OnryosTapeRentals
OnryosTapeRentals
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@BlueRose said:
Little off topic but anyone else think it's strange we haven't seen the post PTB dev update? Usually they released a dev update a week before the live update saying what they changing from the ptb to live. I'm wondering if there will be any changes from the ptb.
This has me a little anxious actually. The silence is making me think that they're going to go ahead with the Sadako changes.
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There's so many of these that I would gladly buy if they came to the store.
I really don't understand why they don't release them - it's essentially free money for BHVR. They already have the cosmetics made, all they need to do is make them available to purchase.
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Anybody saying Made For This is okay in its current state does not main a weaker killer and that's for sure. My favourite killer is Onryō and this perk absolutely massacres her, especially when combined with Resilience or Windows of Opportunity. She already has no chase power - add increased survivor movement speed into the mix and she's just done for. Chases take too long and the match is over by the time you've got a couple of hooks in.
Not to mention The Onryō has no exhaustion add-ons, which means you effectively need to waste a perk slot (e.g. Blood Echo, Fearmonger etc.) if you want to even out the playing field.
What makes it EVEN more painful is the fact that, by way of the nature of The Onryō's power, she can sometimes get a kill in right at the end of the game if survivors aren't careful about Condemnation racking up. But not anymore! Hope + Made For This pretty much guarantees the escape, even if you spent the whole match getting Condemned stacks on someone.
If there wasn't so much disparity between the top tier killers and low tier killers, then Made For This would be fine. But as it stands, it only serves to make the already weak killers feel even worse to play. Like what are Shape, Pig, Onryō - killers who were already struggling to keep up with chases before MFT - actually supposed to do against this?
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Agree and disagree.
Sometimes tactically bodyblocking a survivor for a brief amount of time is the best strategy available. Yeah, it doesn't feel great to be on the receiving end of but neither does getting bodyblocked while trying to hook a survivor. Either both sides need to be able to use their collision offensively or neither of them.
As for killers bodyblocking survivors in corners, stairs etc. for entire games that's a different story entirely. If someone has been standing still for that long they should absolutely lose collision to prevent that kind of griefing.
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The cooldown is misguided for many reasons and I sincerely hope they don't go through with it!
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
The idea needed some more time in the oven before it was done
Unfortunately this is true of a lot of things in this game.
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@Ariel_Starshine said:
I have an outfit exactly like the Feng one, or whoever that is, I hope so because I play her, Kate and the RE girls :)
That's crazy though, same outfit haha.
Also I don't remember getting to vote, did we even get the chance? In ffxiv they let us pick winners by voting, it's nice :)
We don't get to vote. The developers pick.
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In theory, they were a new and interesting gameplay mechanic that would enhance the strategy aspect of the game by giving players the opportunity to decide whether to open up new routes or strategically deny certain paths.
In practice however, they're nothing more than an annoyance. The vast majority of them are positioned at very strong loops where you stand no chance of catching up to a survivor if you don't break it. And the remaining ones are either in obsolete locations (like the very edge of the map on Dead Dawg Saloon) or open up strong loops for survivors when broken. So instead of interesting strategy, you're left with:
- Walls that you NEED to break.
- Walls that you should NEVER break.
- Walls that are kind of just there for some reason and never see any use.
They're not fun or interactive and I wish they would rework their implementation to be more engaging...
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I almost never bring my own items into the trial. The only time I do is when I have a challenge to deplete a certain item or get blinds or something.
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I'd say this is a widely agreed upon take.
Skull Merchant's only real power is holding a 3 gen and dragging out games long enough for survivors to eat through their resources. Trying to use her Drones in a chase will just causes survivors to run to the next loop and the additional movement speed provided from tracking survivors is nowhere near as strong as her potential to stall the game - so why would anyone bother to use her for any purpose other than that?
As boring as it is to face, I can't really bring myself to blame Skull Merchant players for doing it, just because there's no other way to use her successfully. Not to mention that Dead by Daylight's emblem system actually rewards that type of gameplay. I tested it out myself when she released and I've never double pipped so consistently. It's by far the easiest way to sail through the ranks I've found.
The entire concept of her power is flawed, and anyone with any real degree of experience in the game would've seen how it will be used straight away and scrapped it. If anything, The Skull Merchant (and The Knight for that matter) were a massive wake up call that BHVR needs to involve the community more in the design and testing process of their upcoming content. I firmly believe they should get a handful of actual players (or even Fog Whisperers), have them sign NDAs, and take feedback from them on killer power concepts, perk reworks and the like. That way BHVR doesn't waste a YEAR of time, resources, and money designing a killer just for everyone to hate it.
There's no way to salvage this rendition of The Skull Merchant's power. No number tweaks can resolve this - she needs an entire rework and I think most of us will be happy when she finally gets one and we don't have to play anymore 50 minute long games.
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He's a product of his time. Back in 2016 when he released, anything went. Unfortunately as the game has changed, he hasn't and is left with an outdated kit and messy add-ons.
He could do with an update to his basekit and an add-on pass.
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How do you all feel about the idea of Key add-ons getting buffed?
I don't think the add-ons need buffed, I just think Keys themselves need a complete rework. Give them entirely new functionality or something. They're an anachronism from old Dead by Daylight that don't see any meaningful use in the current game.
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I agree. Projection was hit with some very hefty nerfs, with buffs that really aren't good enough to make up for it. I'm not a fan of these changes at all.
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Same issue here!
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I think it's too early to say whether the changes will be a net buff or nerf. I'm reserving judgement until I can actually play it on the PTB (which I've heard is coming out tomorrow, but don't quote me on that).
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I believe the Alice in Wonderland collection also comes with unique lobby music. It's a nice touch!
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3471297#Comment_3471297
this is true!
PTB is there for us to test things with and for you to give us feedback on, we're going to be monitoring this very carefully to see how it plays out.
Thank you for confirming!
I will definitely be giving this PTB a go - lots of really interesting changes coming!
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Hmmm these changes are interesting but also bit worrying. Need to be tested tomorrow. I feel like in some ways it looks better but in others it is way worse and SWF will be even stronger againts her.
My thoughts too. Can't overstate how excited I am to see her being addressed, but I do have some hesitations from a couple of these changes.
I'm currently trying to reserve judgement until I can test it myself.
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@Ricardo170373 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3471251#Comment_3471251
This thing need to change before go to the live version. Its ridiculous
If I'm not mistaken all of these changes are just preliminary and will be tested on an upcoming Public Test Build before being pushed to live.
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Really thrilled to see her getting some changes! The only thing I'm concerned about is the double cooldown on Projection.
I'm going to wait to see how she plays before giving any specific feedback though.
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@FridayNightPizza said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470206#Comment_3470206
Completely off topic but I adore your username.
Haha thank you!
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I'm an Onryō main and Made For This just feels terrible to go against. Sadako has no chase power, lacklustre slowdown, and unreliable map traversal due to huge cooldowns so she really can't afford to be spending additional time in chases.
To me, this is just the whole Dead Hard situation again: a perk that grants free additional distance, prolonging chases with no reliable way to counter it as an M1 killer. (And then for some reason it also has a powerful Endurance effect tacked on).
Yeah you could use exhaustion add-ons and perks, but then you're wasting slots on a killer that really needs to run something better (not to mention a lot of the weaker killers don't have exhaustion add-ons).
The most frustrating thing about this perk is it has no tangible effect on the strongest killers like Nurse and Blight, because they can catch up so easily. But the rest of the roster is - as usual - left to tag behind.
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Just got one on my Bloodweb so I can confirm they definitely aren't disabled or anything:
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In my past 40 survivor games, I've seen him twice.
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I think Nemesis' Tentacle Strike is in a good spot overall, but it definitely needs its visuals adjusted to accurately match its function.
The lingering hitbox and ability to drag is not made clear in his power description, nor in the visual feedback of his Strike. It's especially confusing (and annoying) for new players.
IMO, they should update his animation to accurately reflect how his Tenatcle Strike works. Perhaps if Nemesis drags it, have him flick his tentacle to the side to clearly show that that's what happened.
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Agreed. I think it would be neat if there was just a little "randomise" button in the perks/items/add-ons menu etc.
Maybe it could give some extra Bloodpoints or something too to encourage more people to run different builds.
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If a player is breaking the rules make sure to report them in game using the megaphone icon on the post-game screen, and then follow up with video evidence at support.deadbydaylight.com. Anonymous users can still be reported - the developers know who they are even when other players don't. You'll need your Cloud ID so they can find your report, which you can access in the Settings menu under the General tab.
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@GensByDaylight said:
It says on nightlight his pick rate is 8%
People who scream that they see him 3 times in a row are just making drama.
Even seing him twice would be rare.
The chance of seeing him twice, 8% and 8% is 0.64%.
So please stop making drama because you lose to him and want BHVR to change it. The only "unfair" thing is his ability to tunnel. Maybe just making infection reset after being unhooked would work.
P.S.
Huntresses pickrate goes over 8% very commonly. So how come there aren't posts complaining about her?
It says on nightlight his pick rate is 8%
Nightlight stats are unofficial and crowdsourced. Consequently, they're skewed by sampling bias and inaccurate reporting of data (e.g. things not being accurately recognised by Nightlight or being identified incorrectly by users).
People who scream that they see him 3 times in a row are just making drama.
Or they just have a different experience with matchmaking than you do. Which is highly likely considering matchmaking varies significantly with region, time of day, current Rifts etc.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3467760#Comment_3467760
Reverting Hillbilly’s changes would go a long way in bringing more fun Killers back. A few more base kit adjustments to make him smoother to play and bam.
I can't even express how much I miss versing Hilbilly.
Back in the day, he was one of the only three killers who actually felt fun and threatening to face. Now he's just... missing almost entirely from matches.
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then you don't look like a rat, hiding in lockers.
This made me laugh, but I agree.
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Agreed! I'm currently working on getting The Onryō to P100, and I would love it if it came with some sort of cosmetic reward, or charm, or something.
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I would've put:
- Onryō buffed (Trapper and Myers probably need it more but I'm biased because she's my main)
- Blight (add-ons) nerfed
- Skull Merchant reworked
but I didn't get the question in my survey for whatever reason 🤷
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I filled in the survey about an hour ago and didn't get this question at all! Is it randomised which questions you get? If so that's a little disappointing because I would've loved to answer this question...
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I believe they are a "use at your own risk" type of situation, in the same way that custom character portraits and perk icons are.
To elaborate, I don't think the developers go out of their way to ban for this but if the game's anti-cheat detects you're using them and bans you automatically, they won't help you get unbanned.
Source: https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/4523281307940512113/ (bear in mind this is from 2 years ago, so their stance might've changed).
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They are time limited, as per the banner in the in-game store:
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@appleas said:
Good recommended changes. It is kinda of sad that Sadako using her power via tv interaction hurts her more than Survivors.
Surprisingly, , Rickety Pinwheel and Sea soaked Cloth along with a manifested walking Sadako that doesn’t TP works occasionally in some matches.
Survivors expect the lullaby or the manifestation before getting hit, giving them ample time to react, but the oblivious effect means that they will not be able to see a manifested Sadako walking into them at a gen especially with LOS blockers, catching them off guard.
Rickety Pinwheel and Sea-soaked Cloth is a build I've played around with quite a lot. I've found it to be pretty hit or miss though. Either I get a few grabs early on which gets me decent pressure, or the survivors are just too observant to get any value.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460426#Comment_3460426
Yes the add-ons enhance particular parts of his kit, which means players running them will focus on predominantly using the enhanced parts of his kit to get the best value from their add-ons.
The killer is the same regardless of what add-on you equip 99% of the time. As I said, add-on are just spice for killer.
It would be illogical for someone running The Beast add-on
you named one add-on that wraith has that changes his gameplay though I am not entirely sure why anyone would equip it.
These add-ons encourage slugging, a strategy which the developers have acknowledged themselves is unfun
Unfun is subjective opinion.
Do you not play survivor? If so, why would you be outraged if (according to you) it's fine and fun.
m1 killer. easy killer to loop. non-threaten mechanic for good players.
The vast majority of her add-ons are horrendous
functionally, the add-on are ok. they are plagued by usual dbd safe numbers that is common for killers in general. just to give an example. The remote control add-on shows you aura's whenever a survivor carries a tape after projection. aura reading is really good. nothing wrong with the add-on functionality. safe aspect of this add-on is that you have to be within 16 meters to see aura. It is like why is there a range limit for seeing aura? why is it not just global? shouldn't iri add-on be like... useful? Just dbd things I guess. Like I said, her main mechanic which is condemn mechanic to instant kill mori survivors with 0 hook-states is poorly balanced that ring drawing and iri-tape bottleneck her add-on selection. Like you physically cannot use her power to produce results without at least one of these add-on's. that is why you see those add-on a lot as survivor.
So you acknowledge that The Onryō's basekit has bad values, and her add-ons are also mostly bad with little incentive to use them, so why on earth would you not want them buffed/reworked?
Because they don't need rework. they functionally improve her kit but the base numbers are poorly balanced. there is a lot of obvious restrictions in her add-on to ensure in her add-on to limit their effectiveness. I agree they need buffs but her base-kit has bigger problems then add-on's. As you have stated, you do not enjoy going against her Mori nor do you enjoy slugging which is part of her play-style. As a result, there has been no announced plan changes to change her as survivor dislike going against her gameplay.
Of course the character will not be deleted but you can keep the character super weak. That is kinda like being deleted? Right? Your in the game but your not very popular in the game. Kinda like Twins. Deleted without being deleted. Hard to explain.
I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I appreciate you taking the time to explain your viewpoints further, and for your contributions to the discussions! I understand your point better now, but I still err on the side of the add-ons needing a rework. See you in the fog!
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
I don't like the idea of disabling TVs taking 90 seconds. 70, sure. But not 90, because keep in mind, when disabling and then inserting a tape into a TV, you're not disabling one TV. You are potentially disabling two, as inserting a Tape into a live TV counts as disabling it. That, to me, is a bit excessive.
Thanks for the feedback! Perhaps a good revision for this would be to keep the Turn-off cooldown at 90 seconds but change the Tape-play cooldown to 60 seconds. That way, only the TV(s) you intentionally turned off (and not the random one the game takes you to to insert a tape) would have the longer cooldown.
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@DaveyTheDuck said:
i play a lot of sadako too. personally I’d like to see maybe improvements to her periodic invisibility as using that around loops to outsmart survivors can be very fun. I like the global lullaby idea but for me personally i just think it should be 8 meters. Maybe the global lullaby could be an addon. There’s a lot of people who say that she should be able to walk through pallets and vaults when demanifested and although I don’t entirely agree I do really want to see that in action. I also just wish she could manifest faster, I love the cool sound it makes and stuff but from a gameplay standpoint it takes a bit too long and can get in the way when trying to mindgame with your flickers. I really like all the change suggestions in this. especially the tv spawns. good job.
I also think that would be a really great option for improving her. She has some decent potential for mindgames using her periodic invisibility, but like you said Manifestation takes just slightly too long for it to be worthwhile doing at a lot of loops. Perhaps making the Reiko's Watch add-on basekit would be a good buff to improve her chase potential, or a slight number buff to Manifestation time?
As for walking through pallets, vaults etc. while demanifested, I agree with you. I think it would be really fun to see in action - maybe on like a PTB, but I'm not certain it's the right way to take her power.
Thank you for your comment! :)
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460127#Comment_3460127
Every killer has 1 play-style. those are not 5 play-styles for wraith. what is different is how you modify a single play-style with add-on's. The add-on suppose add some spice to the killer gameplay. most of the modification to add-on is some slight statistic improvement to the killer power up to the killer preference. Like windstorm add-on for wraith slightly improve his movement speed, swift hunt slightly improves his uncloak speed. sometimes add-on adds a minor effect to the power like blind warrior add-on that add mangled. Regardless of what you add to the killer for spice, the killer identity often remains the same excluding some bizarre add-on's such as Scratch Mirror Myer's and Waterlogged shoe hag.
Onryo's iri tape and ring drawing bottleneck her add-on selection because her base-kit mori is inadequate condemn build-up. this is little bit like Wraith where Wraith players would often say that windstorm was a bottleneck add-on because his cloaking felt lackluster. that is why they added purple windstorm to his base-kit and suddenly there outrage that he was suddenly over tuned as quoted by the developer in a particular update. I do not see them adding ring drawing or iri tape to Onryo's base-kit because there is little interest in adding a mori mechanic to the killer. Survivor would be outraged by the Mori.
Just like other killers Onryo has bunch of add-on that slightly modify small parts of her kit. you list a lot of them in your original post. Remote control adds aura reading to her kit. I believe purple add-on is distorated photo? I think that add-on is suppose to be anti-stealth, so more anti-stealth detection. purple telephone add-on gives hindered so it improves her chase. Not to go through entire add-on list but all of those add-on some slight improvement to her kit but since her kit has bad base-values on almost everything. there is little incentive to use any of them.
Every killer has 1 play-style
This is just objectively not true.
those are not 5 play-styles for wraith
Yes the add-ons enhance particular parts of his kit, which means players running them will focus on predominantly using the enhanced parts of his kit to get the best value from their add-ons. It would be illogical for someone running The Beast add-on to play him as a stealth killer, whereas Coxcombed Clapper greatly enhances his stealth ability so will see a lot of use for stealthy play. These are different ways to play him, i.e. different playstyles.
I do not see them adding ring drawing or iri tape to Onryo's base-kit because there is little interest in adding a mori mechanic to the killer
You don't see them adding this because it's one of the worst ideas imaginable, nothing to do with a disinterst in a mori mechanic. These add-ons encourage slugging, a strategy which the developers have acknowledged themselves is unfun. They've even trialed a number of strategies to directly counter it.
Survivor would be outraged by the Mori.
Do you not play survivor? If so, why would you be outraged if (according to you) it's fine and fun. And if not, then I don't really think it's fair for you to speak on the behalf of survivors.
but all of those add-on some slight improvement to her kit
To call them a slight improvement is to massively overstate their usefulness. The vast majority of her add-ons are horrendous, and provide considerably less value than equivalent-rarity add-ons for most of the other roster. Why have a killer with only two add-ons that are actually decent, when you could distribute their strength and have 20 add-ons that are fun and useful?
since her kit has bad base-values on almost everything. there is little incentive to use any of them.
You're somehow staring the point in the face but still missing it. So you acknowledge that The Onryō's basekit has bad values, and her add-ons are also mostly bad with little incentive to use them, so why on earth would you not want them buffed/reworked?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460103#Comment_3460103
That is exactly why The Onryō needs a rework... A killer should have more than one viable playstyle.
There is another play-style available. It is called hooking survivors. Ignoring condemn mechanic entirely. It is no better then playing an m1 killer with no power but it does work for every killer.
I'm saying they cannot buff any of her kit, otherwise it will make her slugging playstyle specifically too strong. If they tone down her slugging playstyle, they're then free to buff the rest of her kit, meaning it won't be the "only thing" that is effective anymore.
The other aspects of her kit are meant to go on top of the already existing playstyle of condemn. As we going by your wording. Buffing the rest of her kit aspects would be too strong. that is why there has been no revisions for her. she is already in the perfect spot that is most acceptable by the community without causing complaints.
Ignoring condemn mechanic entirely
Ignoring a killer's power entirely doesn't really constitute a playstyle for them but I'll humour you.
The other aspects of her kit are meant to go on top of the already existing playstyle of condemn.
So The Onryō has a grand total of... two ways to play her? One of which involves completely ignoring her power? Colour me unimpressed. Compare this to a character like Wraith, who has a multide of viable strategies:
- You can lean into his stealth with add-ons like Coxcombed Clapper, allowing you to play as a hit and run killer.
- You can make him very powerful in a chase using Shadow Dance paired with The Serpent add-ons, allowing for a more agressive playstyle.
- You can use Windstorm and a generator defence build to boost his map pressure to exceptional levels.
- Or you can use some of his more unique add-ons like The Ghost for interesting mindgames.
That stacks up to 5 ways to play him at least (counting your playstyle of ignoring a killer's power completely). Killers should not be shoehorned into a specific style of play, because it's the only way to get results. There should be more opportunity for variety and creativity in builds.
As we going by your wording. Buffing the rest of her kit aspects would be too strong.
I've already explained what I meant by this. The more you reiterate this, the more it looks like you're intentionally misinterpreting what I'm saying.
she is already in the perfect spot that is most acceptable by the community without causing complaintsshe is already in the perfect spot that is most acceptable by the community without causing complaints
We must run in different circles of the DbD community because most of the people I've spoken to about The Onryō echo the same sentiments: she's relatively weak and has problematic add-ons.
If you don't like my suggestions that's fine! I just can't say I understand the reasonings behind your opinion though. Sorry.
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@tuttoinunavolta said:
I'm a Sadako main myself and I love every single suggestion on here. This is an incredibly well-thought out post and I hope the devs see this and take these suggestions into consideration, since they address every problem I and many of her mains have with her. Thank you for bringing up TV placements - it's a big problem that nobody seems to acknowledge - and for suggesting to increase the lullaby's range instead of removing it; a lot of people underrate its mindgame possibilities, so changing the lullaby after the visual terror radius addition instead of completely removing it is definitely the best choice. I always thought she needed basekit Brutal Strenght when demanifested, but your "breaking pallets when manifesting" proposal is much better, and probably even more balanced since it requires good timing.
The only thing I disagree with is the Ring Drawing change (I absolutely agree that it shouldn't apply Condemned stacks to slugged survivors though). I think so because when taking into consideration your basekit Condemn buff (Condemned is applied when teleporting + when hitting shortly after a teleport), which is absolutely needed, having Ring Drawing work on unhooks might become a bit too oppressive, since as of now you can hook next to a TV and teleport right after the unhook, giving a Condemned stack to both of them. If your basekit changes were to go through, then I think Ring Drawing would be better left as it is with the exception of slug pickups. Without taking your basekit change suggestions into consideration, then I'd agree with giving that buff to Ring Drawing (buffed basekit is the better outcome though).
You should definitely try to get this moved to Feedback and Suggestions
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459927#Comment_3459927
The problem is that Sadako as a killer can be super strong and oppressive only when having a couple of the same add-on combos equipped. Applying Condemned without Ring Drawing is extremely hard (technically possible, but it's so hard and time consuming it's basically never worth it, and obviously its progress could be deleted at any given time by the survivor) and her basekit time cooldowns makes it so that Condemned is straight up ignored the majority of the time, when that add-on is not used. OP's proposed changes wouldn't make her a stronger killer to face than the Sadakos you currently see; it would just mean they don't have to have an Iridescent and a Rare add-on equipped all the time in order to actually use her powers.
Thank you! I really appreciate you taking the time to read through all this!
I agree that TV placements is something that's really under-discussed. I don't think I've ever seen someone mention it before so I felt like I should throw my two cents out here. Also agree about your assessment of the Ring Drawing add-on.
Not sure how to go about getting this moved to feedback and suggestions, I guess we'll have to wait until a mod sees it and moves it to the appropriate place?
EDIT: Just noticed that you mentioned breaking pallets while Manifesting. While that isn't one of my listed suggestions, it is something I've considered a lot too. The ability for The Onryō to walk through pallets, vaults, and breakable walls has floated around in discussions before as well, but I'm not sure how I'd balance it so I chose to omit it. I have to admit it would be fun to play with though! I'm also currently reading through a rework suggestion posted by @TechnoTheFirst, which features that idea and is definitely worth checking out. Great to see so much constructive discussion about my favourite killer!
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460072#Comment_3460072
Even when survivors do pick up Tapes, their corresponding TVs are often not far away.
I am not entirely sure what type of slowdown your expecting from this mechanic. You take like few second to pull out a tape out of TV and you walk to the TV. You even state in your original post that the mechanic takes little time to do. The mechanic is not slowdown. It is survival.
Virtually every time I run Iridescent Videotape and Ring Drawing, someone DCs for that exact reason - and I empathise with them.
I get disconnects without slugging with other killers. Sometimes even on first downs. The survivor community is entitled. Perhaps your seeing the add-on because its only thing that is effective. People probably read my comment long ago. They tried it and saw effectiveness of the killer. I have played against it and I do not see any issues. Fun itself is subjective as well. Losing in general is not fun for most players. Slugging is form of progressive over-time losing. A principal in multiplayer games is that when one player has fun winning. The other player has less fun from losing.
They can't buff any other aspect of her kit so long as this playstyle stands, or otherwise it'd be way too strong.
Oh, so the killer is strong. Then it must not need any changes. right? Your implying that the killer is already at perfect spot because any further improvement is as you say too strong.
I am not entirely sure what type of slowdown your expecting from this mechanic.
The slowdown that comes with forcing survivors to stop repairing a generator, retrieve a VHS Tape, run to a separate location on the map, insert the tape, and then run back to their generator. The reason this is currently ineffective at slowdown is because survivors never actually need to do it. In a game against the average Onryō, you rarely get enough Condemned stacks to warrant survivors needing to remove some. If Condemned becomes easier to apply (as per my suggestions), survivors will need to be more mindful of their status and transport Tapes when it gets too high - thus slowing the game down. An individual Tape Transport takes little time to do, but multiple survivors doing it multiple times per game adds up!
Perhaps your seeing the add-on because its only thing that is effective.
That is exactly why The Onryō needs a rework... A killer should have more than one viable playstyle. As it stands, this is the only way to consistenly guarantee Condemned kills, and requires a dedicated build and a specific playstyle of slugging. That's bad game design.
Your implying that the killer is already at perfect spot because any further improvement is as you say too strong.
Not what I implied at all. I'm saying they cannot buff any of her kit, otherwise it will make her slugging playstyle specifically too strong. If they tone down her slugging playstyle, they're then free to buff the rest of her kit, meaning it won't be the "only thing" that is effective anymore.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459934#Comment_3459934
Onepumpwilly plays iridescent tape+bloody finger nails. I remember someone posting a video on forums at one point and I commented on the forum post at one point about slugging ring drawing Sadako. at the time of the post, I was just trying to learn Sadako because everyone kept saying she sucked. she had no redeeming qualities and was the worst killer in the game. I don't understand why the add-on suddenly need a change? Your proposal of the add-on add 2 total condemn stacks for hooking. what is the point of the add-on at that point? you will kill survivors faster by hooking then you will by applying condemn.
that's one of major issues with condemn in general for Sadako. Killer powers are suppose to be boon to the killer. An advantage but sadako's condemn mechanic is not a boon. it is more like alternative way of winning that strangely enough can be worse then just normal hooking because of how slow condemn build up is.
you can apply that logic to all her powers. they give you mobility, but really cannot use it to any good degree with TV and telegraphed sounds when emerging out of a TV for ambush disregarding the long cooldown itself. you get strange invisible flickering at loops to try to mix-up the survivor but it is not really there because invisible is duration is pretty short along with her movement speed reduction when manifesting. you get stealth but it is not really stealth because of lullaby. Overall there does not seem to be much interest in improving her. only interest in detracting what little unique gameplay exists for her.
"I don't understand why the add-on suddenly need a change?"
In it's current state, Ring Drawing encourages slugging survivors and completely ignoring hooks. Slugging is not fun, hurts solo queue disproportionately more than SWF, results in lower point gain for the survivors and the killer (since you don't get hooking/unhooks), and should therefore be reserved for occasionally gaining pressure - not slugging every survivor you meet for the entirety of the match. Promoting a playstyle in which you completely ignore the core gameplay mechanics is not healthy.
I play a lot of survivor too, and getting found early, downed, and left to slowly bleed out is not fun. And then to add insult to injury, as soon as you get picked up, you get hit and go down again because your solo queue teammates don't take protection hits. And then it's back to four minutes of nothing. Virtually every time I run Iridescent Videotape and Ring Drawing, someone DCs for that exact reason - and I empathise with them.
It's a widely held opinion in the community that slugging Sadako needs toned down or reworked. Many, myself included, would argue that this specific playstyle is what's holding her back from being in a better spot. They can't buff any other aspect of her kit so long as this playstyle stands, or otherwise it'd be way too strong. So she's stuck with this being one of her few viable options.
"what is the point of the add-on at that point"
The problem is you're thinking of Condemned only in terms of its lethality, and not for its potential as a slowdown mechanic. The reworked Ring Drawing would cause survivors to gain stacks when unhooking, which combined with a few good Projections would quickly cause them to rack up Condemnation. Survivors would then have to transport Tapes, providing you with built-in slowdown that'd help a killer without a chase power keep up in the game. Not to mention, that with the basekit changes I suggested, it would be easier to inflict Condemned through normal gameplay. You'd no longer have to artificially force it through add-ons, slugging, chasing backwards etc., which feels very cheap to be on the receiving end of.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Every Onryo I go against is a beast she definitely is already in a good spot condemned should be a bit more effective but already a super strong killer IMO
But what builds are you finding them running? And how often do you encounter them? I rarely see Onryōs, and when I do they're almost always running the same few add-ons and builds. It's usually either:
- Iridescent Videotape + Ring Drawing
- Tape Editing Deck + Ring Drawing
- Reiko's Watch + a full build of slowdown perks
The proposed changes certainly aren't perfect, but aim to make The Onryō a more versatile killer, with a less predictable kit. Knowing what you're up against as soon as you load in takes the fun out of the game IMO.
You're right that she can be very powerful. I don't mean to make her overbearing, in fact I think these changes would provide more avenues for interactive counterplay than there currently exists. As it stands, the most effective way to beat Onryō is to do nothing - never touch TVs and never transport Tapes. I think that's poor design personally, but I respect your opinion.
(Edited to include the rest of my comment; I accidentally sent it without writing everything).