’s a huge buff. The visual terror radius doesn’t give survivors information they don’t already have (assuming they aren’t deaf), but giving killer instinct or some other ‘visual’ auditory feature wouldn’t have the same effect because blind people aren’t playing DBD.
Visual terror radius has proven to be pretty strong against Sadako.
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@Steakdabait said:
you think it would be reversed since why would the killer intentionally aim for the highest level survivor? If that's common i can now understand why they think the game is so survivor sided when they can easily win 8/10 matches by targeting the meg head
Some people see P100 survivors as the most likely to be the obnoxious gamer and decide to counter that by just singling them out for destruction. I personally don't see the point in that, but then I remember DBD is pretty much a grudge game.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430560#Comment_3430560
What in the skill issue
Garden of Joy is less of a skill issue and more of a classic "devs forgot to consider how buildings chain to the tiles"
The stronger killers in the game can somewhat circumvent the issues Garden of Joy has, but lots of killers just don't have a real response other than avoid the building and try to catch you out somewhere else.
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Knockout is designed to block aura reading on downed survivors
Dark Devotion gives undetectable after hitting your obsession and giving them your TR
Nemesis is for switching your obsession to anyone who blinds or stuns you and causing survivors to be oblivious
Rancor gives the killer aura reading on survivors in exchange for revealing their aura to their obsession every time a generator is completed and allows the killer to mori the obsession when the exit gates are powered.
This build is meant to basically allow Legion to have a bit of stealth and misdirection while also making it take longer for survivors to find slugged survivors. It's actually quite an interesting build now that I've seen it.
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@YuisBootLicker said:
I just played solo surv, two stack, and three stack mixed for a solid six hours tonight. Not a single one of the post games did i get called nsfw names, and practically bullied by killers. I don't play like a toxic survivor, i just do my best to complete my objectives. SURVIVE. I do a gen or two, get hooked, heal survivors, and maybe, MAYBE. If im lucky, get a flashlight save or pallet save. Their reasoning is that and i quote, " You healed too fast " or " You gen rushed " or " You blinded me ". What am i supposed to do? roll over and just let them kill me? How am i supposed to play any differently? Just so it can't be used as an excuse, heres my build: Adrenaline, Windows of Opportunity, Streetwise, Resilience. Nothing toxic. Items i might run a yellow beamer if im feeling lucky, or i run a toolbox for gens ( never sabo boxes ). Tell me, toxic killer mains, What would you like me to do differently? Because i know im not alone, alot of survivors feel this way about y'all.
You cant use the excuse of " Theres too many toxic survivors out there! I have to play that way and act that way!" If you think this, youre a liar. For three days in a row i played killer, and funny thing is, survivors did gens, looped me a little, hit a couple beamer and pallet saves, and wow, to my UTTER SHOCK ( sarcasm in case you can't tell ) nobody was toxic! When i 4ked at 5 gens, or if they got a 4 man escape! Nobody was toxic on either side. Everyone said good game, good luck on next, and moved on!
Again i ask, to all you entitled killer mains, What am i and all the other average joe players doing, that is so toxic and deserving of being bullied to the point of mental breakdowns?
You're looking for reason in DBD. That is your mistake.
You didn't do anything wrong and you didn't deserve to be harassed. Just keep doing what your doing, their problems aren't really with you just the game and themselves. They need to chill.
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@pizzaduffyhp90 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3429321#Comment_3429321
If you're referring to his terrible movie I can agree with you it wasn't very scary. However, when it was 2012 up to 2014 this was what kept people interested cause his original game The Eight Pages and The Arrival which is still decently creepy to this day.
God I'm getting old.
Slender games just never did it for me, walking jumpscare horror games were never for me. I remember vaguely thinking the Slender lore could be alright with fleshing out into an actual character, but it never really progressed and then Blair Witch got a revive and offered the same feel with better presentation. Then kids started committing Slender based IRL crimes and the trash movie is when I knew that Slenderman had jumped the shark and fell off a cliff.
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@pizzaduffyhp90 said:
https://twitter.com/DeadbyDaylight/status/1658529909281783808?s=20
Granted this definitely doesn't mean anything but, let's say the eye is a "teaser" is it another killer who stalks and watches you? I could think of one very popular character who fits that.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Q9XRFJIUQBLK/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YIMKYUWKNJTB/image.png
Alien would be a bigger license for the anniversary for sure but, Slender Man would make a very fun and unique killer. Slender as the main killer, Lauren as the survivor, Kate as a legendary Legion Skin, and Oakside Park as the map.
This would be absolutely one of the worst chapters. Slenderman was scary for like a day in 2016 now it's just a dead meme with weird licensing issues and basically not a single consistent power portrayal in any media featuring it.
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@Gandor said:
To the topic - both ideas are good
Offtopic - what about removing all the killer perks survivor can take for a change? Why is no mither still a thing with much bigger downside then upside?
To address you No Mither question
The biggest reason to run it is to combo it with injured state perks, you're one hit down, but you have access to some of the strongest non meta perks in the game at that time. Most of those perks also haven't really changed either since the condition for using them is being injured. You also get the built in anti-slugging which is or was infinite(I haven't read the perk in a while) so you could do gens faster, dodge hits, couldn't be slugged, etc. and if you were already really strong at looping the risk was basically no different than playing against Billy or Myers with their one shot centric kits.
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@AetherBytes said:
Injured grabs should be possible, after all the whole point of being injured is being vulnerable. Healthy grabs should be removed.
Being in good health doesn't give you an aura of invincibility to be grabbed. Especially if you're being grabbed by a crazed killer driven by an unknowable cosmic horror.
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@BlueHorkew said:
For a few years hook grabs has been a topic that is brought up when talking about camping, i have seen multiple survivors and killer mains in favour of removing them because they feel unfair and promote a waiting mini game with lag.
But what are the devs thought on the matter, during the last year many interactions have been removed like locker saves and lightburn, BT became base kit, more killer with anti camping in their power. Even a similar mechanic the hatch grab was removed in the past.
So, why isn't hook grabbing being discussed more or is it even the devs intention to change it?
It's an unfair mechanic that mostly punishes uncoordenated team play, aka, solo q.
The devs already seem to be ok with hook trading, but hook grabbing removes that balance and makes it RNG with lag.
So, again, will hook grabs be removed or are the devs ok with it?
The devs have never spoken on removing hook grabs and honestly they shouldn't remove them.
Soloq play doesn't have to be uncoordinated, but it often and honestly a lot of grabs aren't coming from a killer just standing there and face camping. They come from survivors being too bold and aggressive trying to make what are legitimately bad saves rather than waiting for the killer to get some distance away. Survivors want to force interactions at every available avenue even to their own detriment sometimes when letting the killer walk away for a bit is actually the smart play. It doesn't look cool, but neutralizes hook grabs.
Soloq being uncoordinated isn't a killer centric issue, it's a survivor centric issue. Getting rid of hook grabs won't make teams any more coordinated it just removes the risk from misplays and unduly weakens killers on a fundamental level.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3429150#Comment_3429150
Well there is nothing you can do to stop swfs from sharing that info with each other, and it would only buff swfs in the same way that the second thing and current activity hud does, it's just not that significant imo
It may not be significant, but it is noticeable. There is a level of personal uncertainty that both killers and survivors should have to respect until one has personally verified it. SWF's strength is much like Nurse's strength in that they subvert the rules and boundaries of the game. Adding that to the game at it's base for all survivors won't truly close the gap in any meaningful, but will harm the killer experience in a way that would be noticeable even if insignificant overall. I've stressed this before in other threads, but it bares repeating that ultimately the game is not Soloq vs. SWF, it is survivors vs. killer. Constantly trying to shorten that gap between two parties on the same side at this point does not seem like the best use of time and resources. Especially in order to do so with all the measures added to the game already you can only start chipping away at the small advantages the killer role has when not dealing with SWF.
That doesn't seem fair to me.
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The second one is fine, but the first one is literally one of the major issues with SWFs that shouldn't be recreated in solo play.
That's the sort of information that by design is not meant to be so easily shared. Also that would buff SWFs because the more things you offload from them to the game just telling everyone by default the more you streamline communication.
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@pigslittlepet said:
I turn it off when I play killer and turn it on when I play survivor. I just got so tired if getting rage messages from someone who was mad about how I played.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428561#Comment_3428561
And I disagree about it being a significant portion of the community. I think it's just a few. They're just really loud.
A few is still a significant portion when you're at DBD's scale.
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@Freddy96 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3429013#Comment_3429013
Funny that the streamer that made this video coincidentally abandoned DBD once it was out of the "dark times"
They went back, twice now I think.
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@Freddy96 said:
I hope that by now it's clear how the more the balanced the game becomes the more boring its becoming.
Maybe it's due to the fact that some people like to feel as the power role or "bully" the other side but in my opinion it has more to do with the fact that by nerfs and mechanics removal anything that deviates from m1 on gen or spacebar on pallets is gone.
For example burning a wraith was clearly broken but it was something that added some interaction with a killer other than just spacebar, while removing crows that were swarming your teammates was something ok in my opinion that offered a bit of extra mechanic, rather than staying on your generator you'd run around with your flashlight trying to help your teammate thus, reducing gen speed, making killer-survivor interaction more frequent.
Another issue is BHVR war to small numbers. Let's take into example ataxic respiration addon: what kind of balance does -5,5% to a QOL addon offer? It's a niche addon and it would've still been a niche addon even if they buffed it by 100% considering nurse would still need to recharge her blinks.
Or why would you remove bloodpoint bonus to the 2 medkit addons? getting 500 extra bps per match doesn't offer any competitive advantage whatsoever unless the devs are still stuck in a wolrd where 10k bps is a pip as if 90% of the playerbase still plays for pips.
Now if this wasn't enough, imagine a world where all perks, addons, offerings and items are gone. The game would surely be more balanced than it is right now but it would be incredibly boring and pointless.
In conclusion i think that you should stop let us wait 3 months to nerf blighted crow by 0.05% or give us perks that allow the killer to gain 1% haste for 0.5 seconds, DBD thrived when it was the most unbalanced ######### ever, noone gives a damn about being efficient on gens or strategically secure 2nd stage in the basement.
At it's most unbalanced period known as the Dark Times, that's a real thing btw. DBD was not thriving.
https://youtu.be/4yDzXugntPc -
@HoodedWildKard said:
Map bans? Iffy. We'd never see coldwind or swamp again if killers could ban maps
Killer bans? Maybe only one per player and swfs can only choose one between them. Two would mess with mmr too much. It seems unfair to force players to endure genuine phobias, and it might help prevent ragequits.
It would do less than nothing for ragequits and you'd be making the killer experience actively worse. There are other ways to address phobia issues in games that much better suited than banning killers. They could put in an option that could be toggled by those that need it to turn the character model into something less likely to trigger phobia responses like a wire frame of grey body model.
I know this is just a random thought discussion, but there is literally zero benefits to banning characters in DBD. Some would say diversity in killers played, but I would argue that getting their via bans rather than improving lesser picked killers isn't really helpful. Also, what does the killer get out of this? Games with bans have both sides able to ban and both sides are on a surface level equally affected by the bans. DBD isn't built like that so what does the killer get in this hypothetical situation if 4 people ban every killer they enjoy and have put time into? Do they get to back out of the game lobby with no penalty? Or if this happening before getting into a lobby what do you do if someone is playing a killer than is getting banned so often their queue times inflate massively?
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@Zeon_99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428653#Comment_3428653
There would only be two bans for you individually, or two per swf. 1 of them is always going to be Skull Merchant for obvious reasons, if not her than Twins. The other one will most likely be one of the many annoying killers in the game, but that could be anyone who that person doesn't like. There's so many preferences that I doubt anything would change for anyone except for Skull Merchant players, but that's deserved tbh.
That isn't deserved and you gravely underestimate the vitriol people carry in the community when given the tiny shred of control.
Let's set aside the personal behavior concerns and talk game balance though. Pretty much any game where bans are a normal part of the game both sides tend to have the ability and necessity to ban out characters. DBD isn't designed in a way where that holds true as survivors are essentially all the exact same character. Only killers are functionally unique so giving survivors to the ability to ban killers while literally being immune to the effects of bans is insanely lopsided.
That is a recipe for disaster before you even get to the things I mentioned before.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
I agree that you cannot "train" people to not tunnel as if it's some moral choice.
If BHVR wanted to de-incentivize tunneling they would be looking for ways to do it. Tunneling happened when gen regression was meta and it'll continue happening the more people gain experience and the more they want to win. The problem might not even be tunneling itself. The problem is the difficulty and sometimes inability of solo survivors dealing with certain strategies (tunneling, camping, 3 gen) that require the whole team to be on the same page, all survivors knowing how to deal with each strategy accordingly, all playing for the same goal and most importantly being able to co-ordinate with each other.
Killers who claim they are tunneling for whatever reason other than wanting to win are just coping. There's nothing wrong with wanting to win. In every game where winning matters, the strongest strategies are usually the ones that are deemed safest, least interactive with the enemy and maybe simplest. Wanting to win in style (like say without add-ons or perks) is a different category on its own.
The problem is that the game is balanced around SWF, so those strategies have to stay around and solo survivor suffers in the process when they need to have the ability to be more self-reliant.
But not every killer tunnels to win though.
There are a lot of killers who've come to the forums over the years and straight up admitted they'll tunnel people out just to be annoying. Straight up have talked about how they threw very winnable matches just to tunnel someone out.
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428447#Comment_3428447
The game would be healthier without it honestly. Balancing would be better for both sides.
Now I don't expect it to happen because it's already in the game and people will quit because they can't play with their friends which is somewhat understandable.
That wouldn't make the game that much healthier considering that is how the game originally launched.
It did not launch with the ability to play with friends, that was added later when people kept asking for it. The game is only somewhat more "balanced", but from previous experience the biggest issues back when we didn't have SWF were issues related to players generally not feeling like playing as a team was necessary. Solo Q issues won't be solved by making the game go back to perpetual solo q as that implies that the game is balanced around SWF which it isn't, at least not in anyway that soloq doesn't benefit from.
From the killer perspective it would feel more balanced for a while until everyone just relearned/learned to use the old methods of communication that exist in the game. DBD players at one time were actually developing the necessary communication skills to functionally coordinate, but I think that has mostly died out now. Yet, if people got back into doing that, after a while people who can coordinate will still be just as strong as before. So in the long run it wouldn't help killers more than say substantive QoL improvements made to killers who aren't good.
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Killer bans would be horrible.
Basically if a killer has an active tome they'd be instabanned until the tome ended making the archives basically trash.
Killers that are generally considered fun to play by killer mains are instabanned. Goodbye Wesker, Blight, Nemesis, Nurse, Ghostface, Huntress. Might as well delete them from the game.
Does a killer have a strong addon? Instabanned. Myers, Spirit, Pinhead, Clown, Twins just never seen again. Probably lost in the same dimension Maurice went to for a while.
Like the amount of damage bans would do to this game is wild.
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@Brandon48 said:
Not sure if it’s common practice for game company’s to do but would it be possible to have regularly updated statistics about the game here on the forum?
Things like kill rates, perk usage, character prestige rates, add on usage etc. Would be interesting.
We usually get some stats during the anniversary stream and we used to get Q&A streams on a fairly regular basis. Obviously they have that data, but from what I remember them saying in the past is that while they have it they don't normally think about putting in a player side consumable form most of the time. The community also has had a habit of putting more emphasis on data than they probably should and using it to make blanket statements on everything from survivor or killer balance bias to whether or not the devs are secretly ignoring [insert x issue here].
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428350#Comment_3428350
I see the light now
Don't tough gens, don't go for saves, move from locker to locker as long as I escape.
Down and put on the hook don't move get the kill rinse and repeat till 3k-4k.
I truly get it! My eyes are open to what it takes to be a skilled DBD player.
Thank you once again
I don't know why you're trying so hard to be patronizing.
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428276#Comment_3428276
Gotcha do nothing takes skill
Thanks for setting me straight 🙂
I'm not even sure how to interpret this aside from the obvious attempt at being snarky.
You want a system to try its utmost best to put you in matches with evenly matched killers and teammates. The system we have is trying its best to do that, but it is a dumb set of code that doesn't know how to parse nuance from the data points it already has. Adding more data points will not fix the system as the system can not understand the nuance or context that created the data points. It takes the definitive results from your games and moves your hidden number up or down and then it tries to pick people who have their own hidden number roughly in the same area as your own. If it can then great it considers it has done its job, but if it can't, it is programmed to the increase the range between your number and everyone else's until the lobby is filled. That's it. It can't really determine why someone who if observed by a human would be considered lower skilled than you even if you gave it a thousand different points of data to track it wouldn't necessarily understand the context of why the data is the way it is. Just that the data is what it is.
Humans add context to data sets while computers make data sets easier to compile and can make basic judgments on the end result. If you want a degree of consistency in teammate skill level you would never leave it up to SSBM to do that for you. If you're playing solo you have to accept that there will be people whose imaginary number will be close to yours and they won't have your perceived level of competency. No amount of extra data granularity will change that.
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@stvnhthr said:
Do you think it is fair that killers who cannot win a chase or play well in any fashion can beat better teams with certain builds? Do you think it would be a better game if skill was more important than instant down and instant kill op builds?
SWF can compensate in some important ways, but the core of the game is solo queue. As a solo player you seldom get a competent or good team. Since player numbers are dwindling mmr is out the window. You seldom get matched with other players who are of a similar skill level. So you watch in frustration as your team dooms your chance to survive.
Some maps you could just hide and get low points and look for the hatch, but that is not fun. I want a challenge, but I do not like being completely outgunned by poor team play and op killer builds.
A person who lacks the fundamental basics of a killer pretty much loses no matter how strong a build they run.
Same goes for survivors there are very few absolutes in DBD. It's also the number of players isn't dwindling the game is extremely health an showing a normal rate of player attrition in line with what is recorded in previous years according to steam metrics.
As for being outgunned, if your team isn't working it really doesn't matter if the killer has a build you consider OP or run trash meme perks and addons. At that point you're most likely going to lose and that's okay sometimes there simply isn't anything you can do other than just try and get as many bp as you can not worry about stuff like hatch. The game gets infinitely less grating once you just let go of having conventional fun. Which is not a stance people can always get into or should be forced to, but this has been the game for 6 years and I can't see it changing.
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426558#Comment_3426558
Yeah that's what they say. Daily rituals, tome challenges track what you do. They can't use something like that?
I'm not talking about "Skill" I'm talking about being active in the match
Track for survivor in match - Time on gens, chases escaped from, how long were you in chase, safe rescues, heals, dull/hex totems destroyed, chests opened.
Track for Kill in match- Putting different survivors on the hook, survivors found, hits/downs, how quick to end the chase, using the killer power to injury survivors, gens/pallets kicked,.
There's probably more that could be added.
Standing around doing nothing all match waiting for others to die, and saying their the better player then the ones that are active shouldn't be.
Look at the things you're asking and consider if that is really helpful information for anything more than points?
Are you in a long chase because you are good or the killer is bad?
Safe rescues don't require skill just being patient enough to let the killer walk away in most situations. The game knows what a safe rescue is but it doesn't understand the conditions that led to a safe rescue. It doesn't know the difference between a clutch last minute run out and someone just waiting. Time on gens is useless stat considering doing gens requires no inherent skill and isn't considered skillful even by the players. You're more likely to have you matchmaking be even more lopsided considering a lot of the metrics go down the more "skill" you posses.
Putting different survivors on hook, well there is only 4 survivors and you just as likely to have an entire just walk up to hook and wait for death as you are to have to play a proper game and juggle them. The game of course doesn't have the ability to parse which situation is which.
Survivors found is ranges from completely rng where you basically spawn right next to them or so modified by perks that it can't be used to determine skill because your personal skill is pretty much a non factor. If you play killers with tracking built in then it is even less on you.
You ever watch a person get downed by a killer standing still and swinging due to an auto clicker? I have. You ever seen a survivor run up to the killer and beg for death because they've decided they don't want to play against [insert killer] for [insert petty reason]? You're technically ending chases really fast so that must mean you're very skilled.
Kicking gens and pallets sort of has an inverse effect on your chances of winning. The more you do it the more likely you are to lose as it is a time sink so the real test of skill would be to keep that number super low, but that often isn't a thing on some maps that have huge amounts of pallets in a small area. Why base anything on that stat.
All of the things you're wanting are accounted for by emblem score which used to sort of be a part of matchmaking in the past and it was worse than what we have now. Back then the game basically couldn't even try to remotely balance out your games because average emblem scores were far too inconsistent. Most SSBM matchmaking systems aren't looking at ton of data points because while for people understanding how one got to a place is great, for a system the most important thing is the end result. In DBD though it isn't great the end result is killed or escaped. As I have learned when arguing this topic from your current stance in the past with other people on this forum and then doing research on SSBM matchmaking even the TrueSkill system which is probably the most consistent SSBM I've dealt with actually was designed to use far less data than you'd think. So much of what we do in game only makes sense tous humans, but is just noise to game.
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@Ebonbane2000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427861#Comment_3427861
Again, why rob the survivor of his Kobe chances. Why would the game rob one side of anything for the time convenience of the other? Why allow slugging to rob survivors of 4 minutes for half a decade? Your excuse doesn't add up.
BHVR took away last survivor kobe chance out of respect for killer main's time, at the expense of the survivor for years. So long that in your mind it actually seems like an okay trade-off.
In the vast majority of endgame situations if you as a survivor are alone and none of the gates are remotely close to being opened and the hatch is closed, you are effectively dead. Even more so if you are on the hook, deliverance or no deliverance. If you're holding onto a deliverance proc till endgame you're not using that perk in a way that makes sense. It's to help you in hook trade situations or surprise kobe somewhere in the middle of the game not at the end when you're alone.
It's not simply out of respect for the killer's time it is also for the survivor's time as well. The game is over for both sides and by a large margin the situation the survivor would just spend their time trying to stealth around only to end up dying anyway. It's a situation where both sides just end up wasting each other's time for a result that they already knew was going to happen. There has never been a point in time since deliverance was added to the game that you could be on the hook with no other survivors left in the trial and still kobe. So I am not sure exactly what you think you've lost when this how the perk and game has pretty much functioned for its entirety.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427166#Comment_3427166
"What are you wanting to change for SWFs? The devs literally can't balance around out of game actions."
You most certainly can because most MOBAs do. They limit how many people you can play with unless it is a "team only" match.
Add the rule : no character/item/offering/perk repeats in a SWF.
That makes solo queue have an advantage over SWF.
Mobas are inherently different types of game with very different design concerns so a solution that works there can't just be copy/pasted to DBD and you know that.
People also aren't going to accept being told they can't run their builds because someone else in their squad is also running the same build. While you'd solve one problem you'd introduce another while still not solving the strength issue of SWF compared to solo because again. You can not balance the game around outside of game actions. SWFs aren't simply strong because they can stack builds across a team. They are strong because they have access to real time communication that doesn't depend on their proximity to each other in game. SWFs are just as strong perkless as they are stacking builds and solo players are never going to to be able to match that sort of strength. You can get pretty close with the new HUD and using info perks, but there isn't anything that can fill the gap that remains other than adding voice comms in game.
You want to make the playing experience worse for people simply because they chose to play with their friends. Games usually don't function like that for good reason. Even in LoL they don't change the balance of the game they just limit the amount of teamplay advantage you can bring into ranked. They cap how much of a disparity in rank you can have between yourself and your teammates which is standard practice for all mobas. Yet, they know this system has flaws as people will make smurf accounts to play with their friends in lower ranks, but outside of a smurf purge every once in while if they can confirm that someone in plat or diamond is playing in iron nothing about the game changes.
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@The_Krapper said:
I was on TikTok this morning and noticed a fairly new DBD player streaming on there, I must say I've never seen more people who didn't know what the game was just join up and start talking to this guy, he had like 800 viewers and I would argue that some lower level streamers on twitch put a lot more effort in for way less viewers, so it brings the question is TikTok better for streaming than twitch now for content creators who arent well known? It seems that more viewers are willing to just stumble on your stream and stay there than they would on twitch due to the sheer volume of options to click
It's a matter of scale.
Tiktok streaming is still a relatively new space so discoverability is likely to just be better since there are functionally less people streaming on the platform. The real question is what is the viewer to subscriber rate if tiktok has a subscription ability or at the very least the viewer to follower conversion rate. Tiktok is a platform known for having a massive click through rate due to the strength of their For You page system so videos can get really high view rates, but the accounts that made them can have really low follower numbers. I would also wonder what is the payout metrics for tiktok streaming or if you're relying solely on personal brand strength to move merch.
Tiktok is usually where I see Twitch streamers posting clips to get more eyes over to their main platform and it does work at least for the drag streamers I've been around for the past few years.
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427486#Comment_3427486
I didn't mean to put all of her power into a cooldown , but rather the button that allows her to return the drones to her favour
You pointed out that the survivors benefit from the drones more than the killer
With that in mind and assuming my idea is implemented, what are your ideas for making up for it?
If the survivors are going to gain control of the drone from their side it needs to be for a length of time that makes it worth engaging with. Say about a minimum of 10 seconds, not so long to be super punishing to Merchant but long enough to give tangible immediate value. I would say rather than give her button to reset the drones let the drones reset themselves, but for each drone out of her control her TR gets smaller and her lunges or movement speeds increase proportionally. In this way the threat of her stealth and striking potential personally increases to show her exerting more personal effort. In this way both sides gain from playing tug of war with the drones and it gives a bit of push/pull counterplay while keeping things fun. You take the drones and get a buff, but she also becomes much more aggressive.
This would probably require some changes to how drones function so they are less stationary gatekeepers and more of an omnipresent threat it is in survivors best interest to deal with rather than just ignore if placed anywhere other than objective points.
Another idea I have played with in my head is condensing the drones from 4 to 2 but each drone would be specialized for a certain task. One drone could be specialized towards tracking and emit a pulse that gives aura reading or killer instinct across a wide area at fixed intervals. While the other drone is specialized towards single target harassment and be thrown at a survivor to follow and inflict with debuff like oblivious. We drop exposed and lock ons from her kit and replace the open space with chase power similar killers like Legion, Wesker, Demo, or Billy. She's still a tracking killer, but now rather than being ultra territorial she's incentivized to play proactively rather than defensively.
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@coolgue1 said:
THE KILLER SHOULDN'T HAVE A 99% SUCESS RATE TO A HOOK EVERY TIME UNLESS THEIR AN OFFERIN BROUGH IN ITS KINDA MIND NUMBIONG EVEN PLAYING AS KILLER I KNOW I HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME TO GET TO A HOOK WITH OUT IRON GRASP AND IF I DO HAVE IRON GRASP I CAN WALK THE ENTIRE MAP WICH SEEMS VERRY OP I UNDERSTAND THE KILLER NEEDS TO GET TO A HOOK BUT THE KILLER Should HAVE TO TAKE INTO A COUNT if THEIR NO HOOK AROUND BECUASE HE DON'T RIGHT NOW HE WILL MOST LIKELY HOOK THEM unless their some one savo or body blocks which 90% of the time ant going to happen because most people play solo q are only worried about them selves until all gens are done and maybe they might help get some one off hook but that far and few between as well most just leave and let you die on hook
What exactly is the killer supposed to take into account?
The killer can't control the way hooks spawns nor can they control the way a survivor decides to run. So what exactly is the killer taking into account? Are they supposed to just drop chase and let the survivor go because the survivor ran to area where the game decided not to spawn hooks? It's not even like we have the increase hook offering anymore as it was changed to affecting hook distance. Not that it works in anyway that helps usually. Killers don't have the option to do anything to you outside of hook you so what do you expect the killer to do when they literally aren't designed with tools to deal with someone running to a deadzone. Outside of running iron grasp and agitation on perma lock which is nonsensical.
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427420#Comment_3427420
Well that's your opinion
But do you understand that what is required to convert the drone in favor of the survivors requires the same survivor to penetrate the first drone and then turn the drone in his favor? That is, other survivors cannot turn the drone in their favor unless they all hack the first drone
Uh, right, after turning the drone in their favor, the survivors need to hack at least one drone to turn the other drone in their favor, and so on.
Or you think something else?
So your overall plan is to have it so that survivors can steal her drones to get a set of buffs that are better than what she actually gets for having them in the first place.
The time it takes to disarm is drone is minimal so she's not really gaining any time advantage. She's losing access to her meager stealth and I'm gonna assume her haste buff from survivors being claw trapped.(This i'm not sure on as you've not really accounted for it in your posts)
Yet, she can just take the drones back with a button press which makes her power go on cooldown. So what does she actually benefit from? She's not really wasting survivors' time, her drones are more useful to survivors than herself and even then she can just take it back super easily at the cost of putting her power on cooldown. So she only gets hurt by this with no discernible benefits and you've still not addressed the issue because as much people tear their hair out over guarding gens with drones people refuse to interact with her power unless they are blocking the objective. People more often than not are drawing the games out because they just won't do the gens at risk. Which is the way you break her 3 gen strat, just push the gen at increased risk because once you pop one of them she can't do anything about.
Your idea unless I'm missing something from your posts don't make people more willing to engage with her power generally and it punishes her for using her power freely because she's not going to want to put out more than a single drone since they are better for survivors than her. You've given her nothing to either make her power useful in chases or make her just better in chase situations. Like almost no one wants to play a hyper territorial average m1 killer who ultimately has nothing interesting to do in a chase. I love Skull Merchant until I have to actually chase someone because it's boring cause my power doesn't matter then and just makes my chases longer for no benefit. I'm not in control of my haste effect, survivors are and if I don't put drones near gens they won't take a claw trap.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/375468/do-someting-about-hard-tunneling-for-once
You want killers to stop tunneling? Ok I would like that too assuming you mean you want to introduce a mechanic to keep survivors from tunneling generators.
Oh wait you only want the killer to stop focusing on his objective so you can keep focusing on yours. Well that's just not fair.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427044#Comment_3427044
Actually he's right you know - lol. People have given the devs some absolutely amazing ideas and the devs be like : nah DBD is hockey.
Killers need balance mechanisms for SWF. But that will never happen because the people who play this game would riot if you suggest any changes to SWF.
The plan for years was : buff solo survivor so they have info like a SWF. Well that's mission accomplished. The next step was : buff killers. That step probably won't happen.
What are you wanting to change for SWFs? The devs literally can't balance around out of game actions. How do you make up for the potential of coordination between teammates in VC? Making perks and items scale down just because someone decides to play with friend group is a recipe for disaster, same with scaling killers up. Killers do need buffs, but like there isn't anything I think they can do for us that directly addresses SWFs. You want them to basically put malware in their game so they can disable everyone's VC programs of choice?