Raconteurminator
Raconteurminator
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- Raconteurminator
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Meg, Nia, or Feng.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488658#Comment_3488658
Tunneling isn't bad because there's too much chasing, getting tunneled can honestly be very fun. Problems are: none of your teammates get to experience chase, and pretty much are just subjected to sitting on gens, there's basically an inevitability of you dying, which sucks, and being vulnerable against some killers who already have very oppressive chase powers, sucks
That is the most unique take on tunnelling I've ever seen. I don't mean that in a sarcastic way or anything, I've just never seen someone essentially say, "Tunnelling is fun, I wish my team was having as much fun as I am." I'll let you get back to the topic at hand, I just thought it was certainly a novel take.
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Hit and run is bad because there's not enough chasing, but tunnelling is bad because there's too much chasing. There seems to be a teeny tiny window where Survivor players won't complain.
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@Ariel_Starshine said:
Everyone who plays games with these types will quickly learns a first lesson: how important it is for them to win.
I could write an essay on how this effects ego and why people engage in this behavior but I won't bother. It just all comes down to ego and pride. Losing evokes shame and failure. They take the game very seriously. If they didn't they'd just hook, go for hatch and move on.
It would be lovely if, just for once, people stopped trying to armchair psychoanalyse Killer players for playing the game normally. This is what taking the game too seriously looks like; imposing your own rules on strangers and psychoanalysing them, attempting to make them seem wrong or in some capacity broken or morally bereft, when they don't follow them.
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@Steakdabait said:
They're slugging you for ego, if they don't get their 4k someone might look at their match history and see that they 3k. they can't let that happen.
No-one is doing it for ego. The goal of Killer is to literally kill everyone, and slugging the third Survivor while going after the fourth one is the most efficient way to avoid the hatch. Killers aren't entitled to a 4K, but neither are Survivors entitled to that Killer playing inefficiently to give them another chance to win.
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480935#Comment_3480935
Not 100%. If you patrol your gens you’ll find survivors. You’ll even find the survivor you hooked so you can hook them again.
Again, I'm well aware of how the game works. What I said is still 100% true. Let's not do this, yeah. Agree to disagree and all that.
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I'm well aware of how to play the game, thanks. What I said is still 100% true.
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@KateMain86 said:
Trickster feels like a very unbalanced killer, but it also depends on the map and area you're in. In the open you're basically helpless because dodging the knives feels like an impossible task. He throws them so fast you can find yourself in the dying state in no time. The fact a killer can do this from a long distance feels like too much power. Huntress hatchets have more of a risk reward feel to them because they require more precise aiming. It doesn't matter if it requires multiple knives to hit you to change health states when they're able to be spammed as fast as they are now.
The knives should not be able to continue to damage you for a short moment after changing health states. The speed boost does little to help when the damage can continue without a delay like a basic M1 attack. Apart from that, I think he throws them way too fast. Being chased by this killer is not a fun experience when the only thing that protects you from him is objects.
If Trickster is downing you from long distance, they deserve to. His power does not lend itself to long distance shots, so their tracking was either very good or someone was running in a straight line.
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@JohnWick1654 said:
Like, the game's not fun and it's an event that's going on over here.
The killers for some reason 9/10 times instantly start returning to the hook after the unhook unless they found someone.
In the meantime survivors are allergic to generators.
Survivors are also afraid to drop a single pallet, while the killers either spam the same strategy over and over again, or do a mindgame so stupid that it actually works.
Lot of killers are camping and tunneling, meanwhile survivors instead of doing gens come for the unhook, and usually the game then goes from one injured-down-hooked survivor into multiple injured and one downed.
Not to mention that the killers also just for some reason have the need to be the most biggest jerk of all time, things like denying free hook and tunneling instead, going hard on when they are given either free hook or someone DCs, or the maniacs that for some reason find going in circles between 3 closest gens fun.
There's only a fraction of players that are actually playing for fun.
"The killers for some reason 9/10 times instantly start returning to the hook after the unhook unless they found someone."I mean, what do you want them to do? If they can't find someone to chase, going back to the hook is a good idea. You go from not knowing where anyone is to having a good idea of where 50% of people are.
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If you take MFT away, nothing happens. If you take bloodlust away, the game breaks. It's not a crutch mechanic for Killers, it's a band-aid fix to stop infinites - it's not to help Killers catch you because they're bad, it's to give them the possibility of catching you in the first place. Both MFT and bloodlust deal with speed, but they're not the same, nor can they be handled the same.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3479212#Comment_3479212
A better addition to Head On is to show the aura of the locker you're in to other survivors.
Head On is a bad perk, so I put it to you that adding both effects to it would be just fine.
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I'm not even sure you'd even need a new perk. Just add a find-locker effect to Head On. A minor boost to an underused perk and also a QOL thing for certain disabilities. Everyone wins.
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Yeah, this is a great idea and something we should have had a long time ago.
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In isolation, I think it's a good perk. Factoring in that Flip-Flop, Boil Over and Breakout exist, this perk could wind up monstrously abusable well and above its intended purpose. I mean, would this stack? Would 4 people running this and Boil Over essentially become unhookable within even a few feet of a hook?
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I've noticed a trend with topics like this. 99% don't talk about balancing or making things better for both Survivors and Killers; they talk about punishment, like the Killer player has just committed a war crime and must face trial.
What people need to realise is that the choices a Killer can make, the options available to them, is an ever-decreasing thing. Everything Survivor players want to stop covers basic game-play mechanics; anti-camping is telling Killer where they can and can't stand and when, anti-tunnelling is telling them who they can and can't chase or who they're allowed to hook and when, anti-slugging is demanding someone pick up after downing even if it's the least sensible choice. It's creating a system where the choice is already made for the Killer and all their interaction involves is adhering to that choice with the best of their abilities.
Constraining the actions of Killers to the point where they're not walking on egg shells, they're walking on landmines, isn't going to fix the game. At this point, rather than advocating Killers have basic game mechanics limited or removed, Survivor mains should just start campaigning for Killer bots and be done with it. You can't program human players to enjoy playing the game in the stop-start-can-can't sort of way Survivors demand, and as they demand more and more and Killer choices become less of a choice and more conforming to choices made for them, adding bots is the only logical choice.
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If Lightborn is bad because it encourages people to not learn the game, what about all the second-chance perks? Nothing encourages poor choices quite like a lack of consequences. Of all the perks that "encourage" someone to not learn to play the game, singling out Lightborn is certainly a choice to make.
As for fun alternatives to gen-rushing, I wouldn't call 4 Survivors nix doing gens to troll with Flashlights a fun and engaging experience for the Killer. I have had it happen to me multiple times, and even a 4K doesn't feel like winning - it feels like babysitting.
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@WizardRockwell said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3476433#Comment_3476433
I take some issue with describing her as just an every-man character when she's supposed to be a final girl, akin to Laurie Strode, Sidney Prescott, Ellen Ripley etc.. Plus I have a few counter-arguments.
- Studios need more than just players of the game to watch a movie or else it'll just be a flop. Take Resident Evil for example. Whilst not everyone loves the Alice movies, they certainly did better than any of the attempts to stay faithful to the games and spawned a whole franchise.
- Annika would be related to a legacy character already established in the lore (Felix's girlfriend was pregnant when he was taken by the entity).
- You can't directly transfer a game into a movie. There would be too many characters and not enough room for development or storytelling.
- Choosing to follow an existing character would annoy a lot of the players anyway because either a) they dislike that character or b) they will argue why another character has better lore and therefore should've been the protagonist. This way it allows them to concentrate on a new character but also have the character we know and love as supporting characters.
- It gives them the opportunity to introduce a new character into the game which they can't do if it follows an already existing character.
"I think it’s a perfect opportunity for a brand new character who the audience can relate to and enter the realm of the entity through their eyes."
You literally described an every-man character.
1) Studios do need more than just existing fans of a franchise. That's done through good writing and characterisation. It isn't necessarily achieved by just adding a new main character rather than utilising existing characters in an appropriate way. Any existing character can serve as a vehicle of relatability for an audience. The Paul W.S. Anderson movies have always been critically obliterated and generally disliked by fans. They've made a profit, but aside from names and the occasional plot point, they're nothing like the games they're based on. The animated movies are more faithful to the franchise, the characters and the lore, and have been very well received.
2) Being related to a legacy character doesn't really change much. Existing fans would much rather have a legacy character, non-fans who just want a good movie won't care either way. It hurts no-one to stick to what fans know.
3) Completely true. Not everything translates to the big screen, not everything can translate to the big screen.
4) It may annoy a few people. Focusing primarily on a new character and reducing established characters to also-rans is probably more annoying.
5) True, but that shouldn't be a deciding factor. They already have a ton of potential to add movie skins for existing characters.
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Remember when the producers of Mortal Kombat introduced Cole, the every-man character that everyone hated because he upstaged the characters people bought tickets to see? That. Every-man characters do not work when introduced to an established franchise.
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It's not cheating, nor is it bannable. It's just DBD and it doesn't always work perfectly. You didn't do anything wrong.
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You wouldn't think it possible to distil the entire essence of Nic Cage into three perks, but here we are.
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Just out of interest, does David being revealed as gay coincide (roughly) with any Dead Hard nerfs or adjustments? For the most part, the only reason people play certain Survivors is to get their perks. Dead Hard, of course, has been substantially nerfed fairly recently, but a lesser change previously could have produced the slow decline we've seen in his use.
I imagine for a lot of newer players, David being free and (at the time) having the best perk in the game would have influenced his pick rate to a significant degree. DH nerfed = less people playing him to get his perk/lower use rate = less costumes. Of course, on top of that, being free, once people start buying characters, they're going to be less likely to go back to ones they haven't paid for. Meg is the exception in that respect but she also has really good perks, so there's an endless stream of newer players using her to unlock them. Good perks = higher, more consistent use rate = more costumes.
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Holy hell, that's good.
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If you put one of those perks in your loadout, you won't be stressed about Made for This, but you will be stressed about including bad-to-middling perks in your loadout.
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In all fairness, that was 2:21 of you not using your power. You're right about some maps having too many advantageous pallets, but you can't bring the pain without the chain.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469887#Comment_3469887
So if every gen is of same importance as the last one - that would mean that 1st and last gen take same amount of time (like real minutes from the start of the game - not talking about theoretical 90s). That first and last gen require same length of patrol route to protect those gens. It would imply that you have same map pressure (injuries, hooked survivors, slugged survivors, injured survivors, killer abilities like pig's active reverse bear trap, etc etc). It would mean the map has same amount of pallets (and dead zones) in first and in last gen. Same number of alive survivors. Same charges in survivor's items...
Well from my experience - there's HUGE difference between first and last gen. Saying that the first gen has same weight as last one basically means corrupt intervention does literally and exactly nothing (even though it's meta perk). And anyone that would try to imply these things to me (or say that first and last gen has same importance) - will just very clearly tell me he has no clue about this game.
I'm sorry, do you have issues understanding basic requests? Stop. Pinging me. With replies.
You're literally spouting gibberish at this point. Every gen is worth 20% of the objective, they all have the same value. We're not talking about variables, we're not talking about pallets or dead zones or niche Killer interactions - we're talking purely about generators. You put massive weight on the final gen while forgetting that to get there, 4 other gens have to pop - the last gen only means anything if you significantly delayed the objective leading up to it, i.e. the other 80% of the objective. The reason Corrupt is so good and so used is because the gens all have the same value in progressing the objective. The reason why delaying that first pop is so good, good enough to run a perk that has no value outside the first 90 seconds, is because it's 20% of the objective and it can be completed potentially in the first chase. The reason Deadlock is so good is because it can stop 40% of the objective from being completed in the first chase.
Now please, shut up. I said I had no desire to continue this conversation while you galloped around on your high horse trying to let everyone know how good you are at a videogame. Being perceived as being good at the game by a rando that shows up to flex in a topic by saying how good he is while contributing nothing to that topic has no meaning to me, likely no meaning to anyone else either. I do not care to continue this conversation, so stop pinging me or I will block you.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469701#Comment_3469701
You are putting words into my mouth that I never said. Go back to my messages and show me where I said all but last gen are totally meaningless.
On the other hand you said that if you loose 2 gens in 1st chase, then the game is lost. That's absolutely not true. It totally depends on a, which gens got done, b, how many pallets did it cost c, how many stacks from perks you got d, how much perks/items survivors had to burn in the meantime e, how much set-up (if any) did you get in the meantime.
Say if you are trapper with perfect setup around 3gen and basement and that 1 hook is in the basement, I am 100% betting on trapper win. And that's just one example out of many
No, I said depending on the Killer and the map, 2 gens lost so quickly could be an unrecoverable game state, not that it categorically is an unrecoverable game state. You implied heavily that everything but the last gen is meaningless because you told me I know nothing about the game for saying every gen is as important as the last, which is true. They're equally important, they function the same and they signify the exact same thing; that the game is coming closer to the end. You're clearly putting a massive significance on that one generator while massively underplaying the importance of the others. Now please stop pinging me with replies, I have no desire to continue this conversation.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469625#Comment_3469625
I will not say that BNP's are not busted, because they just are. Same as C33+alch ring, MDR+amulet, tombstone piece, double iri plague and so on and so forth. With those first 1-2 gens will pop no matter what. But it still won't make the game unwinnable.
And saying that every gen is as important as previous one is just showing u know nothing about game...
There are 5 generators, each generator is worth 20% of the objective. To lose 2 generators in the first 30 seconds is being 40% closer to the end game in the first 30 seconds. That's how a general sense of progression works - each thing is significant in reaching the intended end state, and no one thing happens without the other. Those first two gens will pop no matter what, but the quicker they do pop, the quicker you get to the 'important' one and the less time you have overall before the game ends. Get off your high horse. Conversation is done as far as I'm concerned.
EDIT: Double posted by mistake. It 'deleted' my post only for it to show up 15 minutes later.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469541#Comment_3469541
I play a lot of killers. Currently mostly bubba and pinhead. Before that plague, legion, dredge, spirit, wesker, twins, nurse, oni, wraith, huntress, doctor, clown, meyers and I probably forgot quite a number of others.
But the thing is, that I have the same experience no matter if I play nurse or clown (or anything in between them strength-wise). And sure, there's a huge difference between mother's dwelling vs RPD or garden of joy vs midwitch. But it's still the same thing - I just don't care about first 2-3 gens, because they are the least consequential to the end result of game.
Best example - 4x BNP means first 2 gens will pop very quickly. But if those survs are bad, they will pop maybe 1 more before the game ends in 4k. Why should I even bother thinking about fast 2 starting gens if said survs will never finish last gen? And AFAIK u can't win "more" then just 4k-ing. So what gives?
And if they're semi-competent/have a functional frontal lobe, in that exact same scenario, you lose. It's a bad example. You went from, "A thing happened and then I won" to, "Here's a very specific example that would be unrecoverable in a lot of circumstances, but the Survivors are bad, so it's fine." At this point I'm not quite sure even you know where you're going with this.
While the last generator is the one that leads to the end game, every generator before it is equally important, as the faster they pop, the faster you get to that last one and less time you have to accumulate hooks so it isn't a complete snowball. If you're encountering Survivors so bad on the regular, that you can shrug off losing 2 gens in the first 30 or so seconds, the MMR system has either blessed you with an infinite downpour of idiocy or you win nowhere near as much as you claim.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469337#Comment_3469337
Maybe because I am surv main and if I can do it, so can most killers?
Also as stated before - what does it matter that first 2 gens get completed before first hook? The end result of 4k is the thing that counts. Right now killer's average kill rate is above 50%, so why should there be any need to buff killers even more (do you really need to 4k at 5 gens to feel good? Doesn't normal 3-4k suffice?)
It matters significantly. Depending on the Killer and the size of the map, there's likely no coming back from losing 2 gens within the first chase. Your statement lacks nuance; what Killer were you playing? What perks did you have? What perks did the Survivors have? What map was it? What items did they have? What do you think your MMR is? Etc.
Simply going: "Oh, this thing happened to me, then I did a thing and won. And if I can do it, so can anyone else!" is meaningless.
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@UnknownKiller said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3467965#Comment_3467965
No one is saying to ban it.But if players use swf the trial could have minor modifications to boost killer
I wasn't saying anyone was suggesting it be banned, or suggesting myself that it should be. I was just musing on why it couldn't be even if we wanted to.
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Ultimately, the game isn't, nor can it ever be, balanced around voice chat. When someone can tell their team mates what perks you're running, where you are exactly and what Killer you're playing before you've even encountered them, that's something almost impossible to balance around. It's inherently advantageous at even the lowest end of the spectrum (e.g. being able to tell your team Franklin's is in play so they all pre-drop items) and only drastically increases in effectiveness as you climb MMR. That's not to say the advantage is insurmountable, but even basic communication necessitates that the Killer be much, much better than the team they're facing in order to win.
There isn't anything Behaviour can or would be willing to do about it. Make it bannable? Good luck proving that in 99.99% of reports (which would no doubt go up one million percent were it made a reportable offence). All it would do is negatively impact streamers and their 100% free advertising of the game, which will never be allowed to happen.
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I think the votes can be split into two distinct groups.
Group A: Voted Dredge
Group B: Has never accidentally gotten into a locker Dredge was hiding in.
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"Didn't have enough skill to play the game right"
You see, here's your problem. You're taking your subjectivity and attempting to apply it as an objective standard. You don't get to decide what is or isn't playing the game correctly. Marshalling for changes while you hold such an undeniable bias won't get people to listen or take you seriously, but it will get people to do the opposite. To compare playing the game within the confines of its rules as admin rights or game-allowed cheating is just, well, silly.
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Singularity is ten times stronger than a human. For context, a gorilla is six times stronger and can quite happily turn you into person-jam. I don't see that being a maybe.
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No-one tell them about Dead Hard.
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The solution to 3-gens isn't to make them free gens.
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They wouldn't even need to create an animation, they could just reuse the time-over one.
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Yeah, Nurse is very no-perks-no-problem.
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Massively situational, but still probably a nightmare on Ironworks.
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It's quite possible your firewall is being a jerk like mine was. Check if EAC is on the allowed list, then if it isn't, you know what to do.
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Your story has both the Leon on the ground being camped with you and also on gens. Killer couldn't camp the both of you while waiting for another Survivor if you weren't both on the ground together at some point.
You had Schrodinger's Leon and still lost.
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Even if there's no speed burst, it's still a free health state, which is the real issue.
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@KolbyKolbyKolby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456108#Comment_3456108
love it, but...
😭😭
how do you go negative speed??
That's for science to figure out, damn it!
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Killer:
Arthritis (Lithe): Whenever a Survivor performs a rushed vault, they move at -150% for 3 seconds.
Survivor:
Apathy (Agitation): Decreases Killer Movement speed by 18% when carrying a Survivor.
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The Starstruck/Agitation one? It's quite a popular build with a lot of creators at the moment.
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@Dennis1242 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456003#Comment_3456003
Yes but I just want to let them know that by playing the way they are playing makes some matches miserable for the survivors and they should at least not do it all game. I know I could just ignore and act like that match didn't happen but I really don't want to see as many tunnelers, sluggers and facecamping killers, maybe it is their own strategy to win but it is not fun at all and games are made to be fun
You're not wrong, but fun is an incredibly subjective experience. It's just two sides trying to convince the other that their subjectivity is the objective truth, neither side really being willing to listen. I've been where you are, trying to convince randos to see the light and play a game in a way that I find more appealing, but ultimately, you will make yourself miserable long before you convince anyone of anything, friend.
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@Dennis1242 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455996#Comment_3455996
I would love to do that but trust me, after a killer tunneled you the whole game,slugged you and was still toxic you can't just not say anything like that he should learn how to play "properly"
You don't get to choose how other people treat you, but you're a human with autonomy; you get to choose how to react. You're perfectly capable of saying nothing. No-one forced you to regress to the level of a 12-year old, you chose to do it.
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While the safest way would be to reduce the radius of the blast, I think reducing the effect of the EMP based on distance from the target could also work. Keep the same radius but make it so pods caught at the edge of the blast are disabled for X% less time. That way it requires Survivors to get closer for maximum effect but they still have a lesser option in a pinch.
Crazy solution: you're detonating an incredibly powerful EMP right next to your own skull. Pretty sure that's going to negatively impact the pink squishy thing, that relies on electrical impulses to function, that you keep inside of it. Inflict Blindness and Oblivious for X seconds whenever you use an EMP. Make using the thing actually cost something, and make using multiple in a single chase a risk rather than flat reward.
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You can collapse the chatbox already, just click the arrow. It generally likes to forget you've closed it and that it should stay closed, so keep that in mind.
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Why is it so important for Survivors to do gens quickly? Why sweat so hard to get them done? I mean, it just leads to harder and harder matches and more mental stress. We can psycho analyse all we want and put it down to "asserting dominance," but there's a much simpler explanation.
It's a game with a predefined win condition that people are working towards; both Survivors and Killers. Winning is the optimal outcome that rewards the most pips and bloodpoints. Those harder, more stressful games don't come from a few 4Ks here and there, they come from the MMR system being an absolute desk.