Pulsar
Pulsar
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030204#Comment_4030204
The idea of punishing killers for tunnelling in 1st iteration is just completely stupid. Killer's job is to kill, and purposefully ignoring survivors who run directly at you, either intentional and misplay, is totally beyond stupid.
Instead of punishing tunneling, buffing killers who don't tunnel is the way to go.
Tunneling is already too strong, and certainly too easy. We don't need to introduce another mechanic that's a rival in strength.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030217#Comment_4030217
I suppose, it's just a shame to have so much delayed/taken away when people like me are supporting them buying cosmetics and passes and all the chapters, because I love this game so much.
Just to see it burnt in front of me with wasted time, like come the heck on, can we please start just polishing this game at the very least with this QoL initiative with the love it deserves.Not to be mean, but why would they start now? People have been buying and supporting them for almost a decade, and quite honestly, the game is really ######### quality. Amazing concept, nothing else like it, but the polish is unacceptable from any other publisher.
You'd think that since they have no other successful games, they'd prioritize their runaway hit a little more.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030128#Comment_4030128
I don't agree when the previous build was right there to use, could have even used this time to be doing major bug fixing or polish to the game.
Instead we have chapters delayed and possibly lost a survivor chapter over this and that's just upsetting.
So many killers could have recieved meaningful bug fixes with this time, actual Quality of Life, Legendaries too could have been bug fixed also (so many are bugged rn).
IDK it's just really disappointing how this has been handled, I'd rather get meaningful polish and bug fixes over cold feet constantly over systems, there is taking feedback and then there is just being afraid to commit a direction.Could've used it, but they decided not to.
I figured they wouldn't, so scrapping a bad system is the best out of a terrible situation of their own making
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030118#Comment_4030118
”seemed so”
so projection, theory, whatever? Then why repeating the same when you were told it’s not even close so.I really do not understand the problem here.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030128#Comment_4030128
Man, aside from balance, first iteration makes the game completely linear and boring for both sides.
Everyone's forced to play in exactly the same way in every single match, it takes away all the macro-management from both parties. Is that what you really want?
Thats the neat part.
You arent. You could still tunnel perfectly well, you just had a penalty, which made you think twice.
Unlike live, where if you want to win, you tunnel every time. Talk about linear.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030128#Comment_4030128
Oh great instead of something we get nothing I completely believe Devs ain't gonna try anymore to solve slugging, tunneling and camping we just gotta deal with it apparently. im just gonna stop playing survivor.
I would rather nothing than a half-baked change that will make things drastically worse.
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Scrapping everything is the right move.
This iteration was bad. It didn't punish tunnel, but made not tunneling more difficult.
First iteration was better, and could have worked with some relatively simple adjustments, like adding an additional hook state or two to trigger the anti tunnel penalty. Big punishment, yes, but the rewards could have been adjusted appropriately.
Scrapping it was the correct call.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030082#Comment_4030082
Merely guessed that many English-speaking CC's have been pushing tunneling and proxying for years, so it makes sense that we saw an uptick in tunneling on the most English-centric server before other servers started to see the same trends
From where you get such guess that this was pushed aggressively purely in English community if you are not even was in other one? I literally said you: no, it's not true. Tunnelling isn't more common on English speaking community regions. I played on Asian and EU servers. BHVR didn't provide any stats in this regard. So I’m wondering again, why continue to do this if more likely this guess is ultimately wrong.
The only difference is the reaction on it. The problemacy of it discussed so aggressively only on this forum, won’t deny it. But tunneling and its frequency is relatively same on every region. Before claiming different even as assumption try to prove otherwise at least. I am asking: “Can you support your opinion or it's just a simple projection to support your sentiment instead”.Still no answer, only attempts to normalize random guesses that affects on discussion.
I never said it was more common, I said it seemed like it caught on, as a commonly accepted and employed strategy, quicker than other regions.
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@CorvidXCVIII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030082#Comment_4030082
I'm going to propose a different theory than content creators being to blame (though it's still about people viewing content so meh, semantics and whatnot).
I don't think there's been any prominent competitive DbD tournament style thing based in the EU. I could be wrong but I couldn't find any in the brief time I spent looking around whilst NA and Asia (especially Korea and Japan) have had several, albeit to varying degrees of success (off to Valhalla we go).
I reckon local competitive scenes, even if the more casual players aren't involved, drive a sense of needing to be efficient and less empathetic more than the Spanish otter guy's several hour tier lists.
Eh, I think a lot of good players are European.
World Cup and DBD League are all either organized by or populated with EU teams.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029992#Comment_4029992
I doubt you are gonna be so happy about speculation if suddenly it will touch casualty and level of play of NA region. But I just assume double standards convenient for many uses on this forum. Just again — it’s not good speculating about something you don’t have actual reasons and hints for. Just looking bad. NA not a poor victim here who is suddenly just getting tunneled more often, while other regions in obliviousness because more rare facing with this “issue”. For starting such speculations u also need stats or sth, not few days playing on EU.
DC penalty was failed because BHVR can’t code properly and system was targeting different people, not actual griefers. Maybe instead of switching to something else forcing them to fix mistake first?I understand “it’s not working” complaint when we actually tried this system. It didn’t happen. Punishment wasn’t established so saying “it doesn’t work” is loud and not objectively true. Stick didn’t touch them actually, moreover, they always were encouraged, as much as lobby dodgers.
For punishment actually working apart from ban for matchmaking this game need proper SBMM. People who are DCing like this must to play with people like them, not normal one who still want to play the match. Answer is simple. Indulging their whims is speculative, and it's better to ask why people who are indifferent to the experience of other players in a match suddenly deserve the right to be prioritised.Again. If u are frustrated to the state you can’t play the game, you don’t play the game, or, play with people like you. Wait in 5 min queue only to see your teammate DCing on 5 gens. This is the only solution.
For compromise a surrender option for whole team have to exist, I don’t deny it. But for whole team. So other players don’t need to experience bad match because of some situation that makes playing pointless. If u give a carrot to such players, you're just showing them that they did the right thing and they should do it at every opportunity to get what they “deserve”.
Still unsure of what the problem is. I made no definitive statements. Merely guessed that many English-speaking CC's have been pushing tunneling and proxying for years, so it makes sense that we saw an uptick in tunneling on the most English-centric server before other servers started to see the same trends. This was in direct response to another user saying that they didn't see tunneling increase at the same times that we did.
No system is going to nab everyone. The more restrictive you get, the more innocent players you take with.
You have a timeout that can only be cleansed by actually sitting in the game AND it increases until you clear 20 games. It's a real punishment. The issue is that we've now shifted back towards people giving up in other ways, exactly as I predicted.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029971#Comment_4029971
I don’t find it good assuming what people from different part of community think if they are from different language group. I never tried to claim here “NA and EU servers complain so much because a vast majority of them are casuals, especially on survivor side, yet they expect the whole game evolving around their desire to try meme builds”. Even if it’s some wager, you understand how stupid and simply inappropriate it sounds, especially if I’m gonna use it to develop my sentiment. Better to use other arguments.
I was getting really enough from such statements because faced with stereotypes from both sides as mixed blooded person who now torn apart between three countries with completely different mindset. Not because of some language classes, but I don’t want to discuss politics here. It’s just to understand why I reacted like this.And now we doing weird proposals when not having actual experience and level of understanding of such people. I am such person, and I know what I’m talking about. So no. Just don’t try to assume and do wagers about this. You don’t realise how we are fed up when people can’t understand yet still dare to make assumptions about our comprehensions or feelings. And the worst part your opinion more likely gonna be approved by your group while mine screwed out because I belong to different mentality. Even if in this term I have more experience than you. Just because your group is in majority on this forum.
When I was first in DBD, media and my friends showed me tunneling is a basic macro skill. Yeah. Skill. As well as countering it. That’s why I not having issues with it even having less than 1k hours. That’s why killer rates are lower when they showed Japanese stats. The answer on how to deal with mindset is to build another mindset rather than finding solutions in “it should go”. By our logic, meta is countered by meta. You shouldn’t expect meta be heavily nerfed and casual play be more encouraged, because it’s irrational and breaking fundamentals of logic. If meta going against casualty, meta have to win. You shouldn’t expect to win as killer during genrush and bunch of second chances if “spreading pressure”, you create it by making situations stressful and putting other side in disadvantage. Same with survivors. At least I got this from veterans of Russian and Asian players I played against or with because MMR on such regions is a mess because of lack of servers. And that this game suffer from other problems that need changes rather than making a tragedy out of playstyle how people do on this forum, trying to relate every issue with style they have hard time with only because themselves failing in building mindset differently.You claimed DC doesn’t work because stick not working with this situation, yet “for tunneling it’s different because stick never existed, while carrot was provided”. I remember this dialogue.
Yet you ignore same happening with DCes. They dumped this system because it was technically bad. This stick wasn’t punishing people who go next. Never was. Yet now they provided with carrot of less harsh punishment and it makes it even worse. I feel your claims were always extremely biased in such terms. You are defending the same stuff you judge on other side, and to support this, making even more double sided claims about community.
I think it's perfectly fine to speculate, which is what I was doing.
I am sorry you have such a conflict in your personal life. I couldn't imagine.
I do not understand this third paragraph.
Yes, different regions have different styles of play. It isn't controversial that point that out. They may as well be different games with how differently some regions play.
Yes, that is correct. I do not believe in continuing in an action that has only ever failed. Why not try something different?
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029983#Comment_4029983
DC has next to 0 penalty….get 2 free DC then a 5min timeout, 20 matches restes it…. go next prevention doesnt work at all so people can, will and are still going next. abandon requires everyone to be downed or just being downed twice yourself….i lost count how many times people have abandoned the instant the option comes up because they were downed twice and recovered while the killer chased away a flashlight player. anyone can DC or go next pen free simply by spreading the method out between the three ways, DC, go next and abandon
One free, I thought. 20 matches is a ton.
You cant suicide. Go Next works.
Okay, so you either won or are about to win. Boo hoo.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029977#Comment_4029977
they are not being punished, the amount of people DCing, going next, abandoning for free shows that people can sabotage a match with no punishment time and time again
DC has a penalty. You cant go next. Abandon has very specific conditions.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029972#Comment_4029972
so you rather no innocent punished even if it means the guilty get no punishment?
The guilty are getting punished, they just arent being punished to your liking.
But yes, if given the choice, I will always choose the option where the least amount of innocents suffer.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029968#Comment_4029968
yet new players mean they are playing the game, not just replacing old players but the player count is increasing every year. not the sort of thing you would see if people are quitting
You don't really see a lot of growth either though.
The game has remained functionally stagnant since 2021. Popular licenses can only increase the stats for so long. Usually about ~ 6 months. Tokyo Ghoul, FNAF and TWD are all very popular. They've kept the numbers quite high. If January is ST, this current inflation will continue. It will come back down though, right around the average again.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029941#Comment_4029941
im saying proof isnt required, if i see griefing im reporting it. its up to bhvr to decide if its ban worthy. your saying these "bad" players can grief and thats ok because intent cant be proven. and your ok with that?
I think BHVR will ban innocent players, yes. We've already seen them do it.
Yes, I'd rather no innocents be punished.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029939#Comment_4029939
Even the fact people have audacity to speculate about what people probably differs from making me dying from cringe. This theory still used to support your opinion, and this is “whataboutism” I believe you are hating yourself shouldn’t be used.
If you are THAT curious, I can welcome you with German and Russian community. U aren’t gonna be happy with your theory, because veterans from there more likely gonna despise your theory about them.
I never seen so much complaints about tunneling rather than on this forum from purely English Speaking people. And I saying this as person who was welcomed with DBD firstly not through English community.I do not understand, can you try to restate this?
Also as a funny aside, I took a couple of classes once upon a time to learn German and Russian, amongst other languages.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029965#Comment_4029965
they havnt stopped playing, player numbers are still up according to the figures and have been steadily increasing since 2021 (a big spike with fnaf) but its settled down and still the numbers are up. let people DC on a whim and watch the player count drop. its a pvp game, if people have to play with bots they simply wont play and the numbers would show it.
Most are newer players. DBD is just a constant cycle of new replacing old.
You can kind of see that reflected on the Forums too. Not too many people around from pre-2020, fewer still from before my time.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029937#Comment_4029937
i have had many notifications in game stating that action has been taken when i report them for such things as working with the killer. maybe they were just playing sub optimally? whos to say? whos to say a survivor leading the killer to other survivors isnt just playing badly or if they are intentionally trying to sabotage the match. or maybe a killer is keeping 3rd survivor alive while the 4th hides for hatch….is the killer playing badly and just cant got to that hook? or is the killer griefing?
So, you ARE saying that people will get banned for being bad, and that you are totally fine with that and not only that, but you've previously abused the system yourself.
Interesting viewpoint, to be sure.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029889#Comment_4029889
I like how we doing random “researches” without actual any proofs about people who don’t speak English so you conveniently can replace their actual opinion on any sentiment you want to see. Yeah, English community “so special” in this term.
When people on this forum will finally learn to bring evidences before having audacity to speak about huge parts of community out loud like that :/Did you see how I said the word "wager" instead of "this is definitely for sure the case"?
I assure you, the choice was intentional.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029914#Comment_4029914
care to explain? i mean your going down the prove intent path yet someone can bodyblock another player and say oops sorry controller died. dodgy ground with the whole prove intent because it can suggest that breaking the rules is ok as long as you cant prove intent. we really want to go down that road?
Prove that someone playing sub-optimally is bannable.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029899#Comment_4029899
less is better than what we have now. when its more effort to hide the throwing and to try soft throw under the guise of being a bad player then people would usually just play the match. currently its so easy to throw people do that instead. Intent is actually easy to prove and its not requirement, its already reportable to grief players, such as body blocking a player in the corner….intentional? or did the controller run out of batteries so cant move out the way? proving intent isnt necessary for punishing that player that was body blocking.
Oof, terrible take.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029891#Comment_4029891
intentionally? i dont think so. practice often means the bad players improve, they learn. with a working matchmaking system good players wouldnt have bad players and wouldnt have players ruining the match. DCing because they dont like something doesnt improve like practice does
Prove intent.
If we further clamp down on DC's, we will see less. We will see more soft throwing, which is indistinguishable from bad play. Unless you can prove an intent to throw, and purposefully harm the game, your position leads to nothing.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029883#Comment_4029883
Yeah I understand that EU, Oceanic, and NA are all very different games. Though, the only way I could check personally would be vpn, and I don't really want to do that. I'm content to take people's word for it.
But yeah, my friend group used to play daily until 6.1 and we all kind of drifted away or lost interest after that.
One of my most memorable games that I remember personally feeling burned out by was a wraith on Groaning Storehouse. He hooked Ada, then came over to kick the gen I was working on by main. I was standing in plain view no more than 8m from the gen and he just went back to tunnel her out. It was 3v1 at 5 gens, and I basically couldn't even play the game even though the killer was actively ignoring everyone else. The "counter" to eruption was not touching the gen until the next down, which was nearly as bad as being incapacitated for 26 seconds (and sometimes worse, depending on chase length).
Totally engaging and riveting gameplay, but at least tunneling was a nearly guaranteed win for people who decided to take advantage of the new meta.
That was the game I realized I was personally getting burned out and frustrated, and took a break from the game myself.
I keep hoping to see patch notes that will make this game a daily play again, maybe even bring my friends back, but so far I think I'm just hanging onto a dream that will never be realized.
I've played on EU when the servers were all weird a couple years back. Definitely different, even accounting for ping.
You and I both hope our friends will return and it'll be like the old days again. Much like you, I doubt that will ever happen.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029867#Comment_4029867
being bad at the game isnt the same as intentionally not playing going into the match with the intention of leaving a useless bot behind, going afk, throwing the match, ruining the game as a whole. its griefing plain and simple and in no way should that be allowed.
Bad players "throw" all the time. Bad players grief all the time. Bad players "ruin" the game all the time.
Thank you for proving the point.
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@CorvidXCVIII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029876#Comment_4029876
I'm EU based and yeah, my experiences with this game seem to be quite different from yours or Pulsar's (not discrediting either of you). All of the following is my experience, it most likely won't resonate with you but it's how things were for me.
The 6.1.0 patch happened during the time DbD was an almost daily game for me and a couple of friends. It wasn't that update that lead to us all eventually drifting and I don't recall tunneling being any more or less common during it either. In fact, tunneling wasn't very common at all, especially compared to how it's been since I came back (just before Kaneki's release).
NA seems to have taken the strategies to heart more quickly than other regions.
I'd wager because of media consumption. There's a large part of Europe where English isn't the main language, but most English speaking CC's have said tunneling is the way to go if you want to win for years. Ergo, more people tunnel in an English speaking continent.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029842#Comment_4029842
simply increase the pens for DC and go next prevention. if people afk or intentionally try to go next then they would get a pen stopping them from joining another match. treat them like hackers, the game is better off without hackers ruining the game just like its better off without people DCing or not playing the match….just ban the lot of them.
Let's ban bad players too, while we're at it. That's the route we'll be taking after even more punishment doesn't work.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029770#Comment_4029770
why not buff the lower tier to the strength of blight
Because that's a terrible idea.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029593#Comment_4029593
Even if they didn't half ass things it still wouldn't be enough for y'all
Who is you all brother
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029573#Comment_4029573
And there you have it you have proved my point even when they try it's never deemed worth it enough and always want more go figure.
No, it's because they half-ass everything.
It's like the anti-tunnel changes. They are gonna half-ass them and never touch it again. They fix nothing, make new problems and move on.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029565#Comment_4029565
Incentives like bonuses and BP, Nerfs and buffs to perks, killers and items. Reworks and punishments to play styles.
You want things to be worth it but what the community deems as worth is never enough
Go figure, people don't want to sit in a lost match, and they don't want the game to be decided in the first minute.
More BP, a comeback mechanic for Survivor, less strength in the 4v1 and more strength in the 3v1, etc etc
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029360#Comment_4029360
We've also tried making thing worth it and it doesn't work and people still DC.
Your approach has already failed yet you can't see it.
How so?
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029258#Comment_4029258
You can also loop most killers including kaneki and krasue for more than a minute if you are good enough, if we are saying the survivors you are facing are everage it stands to reason the killer is also average, an average ghostface is a free escape unless you are throwing.
Evidently not. Ghostface has always been pretty average, usually hovering around 55-60% KR.
You say that an average Ghostface is a free escape, but you fail to make the Survivors average as well.
I haven't invested a lot of time into him, but I do well. He isn't difficult, it's easy to get value and people should stop underrating Killers they don't understand.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029328#Comment_4029328
The problem with that is that fun is subjective. There are more then enough people who have no problem with legion.
Plus in legions case when people say "mending is annoying" what they mean is "I don't want to be forced to do something other then gens when I am not chased". That gets pretty clear when every single rework idea that doesn't completely changes them switches mend for something the survivor can just ignore and keep doing gens and that is then seen as a fix.
And a good portion of legion hate also comes from the hit and run playstyle. Many survivors want a chase and with legion you mostly get the chase only when you are the last one he reaches. I had so many dcs no matter the killer by simply not chasing that one survivor that is a bit to good in chase or that shows up too often on my screen.
In the end if a character really is a major problem then bhvr of course needs to change them but we are talking major issues. Just not liking the killers power is not a major issue or every killer would need to be reworked. Hell even trapper regularly gets complaints
Not sure how you cant see why people dislike him.
Maybe its bias, idk.
He has very real design issues that have been present for his entire lifespan.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029433#Comment_4029433
Did I get misinformation? Because i assumed she wasnt touched because they claimed it was due to them not wanting to upset the current mains?
This is an honest question
Yes, because said mains have shot down both of the potential reworks we've seen. Said they wanted her to go back to SM 2.0
Either BHVR is still cooking something and simply not asking for input anymore, or they've decided to stop whatever they were doing and focus on things they have a shot at fixing.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029427#Comment_4029427
I am not saying she shouldn't have been touch, I am saying elbow droping something isnt good.
Completely gutting something is nerver good, like how they did to fog vials
The reason she wasnt touched(reworked) in ptb was specifically because Freddy's multiple reworks upset his mains. So now you can at best do one rework, without backlash
It also doesn't help that there is a knee-jerk reactions that has been happening with ptb and items.
No, she wasn't reworked because BHVR seems to have realized it's a waste of time.
Most players hate her, and hate the gameplay she had even without 3-genning. Most of her mains have made it clear they want that old gameplay back.
BHVR can't win, and it seems like they've decided to not waste the resources.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029418#Comment_4029418
Exactly. GUTTING a killer shouldn't be the answer. Mechant is the shining reason as to why not to gut a killer and Freddy is the example why you shouldn't rework willy nilly.
Both of those are last resorts not "MERCHANT THEM" which I've unironically seen?
Thanks for wording it so much better then me!
SM had a 70% KR without DC's or suicides, she deserved to be nerfed.
Freddy's rework was insanely popular for quite some time.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029380#Comment_4029380
so people dont like doing gens yet they decide to play survivor knowing their objective is boring? i just dont see the logic. gens are boring so they decide to go the role that has a boring objective, they dont like being tunneled out because its boring but also dont like mending because thats annoying, they want matches to be faster because they dont like doing gens but then dont like killers killing faster as the survivors dont get a chance to play the game. This is why i just dont understand what it is that people want. it seems almost every turn there is a contradiction in what the player base actually wants.
People like interaction in moderation.
Doing too much of one thing isn't fun.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029370#Comment_4029370
never actually understood that term… "mending simulator". the whole point to survivors is do gens, pressing a button now and then. playing a gen simulator is ok but mending isnt? personally i thought people would love the mending thing considering there is such an issue with tunneling lol.
legion was removed from 2 v 8 due to being teamed with oni, which im not sure was the right call. i think oni should be the one to be removed. super fast, 1 hit down slug master v legion hit and run… i rather deal with legion. standard 1 v 4, legion has major downfalls and can be countered easier than most killers, hes engaging with the survivors via chase, not built to tunnel or camp. As a whole player base, i honestly dont think people know what they want.
People don't like doing gens either. It's extremely boring and it's why we won't see gen times increased again. Mending is just extremely annoying.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029328#Comment_4029328
in dream land i agree, killers should be fun to play as and against but in reality, whats fun for the killer isnt always fun for the survivor. Changing killers like legion so they are fun for survivors to go against would probably make it not fun for the killer so they wouldnt play legion any more. i mean killers play legion now because they enjoy that killer. Its unrealistic to expect every single killer to be fun to go against for everyone due to how different each killer is. like making every map fun to play on for everyone, some like indoor maps, some like outdoor maps. at some point people will need to play on a map they dont really like or play against a killer they dont really like or deal with a perk they dont like.
There's a difference between, for example, people like me who hate Dredge.
Sure, there's people who dislike him, but there's a lot of dislike for Legion. They even removed him from 2v8 over it.
It's a judgement call, at the end of the day, but we should strive to have engaging gameplay for both sides and Mend Simulator isn't it.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029315#Comment_4029315
When people realize we get something changed by complaining everyone will complain about everything fun or not since people's fun is different to the person
How do you think things get changed in the first place lol
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029353#Comment_4029353
Ain't hard to see old posts but I digress your own argument applies to your own opinion keep trying to make things worth it'll just make people entitlement grow greater
Right right.
We've seen this double down method absolutely doesn't work.
Why not give a different approach a try?
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029117#Comment_4029117
Your meaning of worth won't be the same as someone elses your logic applies to your own argument you can keep trying to make it worth staying but people will still be dcing over every small inconvenience. Heck I remember you saying DC penalties shouldn't even exist and I know that's completely wrong
Which is curious you remember, since you only made an account recently.
Hmmm.
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@BloodBird said:
This is just the opinion of one dedicated DBD player.
While killer can be tough and survivors can be intense to deal with what with their second chance perks, gen rushing and toxicity.
I personally feel like when it comes to this game, a LARGE majority of killer players (non casuals) don't really spend the time to pick a killer they like and actually get to know them properly, learn them, understand them and select builds that genuinely compliment them.
A huge amount of players approach killer like, oh whats the meta perks, pain res, dead mans, and just dumps it on any killer they play. I firmly believe any killer in DBD, be them a tier or d tier, has unique assets that can pair with meta or even off meta perks and when you ask, whats the best build for a killer. Meta doesn't mean best, meta literally means most efficient, and most popular.
A few examples.
I don't play legion, but you will commonly see the Enduring Spirit Fury build on him right now, cause it actually makes him viable.
For killers I do play
Doctor is a c tier killer, but my hex build on him, which centers around protecting devour, is very hard to counter because of the nature of the doctors power.
Even moreso, for all the complaints about the pallet density update, how important tunneling is and how bad gen rushing is and you needing 4 slowdowns. I am a Wraith main, and my current build is literally just enduring, spirit fury, brutal and hubris. I recently went on a 28 game win streak with it without tunneling in any of my games.
No slowdown
No tunneling
In spite of the pallet density update
As a b tier m1 killer.
I'm not saying all of this to ego on people or call other people bad. I'm saying this cause while the game is a bit survivor sided right now, I truly think peoples approach to DBD as a killer player is often misguided, relying more on meta perks and strategies rather than learning to understand the strengths and weaknesses of the killer you play and how to elevate them into something you can use against most players.
I sincerely believe you can do this with most of the killers in the game, if you spend the time to properly learn your killer and test builds to find ones that blend well with the killer, and your playstyle.This is shockingly true.
Killer is not a one-size-fits-all role. You have to dedicate some time to learning your craft.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029315#Comment_4029315
yes true but in legions case the complaints are "i find this boring" which first of all is super subjective and second its not a good enough reason to change a chracter.
when its not broken dont fix it. there will always be a character that is "annoying" to face and legion has to be the way they are with the mend or the whole legion concept doesnt work and do we just want to have dash and ranged killers with the ocasional stealth killer?
Characters should be both fun to play as and against. If they aren't, we should be looking at how to make them more fun.
Shouldn't really be a debate at all.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029278#Comment_4029278
ofcourse things will change but that does not mean they need to turn a dog into cat.
there are ways to change things without taking away from them and sometimes things dont need to change. things that are broken need to change things like legion for example dont really need to change.
the reason many say they need a rework is cause they think its annoying to face. thats not a good reason for a change tho, im sure there are more then enough survivors that think dash powers are annoying or ranged powers. about aura reading and gen regression we see complaints all the time for exaple does that mean we need to change them completly?
When the complaints are consistent, yeah we might want to take a look at things.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029258#Comment_4029258
Agaisnt good survivors not so easily without strongest addons and some haste combo like play with your food + leg knife addon which can give you from 10% up to 25% haste and you can play stealth mainly and get fast downs but even then good survivors will spot that and pull great counterplay so he isnt very forgiving and agressive teams break him easily like trapper.
Obviously not easily, but still should be possible.
Wouldn't touch PWYF or Sheath, tbh. Used to be a big fan of the gen blocking one.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029270#Comment_4029270
there are probably ccountless ideas how to rework every character but if it happens it always sucks no matter how good the new idea is.
i play legion cause they are simple and straight forward, i dont have some dash or ranged power that is either hard to control or you need to hit it or you dont get downs. there is no big makro play with knowing when to tp where and i dont have to rely on survs not using theire eyes with a stealth power.
and the rework could be the most fun well designed killer that bhvr ever made but i would lose the killer i like and that would suck no matter how you see it. not only is the gameplay i like gone but i also have the coinflip if i like how the new version is played or i end up with a character i will never use again.
best case szenario then would be that bhvr would offer back some of the blood points and cells and shards you invested in a chracter if the totally rework it
It's a live service game, things will change.
How do you think people felt when they changed MoM?
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Try the token change first.
See what it does.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029227#Comment_4029227
reworks are always a bad idea tho.
ask freddy mains, we now have three types of freddy mains where two have lost the charater they liked. its almost impossible to rework a character for whatever reason and keep the spirit of that character alive.
if we take legion there spirit is fast running with total control, vaulting and wounding people. how are you keeping the spirit of the character while reworking them? for the hit and run playstyle they need some kind of slow down or it cant work, it doesnt have to be mend but it has to be something that survivors also cant just ignore.
Sometimes, Killers are just bad concepts. Legion has a cool premise, but he's just never going to be even remotely fun to play against. Same with SM, Twins or Knight.
I made rework ideas back in the day, but now I think they probably just should've gone back to the disguised Killer thing they had going on in the trailer.